Mini 1655: Delicious Mafia (Game Over, Perfect Scum Win!)

Saul Goode · Post Post #681 (isolation #0) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:51 pm

LOL - So I see my predecessor rage quit after insulting the game? Awesome.

Is it even worth catching up on the game? This slot is Town. I can try to salvage it if it's worth my time.

Saul Goode · Post Post #683 (isolation #1) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:54 pm

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6682742#p6682742]post 658[/url], Riblet wrote:
In post 649, Aeronaut wrote:
Saul Goode replaces choof

vote Saul

Just to be official about it.

Just out of curiosity; is it site meta to lynch vacated slots?

Saul Goode · Post Post #685 (isolation #2) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:57 pm

In post 658, Riblet wrote:
In post 649, Aeronaut wrote:
Saul Goode replaces choof

vote Saul

Just to be official about it.

In post 682, House wrote:
In post 681, Saul Goode wrote:LOL - So I see my predecessor rage quit after insulting the game? Awesome.

Is it even worth catching up on the game? This slot is Town. I can try to salvage it if it's worth my time.

Read moar.

It gets better.

LOL - I can't even make it through his ISO.

Alright. Give me a few minutes to see what I'm in here.

Saul Goode · Post Post #687 (isolation #3) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:00 pm

Look. I replaced into a troll slot. There's nothing I can do about that. It's still Day 1, though. Can I get a fresh start?

Saul Goode · Post Post #692 (isolation #4) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:04 pm

In post 658, Riblet wrote:
In post 649, Aeronaut wrote:
Saul Goode replaces choof

vote Saul

Just to be official about it.

In post 682, House wrote:
In post 681, Saul Goode wrote:LOL - So I see my predecessor rage quit after insulting the game? Awesome.

Is it even worth catching up on the game? This slot is Town. I can try to salvage it if it's worth my time.

Read moar.

It gets better.

I think that's fair. Reserve your judgment. I'll start reading everything after choof replaced out. I'll make some reads based on that. I'll post some thoughts. You all can judge me based on that. Fair enough?

Saul Goode · Post Post #693 (isolation #5) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:05 pm

Sorry. My proxy server is doing weird things and keeps adding those quotes to my posts if I don't pay attention.

Saul Goode · Post Post #714 (isolation #6) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:35 pm

I started reading at post 358 [page 15].

House: I have some concerns. Right off the bat I notice in 358 that you seem to be bullying Riblet for not being on your wagon? That's a fairly aggressive stance if you are Town since I would think you wouldn't want to be lynched. In 380 you piled on more by saying he's trying to avoid VCA. Kind of early for an accusation like that, isn't it? Don't you typically need a flip in the first place? What if Choof had been scum and he was the one that drove that wagon? Also, please don't claim scum as Town. If you are Town you are hurting me. And that makes me very sad. More on that at the bottom.

Riblet: What's your read on House? I'd love to hear your progression on him. Also, what do you think of me? Am I handsome? Also, why do I hate posts 458 and 463 AND 478 so much? In post 481 I can at least agree that your stated vote motivation isn't inherently scummy. Post 514 is pretty gross, though. You are using formatting differences as a meta excuse to scum read someone? 529 - can you link to a game or two where she did this? Might make you look less silly - oh. 549. LOL.

Bookitty: In post 386 you have a quote demonstrating House saying SilverWolf should know his meta. Did you use that quote 289 as a reason to vote for House? Because if you did, I think you missed something important.

oddmusic: What did you mean in post 401 when you said "I feel like Bootykitty's trying to push both Silverwolf and House at the same time?"

SilverWolf: You agreed with the above post 401. Maybe you can shed some light? I don't see it. I hope you responded to post 451 better than in post 455. Why is Kop Town as of 492? Did I miss a post where you elaborated on this?

TSO: I like the cut of your jib. You've got swagger. Your example post in 403 did make Kop look opportunistic. Then again, this is only Day 1. If House flips Town at some time in the future, this could be a file in the case, though. Also, language can be toned down a bit. Your voice might be louder with fewer f-bombs. But post 451, a post without f-bombs, is good work. Looking for posts from Kop to see if 452 is more good work.

Psyche: I wish your avatar was a pineapple. Also, how did Choof become confirmed Town according to post 434? I didn't read that far back.

elusive: I like you calling out the tunnel vision in 447 and 448. I don't know if that makes you Town or helpful scum but I like it.

Kop: 599 stinks. Unless, of course, you think Silver was in danger of actually claiming at that point for absolutely no reason?

Ozgin: Okay. I gave you the first one. But 619 is dumb. Rather than role fish, and why assume it's role related at all, why not aske her where her READ is coming from?

tn5421: Really I'd rather see better contributions to the game before sarcastic noncontributing posts like 626. Seriously. That's not fun to read and doesn't make the game state fun while also not furthuring the game or contributing anything of value. I hope your game improves as I read.

Overall, I think there was probably too much meta talk for Day 1. Meta is maleable. This is especially true on Day 1. That's why it doesn't mean as much until later in the game when people tend to tire of faking meta.

Here's a fun fact about me for the record; I will ALWAYS play to my win condition. That means you will never see me self-vote [unless I'm a Jester or that vote in some other way enables me to achieve my win condition] and I will never claim scum. If any of you do stuff like this on the regular, I'd ask that you take a step back and ask yourself if this is the right game for you because it is actually a team game and you are hurting your team when you do stuff like this.

UNVOTE: Choof

[microphone drop]

Saul Goode · Post Post #715 (isolation #7) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:39 pm

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6683282#p6683282]post 700[/url], Riblet wrote:
In post 695, Psyche wrote:choof did fine and cleared himself as town

The hell he did. If anything his replacement request made him look worse, not better.

For the record; Town don't typically need to angle shoot on outside the game stuff as a cornerstone of their scum case on someone. That is probably about 20x more common than scum replacement requests. I think once someone starts replacing out as scum they likely get black flagged so your logic fails under scrutiny.

Saul Goode · Post Post #720 (isolation #8) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:58 pm

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6683436#p6683436]post 719[/url], House wrote:Lovely, another player that thinks actions are magically alignment indicative.

???
How do you determine alignment outside of actions and motivations?

Saul Goode · Post Post #728 (isolation #9) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:49 pm

Cute move, trying to twist my words btw.

Strong reaction to an innocuous question. You are being a bit of a niggler, here. Motivation is based on something. I define that something as action. I think I have made it clear that I am looking for context and motivation in my post. If that wasn't clear to you, then let me state outright that MY motivation for asking the questions I did was to determine the motivations of OTHERS. Can we call this semantic argument done?

Yes?

Good.

Because I was wondering if you were going to address any of my observations/questions pertaining specifically to you or if you were just going to leave it at a pedantic statement with regards to your opinion on the summary of my work. And the later would be disconcerting.

Saul Goode · Post Post #732 (isolation #10) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:58 pm

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6683667#p6683667]post 730[/url], House wrote:Posturing is also telling.

I hope so. I hope it's telling you that I am less than satisfied with your response to my inquiry thus far.

Side note: Feel free to throw as many terms at me as you would like. You will find that I'm not often distracted by shiny objects and baseless accusations and pot shots. Cheers.

Saul Goode · Post Post #735 (isolation #11) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:03 pm

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6683680#p6683680]post 731[/url], House wrote:Now, have we derailed the thread enough, or do you plan to drag this out even more?

Feel free to hop back on the rails at your leisure. This can be done by merely responding to the points in my catch up post that relate to you.

Here, let me quote the pertinent bits for you:

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6683400#p6683400]post 714[/url], Saul Goode wrote:House: I have some concerns. Right off the bat I notice in 358 that you seem to be bullying Riblet for not being on your wagon? That's a fairly aggressive stance if you are Town since I would think you wouldn't want to be lynched. In 380 you piled on more by saying he's trying to avoid VCA. Kind of early for an accusation like that, isn't it? Don't you typically need a flip in the first place? What if Choof had been scum and he was the one that drove that wagon? Also, please don't claim scum as Town. If you are Town you are hurting me. And that makes me very sad. More on that at the bottom.

