Mini 1660 - TTH's Mini Normal (Game Over)

[Thor665]

welcome. given the state of things you're probably best sheeping me.

Okay - what are your reads, I'll sheep them immediately!

[Thor665]

So you're scum?
Okay - who are your scumbuddies?

[Thor665]

Hi Thor. I'd do the traditional attempt to lynch you for lols but it's probably MYLO with a vig. Skold is probs scum, but I've been too lazy to actually post a case. Scissors is claimed vig and Sland is claimed non-specific investigative, so they're probs town.

Okay - has it been a mass claim, or are people just derping around not doing that and rando-claiming?

That brings the lynch pool to you, me, Skold, Wrong Song, Formerfish, and Archmage Ludicrous.

Not really, since I'm Scissor...so...re-assess your own pools

I think you're one of the more likely scum out of that bunch, but there hasn't been much in the way of alignment indicative content, so...

Archmage is a pretty recent townread, in that he actually appears to want to solve things.

Okay.

Anything specific you care to know?

Sure;

1. Why the sloppy thoughts from you and not paying attention to who is in slots you claim to have cleared?
2. Who has advocated massclaim - have we massclaimed?
3. Were their investigation results claimed by Sland? If not - why do you table him?
4. Have you been a lurksack this game?
5. What's up with the Wolf head thing claiming scum?

Go!

[Thor665]

Wolf head is getting tired of this town's Smurf. Wolf head is getting tired of Smurfy cases being taken as fact.

Replace out then - or stop complaining and play the game? Bad cases are a thing - they happen a lot.
Why is the case on you bad?
Who do you think is scum besides yourself?

1. Ehhh. Two replacements, I can be forgiven. Switch you and radicalmadman in all those lists then.
2. Slandaar, and yes. Everyone other than you guys claimed VT.
3. He claims his results are null, but the manner in which he went about massclaim was pretty town (He softed an action before anyone claimed) and I'm more than willing to see what comes tomorrow. Added to the fact that Doc/Vig is pretty weak for town... I think him being town is more likely.
4. Yeah. Sorry bout that.
5. Either he's town who is counting on you to shoot scum tonight or he's scum who's seen the writing in the sand and gave up on fighting. I see a Smurfton of bad posts from him, so I'm leaning towards the latter.

1. Ehhhh - okay.
2. So, Doc/claimed Vig/Claimed 'investigative/something' v. who the hell knows. Okay, Sland can be town.
3. Agreed - though it was silly to let him go last if he suggested massclaim - but I agree about the balance as currently stands.
4. Lurcksack you roughly equates to scum you - thoughts?
5. What about his posts is scummy? He seems to be claiming that there isn't a case on him - I see that happen a *lot* so tend to believe him that there isn't, prove me wrong? And if you can't - isn't the wagon then pretty bad - so why support it?

It's been a massclaim. Everyone claimed vanilla except Scissor and Slandaar. Scissor is/was vig. You should know that.

Why? I haven't read gak yet.

Slandaar claimed mysterious other power role, but they claimed last, so it's a meta-clear. I guess. I'm uncertain on it, but I'll buy it.

Don't get too excited there.
Who do you think is scum and why?

but he's the second closest we have to confirmed town—first place going to you.

I am painfully obv. town or an SK is the worst balanced game ever - so I'm obv. town.
So this game will be quick for me.

4. Have you been a lurksack this game?

I know that you aren't asking

me

this question, but I didn't contribute much early game.

Why not?
And do you think that's alignment indicative of yourself?
If not - could you explain why you're telling me this? Clearly you're trying to show me something - what is it?

Come on Thorsie read the thread. Let me know when you have come to a conclusion about who is scum.

Okay Slandy-wandy. I don't really read games on replace - I'm pretty sure you're aware of this.
I am looking for scum right now.
What are your thoughts on the question?
Do you like the case on the wolf head dude? Or no? What about Anti scum? Yea/nay?

[Thor665]

I am aware which is exactly why I told you to read the thread Thorsie worsie. I do like the case on the wolf head dude - it was brilliantly written by a very wise fellow.

Slaandarina - could you sum up the case on him?
I keep asking people for it, maybe you could do so?

Unfortunately I don't know what you mean by Anti-scum so that will have to be left unanswered.

I mean - do you think Anti is scum?
I have no idea how to phrase that more simply.

My thoughts on who are scum can be found by reading the thread which you should do; it's quite a short read or at least read today's posting.

Dude - you are aware that I am town, I am in a painfully obv. town slot. Stop dicking around. I'll read what and as I deem the need to - I don't need to read the thread to have you state your reads. This is silly.

[Thor665]

Look, Thorella, the case is beautifully written within this days posting. Maybe you should go and read said posting to find what you are looking for.

