Mini 1668 - Mafia in Bremen - Game Over!

[Oversoul]

Why was Reverend getting so much heat for his early game? I thought he was exuding towniness out of every orifice.

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Rune

Are you serious? Page 3 and you're already wondering about multiball?

I'm not buying that from town. That sounds like scum with a team comp which suggests multiball, ie bulletproof / goon.

This is a jump given Rune's sign-up date and Rune's own explanation. Are you always this quick to judge?

[Oversoul]

Daughter has 2 soccer games, wife and I are walking a 5k on Saturday, Sunday I'm running my first half marathon, and tomorrow im chaperone on a school field trip.

I'll try to pop in every day though. Duces

Why feel the need to give your weekend itinerary?

[Oversoul]

@184 - there are several better votes than you right now. I really don't like your average post length but I'm willing to admit the possibility that I am (obviously) just biased against it.

Do you think that larger average post length means the person is more likely town?

I was reading RC as scum for her vote on Rune and then the weird whiplash onto Dan for using the word "credible". I'm not entirely sure anymore given how Dan and RC interacted.

Jake, in a vacuum, you agree that preemptively giving excuses for future behavior is scummy?

[Oversoul]

It could even be argued that rune knew it was an L-1 vote because he's keeping a closer eye on the score than the average townie is.

Not so sure about dann. He looked really bad in exchange with cowbells, but that's possibly the result of cowbells looking so good.

rune though, I'm keeping my vote there.

I went back and forth on RC so much in my head.
At first I thought the immediate vote onto Dan was rash and baseless given how many people hate meta. I assumed Dan was just one of those people. Then RC started to really dig into Dan about his specific use of "credible". I can't really fault Dan for using that word. I think it was the appropriate English word to use. I did find RC zeroing-in on that word was town thinking.

I then thought both of them came away looking town given that exchange. Reading 209 and 210 makes me think that RC is a rash player and quick to be offended, so the reaction to "credible" seems to be a less "in the moment" and more a general play style of RC.

I think RC should realize that the players of MS fall into two categories when it comes to meta. One group supports its use and thinks that meta can lead to useful reads. The other group dislikes its use and thinks that meta is not an accurate way to read individuals.

That said, RC's more recent posts look fairly town.
Rune looks pretty town too.

What I mean by that first statement is, if I have a scum read on him, I should also have one on you, because the quality of the posts aren't a determinant factor.

I'm very confused by this statement.

[Oversoul]

It seems like people like Rune and Elyse want me to "provide more content" and it would be easier if RC or anyone who has a scumread on me asks me a question about my play so far. I feel there hasn't been much that I have said so far that is scum-worthy, but if someone else for instance Axe thinks so, I am more than happy to correct them or clarify as to why I am town.

This is weird.

ok going to dedicate about an hour to start catching up. damn you all for talking so much lol

Spoiler:

You might not have played with me before, but you know me from the poker forum, and you surely know how tenacious I can be. You certainly know I'm a high content player.

This post feels off to me for some reason.

So reaction baiting is not town motivated?

self voting is a horrible way to reaction test because if you are town one thing town should never do is vote themselves. Also it's not even a reliable way to reaction test.

Anyway, I'm getting great reactions from my obvious test, despite me saying it was a test.[/quote
Please explain to me what about his reaction was bad and why it makes him scum not town

@bbt - i'm curious as to why rune is town, if you answer this later don't worry about answering it again. I'm sure ill see it.

@axehole - i'm curious why you town read him also, especially after you just buttered him up.

So I find myself agreeing with Dann on page 7 about rune and reverend

I'm here to find scum.

Or pretend to, of course.

Because I'm generally regarded as scummy no matter my alignment, I've gotten defensive over it.

Weird, I used to be the same way and I developed the attitude of not caring if people think i'm scummy. Being defensive imo is is not something i'd expect to come from someone who should be used to that.

don't like RC's vote on BBT. hopefully he explains it cause I don't get it

RC's dann vote is even worse

Taking a break at the end of page 9. More tomorow. Night folks

These posts are weird too.



Having a hard time parsing the motivation for all of them.

I had a strong town read on NotAnAxeHole at the beginning of the game, but he is steadily slipping lower and lower on my Town -> Scum ladder.

