Mini 1655: Delicious Mafia (Game Over, Perfect Scum Win!)

[Psyche]

optimal actions to take?

Act really, really town.

[Psyche]

Even with that contorted logic, it's still a lie~

No, it is not. I did not lie. Period.

Yeah you did. You said something that you knew directly contradicted reality. That is what lying is.

psyche town lie at times, are you going to get over it and move on or do you need some taylor swift to introduce you to the vagaries of the real world?

The reason I'm telling SW all this isn't to massage my faith in humanity honey.

sw, I get what he's saying even though its a stupid point. psyche, what should she have done? run around screaming "I'm a mason brah?"

Oh, I dunno. What do VTs do when people vote for them? I guess they all just get lynched, huh?

[Psyche]

elusive, my problem is he's trying to discredit me right now and it's scummy

WTF good does it do except piss me off?

Why is he insistent on trying to show that I'm wrong and he's not?

How does that help town?

Why not talk about this post game?

I'll tell you why? Because he's scum and trying to distract from scum hunting.

You're voting for me for bad reasons. And I'm going to pick at it for as long as you keep doing it. So...get used to it?

[Psyche]

Also, it's scummy to you guys for me to care about pissing other people off, huh??

[Psyche]

elusive, my problem is he's trying to discredit me right now and it's scummy

WTF good does it do except piss me off?

Why is he insistent on trying to show that I'm wrong and he's not?

How does that help town?

Why not talk about this post game?

I'll tell you why? Because he's scum and trying to distract from scum hunting.

I'm scum trying to distract from scumhunting by making you pay attention to me?

[Psyche]

Oh, I just wanted a moment to be a little vindictive.

[Psyche]

I'm done. But if I read one more bit about how me being friendly is evidence of scum play. If I read one more claim that sounds like endorsement of the idea that being petty, that being an ass, that being uncompromising, that caring more about how others respect your play than about how much fun everyone is having — that these were are, protown plays — this is the Psyche that everyone will get. I can be like this page after page after page and I can avoid getting lynched for it, I promise. This is not a game about how big anyone's dick is and I will not keep playing nice guy every single time someone tries to turn it into one.

[Psyche]

I'm serious.

This will make things easier for everyone.

I am going to make it obvious that I am the vig. And I'm going to shoot Psyche in the face tonight.

BUT, I won't bother confirming that I'm the vig until after the mod shows Psyche's flip.

He'll learn a hard lesson through tough love about the difference between obvious and confirmed and that will be a valuable take away going forward in his mafia career.

No charge.

I'm also a town PR. So keep playing that game if you want.

[Psyche]

Saul, you're really arrogant. Even when you try to be a helpful person, you can't help but do it with this attitude of superiority that keeps you from really experiencing actual compassion. You only know how to look from above.

[Psyche]

I'm done. But if I read one more bit about how me being friendly is evidence of scum play. If I read one more claim that sounds like endorsement of the idea that being petty, that being an ass, that being uncompromising, that caring more about how others respect your play than about how much fun everyone is having — that these were are, protown plays — this is the Psyche that everyone will get. I can be like this page after page after page and I can avoid getting lynched for it, I promise. This is not a game about how big anyone's dick is and I will not keep playing nice guy every single time someone tries to turn it into one.

Who is this directed at?

WTF did I ever do to you, to make you think you have the right to be a complete ass to me?

Why, you were the last straw, not the very worst. You decided to play the blame game and I decided I would play along is all. Why do you think it's okay to place all the blame for your claim for me, but when I do the converse I'm an asshole?

[Psyche]

Okay, so I lost my cool and took it all out on you in some sort of extended OMGUS. It started with ozkin and just snowballed and I broke every single principle I planned on outright advocating this game. I didn't like the way choof was just pushed out, and it felt like the same things behind his replacement were just repeating over and over again with riblet and then with tn and ozkin and finally with your claim/vote in conjunction with Saul's insistence on rubbing the whole situation in I just decided to press buttons that I've gotten too good at pressing over my time on the internet. I didn't want to make a point, even though that's how it turned out. I was demoralized and lashing out.

[Psyche]

oh don't worry sw we can work together now

[Psyche]

but this game's been toxic for a long time...

