Mini 1655: Delicious Mafia (Game Over, Perfect Scum Win!)

[SilverWolf]

Hi everyone

VOTE: elusive

Your questions better be good.

[SilverWolf]

Dude in the blue shirt needs to lighten up a bit, LOL.

[SilverWolf]

Dude in the blue shirt needs to lighten up a bit, LOL.

If he were any paler he'd be translucent.

VOTE: Ozgin

He's already lurking.

Where do we see users lurking?

They haven't posted yet most likely. It's a joke vote, RVS.

[SilverWolf]

is that... bill o'reilly and donald trump

OMG, I think it is. I didn't even see that the first time. No wonder he was so crabby.

[SilverWolf]

is that... bill o'reilly and donald trump

OMG, I think it is. I didn't even see that the first time. No wonder he was so crabby.

it would explain why both of them aren't a fan of the "mexican" wave.... bad joke

LOL, not bad at all.

[SilverWolf]

Thanks Aero!!

[SilverWolf]

Hi Odd and others I've played with.

Welcome to the game. I'm still trying to figure out which one of you is scum.

Get to posting, lurkers. The game's been going for almost 2 hours now and we only have....................

@Aero

Where's the countdown timer?

LOL @ choof

[SilverWolf]

Ha Ha Ha,

I think I see it now Aero!!

[SilverWolf]

Nah, you don't have to do that for me Aero.

[SilverWolf]

actually i have a question(s) because i want to inject some shenanigans into the game as early as possible since i won't be here for the next day or so

why is reading a player's completed games such a prominent tactic on this site, and how do you defeat confirmation bias when it inevitably arises due to reading someone's meta, especially if you didn't play with that person in the games you're reading

i'm asking because on the other sites i play mafia on, we almost never openly talk about re-reading games. would it have something to do with the site being dedicated to the game, so it draws a significant number of unique players?

you can read this a purely theory, a newb-town/scum tactic, or a mix of both, but I would like at least one answer to this
the idea is kinda foreign to me; that's why I posted about flashwagons because that concept was totally foreign when I experienced it

Some people like meta, some hate it. I only use it as one tool and not the only one. Reason being, people can and do manipulate their meta. I'd rather use meta off games I've actually played with the person rather than reading a game they played I wasn't in. It's also too time consuming to meta so I only do it if I think it will be helpful.

Gotta go for awhile. RL calls.

[SilverWolf]

Well played, Choof. Well played.

Fishing for support in desperation.

Which is it? hyperreactive or post-ironic?

Could it be you are searching too hard to find something that isn't there?

[SilverWolf]

Here are elusive's patented RQS questions. Only to be answered by town and those who love themselves at least a little bit.

1. Are you town or are you scum or are you a rainbow? Why?

Town but I love rainbows because they are beautiful to look at.

2. In a spoiler link to your favorite song ever. This song represents your soul. No pressure.

Holy crap, that's a lot of pressure since I like so many songs and so many types of songs.

3. What are your three favorite letters of the alphabet and why?

S-My user ID starts with S, W-wolves start with W, L-because love starts with L

5. Choose one player in the game and describe their scum or town meta, this can be yourself.

House-I can't read him for shit. True story.

<3

My answers are in bold.

OK, Here's a beautiful song for number 2:

[SilverWolf]

elusive does RQS in all her games, it's a way for me to judge her alignment

[SilverWolf]

okay is elusive town or scum

Wait a minute and I'll tell you:

1) elusive: What do you hope to get out these questions?

2) What are your answers to these questions?

3) What does this tell you about everyone's alignment?

[SilverWolf]

Can I wait until more people answer them, SW?

Yes

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2015-04-01 15:00:32).

[SilverWolf]

LOL-I got the counter in my post. Thank goodness cuz I was worried we weren't going to catch scum in time.

[SilverWolf]

Aero's gonna love you guys, LOL.

[SilverWolf]

Well I see choof will be clogging up this game with tons and tons of posts…yay…

What does this tell you about choof's alignment?

Are we still in Random stages of the game? Yuck

Why the need to answer the questions then and prolong it if you don't like it?

Though quite honestly, at the rate this game in going, I very much doubt if in 48 hours the gamestate will be any different than it is right now.

So, why not do anything to change this instead of just complaining about it?

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: oddmusic

Don't like the negative attitude which fosters apathy and stagnating of the gamestate.

RVS is over

[SilverWolf]

choof doesn't annoy me (yet-if he does this it all game it will), he's got a carefree feeling to his posts so far but I think he plays that way as both alignments and therefore will not be easy to read, not seeing anything scummy though and it seems an odd approach for scum to take, most of what he's doing is not alignment indicative and therefore I will not get a read on him until he starts scumhunting some

@Aero

Pizza-any kind

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: oddmusic

Don't like the negative attitude which fosters apathy and stagnating of the gamestate.

RVS is over

This smells like town Wolfie.

How so? Explain.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: oddmusic

Don't like the negative attitude which fosters apathy and stagnating of the gamestate.

RVS is over

This smells like town Wolfie.

How so? Explain.

Nah. I'm sure you know why you're town.

No, Not why I'm town. How you got that read so quickly.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: oddmusic

Don't like the negative attitude which fosters apathy and stagnating of the gamestate.

RVS is over

This smells like town Wolfie.

How so? Explain.

Nah. I'm sure you know why you're town.

No, Not why I'm town. How you got that read so quickly.

You're always town unless I sense a conniving spirit from you. You know that. So far, I haven't.

I didn't call you town, I said that post smells town.

Your paranoia is helpful, though.

OK, You are still always scum to me until proven otherwise. But you know that's how I have to read you.

[SilverWolf]

LOL-If you are scummy you are good to go, if you are townie, I'll kick your ass.

[SilverWolf]

LOL-If you are scummy you are good to go, if you are townie, I'll kick your ass.

I'm always scummy.

Stop being so friendly. You are making me paranoid.

[SilverWolf]

Getting out of RVS is pro-town. It's pretty easy for scum to hide and mess around in RVS. Wanting to keep us in RVS is scummy.

[SilverWolf]

choof-Why are you self voting?

[SilverWolf]

However you feel like answering choof, just make it good.

[SilverWolf]

Listen choof-I don't think that you are scum but I see no reason why you are doing anything regarding claiming or self voting. That is profoundly anti-town. You are helping scum with your behavior.

Please just get it together and scum hunt.

I'm not going to try to lynch you right now.

Do you have any reads?

[SilverWolf]

Listen choof-I don't think that you are scum but I see no reason why you are doing anything regarding claiming or self voting. That is profoundly anti-town.

I'm not going to touch on softclaiming and I'd rather that people didn't touch on it either; any and all questions towards me about me softclaiming will be ignored.

but why is self-voting "profoundly anti-town?" by now it should be obvious why I'm doing it.

Because it's a huge distraction to the game and is confusing to people-oddmusic is a good example, it interferes with scumhunting.

I'm not going to try to lynch you right now.

Why not?

Because I don't think you are scum.

Do you have any reads?

oddmusic is green, there's very little doubt about this. his pedit in 175 shows a bit of trepidation, he didn't want to get involved and his unvote in 192 feels a lot like an antsy townie.

I have a neutral read on psyche

Why can't that be newbie scum being nervous?

you didn't respond to 183, I don't even think you read it because you started this post off with "I see no reasons"
I just gave you 3 reasons
respond to those how you will and I'll move my vote. maybe.

You already unvoted so not sure why you even had to say this last part and yes I read it and responded to it in the post of mine you quoted. I don't agree with it or your reasons for doing so. But let me break it down for you. My answers to your below quote are in bold.

However you feel like answering choof, just make it good.

read my meta, nothing I do is good

1 - I asked psyche if I would get town or scum points if I followed his wagon, I intended to hold myself to following him, as seen with the subsequent vote on bookitty. He swapped his vote to me, so I followed suit.

I see no reason for this regardless of what you said but o.k.

2 - A vt's most powerful tool is their vote. People can be urged to vote one way or another, but it's ultimately that person's decision.

Real or not, this is hinting at a role and is anti-town and you need to stop.

3 - Scum know that I'm green. A self-vote would make it that much easier to get a green (and/or blue) lynched. In the event that I do get lynched, it might be worth looking at the tail end of my lynch to help with the scum hunt.

This is good if you actually think you are getting lynched. I seriously doubt you would be off the wagon forming on you but yes, this is correct regarding scum jumping on a wagon so o.k.

I have no power-role (or maybe I do, a gentleman never tells), therefore I'm expendable. Dying doesn't bar me from taking a win with town.

Stop with this. While townies shouldn't be as worried about dying as PR's, even suggesting this is more helpful to scum than town even if you are WIFOMing it.

