Mini 1655: Delicious Mafia (Game Over, Perfect Scum Win!)

[SilverWolf]

SilverWolf: I'm not "telegraphing actions to scum". I'm saying what is likely to happen. Why would scum leave conftown alive? "oh derp lets shoot tso tonight". You yourself have said you expect to die tonight, so why are you taking such umbrage with me saying it?

Telling them what possible PR's are still alive and what NA's they can ideally take before lylo is the fucking problem I have with it. I think leaving some WIFOM is pro-town so tell me why you think what you said is not scummy?

[SilverWolf]

You fucking know better TSO.

[SilverWolf]

I think he should narrow it down to 3-4 possibilities so he's not given an out if none of those die

I think my shot will be pretty obvious versus a scum kill. For example, I won't kill either of the masons or myself.

Perfect because right now, I feel weird about everyone else in the game but that group plus House.

I think House is pretty firmly town and would be a bad vig choice IMO.

[SilverWolf]

I feel like I'm gonna cry.

[SilverWolf]

Why the fuck did no one bother to post here while I was away also?

I'm stepping away.........................be back later when I'm calmer.

[SilverWolf]

Thank You Boonskiies!!

TSO-It was the PR talk I didn't like and if you look back on what I quoted, you should see why but I'm not spelling it out for you.

I have to re-think about this for just a minute.

Also, sorry for my emotional reaction earlier everyone. RL stress was bleeding into yet another one of my games. *sigh* That's why I cut back to 2 and don't even mind being NK'd tonight.

UNVOTE:

[SilverWolf]

Silver, can I get your thoughts on my House/Bookitty? Whenever you have the chance, of course.

Yep, I'm going to re-ISO everyone and give updated reads here shortly.

[SilverWolf]

House: Hated his 490 with the heat of a thousand white hot suns because he was never even interested in Kop. He was hardcore tunnelling Riblet, then all of a sudden, he's willing to bargain for Kop-no, just no House.

Look at this little post test: 1) Is it biased? 2) Is it truthful? 3) Does it make sense? If yes to all of these, it leans town. Bah, you aren't even making 1 out of 3 here.

After hardcore tunnelling Riblet, unvotes for no reason here 571 *scratches head*

This is actually a bad vote 821 because reads change so this is meh.

I don't like 2220 if you are as you suggest, you should not be on this list. I do feel that it's weird you included yourself, like you know you are safe anyway.

I like 2220 and 2082 for personal reasons not related to the game.

So, House has 311 posts in this game and not including the last 2 posts which don't count, I only found a problem with 3 posts? I mean, I didn't look at the posts that didn't have solid contend so it's not fair to say only 3 out of 311 but still only 3 posts that I didn't like.

House is either playing an exceptional scum game or he's playing a town game. I think it's the latter and here's why:

-He's actively scumhunting
-He's giving reads and trying to figure the game out
-He's active, interested, and inquisitive
-He's questioning and trying to interact with just about everyone in the game
-He's listening to his townreads-myself and kop in particular
-He's open to other ideas regarding who is scum

Now, you guys might ask, "Wolfie, I thought you didn't like his wanting to lynch an empty slot and called that scummy." Well, I was wrong about that. Why?

Because that slot was scummy as fuck before Ozgin replaced so is still likely to be scum now. House wasn't calling for lynching a lurker or a slot with no content or someone who replaced but wasn't scummy. Therefore, his actions were not scum motivated.

Final analysis: House is town in this game.

[SilverWolf]

I royally screwed it up anyway. It should be more like:

Look at this little post test: 1) Is it biased? 2) Is it truthful? 3) Does it make sense? If NO to the first one and YES to 2 and 3 then it's likely to come from town. LOL, OR I also go with the one I was taught in my very first newbie game here:

1)Assuming House is town, why would he say this? 2) Assuming House is scum why would he say this? 3) Do I agree with it?

That post didn't past that test either.

Now, if I used this on every post on every player, I'd lose my damn mind. I only pull it out on occasion, on a game relevant post that I can't determine the motivation for otherwise.

Is it fullproof, nope. BUT, if the majority of posts in a person's ISO fail that test, along with other factors as well, it can help in determining alignments.

But I can be very analytical as town when I'm reading people so who knows?

.

[SilverWolf]

I royally screwed it up anyway. It should be more like:

Look at this little post test: 1) Is it biased? 2) Is it truthful? 3) Does it make sense? If NO to the first one and YES to 2 and 3 then it's likely to come from town. LOL, OR I also go with the one I was taught in my very first newbie game here:

1)Assuming House is town, why would he say this? 2) Assuming House is scum why would he say this? 3) Do I agree with it?

#3 is irrelevant. A better question would be: Is it a consistent and logical statement that aligns with the player's other posts?

Different people have different perspectives. Disagreeing with something doesn't mean it's scummy.

Fair enough and I can adjust my little post tests to match this. I was just re-looking at some of my posts to re-fresh my memory of where I stand in this game and there are several places you are actively trying to help me scum hunt like this post and 1990 for example and some of your behavior reminds me of Psyche who was trying to help me too so yeah, House is town folks.

I think Boon's latest posts look town. I think oddmusic and elusive's ISO's look town enough where I'm not going to push for a lynch. And I'm obviously not pushing for Saul or Kop so who's left?

-Ozgin-likely scum
-tn-possible scum
-T S O-maybe scum
-Bookitty-maybe scum (I need to re-ISO her like I did House)

OK, I'm narrowing it down slowly but surely, I'm getting closer.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: T S O

Next strongest scumread that is still in the game. Ozgin replacing out and Boonskiies actually did something productive.

May or may not be in direct response to 2281

Ummm..........................gross.

I didn't even get what T S O was getting at in that post but not sure how it makes him scum all of a sudden? Were you suspecting him before this?

[SilverWolf]

1. T S O - Not a lot of content to go on, honestly, but his postings are in line with what I've seen as his town game. I'm going to say null, lean-town primarily for his push on Kop which made sense to me despite the mason claim later.

T S O - Capable of fooling me as scum, but I'm just not seeing it here. He's taking stances and actively participating in this game in a way I don't feel is scum so far.

That said, TSO is scummy imo for a lot of other reasons so I don't mind him being the lynch OR the vig-shot.

Bookitty-Can you please explain this read progression to me on T S O? You have moved him from probably town to scummy and I'm not seeing the reasoning for it anywhere in your posts.

[SilverWolf]

So, I'm thinking I agree with Saul that Ozgin slot is a good lynch today. Bookitty's ISO has a couple good read's lists but otherwise doesn't have a ton of real deep scumhunting posts I'd expect from town tbh. I'm completely unfamiliar with her play. I am inclined to believe Boon's meta saying T S O is likely town at least for today. tn's T S O vote is gross and scummy. I don't get Bookitty's read progression on T S O and seems to be mostly following the crowd this game.

So here's my guess for scumteam, scummiest to least scummy:

-Ozgin, tn, Bookitty

OK, So.........................................I realized I argued against it but I think the Ozgin slot is a good lynch for today. He was scummy, I think that's universally accepted here. Now, that does give me pause that you would think scum would be resistant to this and argue against it but they could of decided it's pointless. He's scummy, let's bus. But that hammer and about 90% of his ISO is scummy.

Anyway, I'm up for an Ozgin lynch.

VOTE: Ozgin

[SilverWolf]

Happy Easter to everyone who celebrates the Resurrection of Christ! Or... you know... really likes bunnies that lay chocolate eggs and jellybeans. I like jellybeans.

Hope everyone enjoys the day!!

[SilverWolf]

I like 2220 and 2082 for personal reasons not related to the game.

Brief correct to this part of my post. I meant I liked 2101 and 2082 for personal reasons not related to the game. Not 2220. Just wanted to clarify that to avoid confusion.

I also feel like, I have said enough in my posts by now that even if a lynch were to go through tomorrow and I didn't get to say anything else and was Nk'd, I'd be fine with that now.

[SilverWolf]

Hope you feel better soon Aero.

<3

[SilverWolf]

I don't think I even noticed that, Kop. I'm pretty sure that my suspicions were just based on the "OMG what are you doing you must be scum" reaction that TSO gave to the pressure we were putting on Boon. I started thinking there was a link there at that point and got more suspicious of both of them as a result.

Is there any way you can elaborate on a possible connection between Boon and T S O?

Kop-I also noticed how T S O went from questioning us about the tn lynch to suddenly being convinced tn is scum and I don't get the progression.

T S O-please expand on your tn scumcase.

pedit: That really surprised me about Oddmusic but he's town, I'm pretty sure so we can let that slot replace. Still fine with lynching Ozgin spot though.

[SilverWolf]

elusive-You have to tell me why you voted for Oddmusic for real instead of saying it's for fun.

Explain please.

If we end up lynching, next day can someone go through all my unanswered questions and ask them again

tia

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, every time I think I have T S O figured out, some new weird stuff comes up. I don't think he every voted for Ozgin for one. I also don't get his tn read progression at all which he needs to explain and then there's this weird Boon stuff.

I mean if Bookitty is town, the chances are very, very good that T S O is scum and it could be I'm clearing Boon too quickly as well.

If anything, I make the mistake of clearing people too quickly sometimes in games as town or scumreading them too quickly.

Right now my for sure townreads are Kop, Saul, House, Oddmusic, elusive.

So I either have scum in my townreads, have town in my scumreads/unsorted pile, or who knows? I don't have to figure it all out right this second.

I just need one really good scumread for today and I'm fairly confident of Ozgin although I will be willing to consider others with enough good reasons to do so.

[SilverWolf]

You guys don't have to trust me on House. I've misread him before when he's been scum and I think he's town. If he's scum, it would make a whole lot of sense as to why I feel like I'm missing something.

Meh-I still think he's town, he's playing a town game here. However, he's pretty townie as scum and scummy as town so I would really be kicking myself if I was wrong on him. Still think he's town but he makes me paranoid as hell.

[SilverWolf]

PEdit: I think your confirmed townieness is making you say all your thoughts out loud, because you can, and I think it's confusing you a little.

I want them all out there for when I'm gone and it is well known I change my mind a lot and second guess myself constantly as town. Too much paranoia and fear of being wrong.

[SilverWolf]

OK Well, no one lynch until the replacement can speak. We have 6 days.

tia

[SilverWolf]

OK-I've already put the question out to elusive as to why she's voting Oddmusic because that makes zero sense to me. She's back Monday.

I've also asked tn about his vote for T S O which he has yet to answer.

These are the votes off the Ozgin wagon I really do not get at all.

If anyone votes Lucky right now without him getting to finish, is going to look like a scumbag IMO.

pedit: T S O, tn is someone I would be willing to switch to. He's my number 2 choice for scum right now. I'm waiting for Lucky to finish and for tn to answer my question. If he doesn't, I'll consider that an answer as well and not a good one.

[SilverWolf]

Why can't people use post links? What's up with that?

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, You may be too lazy to type them but I'm too lazy to look for those posts so here ya go.

House, why aren't you voting numbers?

