Mini 1668 - Mafia in Bremen - Game Over!

[Arceus]

VOTE: Dialga
Where did Palkia go?
What did you do to him?

[Arceus]

Jesus, someone killed the RVS early.
BBT, is it a gift or a curse to look naturally scummy?
Anyway, the reverend.

I think you're scum.

[Arceus]

VOTE: The Reverend
Okay, now?

[Arceus]

Who's toffee?

[Arceus]

Ey, Dialga.
Creator of the universe here.
Quit destroying the lord of space and help me send reverend to limbo.

[Arceus]

Reread all these pages.
19 - by Reverend was pretty bad; he dislikes an obviously fake joke? It also looks appeasing as BBT pointed out how the self-vote was bad and the Rev suddenly pulls out this horrible reason to vote someone else. Appeasement anyone?
22 - is almost as bad.
24 - N-N-N-EWB SLIP!
33 - Someone go get me a table I can go whack my head against because of this post by Rev.
BBT is looking town so far, keeping a cautious eye on this one though. He's witty, and not afraid to bus.
39 - Rev, maybe BBT simply didn't hard scum read you as badly as you have us believe? I agree with BBT here, RVS is for wagons.
53 - Brain, was this post actually serious? Because if it is I may have to add you to my "burn in hell" pile.
57 - Dear god, it was serious! You are being really over explanatory, you can go stand in line behind Rev for lynching.
60 - This.
66 - Rev. This. Is. The. Worst. Reasoning. I've. Ever. Seen. For. A. Scum. Read. Period.
67 - BBT, are you town? Because I jolly well hope your town.
69 - RadioactiveCow, can you provide your reasoning for your BBT scum read?
71 - *Blinks* BBT was in no way shape or form using associative tells. Point.
RadioactiveCow is probably town.
77 - Ich kann auch ein bischien Deutsch. Aber Niederländisch ist besser.
82 - Danfloorboard, you look like someone I'll be able to discuss the game with without going mad.
83 - Rev, because it uh? Provides information.

Screw this, I'll read and just post why I think X is town or scum.

[Arceus]

This is amazing, anyway. Continuing reading and forming a reads list with explanations now.

Ah, Palkia. I was beginning to worry that Dialga had finally crushed you. Sadly, I was scum reading your slot I believe. Please prove me wrong.

[Arceus]

I think Reverend's mislynch bait actually, I've reread his posts and his thoughts and play (although illogical and sometimes, a little bad) his motivation is pretty clear. I also think we have a worse suspect: Rune

Let's start with Rune,
His vote in 29 is shady, he's a newb so voting while attempting to justify your vote should be expected. This just looks like one of these examples, it's only page 2 and he's already showing this sign. On it's own this is a weak tell, if a pattern however appears: then we have a case.
Oh, there's also buddying and excessive agreeing/sheeping. Let me see... Ah!

71, he claims he agree's with BBT point that Rev is too confident in his reads. He then adds the false information that Rev is using associatives for his tells. Trying to justify why he agrees, it's also funny as he's on the same wagon as Rev and he comes in and only bothers to shed doubt on Rev who is getting pushed and has a growing wagon on him. Convenient.

87 is pure newb over justification for things that aren't even important. He's also warped the story in two places: Read why he voted BBT and the second paragraph which is a blatant contradiction of an earlier post. It looks made up.

88, this is even better. He now suddenly starts building a scum read on the second largest wagon as well (like he did when runes was rising) and he tries to appease the player pushing him. He gives Dan a lovely town read and agrees with all he has said. He's also "Happy with his vote for now", maybe because BBT's wagon is still the largest?

120, yep it totally was. Now brain has the largest wagon he votes him and says that "he's not happy with BBT's wagon after looking at the VC". Maybe because he saw it had died? And that Brains had grown?
Man he's scummy.
He's also continuing the overly explanatory, appeasing post style to try and change Dan's read.

133, It gets better! Now he's town reading BBT and building a scum read on Rev! BBT was a scum read for this same interaction he mentioned this post and Rev was null. Now it's switched and BBT's town and Rev's scum. Contradiction and opportunistic.