[SilverWolf]

choof-I don't think what you are doing is easily pulled off by scum without looking fake is why I don't think you are scum

Meh-odd isn't super green but could be newbtown, still seems nervous though but I can keep an eye on him, I like his reaction to you as genuinely confused and not as scum looking to take advantage

emotions happen as both alignments and it isn't alignment indicative but I do agree that if it looks forced, it's scummy because real emotions are hard to fake, I don't see you self-voting as getting those kinds of emotions and I don't agree with self voting because it denies info. to town and messes with VCA and we can't analyze that vote on your wagon whether or not it results in a lynch

That said, TN is a gut scumread right now due to his comments about this which seem more scum motivated than town.

VOTE: TN5421

[SilverWolf]

*sigh*

[SilverWolf]

*sigh*

again

[SilverWolf]

I don't think either Riblet or choof is scum.

*sigh* a third time

Scum can hide while these tvt's go on

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: House

He claimed scum.

[SilverWolf]

Nice OMGUS but I happen to now as town, you vote people who claim scum.

I can see you WIFOMing for this game. You defensively voting me after calling me town earlier seals my vote.

I'm good with it.

[SilverWolf]

*now=know

[SilverWolf]

Of course I am scum.
... in my soul.
No luck on this forums with rolling scum yet.

And you?

im obv scum cant you tell?

VOTE: dodgy56

I see scum claim, I vote scum claim.

Of course I am scum.
... in my soul.
No luck on this forums with rolling scum yet.

And you?

im obv scum cant you tell?

VOTE: dodgy56

I see scum claim, I vote scum claim.

fair enough, but how did you choose between the 2 scum claims?

I've made a similar claim as Netherspite as town.

I've never straight up scum claimed as town. Anyone who does deserves to be believed.

These quotes from House are from this game where he was town: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2&start=25

[SilverWolf]

His voting me and running away is not his town meta. As town, he'd be up in my face trying to piss me off.

I feel better and better about my vote.

[SilverWolf]

@Bookitty-I have quite a few games here and offsite with House. Not extensive but probably more than anyone else playing. Yes, dodgy was scum.

[SilverWolf]

2. It's scummy because the point of a vote is to pressure somebody you think is scum or to lynch somebody who you think is scum. People aren't supposed to vote people they think or know is town. You self voted and that means you aren't town.

Putting this in my ISO. Awesome point. I don't think choof is scum or you are but this is a great point to explaining to others why you don't self-vote and when this game is over, I want to use it in my next newbie I IC if applicable.

[SilverWolf]

2. It's scummy because the point of a vote is to pressure somebody you think is scum or to lynch somebody who you think is scum. People aren't supposed to vote people they think or know is town. You self voted and that means you aren't town.

Putting this in my ISO. Awesome point. I don't think choof is scum or you are but this is a great point to explaining to others why you don't self-vote and when this game is over, I want to use it in my next newbie I IC if applicable.

uh.. ???

Not because I believe he's right but because I think it's a great way to explain why town shouldn't vote for themselves along with the other reasons like denying town info.

Anyway, this is the last post I talk game theory as it gets us nowhere.

Moving on.

[SilverWolf]

I understand choof and I agree we need to interact with each other.

You know one who won't interact with me and isn't playing to his town meta. House.

pedit-Stop it!!

[SilverWolf]

House is pinging scum to me because:

-Too friendly, some friendliness with us towards each other is normal and expected but as town he'd be trying to interact with me, reaction test me, something to figure me out.

-Votes scum claims as town and has said he has never claimed scum as town, passing it off as a joke under these conditions is suspicious

-OMGUS, defensively votes me and doesn't confront me over my vote for him

[SilverWolf]

House is pinging scum to me because:

-Too friendly, some friendliness with us towards each other is normal and expected but as town he'd be trying to interact with me, reaction test me, something to figure me out.

-Votes scum claims as town and has said he has never claimed scum as town, passing it off as a joke under these conditions is suspicious

-OMGUS, defensively votes me and doesn't confront me over my vote for him

I confronted you and you wrote it off as OMGUS when the fact is that you're misrepping my play.

You voted for me. You are not confronting me or interacting with me. I didn't misrep anything and you aren't even really defending yourself.

[SilverWolf]

I understand choof and I agree we need to interact with each other.

You know one who won't interact with me and isn't playing to his town meta. House.

pedit-Stop it!!

I've replied to you several times and you've been ignoring me and claiming I'm not interacting with you.

Anybody that doesn't see how scummy that shit is, is just fucking blind.

I'm not ignoring you. Instead of defending/explaining yourself, you are turning it around on me for pointing out you aren't playing to your town meta.

pedit: I'm not lying at all. I just think you are scum. Such is life.

[SilverWolf]

Somebody put me at L-1, would ya?

Why are you giving up so quickly?

This isn't like you not to fight.

[SilverWolf]

Somebody put me at L-1, would ya?

Why are you giving up so quickly?

This isn't like you not to fight.

I have my reasons.

You're dying today.

You're threatening me?

[SilverWolf]

Somebody put me at L-1, would ya?

Why are you giving up so quickly?

This isn't like you not to fight.

I have my reasons.

You're dying today.

You're threatening me?

I'll answer that after I'm put at L-1.

So you are threatening me for scumhunting you.

Got it.

I see exactly what you are saying.

You better ask for a claim first before you kill me.

[SilverWolf]

Somebody put me at L-1, would ya?

Why are you giving up so quickly?

This isn't like you not to fight.

I have my reasons.

You're dying today.

You're threatening me?

I'll answer that after I'm put at L-1.

So you are threatening me for scumhunting you.

Got it.

I see exactly what you are saying.

You better ask for a claim first before you kill me.

If you plan to claim, you better do it before I'm hammered, because we're going to the graveyard together.

There's no way that town Wolfie sells my lynch the way you did, so you're going to get exactly what you want.

Too bad for your buddies, because you'll be following me. You picked the wrong fucking game to make me your scapegoat.

Go for it and hurt town in the process. I sold your lynch exactly the way I sell any lynch when I think I have scum. You are taking it personally and threatening me in the process.

Learn to handle these things better House, cuz this is just plain bad.

[SilverWolf]

I officially hate this game now.

[SilverWolf]

I officially hate this game now.

I thought you enjoyed being scum? I seem to remember you saying something to that effect not too long ago.

*censored*

[SilverWolf]

yeah I'm done, I fucked this game up
requesting replacement

Fantastic............................................*sigh*

[SilverWolf]

You better not be lying House because you pushed me in a way that felt really scummy.

[SilverWolf]

I can't take this any more.

[SilverWolf]

choof-I hope you find peace and please don't sign up for any more games, not offense but clearly you are not happy playing here, take this as good natured advice as I've seen you replace out a few times now.

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

??

You heard me.

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

??

You heard me.

I saw your unvote, I'm just trying to understand why.

If it's about my post preceding your unvote, why didn't you ask yourself those questions before leading the charge?

Wut? No it isn't about the post preceding your unvote.

[SilverWolf]

*my unvote*

[SilverWolf]

I'm a she.

[SilverWolf]

No worries Bookitty, Just an FYI. You aren't the first person to say that and won't be the last.

I think I'm going to take Aero's advice and take a break and then re-read later.

Something tells me scum is not even actively posting right now.

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

??

You heard me.

I saw your unvote, I'm just trying to understand why.

If it's about my post preceding your unvote, why didn't you ask yourself those questions before leading the charge?

Wut? No it isn't about the post preceding my

*

unvote.

Ok. So what's it about?

*

Fix't

Because you told me you'd kill me. I think we should wait to lynch you until there's a really good target.

[SilverWolf]

I only have experience of your scumgame, House. Since I was killed night one (and my investigation was on you, by the way) I don't really have a clear picture of your town game.

Do you think SilverWolf is scum? Why else would she be chasing after low hanging fruit?

It cuts both ways. If she has knowledge of your meta, you also have knowledge of hers.

Can you link me up to a town game of yours, please? Something recent and pretty lengthy, if at all possible.

I did not misrep House at all. Those posts I linked were from a town game of his. He was not playing to his meta as town for all the reasons I listed. I've changed my mind because now he is. My pressure wagon on him worked.

[SilverWolf]

On what, I don't read all of House's games. I read a game where he said he doesn't claim scum as town and voted for someone for scumclaiming. I also had other reasons for voting him. I've since changed my mind. What other comment are you looking for that I haven't already said?

[SilverWolf]

BTW-I unvoted House awhile ago.

[SilverWolf]

And idk WTF he's saying when he says he's low hanging fruit either. Considering how well we know each other, he wouldn't be my first target if I were scum so that's just stupid.

[SilverWolf]

And idk WTF he's saying when he says he's low hanging fruit either. Considering how well we know each other, he wouldn't be my first target if I were scum so that's just stupid.

[SilverWolf]

House-I don't have time to read all your games. I read that one because you were ICing for the first time and so was I.

That is just asinine to assume I would consider you low hanging fruit in any game we play together. If I were scum, I would not go after you because we've played together too much.

This is common sense House.