Voted Boon in 2173

2214 made me feel better about my vote.

2265, 2267, 2268, 2314 has plenty of reasons for where my vote currently is.

2173, 2214, 2265, 2267, 2268, 2314

Your'e welcome!

[SilverWolf]

tn are you going to answer my question about why you voted T S O?

[SilverWolf]

I could start arguing with you, House, or I could just go to bed.

House.
Bed.
House.

Bed.

I'll see you in the morning, big boy.

(or you could take house to bed)

Aero............................

[SilverWolf]

Yep, and it made no sense which is why I asked you to clarify but I see you've decided to go the antagonistic, anti-town route.

Feel free to replace out if you don't want to play.

[SilverWolf]

May or may not be in direct response to 2281

The question is, what about 2281 is scummy?

[SilverWolf]

Are we supposed to say, "Ooh, ahhh, how town!"?

Sarcasm is a lowest sign of wit.

It doesn't suit you.

On the contrary, sarcasm is the laziest form of wit.

Therefore, it suits me perfectly!

Going to sleep now, at page 33 just after House and Silver finished their lover's spat. Which I may or may not have skimmed over because it was ridiculous...

You can just skip over all those parts where House is being a PITA and it'll save you a lot of reading.

[SilverWolf]

That's just hurtful.

Awwwwww..................................You know I say that with affection though.

Also, you mentioned posts where you find Boon scummy here 2345. What about these? 2254, 2255, and 2258. Those look fairly townie to me.

Are you sure you are not worried about him because he's scumreading you?

[SilverWolf]

Yes I know but it isn't the number of words, but what the words say and he's actively trying to figure things out in a way that doesn't look fake. I need to see more than just those 3 but he's more engaged now so if people are still scumreading him, then I'd like to know why at this point.

Anway, it's way past my bedtime right now. Good night.

[SilverWolf]

Kop, you are a wise and beautiful man.

Mason buddying noted.

Everyone have a wonderful day.

I agree, let's give the replacement more time.

I'd still like to hear what Lucky says before casting any more votes for anyone today however.

[SilverWolf]

I agree with tn lynch in theory as he's not going to be helpful to town if he's town and there's a good chance he's scum. It doesn't matter to me as much if Oddmusic's replacement gets in here before day end but Lucky's here so I'd like to hear what he has to say. However, consider my vote on tn. I'd still like elusive to explain her oddmusic vote if not today, then next day.

[SilverWolf]

It's like playing football, if your not going to help your team mates you might as well be substituted for someone who is going to help the team.

Or in this case, taken out of the game all together.

[SilverWolf]

Wolfie, I think your partner is a Scum Mason.

OMG, That means he's going to shoot me tonight.

Or maybe, he's going to manipulate me to do what he wants. I mean, it may look like sheeping but still..............................

[SilverWolf]

Wolfie, I think your partner is a Scum Mason.

OMG, That means he's going to shoot me tonight.

Or maybe, he's going to manipulate me to do what he wants. I mean, it may look like sheeping but still..............................

I wouldn't shoot a lazy.

Hey, don't let my secrets out of the bag.

Lazy should be lady, don't know how I hit the Z considering it's not exactly need the D.

Need should be Near.

I'm going to hit the X, last nights beer is seemingly coming back to the surface.

[SilverWolf]

I disagree with NL in most cases unless we are in a mylo type situation. I think we should lynch. I pretty much posted this in the mason PT.

Town: kop, myself, Saul, House, Oddmusic, elusive-If I'm wrong about one of these, it's House but I don't think so.

Not sure or scum: Bookitty, T S O, tn, Lucky, Boon. There are 3 scum. Lynching within these 5 gives us great odds of hitting scum.

Boon has put up a few good posts recently. I need to see more, but I kind of been having gut town feelings on this spot, not very strong but good enough. Bookitty has a few town looking posts but I'm uncomfortable with her as well for sort of following the crowd this game. T S O, I feel may be scum but I don't have a real convincing case here, so by PoE that leaves tn which is where my vote will eventually be headed.

[SilverWolf]

I disagree with NL in most cases unless we are in a mylo type situation. I think we should lynch. I pretty much posted this in the mason PT.

Town: kop, myself, Saul, House, Oddmusic, elusive-If I'm wrong about one of these, it's House but I don't think so.

Not sure or scum: Bookitty, T S O, tn, Lucky, Boon. There are 3 scum. Lynching within these 5 gives us great odds of hitting scum.

Boon has put up a few good posts recently. I need to see more, but I kind of been having gut town feelings on this spot, not very strong but good enough. Bookitty has a few town looking posts but I'm uncomfortable with her as well for sort of following the crowd this game. T S O, I feel may be scum but I don't have a real convincing case here, so by PoE that leaves tn which is where my vote will eventually be headed.

Oh, and we decided to let Lucky catch up and post. Forgot that part.

[SilverWolf]

About the only thing that can change my mind at this point is a really convincing Boon scumcase or a very convincing tn towncase.

[SilverWolf]

If bookitty or house move over, DO NOT LYNCH TN!

Well, You might be able to convince me that Bookitty is scum. Bookitty seems to think tn is town anyway. Not sure where House stands on tn but he seems to think you are scum.

[SilverWolf]

I saw your posts on Boon House and I get where your suspicion is but I don't get Bookitty's. Bookitty can you explain why Boon is scum? The below post is an interesting observation but only really makes sense if one of them flips scum.

In Post 2044 I move my vote from TN to Boonskiies.

In Post 2045 TSO votes me and later says I'm way too votehappy.

TSO then claims that he doesn't know what's going on with the vote switches, which looks like a preemptive excuse for his vote when I eventually flip town.

The timing of his vote looks like he doesn't want Boonskiies pressured, especially since he didn't say anything when I voted TN whom I'd claimed a mild townread on right up til that point. If TSO was really concerned with scumhunting, wouldn't he have picked up on THAT and not the Boon vote, which actually made more sense given my expressed views up to that point?

[SilverWolf]

You'll excuse me if I've been going through RL shit and don't remember exactly every little thing in this game which is why I ISO's after V/LA. I do remember why you were voting him in the first place but that's an easy vote. Follow the confirmed town. I got off Boon after he started posting reads lists, VCA, and his thoughts on who was scum. You and House stayed. House has explaine per ISO why he's still there. I haven't seen your reasoning so that's why I'm asking-why you are still there and why you think he's scum.

The problem I'm having with this game is that I'm not seeing detailed reasoning from people on their scum picks. I don't care if anyone gives them or not on their town picks but on scum, I'd like to know. It helps me a lot.

[SilverWolf]

Fuck off, I never said I didn't remember the plan. I said I didn't know why you thought Boon was scum or why you are still on him.

[SilverWolf]

Sorry, But I didn't know why you were still on him after he started posting again. That's why I am not. Because I like what he posted.

[SilverWolf]

Thank You, That was my question. Why you are still voting Boon this close to deadline since the pressure worked and while you don't like his play, you don't think it makes him scum, so.........................you think tn is town for some inexplicable reason and...........................you want to vote Lucky after he posts but you also said earlier you didn't want to vote Lucky because he's a replacement.

You've contradicted yourself so many times in your recent posts, I'm ready to switch to you because this doesn't look like a town though process but frustrated scum caught up in their own fabrications.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Bookitty

[SilverWolf]

Wow, That's some impressive AtE there Bookitty but it's not town frustration that I see because you should have no problem explaining yourself in a way that makes sense. Instead you are contradicting yourself, attacking me, and getting upset when a couple people vote you.

I've been suspicious of you for awhile but your posts today confirm you as scum to me and I'm not changing my vote.

[SilverWolf]

I don't recall saying I was going to wait for a replacement to come in, but you, Silverwolf, threw a hissy fit because people WERE NOT WAITING for a replacement to come in and were instead voting Ozgin's slot. So now it's damned if you do, damned if you don't, right? I did say I was waiting NOW, but your confusing the two issues is just more misrepresentation from someone who is SUPPOSED to be conftown and to act like it.

This is misrep and trying to discredit me instead of work with me. All you have to do is explain yourself in a way that makes sense coming from town, show post link of things you've already said if you'd rather, and I'll drop the whole thing if I can understand were you are coming from. Pissing me off doesn't accomplish the same goal or make me want to work with you to figure out where you are coming from. You do realize some of my behavior is designed to get scum to slip up right? Like asking the same question several different ways to see if there's a contradiction. At least on those I suspect. Pushing the issue even when YOU feel it is explained and seeing your reaction is also helpful in getting a read on you. You do realize answering questions is part of the game right?

We're four days away from deadline. I have NOT been inactive nor have I been avoiding saying what I would do. Yelling at me and threatening me over who I'm voting makes me just want to prod dodge until you lynch me, honestly. Having every part of my past actions rewritten (Why did you think Boon was scum? Why don't you unvote when I do?) to fit whatever weird theory you're floating at the time is less than fun. I can't even defend myself against accusations like that: It's like "Why do you beat your wife?" No answer I give is going to satisfy, including the obvious "I don't even have a wife."

More misrep. I never yelled at you or threatened you or asked you why you unvoted when I did. That's BS manipulation. I asked you about your Boon scumread and why. I don't think that's an unreasonable request or worth the response you gave. You over reacted considering you have not gotten very much pressure this game at all.

So you and House enjoy your little tag-team attack action. I'm not scared to be the lynch today, and when I flip town, I hope to god Saul shoots straight.

This is straight up AtE.

[SilverWolf]

Ugh.............................................................

I'm sorry for telling you to fuck off.

I've been a real fucking bitch this game and I probably shouldn't be playing mafia until my RL and mental state is in a better place.

[SilverWolf]

I thought you said you wanted to give Lucky time to post and not kill a replacement because you've been there and it sucks. So I figured you were NOT going to vote him at all today because of that because lynching him after putting all that work in would suck. Then I saw this and thought you were contradicting yourself.

I haven't moved my vote for these reasons. Will I? Probably to Lucky2U barring some really exceptional content/insights. But it's sitting where I want it for now.

I was not asking you to unvote Boon because I was or for any other reason. I was asking you to clarify your scumread on him. When you said you didn't like his play but didn't think it made him scum, I was asking for clarification as to why you were voting someone you don't think is scum.

No need to apologize for getting angry at me. I'm going to try to control my temper better. Being conftown gives me no right to act however the fuck I feel like.

<3

[SilverWolf]

I'm fine with a Lucky2U vote in another day or so if he doesn't post good content or at all. I'm pretty flexible as long as my townreads are not up for a lynch, I probably won't argue too much.

[SilverWolf]

I will probably vote either tn or Lucky but would not consider Boon a terrible vote either which is why I was trying to get the reasons behind why people thought he was scum because I already understood why Ozgin was scummy and Lucky hasn't done anything to change that and tn has been scummy all game and I just wanted more feedback from those voting Boon-House and Bookitty to help me make up my mind on him.

Lucky has another day since there are a little over 4 days until deadline. After that I'm voting for one of the above.