SO - basically you suck at pushing your own cases. Copy.
I'll get to it eventually then, maybe.

I don't know who Anti is? Jingle?

Oh, yeah, I do mean Jingle, not Anti. Do you see Jingle scum?

I deem that today's posting is important so you should go and read it.

If anything important happened - summarize it.
If you can't - then it probably wasn't that important.

[Thor665]

Well, I would argue not, I think had I pushed to lynch Skold he would be lynched by now but I slowed the game a little to try and get others to post. Unfortunately during this time 2 players vanished which led us to this position.

Why do you want people to post if you're not looking to talk to them?
Whatevs.

It is possible, but I think not. Is he Anti?

I do not follow the question at all - re-state?
Why do you think he's town - is it just the interaction with Skold?

I assume you know to shoot tonight?

I'll assuredly shoot on a town lynch, I'll likely shoot on a scum lynch also, but maybe not.
Is there anyone, besides yourself and Archmage(?) you think I shouldn't shoot?

That he should read the thread, I mean. It's far more useful to get him caught up and start posting relevant information.

A shocking concept.

Thor, I've got work shortly, but I'll try to make a cohesive case on Skold tomorrow. Seriously, I'm kinda worried I'm confbiasing at this point because I've held the read since p1.

I'm kind of worried that people can't describe their cases to me - but I will admit that seems to be a thing in site meta nowadays.
I presume because you need to type it up that it is *not* Slaandarina's case - yeah?

[Thor665]

His posts from the point I replaced in certainly lack that vibe - do you presume he's giving up at this stage?

[Thor665]

Pisskop voted himself...

What the *HELL* is with people nowadays? When did that become "meta acceptable"? Why are people fething morons who don't understand their own wincons?

Vote: Wrong Song

[Thor665]

Vote Wrong with me till then?

[Thor665]

Why?

Because I think he makes an immense amount of sense as scum based on the vote counts.

Why? I haven't read gak yet.

I meant that you should know that you are vig.

Don't see what that has to do with me asking about whether a massclaim had happened or not.

I don't think Skold is a good lynch, I kind of feel town for him.

How come - he looks like he's given up after only moderate pressure on him, and even encouraged me to vote for him. If he's town - he really sucks. So why do you think he's town?

Wrong Song is feeling ill because of low activity and reasoning.

Okay - what reasoning?

I'm not sure on Jingle.

Do you disagree with Slaandarina's proposal that either Jingle or Wolfy are scum?

Weak scum on fish.

I agree that Fish looks iffy.

I think we lynch the Collatz replacement, and if he's scum, you vig someone else. If he lynches innocent, you kill Skold. There's the possibility that neither of them are scum, but I don't think that's very high.

How come?

the fact that the Collatz replacement is keeping quiet is making me feel more like lynching them—I think they could be waiting for the storm to blow over before posting. I would like to hear from them, anyways.

They've been the replacement for...what, about 24 hours now? Are you seriously thinking that this is them lurking out as opposed to, I dunno, having a long day of work and a planned night of drinking with friends?

Going and looking at his profile - he has been on the site since replacing in. He managed one post, of one sentence, in one other game.
He is currently in multiple games.

Looking at that I suspect, already, that I will loathe his playstyle and commitment to games - but I don't see why I should take it as scummy.
Clarify?

Why not?
And do you think that's alignment indicative of yourself?
If not - could you explain why you're telling me this? Clearly you're trying to show me something - what is it?

Not really trying to show you something. I guess maybe I was trying to segue into a conversation I've been looking to have?

Okay.

I'm not new to the game, but I haven't played anywhere with nearly so established a meta or nearly so good players for a long time. I've never been able to figure out what to do in the early game, only it the late game when there's information. Do you have any tips on that?

On how to play early game?
Push people, ask questions, make statements. The goal, in my opinion, is to try to make people react to other players and offer opinions, attacks, defenses (and votes) about other players so you have that info later. Then you lynch someone. That's all I ever do at least.

So are we now seeing your amplified game of being involved, or are you still considering this early game?

[Thor665]

I think that his case on Collatz is a lot more appealing than lynching him. I'm not going to discount that he really has given up hope—he's a new player. I think we can provide the chap some allowance for some misplays. And more to the point, he's at least been doing scumhunting, unlike Wrong Song, Collatz, and fish. They're my current scum team, though there's some room for doubt. fish did a little something some time back, as I recall, but still, dat hammer.

What is wrong with FF's hammer?
What is good about Wolf's case on Collatz?

Yeah. It's totally possible that both are town, and given who's been scumhunting and who hasn't, I think it makes sense for them to both be town.

@Slandaarina - a solid gold example of talking to people and advancing your case right here. Especially if he's your best non-massclaim town read, y'know?