[SilverWolf]

Above is in response to 400

[SilverWolf]

Bookitty's most recent string of posts (377 - 395) is bugging me a bit. I feel like she's trying to push both Silverwolf and House at the same time.

I was just getting ready to say this. She jumped on House's wagon and seems to be going after us both. I don't like it.

VOTE: Bookitty

[SilverWolf]

I especially don't like Bookitty's 395

My turn is it? I don't think so.

[SilverWolf]

House-I don't have time to read all your games. I read that one because you were ICing for the first time and so was I.

That is just asinine to assume I would consider you low hanging fruit in any game we play together. If I were scum, I would not go after you because we've played together too much.

This is common sense House.

It's unwise to consider my IC game to be typical of my usual game. I purposely altered my playstyle in that game for reasons obvious. Could you picture typical House being an IC? Oh hellz no.

I don't play the same as an IC either but those quotes stood out to me when you make that scum claim joke. Plus, the other things I said about how you were playing and dealing with me, I felt like it was worth a vote, wagon, interaction to figure out if you were scum or not and you can figure me out as well. I like interactions. It's easier to get reads.

[SilverWolf]

@SilverWolf: I assumed (apparently wrongly) that if you were presenting yourself as an expert on House's meta that you'd actually be one.

Trying to turn it around on me now that your expert opinion has been disproven is pretty scummy. It's not as scummy as oddmusic's dodging of my hypocrisy question and just moving right along to the next thing like it didn't even happen.

VOTE: oddmusic

BS!!

I said I knew his meta better than anyone playing in this game because I've played with him more than the rest of you.

Nowhere did I say I was an expert.

Your misrep is noted and scummy.

[SilverWolf]

I have my misgivings of Bookitty's play, but Riblet's rigid tunnel and refusal to jump on my wagon when I was 100x more scummy than his target du jour by his own standards just smacks of scum.

Look at the wagons. There was active resistance to choof's lynch, so he was safe there, but when mine popped up and I was objectively scummier in comparison to choof, he wouldn't switch because it looked like my lynch was actually going to go through and he didn't want the attention of being on a mislynch wagon.

That. Is. Scum.

I think he is stubborn and misguided town.

[SilverWolf]

i think it's essential that we all agree that choof is confirmed town

Not confirmed, but town.

[SilverWolf]

but when mine popped up

Was there a wagon on you? I honestly didn't notice. Doesn't really matter though cause at the end of the day, no matter who is actually lynched may vote will probably still be on whoever replaces choof.

^^^ HOW DOES THIS COME FROM TOWN?

Is it anti-town or scum? There is a difference sometimes.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: House

He claimed scum.

VOTE: House

He claimed scum.

Of all the people on this site, I'd have expected you to know my playstyle and humor most.

Twisting my tongue in cheek post to make it sound scummy is... scummy.

VOTE: SilverWolf

His voting me and running away is not his town meta. As town, he'd be up in my face trying to piss me off.

I feel better and better about my vote.

I don't understand how House's #289 was anything -but- "up in your face trying to piss you off".

Not that it matters any more because I'm not voting him right now but he OMGUS'd me and didn't respond to my points very well at that time. I already explained it all anyway why I was scumreading him. It's in my ISO. He has often been very confrontational with me in games as town. He wasn't at the time. It really doesn't matter at this point though.

[SilverWolf]

BTW, I just realized that I don't think silver is playing like his town self

I'm a she and do I know you?

[SilverWolf]

BTW, I just realized that I don't think silver is playing like his town self

BTW, I just realized that I don't think silver is playing like his town self

I'm a she and do I know you?

BTW, I just realized that I don't think silver is playing like his town self

I'm a she and do I know you?

Riblet doesn't even know you're a she, let alone your town meta, and he's doubtcasting you...

You consider THIS town?

I swear we need a wrecking ball up in hyur.

Are any of you reading what I'm posting? Fucking really?

What am I missing because if riblet is serious, that's a problem for me.

[SilverWolf]

BTW, I just realized that I don't think silver is playing like his town self

I'm a she and do I know you?

Oh, you are a she. My bad. And no you don't know me but let's just say we have mutual acquaintances

If you don't even know my gender, I doubt we have mutual acquaintances.

[SilverWolf]

BTW, I just realized that I don't think silver is playing like his town self

I'm a she and do I know you?

Oh, you are a she. My bad. And no you don't know me but let's just say we have mutual acquaintances

If you don't even know my gender, I doubt we have mutual acquaintances.

Not irl and no not really acquaintances per se, but Im familiar enough with your meta to say this game seems different to me. But don't worry, you have til day 3 to convince me I'm wrong.

P.edit - is it day 2 yet? You get my vote on day 2

*yawn*

[SilverWolf]

Kop is town, don't lynch him.

[SilverWolf]

Trust me on this guys. Move on.

[SilverWolf]

tn, Ozgin, and Boonskiies all have less posts than the mod

[SilverWolf]

Riblet-explain how you know me when you don't even know I'm a she, you said we know the same people and then changed it to meta when I've never played with you in a game or met you befor-I'm guessing you are an alt then but it's still very weird because you obviously don't know shit about me if you wanted to vote for me d3 after voting house d2. That's some creepy BS right there and I don't like it.

[SilverWolf]

Silver is not town to me because IMO 1. He asks more questions and 2. He usually bolds everyone's names every time he posts. I don't see that here so that's why I feel he's not playing the same.

Wrong!!

I never bold anyone's name, every in any game, when I type it.

You are a liar. I'm starting to rapidly lose my townread of you for your misrep.

I'm a she-again.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Riblet

You are lying about my meta and using it to paint me as scum on numerous occasions now.

[SilverWolf]

Wrong!!

I never bold anyone's name, every in any game, when I type it.

You are a liar. I'm starting to rapidly lose my townread of you for your misrep.

I'm a she-again.

In the games I've read you did...

I'm not a liar, maybe I haven't read all your games but I know what I know

Lying again.

Lynch all liars.

House-Why isn't your vote on scum?

[SilverWolf]

Riblet-post links to my games where I bold names like you said

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Riblet

You are lying about my meta and using it to paint me as scum on numerous occasions now.

1. I'm not lying about anything
2. I'm not trying to paint you as scum, I gave my read of you and moved on. There's a huge difference

1. You did lie saying I bolded names of people in my games when I don't.
2. You said I'm not town because of this.

This is scummy as fuck.

[SilverWolf]

Riblet-post links to my games where I bold names like you said

I will when I'm able to. I just realized its ongoing. My bad

Liar, you said GAMES where I bolded names. GAMES plural. And said I'm not doing it here so I'm not town. Now you are hiding behind ongoing because I can't comment on that.

Yeah, I don't buy it.

[SilverWolf]

I'm totally fine keeping my vote on Riblet for his lie. I'm good with it House. No need to convince me anyway.

[SilverWolf]

Spoiler:

BTW, I just realized that I don't think silver is playing like his town self

BTW, I just realized that I don't think silver is playing like his town self

I'm a she and do I know you?

Oh, you are a she. My bad. And no you don't know me but let's just say we have mutual acquaintances

BTW, I just realized that I don't think silver is playing like his town self

I'm a she and do I know you?

Oh, you are a she. My bad. And no you don't know me but let's just say we have mutual acquaintances

If you don't even know my gender, I doubt we have mutual acquaintances.

Not irl and no not really acquaintances per se, but Im familiar enough with your meta to say this game seems different to me. But don't worry, you have til day 3 to convince me I'm wrong.

P.edit - is it day 2 yet? You get my vote on day 2

1. So I'm scum because I didn't vote you for claiming scum. This is bullshit reason
2. Because I didn't see the post where you scum claimed, but was confident enough in my own scum read to know that I wasn't going to vote you. Another bullshit reason

3. The keep on keeping on isn't even a reason but it is bullshit

4. I did not fake meta anything, I am familiar with some of silvers meta and the fact that I didn't know she is actually a she doesn't mean shit. Another bullshit reason


All of these are your opinions why I'm scummy, and they are bullshit hence opinionated bullshit. What you failed to do is show why these things are more likely to come from scum vs town, because you can't.

Town is going to Vote their top scum
Town isn't going to be distracted by a VI who likes to claim scum as town
The third isn't even a reason
Town is going to claim they have enough knowledge of a players meta when they actually have it even if they don't notice the pronouns of said player.

Nice try, you still lose.

No I'm not a troll. I honest to god think that choof is scum and don't think house is a better vote. I also think house's case on me really isn't a case cause he hasn't shown anything scummy and he actually left off his bullshit idea that I am scum avoiding VCA, which makes sense because even he realized that was bullshit when he typed it. And I don't pay attention to pronouns cause I can't see them on my phone. I can take a screen shot if you'd like?

Silver is not town to me because IMO 1. He asks more questions and 2. He usually bolds everyone's names every time he posts. I don't see that here so that's why I feel he's not playing the same.

Wrong!!

I never bold anyone's name, every in any game, when I type it.