[SilverWolf]

Psyche outs the masons for whatever reason (seriously, why role fish when you yourself are a PR? should have seen that coming Psyche)

I know right?

[SilverWolf]

Ugh.......................I wonder if House is scum after all?

Fuck my life.

[SilverWolf]

Just a heads up, I'm still going through some life stuff atm. I SHOULD be able to be available by the time deadline is close. If I'm slow about it, just have faith that I'll get there before too much time passes. I don't think it will end up being a problem, though. Thanks

Don't worry about it. RL comes first. Take care Aero.

<3

[SilverWolf]

Spoiler:

>omgus

*covers house's retreat*

did you not read the post where i voted him, because thats all the explanation you're getting

any explanation i could give would simply be a rewording of what i've already said

If bookitty or house move over, DO NOT LYNCH TN!

Boon, this makes no sense.

I actually agree, which is scary.

I'll make a post tomorrow. Had a long shift today and am dead tired.

If bookitty or house move over, DO NOT LYNCH TN!

Boon, this makes no sense.

I actually agree, which is scary.

I'll make a post tomorrow. Had a long shift today and am dead tired.

So join me, then. I'll overlook you selling your buddy out if you wanna bus him properly instead of try to posture.

You do realize I am voting TSO, right?

This is the extent of what tn has posted since his wagon developed. He's either scum or town that is so apathetic that he's a hindrance to the game at this point. I would like more input from Lucky so I can read that slot better because it's basically still null-scum to me but we have 3 days left and I'm fine putting tn to L-2. I think the resistance to his lynch by Bookitty should be looked at no matter what he flips because she is so certain that he's town it's kind of weird at this point. However, I did get frustrated town out of one of her posts yesterday so just look at this tomorrow because I'm sure I won't be here and I want my posts to be looked at when I'm gone.

VOTE: tn5421

[SilverWolf]

Also, this game has kind of been dragging somewhat while we wait for replacements/catch ups, V/LA's, etc. and that's harmful to town as well. So we just need a lynch and unless someone desperately wants to kill Boon or Lucky and has a really good reason and can say so, I'm sticking with tn. I think we need a lynch/flip more than anything at this point.

[SilverWolf]

tn is NOT a PL to me, if he's town scum will never take him out, he'll be a liability if he makes it to lylo

BUT I think he's scum

[SilverWolf]

Anyway, if tn flips town OR scum, re-look at Bookitty. Her argument yesterday did not feel tvt to me like my argument with Psyche and House did in this game. I can't shake the feeling something is off with her and her certainty on tn town is suspicious.

Keep pressure on Boon and Lucky to keep producing content. They are not townreads at all in any way shape or form for me.

Saul is a townread outside of his claim but still if he doesn't take a shot, look hard at him as well. I think he's town but don't assume anything.

Re-look at the weaker townreads as well-Oddmusic and elusive, they are probably town but not not as active or townie as I'd like.

House is probably town despite my paranoia saying I might be wrong. If I am, well I hopefully someone else will figure him out then but I think he's likely to be town.

[SilverWolf]

I didn't really like that House started the game not playing toward his town meta (according to SW, since I have one game history with him I wouldn't be able to tell)

This is BS, too. SW wanted to lynch me in another game we were in for the same reason. Ask her what my alignment was in that game.

I often try to lynch House early game when he's town. When he's scum, I usually just call him town all game.

It's annoying.

[SilverWolf]

Anyway, if tn flips town OR scum, re-look at Bookitty. Her argument yesterday did not feel tvt to me like my argument with Psyche and House did in this game. I can't shake the feeling something is off with her and her certainty on tn town is suspicious.

Keep pressure on Boon and Lucky to keep producing content. They are not townreads at all in any way shape or form for me.

Saul is a townread outside of his claim but still if he doesn't take a shot, look hard at him as well. I think he's town but don't assume anything.

Re-look at the weaker townreads as well-Oddmusic and elusive, they are probably town but not not as active or townie as I'd like.

House is probably town despite my paranoia saying I might be wrong. If I am, well I hopefully someone else will figure him out then but I think he's likely to be town.

Forgot T S O, I'm going to trust those that know him better and say very light townread here. If the meta is true, he works harder as scum and gets scumread as town, then that's holding up here.

[SilverWolf]

@tn: I've seen you posting in your other games while avoiding this one.

Claim please, you are at L-1.

[SilverWolf]

Meh, good point. I'm fine with a hammer any time.

[SilverWolf]

Although it's not impossible he has a role-please do not speculate again about what is possible in the game.

[SilverWolf]

tn is scum and Bookitty is one of his partners.

[SilverWolf]

Yes, scum self-hammer all the time to cut off discussion and deny info. to town.

[SilverWolf]

Ozgin/Lucky is a possible third. I don't think Ozgin ever voted for tn but I can check. I just want this in here before Aero closed the thread.

I think the fact that tn kept voting for Boon and T S O was pushing tn so hard makes them both possible town now.

[SilverWolf]

Lynch Bookitty tomorrow or Saul, take her out.

Don't forget as I likely won't be here. She is scum also.

Lucky is a great candidate for the third scum.

[SilverWolf]

I will do an analysis post flip in the Mason PT, kop can use here next day to help catch the other scum and give my final reads to him.

Good job town!!

[SilverWolf]

Nope, Don't fall for it. That vote from House counts. It's counted before. It will count again.

tn is hammered and dead.

Don't let him WIFOM the situation.

It's twilight.

[SilverWolf]

tn if you are town playing this way, I won't shed a tear at your lynch

But that will also give us good info. to use because then town goes after T S O tomorrow so it really doesn't matter.

[SilverWolf]

RIP Kop, You were a great Mason partner and you will be missed.

So Saul-why didn't you take your shot? This is my number one question because being the vig, not being killed and not taking your shot both nights makes you my number one suspect right now.

Also, I need to know why Kop was taken out instead of me.

This makes me suspect House. I've been townreading him and he would leave me around if I wasn't suspecting him.

Also, somewhat suspicious of Lucky and T S O and need to re-look at everyone else as well.

I really hate what happened with tn as well but there is no point in dwelling on that.

There's 9 of us left alive and 3 scum so we should take our time and make sure we get it right this time.

Bookitty's last post looked pretty sincere. I'm starting to think I was wrong in my scumread of her. I was townreading elusive and Oddmusic but the replacements will be helpful to continue to read those spots and Boon needs to start posting more again because he slacked off once the pressure was off.

Welcome Zebulin and welcome GM!!

[SilverWolf]

RIP Kop, You were a great Mason partner and you will be missed.

So Saul-why didn't you take your shot? This is my number one question because being the vig, not being killed and not taking your shot both nights makes you my number one suspect right now.

Also, I need to know why Kop was taken out instead of me.

This makes me suspect House. I've been townreading him and he would leave me around if I wasn't suspecting him.

Seriously? Haven't we already had this conversation?

Yes... yes we have!

Allow me to refresh your memory.

All the more reason to keep me alive.

[SilverWolf]

RIP Kop, You were a great Mason partner and you will be missed.

So Saul-why didn't you take your shot? This is my number one question because being the vig, not being killed and not taking your shot both nights makes you my number one suspect right now.

Also, I need to know why Kop was taken out instead of me.

This makes me suspect House. I've been townreading him and he would leave me around if I wasn't suspecting him.

Seriously? Haven't we already had this conversation?

Yes... yes we have!

Allow me to refresh your memory.

All the more reason to keep me alive.

Ever hear of the term "confbias"?

Yes I have. I've been townreading you most of the game, I need to re-examine that.

I did say Saul is my number one suspect though. Him not taking his shot both nights and still being alive with a protective PR dead and us telling him that he needed to shoot to confirm his role, is very damning. If he has not good answers, which I don't see how he will, he'll probably be the lynch. But I don't want to rush it. I want to look at who his partners would be then.

[SilverWolf]

This kind of nonsense is why I can't work with you. There's just zero trust. You don't even trust your own experience with me. This is why I crumb to people like Wisdom and Titus and keep my distance from you... I never know when you're going to get that paranoid hair up your ass and try to lynch me.

It's not my fault you are hard to figure out. I am not trying to lynch you right now in case you haven't noticed so calm down. I want to know why Kop was killed instead of me. No offense to Kop. He's a great player and a great partner but I think most people were thinking it would be me or Saul so something isn't fitting together right now and I'm just trying to figure it out.

I am very interested to hear what Bookitty comes up with as well.

[SilverWolf]

This kind of nonsense is why I can't work with you. There's just zero trust. You don't even trust your own experience with me. This is why I crumb to people like Wisdom and Titus and keep my distance from you... I never know when you're going to get that paranoid hair up your ass and try to lynch me.

It's not my fault you are hard to figure out. I am not trying to lynch you right now in case you haven't noticed so calm down. I want to know why Kop was killed instead of me. No offense to Kop. He's a great player and a great partner but I think most people were thinking it would be me or Saul so something isn't fitting together right now and I'm just trying to figure it out.

I am very interested to hear what Bookitty comes up with as well.

Eh, it's just frustrating because there are people I've played with considerably less that can sort me within a game day, whereas you, one of the best players I know and enjoy playing with above most others, costantly question your read of me.

I mean yeah, when it comes to random players, I really like the whole "wtf is he doing?!" mindset they have. But by now, I'd think you should know better. =/

What do you want me to do House? You've fooled me as scum before. Am I supposed to just keep my townread of you and never question it again? You know I can't do that in light of the fact I'm still alive. You're making me feel bad. I've enough drama lately to last a lifetime. :/

[SilverWolf]

If SilverWolf's a Mason and that wasn't just a joke (tysm for filling me in, btb) then that's an excellent foundation for me to build reads on.

I'm the other Mason in the game. Kop was my partner. We were outed earlier when Kop was being wagoned and I vouched for him being town.

So yes, I'm pretty much confirmed town right now.

Saul claimed vig-is still alive and not taken his shot either night.

Psyche is dead-town tracker.

tn was a 2 shot bodyguard who self-hammered with some idiot gambit that I can't even talk about without getting pissed.

I think that's it for claims and PR's.

[SilverWolf]

Saul claimed vig-is still alive and not taken his shot either night.

what that is incredibly sketch

Yep, He got a lot of heat for not taking his shot N1 and we told him he should do it last night so my very first question to him is why he didn't. I don't even want to mention the possible scenarios until he answers so I don't give him any ideas on how to get out of it.

[SilverWolf]

You don't have to be talking to someone for them to find the things you're saying are a bit off.

You aren't qualified to have an opinion on my posts until you've actually caught up on what all has happened.

I don't need to have read 102 pages to find your trying to guilt SilverWolf into townreading you scummy.

You're judging shit that you have 0 context on, and I give a rat's ass what your opinion of it is.

This isn't the first time Wolfie and I have had this conversation. We go through this pretty much every game.

So what do you want me to do about it House? That's the question. I am very, very paranoid when I'm town. I question myself constantly and am wrong a lot. Occasionally I get one right but I'm usually a lot better late game when I can use PoE. And you have fooled me hard as scum more than once. So I'm just making sure I'm right on you is all I'm doing because I am still alive and kind of wasn't expecting to be.