Saul Goode · Post Post #736 (isolation #12) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:05 pm

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6683710#p6683710]post 734[/url], oddmusic wrote:@ Saul: do you have any scumreads?

I have some scum leads. I'd really like to hear some responses from certain individuals before going too crazy because I didn't read the first 14 pages.

Saul Goode · Post Post #755 (isolation #13) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:58 am

In post 747, Kop wrote:This is another post, that I don't like, using the excuse of not being a very good scumhunter.

I read that post as Psyche saying, "I'm not a good Day 1 leader and I think we need one."

Saul Goode · Post Post #757 (isolation #14) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:02 am

In post 751, House wrote:Fucking annoying how some dumbass has to come clodding along whenever I'm trying to interact with somebody.

I'm not sure you've earned the courtesy. Not in my eyes, anyway.

Since we had our motivation discussion last night, what is your motivation in being evasive towards my questions and antagonistic in specific? I'm left wondering if you are trying to impede the scum hunting process, trying to show me you have a louder bark, or if you are just a generally unhelpful person by nature.

Saul Goode · Post Post #769 (isolation #15) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:19 am

In post 759, House wrote:
In post 757, Saul Goode wrote:
In post 751, House wrote:Fucking annoying how some dumbass has to come clodding along whenever I'm trying to interact with somebody.

I'm not sure you've earned the courtesy. Not in my eyes, anyway.

Since we had our motivation discussion last night, what is your motivation in being evasive towards my questions and antagonistic in specific? I'm left wondering if you are trying to impede the scum hunting process, trying to show me you have a louder bark, or if you are just a generally unhelpful person by nature.

Get used to it.

LOL

In post 762, House wrote:Translation: I don't care what an anti-town ass I'm being, I'm going to suck my thumb and pout.

Saul Goode · Post Post #771 (isolation #16) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:22 am

In post 770, House wrote:But I guess you're too blind to notice the obvious, aren't ya?

Nope. Not really,

VOTE: House

Saul Goode · Post Post #776 (isolation #17) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:27 am

In post 775, Kop wrote:That's not the way I read it. It can be interpreted as I'm not a good day 1 leader, or not a good day leader at all.

You may be right. We shall see.

Saul Goode · Post Post #780 (isolation #18) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:43 am

In post 201, tn5421 wrote:Yes, that's what I think.

tn - it would be great if you would contribute to the game. The few posts you have made have been extremely underwhelming.

Saul Goode · Post Post #782 (isolation #19) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:45 am

In post 779, SilverWolf wrote:Instead of calling me a dumb ass and someone who needs to learn to shut the fuck up when someone isn't talking to them and trying to teach me a lesson like I'm some dog not listening to you, you could of just asked me to stay out of it and continued your interaction and I would have stayed out of it.

You went off on me. You insulted me.

You will get no apology from me.

Do you think House has been demonstrating Town behavior?

Saul Goode · Post Post #792 (isolation #20) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:59 am

In post 787, SilverWolf wrote:OK, so all this proves is House is town which I already knew.

I'm moving on now.

No. It also gave me a better feel for you. This certainly didn't feel like a scum distancing interaction.
UNVOTE: House

I wanted to see if you would jump on a House wagon. Based on some posts you had made earlier, I would have come down on you like a bag of bricks if you had. So I will take your meta opinion into consideration as I attempt to resolve House's alignment. My early sense is that he strikes me as someone who likely plays abrasive Town. This is an easy meta to abuse, though. So I would encourage you to take that under advisement moving forward. In other words, don't Town clear him too quickly.

Saul Goode · Post Post #799 (isolation #21) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:07 am

I'm at page 10 now and I need to stop for a second. Jesus, Riblet. Dig in much? You need to evolve as a player and react to the game as new information presents itself. I can't tell if you are stubborn and foolish Town or really really bad scum. You need to let go of the kungfu grip you have on the Choof self vote and read some of the posts he made explaining it. While I agree with you that it isn't something *I* do as a player, that doesn't mean no Townie EVER does it and needs to be lynched for it. That's the very definition of a policy lynch and you are discrediting yourself by not acknowledging that fact. Wow.

Serious question; how much forum mafia experience do you have?

Saul Goode · Post Post #803 (isolation #22) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:28 am

In post 301, SilverWolf wrote:
In post 295, Riblet wrote:
2. It's scummy because
¹the point of a vote is to pressure somebody you think is scum or to lynch somebody who you think is scum. ²People aren't supposed to vote people they think or know is town
. You self voted and that means you aren't town.

Putting this in my ISO. Awesome point. I don't think choof is scum or you are but this is a great point to explaining to others why you don't self-vote and when this game is over, I want to use it in my next newbie I IC if applicable.

Let me do you both a favor, here. Context is everything. Sometimes you *do* vote someone you think or even KNOW is Town in order to set a trap. Look at what I just did with you and House, SilverWolf. I don't know House's alignment. I'm leaning towards Town. But I wasn't going to allow that read to interfere with an opportunity to see if I could get you to jump on his wagon for spurious reasons.

When I read Choof in ISO I admit that his posts looked like a mess and I thought he was a clown. Reading those posts in context? It's pretty clear to me what he was TRYING to do, even if the execution was terribly sloppy.

Someone recently asked if anyone had made any sense of Choof, I think TSO? Yeah. Outside of mod confirming Choof's alignment to me, he was playing the "loose cannon" part. Think Riggs from Lethal Weapon or Shawn Spencer from Psyche. You know the guy that tries to keep everyone off balance because he is the only one that knows what he's doing? That's what Choof was doing.

Saul Goode · Post Post #815 (isolation #23) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:19 am

In post 814, Riblet wrote:I honestly think choof was the scummiest person in the game and that's where my vote is staying. Saul also has done nothing to change my mind. In fact him criticizing choof himself is kinda scummy to me.

You *honestly* think Choof was the scummiest player in the game? HONESTLY? Okay. Give me your top two or three reasons that are NOT based on his self vote.

You claiming I've done nothing to change your mind is really just proving my point from earlier, you aren't evolving your reads. The fact that you come in and claim I'm criticizing my predecessor just demonstrates that you aren't reading the thread. Sure, when I replaced in I mentioned that my slot looked terrible in ISO. But look about 5 posts up and you will see that my opinion changed after reading the first 15 pages and seeing his posts in context. And while I don't use his methods or agree with some of the stuff he did, that doesn't mean I don't understand what he was trying to do anymore OR that I haven't seen several players just like him in the past.

Sticking to a stale read and digging in is a bad look. I also have meta information on you that suggests that you don't like people voting for replacement players, don't I?

VOTE: Riblet

I've given you enough outs and enough benefit of the doubt.

Saul Goode · Post Post #816 (isolation #24) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:21 am

@Riblet

- Who are your top 2 scum reads not named Choof? That shady character has got to have scum mates, right?

Saul Goode · Post Post #824 (isolation #25) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:42 am

In post 817, Riblet wrote:
In post 815, Saul Goode wrote:Give me your top two or three reasons that are NOT based on his self vote.

I already have. Read my iso

I feel like your ISO might give me a tummy ache.
And I'm not the one being wagoned.
I think maybe you should consider just answering the question in the simplest terms possible so I can clearly understand you.

Saul Goode · Post Post #829 (isolation #26) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:01 am

In post 825, Riblet wrote:Also a lot has happened since I said I was going to vote house, I have solidified scum reads on other people so no need to vote him at this point.

Can you elucidate and/or expound upon any of these solidified scum reads?

I just read your ISO. I come away with neither that impression nor any idea why you thought Choof was scummy outside of self voting. I obviously need your help.

Saul Goode · Post Post #835 (isolation #27) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:06 am

Here's my problem...

I entered this into Siri:

In post 826, Riblet wrote:Sorry, I've stated my reasons more than once so it can't be that hard.

The results were as expected. First I was given a list of 3 or 4 rib shacks within 5 miles of my current location. Next I was offered a link to an SNL skit that had a Rotten Tomatoes rating of 1% fresh. Finally, the actual text was translated thus:

Siri wrote:I have forgotten the reasons I had fabricated for explaining my vote. Please do not ask me to restate them or I will be exposed.