I would be okay with a policy lynch on palkia, I probably won't read anything he posts anyway... Absolutely worthless.

I read Palkia as fairly likely town. His posts may be annoying to read, but it looks like town posting rather than scum posturing.

420 is a good post! Makes me feel less suspicious of Jake.

If you are going to post something I despise so much, you got to at least back it up with some reasons. So let's hear some.

This is bad.

There is a lot of aggression in this game that I feel is completely unwarranted (BBT to Rev, RC to Dann, Jake to Havoc, Palkia to... everyone). Am I going to have to be a bouncer between all of you? To keep you guys in line?

Why was Reverend getting so much heat for his early game? I thought he was exuding towniness out of every orifice.

What?

I agree he looks town, that's not what I'm questioning.

Why did you feel that I was addressing this to you?

Pedit:

Oh! How crass you are, NotAnAxeHole.

[Oversoul]

Jake to havoc? There's been no aggression from me, if I get aggressive you'll know it.

Post 422, where I quoted. I felt that was aggressive to Havoc when Havoc has know way of knowing that would upset you.
The specific line that I quoted in the post reads as false to me. A lot of your posts do not read as genuine to me. You seem a lot less curt and in your face from what I remember of your play.

Fair, NotAnAxeHole. I am just confused that you want to scum read them both, on principle in that post I quoted?

[Oversoul]

Hmm... sitting down and doing my reads list, I actually don't have as many strong town reads as I thought... Anyway, Hostile Intent and Prolapsed Brain could do with more substantial posts in my opinion.

Town:

TheReverend
Rune
RC

Town-lean:

NotAnAxeHole
Palkia

Null:

Hostile Intent
TheDudeAbides

Scum-lean:

BlueBloodedToffee
Jake From State Farm
HaVoC

Scum:

Elyse
Prolapsed Brain

VOTE: Prolapse Brain

PB is not scumhunting. His most recent votes on Rune and Havoc have been horrible. He votes Rune for a scumslip, never points out the scumslip, does not try to get people to vote Rune, and then switches back to Havoc who he was initially voting to "ignite discussion", but now seems to be voting for... what exactly? It is still unclear why PB is voting Havoc, yet he puts him at L-1.

His comment towards Arceus also reads as fake (about Arceus feigning ignorance) as well as post 65 where he posts the eye roll emote. That does not look like a town person trying to help another player understand why the other player is wrong.

Elyse is on there because I do not think her reads/walls are genuine. She focuses a lot of her posts on Prolapsed Brain, yet does not ever vote Prolapsed Brain despite holding a scum read on Prolapsed since her first catch-up post where she says both PB and Rune are fencesitting. She is doing everything she can to note vote Prolapsed Brain. This associative relation, combined with my scum read on PB is why I think Elyse is scum, possibly a buddy with PB.

Pedit:
Ah, that is what I thought, given your signature Jake.
It is giving me scummy vibes because I actually think you're forcing a new posting style in an effort to be nicer and it is coming off as fake to me.

[Oversoul]

ebwop: to *not vote Prolapsed Brain

[Oversoul]

Forgot TheDudeAbides should do with more substantial posts too

[Oversoul]

BBT why are you asking questions to people no longer playing

[Oversoul]

Arceus replaced out. I am the replacement.

[Oversoul]

Nope, I'm not scum dude.

[Oversoul]

I don't have access to a computer now. I'll try to answer your questions as best I can BBT before the thread is locked.

I would like to know who all the pokemon alts are, Palkia reminds me of Varsoon or something.

[Oversoul]

BBT scum lean read/Rev town mainly stems from your interaction with Rev about his self vote. I thought Rev came away looking town there, but I think I am in the minority in that.

I don't think Rev would actually say those things if he was scummy. It is partly "too scummy to be scum" and also the way he handled all of that pressure on him. He didn't get defensive in a way that he would lash out at others or forgot to scumhunt like most scum do.

BBT on the other hand looked too dogmatic about the self vote discussion. You harped on that point for a long time considering how Rev answered it. The whole exchange felt like you needed something to comment on, saw an opportunity to talk, and took it.
I didn't actually think the self vote talk was meaningfully contributing to your scumhunting at that moment.
Plus, our play styles don't jive. I think I may need to calibrate my Scumdar for you or else I'm just going to naturally find you scummy but that's on me and not you. :/

[Oversoul]

Antihero? How do you know BBT?