[SilverWolf]

p-edit: Was there a consensus as to targets for him?

N1 the obvious target should of been Ozgin-now Lucky because he quickhammered Wrong Song without a claim to save his own ass because he was the other wagon.

He was also extremely scummy. Since Lucky has replaced he hasn't really caught up yet so I'm not sure where I stand on him right now but he woul of been a fine target N2 as well.

With 3 scum still alive and 2 mason's outed, he had a great chance at hitting scum.

I believe I told him to try for T S O as well since T S O led the lynch on both Wrong Song and tn who are both dead town now.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, I think before I judge or say too much about Saul, I'd like him to answer for his actions last night. Then take it from there. He's usually V/LA on weekends IIRC so we may not hear too much from him for a couple days so we'll see.

I will review what Kop said in the Mason PT because he usually posted stuff there before bringing in here and see if I can find anything that might have made him a target.

Other than that, I'll let replacements catch up and re-ISO and update my reads eventually.

pedit: LOL, I can't say I've ever even had conch chowder or would even know what it's supposed to look like.

pedit part 2: I also need to go to bed. It's late. Good night all.

pedit part 3: Yeah, someone was stabbed but Aero emphaized flavor has nothing to do with kills, I was all excited it might mean SK but nope.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, that SK stuff was my fault because I told him in the PT I thought there was an SK because of the knife but Aero reminded us that flavor is just flavor. I really don't think there is an SK AND a vig in a game like this.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, that SK stuff was my fault because I told him in the PT I thought there was an SK because of the knife but Aero reminded us that flavor is just flavor. I really don't think there is an SK AND a vig in a game like this.

I'll go one farther and say I don't think there's even a vig in this game.

Either that or something I don't want to say because I don't want to give him any ideas before he tells us what he did last night.

[SilverWolf]

What doesn't make sense?

Meh, I'm just going to out with it.

Yeah, I was thinking roleblocker was a possibility. We already have a doc, a tracker and two Masons outed on the town side. We know those for sure. Saul claims vig, and that's huge power on the town side. A roleblocker makes sense on the scum side (and some other power too) to balance that power.

That's what I was thinking and that's why I wanted to wait and see if Saul said that. I didn't want to spoon-feed it to him, though, but that's already happened now.

Yeah, I was withholding that as a possibility.

[SilverWolf]

Tn didn't self-hammer, silver. Tn self-voted, but backed off when she realized it wasn't a hammer. Side note...Bookitty is totally scum. Look at how I, as one of her main scum reads yesterDay have just went off the horizon. Also, it's convenient that she's trying to push for Saul to say something first, and talking about how she doesn't want

Saul

to do that Cat thing. I believe Bookitty is the one actually doing that.

Also, remember when I said lynch House/Bookitty if they hop over to Tn? Yeah.

VOTE: House

I'll go for Boo as well.

tn DID self-hammer, he didn't think it was a hammer because of House's vote that was a nickname but nickname's are allowed, given he was a PR, it was a stupid thing to do, he also played like scum the whole game too

Kop asked House to vote for tn, it was nearing deadline so House moved over

Maybe you should just read and pay attention to the game Boon, you know?

[SilverWolf]

GoodMorning already said it. It's not like he wouldn't know now.

Surely he's not that stupid though?

Saul's game has looked pretty town and Choof looked town. That said, a RB is the only thing that makes sense for why he is alive and the kill didn't go through IF he's town. OR he didn't take his shot after saying he would.

OR, he's fakeclaiming scum which would be a terrible fakeclaim and totally not necessary since he was in no danger of a lynch.

[SilverWolf]

After reading Saul in ISO I'm no longer entertaining the 'Scum' option.

Why did Ozgin not get lynched D2? Was it just because Lucky replaced in?

That was my fault. I was on V/LA and wanted the replacement to get a chance to speak because Psyche (dead town) was sure Oz was town. I got irritated with the group for wanting to lynch and empty spot with no claim and wanted a replacement in here to see if we could get a better read on that slot given Ozgin didn't post a lot. I didn't want yet another mislynch even though Ozgin was scummy and that hammer deserved a lynch. If he's scum, I'm going to feel stupid BUT Lucky has not really done much since replacing and has had plenty of time so I would be fine lynching him eventually if he continues like that.

[SilverWolf]

After reading Saul in ISO I'm no longer entertaining the 'Scum' option.

Why did Ozgin not get lynched D2? Was it just because Lucky replaced in?

which would be a terrible fakeclaim and totally not necessary since he was in no danger of a lynch.

The second part of this is what's making me think roleblocker.

That's why I want to see what he says. I think he's town but an explanation from him will help a lot in figuring a few things out.

[SilverWolf]

Saul-Why did you claim vig unprovoked?

Lucky-You done with your catch up yet?

[SilverWolf]

Oh and House softclaimed vengeful when he threatened to kill me when I was pushing for his lynch early game BEFORE I was outed as a Mason. I think this is important to note since it's already been pretty much spelled out already. 324, 326, 328, 333

Is vengeful possible with vig, 2-shot bodyguard, 2 masons, and a tracker?

I know I was against all this PR talk and got on T S O's case about it but that was before a protective role was outed because I was hoping there was still one in the game that would protect Saul, Kop, myself and T S O was saying there were no more PR's. In fact when I asked tn to claim, T S O said there was no point to it.

Just a few notes that the replacements should be aware of and can easily find in the game anyway. In fact, why kill Mason's over vengeful anyway? Why kill Kop over me?

House-can you see why I'm suspicious of you just a little?

[SilverWolf]

Oh and House softclaimed vengeful when he threatened to kill me when I was pushing for his lynch early game BEFORE I was outed as a Mason. I think this is important to note since it's already been pretty much spelled out already. 324, 326, 328, 333

Is vengeful possible with vig, 2-shot bodyguard, 2 masons, and a tracker?

I know I was against all this PR talk and got on T S O's case about it but that was before a protective role was outed because I was hoping there was still one in the game that would protect Saul, Kop, myself and T S O was saying there were no more PR's. In fact when I asked tn to claim, T S O said there was no point to it.

Just a few notes that the replacements should be aware of and can easily find in the game anyway. In fact, why kill Mason's over vengeful anyway? Why kill Kop over me?

House-can you see why I'm suspicious of you just a little?

Are you understanding now why I'm calling shenanigans on Saul's confirmable yet unconfirmed claim?

Well, there's likely shenanigans with one of you or you are both town but that needs to be sorted.

[SilverWolf]

Silverwolf, could you post a catch-up of the game so I actually know what everyone is talking about

while

I catch up?

Well, D1 House softed vengeful, Masons' were outed (myself and Kop), Saul (replaced choof) claimed vig, we lynched Wrong Song (replaced Riblet) who was VT, Ozgin quickhammered to save his own ass since he was the other wagon, Psyche (dead town) seemed to think Oz (now replaced by Lucky) was town, then Psyche was NK'd-town tracker.

Town was set to quicklynch Ozgin's emply spot D2 but I argued to let the replacement in due to Psyche thinking he might be town and because there was no way for that spot to claim otherwise. Lucky has been promising to catch up but hasn't yet and he replaced Ozgin who was scummy so is someone to look at as a suspect for sure. Also, D2 Saul said he didn't take his shot due to the mislynch and didn't want to hit town but would take it N2 to prove his claim. tn did some lame gambit and ended up hammering himself as a 2 shot bodyguard. Kop one of the Masons was NK'd. No shot was taken overnight by Saul and we are wondering why. Also, elusive was replaced by you and Oddmusic was replaced by goodmorning.

Other things to note. Boon was almost lynched and claimed VT. Bookitty and T S O are sort of suspicious for various reasons (I would like you and GM to give your thoughts here). You and GM are likely town based on the people in your spots before you. Saul and House are either both town and being honest about their claims or there is a slight possibility of a fakeclaim we need to figure out. I am wondering why Kop was killed over me only because of how well I know House and wondering if he is involved in that in someway-my super paranoia kicking in here. I've had a hard townread on both Saul and House but I'm obviously confused.

I think this should be enough for you to finish catching up on your own.

[SilverWolf]

I kind of wish I had asked that before I started reading to catch up. I did finish and I feel like that is rather accurate summary of the events. How you came to the conclusion that oddmusic and elusive are likely town is slightly beyond me. Odd music is the nullest null read ever and elusive is scum to null depending on how generous I feel at the time. How are you still "hard townreading" saul when he promised to shoot and didn't? How are you hard reading house period?

I'm going to be busy for several hours but will answer this in more detail later. I probably need to re-set all my reads for D3 anyway.

[SilverWolf]

Also, silver, Aero didn't count House's "zipcode" vote, so Tn didn't self hammer, which is why Tn isn't on his own wagon when the lynch happened. Check the vote count.

Yes Boon, tn hammered himself. It took 6 to lynch. If tn wasn't the hammer, the who was? Are you paying attention to this game or not? Let me help you.

Here's where he voted for himself which WAS the hammer vote:

T
Why argue against my lynch when town is literally so retarded they spam hundred of pages and have at most 20 pages of content.
VOTE: tn5421
I for one am glad to be shot of you. I'm a VT, enjoy your wifom.

Here's where he said it didn't count.

Naw I'm fucking trolling you. House's vote isn't in a valid format so I'm at L-1.
UNVOTE: tn5421
Now it's L-2 again.
THAT is a gambit.

inb4 mod counts houses vote as legit despite the target not being valid

T S O is one of the most suspicious and I don't get why you're scumreading bookitty although thats mostly cuz i haven't read her much at all.

Here's where Aero said it does count:

I) For your vote or unvote to be counted, it must either be in the form of

Vote: Aeronaut

or VOTE: Aeronaut. Nicknames/abbreviations are fine as long as I know who you're talking about.

I apologize Tn, but nicknames/abbreviations mean the same thing, here. Seeing that's what players have been calling you (as well what I actually had called you previously), it will count as a hammer. Sorry, friend.

Obviously he forgot to add tn's vote to the final lynch vote.

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!

Tn5421- T S O, Saul Goode, Kop, Silverwolf, House (LYNCH)

[SilverWolf]

When I come back, I'd like to see an L-1 wagon on me with SilverWolf & Saul OFF the wagon, if possible.

Then what?

[SilverWolf]

@Silver - You are way more malleable than Kop was. Your reads are changing very often, and you stick a vote somewhere and easily change it, a la your T S O vote. Plus, House can pretty much convince you to do anything. That is why Kop was killed over you.

Do you have access to the scum PT and they told you this?

How on Earth did you get the idea House could get me to do anything he wants? Is that why we've been arguing so much this whole game because I'm not sure of my read on him?

The changing votes was part of a strategy some of us were using to pressure lurkers.

Kop and I were working together. We had daytalk. We often voted together. My vote is not sticky as town sure. I'm constantly re-assessing my reads based on new information.