@Archmage - I suppose you'll edjumacate me on Wolf's scumhunting when you talk about Collaz. How has Jingle been scumhunting - he admited to me that he's been a lurksack, and thus far all he's done is sheep me and make promises of eventual cases. He's been more pro-town than Slaandar insomuch as he quoted stuff he thought was important...but...scumhunting? What am I missing?

I think that with Jingle as my stronger townread, going among Skold, Collatz, Wrong Song, and fish for a good townread, Skold is the best fit.

Weren't you just calling Skold townish though? Why not ask me to shoot Wrong Song, or even Fish, both of whom you find scummy?

Smurf, it's only been twenty-four hours? Feels like longer. I dunno. Active-lurking can be a good way to let suspicion blow over as scum: the town can be fickle, and you can deflect attention without looking scummy by waiting just long enough for people to be looking the other way. Anyways, having been a replacement and not even saying "Hi" rubs me the wrong way. It's like he's waiting for us to stop paying attention. I don't like it, but I will admit to having a confirmation bias on this.

....

Yeah no.

Thor I basically proved that Skold was Smurfing scum because he wasn't hammered, or it could potentially mean that Jingle is scum. The fact that Skold wasn't hammered in LyLo makes him more likely to be scum in my eyes, hence the vote.

I fail to follow, and considering that I think, at best, one person is currently voting for Skold (are even you voting for Skold right now?) I am unsure how you "proved" anything at this juncture.
Could you link your case?

I already outlined reasons why I have TAL as town. He hit a pretty strong towntell at the start of D3. Slandaar is pretty town for the way he's approaching the game.

What was TAL's strong towntell?
Slaandar's play isn't particularly townish that I've seen, but I will admit I bring out the stubborn in him and lock him up mentally. I thought he was town mostly off his claim - you had him as town before that?

I don't care if you vig me during the night

Why not? If you're town that would be a fething terrible shot if I did it.

, but I'd be happier with you vigging either Collatz or Fishie, but for all the Smurfing good in the world vote Skold. He's been ignoring this Smurfing game like wildfire, he knows he's caught, he knows that there's nothing he can do.

Why do you say he's ignoring it?

Lynch it, it flips scum. You vig in the scumpool the game is won.

I would agree, if we lynch scum and I shoot scum then the game is won for town.

[Thor665]

I and Jingle were both voting Skold earlier in the day when everyone was active before replacing out.

Well...Jingle is currently voting you - so my guess is you didn't sell too many people on the case.

I don't really have a case on Skold other than PoE.

Okay. I guess I'd like to see that PoE work - y'know, if it proves he's scum. Could you link it or describe the PoE so I understand the proof? It would probably benefit you to describe it again - as noted, Jingle has forgot that it proved Skold was scum.

It might be a terrible shot because I'm town, but at the same time I'm not helping either.

I thought you indicated belief that you had found and proved Skoldscum - isn't that helping?

I'm demotivated from the game, I'm mislynch bait. I'm probably the perfect vig shot for those reasons alone, but not because I'm scum.

He's been posting elsewhere on site and is only appearing when he sees his name. That's why I believe he's just caught scum.

Oh?
Eh, a quick glance at his posts across site doesn't seem to really have this thought hold water. A look at Formerfish shows at least as much dodging - maybe more. Why is it so bad for Skold and not FF? Or do you think they're both scum?

If Skold flips scum, I'm highly saying shoot Collatz, but if you rather not listen to me then shoot me because I no longer want to be in this game. (I don't want to be lynched though because then towns Smurfed)

How is shooting you remotely different from lynching you?
It's a wasted town chance to nail scum - and you end up dead.
Seems to be the same deal - so if town is royally balled by lynching you, wouldn't we be equally balled by shooting you?

This isn't another of those 'I'mma self-vote fer town!' sort of thought processes is it?
I hate those and never understand the logic - so if it's anything like that can we just presume I called you stupid, you agreed, and stop trying to kill yourself while telling me you're town and instead just play the game ou signed up for?

[Thor665]

I forgot exactly who brought it up but VCA shows that all of those voting Skold D1 are dead. There was a player in a large game where that same point was brought up against him and he flipped scum.

I'm pretty sure you're noting Slaandarina's case here.

Lynching me will lose the game if we're in LyLo.
Shooting me will just narrow the scum pool town potentially a lot more.

We're not in Lylo unless there are 4 scum or scum have a double kill ability.

My thinking atm is we are at 8 alive.

5:3

Lynch Skold flips scum.

5:2

Vig me Flips town.
4:2

Potential NK going through (probably being you or Slandaar at this point)
3:2

Which gives us the game won.

Don't see how that changes if we lynch you (flip town) and then I vig, say, Skold (flips scum) Same difference.
The point is to lynch or shoot scum.
I also don't see how that becomes an assured town win at 3:2.