I have Siri for my super secret iPhone 8. She is quite advanced so I believe her.

Saul Goode · Post Post #842 (isolation #28) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:12 am

In post 832, Psyche wrote:I don't see how riblet's behavior could have garnered him more votes if you guys are lynching based on perceived scumhood rather than annoyance.

My vote isn't based solely on the "death tunnel" alluded to. It's based on a continued trend of refusal to evolve in any manner whatsoever. I conceded that this doesn't make him lock scum, however it's a strong scum indicator and the best information I have to work with currently.

I feel like even if this is a mislynch all we are losing is a player that has proven they can not adapt to a changing game landscape and will be of no use to us towards end game or could possibly jeopardize the entire game with demonstrably poor play. And that is acceptable collateral damage given that we will have some VCA and wagonomics to inform future lynches and night actions.

Do you have a better alternative or a strong reason to believe Riblet is Town?

Saul Goode · Post Post #845 (isolation #29) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:16 am

In post 840, Riblet wrote:
In post 829, Saul Goode wrote:Can you elucidate and/or expound upon any of these solidified scum reads?

Tn is active lurking IMO. Not scum hunting and doesn't really seem to be trying to figure out the game.

Psyche is trying too hard to not rustle feathers and appease others.there was one post in particular that really game off fake and I don't see town making it. I'll post it later cause I'm on a walk then I have a deadline to meet for this afternoon

This is actually a good post and I agree with both of these points. I will add that I find Psyche is opposing your lynch for unknown reasons. So if you are Town? This would look to me like scum trying to find an excuse to avoid being on a mislynch.

I really wish you would explain to me what your problem was with Choof outside of the self vote, though. I read your ISO. I didn't see you make any points not directly tied to this PL.

Saul Goode · Post Post #848 (isolation #30) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:21 am

In post 847, Riblet wrote:Tell me how me trying to Lynch my scum read is poor play.

Trying to lynch a scum read isn't poor play.
Refusing to evolve your reads as new information is unveiled is poor play.
Refusing to expound on what makes that person your top scum suspect is poor play.
Refusing to budge off of a wagon that you know will not go through is poor play.

ALL of that poor play makes perfect sense if you are scum, though since there would be valid reasons for each.

Saul Goode · Post Post #851 (isolation #31) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:23 am

Tell me something, Riblet; what is your publicly stated opinion on people who vote for vacated slots. Pretend I've already read that opinion recently.

Saul Goode · Post Post #860 (isolation #32) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:32 am

In post 849, Riblet wrote:Basically him trying to appease 1. odd, the self vote, his reaction to getting votes was not what I'd expect from town, his anger felt fake, his replacement felt like an attempt to gain town cred. I use that last one as a reason because I have personally seen at least 2 players on this site use that very tactic.

Better?

1. I'll take a look at point 1 again.
2. YOU CAN'T USE SELF VOTE
3. His reaction to getting votes is precisely why you should have reevaluated your read on Choof. He did a very good job of explaining himself in post 183.
4. Obviously it wasn't fake frustration. He did replace out.
5. That's angle shooting. FWIW I have personally replaced out of 3 maybe 4 games as Town due to unforeseen circumstances or a personality conflict that had devolved into personal attacks but have never replaced out of a game as scum. So this isn't even an accurate tell.

Saul Goode · Post Post #867 (isolation #33) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:37 am

In post 855, Riblet wrote:In theory though if a player is being voted and has the opportunity to defend themselves and replaces out. That's scummy

Except I believe you were the only one calling him scum? Do you think you are intimidating enough as a player that your single vote was enough to scare someone into quitting the game so someone else could swoop in and save the slot? OR do you think occams razor applies and he is simply a newer player that didn't like having his tactics questioned and decided to replace out instead? Because, frankly, I see a lot of him in you with the way you are presenting yourself as upset at being called a VI and threatening to report people to the mod for hurting your feelings.

Saul Goode · Post Post #872 (isolation #34) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:41 am

In post 866, SilverWolf wrote:choof replaced out of several games

This is good info. Did he replace out of a bunch of active games at the same time?

Saul Goode · Post Post #879 (isolation #35) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:47 am

In post 873, House wrote:
In post 872, Saul Goode wrote:
In post 866, SilverWolf wrote:choof replaced out of several games

This is good info. Did he replace out of a bunch of active games at the same time?

Stop talking about this. It goes directly against site rules.

Oh. Sorry. I'm not actually discussing ongoing games. I just meant if he rage quit the entire site the day I replaced in that would be good to know that it isn't related to this game. This is the problem when trying to combat angle shooting. It's a slippery slope.

Saul Goode · Post Post #883 (isolation #36) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:50 am

In post 881, Psyche wrote:
In post 858, Psyche wrote:
i mean, look at how much he cares about how we're evaluating his town play!

i wanna highlight this

I acknowledge you highlight. Now can you explain it to me? What are you trying to say here?

Saul Goode · Post Post #896 (isolation #37) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:00 am

In post 889, Psyche wrote:scum riblet wouldn't take accusations that he's a troll or a VI as negatively because they offer clear alternative explanations for why he's playing the way he's playing that don't imply that he should die

Do you guys use the term appeal to emotion? There's no way of validating if Riblet is being earnest or not when he portrays himself as upset at something as insignificant as being called a VI.

Saul Goode · Post Post #917 (isolation #38) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:15 am

In post 914, Psyche wrote:similarly saul asked me some questions before and he didn't really care that i didn't answer them

I feel like NO ONE is answering my questions unless I ask them three times. And I've got better things to do with my time than play follow up.

But why don't you take a second to answer now?

Saul Goode · Post Post #925 (isolation #39) » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:22 am

In post 921, SilverWolf wrote:Riblet is not but too many people think he is.

Riblet is the definition of null. But he needed pressure to get him to reengage in the thread outside of rehashing the same lame argument over and over again.

UNVOTE: Riblet

I'm considering an Ozgin vote. Was kind of hoping to see him make a couple of posts first, though.

Saul Goode · Post Post #976 (isolation #40) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:43 am

In post 948, Ozgin wrote:So I decided to start my reading and thoughts on this game with my current scumread on Psyche, and hot damn was that fruitful (in my opinion).

I can't tell if this entire post is a joke or not. Please confirm?

Saul Goode · Post Post #977 (isolation #41) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:50 am

In post 953, Psyche wrote:the day my role becomes common knowledge i want you to remember your shit case and apologize to the town for it

It better be a GOOD Town PR. I was thinking about rolefishing the crap out of you for trying to rolefish SW. And CONTINUING that trend. Makes me want to throw a shoe at my screen.

Saul Goode · Post Post #982 (isolation #42) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:54 am

In post 980, Psyche wrote:sw derailed a solid wagon by softclaiming a power role

I don't think she softclaimed.

In post 980, Psyche wrote:i'm sort of surprised that you're petty enough to do an antitown thing just because someone else did the antitown thing

I threatened to do an antitown thing. There's a difference. Also, in the interests of not beating around the bush, let me just say that if you are scum I know what you were trying to do and if you are Town I know what you were trying to do but that you didn't go about it the right way. Instead of assuming it was a softclaim and rolefishing, you could have just as easily asked her what made her so sure. See how that's not a rolefish but accomplishes the same goal?

Which reminds me; did she ever answer that?

@SW -

Did you ever explain what made you so sure Kop was Town at the time the wagon was building? I don't remember seeing that.

Saul Goode · Post Post #984 (isolation #43) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:09 am

In post 983, Psyche wrote:"It better be a GOOD town PR" is still rolefishing
but whatevs!

No. It's a warning. If you are scum and fakeclaim later it better be a GOOD fakeclaim. I'm not going to buy that you had your hackles raised as a BG.

Saul Goode · Post Post #986 (isolation #44) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:23 am

In post 985, Psyche wrote:wat

You read it. I said it.