I don't know why this would make Kop more of a target than me or why masons would be killed over a claimed vig or vengeful for that matter both of who could kill them where masons can't.

The TSO vote changed because he answered my questions on Wrong Song to my satisfaction. That doesn't mean I'm townreading him right now however.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: house

I'm going back on forth on whether the guilt manipulation of silverwolf is so scummy it's town or if I'm just over thinking it. I'm willing to push this wagon along I think.

Push away.

I'm going to build a nice wall post with my case in it later, but right now I need silverwolf to look in the mirror and tell herself that house isn't town and it's ridiculous to think so

Do you believe he's vengeful or not?

[SilverWolf]

That's what I'm saying, Silver. You scum read, yet your vote easily changes. Kop's vote isn't as sporadic.

Pointless argument, actually...haha. I just think it was obvious that Kop was going to get killed over you.

I have very specific reasons for wondering why Kop was killed over me or over the claimed vig and vengeful.

It has a lot to do with my read of House and Saul both.

But thank you for repeatedly telling me how bad I am at this and how scum would want to keep me around over the other confirmed town because of that.

It's really appreciated so thank you.

[SilverWolf]

Saul's an easy mislynch. Course he wouldn't be killed. House has been setting that one up for a bit.

There was a vengeful claim?!?!?! Who done it? I vaguely remember reading it, but I forgot.

See 2585 and follow the links.

Something off with all the town PR claims. And Saul is not an easy mislynch at all unless he's lying about being a vig.

[SilverWolf]

*sigh*

[SilverWolf]

It's House being town though. He has a very good scum game. I don't think he'd pull this stunt as scum. I was trying to figure out why that game he linked rang some bells for me with his comments to me early this day. Due to RL issues, I shouldn't be too surprised that I'm distracted and didn't remember but this game finished not that long ago so I should have.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=61123

They evolve as the game progresses, you know that. When do my reads

not

bounce around as town?

Unless I'm scum, then I pretty much follow a set trajectory. I have to work on that and build more "paranoia" into my scum game. But that's enough from me about internal strats.

OK, So this is true. His reads bounce around as town and so do mine. The rest of these quotes I'm going to spoiler but they are pretty much back up exactly what he was saying in this game here 2524, 2529 and telling GM here 2543.

Spoiler:

Go ahead, lynch the newb townie. It's SOOOO scummy to ask questions and SOOO scummy to sheep town leaders.

Just be sure to lynch House tomorrow. He's your scum.

OMG, House if you are scum, I'm gonna be pissed. Of course, you'll kill me tonight for sure if you are.

What makes you think this because town is going to need help to lynch him if he's scum and I'm not here to do it.

You see this? This right here?

This is why I'm an ass towards you. This is why I have such a hard damned time working with you.

You spend the entire fucking day phase working with me on a lynch, then one single post from anybody else, people you haven't played with nearly as much as me, even, and you 180 against me.

Who the hell wants to deal with that all the time?

Go ahead, lynch the newb townie. It's SOOOO scummy to ask questions and SOOO scummy to sheep town leaders.

Just be sure to lynch House tomorrow. He's your scum.

OMG, House if you are scum, I'm gonna be pissed. Of course, you'll kill me tonight for sure if you are.

What makes you think this because town is going to need help to lynch him if he's scum and I'm not here to do it.

You see this? This right here?

This is why I'm an ass towards you. This is why I have such a hard damned time working with you.

You spend the entire fucking day phase working with me on a lynch, then one single post from anybody else, people you haven't played with nearly as much as me, even, and you 180 against me.

Who the hell wants to deal with that all the time?

You must of missed where I said this then:

Firesong could be throwing WIFOM at us to give the exact response I gave him. To point the finger at House.

I didn't miss it. The fact of the matter it is irrelevant what Firesong flips. it doesn't change my role pm.

You've been peachy keen with my play thus far, but the second the lynchee cries about it, you go all paranoid like it's RVS voting all over again.

That shit gets tiresome.

I just had to be sure. You make me paranoid. If it bothers you that much, you don't have to play this game with me if you don't want to.

Therein lies the rub. I do want to, I just wish you weren't as skittish as a cat in a bathtub.

I mean during the early game, yeah I can see it. It is what it is... but you should have me sorted by now.

Ask Titus how she pulls it off. She can figure out my alignment within 1/2 (r/l) days.

Bottom line, this is something he does as town. He also did something similar in an off-site game where he got angry with me for doubting my townread on him and he was town in that game as well.

Also, what I said in this post still stands when I went through his entire ISO to try to figure him out. 2276. The only reason I doubted him is because of the claims and the NK choices but House is right, I do tend to be paranoid enough to change my mind after hard townreading him because he's fooled me before as scum and because he acts townie as scum as well. But it is time for me to make a decision here and move on. House is a townread of mine. I'm not going to waste any more of my time on this issue.

[SilverWolf]

It's possible SilverWolf was left alive SPECIFICALLY to make her doubt all her own reads. All of that is WIFOM. Yet Boon seems to be really certain that the scum killed Kop because SilverWolf was wrong. I looked at Kop's ISO (to be fair, I didn't reread it in context, so maybe I missed something) but their reads seem to be pretty much in sync. I don't know what was said in the mason chat but the scum wouldn't know that either, so that part is irrelevant.

We were in sync for the most part with our reads and voting. We discussed everything in the PT first. I think this was obvious to anyone paying attention to the game regardless of whether or not they read the mason PT so I really don't see how anyone can determine why one of us was killed over the other with the certainty that Boon seems to have.

Boon seems to be spending the majority of his time trying to break down SilverWolf's confidence in her own reads, regardless of what they are. SW is a strong town leader and I think scum would HAVE to work that angle to try to undermine her voice and to reduce her credibility with town. I don't like this AT ALL. It's made worse by the fact that all of Boon's reads seem to be based in OMGUS regarding a strategy that was intended to elicit content from non-contributors. He's not reading the game, or he wouldn't think that I was pushing TN. Heck, he's not even reading my ISO while pushing me as a likely scum.
I still want to wait for Saul to explain what happened. But right now I'm thinking:
Who doesn't have to read the game?
Who typically adopts a condescending attitude toward people actually trying to play the game?
Who benefits by discrediting SilverWolf?
And it makes me think that Boon is scum.

I noticed this yesterday when he did it and last night. I'm not sure what Boon has to gain as town by trying to discredit me. As scum, he has more to gain by that tactic.
I also don't like how he was only picking up his play when he got pressure and then slacking off when the pressure eased. He's basically been doing what you said by OMGUSing anyone voting for him outside of the masons. He is not reading or paying attention to the game clearly. Also, he has some inconsistencies in his play and all his strange self-meta talk and excuses for not playing for awhile there was looking pretty scummy as well. He also seemed to have kind of a give up attitude when he was wagoned and claimed VT. Not sure if that part is scummy though because town can give up like that as well.

But yeah, Boon could be scum.

[SilverWolf]

You know I'm getting this overwhelming feeling that I just can't win no matter what I say. First House beats me up for doubting my townread of him, then stomps off in a fit. Then Boon says it's obvious that I'm still alive because I suck at this game basically and then Lucky, says my House read is painful and it's no wonder I'm still alive for having it.

You see? Everything I am doing is wrong to someone right now. Is this just earnest town frustration with me and House is scum and I'm blind? Is it scum manipulation by Lucky and Boon and House is town? Is House frustrated town with my changing read on him or is he using scum manipulative AtE to guilt me into townreading him which BTW is kind of a shitty thing to do IMO.

meh...............................I don't even know anymore. It makes me want to prod dodge until the day is done and hope I'm killed overnight.

I feel utterly useless right now. And yeah, it may look like AtE but I'm town so deal with it.

[SilverWolf]

Here's Kop's last reads before he died:

Let's hope Saul is thinking along the lines and aims for one of our mentions. I'm half glad he didn't announce who he was shooting, because if they somehow blocked it, they know it would go back on him. If there is no 2 deaths then Saul is gone, and he knows that.
T S O, I'm going to push hard for, Boonskiies following second. Bookitty I'm not sure about.

I'll just push for T S O, Boonskiies and Lucky, see what I can muster up.

Saul will have a lot to answer for, if there isn't a second shot, tbf

Bottom line, from dead town, scumteam of T S O, Boonskiies, and Lucky.

I'll do my reads a little later. Just posting this here now.

[SilverWolf]

@MOD:

Could we have a prod on Saul Goode and Elusive, please?

Zebulin replaced elusive. Saul is usually gone one weekends.

I am wondering about about House, Boon, Lucky scumteam right now because I really don't like the manipulation they've used since the day started. It seems off to me.

I do need to hear what Saul has to say first before solidifying the above though.

[SilverWolf]

Well, if Boon is scum, then I don't think Bookitty is. I hate saying things like that with no flip but they have been going after each other a good part of the game in a way that doesn't look like scum distancing. I am not seeing how Bookitty's theory makes her scum since I've sort of been feeling the same way.

If Lucky strongly believes House is scum and I'm wrong, he should be trying to convince me of that but his push on House is extremely weak and mostly revolves around trying to get me to change my mind.

Boon has been calling House scum for awhile but mostly just for House's wagon position and I'm not sure he even voted for him until today and now he's not any more. Boon's OMGUS reads this game are a little excessive as well.

House has also been willing to go after Bookitty at every opportunity and also was after Boon for awhile yesterday as well.

Also, Boon is scumreading Lucky as well but wasn't scumreading Ozgin when he did that quickhammer.

I'm not sure what to make of all this yet but it is something to think about. I feel like there may be a connection here but I can't figure it out for sure and I think I need to re-read these parts of the game when I have time. I also feel like some of the voting in this game is hard to analyze because Kop and I going after/voting people makes it easier for others to come along for the ride so I'll have to see if anyone was doing that excessively or not.

T S O has pushed every mislynch wagon so he could be wrong town or scum trying to get the mislynches through. It's hard to say because I thought Wrong Song and tn were summy as well. They are pushes either town or scum would be interested in which makes this hard to analyse.

Zebulin is pretty null. I was thinking elusive was town but has a lot of fluff posting so I'm not even sure on that read any more. This spot is null.

Still think Oddmusic was town and GM hasn't done anything to make me think otherwise. Saul read town but not taking his shot is just off, period. Unless he was blocked.

[SilverWolf]

*sigh*

This means House is probably telling the truth about his claim and just when I thought I had the scumteam in this group: House, Boon, Bookitty, Lucky-somewhere in here due to interactions and voting and the fact that everyone else seems independent of this.

However, scum would of shot you if one of them was on your list OR they have a RB they've been using on you so they would NOT shoot you.

I appreciate the fact that you were trying to draw the NK but it was extremely risky because you risked being lynched for your behavior.

I need to see you analyze this game and give some really good/helpful input this game day Saul.

[SilverWolf]

OK, Scumteam is House, Boon, Lucky.

If anyone has any reason to believe someone else outside this group is scum or that one of these 3 is town, I'd love to hear it this game day.