This pattern continues in all his posts, ask me and I'll show you for any post of his.
VOTE: Rune
Newb scum trying to appease those that push him, has fluid reads that flip-flip and go wherever the main wagon goes. Only switches votes when the main wagon (which he's always on) dies and then joins the main one. Town reads people not being wagoned and scum reads all those that have a chance of being wagoned.
Tah Dah! Scum found!
Also, Palkia. I was mistaken, I was town reading dan and he got replaced.

[Arceus]

I'm willing to bet my balls he's scum.
And that because of this Rev and Brain are probably town.

[Arceus]

Oh, fudge.
But Brains play is also really scummy :/
Wait, I need to look at him again.
(Awaits the rant that I said he's likely town earlier using pre-flip associatives)

[Arceus]

Arceus used judgement. Rune is guilty, it's super effective!

[Arceus]

Your town palkia, I mixed up the slot you replaced.

[Arceus]

Being a legendary ain't easy, so palkia: you better work with me.
Only if we we work together can we win this as town!
Dialga's gone missing so only you remain Palkia.
You, are the last hope for human kind.

Sorry, I'm really bored.

Pr-edit:
Ooh, you've levelled up since we last battled.

And lets dance rune.

[Arceus]

I thought you replaced brain, >_<

[Arceus]

@Arceus

Your point about my 71 - did you read posts 58,61, and 66? Your argument is factually incorrect.

How was my vote for Dan joining the main wagon?

Based on your post, I don't believe you've actually read the second half of this game.

Yeah, and the story changed each time you repeated it. If it's factually incorrect, quote what's factually incorrect and rip it to shreds. I challenge you.
Also, oooOOooo. One vote that was less scummy than the rest, still doesn't explain or break the motivation in the majority of posts.

[Arceus]

Hmm, maybe you were bussing PB.

[Arceus]

What did you just post palkia?

[Arceus]

Oh, that bussing was about Rune.
Who's so obviously scum it's not even funny.

[Arceus]

1) Quote these associatives will you?
2) I'm not judging the RVS.
3) Oh, but according to your posts you were voting him for the sake of the wagon mainly. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to bring another contradiction to light, await another post.
4) But earlier it wasn't to vote him, and he only became scummy when the BBT wagon died. You also town read him suddenely without explanation. Sorry. Not a good vote.
5) Actually, a wagon of three now. Maybe you're scum with PB. Maybe not. I don't know but this vote says nothing.

Your move.
I'll go shred your BBT read progression now.

[Arceus]

You seem far too confident in your reads for this stage of the game.

I agree. Page 3 is also pretty early for associative tells to be truly indicative.

We also have to consider the possibility of multiple scum factions, right? That's my current understanding at least.

I apologize that so far I haven't been terribly in depth and mostly haven't been too analytical (and mostly critical), I've been at work all day and will be able to contribute more significantly later tonight and this weekend.

@Dan (82)

regarding your last line, I believe it assumes I won't follow up (which I plan to). You'll see over time that I plan to be posting moderately frequently and hopefully with meaningful content, so I hope that the context of my post makes more sense as the game moves forward.

I am not arguing against making associative tells, just pointing out that if anyone wants to convince me on their own opinions it is unlikely to happen so early (although, we have seen some interesting reactions so far)

I explained in post 75 why I brought up multiple factions, and I maintain that given my position it was a solid point to make - particularly in regards to early associative tells. If anyone has played multiple games in this forum and wants to explain to me why I am wrong, I'd be happy to hear about it. However, from my experience with mafia, I assumed that it is good to remind town that there may be multiple teams to look out for... how is that bad?

I also agree that having pressure on people is a great way to move out of RVS, I was simply pointing out that BBT seemed to be voting quite liberally according to arbitrary wagons which appeared on the first few pages. My vote on BBT was actually exactly for that purpose -

not meant as a strong scumread but more meant to apply pressure to an existing wagon and see what comes out of it.

Anyways, next post coming to give general thoughts on the game so far.

Read the bolded.
Caught.
Also, why would you agree with your scum read?

[Arceus]

I am wary of Brain's post 12, but this could very easily be a joke post on the first page, so I don't give too much thought to it immediately.