You are a liar. I'm starting to rapidly lose my townread of you for your misrep.

I'm a she-again.

In the games I've read you did...

I'm not a liar, maybe I haven't read all your games but I know what I know

You have no reason to lie about that as town, and it's beginning to appear you -are- lying about it.

I'm not lying about it

VOTE: Riblet

You are lying about my meta and using it to paint me as scum on numerous occasions now.

1. I'm not lying about anything
2. I'm not trying to paint you as scum, I gave my read of you and moved on. There's a huge difference

Right, so you don't notice things that are there, and notice things that aren't there.

You know what that's called? It's called lying.

When I read on my phone, which is basically all the time I miss things like that because to me its irrelevant.

I haven't lied once this game.

Riblet-post links to my games where I bold names like you said

I will when I'm able to. I just realized its ongoing. My bad

Riblet-post links to my games where I bold names like you said

I will when I'm able to. I just realized its ongoing. My bad

Liar, you said GAMES where I bolded names. GAMES plural. And said I'm not doing it here so I'm not town. Now you are hiding behind ongoing because I can't comment on that.

Yeah, I don't buy it.

there was a game where you were a replacement player and you bolded people's names when you were giving reads. It looked familiar to another player that bolds all of the players names and I somehow thought you were the same person and that is why I said games. I knew of at least 2.

I made a mistake, I didn't lie.

Here ya go psyche, all of Riblet's lies about me.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: tn5421

I believe Riblet's explanation after looking at the games he linked. I had my vote on tn earlier. Going back there now.

[SilverWolf]

Kind of wondering about Ozgin as well and where is Boonskiies?

[SilverWolf]

And for the record you voted kop for voting house because he claimed scum. That makes you just as bad as all the people who voted me for voting choof for the self vote. Its not a legit scum hunting vote. Its an opportustic vote.

In reality, I seen the post of House claiming scum, I can take it one of two ways, it's humor and I ignore it but could be setting up for later on in the game when the numbers start getting smaller, or the other way, I push it and see what comes of it. What happened was after all that scenario, I got a few votes casted on me, unfairly for me jumping on a player claiming scum, I'm not going to sit on my hands and just let the humor play the game. I think some of those votes on myself were very optimistic, seeing a fairly easy target with very weak reasoning and hoping for the best. I need to go back and have a look at those votes, and then have a look at the player that has casted the votes.

Why are you talking about it instead of simply doing it?

Are we supposed to say, "Ooh, ahhh, how town!"?

Knock it off, he said he was going to go do it, he actually makes a fair point-scum make a point of looking for easy targets, Riblet makes the same point.

I need to re-read the game.

[SilverWolf]

And for the record you voted kop for voting house because he claimed scum. That makes you just as bad as all the people who voted me for voting choof for the self vote. Its not a legit scum hunting vote. Its an opportustic vote.

In reality, I seen the post of House claiming scum, I can take it one of two ways, it's humor and I ignore it but could be setting up for later on in the game when the numbers start getting smaller, or the other way, I push it and see what comes of it. What happened was after all that scenario, I got a few votes casted on me, unfairly for me jumping on a player claiming scum, I'm not going to sit on my hands and just let the humor play the game. I think some of those votes on myself were very optimistic, seeing a fairly easy target with very weak reasoning and hoping for the best. I need to go back and have a look at those votes, and then have a look at the player that has casted the votes.

Why are you talking about it instead of simply doing it?

Are we supposed to say, "Ooh, ahhh, how town!"?

Knock it off, he said he was going to go do it, he actually makes a fair point-scum make a point of looking for easy targets, Riblet makes the same point.

I need to re-read the game.

Yeah, and he wasted a bunch of words talking about doing it instead of... simply... doing it.

He made a valid observation House, why did you bargain with TSO and Psyche to lynch him instead of your top scumread?

[SilverWolf]

Because Kop's wagon was more viable & I'm pragmatic. Why don't you go back and reread the post where I agreed to the offer?

I will if you go back and re-read as well. Let's not waste time in this game on stupid things.

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE: choof

I don't see scum playing like this, even strange scum. I don't have a clue what choof thinks they're doing but it doesn't look scum.

I see scum behind it personally. Do something so ludicrous that people believe its not possible for you to be scum, and you can push any agenda safely.

I didn't say you're guaranteed scummy, I just said it can come from scum and doesn't disqualify you as scum from my point of view.

I feel like scum would have just thrown out a vote with this mindset?

Or been testing the waters on an easy target?

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE: choof

I don't see scum playing like this, even strange scum. I don't have a clue what choof thinks they're doing but it doesn't look scum.

I see scum behind it personally. Do something so ludicrous that people believe its not possible for you to be scum, and you can push any agenda safely.

I didn't say you're guaranteed scummy, I just said it can come from scum and doesn't disqualify you as scum from my point of view.

I feel like scum would have just thrown out a vote with this mindset?

But on the other hand, why didn't he move his vote? Before it was some random vote on me.

I want more thoughts on this from people. Is tn's posting here scummy, town, or null?

It was the original reason I voted for him. choof was an easy target here and scum don't want to let people like this start being called town because it's one less mislynch possibility. That's exactly how I would think if I were scum this game and I'd probably like to keep the doubt on choof like tn is doing here.

[SilverWolf]

Kind of wondering about Ozgin as well and where is Boonskiies?

Doubt me all you want, you still have yet to answer my question: Mason or Neighbor with Kop? Or are you a scum who can say for certain he's town?

VOTE: Ozgin

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, he's new, there is that but that doesn't mean he's town either.

[SilverWolf]

So, I like my Ozgin vote:

4 posts

1 brings us back to RVS when it looked like we were getting out of it

1 calls for a PL on Riblet

2 are rolefishing

[SilverWolf]

Congrats tn, good for you.

[SilverWolf]

So, I like my Ozgin vote:

4 posts

1 brings us back to RVS when it looked like we were getting out of it

1 calls for a PL on Riblet

2 are rolefishing

your vote on me was essentially a PL. Vote...

Actually it wasn't because I though you were lying about me in a scum motivated manner.

[SilverWolf]

So, I like my Ozgin vote:

4 posts

1 brings us back to RVS when it looked like we were getting out of it

1 calls for a PL on Riblet

2 are rolefishing

I'd also like to add, no scumhunting from Ozgin.

obvscum is obvious

Just sayin'

[SilverWolf]

So, Ozgin gets cranky as scum.

Good to know.

[SilverWolf]

If anyone PL's in a game, it should be done D1 or not at all. Anything after that, is anti-town.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, okay, let me give you 4 hours of sleep followed by being late for school, catching an hour long bus into the city, dealing with old pricks for a few hours, coming home and trying to nap in the loudest house in the free world, and then getting so sick that breathing hurts. Then you come tell me what kind of mood you're in when you get picked apart under a microscope, and the person doing the picking did it and blew the results out of proportion.

I hope you feel better and sorry you are having a bad time. But this doesn't mean you aren't scum. Sorry.

[SilverWolf]

That's completely fair, but it doesn't mean I

am

scum. So what exactly do you think is scum about me?

651 Plus when I said you get cranky as scum you didn't deny you were scum.

[SilverWolf]

Look. I replaced into a troll slot. There's nothing I can do about that. It's still Day 1, though. Can I get a fresh start?

That's o.k. by me but you might not convince Riblet.

[SilverWolf]

I think that's fair. Reserve your judgment. I'll start reading everything after choof replaced out. I'll make some reads based on that. I'll post some thoughts. You all can judge me based on that. Fair enough?

Yep, sounds reasonable to me.

[SilverWolf]

Now what, SilverWolf?

Now you show me you are town by acting like it.

I've seen no scumhunting or reads from you at all.

Just defending yourself which good scum need to do to survive.

[SilverWolf]

Saul-You should take your vote off yourself.

[SilverWolf]

Replacing out is not alignment indicative at all and never should be considered as such.

[SilverWolf]

Shoot, no post links. Now, I have to go find those posts before I can respond.

Good posting though.

[SilverWolf]

SilverWolf: You agreed with the above post 401. Maybe you can shed some light? I don't see it. I hope you responded to post 451 better than in post 455. Why is Kop Town as of 492? Did I miss a post where you elaborated on this?

I agree'd with 401 at the time because Bookitty jumped on the House wagon due to trusting me on House's meta and when when my meta argument was disproven, she appeared set up to go after me next.

My response to 451 in 455 was already addressed extensively in the 1v1 with House and myself. He was not aggressively confronting me at that time the way I expected him to do as town and had seen him do in the past. I didn't feel like elaborating though because I had dropped my case on House by the time TSO asked me that and wasn't scumreading House any more.

Kop was town to me because the reasons he was being wagoned were bad. His awkward posting in response to not liking House's scumclaim was not scummy at all. I was wagoning House for similar reasons along with others so why was his vote bad and mine wasn't or why was his any worse than Bootkitty's opportunistic vote. I felt the reasons were very reachy to start calling for him to be hanged and all that other blustery language TSO was using and I didn't like it. In hindsight, I should of let the wagon continue to catch scum but hey, I like to break up wagons on town sometimes.