I don't understand why you can tell me that Skold isn't ignoring the game.

A search shows 4/25 of the first page of his posts are elsewhere. That's damnning in itself.

The pattern of available days to activity in the game doesn't look that bad to me - though I will happily agree it doesn't look very pro-town.
What I said, however, was that I was curious why you weren't bringing this up about FF - his habits appear equally bad.

Back after school. Sorry for giving up so easily, really Smurf about doing that.

I agree.

[Thor665]

I'll be here tonight after work.

Whoo-hoo!

[Thor665]

Very little of the players in this game have done any scumhunting and I wanted to see they had actually done some.

People don't learn to play by you walking away from them - in my experience. You either take them by the hand, or yell - but a teacher is needed.

Is Jingle Anti?

I already said he was.

I think he does not kill MD n1 if he were scum.

Why?
Also, would he disagree with it particularly strongly if one buddy wanted to and another was fine with it? I never really know how to translate these sorts of tells - he's not an SK, he's a scum committee.

Fishie.

Really? He's near the top of my list - why is he town?

It's like I said, if I wanted to push the lynch through on Skold I am fairly sure I could have. People knowing my case or advancing my case is a different topic.

Ehh...

You don't get enough credit for how amusing your posts are Thor

I used to, then somewhere in there I went from being funny to being a dick - I'm still not entirely sure why, because when I was SG I became funny again, magically. I'm pretty sure it's people pressing connotations into my words that aren't there. At least that's my working theory.

[Thor665]

Vote Count 1,4

Unlynchable

[2] Collatz, Formerfish

pisskop

[6] Jingle, Skold,

BlueBloodedToffee

,

scissorhandle

, Wrong Song,

pisskop

Skold [3]

mnemonicdevice, Unlynchable, Ponystar17

Ponystar17

[1] The Archmage Ludicrous

Not Voting [1]

Lalendra

I modified this one for you to highlight something else - what are your thoughts on Wrong Song?

Your FF quote appears to support my issue with the slot, not your town read - clarify?

The rest is stuff I don't find interesting or that Jingle already linked.

[Thor665]

I used to, then somewhere in there I went from being funny to being a dick - I'm still not entirely sure why, because when I was SG I became funny again, magically. I'm pretty sure it's people pressing connotations into my words that aren't there. At least that's my working theory.

Not mutually exclusive. And for the record you're not a dick.

No worries - i don't believe I am a dick (or, rather, though I am aware of issues with my personality - I am comfortable wih them and don't believe 'dick' is remotely the correct appellation.
I do think the level of funny v. rude/dick/jerk is pretty striking and quite mutually exclusive and also appears to be based on a sliding scale as I became more 'senior' on site. Mostly I think my exasperation and jibes come across as more hurtful when I question play choices when people think I know what the hell I'm talking about. When I was newer they could blow it off easier and/or it came across clearer as a joke.

[Thor665]

@Jingle - I rather dislike your case because it's not how I do cases. You're mostly just posting quotes with various alphabet tells attached. Meh, and double meh.

As far as your NKA - why would the scum team be killing based around Skold, why not someone else? Both BBT and Mneumonic had Unlynchable as scum. It seems really empty tell. I like Slaandarina's case significantly better.

[Thor665]

A teacher is not needed for them to attempt to scumhunt.

In a perfect world I agree with this.
Evidence suggests we are not in a perfect world.

Is Jingle Anti?

I already said he was.

No, you implied it in a backwards kind of way and I wanted clarification, you at no point said Jingle is Anti.

Well...yeah...except for the time, when answering you, I directly said that Jingle was Anti. But, yeah, besides that time I didn't do it...what?

I don't know who Anti is? Jingle?

Oh, yeah, I do mean Jingle, not Anti. Do you see Jingle scum?

I have been having a hard time getting a foothold in this game with everything that has been happening IRL, I think I would have an easier time if I were interacting with people directly. So, have at it Jingly.

Alright, why would someone want to kill MD?

I dunno. PR hunting, belief he'd mislead town, belief it gives town no info, desire to frame someone MD suspects - the usual scum reasons to kill someone other than 'they suspect me/are impossible to mislynch)
You're the one advancing the concept that if Jingle were town that MD would not be NKed - all I'm asking is why you believe this/what evidence of this you have. Gut is an applicable answer, but dicking around and tossing the question back in my face when I'm not actually pressing a narrative and town clear based on that issue is NOT.

When I am on a scum committee I generally am the committee. I think with experience and the amount of inexperience others in the game has the likely composition of said committee dictates if he is scum he should be taking lead and not killing MD.

