Well, the soccer thing is annoying and one of them is scum.
VOTE: pisskop
Mini 1660 - TTH's Mini Normal (Game Over)
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In post 16, Jingle wrote:Well, the soccer thing is annoying and one of them is scum.
Clarification, ONE of them is scum. At most. This isn't the kind of scum discussion I'd expect to spill over into the thread. The only possible exception would be BBT/Unlynchable, because they're both mostly reactionary. I still don't think that's likely.This is a Parachute.-
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Second Clarification: That only applies if this is single ball. Given what I know of TTH, this is probably single ball. Also, probably not broken by massclaim (although not certainly).
Piss should elaborate.
Skold is scum.
MD is MD, meaning I'm going to default to townreading him until he does something especially damning.
I'm gonna disappear for a while, I expect five pages tonight when I come back.This is a Parachute.-
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In post 19, Skold wrote:You seem to be under the impression that RVS banta is serious business. I see no reason for town to be this highstrung.
You seem to be under the impression no knowledge can be gleaned from RVS. Why?This is a Parachute.-
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In post 27, mnemonicdevice wrote:Do I know you Jingle?
Don't worry, I'll help with the five pages.
Also, why is Skold scum?
@Pisskop why "maybe not scum"
why that phrasing?
We've played before. I was scum, you were a mislynch. I lost in LYLO to deciding I wanted to take both Thor and Ray into LYLO when I had an easy win otherwise. I'm pretty sure we've played before other than that as well.
Skold is scum because there is more scum motivation than town motivation in his posts. I'll elaborate later.
In post 28, pisskop wrote:
Thats already too tryhard.
Im arguing against the light assertion that Skold is scum. Jingle is saying that given his actions thus far he has a higher than average chance of flipping scum. Im not as sold.
Pisskop may be scum. :/
In post 29, Skold wrote:I'm scum? Please do go on. I'm not under the impression that no knowledge can be gleaned. But I'm not looking at the voters instead I look towards the silly people like you that slip up when something unnerving hits them.
I really don't get the purists that think that a little bit of banta in RVS is scummy. Can I not have fun? I think that you're just upset because your username is only relevant one month a year
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holy fuck that is one hell of a pedit, jesus you guys latch on: If I am scummy in your eyes, VOTE ME. Not voting based on your conclusions is scummy.
Other than that, not much of relevance has been posted.
Banter doesn't have to be alignment indicative, no, but banter to the exclusion of all else usually is. And you managed to miss the point of my statement. And my username is based on a sketch comedy show, not Christmas, so...
No. Maybe later.
If nothing of relevance has been posted, make content of relevance. Don't bitch about it. Bitching about how other people don't do things is an excellent way to hide the fact that you're not doing anything.
In post 30, pisskop wrote:unvote
vote: Skold
@Jingle
Lalendra and I have 2 completed games together. I was ribbing her about her being a scum in one and a scumspect in the other.
Interesting.
PEdit, one of those four, but probably not more than that, is scum. I'm leaning Skold/Pisskop atm.This is a Parachute.-
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In post 34, Skold wrote:Is an early random lynch common practice in mini normals? That actually sounds hilarious. I can't believe I haven't signed up to one of these before.
Not more than other queues and probably less than larges. In any case, why are you worried about that at L-4?This is a Parachute.-
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In post 25, Unvotable wrote:In post 21, Jingle wrote:That only applies if this is single ball. Given what I know of TTH, this is probably single ball. Also, probably not broken by massclaim (although not certainly).
NRG wouldn't let a game broken by massclaim through regardless
Yes it would.
I've seen normals that can be broken through massclaim, but are otherwise balanced. The point is that it's difficult to figure out whether massclaim benefits scum or town more, and TTH is more likely to make it benefit scum IMO.This is a Parachute.-
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In post 88, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:16 - Jingle, one of Collatz/unlynchable/myself are scum and then you vote for Pisskop...yeah...what?
21 - Hoping you elaborate on why Skold is scum. Despite still voting Pisskop.
This wording right here feels off.
Yes. I voted for Pisskop. Because I didn't have a clue which of you was scum. On the other hand, pisskop recently told me that he's never lost as scum, and I wanted to change that.
I'm not going to elaborate on Skold being scum right now because I don't want him lynched. If people are gonna sheep me that hard when I don't post any reasoning or a vote, I'm gonna keep my reasoning until twilight. Plus, there's the added point of no one else even pointing out reasons, so there's a chance for bullshit detection where they could just copy me otherwise. Or at least until I decide he's a better lynch than whatever seems to be happening.This is a Parachute.-
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In post 109, Collatz wrote:In post 107, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
In post 77, Collatz wrote:
Unlynchable is pushng this quick lynch thing way too hard. Therefore unlynchable is scum.