Ozgin is scum for assuming I was claiming anything and trying to find out what it was and you are town for asking me for my read of kop instead.

[SilverWolf]

This thread has gone stale. Someone do something scummy or vote Ozgin with me.

[SilverWolf]

Or maybe boonskiies or tn would be o.k. too.

[SilverWolf]

@Silverwolf: What's your case on tn? Because I'm really not seeing it.

Gut plus lack of good content mostly. I'd like to see him dig into the game more. He's a weak nullscum read for now.

[SilverWolf]

If we get a confirmed townie, your going to follow them in whereever they choose to go, and that's what something scum do in my experience of my time of playing mafia.

Why would scum follow confirmed town instead of kill them?

During the day?

[SilverWolf]

I'm signing off now before I tell House to fuck off.

Back later.

[SilverWolf]

Don't butt into my convos if you don't want me pissing in your cornflakes.

You overreacted to a simple comment. Not my problem.

[SilverWolf]

Don't butt into my convos if you don't want me pissing in your cornflakes.

You overreacted to a simple comment. Not my problem.

No. YOU are MY problem. So, I will become YOUR problem until YOU stop being MY problem.

How many times do I have to explain that shitting up an interaction is anti-town?

Nothing you say to me is going to change how I choose to play this game or why I do what I do. I don't care how much of an ass you are to me because that doesn't phase me any more.

Deal with it or fuck off. I really don't care which.

[SilverWolf]

Every heard the expression, you catch more bees with honey House?

[SilverWolf]

Don't butt into my convos if you don't want me pissing in your cornflakes.

You overreacted to a simple comment. Not my problem.

No. YOU are MY problem. So, I will become YOUR problem until YOU stop being MY problem.

How many times do I have to explain that shitting up an interaction is anti-town?

Nothing you say to me is going to change how I choose to play this game or why I do what I do. I don't care how much of an ass you are to me because that doesn't phase me any more.

Deal with it or fuck off. I really don't care which.

Translation: I don't care what an anti-town ass I'm being, I'm going to suck my thumb and pout.

You should talk about anti-town.

Translation: I'm not going to listen to what Wolfie says. Therefore, ensuring she will not want to work with me.

I am the almighty House who knows more about Mafia and therefore, she better cower under my insults or she is being anti-town but my always anti-town behvior is just who I am.

Fuck that noise.

[SilverWolf]

Every heard the expression, you catch more bees with honey House?

And when have I cared about catching bees?

If you want anyone to listen to you or work with you at all, you should. If you don't, then you are going to have a hard time catching scum this game.

[SilverWolf]

My anti-town behavior doesn't directly interfere with people trying to interact with others to get reads. If anything, it only interferes with that player's ability to read

me

until they figure out this is just who the fuck I am.

That's a huge difference between the bullshit that you pulled and you damned well know it.

Your anti-town behavior hurts town's ability to catch scum and that's way the fuck worse than me making a single comment that does not in any way at all stop you from interacting with kop.

Jesus fucking christ you are being a baby about this.

[SilverWolf]

My anti-town behavior doesn't directly interfere with people trying to interact with others to get reads. If anything, it only interferes with that player's ability to read

me

until they figure out this is just who the fuck I am.

That's a huge difference between the bullshit that you pulled and you damned well know it.

Your anti-town behavior hurts town's ability to catch scum and that's way the fuck worse than me making a single comment that does not in any way at all stop you from interacting with kop.

Your "single comment" tainted the interaction because you gave him an out that he may have otherwise not considered. You don't know. All you know is the way you think. You can't claim to know how anyone else thinks. SO STFU when people are trying to interact.

Jesus fucking christ you are being a baby about this.

You're fucking right I am, this is a habit with you.

My comment did not hurt a damn thing House and you know it. Your going off on me actually hurt that interaction far more than anything I said because look-now you are talking to me. I did cause this conversation between us to occur with a simple comment you could of ignored.

You did that all on your own.

[SilverWolf]

*did not*

[SilverWolf]

My anti-town behavior doesn't directly interfere with people trying to interact with others to get reads. If anything, it only interferes with that player's ability to read

me

until they figure out this is just who the fuck I am.

That's a huge difference between the bullshit that you pulled and you damned well know it.

Your anti-town behavior hurts town's ability to catch scum and that's way the fuck worse than me making a single comment that does not in any way at all stop you from interacting with kop.

Your "single comment" tainted the interaction because you gave him an out that he may have otherwise not considered. You don't know. All you know is the way you think. You can't claim to know how anyone else thinks. SO STFU when people are trying to interact.

Jesus fucking christ you are being a baby about this.

You're fucking right I am, this is a habit with you.

My comment did not hurt a damn thing House and you know it. Your going off on me actually hurt that interaction far more than anything I said because look-now you are talking to me. I did cause this conversation between us to occur with a simple comment you could of ignored.

You did that all on your own.

Me ignoring it doesn't mean Kop would ignore it.

DERRRRR

So? What did it tell you about him exactly? You went off on me instead so the answer to that is nothing.

Grrrrrrrr........................

[SilverWolf]

My anti-town behavior doesn't directly interfere with people trying to interact with others to get reads. If anything, it only interferes with that player's ability to read

me

until they figure out this is just who the fuck I am.

That's a huge difference between the bullshit that you pulled and you damned well know it.

Your anti-town behavior hurts town's ability to catch scum and that's way the fuck worse than me making a single comment that does not in any way at all stop you from interacting with kop.

Your "single comment" tainted the interaction because you gave him an out that he may have otherwise not considered. You don't know. All you know is the way you think. You can't claim to know how anyone else thinks. SO STFU when people are trying to interact.

Jesus fucking christ you are being a baby about this.

You're fucking right I am, this is a habit with you.

My comment did not hurt a damn thing House and you know it. Your going off on me actually hurt that interaction far more than anything I said because look-now you are talking to me. I did cause this conversation between us to occur with a simple comment you could of ignored.

You did that all on your own.

Me ignoring it doesn't mean Kop would ignore it.

DERRRRR

So? What did it tell you about him exactly? You went off on me instead so the answer to that is nothing.

Grrrrrrrr........................

I'll never know because you had to blunder into our convo before he answered.

That's... kinda the point.

Save your bullshit frustration, you have no right. You should be apologizing here.

You ever heard the expression you catch more bees with honey?

Instead of calling me a dumb ass and someone who needs to learn to shut the fuck up when someone isn't talking to them and trying to teach me a lesson like I'm some dog not listening to you, you could of just asked me to stay out of it and continued your interaction and I would have stayed out of it.

You went off on me. You insulted me.

You will get no apology from me.

[SilverWolf]

Aw, that just breaks my heart.

I can tell. I'm crushed as well.

[SilverWolf]

Instead of calling me a dumb ass and someone who needs to learn to shut the fuck up when someone isn't talking to them and trying to teach me a lesson like I'm some dog not listening to you, you could of just asked me to stay out of it and continued your interaction and I would have stayed out of it.

You went off on me. You insulted me.

You will get no apology from me.

Do you think House has been demonstrating Town behavior?

Yes, this is absolutely House being town. He is much more agreeable and friendly as scum.

[SilverWolf]

oh look House and SilverWolf, lovespat contd. GET A ROOM

Hey, stop interfering with our interaction.

[SilverWolf]

OK, so all this proves is House is town which I already knew.

I'm moving on now.

[SilverWolf]

Instead of calling me a dumb ass and someone who needs to learn to shut the fuck up when someone isn't talking to them and trying to teach me a lesson like I'm some dog not listening to you, you could of just asked me to stay out of it and continued your interaction and I would have stayed out of it.

You went off on me. You insulted me.

You will get no apology from me.

Do you think House has been demonstrating Town behavior?

Yes, this is absolutely House being town. He is much more agreeable and friendly as scum.

Well this might raise some flags for you then, because I'm going to apologize (even though I still think I'm the one that deserves one since you were the first one in the wrong anyway).

I overstepped with the insults. It's something I'm trying to work on, but I still slip up. I'm sorry for that.

Thank You, I'm sorry I interfered in your interaction with kop. It wasn't intentional. I just made one simple comment.

I will stop interfering in your interactions if you can stop insulting me to the best of your ability. I know it's hard for you and I cut you more slack than others because of it.

It's all good House.

[SilverWolf]

like I'm some dog not listening to you

But I do take genuine offense that you think I consider you as a dog in any form. I don't see how you can think that, given [redacted].

Sorry but you have called me a manipulative canine before.

[SilverWolf]

OK, so all this proves is House is town which I already knew.

I'm moving on now.