When I'm scum committee I usually do the opposite, myself. Do we know what Jingle's habits are? Not yours or mine, but his? If he's a hardline controller than maybe your belief has some merit if you can also explain why he'd not kill MD.

He has character.

What the hell - this is a dick-off answer. Try again. Unless the answer is 'gut' in which case do me the courtesy of making that clear. I wish to understand how much to weigh the opinion, and you dorking around doesn't help me do so. Answer clearly please.

If you had read the rest of the stuff you don't find interesting you would know my thoughts on Wrong Song.

So would you support him as the lynch today over Skold?

I don't know what FF quote you mean.

If you had read your linked stuff you'd know what you said about FF - I don't get this. Here. I'll link it;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6758566
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p6761669

I really do not understand your current FF stance.

[Thor665]

Slandaar way too defensive without suspecting anyone in return

How is he being too defensive?

[Thor665]

@Skold - what are your current reads as stands?

[Thor665]

The quote you have used to demonstrate does not say Jingle is Anti. People mix names up daily hence asking for clarification.

I have such confusion about what you are asking for now, and legit don't care - so rephrase if it matters.

Eh, but then you have to balance out shooting him over other harder to lynch players. Him not being a PR is also relevant as it means their reasoning couldn't have been too strong if that were the case.

Day 1 PR hunt shots rarely are - but I don't really get the point.

Seems bad. I don't think Jingle would believe this.

Why not? And what players do you think would believe this - and is it even a theory you're advancing?

Giving town no info so shoot a possible mislynch? eh no.

I have seen scum flat out shoot players they think will give no info before - was MD an obv. mislynch option?

The reason framing doesn't hold is if MD has no influence in the town then it will never frame his suspects.

Eh - maybe - the real question is if anyone pushed his scumspects prior to you doing so. Jingle certainly is (in a skeevy and iffy way in my opinion) so...I don't really follow your issue here, I don't feel that you're really disproving many of these alternate theories - which is consequently not supporting your advanced theory.

You never like my answers Thor. You shouldn't expect different here.

I explained it to you. I think Jingle doesn't kill MD.

I understand that.
WHY do you think this?
What evidence/meta/theories supports the conclusion or is it simply rectally extracted?

I don't need to know his habbits I can deduce that if your team is going to make a bad kill you should step in.

So - gut then?

It is much harder to have character as scum than town the exception beings ome players who we will refer to as clowns have it easily as they can post almost what they want at all times, others do not.

I think he has the posting style of someone who does not fit into said clown category therefore the character in his posts is what I believe to be town.

So...you're literally saying that when people are scum they lose heir personality? Am I getting that right? If not - could you re-phrase the answer?
Because I've played with FF scum and this hardly seems unlike him to me - have you played with FF scum?

Maybe, but I prefer Collatz replacement. [as a lynch today over Wrong Turn]

Why?

My stance is he is town. That stuff was posted a while ago, in a quote later on I quoted I changed my mind. It is still interesting if you want to view some points against Fish being town.

I read the post where you flipped Fish to town, it appeared to have more to do with gaining a scumread than gaining a townread on Fish.

[Thor665]

So...basically you have no reads?
Get back to me when you have some. Because calling the two cleared town - town - is not very helpful at this stage.
My case on Wrong Song is the voting pattern - I showed off a highlighted VC to Slaandarina a page back or so - that's the case.

[Thor665]

Fish hammered day 2 without declaring intent, or giving Unlynchable a chance to claim. It's, well, fishy.

Was deadline really close or no?
If deadline was 12+ hours out then I agree this is an issue.
If not, I don't so much.

I think it's very well thought out. Brings in a lot of factors. Collatz was really quite defensive, and the replacement's recklessness isn't endearing me to him.

Isn't that Slaandarina's case on Collatz?
All Skold seems to do is go 'yeah' sorta...though he's also defending Collatz in the same breath.

Um... Jingle actually didn't do too too much, now that I think of it.

I think that with Jingle as my stronger townread, going among Skold, Collatz, Wrong Song, and fish for a good townread, Skold is the best fit.

Weren't you just calling Skold townish though? Why not ask me to shoot Wrong Song, or even Fish, both of whom you find scummy?

Shooting Wrong Song or fish would make sense, but as I see it, Skold and Madman can't be scum together because of the way Skold went for Collatz. Skold seeing himself as falling most likely would not try to toss out a teammate instead, I think. He's too fresh a player, and seems a bit too reserved for that. So if we lynch Madman and Madman is scum, we more or less know that Skold is not scum, so we don't shoot him. If we lynch him and he's town, then we can guess with a fairly high degree of certainty that he's scum, since the other town is probably Jingle. But you might be right in shooting Wrong Song if we lynch Madman and Madman is town. I'm highly confident that Madman is scum, but if he isn't, I still would probably suspect Wrong Song more than Skold.