[Psyche]

sorry i am still maybe lashing out a little

[Psyche]

i'm not really a town pr by the way
i'm just sort of a mediocre person

[Psyche]

well i could be but i'm taking back the claim
*jazz hands* mysteryyy *jazz hands*

[Psyche]

SW - Do I come across as arrogant to you?

You're not really arrogant. You're confident. "Arrogance" is just a word people throw at confident people to when they disagree with them.

[Psyche]

no that's not true arrogance is something else

[Psyche]

you picked out your alt's schtick really well

[Psyche]

I'M SORRY AERO
I DIDNT MEAN IT
WHEN YOU THINK OF ME DON'T THINK OF ME
THINK OF BLAZIKEN

[Psyche]

please do not do that

[Psyche]

estival
estival
please come back and tell him to please not do that
sw
sw i bet you can call him off i bet you can tell him not to do that if you have it
tn
tn i will not vote for you if you can stop him from doing that though i doubt you will decide to or are capable of stopping him from doing that unless you are a roleblocker as is a common ability for scum to hold
saul
saul!
don't do that i am sure that we can do amorous, forbidden things together under the moonlight if you do not do that
i am skilled in fifty sorts of verbal pleasure as well as verbal pain and can put one or the other or both into some sort of S&M love concoction for your secret enjoyment if doing so will keep you from doing that

[Psyche]

is it a reference to the tv show that i am not caught up on because if it is i will catch up on it right now if you do not do that

[Psyche]

thank you mr goode sir for not doing that and sw for keeping him from doing that

[Psyche]

do you guys think ozkin's campaign against me comes from a place of scumhood?
its tone reminds me more of a tea partier than a RINO, if you understand that reference

[Psyche]

hello tn!
tell us about your life philosophy

[Psyche]

i am dissatisfied

[Psyche]

Not too much I disagree with there.

[Psyche]

i mean
there isn't a single player in this thread who couldn't simulate a reads list as scum
but i don't know where to go from that

[Psyche]

okay

[Psyche]

you disappoint me ribbly one

[Psyche]

that's such an asshat thing to say

[Psyche]

willing to go for boonboon
even though i'm sort of suspicious of saul i don't want him dead today

[Psyche]

If he's town, we need him is all.

[Psyche]

Also, my meta means nothing, so can't use it against me, can't use it to defend me.

Eh, I'm more active as scum usually. The only reason I possibly lurk is because real life has a lot, and being in 7 games and modding 1 is A LOT. I can link some of my scum games and show just how active I am as scum?

Town I'm usually super active post D3.

I'm usually more active as scum.

Yeah, I've been restricted to phone stuff for the past few days and have been pretty inactive throughout the site. Lurking isn't alignment indicative for my meta. I should have V/LA'd. I think I can sit down tomorrow and really catch up on my games.

I know I've been inactive, but I have had company over the past couple days. I'll be more active in the next coming days.

bruh

[Psyche]

I feel that people that accuse others of flailing are more likely to be scum than those they accuse of flailing.

i showed this once
using 'science'

[Psyche]

i was about to post that you seem to be an angry guy

[Psyche]

vote boonboon

[Psyche]

There are enough ogzkin votes by legitimate people that I might be okay sheeping even though I doubt he's scum.

[Psyche]

who is the proactive scum??

[Psyche]

Ozgin and Wrong Song wagons look good, Boonskiies makes me think he might be town

he's relying too much on his shitty meta to survive

[Psyche]

I'll join my own wagon later because that's how much I care about this game. LLL.

if you don't care about this game, why are you playing it?

[Psyche]

people like aero are why i can't make a program that automatizes vote count analysis

[Psyche]

boonboon's mad because i don't set my reads in stone

[Psyche]

On top of everything, he's using my playstyle being weird, loud, and obnoxious as a reason to vote me. That's the weakest, easiest mislynchable thing I ever have seen! Geez, scallops and potatoes man...

i didn't call your playstyle weird loud OR obnoxious amigo
i think those are terrible reasons to lynch people

[Psyche]

when do i start flailing boonboon?