Otherwise, we need to lynch one of these 3 today.

[SilverWolf]

OK, Scumteam is House, Boon, Lucky.

Of the three, which one do you feel most confident about?

I think in this order:

Boonskiies, Lucky, House-from most certain to be scum to least. I of course, welcome all input from the rest of town on this.

[SilverWolf]

EBWOP - Why isn't TSO in this pool as a possible alternate to House? I'd like to lynch House last, if at all possible.

PEdit: I am not unhappy with that order.

He's a possibility as scum instead of House. I can agree with this and yes, House should be last, I agree with that as well.

I was suspicious of Bookitty also but I don't think she's scum tbh.

[SilverWolf]

Can we lynch me last? As I am town, I'd rather help you lynch some scum before my mislynch

Well, the main reason I'm scumreading you is because of Ozgin and PoE.

You don't have to be first.

There is a possibility that it's TSO instead of you or House-enough so that I'd rather lynch Boon first. Especially since TSO defended Boonskiies and vice versa this game.

2666-That's pretty close Zebulin.

[SilverWolf]

Reminder there is 5 to lynch. Boon isn't even close (Saul is the only vote) but just an FYI to make sure everyone has given all the input they want before it happens. We have plenty of time-I think like 9 plus days but there is also no need to drag it out either if we've decided.

I would like to keep my vote off any lynch if at all possible and instead just give reads and say who I want to lynch. That way the wagons, VCA will be easier to analyze. Of course, I will vote to avoid a NL or if we need to end the day.

[SilverWolf]

@Silver - You are way more malleable than Kop was. Your reads are changing very often, and you stick a vote somewhere and easily change it, a la your T S O vote. Plus,

House can pretty much convince you to do anything. That is why Kop was killed over you

.

This does echo a concern of mine, fwiw.

Why is it that everyone thinks House can manipulate me?

I have very specific reasons for wondering why Kop was killed over me or over the claimed vig and vengeful.

I think any remaining Town PR - if existed - would be all over you. Risk analysis suggests killing Kop is simply safer than killing you on the most fundamental level. That doesn't mean other factors weren't involved but it really could be as simple as that.

This is a good point. Scum could of decided not to take a risk that there's another protect PR protecting me and went for Kop instead. That said, they will shoot me tonight-guaranteed.

You see? Everything I am doing is wrong to someone right now.

Burden of being confirmed Town. Everyone is trying to sell themselves to you. Best thing to do is not get upset and assume you are being manipulated then base your reads on how people interact with anyone BUT you. That's how I play IC or confirmed Mason but I guess it's personal preference.

That actually is more helpful to look at the interactions of others with each other outside of what they say to me.

SW: Remember to give your ending reads before the hammer, as you're the N3 kill.

I will do this absolutely. That's why we shouldn't rush a lynch. I'd like everyone's input on what we've said here today as well and yep, I'll give my final reads to the group before the day ends. There's no doubt I'm the NK target tonight.

[SilverWolf]

What does scum have to gain by faking vengeful? I would think that would be a crappy fakeclaim.

[SilverWolf]

The reason I ask is because this is something Antihero said in a game once and I made a note of it in case I ever run into it:

Scum don't claim vengeful. They don't claim supersaint.

How you deal with the claim: you leave them around until lylo then policy lynch them if they're still there. That's what defeats a scum fakeclaim of vengeful.

When scum claim things, they claim things that will DETER their lynch, like investigatives or protectives (or a sorrowful VT claim that tugs at the heartstrings). They want to make town feel like they're taking a gamble in lynching them. A vengeful or supersaint claim won't create the same effect.

I believe he said keep them around until lylo because vengeful can't kill in lylo. So this is the best way to deal with House's claim I think.

Of course, I'm open to suggestions that say otherwise.

[SilverWolf]

Why is it that everyone thinks House can manipulate me?

I'm not saying this is the case. What I'm saying is *IF* House is scum *HE* likely thinks he can game you. See the difference? I don't know your history but that's the impression I get based on your interaction in the thread.

Oh, I've gotten this same feedback in other games and this is the reason I was wondering if House was scum and left me alive on purpose.

That said, they will shoot me tonight-guaranteed.

Yes. They have to. Sorry but you've played a good game.

Well I was shocked I was alive today. I fully expected not to be. So I am fully prepared to be the NK target tonight. I was prepared N1 and N2 for this as well tbh.

What does scum have to gain by faking vengeful? I would think that would be a crappy fakeclaim.

I'm not saying he is scum fakeclaiming for sure. He could be a VT fakeclaiming and using the vengeful claim as a middle finger pointed directly at people casting suspicion on him. Why would that be a crappy fakeclaim, though? It makes people scared to vote for him, explains why he is never a NK, and can only be proved after he is lynched if you are willing to roll the dice and lynch him anyway. It's a fairly safe/innocuous fakeclaim if you ask me.

The problem with Antihero's approach is that you are effectively giving potential scum a free pass to end game, reducing the chances of nailing scum by removing one known bad slot from the poe, and give the scum a better chance at winning the game kingmaker. I don't think Towns generally have the nut to follow through on a PL at LYLO. While I appreciate the theory, I just haven't seen it done in practice.

Well, then he should at least not be the next lynch then. After that, you guys are going to have to decide how to deal with him based on Boon's flip and other factors. If he's town and dies, he should be careful who he decides to shoot them. If he's scum, well good riddance I guess.

[SilverWolf]

Or House could actually be a vengeful townie.

[SilverWolf]

OK, 3 posts by House that say nothing and add nothing.

K

[SilverWolf]

Because you took it back. If you think he's contradicting himself by saying he thought you were fakeclaiming town, then changed it to fakeclaiming scum, you might have a point to make.

[SilverWolf]

OK, It looked like you took it back and apologized and I was wondering what the point of the question was since he still says you could be fakeclaiming town even right now. He just doesn't believe the claim. I don't get why town would even bother lying about something like that. It serves less purpose than scum lying about it.

Meh, I keep having a problem keeping things straight in this game I think.

[SilverWolf]

You know, in these games, between town lying and fakeclaiming and scum lying and fakeclaiming, I can't even tell who's town and who's scum and that's really kind of sad.

[SilverWolf]

You know, in these games, between town lying and fakeclaiming and scum lying and fakeclaiming, I can't even tell who's town and who's scum and that's really kind of sad.

This is true.

I haven't lied this whole game, but then again I've only made 11 posts.

Town should stop lying at this point if they still are

Fair enough. I'm not vengeful, but I had reason to make that claim that went beyond my own survival.

Damn it House, you made it when I had you wagoned and that's the reason I unvoted and stopped. Remember when I said this?

You better not be lying House because you pushed me in a way that felt really scummy.

That's because I had to hint that you should ask me to claim before you kill me.

FFS

[SilverWolf]

You know, in these games, between town lying and fakeclaiming and scum lying and fakeclaiming, I can't even tell who's town and who's scum and that's really kind of sad.

This is true.

I haven't lied this whole game, but then again I've only made 11 posts.

Town should stop lying at this point if they still are

Fair enough. I'm not vengeful, but I had reason to make that claim that went beyond my own survival.

Damn it House, you made it when I had you wagoned and that's the reason I unvoted and stopped. Remember when I said this?

You better not be lying House because you pushed me in a way that felt really scummy.

That's because I had to hint that you should ask me to claim before you kill me.

FFS

I had to push you to get a read on you.

Right, and you forced to say I needed to claim before I die. You wonder why there is no trust. You wonder why I change my read on you all the time. It's because you lie like this. That's why it happens. And you allow these lies to continue and they confuse my reads. And did you even stop to think that threatening me with a venge shot, that I could be a PR you are putting in danger?

And then you lay this massive guilt trip on me about not being able to work with me. Well, how the hell am I ever supposed to work with you when you do shit like this

If you are scum, then you are playing to your wincon. If you are town, it's really harmful to town which is why I don't lie as town.

[SilverWolf]

You know, in these games, between town lying and fakeclaiming and scum lying and fakeclaiming, I can't even tell who's town and who's scum and that's really kind of sad.

This is true.

I haven't lied this whole game, but then again I've only made 11 posts.

Town should stop lying at this point if they still are

Fair enough. I'm not vengeful, but I had reason to make that claim that went beyond my own survival.

Damn it House, you made it when I had you wagoned and that's the reason I unvoted and stopped. Remember when I said this?

You better not be lying House because you pushed me in a way that felt really scummy.

That's because I had to hint that you should ask me to claim before you kill me.

FFS

I had to push you to get a read on you.

Right, and you forced to say I needed to claim before I die. You wonder why there is no trust. You wonder why I change my read on you all the time. It's because you lie like this. That's why it happens. And you allow these lies to continue and they confuse my reads. And did you even stop to think that threatening me with a venge shot, that I could be a PR you are putting in danger?

And then you lay this massive guilt trip on me about not being able to work with me. Well, how the hell am I ever supposed to work with you when you do shit like this

If you are scum, then you are playing to your wincon. If you are town, it's really harmful to town which is why I don't lie as town.

Like I said, I had my reasons.

You weren't going to die. Unless you were scum.

Once I knew you were a mason, you've been the safest person in this game.

OK, I'm going to STFU now and move on.

[SilverWolf]

You know, in these games, between town lying and fakeclaiming and scum lying and fakeclaiming, I can't even tell who's town and who's scum and that's really kind of sad.

This is true.

I haven't lied this whole game, but then again I've only made 11 posts.

Town should stop lying at this point if they still are

Fair enough. I'm not vengeful, but I had reason to make that claim that went beyond my own survival.

What reason?

Are you seriously role-fishing?

Yes.

If there are any more PRs, unless they are something like Doctor, they should reveal right now so we have a better chance of hitting scum. That's what I said last post.

I disagree. All PR's should stay quiet. I can take the hit tonight. This is the best way to go.

No more claiming!!

[SilverWolf]

So there's 9 players left and 1 confirmed town, probably 3 scum, and probably 1 more PR (masons, 2-shot tracker both weak PRs). 6 town 3 scum.

Out of the remaining players, if we lynched randomly, we have a 3/8 chance on hitting scum. Given that some players (goodmorning) are looking a lot more town than others (Boonskiies), I'd put our odds higher, probably 1/2 for a rounded estimate.

Silverwolf will be NK'd, obviously.

Scenario 1: 5 town 2 scum.
Scenario 2: 4 town 3 scum (lylo)

(RL just came up. Will finish later today/tomorrow.)

OK, There are very likely 3 scum so go ahead and assume that. It's been that way in every 13 player game I've been in as either alignment. There are masons, a tracker, and a 2-shot bodyguard. If there is even one more PR alive, you should let me draw the NK and let that PR claim tomorrow. It is far better that I take the hit then whatever PR might be alive right now.

If we mislynch, tomorrow will be lylo with 7 alive and 3 scum. Given that Boon has already claimed VT and is scummy, he's the best lynch for today. When the other PR claims tomorrow, you will be down to 3 town and 3 scum to choose from and with townie people in the game still, you have a really good chance of hitting scum then.