This is not a slam dunk trait for scum.
I know, but I do find it suspicous.
It's actually more likely that he's a troll alt. Which, sure, I'd lynch. But scum first.This is a Parachute.-
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In post 125, pisskop wrote:Umm no. Thats anti-town to self-murder on page 5, with so little info.
We've come a long way from two days and three pages ago. Can we get on with lynching him yet?
Wrong Song wrote:Let me apologize for calling you an idiot for self-voting, that was uncalled for.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, don't apologize for calling it a duck.This is a Parachute.-
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In post 226, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I don't like that post from Jingle.
It's like you think both kills came from the same faction.
VOTE: Jingle
I...
What?This is a Parachute.-
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Okay, first. We've come to the joint conclusion that I'm not an idiot. Good.
TTH here is not nearly enough of a sadist to give the same scumteam two kills in a normal.
That means we've either got an SK or a vig, and given her lack of enjoyment in the SK role in a game I modded, I'm leaning towards vig.
Now, that leaves me trying to figure out who would've shot each individual, which we should both know I do.
My question is, where does the jump from "You look like you think both kills came from the same person" which is untrue lead to the conclusion "You're scum". That logical leap doesn't make any sense, and I expect better from you.This is a Parachute.-
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EBWOP: My question is, where does the jump from "You look like you think both kills came from the same person" which is untrue lead to the conclusion "You're scum" come from?
In post 227, Skold wrote:VOTE: Jingle
You're going to need to stop declaring your reads without explaining them. D1 you just declared me scum with little to no explanation. Now you say that the ISO's of the victims point to me being scum. Explain yourself.
Sure. The ISO's of the deceased lend suspicion to you. Pony's has suspicion of BBT. As far as my original suspicion, that's fairly simple.
Here he ignores the byplay between the soccer people.
And here, he joins in, after I expressed my belief that only one of them was scum.
I think that this is likely scum.This is a Parachute.-
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In post 252, Wrong Song wrote:Jingle feels town, I wouldn't lynch there at all if I were you.
Is TTH fucking with me? Are you all scum?
UNVOTE:
I need to do some thinking, and unfortunately, I've already hit the hallucination point of sleep deprivation so you're not getting that from me tonight.
On the other hand, every single vote so far this dayphase has been awful, so we're off to a great start.This is a Parachute.-
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In post 260, Skold wrote:Baaa. OMGUS. Whatever you want to manipulate this to be. He's voted without explaining shit far too many times and I think he's trust trying to confuse the fuck out of us. Besides my current vote is on someone for not explaining shit, and this person is doing it worse. Why go after certain areas of Europe for being socialist if the commies are right next to you just over Alaska. Yayy late night shitty analogies.
Seriously, what do I still need to explain, with the exception of my thoughts on BBT?This is a Parachute.-
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My current tin foil theory, by the way, is that one of Scissor and Skold is scum. If it's Skold, his vote is probably a bus vote. I have no problems with lynching Unlynchable, with the understanding that it is solely a policy lynch. I don't think he's more likely to be scum than town, and you're kidding yourself if you do. But he's gonna be fucking impossible to read and useless to play with, so...
In other news, we have far too many lurkers for the day to be this far along, so I'm not interested in putting UL at L-1.
@mod- Could you please prod Lalendra? TYIA!
This is a Parachute.-
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In post 263, Skold wrote:In post 261, Jingle wrote:In post 260, Skold wrote:Baaa. OMGUS. Whatever you want to manipulate this to be. He's voted without explaining shit far too many times and I think he's trust trying to confuse the fuck out of us. Besides my current vote is on someone for not explaining shit, and this person is doing it worse. Why go after certain areas of Europe for being socialist if the commies are right next to you just over Alaska. Yayy late night shitty analogies.
Seriously, what do I still need to explain, with the exception of my thoughts on BBT?
Your first vote on me, why the ISO's of the NK are somehow linked to me and BBT, if you still consider me to be scum, and if so why aren't you voting for me, and I also think at this point you should explain why you didn't explain previously. Do you want a graph of minor bullshit you've avoided explaining?