[Psyche]

Also, my meta means nothing, so can't use it against me, can't use it to defend me.

Eh, I'm more active as scum usually. The only reason I possibly lurk is because real life has a lot, and being in 7 games and modding 1 is A LOT. I can link some of my scum games and show just how active I am as scum?

Town I'm usually super active post D3.

I'm usually more active as scum.

Yeah, I've been restricted to phone stuff for the past few days and have been pretty inactive throughout the site. Lurking isn't alignment indicative for my meta. I should have V/LA'd. I think I can sit down tomorrow and really catch up on my games.

I know I've been inactive, but I have had company over the past couple days. I'll be more active in the next coming days.

bruh

i really

am

100% town by the way

[Psyche]

no i am 100%

Psyche, meh stop messing with me. Why is ozgin not scum or scummy?

i just smell authenticity!
of course i always smell authenticity at the wrong times
can't trust this nose!

[Psyche]

psyche point out the scummyness in those posts from boon plz, like help me see what you see...also your nose-session is like making me thing like your into like bloodhounds or someting...

tn, like its so hard to know where your thoughts come from..like why?

oh i don't know if it's scummy
but it's ridiculous and incoherent!

[Psyche]

VOTE: Psyche

No way this kid's town. Sorry, but absolutely no way.

when it becomes obvious that you're wrong
i bet you'll still be the sort of person who confidently guesses scumteams after skimming threads

[Psyche]

like what are you not following about boonboon i am making the same couple of points over and over again

[Psyche]

i do think you're town
and am not voting for you
but i'm supposed to do things to make sure and make obvious

[Psyche]

i guess that you only ever tunnel?

[Psyche]

60/40

[Psyche]

so i am!
now you make a bit more sense!

[Psyche]

Also, my meta means nothing, so can't use it against me, can't use it to defend me.

so if this is true why do you talk so much about your meta?

[Psyche]

i wonder what happened to ozkin's scumreads on bookitty and tn

[Psyche]

you're wasting something

unvote

i wonder what happened to ozkin's scumreads on bookitty and tn

[Psyche]

too many blind spots

[Psyche]

oh!
wrong song is riblet
that's why my townread

[Psyche]

i have too many townreads
today simply must end in the death of someone i feel like is town

[Psyche]

like, i just remembered my tn townread

[Psyche]

we should probably lynch one of boonboon, tso, house, or saul
but the political will's not there

[Psyche]

like i said

[Psyche]

i wasn't chatting with you tso

[Psyche]

we should probably lynch one of boonboon, tso, house, or saul
but the political will's not there

reason, reason, reason, reason

connect the dots between my posts
i have too many townreads
all else equal, is it more likely that i'm being fooled by someone like tn or by someone like saul?

[Psyche]

like, i just remembered my tn townread

Why?

well i was skimming through my iso

[Psyche]

tso, when i have a point that i really need you to understand, i'll signal it by using proper punctuation

pedit: sw that is also the problem i have with me right now.

[Psyche]

You also haven't explained -any- of your townreads, so we're still at square one. We're not back to it because we never actually moved off it.

that's another one of the obviously false things people keep saying about me

[Psyche]

i mean if i were wrong song and scum i'd still be pretty genuinely frustrated right now

[Psyche]

i really don't see how someone like riblet could flip scum

[Psyche]

scum don't replace out over being called trolls and bad players
especially when they aren't even up to be lynched

And when I asked not to be called a troll and the mod issued a warning, that crossed the line even further. Imnsory I'm not going to stand by and get insulted when I've done nothing wrong.

don't you guys remember how often riblet cried some variant of "but I've done nothing wrong!"?

[Psyche]

i am town

[Psyche]

Yeah, I've done the exact same thing as scum before and won. It's called being caught for the wrong reasons. I don't think you could have cited a nuller example if you tried, Psyche.

there was no real wagon on riblet
in what sense was he "caught"?

As for replacing out - the atmosphere was incredibly hostile towards him. Scum don't find that fun either, and Riblet did not seem like the most tenacious little player.

are you serious?
is this how your sincerity detector works?