This is ideal town play.

I will give a final reads before days end just as soon as I have some time to do it.

[SilverWolf]

So there's 9 players left and 1 confirmed town, probably 3 scum, and probably 1 more PR (masons, 2-shot tracker both weak PRs). 6 town 3 scum.

Out of the remaining players, if we lynched randomly, we have a 3/8 chance on hitting scum. Given that some players (goodmorning) are looking a lot more town than others (Boonskiies), I'd put our odds higher, probably 1/2 for a rounded estimate.

Silverwolf will be NK'd, obviously.

Scenario 1: 5 town 2 scum.
Scenario 2: 4 town 3 scum (lylo)

(RL just came up. Will finish later today/tomorrow.)

OK, There are very likely 3 scum so go ahead and assume that. It's been that way in every 13 player game I've been in as either alignment. There are masons, a tracker, and a 2-shot bodyguard. If there is even one more PR alive, you should let me draw the NK and let that PR claim tomorrow. It is far better that I take the hit then whatever PR might be alive right now.

If we mislynch, tomorrow will be lylo with 7 alive and 3 scum. Given that Boon has already claimed VT and is scummy, he's the best lynch for today. When the other PR claims tomorrow, you will be down to 3 town and 3 scum to choose from and with townie people in the game still, you have a really good chance of hitting scum then.

This is ideal town play.

I will give a final reads before days end just as soon as I have some time to do it.

Boon claimed VT?

Your strategy make way more sense then.

Yep, here.

Oh, Meh. I'm just a vt. :/

It's what I'm going to flip. Not much else to say. I don't really have anything to defend myself as if I try, it's going to seem like flailing.

So one more vote will put him at L-2. I'm just asking that after than folks hold off putting him at L-1 until I've given my final reads and then I'm fine with whatever you guys do.

[SilverWolf]

Wait!! Give me a minute!!

[SilverWolf]

Thank You Zebulin.

OK, here is where I feel town is:

-goodmorning: Oddmusic read as town to me based on a previous game we played together where he was very detail oriented and town. I've reviewed his ISO and it's very similar to that plus just reading it, looks like town posting. goodmorning has been coming off as town as well since she's replaced in. This is probably my strongest townread in the game.

-House is town and I've explained it before and I'm sticking with it. You can find it in my ISO. I've talked about it a lot.

-Saul Goode reads as town and I think his intentions were good at trying to draw the NK and almost every one of his posts is trying to figure things out and work with me to scumhunt. If I'm wrong about a read, this is where I'm wrong but I'm going to put him in town for now.

-I think Zebulin is likely town as well based on some of elusive's posting which looked similar to her town posting in other games and his posts since replacing are a lot of trying to figure out the game that comes off as town to me. elusive fluffs as town also so I'm not going to hold that against that spot and I've gotten no scum vibes from Zebulin so far

-The other town in the game is probably Bookitty but this is my weakest townread. She did have some posts that came off as frustrated town in her interactions with me and several posts where she seems to be trying to figure things out. If Boon is scum, she is very likely to be town. If he's town, re-look at her tomorrow then. Especially since, up until her recent posts, I've had my suspicions that she felt a little off. Recent posts are much better though.

-TSO is my weakest scumread and that's because I really haven't seen any strong reads from him except for the wagons he pushed which all happened to be mislynch wagons-kop (although didn't result in a lynch), wrong song, tn specifically. He was the leading push on all of these. Plus, he and Boon seem to be defending each other a lot which is relevant if Boon flips scum. At any rate, I think he needs to be looked at a lot more. Since he's going to be gone all week, you guys are going to have to look at him next day.

-Lucky is scum based on Ozgin's extremely scummy play plus I don't think he's done much since he replaced in that looks like town really. His quick move to put Boon at L-1 when I wanted to give reads first really hit me the wrong way.

-Boon is scum for all of the reasons Bookitty has already given plus myself when I talked about him here 2644 and here 2631 Most of what he has been doing is self-meta, making excuses, OMGUS reads and votes, and trying to discredit me. He already claimed VT and is the ideal lynch today.

OK, guys you can lynch if you want whenever everyone is ready to end the day. No hurry but I've said what I need to say for now. If you end up needing my vote, I can do that as well.

[SilverWolf]

Gross, I hope I'm killed before those choices come up. LOL

corn on the cob, lemonade, turkey leg-reminds me of summer

[SilverWolf]

fuck this game. fucking vt. this town is hopeless. GG.

Yeah, that's a great post Boon. Super helpful.

[SilverWolf]

At this point we already know where Boon stands. Unless someone has something else they want to say before day ends, saying nothing does more harm to town then good because it promotes apathy.

I think I can agree with Saul that while I love playing games here, and it's nice that there is plenty of time for people who are busy with RL including me, the slow pace can sometimes really be kind of a drag. Not that this game has gone that slow but it will if we keep beating around the bush here and as long as I'm alive, I'm going to try to prevent that.

VOTE: Boonskiies

L-1

[SilverWolf]

I believe he's already said House and Bookitty and Lucky scumteam.

Not sure what else you want? I understand your concern but he had a chance to do this yesterday and said fuck this game and this town and took a V/LA.

If people don't want to end the day, I'm cool with that. It would be nice if everyone in the game gave some reads tbh. But I believe it is profoundly harmful to town for days to go by with no one posting and if all that's left is to lynch Boon, we should do that then.

[SilverWolf]

That sounds fair to me Bookitty.

I do think if Boon flips scum, Lucky and TSO both need to be looked at. TSO and Boon seem to be defending each other this game enough that if Boon is scum, TSO needs to be looked at after his V/LA. I mean I'm not going to go find all the examples because this is completely meaningless if Boon is town but it's there enough that I would recommend this be examined by someone tomorrow.

You know what I discovered recently? At the bottom of the screen, where you can display posts by user, you can hit the + sign and add someone and look at multiple ISO's together. This might be good to do with Boon and TSO.

I'm not going to bother now, it's dependent on flip anyway.

I'm not seeing a huge chance of scum in anyone outside of Boon, Lucky, TSO but if I'm wrong in this group-Bookitty, Saul, House, Zebulin, GM-This is probably the order I'd look at. Expect to be in lylo then if Boon is a mislynch. I don't think he is but if so, it will be lylo. I would go ahead and massclaim if it's a lylo situation to narrow down who the scum are.

Good luck town!!

[SilverWolf]

I would popcorn. Have Lucky start it.

[SilverWolf]

I would lynch today-RL day. I don't think Boon is going to say anything else. Unless someone has something to say that hasn't already been said, ending the day today is the best thing to do.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, I'm thinking Zebulin is very town. Zebulin and GM both.

You guys can win this if you just form a townblock and massclaim tomorrow no matter what Boon flips.

GM-I know right? I've been using ISO and activity overview for forever but being able to ISO 2 or more people together is going to save a ton of time.

Someone should do that with T S O and Boonskiies next game day.

I'm really hoping I don't get to the dead zone and find one of my townreads is scum or one of my scumreads is town.

[SilverWolf]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=61072 -mason PT

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=125 -Dead PT

Thank You Aero for modding!!

You guys were great to play with for the most part and I enjoyed the game for the most part. I think you'll see most of my thoughts on everything in the dead PT.

Hopefully see most of you in future games at some point.

Thanks again!!

[SilverWolf]

Oh sorry Aero, You already posted those, LOL.

[SilverWolf]

Well gg guys. I was kinda pissed at the amount of people calling me a troll and then disregarding my reads as a whole.

I tried going after T S O for your read on him and also for his kop push which actually caught 2 scum but unfortunately it didn't work out.

I am really sorry for killing all those people. I really don't have a good excuse; I just fell in with the wrong crowd. I'm really not a bad person. I cried at every one of your funerals.

I wish I would of followed through on my push on you as well. Boon was really spot on with his read on you and House.

I am not replacing into any games without reading my slot first from now on. This was a horrible situation for anyone to have been put in

Unfortunately, you were screwed because of what happened with Ozgin. I don't think your lynch would of been avoided no matter what happened. Scum played well but town hurt themselves in many ways this game. I really wish I would of followed through on all my pushes when they were on scum instead of changing my mind and lynching people like Boon instead and falling for scum AtE and manipulation. But overall, it was still a fun game and I enjoyed it.

Aero-I loved the flavor and the ability to pick our food choices and Boon's death scene was hilarious.

[SilverWolf]

I posted it under the flavour on the last page

Mason and dead should both be there. Aero and I both posted both of them.

You can see how many times Kop and I were right and how many times we were wrong and also see me throw a pity party for myself in the dead zone. Good times.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, I actually voted for and pushed all the scum at some point in the game but always got distracted with other things. While the scumteam played well, there were some screw ups by town this game as well unfortunately.

And I really am tired of fakeclaiming town because it makes it almost impossible for me to tell when scum is fakeclaiming instead. I've dealt with that a lot lately and it really makes it hard for me to tell who's lying and who's not in games now.

[SilverWolf]

I just assume house is scum every single game. You should do that. He's literally always scum.

I am never going to trust him or work with him again in any game ever if we play together again. Even if he claims cop and has a guilty and that person flips scum. Even then I won't believe he's town. This game pretty much sealed the deal on a constant House scumread from now on.

That's what happens when you use certain tactics as scum. You may win, but you ruin any chance of ever being able to get anyone to believe you in any other game from that point on.

I never emotionally manipulate people as scum. That's not to say I don't get emotional sometimes, but I don't manipulate. It's not my thing. I also never lie as town.

I think it would be best for everyone to just assume I'm an eternal townie from here on out.

[SilverWolf]

Boon was really spot on with his read on you and House.

This is one of the problems with being a lurker, though. Even when you're right, you haven't built up the cred to be believed.

Boon needs to either cut down on his games or do something about his lurking because he's mislynch bait in every game he plays. If he would of been more engaged or fought his lynch harder instead of giving up or gave us more content, it might of been a different story with him. Who knows?

[SilverWolf]

i mean,
boon was clearly town by the end of D1
lots of people who eventually got mislynched were

in fact every single mislynch was just shameful

Yes, and I'm sure if you were in the game, you would of led us to perfect victory and lynched scum every time. I know, I know.

[SilverWolf]

It's real easy for people to talk and judge when they aren't actually playing the game.

[SilverWolf]

I was fucking emotionally manipulated, yelled at, called a liar, called a dumbass, told to shut up when no one is talking to me, a townie decided to quickhammer someone before they could claim, a PR self hammered himself, and another townie who lurked out most of the game and gave up when he was up for a lynch. I fully accept that town deserved to lose here but I do not accept that the mislynches were shameful.

[SilverWolf]

i mean,
boon was clearly town by the end of D1
lots of people who eventually got mislynched were

in fact every single mislynch was just shameful

Yes, and I'm sure if you were in the game, you would of led us to perfect victory and lynched scum every time. I know, I know.