No. It also gave me a better feel for you. This certainly didn't feel like a scum distancing interaction.
UNVOTE: House

I wanted to see if you would jump on a House wagon. Based on some posts you had made earlier, I would have come down on you like a bag of bricks if you had. So I will take your meta opinion into consideration as I attempt to resolve House's alignment. My early sense is that he strikes me as someone who likely plays abrasive Town. This is an easy meta to abuse, though. So I would encourage you to take that under advisement moving forward. In other words, don't Town clear him too quickly.

Understood and I will definitely take this into consideration for sure and I'm glad it helped you try to sort us both.

[SilverWolf]

like I'm some dog not listening to you

But I do take genuine offense that you think I consider you as a dog in any form. I don't see how you can think that, given [redacted].

Sorry but you have called me a manipulative canine before.

Wolves are a member of the canine family, so I stand by that remark.

I have never, ever, referred to you as a dog.

You are right!! I stand corrected. My bad on that one.

[SilverWolf]

oh look House and SilverWolf, lovespat contd. GET A ROOM

Hey, stop interfering with our interaction.

Awww, you two made up. It's so SWEET like a soft-baked chocolate chip cookie.

Also, SW you keep changing your avatar.

We're friends. We make up.

And I wanted an avie more in line with being a Silver Wolf plus I don't like moving avies.

I changed in earlier to meet a theme of a game I'm no longer in.

Anyway, this one stays for awhile.

Did you ever answer your own questions you asked earlier?

[SilverWolf]

okay is elusive town or scum

Wait a minute and I'll tell you:

1) elusive: What do you hope to get out these questions?

2) What are your answers to these questions?

3) What does this tell you about everyone's alignment?

Can I wait until more people answer them, SW?

I meant this elusive. Did you follow up on this?

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, I tried leading a lynch and a wagon on House and that failed miserably so I'm not going to lead town. I had a game where I was pretty much the town leader and we mislynched a ton because of me although we did lynch correctly twice. My other sort of leadership town game, I was wrong on most of my reads except one town read and one scum read.

So I suck at this game for the most part and would be a terrible choice for leader. I will follow a good leader however if we find one.

[SilverWolf]

Shit that's right, scum like to kill town leaders.

Nevermind that plan then.

Boon-Where the fuck you at?

[SilverWolf]

Yeah well, Riblet said I was his D3 vote based on someone who wasn't even me.

[SilverWolf]

choof replaced out of several games, I can't say anything else but I've never replaced out of a game for alignment reasons as I like playing as both alignments win or lose-although I prefer winning but who doesn't? I've done it for RL stress and not being able to give a game the time it requires or rarely, a conflict that is making the game too toxic so I remove myself. That's it. People who replace out due to alignment are not really endearing themselves to the player or the mods. I don't condone that type of play. I don't think choof was doing that. choof was frustrated because of USMB meta. choof was town, I also think Riblet is stubborn town

[SilverWolf]

VI is attacking the play, not the player and is not reportable, please get over it

[SilverWolf]

choof replaced out of several games

This is good info. Did he replace out of a bunch of active games at the same time?

Not a bunch but more than just this one. Can't say much more than that.

[SilverWolf]

Rawr. Prod dodge.

Is this Boon town or scum play?

prod dodging and lurking

[SilverWolf]

elusive-I thought you might be scum until you posted 871

I'm wondering if we are concentrating on the wrong people and town is hurting itself in the process?

Cuz tn, Boon, and Ozgin are UTR. Even with Ozgin's interaction with me yesterday I didn't really see town, boon's prod doging and lurking, tn is producing almost no content of any substance, Bookitty and Odd are only o.k. Odd is capable of looking very town per our last game and it is my understanding that Bookitty is as well.

Just sayin'

If scum is active here, I'm having a tough time figuring out who it is.

pedit: I agree Boon should play or replace and damn House, yellow kills my eyes on this forum

another pedit: Good post by elusive

[SilverWolf]

If Ozgin is scum, scum, scum which I agree with, why won't anyone vote him with me?

WTF?

[SilverWolf]

Bus a buddy, vote a townie...Classic. I'm going to keep my vote on Psyche. He's gonna flail soon. Yeeeee haw. I'm from California, I don't know why I yee haw'd.

Do you really believe you found all three(?) scum after skimming the thread.

Yes. All three of you are scum, with the exception of maybe Kop and Ozgin.

You barely had time to read the thread and you should replace Kop with tn and idk about Psyche, I do back and forth. Ozgin is scum though.

Riblet is not but too many people think he is.

Meh...............................

[SilverWolf]

Wow-That fruit looks delicious.

I'll just call you House since I no longer think you are an asshole in this game.

[SilverWolf]

elusive-Don't forget my questions.

[SilverWolf]

SilverWolf, talk to me about House? Is your read on him still fluctuating? Because you seemed to be extremely paranoid early-game and then reconcile that very suddenly.

He's being abrasive, scumhunting, tunneling people, arguing with me, etc. I feel pretty good about him being town. Because it's only D1, this isn't set in stone but I feel pretty good about this read right now.

I still don't think tn has scumhunted or Ozgin for that matter really. Just sayin'

[SilverWolf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ffT-_ffdZE

See above link:

Take the piece that is after the = which in this case is 4ffT-_ffdZE

And put it between the youtube links

Code: Select all

[youtube]4ffT-_ffdZE[/youtube]

You'll get:

[SilverWolf]

Psyche's right, Ozgin's case on him isn't very good. He does pick up on Psyche's wagon hopping, which was my problem with Psyche's play earlier in the game, but mostly just calls everything Psyche does "shitposting" without backing it up.

Ozgin, there is a difference between noticing that SW was commenting at a PR (which I thought she was doing as well), and essentially demanding that SW reveal her role. I don't like either, but the first is just a comment. The other is actively rolefishing. I'll leave you to work out which one you did.

This is why I still think Ozgin is scum.

[SilverWolf]

The whole thing or just the bit about role fishing?

The whole thing. Bad case plus rolefishing. Not that I'm sure Psyche is town, just that a lot of Ozgin's case is not real solid.

[SilverWolf]

OK, Ozgin, I'm not townreading Psyche right now but I do remember vaguely following this game he was in that Wake was moderating and House was in and someone else I knew. Psyche was scum there and claimed Masons with a townie and basically spent a good part of the game saying he didn't want to play and should replace out IIRC. Maybe House could help me with that and I think tn was in that one too.

He seems more interested in the game but a couple of his comments were angry rolefishing as well which is why I'm reserved here. How does his joke voting with House at the beginning of the game make him scummy?

[SilverWolf]

I'm not too happy with Psyche for that either. Oz-do you have reads on anyone else besides Psyche?

I feel like shit and probably won't be posting much or at all today. Just an FYI.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Psyche

[SilverWolf]

and SW definitely seemed to be claiming masons (at least that's how I took it). I don't understand anyone vouching for a player like that so early in a game.

Bang on the money. Myself and Silverwolf, are both town masons.

Confirming this.

[SilverWolf]

You are the one who forced our hand in claiming Masons, wouldn't shut up about it, tried to string up my mason partner, and re-voted him later.

[SilverWolf]

Who are you talking to? If it's me, you can start by referring to me as the correct gender which has been discussed at length this game. I don't particularly think someone trying to blatantly out roles is very townie. Maybe that's just me. Who knows?

[SilverWolf]

Kop is the one who was scummy. You're the one who decided that Kop wasn't good enough at being town that he couldn't survive the Day without claiming. Not

once

did Kop seriously try to address the substance of the accusations against him. But you're mad at me! That's immature. But converting that anger into belief that I'm scum - that's stupid.

Not true at all regarding the part about me thinking he wasn't good enough at being town. I got very nervous and jumpy at this crap:

Spoiler:

VOTE: house

Claim scum as humor, we believe it's humor, he carries on playing the game. Nope, you claim scum in any sense, needs rope imo.

Okay, everyone, we got the scum. You can sheep me now.

No, really, run this fucker up - #308 is opportunistic as hell.

But, as you're all beginning to see, Kop was scum. Thus, House is town. Flip Kop, work off House's wagon, we probably catch another. Might even be home in time for tea.

Feel free to modkill Kop to speed things up, Aero, I'm sure your mother would like you home tonight as well.

This wagon has me AND Psyche. Frankly, it's a privilege to be on it with us.

Oh, ladies, we'll buy you a gigolo each tonight while Kop hangs from the noose.

Seriously, though.

And this:

Spoiler:

I also like TSO's choice.

vote Kop

Seems a bit more solid.

I promise to vote Riblet for as long as you want me to tomorrow if you help us lynch Kop today.

And this:

Deal.

VOTE: Kop

Also, Kop's chainsaw/soft defense of Riblet in 260 & Riblet's soft defense of Kop in 487 looks like a possible scumteam, so I'm happy with either of these 2 dying today.

Then Ozgin comes straight out and asks us twice if we are masons. But that isn't enough on no. I tired to WIFOM the situation with Saul's help because it seemed that several people had not figured it out and you ruined that with this:

Spoiler:

does kop know if wolf is town?