[Psyche]

I have to say, more and more, I am getting a sinking feeling that Psyche is scum white knighting this wagon.

at least you're probably only half-wrong

[Psyche]

Oh, now I see why you're so worked up.
You don't have to worry; you won't get lynched today unless you do something else that's scummy.
I would unvote you, but I'd rather be sure that you're town first. It's up to you to make it move!

Is this to me?

1. I'm not worried about getting lynched ever
2. Something else? I haven't done anything scummy yet.

my post wasn't directed at him, but i think this underscores my point that the "caught scum" reading is really inadequate

also

Yeah, I've done the exact same thing as scum before and won.

does the basis of your riblet read

really

include the assumption that riblet plays scum at the level that you do?

[Psyche]

it won't happen eventually

[Psyche]

i am psyche

[Psyche]

I understand that the fence can be an advantageous place for scum to sit
but I'm not going to pretend to have positions I don't just to make you feel more comfortable about my slot

[Psyche]

you actually believe saul's claim?

[Psyche]

who are you an alt of, wrong song?

[Psyche]

ooh, serial killer
if saul is nk immune that would almost make sense

i'm not going to force you to out yourself
i am ~jordan`

[Psyche]

mustve been graveyard shift

[Psyche]

if you do shoot me, it's your mistake, not mine

[Psyche]

No, I didn't say you could be an SK fake claiming Vig; I said the opposite.

[Psyche]

Claiming vig is a dead strategy for an SK. It almosts works, but it doesn't.

[Psyche]

That's one of the reasons I was also pushing for the WS wagon, he did also make a post aimed at me and how he felt uneasy by my vote on house, even though it was common knowledge I was a mason alongside SW, and then went onto say that is why he was working with her, then begs the question why bring my name into the mix? If a post feels uneasy but is person is confirmed town, surely you would push it to one side?

i don't really see any reason why being unaware of who's confirmed town is more of a scum thing than a town thing; it seems idiosyncratic and null

[Psyche]

oh i see
that's not the issue

[Psyche]

oh but when sw does it she's playing a wifom melody

[Psyche]

oh but when sw does it she's playing a wifom melody

Oh stop it, you...

im not a pr
unless i am
but i'm not
though i could be
okay im not
but maybe i am

just don't vig me it would be bad

[Psyche]

oh ozkin

[Psyche]

ozkin's not scum, guys

[Psyche]

Yeah, You might want to elaborate on that and why you keep town reading scumreads after everyone scumreads someone.

well your scumreads are kind of bad

[Psyche]

Oh, good. You would know. K, guys, we don't need to lynch Ozgin. Lynch Psyche tomorrow.

as long as you don't vig me

[Psyche]

my shit?

[Psyche]

sigh

[Psyche]

huff

[Psyche]

i mean,
boon was clearly town by the end of D1
lots of people who eventually got mislynched were

[Psyche]

i mean,
boon was clearly town by the end of D1
lots of people who eventually got mislynched were

in fact every single mislynch was just shameful

[Psyche]

i mean,
boon was clearly town by the end of D1
lots of people who eventually got mislynched were

in fact every single mislynch was just shameful

Yes, and I'm sure if you were in the game, you would of led us to perfect victory and lynched scum every time. I know, I know.

I don't want to sound arrogant, but I think that in this case your statement is essentially correct. I never would have lynched Wrong Song or tn or boonskies. Just from having those townreads and being adamant about them I'm sure that I'd have landed on scum eventually simply by PoE.

I don't mean to insult you. I made a lot of mistakes in this game, too. But the mislynches through D3 just wouldn't have happened to a more experienced town that also just happened to include riblet and boon and tn. :/

[Psyche]

we should probably lynch one of boonboon, tso, house, or saul
but the political will's not there

i learned a lot from this game, and another that happened right afterwards
even though for me accurate reads don't happen instantaneously,
i'm still good enough at reading people and understanding myself that i don't have to exclusively play backstage helper
as long as i stay vigilant for tells from the people whose wagons i'm pushing, i can allow myself to be more confident when i get a read on someone

townies really do play in a detectably different way from scum
i don't think i believed that for a long time, because of the research i've done
but now i'm sure

[Psyche]

You know Psyche, maybe if you would of spent more time scumhunting and less time arguing with me over my mason claim for pages on end, we might of lynched correctly D1.