[Oversoul]

I thought Axe was town for his comment about Rune. It appears that he, Rune, and Nikanor all play face to face together or something. I think the random compliment to Rune is more likely to come from town than scum, as Rune was facing growing pressure in that moment. Axe easily could have let his comment slide. He didn't need to make it.
I also liked his early reads list and the logic about separating reads + reasoning. Felt genuine and town motivated, like he wanted legitimate discussion on his reads/various players.

The read weakened towards the later pages because I don't like his reasoning for the scum reads. They feel canned.

[Oversoul]

You wouldn't be the first. I'm naturally scum read until people understand it's a play-style thing.

What do you think about Rev mixing up his reads, trying to defend it, then backtracking completely?

What do you mean? I didn't think he back tracked from it? The mistake looked honest but I must have overlooked how he responded.

[Oversoul]

BBT, when you do catch up posts, run me through the exact process you use?

[Oversoul]

So you don't read the most recent posts? Sometimes I cheat and do that on my rereads

[Oversoul]

Ok, that makes sense why you didn't know Arceus had been replaced

[Oversoul]

Palkia is now vying with Rev for my strongest town read hmm

[Oversoul]

abgreed, but c'est la vie

Hopefully it got us scum

[Oversoul]

I don't really think it is.
Elyse, no comment on the thread?

[Oversoul]

Yeah as much as the hammer was bad I think Palkia is super town

[Oversoul]

If PB was Mason with RC then RC would be confirmed town

[Oversoul]

Damn. Let's try something new.

VOTE: Hostile Intent

Palkia, when will we find out how you're confirmed town?

Rune, why do you think I am scum?

[Oversoul]

IMO Havoc, Oversoul, and Palkia should be lynched in that order (preference for D2, not a suggestion for the upcoming days). My initial vote D2 is for Oversoul because I think his play from this point on will make it less likely for people to vote his direction, whereas Havoc is going to be part of the scum discussion for a while, and won't be forgotten.

In other news, BBT continues to look scummy.

VOTE: Havoc

Elyse & others: Let's get the pressure on here.

You voted me because not many other people suspected me?

[Oversoul]

Read everything I said about Arceus and Dan / Arceus and Palkia. Your support of Palkia in spite of the atrocious hammer doesn't help.

[Oversoul]

fAIL

[Oversoul]

Hammer without a claim = bad

P.edit - you can say it 3 more times, I'm obviously not scum

Not necessarily. With Prolapsed, I think the hammer is questionable. Prolapsed did not have a dire urgency to live which would telegraph a potential power role claim.

Why is he town? Im not seeing it

His late D1 play is pretty town.

His entrance was also pretty town.

Can you explain your problems with the hammer?

I don't agree, I thought his predecessor was much better but his posts IMO weren't that spectacular

Define "much better".

He replaced into a slot that was very scummy. Maybe he's decided that he's got no chance of survival and is just going to troll the shit out of the game. I have no idea. Basically it's a policy lynch, and I wouldn't be remotely surprised if he flipped scum. If he's town, he still needs to go. I was really hoping he'd be vig'd.

That hammer was not only scummy as shit, it was unacceptable imo.

Policy lynches are bad.
By accepting a policy lynch, you're ok with scum coasting by for another day.

Read everything I said about Arceus and Dan / Arceus and Palkia. Your support of Palkia in spite of the atrocious hammer doesn't help.

I tend to be a bleeding heart. I find Policy Lynches to be very anti-town. In most cases, more anti-town than the person being lynched.

So we had 3 votes in less than 4 hours when the town was obviously pretty close to a lynch anyways. The wagon on the lynch was essentially 4 parked RVS votes and 3 quick votes with no decent explanations (except Oversoul).

I don't understand how you can call my vote a quick vote. My vote did not immediately follow another vote onto the wagon, which is the definition of a quick vote.

Post 573 - I guess Elyse can be town.
Wow my reads were so off from yesterday. *sigh*

Is everyone discounting the possibility of Elyse / Rune scum team? They're playing off of each other so hard...