Saul Goode · Post Post #990 (isolation #45) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:37 am

In post 988, Riblet wrote:a warning is not something town would give imo

With you in the game, Riblet, I didn't feel like I could afford to be subtle.

Also, why would I need to talk to my scum buddy in thread? Why not just chat in our scum QT?

Saul Goode · Post Post #1003 (isolation #46) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:44 am

In post 994, SilverWolf wrote:
In post 993, Kop wrote:Bang on the money. Myself and Silverwolf, are both town masons.

Confirming this.

Yeah. This was pretty obvious. Which is why Psyche was being a dolt to keep pushing this. Only so many subtle ways to say back off...

Saul Goode · Post Post #1004 (isolation #47) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:47 am

In post 1002, Psyche wrote:But converting that anger into belief that I'm scum - that's stupid.

Yeah. But she has a right to call you out. You forced her hand and made her hard claim. Having a *bit* of WIFOM left for the scum team is the right play on Day 1 unless one of them are being run up. This isn't rocket surgery.

So what was the point, Psyche? You got your hard claim. Do you feel like it has helped?

Saul Goode · Post Post #1011 (isolation #48) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:53 am

Alright, SW. It's in the open now. Who looks the worst to you for the Kop wagon?

Saul Goode · Post Post #1012 (isolation #49) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:53 am

In post 1009, Riblet wrote:Now we know scum probably have daytalk

What's daytalk?

Saul Goode · Post Post #1020 (isolation #50) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:58 am

In post 1018, Psyche wrote:Course my goal was explicitly not a fullclaim from SW but just a vouch that we could hold her to.

It looked like you were pushing for a hard claim.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1021 (isolation #51) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:59 am

In post 1019, Riblet wrote:So with confirmation now, TSO goes higher on my list as possible scum.

TSO and Psyche both. And weakens my Townish read on House somewhat.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1023 (isolation #52) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:01 am

In post 1012, Saul Goode wrote:What's daytalk?

Saul Goode · Post Post #1029 (isolation #53) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:06 am

In post 1025, Psyche wrote:This scummy-looking player gets voted for; someone says "He's town. Trust me"; the player is still scummy looking. When the someone says "Oh, that was just my read on him", I'm confused still think that player's scummy looking and this other person's derailed the wagon on them.

SMFH

And what happens if SW gets NKed and flips Mason? Do we forget about this interaction with Kop when Kop claims to be her Mason buddy and someone counters him?? It was just a dumb PR to chase.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1031 (isolation #54) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:07 am

In post 1027, SilverWolf wrote:It's where scum can talk in their PT day or night instead of just at night.

So your scum can only talk at night? That's different.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1036 (isolation #55) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:10 am

In post 1033, Psyche wrote:I don't see why you'd think SW was likely to be NKed if you think her WIFOM was doing anything but confusing people like me.

I think you were the only one confused.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1038 (isolation #56) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:12 am

In post 1035, SilverWolf wrote:I will tell you the one time I had it as scum in a game, it was a massive benefit to us.

I've only played on sites where scum could coordinate day and night through quicktopics.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1040 (isolation #57) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:16 am

In post 1039, Psyche wrote:You said before that the WIFOM was doing good for town. But now you say that you don't think it did anything to anyone but me? Do you not see how circuitous your line of reasoning is???

LOL - nice try. There's a difference between hinting that you MAY be a Mason and actually hard claiming. It's like the difference between hinting that I MAY put a bullet in your head tonight and hard claiming Vig. See the difference?

Saul Goode · Post Post #1041 (isolation #58) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:18 am

Awe man... I feel kind of dirty for the method that lead me to this but if Riblet is Town I think House might be scum.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1048 (isolation #59) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:27 am

In post 1045, Psyche wrote:Why are you ignoring my point that your claim "I think you were the only one confused" is false? Do you only quote the parts of posts you feel like you can reply to?

I think it was well covered. You were the only one pushing for a hard claim pages later. Everyone else was willing to leave the WIFOM out there. Hence: you were the only one confused.

If scum bought the WIFOM or not is irrelevant. As long as it isn't confirmed in thread there is ALWAYS some element of doubt. ANY amount of doubt could have been helpful. You also just limited both SW and Kop in how they can play their cards.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1052 (isolation #60) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:34 am

That's a bunch of crap. Scum aren't likely to waste their NA's on Masons. They *might* have on softclaiming Masons, though...

Saul Goode · Post Post #1055 (isolation #61) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:37 am

In post 1051, Psyche wrote:The two claims contradict one another and are just one obvious reason your position on my alliance is ridiculous.

In post 1053, Psyche wrote:You're moving the goalposts and making a false equivalence.

Okay. I'm sorry you interpret things this way. I can't force you to understand.

In post 1054, Psyche wrote:Scum don't NK masons? Really?

LOL. I think we are done here.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1062 (isolation #62) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:49 am

In post 1059, Psyche wrote:You're doing that thing again where you avoid commenting on the parts of posts that you are incapable of making coherent responses to, Saul.

Yeah. I'm not going to answer either of those questions. I'll just hope your current play and mindset is common for this player base. I don't need to hand out free advice for how scum should be playing their cards.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1066 (isolation #63) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:54 am

That's okay. Town will forgive me when I prevent mislynches and find scum.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1077 (isolation #64) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:12 am

Psyche. Just stop what you are doing.

Who are your two biggest scum reads NOW and why?

Saul Goode · Post Post #1080 (isolation #65) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:13 am

SW - Have you reevaluated your House read? I can't recall why he jumped on the Kop wagon in context. But between that and whipping up Riblet? I'm starting to think he might be the scum we are looking for.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1081 (isolation #66) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:14 am

Kop and SW. Just drop it with Psyche. You don't have to explain yourselves. And this conversation is a waste of our time.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1085 (isolation #67) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:19 am

Psych! Stop!

Nobody cares. They are Town.

Who are your top 2 scum suspects and why?

Saul Goode · Post Post #1088 (isolation #68) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:22 am

In post 1087, Psyche wrote:So what do I do as the guy they're voting, huh?

Oh. I missed that they were voting for you. Carry on.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1089 (isolation #69) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:23 am

In post 1087, Psyche wrote:I want tn dead. Fuck #2.

What's your read on House?

Saul Goode · Post Post #1092 (isolation #70) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:29 am

In post 1091, T S O wrote:"TSO and Psyche voted Town, they're more likely to be scum."

I would love for you to try to back this statement up - it literally makes no sense.

3 people tried to wagon a Townie. How much back up do you think I need for suggesting there is likely scum on the wagon?

Saul Goode · Post Post #1134 (isolation #71) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:41 pm

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6689908#p6689908]post 1125[/url], Psyche wrote:if it was
so
obvious then i didn't do anything harmful

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6689913#p6689913]post 1126[/url], Psyche wrote:If it wasn't obvious then that explains why I did it

SMFH.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

OBVIOUS

AND

CONFIRMED

!!

YOU MADE A DUMB PLAY BY FORCING SOMETHING

OBVIOUS

TO BE

CONFIRMED

.

ACCEPT IT AND MOVE ON BECAUSE YOU AREN'T GOING TO CONVINCE

ANYONE

THAT YOU DID US ANY FAVORS.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1137 (isolation #72) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:45 pm

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6690007#p6690007]post 1135[/url], elusive wrote:wow all caps all the way like whoah

{pretending to be Psyche here if it weren't Obvious}

I'm trying to confirm the obvious. Because he's missing it. Or pretending to, anyway.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1161 (isolation #73) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:32 pm

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6690143#p6690143]post 1160[/url], SilverWolf wrote:Psyche and I need to either work this out or I will replace out

I'm serious.

Nah. It's clear to everyone that HE is the problem. If we can't find a better target I'll help you lynch him just to remove any doubt.

Who else do you have as a top scum read again? Ozgin? Also, did you ever reevaluate your read on House?

Saul Goode · Post Post #1163 (isolation #74) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:35 pm

In post 1160, SilverWolf wrote:I'm serious.

This will make things easier for everyone.

I am going to make it obvious that I am the vig. And I'm going to shoot Psyche in the face tonight.