Spoiler: Answers, in quote form
As far as scumreading you, yes. Yes I am. But I have too many scumreads and not a good enough handle on the game, so I'm not pushing anything.This is a Parachute.-
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In post 330, Skold wrote:Not sure if we should do night action speculation. I've been told it's anti-town, but maybe that's only in newbie games. But I'll just remind us that two town died last night and one died this night.
Entirely situational and depends on what you're speculating about. For example don't speculate about protections or investigations unless the role in question is flipped or it breaks the game.
You guys have been slotted 3 hours today. That starts in roughly 4 hours.This is a Parachute.-
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In post 340, Slandaar wrote:Alright, I have read the thread. This game is tough and it is basically up to me to sort you all out so what is going to happen is I won't be posting what I think for a couple days while I think things through. In the meantime you can help me, Skold, post a read list and give good detailed explanations for each. Don't bother with my slot I am town and that will become incredibly obvious in the coming days.
I also suggest we massclaim. I am claiming last.
Everyone else can claim in their next post.
Hey, if I softclaim a tracker guilty on you will you shoot scum?
And no. Massclaim isn't necessary today.This is a Parachute.-
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I think he's trying to muscle the best claim position for himself, which means one of three things.
A. He's got some manner of power that is likely to get counterclaimed, and wants to catch scum.
B. He's vanilla and he wants Scum to think A.
C. He's scum and he wants to claim last in order to ensure his claim is safe.
I'm not sure which is the case yet.This is a Parachute.-
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In post 407, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:Talking about the theory of the game in general. If you want to argue that the town needs power roles to balance out with the mafia's power roles, that's not correct. It's the other way around. The town has no need for power roles, they're only added to make the town more interesting. This is a normal game. That doesn't mean "X number of power roles, no matter what." The Normal games might very well be totally vanilla: no power roles of any sort. While clearly this isn't a game without power roles, we don't really know how many there are. We can attempt a meta-clear, but it's not foolproof. Saying that it makes you "confirmed town" that there aren't more power roles is blatant falsehood.
The argument is a balance argument. And no. Mountainous is not balanced the same as games with Power Roles. That argument is frankly wrong. Also, The Slandaar suspicion is not really helping. I'd be surprised as hell if he were scum at this point.
As far as investigative roles that could not have a meaningful result, there are many. And it's not worth going into today. Sland, I definitely want to hear your reasoning on Alchemist town.
As far as Skold scum goes, I haven't had as much time as I usually do, but the general gist of the case is that nothing he's done strikes me as trying to figure people out so much as figure out whether people are lynchworthy.
Particularly, his interactions with me look like he's fishing to see if I'm lynchable. He's been calling me scum since D1, presumably because I don't expound on my reasoning despite the fact that he's never really prodded at me. He's never spent time on figuring me out, nor has he actually pushed hard for my lynch. Not to mention:
In post 330, Skold wrote:Welcome Slandaar, tell us when you catch up.
I'd like reads on these people from you:
Archmage
Jingle
Skold (myself)
Scissorhandle
Not sure if we should do night action speculation. I've been told it's anti-town, but maybe that's only in newbie games. But I'll just remind us that two town died last night and one died this night.
This post is terrible. He's fishing for options, looking where he can go where the resistance is weakest.
@Sland: I agree with you on almost everything. What's the deal with the Archmage read though?This is a Parachute.-
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Most definitely. Skold didn't really interact with him D1 until pointing out to him that the lynch had already happened. And then since then, the summation of their interaction has been Skold suspecting Archmage, pointing out what I believe to be a manufactured townslip, and then immediately thereafter saying he's been productive and useful.
I'd say it's worse for Skold, but there's nothing preventing Archmage from being a buddy.This is a Parachute.-
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For reference:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mountainous
10:3 Mountainous is horribly scumsided. Also, F2F Mafia is an entirely different skill set.This is a Parachute.-
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In post 426, Wrong Song wrote:Jingle - I think he's town. I know a bit about his meta on both accounts. So I'm leaning town there due to that.
Both accounts? Who are you that you know my alt?This is a Parachute.-
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In post 430, Slandaar wrote:In post 364, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:
@Slandaar, I'm willing to play along. Massclaim makes sense if this is Mislynch or Lose.
If today is mislynch or lose, oughtn't we to claim, then to go No lynch for the day? If today is Mylo, I don't see a single situation where going for a lynch today rather than tomorrow is a stronger play than waiting a day.
Vanilla Townie, by the way.
Archmage is town for this.
No doubts.
He claimed first and not under any duress.
Also the FOS on Blue seemed legit to me + Unvote Unlynchable was kinda townie even though could be faked.
Ehhh. I'm less reluctant to claim as scum usually, is there any other basis to your read?