Day 1

Elyse at first suspects Rune, then joins him for no apparent reason.

Day 2

Elyse and Rune disagree on who to go after first HaVoC/Me, they are the only two who are looking to lynch me on Day 2 and the disagreement once again seems fabricated.

I think you're getting a little bit paranoid.

If axe and havoc are a team, how did the counterwagon form so efficiently and quickly? It would require hostile and Palkia to both be really bad town, which seems moderately unlikely.

I think the answer is that Hostile is scum and Palkia will hammer anything.
You should vote Hostile.

4 RVs and 3 quickvotes including no intent or chance to claim on L1 and hammer.

It's either suicide town or dumb scum.

I think you have these backward? Wouldn't it be suicide scum, dumb town? Ask yourself, honestly, which of the bolded is more likely? Suicide scum or dumb town?

No you failed cause you are calling him town and I believe even said his late posts were town yet admit his actions are not.

This doesn't compute

Ah, I see.

Correct, his late Day posts were town. So were is entrance posts.

Looking at his overall play, it's clear Palkia is town.

You're trying to focus on one action to paint him as scum. Show me posts that make you think Palkia is scum.

I agree.

If Palkia was a public alt we could know what type of player would hammer like that. If it was Varsoon, or Ika, or Marquis, I think the hammer itself would be null. People tend to view votes as more important in determining alignment than general play.


Hostile Intent continues to be useless as ever.
Everyone should vote her!

[Oversoul]

Was that confirmed? I remember confirming that weguerts was one of them but not Anti

[Oversoul]

Well, I don't know Anti but he isn't a play that would be strictly against a hammer, I guess

[Oversoul]

What scum hunting is HI doing (Rune)?

[Oversoul]

No. Just highly unlikely. But it is a safe assumption that scum will not do things that warrant a policy lynch, unless they would do those things as town.
Shocking I know.

I don't know Anti to do those things as either alignment. But I'm not 100% convinced that this is Anti :\

Rune, where did I misquote you?
And those actions were not for "no good reason". I think those people are town and scum respectively.

I'm sorry I don't play like you Rune. I think you're assuming too much of me.

[Oversoul]

I still don't understand how you're qualifying my vote as a quick vote

[Oversoul]

He doesn't believe in meta.

[Oversoul]

Rune, why do you think Hostile is town?

[Oversoul]

Havoc was just replaced in another game. I don't know if he will continue to play in this game.

[Oversoul]

This is exciting

[Oversoul]

@Rev why oversoul over havoc?

oversould suggested a policy lynch will be a town lynch. He knows something I don't.

I am reading Palkia as town.
You want to policy lynch Palkia.
Ergo, I think your policy lynch is a town lynch.

Noted that you admit Palkia's lynch is a policy lynch. So, I guess I was half right with the Palkia wagon.

---

INDEPENDENT FROM ABOVE
From a theory/general perspective, I think policy lynches are generally a bad thing. They are not designed to help town win the game. They are designed to teach a lesson to a player, to cull the site meta. For that reason, I think that policy lynches tend to be a lynch on town. Scum already have a lot to lose by doing something that will attract attention. Why would they do something that is grounds for a policy lynch?

Rune, why do you think Hostile is town?

Because I think other people are more likely to be scum. Which is why I've asked for a case/opinion against HI, which no one seems to be able or willing to provide. Odd. That being said, I'm not discounting the possibility of HI scum. But there is no reason to lynch anyone today who we are not sure is scum, and HI does not fit that criteria. Havoc fits it much better. In my opinion, you do as well.

@TDA post...........

@Havoc post.........

1. You never answered my question - where did I misquote you? You keep giving me general statements that I am not interpreting your posts correctly. I would like it if you want post by post to explain yourself, since we clearly have mixed signals?
2. Fair. My HI vote mainly stems from her quick vote on the Prolapsed Wagon. Up to that point, she had done very little scumhunting. She put her only two votes of that day on the two largest wagons. She keeps making prod dodge posts in the guise of random comments about the day.

I will admit, I found 626 to be particularly town. However, I do think we should apply pressure to HI so that she starts contributing. I do not like it when people like HI phone into the game and barely contribute any scumhunting.