I don't want to sound arrogant, but I think that in this case your statement is essentially correct. I never would have lynched Wrong Song or tn or boonskies. Just from having those townreads and being adamant about them I'm sure that I'd have landed on scum eventually simply by PoE.

I don't mean to insult you. I made a lot of mistakes in this game, too. But the mislynches through D3 just wouldn't have happened to a more experienced town that also just happened to include riblet and boon and tn. :/

That's fine. You have a right to your opinion.

[SilverWolf]

You know Psyche, maybe if you would of spent more time scumhunting and less time arguing with me over my mason claim for pages on end, we might of lynched correctly D1.

[SilverWolf]

Doubtful.

You were lynched because a majority of people in the game found your play scummy. It's as simple as that. It sucks that you had to replace in and get lynched and I sympathize with that but you can't blame us entirely for your mislynch.

[SilverWolf]

k.

How the hell did you peg me so quick, man?

I thought it was obvious because I saw a clear connection between you and Bookitty. The voting pattern is what did it for me.

It's a reason I've been trying to stay hidden in early game. I don't want to get tunnel vision like I usually do. If I come in strong Day 3, it lets me get a mindset of replacing in, which I've been strangely super accurate at reading scum with. I believe I'm rather good at scum hunting, I just don't know how to not look scummy while doing it yet.

Your reads were spot on, you did great. I have a problem with trying to lynch lurkers as town. It's something I need to work on since most of the time they are town. :/

[SilverWolf]

I was fucking emotionally manipulated, yelled at, called a liar, called a dumbass, told to shut up when no one is talking to me, a townie decided to quickhammer someone before they could claim, a PR self hammered himself, and another townie who lurked out most of the game and gave up when he was up for a lynch. I fully accept that town deserved to lose here but I do not accept that the mislynches were shameful.

It's easy to be manipulated. It's part of the game. Happens to everyone. I don't feel I would have been lynched if Zebulin didn't replace in. I love Zeb, but our playstyle together always makes one of us look super scummy, even if we're both town. I'd like to be scum with Zeb one of these days.

I agree, manipulation is part of the game. I have a problem with people taking it too far with the emotional manipulation because that works incredibly well with me but it also causes a lot of resentment from me as well. I really don't like that tactic. I'm accepting of pretty much any other kind of scum ploy but that. It's just a personality thing with me.

[SilverWolf]

Doubtful.

You were lynched because a majority of people in the game found your play scummy. It's as simple as that. It sucks that you had to replace in and get lynched and I sympathize with that but you can't blame us entirely for your mislynch.

No I was lynched because it was a scum driven wagon. And it was because every single scum was on me. I had different opinions than everyone and no one liked that. I didn't believe SG's claim because it was pretty fucking transparent from Choof's ISO he was lying. I had meta on almost all of the players, but kept most of it under the radar so to speak. The only two/three players I didn't seem to have a good grasp meta wise was Kop, Choof and Eclusive. Although I was actually sheeping your read on her tbh due to your offsite history

Yeah, and that is something we should of looked at harder after your lynch. Like I said, I did go after T S O some but again, I'm not sure why I kept backing off on the scum in this game after going after them instead going after mislynch bait. Probably a combination of me not wanting to be wrong as town not having all the answers and a skilled scum player talking themselves out of a lynch. Oh and all the other distractions in the game-side dramas.

[SilverWolf]

Also SW you're bashing psyche for his arguing over the mason claim. Yet would there honestly been a different lynch D1? Honest question.

I'm not trying to bash people. I'm honestly annoyed by my play this game for several reasons which I outlined in the dead PT. I think the lynch would of been you or Ozgin-both mislynches. It is all too common for town to be mislynched D1.

[SilverWolf]

You know Psyche, maybe if you would of spent more time scumhunting and less time arguing with me over my mason claim for pages on end, we might of lynched correctly D1.

Sure. Like I said, I made a lot of mistakes. Getting killed N1 was one of the clearest ones.

But mistakes aren't a zero sum game.
I don't feel like a better player by saying that that the town failed in this game; I'm as good or bad as I am regardless of how Mini 1655 turned out.
And you shouldn't feel like pointing out my flaws as a player somehow makes this town's failure less real.

It doesn't make this town's failure any less real. We all screwed up including me. We all also did some things right. We should be giving credit to the scumteam as well for winning.

The best thing we can do is just learn from this. Accept that we can't win them all and move on. I just had to get some frustration out of my system. It's nothing personal. I'll get over it.

[SilverWolf]

n i get a read on someone
townies really do play in a detectably different way from scum
i don't think i believed that for a long time, because of the research i've done
but now i'm sure

They do in some ways for sure but in other ways it's hard to tell the difference because a townie might be playing scummy or a scum player might be acting really pro-town.

It's a learning game. I've still got a lot to learn as both alignments.

[SilverWolf]

I mean, I think it's already sort of obvious that I can't see into the hypothetical future. It should also be clear from how D1 turned out that I didn't really have a strong enough grip on the game's course that I could have pushed a PoE rationale for a lynch anyway on D2.

I think the more realistic thing I'm imagining is a scenario where I was a vig N1 instead of a tracker looking to be replaced. I'm confident that I'd have shot one of you that night less out of any one scumread than out of a lot of other townreads. That's all I really mean when I say that SW's statement was essentially correct.

Makes sense.

[SilverWolf]

Then your comment of 'might have lynched correctly D1' to psyche goes out the window. You still would have lynched wrong. So it's not fair to say the crap to psyche when you just said what you said right here which makes your comment to him false.

No it doesn't. If there wasn't all the other crap going on D1, then it's possible there would of been more time spent scumhunting and less time with people pointlessly bickering with each other and I'm including myself in that.

So it is still possible that we MIGHT have lynched correctly but probably not regardless.

[SilverWolf]

I think it's okay for SW to be angry at me. I'm saying rather provocative things and did give her a lot of trouble while I was in this game.

I'm just lashing out in general at some of the crap that happened in this game. You were only a small part of it. I'm not really angry with you.

[SilverWolf]

Doesn't matter.

If oz was lynched D1 instead of me I bet I would have been lynched D2. The end game result would have been the same IMO.

It's easy for you to make that assumption now but you really have no idea how it would of turned out if it was Oz over you. The end game might of been the same but maybe you would of had more time to convince us you were town and it wouldn't. So what exactly is your point here?

[SilverWolf]

Also T S O's push on SG should have been a hint that he had role copped SG N1.

I mean I just don't know. Maybe it's true, I should just retire from mafia as a whole. I mean it's not fun for me anymore. I think in the last few months there's only been one game that I was happy about and it happened to be a scum game of mine, but I mean with shit that happened I couldn't even be happy about it.

Ummm...................that's a huge stretch for us to assume he was a rolecop because he pushed Saul some. We all thought Saul might have been lying. And yeah, I can understand being frustrated. You are not the only one.

[SilverWolf]

Then your comment of 'might have lynched correctly D1' to psyche goes out the window. You still would have lynched wrong. So it's not fair to say the crap to psyche when you just said what you said right here which makes your comment to him false.

No it doesn't. If there wasn't all the other crap going on D1, then it's possible there would of been more time spent scumhunting and less time with people pointlessly bickering with each other and I'm including myself in that.

I used to think this was a thing. But, like, wrong song's lynch was more than week before deadline. The town had loads more time to scumhunt, so the narrative that pointless bickering harmfully reduced that resource just doesn't seem credible.

Instead of time, an alternative hypothesis might explain the bad lynch as a consequence of wasted or lost energy or endurance. People just couldn't be bothered to look/wait for a better lynch. I do feel like that happens a lot, especially in crowds of people who believe in the first place that D1 is essentially a crapshoot or that lynches should happen with some distance from deadline.

But for that narrative to work, we should see evidence of people wagoning Wrong Song more to end the day than because they think he's scum.

Ozgin hammered WS. Gotta remember that. One thing I've learned the hard way, don't put people to L-1 in games unless you really want their lynch right away. Because there are way too many lolhammers lately.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Wrong Song

Yeah, just gonna go ahead and save my own ass.

oh that's how wrong song died
okay i sort of just blame ozkin for the end of D1 then

Exactly, there ya go.

[SilverWolf]

GM I love you.

I didn't have the chance to tell you that before, you're a great person. 10/10 would play with again <3

I feel the same way about GM.

I think she's awesome as a person and a player. Would love to play with her again any time.

[SilverWolf]

But everyone else voted WS just because they were confident he was scum.
I think D1's mislynch just happened because people had bad reasons and the scumteam piled on supportively to convince those people that they didn't.

I can agree with this for the most part. But it's hard to have excellent reasons for scumreading a person on D1 anyway when you think about it. Unless the scumteam sucks or the townie does (neither of which was the case here).

[SilverWolf]

And what a surprise that the two people I'm scum reading the most are the first two to react. Nice.

Using the power of coincidental timing to try to doubtcast our posts simply because we happen to be online.

Nice.

I hate this...so much....haha.

Ha Ha, good one.

[SilverWolf]

Actually, there was absolutely no chance of lynching scum D1. If it hadn't been Wrong Song, it probably would have been tn (and ozkin would have hammered tn pre-claim). And if it hadn't been tn, it would have been some other VT who was playing rather poorly. Their ability to perform town in tandem with a tendency among the town to treat "antitown" as synonymous with "scum" is probably the best story of D1.

I'm gonna stop caring after this draft.

NOW I AM FINISHED

OK well, I don't even disagree all that much with what you said.....................so there!!

[SilverWolf]

I should have been lynched. Ozgrin was terrible. I shouldn't have even tried to live really. Strategically it would have been better for town.

Actually, we should of lynched you right away instead of Boon to make lylo easier. I didn't even think of that but it possibly could of helped. You had a tough spot to try to save. Pretty much an impossible task for you really unfortunately.

[SilverWolf]

Also, keep a look out for my upcoming Game of Thrones large theme!

Since I already know what you are doing with it and we've discussed it, I probably can't play but I would love to spectate this one please!!

[SilverWolf]

Aero? I'm not an alt. lol.

S'all good, man.

In other news, I nominated Aeronaut for Best Flavor here. He really deserves it!

I 3rd already since Zebulin already 2nd it!!

[SilverWolf]

I'm sorry I wasn't more successful at finding scum. By the time I was on to House it was too late and he wouldn't have even been a viable lynch.

I think the best thing I did was to come in and make my slot about as obv-Town as I could. I know some of you have questions about my fake vig claim. All I can tell you is that it was the fastest way to clear my slot and that it drew the RC. If Psyche hadn't been the NK I would have considered that much more of a success.

I think the worst thing I did was lose interest in this game. This site is a LOT slower than I'm used to and I found it difficult to stay engaged. So my major failing is that once I stop engaging in thread I lose track of what's going on and miss details that might prove useful later. I need to be conversing with people in real time and when that doesn't happen I just lose my focus.

Also, since the game is over I have to say this; Aero? I'm not an alt. lol.

Yeah, I had a townread on you despite your fake vig claim because when you did post, you were pretty obvious town. Felt the same about GM and Zebulin and Psyche.