Sure. Like I said, I made a lot of mistakes. Getting killed N1 was one of the clearest ones.

But mistakes aren't a zero sum game.
I don't feel like a better player by saying that that the town failed in this game; I'm as good or bad as I am regardless of how Mini 1655 turned out.
And you shouldn't feel like pointing out my flaws as a player somehow makes this town's failure less real.

[Psyche]

i mean,
boon was clearly town by the end of D1
lots of people who eventually got mislynched were

in fact every single mislynch was just shameful

Yes, and I'm sure if you were in the game, you would of led us to perfect victory and lynched scum every time. I know, I know.

I don't want to sound arrogant, but I think that in this case your statement is essentially correct. I never would have lynched Wrong Song or tn or boonskies. Just from having those townreads and being adamant about them I'm sure that I'd have landed on scum eventually simply by PoE.

I don't mean to insult you. I made a lot of mistakes in this game, too. But the mislynches through D3 just wouldn't have happened to a more experienced town that also just happened to include riblet and boon and tn. :/

You can't say that. You're making the assumption that the game would have unfolded the exact same way if somebody else had been NK'ed instead of you, and that assumption alone shows why I do not believe why the game would have turned out any differently if you had been left alive.

You don't consider every angle.

I mean, I think it's already sort of obvious that I can't see into the hypothetical future. It should also be clear from how D1 turned out that I didn't really have a strong enough grip on the game's course that I could have pushed a PoE rationale for a lynch anyway on D2.

I think the more realistic thing I'm imagining is a scenario where I was a vig N1 instead of a tracker looking to be replaced. I'm confident that I'd have shot one of you that night less out of any one scumread than out of a lot of other townreads. That's all I really mean when I say that SW's statement was essentially correct.

[Psyche]

I think it's okay for SW to be angry at me. I'm saying rather provocative things and did give her a lot of trouble while I was in this game.

[Psyche]

Then your comment of 'might have lynched correctly D1' to psyche goes out the window. You still would have lynched wrong. So it's not fair to say the crap to psyche when you just said what you said right here which makes your comment to him false.

No it doesn't. If there wasn't all the other crap going on D1, then it's possible there would of been more time spent scumhunting and less time with people pointlessly bickering with each other and I'm including myself in that.

I used to think this was a thing. But, like, wrong song's lynch was more than week before deadline. The town had loads more time to scumhunt, so the narrative that pointless bickering harmfully reduced that resource just doesn't seem credible.

Instead of time, an alternative hypothesis might explain the bad lynch as a consequence of wasted or lost energy or endurance. People just couldn't be bothered to look/wait for a better lynch. I do feel like that happens a lot, especially in crowds of people who believe in the first place that D1 is essentially a crapshoot or that lynches should happen with some distance from deadline.

But for that narrative to work, we should see evidence of people wagoning Wrong Song more to end the day than because they think he's scum.

[Psyche]

VOTE: Wrong Song

Yeah, just gonna go ahead and save my own ass.

oh that's how wrong song died
okay i sort of just blame ozkin for the end of D1 then

[Psyche]

But everyone else voted WS just because they were confident he was scum.
I think D1's mislynch just happened because people had bad reasons and the scumteam piled on supportively to convince those people that they didn't.

[Psyche]

Actually, there was absolutely no chance of lynching scum D1. If it hadn't been Wrong Song, it probably would have been tn (and ozkin would have hammered tn pre-claim). And if it hadn't been tn, it would have been some other VT who was playing rather poorly. Their ability to perform town in tandem with a tendency among the town to treat "antitown" as synonymous with "town" is probably the best story of D1.

I'm gonna stop caring after this draft.

[Psyche]

Actually, there was absolutely no chance of lynching scum D1. If it hadn't been Wrong Song, it probably would have been tn (and ozkin would have hammered tn pre-claim). And if it hadn't been tn, it would have been some other VT who was playing rather poorly. Their ability to perform town in tandem with a tendency among the town to treat "antitown" as synonymous with "scum" is probably the best story of D1.

I'm gonna stop caring after this draft.

NOW I AM FINISHED