Then again, maybe I should be contributing to a major wagon so the game moves forward.

If Oversoul is town, I think it is highly unlikely that Palkia is scum.

Why?

I appreciate the defense from AxeHole, but I'm not sure how I feel about him. He is all over the place with his posts. He did understand my opinion about the Palkia votes, which makes me think he is trying to think like I am. I don't see scum going through that trouble, especially since I have, admittedly, an odd way of thinking.

Re-read D2 at least. I sense some night-chat plan where scum will 'slowly' pressure HI while maintaining strong townreads on Palkia. I think Oversoul has done nothing but push a very specific agenda today, and I still think Arceus was very scummy. Both Axe and BBT are complicit in this and at least one of them is town being strung along.

Havoc is probably a safer lynch, but I think town will gain the most from lynching Oversoul.

Are you this paranoid in real life, Rune? This is moon beams logic, tinfoil territory, etc. This assumes so many things rather than settling for the most simple, logical explanation.

That being said this post is very town given those feelings though. Damn. I haven't seen this type of meta gamestate analysis in a long time.

Havoc was just replaced in another game. I don't know if he will continue to play in this game.

Excellent contribution.

Can anyone explain what the point of this post is?

There's nothing else of his either side of it for at least an hour. So he pops into the thread to tell us havoc is still site active. Then disappears again. Thanks oversoul. Really helpful.

There's a wagon on you building, have you got nothing to say about that?

I was informing everyone that the pressure on Havoc would likely be falling on deaf ears since Havoc is most likely going to be replaced. Did you mean should I address Rune and Axe's votes on me at this time? I'm confused.

I could be convinced either way, but I really think an Oversoul lynch tells us more about the game. I would also lynch Havoc in a heartbeat.
Rev, you, and Jake are my strongest townreads right now, and I think we should collectively decide where to vote.

What does my death tell you about the game state when I flip town?
Also, why do you have a town read on Jake?

529 - Oversoul, why HI?

Also, you never addressed my reasoning for why I thought Rev was scum. Can you do so now?

I answered this above in an answer to Rune.

I think she is scum coasting. I think her vote on the PB wagon was the most opportunistic.
Although, I do have to admit, if Palkia IS Antihero then my read of Palkia is very muddled as I think I remember Antihero being against players who do that sort of thing.

I'm going to hold off on answering your second question for the time being, I'll answer it before this Day is over though. Remind me if I haven't already addressed it by that point.

Because I think it is pretty obvious that Oversoul was either sending a message to scumbuddies to hammer or hoping to add to the PB bandwagon to detract from the Havoc wagon.

Again with the paranoia. This assumes so much.
How do you realign your reads when I flip town?

I'll vote havoc and maybe Axe

So, not really scumreading anyone then?

VOTE: Havoc

I probably won't be changing this until Oversoulsheeplordwhatever posts again and manages to convince me of his scumminess, largely because BBT's play bothers me and I think Havoc is pretty likely to flip scum.

I like the new moniker I have.
Although I have one question to ask...

Is it lonely in that dark tunnel?

but in all seriousness,

Elyse is town,
Rune is town,
BBT is town,
Rev is town,
Jake is town,
Oversoul is town,
Palkia is town.

HaVoC is scum,
TDA is scum,
HI is scum.

You should probably move your joke vote to account for your seriousness. Right now it is being wasted.

Rune, I would vote Havoc but I'm not going to wait for a replacement for a claim/reads, so it would likely be to outright lynch him.

I said it was exciting because people are saying interesting and controversial things and I am a contender for lynch.

[Oversoul]

Additionally, if you flip town, I would then look at HI more seriously and also be extremely suspicious of Axe.

This is mainly what I wanted to know about the fallout from my lynch. I wanted to know who you would reconsider, other than Palkia.
What is your current opinion on Rev? I don't understand his posting today. Steep drop in good content from yesterday.

re: Paranoia - understandable. I just find it interesting that you are already going to such great lengths to begin building a scum team with me at the center. It assumes that I am a good scum player (I'm not) and the team would defer to my judgment (probably wouldn't), and it just flat out assumes that I am scum (I'm not). Back when I played a lot of games I would construct teams based on a single person, watching their interactions with those people, etc. Unfortunately, more often than not I was wrong about the central person that I used to anchor my reads, so I would be dejected with the game and my ability and just play shitty once that person flipped town or something.