Also, the analysis of skold is pretty good, but then I think we both knew I was gonna think that before you posted it. As far as me being scum in this game, I think your analysis actually paints me as more likely to be scum with Skold, but I'll admit to a little bias. And it's academic, given that I'm town.This is a Parachute.-
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Ehhh. I just can't bring myself to give a fuck about the game. Every time I look at a post by Skold, I see scum motivation and I should point that out. But it seems like wasted effort at this point. Added to the fact that the game is probably solvable given current situations....
Forgive me if I haven't been the most active.This is a Parachute.-
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That's not really an option. If we don't at least make an effort to continue the game, there will simply be more people to replace. I'll send a PM to my replacement list tonight to see if I can help TTH find somesuckersfriendly fellows to replace in, but the game cannot stall out or scum wins.This is a Parachute.-
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Hi Thor. I'd do the traditional attempt to lynch you for lols but it's probably MYLO with a vig. Skold is probs scum, but I've been too lazy to actually post a case. Scissors is claimed vig and Sland is claimed non-specific investigative, so they're probs town.
That brings the lynch pool to you, me, Skold, Wrong Song, Formerfish, and Archmage Ludicrous. I think you're one of the more likely scum out of that bunch, but there hasn't been much in the way of alignment indicative content, so...
Archmage is a pretty recent townread, in that he actually appears to want to solve things.
Anything specific you care to know?This is a Parachute.-
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In post 504, Thor665 wrote:Sure;
1. Why the sloppy thoughts from you and not paying attention to who is in slots you claim to have cleared?
2. Who has advocated massclaim - have we massclaimed?
3. Were their investigation results claimed by Sland? If not - why do you table him?
4. Have you been a lurksack this game?
5. What's up with the Wolf head thing claiming scum?
Go!
1. Ehhh. Two replacements, I can be forgiven. Switch you and radicalmadman in all those lists then.
2. Slandaar, and yes. Everyone other than you guys claimed VT.
3. He claims his results are null, but the manner in which he went about massclaim was pretty town (He softed an action before anyone claimed) and I'm more than willing to see what comes tomorrow. Added to the fact that Doc/Vig is pretty weak for town... I think him being town is more likely.
4. Yeah. Sorry bout that.
5. Either he's town who is counting on you to shoot scum tonight or he's scum who's seen the writing in the sand and gave up on fighting. I see a shitton of bad posts from him, so I'm leaning towards the latter.This is a Parachute.-
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In post 509, Thor665 wrote:3. Agreed - though it was silly to let him go last if he suggested massclaim - but I agree about the balance as currently stands.
4. Lurcksack you roughly equates to scum you - thoughts?
5. What about his posts is scummy? He seems to be claiming that there isn't a case on him - I see that happen a *lot* so tend to believe him that there isn't, prove me wrong? And if you can't - isn't the wagon then pretty bad - so why support it?
3. He softclaimed PR before anyone else went and I believe in my ability to solve games based on balance issues. That gave the opportunity to catch someone lying.
4. Lurksack me equates me who is busy IRL or disengaged with the game. In this case it's the latter. But you're right that I'm not above strategic lurking to win a game as scum.
5. I'll link what sland is talking about in a minute, but I do need to put a damn case together.
In post 515, Slandaar wrote:It is possible, but I think not. Is he Anti?
Given that Anti is our comod and we play in 90% of each other's modded games... Yes. I'm anti. You caught me.This is a Parachute.-
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In post 517, Jingle wrote:Slandaar, it is a waste of time trying to convince Thor.
That he should read the thread, I mean. It's far more useful to get him caught up and start posting relevant information.
Thor, I've got work shortly, but I'll try to make a cohesive case on Skold tomorrow. Seriously, I'm kinda worried I'm confbiasing at this point because I've held the read since p1.This is a Parachute.-
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No, although it does overlap.
I just look at most of his posts and feel like they're designed to draw attention away from himself, and I have since D1. That's the core of it, I suppose. He seems to be more worried about himself and keeping his ass out of the fire than about solving the game.This is a Parachute.-
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In post 521, Thor665 wrote:His posts from the point I replaced in certainly lack that vibe - do you presume he's giving up at this stage?
Actually I'm not sure. It's kinda why I think I might be confbiasing. I look at his posts and I can't tell the why. Which is why I'm gonna want you to tell me if I'm smoking something tomorrow afternoon.This is a Parachute.-
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Not a big fan of this. Could be scum.
Does that mean I'm scum to you?