More seriously, I want to be sure that there's no chance that either of them are actually scum. If the knowledge is declared mutual, then those two slots are locked up and I don't even mind if they become NK bait.

Wait, what???

The only reason I unvoted kop was because you vouched for him!

vote kop

Kop is town, don't lynch him.

Trust me on this guys. Move on.

I still wish I knew why you made these posts. They make me very angry.

the day my role becomes common knowledge i want you to remember your shit case and apologize to the town for it

It better be a GOOD Town PR. I was thinking about rolefishing the crap out of you for trying to rolefish SW. And CONTINUING that trend. Makes me want to throw a shoe at my screen.

sw derailed a solid wagon by softclaiming a power role
it was pretty important that the softclaim be pinned down, especially in case Kop eventually flips scum

i'm sort of surprised that you're petty enough to do an antitown thing just because someone else did the antitown thing
it really disrupts my read of you

and SW definitely seemed to be claiming masons (at least that's how I took it). I don't understand anyone vouching for a player like that so early in a game.

like, i'm actually suspicious about the way sw backed off of his softclaim

[SilverWolf]

But converting that anger into belief that I'm scum - that's stupid.

Yeah. But she has a right to call you out. You forced her hand and made her hard claim. Having a *bit* of WIFOM left for the scum team is the right play on Day 1 unless one of them are being run up. This isn't rocket surgery.

So what was the point, Psyche? You got your hard claim. Do you feel like it has helped?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS!!!!!

[SilverWolf]

Bang on the money. Myself and Silverwolf, are both town masons.

Confirming this.

Yeah. This was pretty obvious. Which is why Psyche was being a dolt to keep pushing this. Only so many subtle ways to say back off...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS!!!!

[SilverWolf]

It was very obvious until you explicitly denied it. Which came off as scummy to me.

It was not obvious to everyone and I was trying to keep it that way and I kept trying to ignore your crap and move on and you wouldn't stop.

Like seriously dude, do you think that would work if myself or kop and I both were scum?

[SilverWolf]

Course my goal was explicitly

not

a fullclaim from SW but just a vouch that we could hold her to.
I didn't want her role; I wanted her word.

And what do you think would happen with the way you were pushing me anyway? It looked like a hardclaim push and you know it.

[SilverWolf]

It was very obvious until you explicitly denied it. Which came off as scummy to me.

Oh, by the way, please show me where I confirmed or denied anything before kop said something.

[SilverWolf]

Alright, SW. It's in the open now. Who looks the worst to you for the Kop wagon?

So with confirmation now, TSO goes higher on my list as possible scum. His push was shit

So with confirmation now, TSO goes higher on my list as possible scum.

TSO and Psyche both. And weakens my Townish read on House somewhat.

Agree with all this although I'm still townreading House. Definitely not TSO or Psyche though. Ozgin and tn are worrisome as well.

[SilverWolf]

What's daytalk?

It's where scum can talk in their PT day or night instead of just at night.

Masons have daytalk this game.

[SilverWolf]

Kop was town to me because the reasons he was being wagoned were bad. His awkward posting in response to not liking House's scumclaim was not scummy at all. I was wagoning House for similar reasons along with others so why was his vote bad and mine wasn't or why was his any worse than Bootkitty's opportunistic vote. I felt the reasons were very reachy to start calling for him to be hanged and all that other blustery language TSO was using and I didn't like it. In hindsight, I should of let the wagon continue to catch scum but hey, I like to break up wagons on town sometimes.

re: "explicit"

If you'll look, I was totally angry with ozkin too about the rolefishing, but then this came up and I felt wronged.

That should of told you I was trying to WIFOM it and you wouldn't stop. You made it worse by implying myself or Kop is scum and you made it worse by saying you wanted us out and didn't even care if we were NK bait.

How the hell is that from town?

This scummy-looking player gets voted for; someone says "He's town. Trust me"; the player is still scummy looking. When the someone says "Oh, that was just my read on him", I'm confused still think that player's scummy looking and this other person's derailed the wagon on them.

SMFH

And what happens if SW gets NKed and flips Mason? Do we forget about this interaction with Kop when Kop claims to be her Mason buddy and someone counters him?? It was just a dumb PR to chase.

Totally agree.

[SilverWolf]

It's where scum can talk in their PT day or night instead of just at night.

So your scum can only talk at night? That's different.

Generally they can only talk at night unless the mod says their is daytalk or there is a mafie encryptor which enables daytalk for scum. I will tell you the one time I had it as scum in a game, it was a massive benefit to us.

[SilverWolf]

That should of told you I was trying to WIFOM it and you wouldn't stop.

No. It told me "backtracking". Because I thought Kop was scum. The only reason I stopped thinking Kop was scum was because you vouched for him. And then you said that your vouch was based a read. If I thought you were town, I would return to voting Kop because of course I don't trust your reads. If I thought you were scum (and I suspected you were because what I saw was "backtracking"), I would return to voting Kop because now I had a column of dominoes to topple.

Ever heard of anchoring? I'll repeat this to you again, because it was the basis of your bad Riblet vote, too. When you're scumhunting, you can't just think about what

you

would do or think, or about what someone

should

do or think, because other people are different from you and will see the world in a different way.

You made it worse by implying myself or Kop is scum and you made it worse by saying you wanted us out and didn't even care if we were NK bait.

How the hell is that from town?

I did not believe that you were NK bait (because I believed you were scum); I did, however, believe that you were scum. If having a wrong scumread were scummy, most of us would be dead right now. Equating mistaken or bad play with scum play is fallacious and will only result in scum lynches when scum aren't playing cautiously (scum are always playing cautiously).

I was trying to WIFOM because not everyone caught what I was saying and Saul gave me the perfect opportunity to explain that with a read instead. I NEVER confirmed or denied we were masons so how can it be a backtrack? There is no way that would work if we were scum or I was.

You did say you didn't care if we were NK bait which is very scummy with this comment:

More seriously, I want to be sure that there's no chance that either of them are actually scum. If the knowledge is declared mutual, then those two slots are locked up and I don't even mind if they become NK bait.

[SilverWolf]

Why are you ignoring my point that your claim "I think you were the only one confused" is false? Do you only quote the parts of posts you feel like you can reply to?

I think it was well covered. You were the only one pushing for a hard claim pages later. Everyone else was willing to leave the WIFOM out there. Hence: you were the only one confused.

If scum bought the WIFOM or not is irrelevant. As long as it isn't confirmed in thread there is ALWAYS some element of doubt. ANY amount of doubt could have been helpful. You also just limited both SW and Kop in how they can play their cards.

My point exactly!!

[SilverWolf]

kop and I discussed how scum would deal with a Mason claim before outing but I'd rather not repeat that in thread or what conclusions we came to

BUT, now town has 2 less people to look at when looking for scum today so that's something

[SilverWolf]

and we tried to leave it at that

No you didn't. You guys specifically denied the "soft claim" reading of her vouch. If you hadn't done that, I would have gone with that narrative and even lynched ozkin for trying to cut it off.

Here's the problem with that.

I never confirmed or denied anything and there is no way in hell you can spin it to say I did.

I didn't backtrack because I didn't claim, NOR did I ever deny anything either as much as you want to think otherwise.

No one else read that as scum. Everyone else but you was willing to let it go.

YOU pushed it.

[SilverWolf]

I actually though all of the votes on kop were shit for the reasons I gave in my read of him that Psyche is now calling backtracking.

That wasn't a good wagon but I could be biased here...................maybe.

[SilverWolf]

I never confirmed or denied anything and there is no way in hell you can spin it to say I did.

Of course you did. You as surely did that as surely as Kop claimed masons with you a few pages ago.

No I did not.

[SilverWolf]

kop was run up for not having a good sense of humor and Bookitty's vote was also opportunistic and no one questioned that because kop was an easier target for either scum looking for a mislynch or maybe overzealous town wanting a wagon

[SilverWolf]

Kop was town to me because the reasons he was being wagoned were bad. His awkward posting in response to not liking House's scumclaim was not scummy at all. I was wagoning House for similar reasons along with others so why was his vote bad and mine wasn't or why was his any worse than Bootkitty's opportunistic vote. I felt the reasons were very reachy to start calling for him to be hanged and all that other blustery language TSO was using and I didn't like it. In hindsight, I should of let the wagon continue to catch scum but hey, I like to break up wagons on town sometimes.

re: "explicit"

If you'll look, I was totally angry with ozkin too about the rolefishing, but then this came up and I felt wronged.

several people were looking for an explanation of your vouch for kop
the others thought you were just softclaiming
and then you came in with
"kop was town to me because X"
(and that X was bad, too.)
This

directly

contradicted the softclaim narrative.
But I know a softclaim when I see one.
So I read the entire bit as a lie - a scumslip.

Can't you see where I'm coming from? Just stand for a moment in my shoes!