In a way, I did that with PB and Elyse. I was really sure that PB was scum and thought that Elyse had cold feet and couldn't find it in herself to bus him. That is partly why I completely dropped the Elyse scum read today. I felt it was better to go after something different that caught my eye (HI) to help me readjust.

That said, Elyse's posts today are still leaving me with something to be desired.

pedit:

That is exactly my point by saying Havoc is probably going to be replaced

[Oversoul]

I strongly think that Palkia is town, which is why I said that Rev.

Rev, what is your read on Jake?
I think you're discounting the other very town things that Rune has done. Sure, his reasoning for a lot of town reads seems to be PoE mixed with "other people are super scummy" but he has done some very town things.

[Oversoul]

Are you going to vote Havoc, Jake?

[Oversoul]

I think you're very likely town, although I thought your Day 1 posting is better than your Day 2 posting.

[Oversoul]

Why does palkia get a free ride? I'm suspicious of havoc also and have no problem switching my vote but I'm not comfortable with how he's being let off the hook for his scummy play. Until he posts or his replacement posts something to convince me my read is wrong. I see no reason to compromise this early. We still have plenty of time.

You're not exactly pressuring Palkia with your vote. Even if you were applying pressure correctly, it wouldn't matter since Palkia is now MIA like Havoc.

[Oversoul]

Although...

HMMM

[Oversoul]

Ah never mind. I'm getting games mixed up

[Oversoul]

But anyway

Nikanor, Palkia reached 5 days 22 hours without a post, why wasn't he prodded with the rest of the lurkers?

Oops. ~Nik

[Oversoul]

Ok, I lied to get Nikanor to post

What are the chances that Nikanor didn't prod Palkia because Nikanor knew Palkia was active because Palkia was scum?
This theory depends on several assumptions.
That Palkia was active during the night (submitted a night action, could possibly not be scum in that case)
That TDA and Havoc are VTs
That Nikanor did *not* make a mistake

Hmmmm
I will be curious to see how this all plays out at the end of the game

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Havoc

Saving Nikanor from finding a replacement for 3 people, I guess. Marginal utility in that.
I think we are all letting HI get away with way too much coasting. Same for Jake who is happy to literally do nothing.

[Oversoul]

I want everyone to say their two strongest townread before this day is over.

[Oversoul]

When were you whiny?

[Oversoul]

Yup. Jake definitely just went against his word with that vote.

[Oversoul]

Rev, you, and Jake are my strongest townreads right now, and I think we should collectively decide where to vote.

You know my opinion

I think Palkia is a bad lynch for today for reasons I've already explained. I strongly suggest you reconsider, or at least provide your other scumreads as well as a justification for why we should lynch Palkia over the other obvious candidates.

I'll vote havoc and maybe Axe

Jake is really doing whatever he can to make sure he is not on a main wagon today.

[Oversoul]

So how often do you see scum say "I'm voting for a or b" and then vote c?

Actually quite often. Especially if they are bussing. It's the epitome of opportunism.

[Oversoul]

ebwop: Especially if they are bussing refers to the A or B being scum with the player voting

[Oversoul]

Elise why are you scum reading me?

[Oversoul]

Are all British people this arrogant?

[Oversoul]

Fuck. Wrong game

[Oversoul]

Are all British people this arrogant?

LOL, did you just actually scum slip Oversoul?

No. But I guess this post makes my original post relevant?

People need to realize that scumslips are about as rare as albino animals.

[Oversoul]

No, not single-handedly. But he was the main reason it happened.

I'm really sick and tired of being described as the reason that PB was lynched when there were FIVE OTHER FUCKING VOTES ON THAT WAGON. Yes, I was wrong about PB. I am sorry. He was playing scummy as shit. I think he is an Empking, CES or a Nobody Special alt or something. Players that I routinely misread because of how they play.

My vote wasn't even the hammer that literally DEFINED the lynch as a quicklynch OR the announced L-1 that came QUICKLY AFTER my vote.
I can't control HI or Palkia. How the fuck was I supposed to know that would happen?