BUT, I won't bother confirming that I'm the vig until after the mod shows Psyche's flip.

He'll learn a hard lesson through tough love about the difference between obvious and confirmed and that will be a valuable take away going forward in his mafia career.

No charge.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1176 (isolation #75) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:05 pm

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6690246#p6690246]post 1172[/url], Psyche wrote:in conjunction with Saul's insistence on rubbing the whole situation in

What? I wasn't rubbing anything in. You basically just admitted to trolling. How would I know you were trolling vs not understanding? My responses likely looked arrogant to you because you actually knew what I was talking about.

FTR - I was making a point myself. ALSO, I was trying to get the game moving. That horse was dead. It was like arguing with Riblet.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1180 (isolation #76) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:09 pm

SW - Do I come across as arrogant to you?

Saul Goode · Post Post #1188 (isolation #77) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:17 pm

Psyche - are you trying to appeal to my emotions?

I'm a lawyer.

I don't have emotions.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1193 (isolation #78) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:28 pm

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6690351#p6690351]post 1190[/url], Psyche wrote:you picked out your alt's schtick really well

That's sweet.

I'm still going to shoot you tonight but I'll do it with love. And a heart shaped bullet.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1196 (isolation #79) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:34 pm

In post 1125, Psyche wrote:if it was
so
obvious then i didn't do anything harmful

In post 1126, Psyche wrote:If it wasn't obvious then that explains why I did it

In post 1135, elusive wrote:wow all caps all the way like whoah

{pretending to be Psyche here if it weren't Obvious}

In post 1160, SilverWolf wrote:elusive, I really like you, I think you are a cool person, but Psyche and I need to either work this out or I will replace out

I'm serious.

In post 1168, Psyche wrote:Saul, you're really arrogant. Even when you try to be a helpful person, you can't help but do it with this attitude of superiority that keeps you from really experiencing actual compassion. You only know how to look from above.

In post 1172, Psyche wrote:Okay, so I lost my cool and took it all out on you in some sort of extended OMGUS. It started with ozkin and just snowballed and I broke every single principle I planned on outright advocating this game. I didn't like the way choof was just pushed out, and it felt like the same things behind his replacement were just repeating over and over again with riblet and then with tn and ozkin and finally with your claim/vote in conjunction with Saul's insistence on rubbing the whole situation in I just decided to press buttons that I've gotten too good at pressing over my time on the internet. I didn't want to make a point, even though that's how it turned out. I was demoralized and lashing out.

In post 1181, Psyche wrote:well i could be but i'm taking back the claim
*jazz hands* mysteryyy *jazz hands*

In post 1190, Psyche wrote:you picked out your alt's schtick really well

LOL - I think ellusive is the only one that gets it. It's like having my first inside joke with a MafiaScummer.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1197 (isolation #80) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:35 pm

Sorry about all the quotes. It's this silly proxy server problem again.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1200 (isolation #81) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:36 pm

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6690388#p6690388]post 1195[/url], SilverWolf wrote:Take out tn, Ozgin, or Bookitty.

Okay.

VOTE: Ozgin

Saul Goode · Post Post #1204 (isolation #82) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:39 pm

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6690404#p6690404]post 1199[/url], Psyche wrote:is it a reference to the tv show that i am not caught up on because if it is i will catch up on it right now if you do not do that

Nope.

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6690302#p6690302]post 1182[/url], elusive wrote:oh and saul, I play every game regardless of the filthy role pm decreed by rng\fate as vig. its the best.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1207 (isolation #83) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:43 pm

I understand the reference but not how you are applying it. Would scum be the tea party?

Saul Goode · Post Post #1208 (isolation #84) » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:48 pm

BTW

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6688846#p6688846]post 1067[/url], Psyche wrote:Oh yeah? What's your plan for keeping me alive until Night, then?

Saul Goode · Post Post #1227 (isolation #85) » Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:44 am

I'm going to be /LA until Monday. Play nice.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1639 (isolation #86) » Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:53 am

I'm still LA until tomorrow and posting from phone so this will be short.

I would vote Wrong Song. Many have already pointed out the scumminess of the replace in post. Showed a complete lack of game state and thread understanding. I will add that his read on my slot looks like someone trying to build a case to match a read. This can happen with either alignment but tends to happen more with scum fabricating a case. Plus, so much confirmation bias. Wrong Song is also showing an inordinate amount of hostility towards a confirmed Townie in SW. Does not read as genuine.

INTENT TO PUT WRONG SONG AT L-1

I'm not putting teams together but I would vote Wrong Song, Ozgin, or TN.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1717 (isolation #87) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:18 am

In post 1697, Wrong Song wrote:Part of me believes that it could be a Serial Killer claim.

In post 1698, Psyche wrote:ooh, serial killer
if saul is nk immune that would almost make sense

If I were an NK immune SK? This game would be all but over.

But seriously, not great to speculate about SK's until there are two confirmed NK's, yeah? Worry about this tomorrow if I can't explain the 2nd kill as an obvious vig shot... I'll probably use it on one of you two, to be honest.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1719 (isolation #88) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:26 am

@Wrong Song - Why did you say you had read the whole game earlier? You realize that a lot of the pressure on you is directly as a result of that statement? Because you coming to the conclusions you did wouldn't have made sense if you had read the whole game. Now you are claiming you didn't read all of even Riblet's posts AND that you didn't read my claim? Those are some pretty big events. I was also going to challenge you on your claim that I was trash talking my predecessor but I'll drop that point since you obviously didn't actually read the thread. Actually, you claim you DID read my ISO. Do you still think I was trash talking Choof?

Saul Goode · Post Post #1720 (isolation #89) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:27 am

In post 1718, SilverWolf wrote:Saul-Can I ask you not to use it on Psyche?

Of course, my dear. But no promises. Totally depends on how he handles end of day...

Saul Goode · Post Post #1724 (isolation #90) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:04 am

In post 1721, Psyche wrote:if you do shoot me, it's your mistake, not mine

Which reminds me. "Ms. Steak" would be an excellent name for an alt.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1725 (isolation #91) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:07 am

Reserved.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1726 (isolation #92) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:13 am

In post 1723, SilverWolf wrote:Also, in a mini like this, the chance of there being a vig and a SK are pretty slim.

Yeah. But what they are trying to say is that I could be an SK fake claiming Vig. That way I could go about killing at random without worrying about being SK hunted. And while that makes good sense in theory? In practicality I would have also announced myself to the scum team. And that's not such a great idea. Plus, if we were in a situation where we found all the scum in short order and the game was continuing? I'd never survive LYLO/final 3. So it's basically something cute that people say just as a way to illustrate that they believe the claim but aren't happy about it.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1729 (isolation #93) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:25 am

In post 1727, Psyche wrote:No, I didn't say you could be an SK fake claiming Vig; I said the opposite.

Okay. I guess I missed the sarcasm. But you agree that's what Wrong Song was saying, right?

Saul Goode · Post Post #1732 (isolation #94) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:43 am

1731 is a good post.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1738 (isolation #95) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:25 am

In post 1734, oddmusic wrote:@ Saul Goode: What's your concern with Psyche? I don't think I've seen you explain it clearly.

Because I haven't. Have you seen my most recent scum list? Check that then fill in the blanks.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1741 (isolation #96) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:30 am

Oh. One point I have against Psyche? He has been softclaiming a nebulous PR. This isn't a rolefish. This is a statement of fact. Hinting at having a PR [repeatedly] but not committing to anything that can be vetted is pretty much just an appeal to fear.

I'm not too worried about him today as he isn't in the lynch pool. But that's something that always makes me cautious about town reading a person.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1744 (isolation #97) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:02 am

Like I said; I continue to be happy voting Ozgin [where I'm currently voting], TN, or Wrong Song. My only concern with voting Wrong Song is confirmation bias and OMGUS but I still think he objectively looks terrible.

Saul Goode · Post Post #1745 (isolation #98) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:02 am

In post 1743, Psyche wrote:oh but when sw does it she's playing a wifom melody

Oh stop it, you...