I do not really like the way you answered this question - the new answer makes okay sense - but the new answer doesn't seem to line up with your old answer.
Do you think both thoughts make sense together?

@Slaandarina - ^^^ weigh in on this as well, tell me if I'm crazy or not.

[Thor665]

Arch, I don't know how many time I have to say this, but BBT thought he had hammered, so intent was implied. Unlynchable posted after a claim was asked for and did not claim. I am going to hammer someone in that situation 9 out of 10 times. Keep trying to make that into something though its cute.

I know that my ripped quote from Arch was taken as a joke, and I half intended it to be. The other half was meant to see how people responded to it because I kinda feel the points he brought up in his post fit him as well.

So besides empty defense - anything to add to the game?

[Thor665]

So - your top scumread is Archmage?
I'm guessing this because he's the one you've denigrated in all the posts of yours since I've replaced in, basically. So - he's top scum in your mind, yeah?

What do you think of Slaandarina's case on Skold?
What do you think of my case on Worst?
In a general sense what's your read on Jingle?

Go!

[Thor665]

Wrong's and Rational's hardcore lurk is almost a reason for me to want them dead.
Not that Jingle is doing much better.
...not that Slaandarina is doing much better...

I have a gun, people should pay more attention to my veild threats and frustrations about poor play - I can remove one of you.
Maybe I'll just shoot whoever has the least posts between now and deadline - that seems as pro town of a plan as anything.

[Thor665]

I have little to no doubt about Madman.

Why?

I wanna lynch RM cause it's RM.

I'm fairly certain that'd be true if I'd hard townread the slot before he replaced in.

You are sucking off again and not being pro-town - fyi.

Anyone picking on me is going for an easy lynch. I'm innocent and that is that.

I challenge any investigative role (unless I am the investigative role) to check me go ahead i am not afraid.

You are sucking and not being pro-town. If you haven't even read your role PM then I'd like to request that you replace out, because you clearly don't care about the game.

@FF - so hypocrisy is basically your leveled issue with Archmage?

My main problem with Fish's case is that, this could be mylo. I guess we could shoot you if he flips town, but you being wrong wouldn't make you scum. We're chancing a lot with that case.

So you like the case?

How strong a scum tell are fake town slips? I'll go visit those posts in context for now.

If it's fake - very strong.
I don't really understand the question.

I will be around later.

Please answer my last question to you when you do - thanks Lurkdaar.

[Thor665]

Why are you confused as to whether a 'fake town slip' is scummy?
What is your current thought about it and why are you unsure as to the alignment tell it offers?

[Thor665]

Also, nothing is stopping you from iso-ing Archmage (or Slandaarina for that matter) if you want to see the slip in context.

[Thor665]

I have such confusion about what you are asking for now, and legit don't care - so rephrase if it matters.

The idea, Thor, is to work together not try and argue pointless things which lead to here. I asked you a question and get some nonsense response about how you had already said something which... you hadn't.

I quoted what I said - yes, I said it.

Look it is really simple. I do not think someone who knows MD kills MD n1.

So it's not a tell connected to Jingle, but rather a tell connected to everyone - I would buy into that a bit more if there were more "names" in the game at that point. There really weren't. Arguably Jingle was the big name in the game - raising the question 'why not kill him - if he's town?'.
I don't like your logic.

I have approximately zero meta on Jingle, I don't remember him from prior games although I have played with him. If you have more information you should provide it.

I already did - just about the lurk though.

No I haven't.

And yes I think players forget to do certain things as scum that they would do as town which could be translated to they lose some of their personality.

Okay - I will rate your FF read appropriately then.

There is nothing in it. His explanation aligns with his posting.

But both answers are flat out different - how can both align?
Are they not different?
Because I am totally seeing them as utterly different answers - so it makes me feel like one was a lie and then the second one was a lie told when he forgot about the first lie. No?

I'm pretty sure you're noting Slaandarina's case here.

Everyone loves my cases.

He doesn't anymore - of course he was using it in an odd way in the first place

[Thor665]

The BBT kill is making less and less sense to me.

[Thor665]

after I said Skold was likely scum because

both

the nightkills were people suspecting him

This also makes less and less sense the more I read it.
Like, what was your working theory at the time - that scum had two kills?

[Thor665]

I'm highly confident that Madman is scum, but if he isn't, I still would probably suspect Wrong Song more than Skold.

@Slandaar - the issue is this bit.

He asked me to shoot Skold, but then admits that Wrong makes more sense as scum, but that has no connection to a set of raandom 3 Jingle/Mad/Skold. Like, if he thinks 2 of those three are scum he should, beyond all reason, be asking me to shoot amongst the two he thinks are assured scum regardless of Mad's flip.