You and Rune are going for these reads that are on another PLANET of existence over something that I could not control.
I'm going after HI because I don't think Palkia would attempt to attract that type of attention to himself. I really don't. I don't see most mafia being that brazen. I *can* easily see scum being the type to quietly insert themselves into a mislynch much in the same way that HI did. Her vote was underwhelming, with little reason, and had A LOT of impact. That is the epitome of scum voting.

Sure you could argue that my vote had more impact because it set everything into motion but the scum team of Palkia + OS requires that one townie play stupid. For what? A lynch on a PROLAPSED FUCKING BRAIN? Maybe if this was Llamarble, or Nacho, or Tammy, or Reck, or Thor, or zMuffinMan, or AP OR ANYONE OTHER THAN FUCKING PB I would concede that the way the lynch fell was scummy. But to go through ALL of that effort for a lynch on a low impact lurker? Please.

[Oversoul]

No, it really isn't.

You've only just finished 'offering yourself to be lynched' as scum.

Don't give me that shit.

Is that meta I see?

[Oversoul]

What do you mean? I didn't think he back tracked from it? The mistake looked honest but I must have overlooked how he responded.

He tried to sidestep the initial issue claiming it was because he had mixed up players. However, the issue remained the same, just the players names changed.

He claimed Rune/myself were scum because of the way Rune town read me early game and tried to get Reverend to look in another direction (away from me). He later claimed that I'm not scum because he couldn't see scum!Rune defending scum!BBT in that way (despite explicitly using this reasoning earlier in the game).

When I questioned him on it just now, he claimed '111' posts had happened. This, again, does not address the issue and nothing had changed.

Twice he tried to defend his slip, with two different reasons, and both times the reasoning fell flat on it's face.

He lacks consistency in his reads and I think it's because he is scum.

Fair. But I think Rev is the type of player where this is not exactly a scumtell, it is a Rev as a player tell. He doesn't really care much about anything from what I gather, so I don't think this is necessarily super scummy. Rather, it is just a manifestation of his personality.

What were you trying to do with Jeane?

[Oversoul]

Your vote changed the momentum heavily and if you weren't ready for PB to be lynched, then you should have never been there in the first place.

That is not what I said.
I wanted PB to be pushed closer to lynch. I did not want a hammer without a claim or to end the day that quickly.

[Oversoul]

Fair point Elyse. I only really looked at the wagon after it was too late

[Oversoul]

How? What is contrived about them?

[Oversoul]

I asked everyone about their top two townreads

[Oversoul]

It's not for what you think but whatever.

[Oversoul]

======[]
[]======

Hammah time

[Oversoul]

but elyse's posts while not as objectively shitty as some other players' are the only ones in the game that i can say without a doubt do not come from a town mindset

so after you policy mislynch me tomorrow you're all going to take a look at elyse and say to yourselves "huh, palkia was right, every single one of elyse's posts are fake as fuck. let's lynch her asap"

I hate troll accounts

lol

I love trolls.

[Oversoul]

i'm serious about that by the way, rev is town for sure

I'm waiting for you to be confirmed town, Palkia.

I assumed it was some sort of role reason like being a tree stump or a vig or something confirmable and that is why you hammered yesterday, but clearly I was wrong.

Why do you believe the VT claim, Palkia? As opposed to no claim from PB?

Rune, I have no qualms with Palkia dying. I am sorry I made a large assumption on Palkia's role.

[Oversoul]

Agreed with all of the above.

[Oversoul]

Hm. That was a surprising kill given the lynch yesterday.

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Elyse

I think she was trying to tie me to Jeanne. I also think the BBT kill implicates her.

[Oversoul]

I'm not scum Rune.

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Oversoul

Why do you care that you may or may not be linked to flipped scum?

Also Elyse is town, try again.

Pedit: rofl Rune is town, too.

I mean I don't think I have any links to Havoc. Sure, I "allowed" the PB lynch (which is a load of bullshit but I'll save the name calling for after the game is over). But the way Elyse was tying me and Havoc together looks like she wanted 1) cred for bussing, and 2) a mislynch on me

[Oversoul]

Please for the love of God unvote one of you
I am the Bodyguard

[Oversoul]

I don't want to be hammered by Palkia + Axe wombs combo

[Oversoul]

Please

[Oversoul]

I am in class right now PLEASE for the love of whatever god you believe in give me an hour.