Saul Goode · Post Post #1748 (isolation #99) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:05 am

In post 1746, T S O wrote:Yes, let's go defuse a really solid wagon and run up Ozgin. Maybe he's a PR too.

Who are you voting? Wrong Song? I'd be happy to join you. But we have lots of time and I'd like to see both WS and Ozgin come in and post.

Saul Goode · Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:20 am

In post 1750, SilverWolf wrote:

Saul Goode · Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:40 am

@Wrong Song - Any last words or reasons we should think you are town?

Saul Goode · Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:57 am

It's stuff like this that makes me nervous:

In post 1756, tn5421 wrote:I'm getting the <
LESS CHAT MORE SPLAT
> vibe right now.

Is there ANYBODY opposed to a Wrong Song lynch right now?

Saul Goode · Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:30 pm

May I please be the first to VOTE: Ozgin and officially ask wtf?

Saul Goode · Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:51 pm

Where I come from vig holsters N1 after a mislynch unless you KNOW you are going to hit scum.

It is to be determined if Ozgin is scum or played dumb.

Saul Goode · Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:12 pm

In post 1821, House wrote:What was your wtf about?

Oh I saw his response before day end but I didn't get a chance to ask "wtf" before the thread locked. I felt empty inside.

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:37 am

In post 1832, Kop wrote:it appears that there is a Serial Killer in this game

I'm not sure why you think this. There was only one kill last night. Unless you have been talking to SW and agree that a stabbing indicates a SK? If this is the case, the mod made it clear that flavor is purely flavor and does not reveal any game related information. Otherwise, the only way to explain a single kill would be if both the SK and the mafia targeted Psyche. By your logic regarding flavor then, Psych should have had a flavor saying he was stabbed AND shot or something like that.

I would advise not reading too much into the flavor and just assume that Psych was a mafia kill and there is no SK.

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:37 am

In post 1840, Kop wrote:Is there any more answers to my post that you quoted from?

Did I miss something? I think your only concern was that I could potentially be an SK or that this game wouldn't make sense with an SK and a Vig.

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:38 am

In post 1843, Bookitty wrote:If you have any questions for me, I'll be around (more this weekend than now, but I'm checking in every so often).

Would you mind putting together a little list of the remaining players and give us your impression of your reads, how you came to them, and any questions or concerns you have about them? That would be stellar!

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:48 am

In post 1848, T S O wrote:This may have seemed like a joke - it was not.

Oh. I did think it was a joke. The answer to your concern/outrage was already addressed here:

In post 1819, Saul Goode wrote:Where I come from vig holsters N1 after a mislynch unless you KNOW you are going to hit scum.

It is to be determined if Ozgin is scum or played dumb.

Over the years, I have come to the realization that self-preservation is not a scum tell. And this is coming from someone that wanted to see Ozgin swing.

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:49 am

In post 1849, T S O wrote:Because no town player here would protect Ozgin, so if that shot disappeared, Ozgin was quite probably protected by his team's Doctor.

If I shot at Ozgin and missed I would absolutely announce that in thread. I did not.

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:54 am

In post 1852, T S O wrote:So you didn't shoot?

That does not seem like optimal play at all.

And if Ozgin is just VI trying to self preserve?

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:56 am

In post 1853, T S O wrote:If you feel withholding information here could be pro-town, you can do that and I won't question it.

I see no scenario where withholding a missed shot on the counterwagon to a Town flip would be pro-town.

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:08 am

In post 1859, House wrote:You say that you don't take a vig shot on N1 if the lynch is on town.

Would you use the same excuse reason if the D2 lynch is on town?

Nope. I would absolutely shoot N2 because you have to at that point. Comes down to better odds than the 33% chance TSO is pitching and comes with an extra Day of VCA.

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:11 am

In post 1857, T S O wrote:I meant in any scenario at all.

Gotcha. No. I won't be advertising bullet count if that's what you mean.

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:13 am

In post 1860, SilverWolf wrote:Actually, since Psyche claimed PR, that leaves 8.

You're assuming I believed Psyche's PR hinting. FTR, I did not.

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:16 am

In post 1860, SilverWolf wrote:Yeah Saul you screwed up in two ways:

You didn't ask us for opinions for vig shots at day's end.

Well... yeah but I thought I'd have time for that. I wasn't expecting you to put him at L-1 and Ozgin to hammer right away. I was expecting to see a claim and have an evaluation period where we discussed it and got his final reads and all that. THEN I could have felt the thread for vig shot ideas in scenarios where he flipped Town or Scum. So I don't think that was a screw up on my end.

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:45 am

Oh. I never believe vengeful Townie claims. But I'm not worried about House being scum so I'm not going to let a pro-town fake claim bother me.

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:21 am

In post 1869, House wrote:In this scenario, who would you vig?

If Ozgin winds up getting lynched and flips scum, who would you vig?

Depends on VCA, obviously. I'd also HOPE to get some discussion going before hammer to sort it out.

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:23 am

In post 1871, Saul Goode wrote:
In post 1869, House wrote:In this scenario, who would you vig?

If Ozgin winds up getting lynched and flips scum, who would you vig?

Depends on VCA, obviously. I'd also HOPE to get some discussion going before hammer to sort it out.

And to expand on this; I'd rather not speculate until after our lynch target is secure because I don't need scum knowing if they are in the clear or not. I could absolutely lie to you and pick a name out of a hat but I don't feel like that would be helpful later in the game.

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:27 am

Okay, I will play with you a little bit because your list made me chuckle. Pretty sure I'm not killing myself or confirmed masons, though.

In post 1869, House wrote:Let's say Ozgin is lynched and flips town. That's three townies down in 2 days, bringing us to...

T S O

SilverWolf

Boonskiies
House
Bookitty
oddmusic
tn5421

Saul Goode

elusive

Kop

In this scenario, who would you vig?

So that shrinks my vig pool to 7. 3/7 is almost as good as a coin flip. VCA, I think, will give me better than 50/50 odds. I'd prefer to leave it at that.

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:08 am

In post 1877, House wrote:Why did my list make you chuckle?

Because you didn't remove my name, for starters? Unless you thought I'd consider shooting myself? Also for not removing the masons. I thought my post was clear.

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:09 am

In post 1878, House wrote:So, what do you think would be helpful right now?

An Ozgin interrogation. The longer he stays quiet the more likely he is today's lynch. I think that should probably be advertised to him.

Saul Goode · Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:30 pm

In post 1882, T S O wrote:See, it keeps feeling off to me that you walked in and immediately voted Ozgin, in your first post of the day, but you ...didn't shoot him.

My mind literally cannot process the depths of the thought process which led to this sequence of events.

You just need to trust that I had good reason not to shoot him. You also need to differentiate between willingness to kill and pressuring for information. I was pretty clear in the post after my vote what my thought process was, I think. It was a stupid hammer but stupid =/= scum. And I wasn't willing to take the chance and put us down 2 Town. I'd also like to drop this conversation before I have to do something stupid like claim 1x or something.

Saul Goode · Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:26 am

In post 2076, Aeronaut wrote:
Prodding Saul Goode.

I'm here. Getting caught up. Weekends are tough for me. So don't expect a ton of activity on Saturdays or Sundays.

Saul Goode · Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:29 am

In post 2084, SilverWolf wrote:Ozgin, Boon, one of tn or TSO with an outside chance of Bookitty.

FTR - this is where I'm at as well.

Ozgin not coming in and presenting some Town posts for us is really making it difficult for me to find my way out of this tunnel. I have reasons for thinking he could be Town, but I really want him to tell me them.

Saul Goode · Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:31 am

I will also say that TN and Ozgin both have points in so far as we haven't done a very good job of enunciating our "cases" on them short of POE. This is something I'm hoping to rectify when I have a bit more time to dig in. But I REALLY *REALLY* want Ozgin to post some reasonable content first.

Saul Goode · Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:22 am

In post 2101, House wrote:Apathy tends to seep in when there is a lull in activity

The apathy monster sure has taken a bite out of me...

It's hard to play when the person you are voting won't engage you in discussion.