How on Earth is that a scumslip when I never fucking denied anything!! And why in the Hell, do you as an experienced player, think I could honestly get away with that shit as scum?

No one else questioned this but you so it wasn't fucking obvious or several other people in the game would of called me out or called kop out or called both of us out.

It does not compute Psyche.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: house

Claim scum as humor, we believe it's humor, he carries on playing the game. Nope, you claim scum in any sense, needs rope imo.

This is a bad vote. I think even Kop himself would agree that this is a bad vote.

Either you agree with me or you don't think this is a bad post - in which case I would enjoy crushing your response, so it's really all the same to me.

It was not a bad vote. He was following me. I voted for House for claiming scum. Bookitty followed me as well and you never went after her.

This is bad TSO and I expect better from you if you are town.

[SilverWolf]

sw im sorry for calling you dumb and immature and a guy

Not sure how it would help you as scum to piss me off though.

[SilverWolf]

It's not that bad of a vote, it certainly wasn't "opportunistic" which you said at one point in the game. If anything it's a town reaction to vote somebody who claims scum

It was opportunistic because it was an easy vote. That's what opportunisitic means.

It's not a town reaction to vote someone who claims scum - claiming scum is in no way more likely to come from scum. It's far more likely to be from town.

I assumed House was talking about the Masons because I didn't see the context.

even though he quoted the context?

You didn't.

VOTE: house

Claim scum as humor, we believe it's humor, he carries on playing the game. Nope, you claim scum in any sense, needs rope imo.

This is a bad vote. I think even Kop himself would agree that this is a bad vote.

Either you agree with me or you don't think this is a bad post - in which case I would enjoy crushing your response, so it's really all the same to me.

It was not a bad vote. He was following me. I voted for House for claiming scum. Bookitty followed me as well and you never went after her.

This is bad TSO and I expect better from you if you are town.

I fundamentally disagree - you being his Mason partner doesn't mean all your opinions are correct.

Even

if he was following you for being conftown to him, and you think it wasn't a bad vote for that reason - no-one else knew. Certainly not me.

I think you're letting your knowledge of Kop being town skew your reading of what happened, SW.

It wasn't just for claiming scum and he wasn't the only one who followed me. Yeah, it was a bad push and I don't expect to be right every time but his vote was no worse than Bookitty's.

I just want to make sure that wagon and those on it and the reasons for it were legit or not.

[SilverWolf]

if it was

so

obvious then i didn't do anything harmful

If it wasn't obvious then that explains why I did it

SMFH.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

OBVIOUS

AND

CONFIRMED

!!

YOU MADE A DUMB PLAY BY FORCING SOMETHING

OBVIOUS

TO BE

CONFIRMED

.

ACCEPT IT AND MOVE ON BECAUSE YOU AREN'T GOING TO CONVINCE

ANYONE

THAT YOU DID US ANY FAVORS.

EXACTLY!!!!

[SilverWolf]

if it was

so

obvious then i didn't do anything harmful

If it wasn't obvious then that explains why I did it

SMFH.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

OBVIOUS

AND

CONFIRMED

!!

YOU MADE A DUMB PLAY BY FORCING SOMETHING

OBVIOUS

TO BE

CONFIRMED

.

ACCEPT IT AND MOVE ON BECAUSE YOU AREN'T GOING TO CONVINCE

ANYONE

THAT YOU DID US ANY FAVORS.

i didn't

force

anything;
at both the vouching and the claim SW and Kop had a choice to make and picked the easy one
and botched it themselves by lying outright about it to the town
and there is no difference between obvious and confirmed when it comes to scumplay

NO ONE LIED!!!!

[SilverWolf]

Nope Psyche, that was my read on him regardless of knowing we were masons together because Saul asked me for it. But you can keep calling me a liar and add it to stupid, immature and a guy if it makes you happy.

Whatever!!

[SilverWolf]

Even with that contorted logic, it's still a lie~

No, it is not. I did not lie. Period.

[SilverWolf]

elusive, my problem is he's trying to discredit me right now and it's scummy

WTF good does it do except piss me off?

Why is he insistent on trying to show that I'm wrong and he's not?

How does that help town?

Why not talk about this post game?

I'll tell you why? Because he's scum and trying to distract from scum hunting.

[SilverWolf]

SW keeps failing to understand when I say it, but this

was

a lie and this

was

one of her mistakes that she refuses to take any responsibility for.

Tell me how this helps town? What good does it do?

Anyone got an answer for me on that?

Psyche-"I'm not wrong. SW needs to accept responsibility for being a dumbass when I and two others were trying to wagon her mason partner and talking about stringing him up. Until she does that, I'm going to call her a liar until she looks worthless and incompetent and she won't be able to help town cuz she's a moron and don't listen to her cuz I'm scum and that'll make me happy"

[SilverWolf]

Also, it's scummy to you guys for me to care about pissing other people off, huh??

You already did piss me off.

Lecture me post game if I fucked up. Doing it in game, helps scum.

You are helping scum.

Full stop.

And I think you are doing it cuz you are scum cuz town wouldn't do this shit right now!!

[SilverWolf]

elusive, I really like you, I think you are a cool person, but Psyche and I need to either work this out or I will replace out

I'm serious.

[SilverWolf]

I'm done. But if I read one more bit about how me being friendly is evidence of scum play. If I read one more claim that sounds like endorsement of the idea that being petty, that being an ass, that being uncompromising, that caring more about how others respect your play than about how much fun everyone is having — that these were are, protown plays — this is the Psyche that everyone will get. I can be like this page after page after page and I can avoid getting lynched for it, I promise. This is not a game about how big anyone's dick is and I will not keep playing nice guy every single time someone tries to turn it into one.

Who is this directed at?

WTF did I ever do to you, to make you think you have the right to be a complete ass to me?

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

I no longer think Psyche is scum.

[SilverWolf]

I'm done. But if I read one more bit about how me being friendly is evidence of scum play. If I read one more claim that sounds like endorsement of the idea that being petty, that being an ass, that being uncompromising, that caring more about how others respect your play than about how much fun everyone is having — that these were are, protown plays — this is the Psyche that everyone will get. I can be like this page after page after page and I can avoid getting lynched for it, I promise. This is not a game about how big anyone's dick is and I will not keep playing nice guy every single time someone tries to turn it into one.

Who is this directed at?

WTF did I ever do to you, to make you think you have the right to be a complete ass to me?

Why, you were the last straw, not the very worst. You decided to play the blame game and I decided I would play along is all. Why do you think it's okay to place all the blame for your claim for me, but when I do the converse I'm an asshole?

You are going to have to explain to me why being vindictive and mean and insulting me and calling me a liar is helpful to town. I do not get it at all.

I didn't do that to you. Not anywhere.

You fucked up and so did I.

So what? You think no one makes mistakes in this game? I know I'm bad at it and in-experienced and trying to get better and as an experienced player you can try to help me with that, if you are town by working with me instead of being an ass to me.

I play this game to have fun and I have and will replace out of a game regardless of alignment if it starts getting un-fun or toxic in any way.

I like Aero but I'm not going to ruin his game by being a drama queen. I'll just remove myself and that will solve the problem entirely if both of us aren't here to aggravate it.

[SilverWolf]

Okay, so I lost my cool and took it all out on you in some sort of extended OMGUS. It started with ozkin and just snowballed and I broke every single principle I planned on outright advocating this game. I didn't like the way choof was just pushed out, and it felt like the same things behind his replacement were just repeating over and over again with riblet and then with tn and ozkin and finally with your claim/vote in conjunction with Saul's insistence on rubbing the whole situation in I just decided to press buttons that I've gotten too good at pressing over my time on the internet. I didn't want to make a point, even though that's how it turned out. I was demoralized and lashing out.

Well, for some reason you decided to take it out on me. I'm easy to push. I've exploded in games before. I'm an emotional player. I try not to be and sometimes succeed and sometimes I don't.

You don't have to work to set me off. It's way too fucking easy to do.

I no longer think you are scum though so I need to re-set my reads.

[SilverWolf]

SW - Do I come across as arrogant to you?

Nope, not to me you don't.

[SilverWolf]

every mafia game is going to have some toxicity. every mafia game should have some toxicity. scum or misguided or crap town will accuses a town player who has a town PM and knows in its little pure heart that it is all that is good and holy of being scum and make cases and some will be lies or misinterpretations.

the difference is that in the context of the game you can get upset and then respond in whatever myriad ways but it doesn't actually effect rl nor should it.

I mean I think choof was hilarious but his replace out is actually pissing me off to a high degree because it destroys the game to not be able to take heat. when i want to fluff post I go to another forum and make millions of little <3 symbols. I play mafia because of the sadomachist impulses that it satisfies along with some fetishization of detectives and the power of deductive\inductive logic and bbc sherlock ftw.

psyche lash out at people who can take it. or who aren't here.

oh and saul, I play every game regardless of the filthy role pm decreed by rng\fate as vig. its the best.

This is an awesome post.