I think that Reverend's self vote on post 15 caused some interesting, dialogue, most notable in posts 18,30, and 33. The result of this for me is a very slight scumread / anti-town on BBT and the opinon that Reverend should be interesting to play with throughout this game - null read for now.

PB makes a poor point in 43 which gives me a slight scumread, but BBT responds well to it. PB then makes post 53 which seems overly aggressive, but then in 55 and 57 backtracks / clarifies, so I am more inclined to go with it not being a serious post.

I want to see more from RadiantCowbells, as so far the posts have seem very reactionary and not too analytical, but ultimately I don't have a read either way at this point.

I like Dannflor's post in 82 for the most part [including sarcasm] although I think he is intentionally ignoring some of my previous posts in which I already answered some of the questions he asked - this makes me feel like he could be trying to jump on a seemingly logical bandwagon and so I have a slight scumread. However, since multiple people have brought up the scumminess of discussing multiple scum-teams so early, I will be willing to drop my scumread given a decent explanation as to my mistakes / misunderstandings of optimal strategy so far.

I also like Dannflor's post in 85 as well, which makes me less confident in a scumread, but at this point there isn't exactly enough content for me to be particularly confident either way.

In general, I am happy with my vote for the moment as I believe it has potential to add to the discussion, but I will strongly consider changing it depending on how the next few pages go.

These bolded paragraphs are bad.
How can a scum read make a good point and help develop a sim read on someone else?
It's almost like, you weren't ever really scum reading him.
Also note how Rev's null.

[Arceus]

@Dannflor (and somewhat Reverend)

I think you made some decent points in response to my posts, and I agree that I did not have particularly strong scumreads at that point - at this point that would be impressive [if accurate].

The purpose of me posting what I feel could be scummy and what I feel is insufficient [and therefore null] is to hold people accountable. Obviously my comment on Jake was fluff, but he responded explaining why he hasn't posted so far yet. To me, that validates my post about him. I will be scumhunting from the pool of the 12 other players in this game, not only the 3 or 4 who are active, and so I think it is important to hold people accountable for their post count, post length and quality (PB - really not doing a great job here), etc... and not let lurking slide. And obviously I didn't call everyone out for it yet, but as we progress, if I want to see more from someone, I will not hesitate to say so.

I understand being wary of my light reads, but if there is a point in them that you actually disagree with I'd be more than happy to discuss it further.

Regarding my vote on BBT, it was essentially his own logic but applied to what I considered to be an anti-town position. At this point, looking at the vote count, I am not happy with my vote, as I both like BBT's play better and also am wary of my voting companions.

VOTE: unvote

My strongest read right now is on Brain, who has managed to post a lot but without adding any content, and I'd discourage that. At the very least, his behaviour seems quite anti-town.

VOTE: Brain

This post is pure scum

[Arceus]

I'll go ahead and do that then.
However scum aren't always scummy.
It's the little slips, they make here and there.
Not always.
I shall find them.

Also, this doesn't like an and: "not meant as a strong scumread but more meant to apply pressure to an existing wagon and see what comes out of it."

Your saying he that you voted him gor the wagon and not the read.

[Arceus]

That last sentence derped.

EBWOP: Your saying that you voted him for the...

[Arceus]

Want reads?
Radioactive
Palkia
Are town.

BBT
Less Town

Rune
PB
Scum

Rest, I'm sorting

[Arceus]

Nope,
You also dropped the read way to quickly.
You also make it that that one teeny point is the whole of my case.
Your attacking the weakest link, the one I even said was the weakest. And you've ignored the rest.

Your sudden over defensiveness also makes me happy with my vote.

[Arceus]

Facts mean nothing,
Scum love facts as they can argue with them.
However it's the motivation behind posts that show who's scum and who isn't. Not the reasoning.
Reasoning can be used as a map, to show a players motivation. But it isn't what a read should be based on.
We're not here to lynch the least logical players, we're here to lynch those that want town lynched.

Now, try and counter my motivation arguments.

[Arceus]

Also.
Give a read on me now.
So you can't warp it later after others give opinions