He didn't.

Does my issue make sense to you now?

[Thor665]

I'll be here later tonight

Excellent - there is plenty for you to react to.

[Thor665]

I'm highly confident that Madman is scum, but if he isn't, I still would probably suspect Wrong Song more than Skold.

@Slandaar - the issue is this bit.

He asked me to shoot Skold, but then admits that Wrong makes more sense as scum, but that has no connection to a set of raandom 3 Jingle/Mad/Skold. Like, if he thinks 2 of those three are scum he should, beyond all reason, be asking me to shoot amongst the two he thinks are assured scum regardless of Mad's flip.

He didn't.

Does my issue make sense to you now?

To clarify - that isn't a quote of me, it' a quote of Archmage's that I quoted via highlight from a post of me discussing said quote - so read that quote as Archmage's for clarity.

[Thor665]

And he thinks 2 of those 3 are town, not scum.
I'm only half competent today, apparently.

[Thor665]

Deadline Timer: (expired on 2015-05-05 16:53:21)

[Thor665]

So basically Wrong just called v/la till after deadline.
Scum read remains.

If I can get a bit more feedback from Slandaar and (hope against hope) Jingle then we can end this day.
I feel like I'm pulling teeth here, eople - did none of you realize you were signing up for a game that encourages checking in about once every 24 hours?

[Thor665]

Why are you not voting Archmage? You made a giant case against him, and Skold seemed happy to sheep it.

[Thor665]

Also - frankly, I think the Skold scum case isn't bad, and Skold seems really focused on the 'shoot me, don't lynch me' thing, which seems like the sort of thing a scum RBer would say - you didn't pick up on that? Or you did, but decided it wasn't a tell? Or what?

[Thor665]

Am I not allowed to have more than one scum read?

I wasn't aware I said that you weren't.

I, personally, find the vla over a deadline thing more scummy, combined with reading over Wrongs iso. I do think that Arch is scum, but I feel Wrong is as well.

Do you think they make sense as partners?

I did not pick up on that from Skold, but the idea makes sense. Do you think that scum would be so brazen to put the idea of shooting one of their own just to block it?

I've seen it from scum before.

I know exactly how helpful I'm being.

Then you should know why I have an issue with it.

Unfortunately, I don't see much content arising here.

Yet I do see a lot of 'would like Jingle's input here' commentary and then little follow up.
Things are happening - you're not addressing them and are instead chasing a policy lynch.

we're not going anywhere without a lynch to push things forward.

So your solution is to try to start a new wagon based on policy?
That is the opposite of an actual solution to that listed issue.

Also, I thought there might be an SK. (Which, tbf, I haven't completely discounted, I just realize that it matters approximately 0%)

Doc has been dead since Night 1 and I am a claimed Vig who claims the Doc kill.
How in the hell are you expecting an SK at this point without calling me it?

First of all, did I actually say ''shoot me, don't lynch me''?

You are correct - it was Wrong Song.

Second, why do you think there to be an RBer in a game with 3 PRs?

3 PRs all capable of targeting other players in ways that will negatively impact scum - why *wouldn't* I think there was a scum RBer?
They put scum RBers in versus 2 town PRs.

But you might be right in shooting Wrong Song

He also said that prior to saying what you highlighted.

So, eh, I have no issue with it.

It blatantly lacks logic - that's the issue.
Like, he was saying 'these three players have, at most, 1 scum, and thus these 2 have to be scum. Let's lynch and shoot within the 3 and ignore the 2'.
That is so weird as a mental place to be as town - it is the opposite of good play. You find that 'Eh, fine'?

Also, Anti posted in this game saying he is the backup mod, this was some next level joke or he isn't Jingle? Thorsie are you smoking something you shouldn't be?

I still really fail to understand this question or what it's even going for. It wasn't a joke, I already clarified it as not, and I'm not currently high...so...what?

That was Wrong.

That is correct.
Would you like to vote him with me now?
I promise to have Skold as 1 of my two potential kill shots tonight if you do.

Thor read all that.

Done.
Not sure what I was supposed to get out of that though. If you want me to agree that the Colladz/RA slot is iffy - done and done.
Beyond that, I've got nothing.

[Thor665]

Do I even know you?

Hint: no one cares and you're voting mostly confirmed town.
Could you play the game please?

[Thor665]

So that is someone who admits to playing bad in this game, and you...are you admitting to playing badly too? If so - keep caring. If not - play the game.

As to Slandaarina - he's a claimed PR for one - and there was a massclaim - and only 2 people claimed PRs, and 1 PR is dead. So unless you think we're playing a 13 player game with only a Doc and a partial Vig then it's kind of silly to be voting Slandaarina.