Saul Goode · Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:23 am

Two questions for the MS vets:

1. Do you guys have a theory called "too scummy to be scum" or "too wolfy to be a wolf?"
2. Do you think that would apply to Ozgin?

Saul Goode · Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:12 am

In post 2106, House wrote:Example: viewtopic.php?f=83&t=61123 (Note BBT's play/interactions/flip)

I'm sorry, who is BBT?

Saul Goode · Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:07 am

Alright. I'm not going to move my vote - mostly because he can't be bothered to come in and make a compelling alternate lynch case. I'm just getting the feeling that his lynch doesn't have much resistance and I'd expect at least SOME push back if he was scum. Am I wrong?

Saul Goode · Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:54 am

In post 2113, House wrote:So do you think both Ozgin and Boonskiies are scum?

I'm not confident Ozgin is scum but I am confident that he will not/does not help Town.

Boon is honestly just a random shot in the POE for me. I think I need to take a closer look at how the Day 1 lynch went down.

Saul Goode · Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:52 am

In post 2120, House wrote:If you're not confident that Ozgin is scum, why are you still voting him?

Because - the rest of the sentence. It's pretty much moot now that he's replacing out, obviously.

In post 2120, House wrote:Why have you not posted any reads at all, for that matter? I'm seeing tons of questions, but no analysis today.

Because the pace is too damn slow in here. I can't build any WIM. I've also been busy IRL so haven't had the time to really digest this game. But even after all this time we STILL have over a week left in the day phase. All I need is a few hours one day to put things in order. That hasn't happened yet.

Not the answer you are looking for, I know, but that's the deal.

Saul Goode · Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:44 am

In post 2187, Kop wrote:it's just frustrating sitting here, put a wagon on someone and they don't post, and what will make the whole thing worse, is if they flip town, they've done fuck all to help the towns case in lynching scum, and no doubt the old cliche "you wouldn't have believed me so might as well lynch me" How that goes towards your wincon is beyond me.

This is exactly where I was at with Ozgin.

I'll hammer Boon if he can't be bothered to respond to the cases on him and offer us a better lynch option.

Saul Goode · Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:46 am

You know what? Gut check time.

VOTE: Boonskiies

Hammering Boon without allowing him to claim or defend himself is a scum claim and I will shoot you tonight.

Saul Goode · Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:48 am

Just in case you didn't hear me,

Boon is at L-1

.

Hammering Boon without allowing him to claim or defend himself is a scum claim and

I will shoot you tonight

.

Saul Goode · Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:49 am

In post 2175, elusive wrote:To be honest, I've hammered or put down Boonskiies twice and been wrong both times. However, his playstyle is not beneficial to town and he either needs to come back here and claim or I don't know get his priorities in order.

If Boon ends up getting lynched and flips Town I will be shooting you because of this post.

Saul Goode · Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:53 am

SW - you like my NA choices?

Saul Goode · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:23 am

In post 2194, SilverWolf wrote:
In post 2193, Saul Goode wrote:SW - you like my NA choices?

Which ones? elusive or if someone lolhammers?

Yes.

In post 2194, SilverWolf wrote:What do you think of tn or Ozgin slot?

My understanding was the poe pointed to Ozgin/TN/Boon. So I'm good anywhere in here. I was okay with Elusive - mostly null but nothing outwardly scummy - until that post.

Saul Goode · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:24 am

In post 2195, T S O wrote:Vig Ozgin or numbers. Preferably numbers.

Possibly. Like I said, depends on the flip and how people got on or off the wagons.

Saul Goode · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:39 am

In post 2200, House wrote:I bet he won't.

Guns are scary. And I usually shoot Townies. So...

Saul Goode · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:45 am

Guys.

Relax.

I know how to play my role. Don't need any help.

Saul Goode · Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:42 am

In post 2220, House wrote:I think he should narrow it down to 3-4 possibilities so he's not given an out if none of those die

I think my shot will be pretty obvious versus a scum kill. For example, I won't kill either of the masons or myself.

Saul Goode · Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:53 am

In post 2241, SilverWolf wrote:I think House is pretty firmly town and would be a bad vig choice IMO.

If I shot House and he flipped Town? I'd have to deal with the implications of that. Same goes for any other shot I take. So I'm just going to do my best to shoot scum and if I miss have a very convincing argument why - assuming the argument isn't intuitively obvious.

Saul Goode · Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:54 am

In post 2242, T S O wrote:There isn't any WIFOM - either they shoot you, Kop, or Saul! That's it! There's no guiding because they would need to be braindead in order not to do this!

I happen to agree with this, fwiw. They can't have 3 confirmed Town in the game tomorrow. The POE gets too small.

Saul Goode · Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:05 am

In post 2245, House wrote:I'll be confirmed town tomorrow, so if you shoot me tonight it's a scumclaim.

Super obvious VT claim is super obvious.

Saul Goode · Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:28 am

Eventually you will learn that sometimes I just say things to keep scum on their toes. Eventually.

Saul Goode · Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:22 pm

I liked that series of posts from Boon.

VOTE: Ozgin

Let's just kill this scum and call it a day, shall we?

@Mod - I will be V/LA over the weekend.

Happy Easter to everyone who celebrates the Resurrection of Christ! Or... you know... really likes bunnies that lay chocolate eggs and jellybeans. I like jellybeans.

Saul Goode · Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:39 am

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6739459#p6739459]post 2377[/url], Kop wrote:So we've got a replacement for Ozgin, I think we should give her another day, and I say we go for our number 2 and lynch TN. He isn't helping the case by going anti town and not willing to help, which is against his wincon surely if he is town? Since he is not wanting to give us help and not disclosing information which is not helping the town cause. What makes it worse if he flips town all he has done is basically fuck the town over by doing what he is doing.

Amen and Happy Easter.

VOTE: TN

Had a lovely Barrel Aged Rasputin XV that I pulled out of my beer cellar last night. Extraordinary beer.

Saul Goode · Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:26 am

In post 2462, elusive wrote:I want to ISO Psyche to see what led him being NKed. Did he role slip or did he have on point reads?

He PR hinted for like a day and a half when I was half joking about possibly vigging him.

Saul Goode · Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:24 am

Kop - I'm already with you, brother.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:47 am

In post 2518, SilverWolf wrote:So Saul-why didn't you take your shot? This is my number one question because being the vig, not being killed and not taking your shot both nights makes you my number one suspect right now.

Meh. I lied. I'm quite obviously not a vig.

*shrug*

I was trying to draw the NK away from the masons. That said, I think the fact I *AM* alive means that the scum team wasn't too worried about where I was likely to shoot. And that has value.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:54 am

In post 2557, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2555, House wrote:By Saul's on admission, he should have taken a shot last night.

Maybe he did?

Do we know for sure that he didn't at this point?

Yes. It is now confirmed. Also, if you look at the way I worded my post, I think you see where I said I would have to shoot N2 - the implication being IF I were a vig. Again, sorry but just trying to draw a NK.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:02 am

In post 2574, Bookitty wrote:Yeah, I was thinking roleblocker was a possibility. We already have a doc, a tracker and two Masons outed on the town side. We know those for sure. Saul claims vig, and that's huge power on the town side. A roleblocker makes sense on the scum side (and some other power too) to balance that power.

That's what I was thinking and that's why I wanted to wait and see if Saul said that. I didn't want to spoon-feed it to him, though, but that's already happened now.

I was thinking there could be a roleblocker as well. Maybe I've been drawing his attention in an effort to make me look bad when I couldn't provide a kill? *shrug* Don't know but at least I potentially wasted their resources until today.

At this point I think it's better to be honest so people that use game mechanics and setup spec to game solve are at least working with more accurate info.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:03 am

In post 2648, Bookitty wrote:What value do you think it has? I read over your ISO and you were really careful not to narrow down your choices much and even said that you knew how to play your role when discussion was at its peak. So how do you think it's going to help us now?

Let me get caught up and I'll let you know. There are a couple of things I'm weighing including the possibility of drawing a RB that a number of us are thinking may exist.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:44 am

In post 2652, SilverWolf wrote:I appreciate the fact that you were trying to draw the NK but it was extremely risky because you risked being lynched for your behavior.