Do you have a case on him even?
I mean, you clearly haven't read much of the game if you're unaware there was a massclaim, so...is there a case?
Or are you voting him for 'reactions'? (and...he already "reacted" to you...so if so, why aren't you reacting back yet?)

Could I get some reads from you? That would be awesome.

[Thor665]

@Archmage - could you vote Wrong today though? I promise my kill shot is 100% going to be within your scumteam if he flips town.

[Thor665]

I am being scumread for wrong reasons. I am deeply offended and am going to cry about this.

Okay.

In the meanwhile - reads?
Reasons for vote on Slandaar?
Admission of just liking to troll games?
Anything?
What the heck are you doing here - you don't appear to be playing th egame, and you're not trolling in an interesting way, so...?

[Thor665]

@Mod - request force replace of RA unless he actually at least pretends to play or begns to troll the game in an interesting manner.

[Thor665]

I would much rather lynch Wrong than shoot Wrong.
I am happy to consider shooting Fish or Skold.

[Thor665]

I would much rather lynch Wrong than shoot Wrong.
I am happy to consider shooting Fish or Skold.

Why?

To which - the lynch or the shots?

For the lynch: I have stated the reasoning multiple times over the past few days - I think he's dropped potential RBer hints, and thus am loathe to let him get to Night Phase alive.
For the kills: Meh, basically they look scummy and sucky to me. Reasons stated in my posts today.

Since we seem to be calling full scum teams, and it makes sense: Archmage, Madman, WrongSong in that order.

Since only one of those is a viable lynch today - why not vote Wrong Song? There's not much time left in the day phase - and scum are the ones who would be looking to derp the lynch up. SO show that you're town and vote Wrong.

[Thor665]

Lynch Threshold: 5
Deadline Timer: (expired on 2015-05-05 16:53:21)

Tick tock, tick tock.

[Thor665]

Thor, how many votes are there on Wrong already?

I think three - but since he's already claimed, all I want is to make sure there are enough to lynch him.

[Thor665]

And he also already checked out of responding to my case on him, and also on offering any thoughts. So there's no point in waiting for that either.

[Thor665]

Both confirmed town are voting the same player and we're having a hard time pushing a lynch through.
This is either scummy for Wrong, or scummy for all the people ducking the vote.

[Thor665]

Or both, I suppose - I'm an equal opportunity paranoist.

[Thor665]

Skold [1] Wrong Song
Rational Madman [1] The Archmage Ludicrous
Wrong Song [4] Thor665, Formerfish, Slandaar, Jingle
Slandaar [1] RationalMadman
Archmage Ludicrous [1] Skold

Not Voting [3]

Lynch Threshold: 5
(expired on 2015-05-05 12:40:00)

Unofficial VC. Timer is a few minutes low on purpose.

Hammer before that hits.

So who else wants to get in on the wagon?

RA the lurksack fail troll?
Skold the 'time to push an Archmage case with...no real case per se' other than defending FF?
or Archmage, who decided to help push a case based off bad play rather than scummy play while ducking me multiple times when I was pushing him to lay a vote on scum-face Wrong Song?

C'mon guys, the wagon o' win is leaving the station - town should be on it. Heck, scum should be on it to try to salvage a bit of cred. Failure to be on it is a scumcalim at this stage.

[Thor665]

Why though, Thor, is the RM lynch so abhorrent to you?

It's not - it's just not really exciting either.

You obviously see my point or you wouldn't be trying to WOTC him.

WOTCing someone and lynching them are two massively different viewpoints to hold.

Also given the worry about Skold telling people to shoot him that you've expressed, why aren't you pushing for him.

I mixed up Skold and Wrong in my head - I am pushing the correct one.

And on the note of thinking there's an SK in addition to you, I don't. I think it's possible that you're an SK depending on the strength of Slandaar's investigative power and the power of the scum team. And it doesn't matter because SK here and town here have the same out: getting rid of the scum team.

[Thor665]

FTR, this wouldn't be the first game where I've played a suboptimal LYLO for the Smurfs and giggles it brought. That dubious honor goes to a newbie where Thor managed to catch me out.

I hope I chided you for it

I was just excited to get to be a Vig - I never get to be a Vig, I think this is only the second time it ever happened.

[Thor665]

Or maybe the first, come to think of it.
I know I've only ever been a Cop once.

[Thor665]

FTR, this wouldn't be the first game where I've played a suboptimal LYLO for the Smurfs and giggles it brought. That dubious honor goes to a newbie where Thor managed to catch me out.

I hope I chided you for it

I was just excited to get to be a Vig - I never get to be a Vig, I think this is only the second time it ever happened.

You didn't. And for the record I thoroughly enjoyed that LYLO. RayFrost was fun as hell to argue with.

Oh gawds, RayFrost - I miss playing with him.