Minor risk for a major potential reward. I was kind of hoping I wouldn't have to defend my actions since I'd be dead and I think the results would have spoken for themselves.

In post 2652, SilverWolf wrote:I need to see you analyze this game and give some really good/helpful input this game day Saul.

I have a fairly busy week ahead so no promises but I will do what I can do.

On a side note; the pace of the game on this site is so glacially slow compared to what I'm used to that I find it difficult to remain engaged. I like posting and having conversations in real time so this is a challenging environment for me. However, I'm always happy to answer any direct questions.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:47 am

In post 2584, SilverWolf wrote:Saul-Why did you claim vig unprovoked?

Pretty sure I was pressuring Psych or House at the time, iirc. Also, it was after the Mason claim. So I felt like it was just the best thing to do.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:48 am

In post 2585, SilverWolf wrote:Oh and House softclaimed vengeful when he threatened to kill me

This is a fake claim as well, fyi. I have never entertained the notion that he's telling the truth there. It wasn't really worth mentioning since I didn't have him in my scum pool but that's where my head is.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:50 am

In post 2586, House wrote:Are you understanding now why I'm calling shenanigans on Saul's confirmable yet unconfirmed claim?

Are you understanding why I think you are potentially scum that already knew your team had a RB to use on me to prevent me from "proving" my vigginess?

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:53 am

In post 2599, Boonskiies wrote:@Silver - You are way more malleable than Kop was. Your reads are changing very often, and you stick a vote somewhere and easily change it, a la your T S O vote. Plus,
House can pretty much convince you to do anything. That is why Kop was killed over you
.

This does echo a concern of mine, fwiw.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:05 am

In post 2619, SilverWolf wrote:I have very specific reasons for wondering why Kop was killed over me or over the claimed vig and vengeful.

I think any remaining Town PR - if existed - would be all over you. Risk analysis suggests killing Kop is simply safer than killing you on the most fundamental level. That doesn't mean other factors weren't involved but it really could be as simple as that.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:06 am

In post 2658, SilverWolf wrote:OK, Scumteam is House, Boon, Lucky.

Of the three, which one do you feel most confident about?

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:10 am

EBWOP - Why isn't TSO in this pool as a possible alternate to House? I'd like to lynch House last, if at all possible.

PEdit: I am not unhappy with that order.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:14 am

In post 2633, SilverWolf wrote:You see? Everything I am doing is wrong to someone right now.

Burden of being confirmed Town. Everyone is trying to sell themselves to you. Best thing to do is not get upset and assume you are being manipulated then base your reads on how people interact with anyone BUT you. That's how I play IC or confirmed Mason but I guess it's personal preference.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:20 am

VOTE: Boonskies
You scum, bro?

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:35 am

In post 2673, SilverWolf wrote:Why is it that everyone thinks House can manipulate me?

I'm not saying this is the case. What I'm saying is *IF* House is scum *HE* likely thinks he can game you. See the difference? I don't know your history but that's the impression I get based on your interaction in the thread.

In post 2673, SilverWolf wrote:That said, they will shoot me tonight-guaranteed.

Yes. They have to. Sorry but you've played a good game.

In post 2674, SilverWolf wrote:What does scum have to gain by faking vengeful? I would think that would be a crappy fakeclaim.

I'm not saying he is scum fakeclaiming for sure. He could be a VT fakeclaiming and using the vengeful claim as a middle finger pointed directly at people casting suspicion on him. Why would that be a crappy fakeclaim, though? It makes people scared to vote for him, explains why he is never a NK, and can only be proved after he is lynched if you are willing to roll the dice and lynch him anyway. It's a fairly safe/innocuous fakeclaim if you ask me.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:41 am

The problem with Antihero's approach is that you are effectively giving potential scum a free pass to end game, reducing the chances of nailing scum by removing one known bad slot from the poe, and give the scum a better chance at winning the game kingmaker. I don't think Towns generally have the nut to follow through on a PL at LYLO. While I appreciate the theory, I just haven't seen it done in practice.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:57 am

In post 2680, goodmorning wrote:I'm getting very tired of fakeclaiming Town.

There's an art to it.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:03 am

In post 2684, SilverWolf wrote:Or House could actually be a vengeful townie.

Even money bet? You'll find out sooner than I will...

Saul Goode · Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:20 am

In post 2729, SilverWolf wrote:Gross, I hope I'm killed before those choices come up. LOL

Cow tongue tacos are actually super delicious. The meat is cooked low and slow and comes out super juicy and tender. And it just looks like meat in a soft shell so it doesn't even look gross.

Side note: Lucky is revealed as a Beaner _{(or someone that just loves delicious real Mexican food)}.

Saul Goode · Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:30 am

Food requests:

sushi, belgian waffles, beer, jambalaya, big sandwich, tandoori chicken, shrimp cocktail, cocktails, rack of lamb, giros, challa bread french toast, fajitas, beef brisket...

Saul Goode · Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:31 am

In post 2731, Boonskiies wrote:I should probably go V/LA.

You are beginning to sound like the boy who cried wolf. That isn't going to give anyone a reason not to vote for you. And you should care if you are Town.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:49 am

In post 2772, goodmorning wrote:VT.

And now Saul can confirm or deny his VT claim.

Confirm. VT.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:51 am

In post 2764, House wrote:It can't hurt anything now.

I'm Town 2-shot Jailkeeper.

I jailed SW nights 1 & 2 expecting scum to go gunning for her.

Suspicious claim is suspicious.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:51 am

General question - are you guys typically allowed to jk/doc/protect the same person two nights in a row?

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:01 am

@House - did you crumb your protections just in case you were to be NKed?

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:13 am

What's an "IC" [besides innocent child]?

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:15 am

In post 2794, House wrote:I didn't really see a need, given the history between Wolfie and I.

You understand why you claiming your ability as 2 shot has me concerned, yes?

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:20 am

Really? You can't talk me down off a ledge? I'm tinfoiling pretty hard right now and paranoid you are the scum we've been looking for.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:27 am

Can you explain how JK makes sense in a game with a tracker, masons, and a BG? I feel like the BG would be the protective role and don't see why we would need a RB with 4 other Town PR's in the game.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:31 am

GM - can you weigh in on my tinfoil on House? Help with 2801 would be much appreciated.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:38 am

In post 2804, House wrote:
In post 2801, Saul Goode wrote:Can you explain how JK makes sense in a game with a tracker, masons, and a BG? I feel like the BG would be the protective role and don't see why we would need a RB with 4 other Town PR's in the game.

2-shot bodyguard.

Weird that you'd forget that detail.

Also, keep #2701 in mind.

I crumbed jailkeeper in 2713 to attempt to draw the NK because my shots were used up.

I didn't forget the 2-shot part. That doesn't add credibility to your claim, though, because he had already flipped 2x. If anything, that could be used to craft your fake claim.

In post 2701, House wrote:Once I knew you were a mason, you've been the safest person in this game.

This, however, is more like the crumb I was looking for.

And this?

In post 2713, House wrote:That's a terrible plan!

Haha, I'm JK. Let's do it.

LOL - I read that as "joking" instead of jailkeeper.

K. I feel better.

Saul Goode · Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:38 am

VOTE: Lucky

GL.

Saul Goode · Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:21 am

I'm sorry I wasn't more successful at finding scum. By the time I was on to House it was too late and he wouldn't have even been a viable lynch.

I think the best thing I did was to come in and make my slot about as obv-Town as I could. I know some of you have questions about my fake vig claim. All I can tell you is that it was the fastest way to clear my slot and that it drew the RC. If Psyche hadn't been the NK I would have considered that much more of a success.

I think the worst thing I did was lose interest in this game. This site is a LOT slower than I'm used to and I found it difficult to stay engaged. So my major failing is that once I stop engaging in thread I lose track of what's going on and miss details that might prove useful later. I need to be conversing with people in real time and when that doesn't happen I just lose my focus.

Also, since the game is over I have to say this; Aero? I'm not an alt. lol.