I protected Palkia N-1 because I thought he had a way to confirm himself the way he was acting
I protected Rune N-2 because of the Jeanne flip. That was also why I was asking for the biggest townreads so I could protect appropriately.

I have a crumb where I said "abgreed" with the misspelling on purpose

[Oversoul]

Other than that, oversoul or

hostile

are my top lynch picks for today.

Are you kidding me?

When this game is over Rune, I will have words for you.

I am probably going to be derp hammered by this dumb ass town (seriously, who the fuck puts anyone at L-1 while Palkia is still alive).
My suspicion is that I was rolecopped, tracked, voyeured, followed, watched, or SOMETHING on Night 1 and that is why there has been such a vocal amount of support for my lynch so that I would be forced to claim.

I think that scum is Elyse who is pandering to Rune.
I also think that Jake could be scum here given the amount of effort he is giving in this game (which is not much)

I'm not as into HI as before but for {reasonss}

[Oversoul]

Bodyguard is a weak claim btw. And axe is probably town.

@oversoul anyone can plant a fake claim.

Why weren't you targetted last night for the kill? If I actually was scum, why would I kill BBT?

You're so fucking far into your tunnel it is infuriating. When I flip TOWN BODYGUARD you are going to have so much egg on your face. I am even debating blacklisting you after this game for this crap in addition to Palkia and Axehole who don't seem to have a single town thought on their minds.
That is the type of player you're being grouped with. That should tell you something.

[Oversoul]

YOU BARELY DID ANYTHING TO GET PALKIA LYNCHED WHAT THE HELL IS THAT JAKE?

Rune, I'm not the one who got a PR to claim, so yes. If you and fucking Elyse are going to blame ME for the PB lynch I am blaming YOU for my lynch.

[Oversoul]

Palkia if you hammer me

[Oversoul]

Palkia I swear if you're screwing with me

I feel so damn vindicated right now

[Oversoul]

I mean my attack against Elyse is basically my attack against you (tying me to Havoc pre-lynch to get town cred for bus + a mislynch) but you've at least done townie things whereas Elyse has been wafflely and just a general non-presence in this game

pedit:

Rune, thoughts on the GS guilty?

[Oversoul]

i'm leaving now but i'm macho for the record

sorry overlysoul

NIKANORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!

Q.Q

[Oversoul]

Gs guilty?

I am willing to consider scum Elyse. It is plausible. I won't put it at L1 now though.

I am certain there is 1 scum on the Elyse wagon.

Now you're not voting very likely scum? Ok.

[Oversoul]

Yeah Jake is totally scum

[Oversoul]

RC kill makes 10000000% more sense with Elyse scum

[Oversoul]

Palkia, what is your first night's result? You're probably very dead tonight

[Oversoul]

If you're Macho

But regardless, I am going to be all over you tonight if Elyse is scum so

[Oversoul]

[Oversoul]

W/e, Axehole is going to hammer this so yay

short day but probably more information filled than the first two

[Oversoul]

Rune you make no sense to me man

[Oversoul]

Gunsmiths can get guilties on other gunsmiths, cops, vigilantes, millers, and depending on the mod jailkeepers.
I don't think I have heard of a gunsmith getting a guilty on a bodyguard. I would ask Nikanor about that Palkia

[Oversoul]

If you are actually town and Palkia is confirmed town to you, then HI should obviously be scum from your perspective. Why would you hesitate in voting this way? I bring the same question to Palkia.

I'm not about to go against the grain when a Gunsmith has claimed a guilty on Elyse

[Oversoul]

Oversoul said I think end d2 that he thought palkia was pr based on first hammer. So your argument there isn't good. I still think oversoul is scum in all likelihood.

Even if Palkia was PR, I wouldn't have given my life for his (actually, in this game I would have - but Oversoul seems to be taking this game seriously, in which case I wouldn't have).

What do you mean by this?

[Oversoul]

do you grow your own food because you think the government poisoned it too

[Oversoul]

Hahaha white knight harder, scrub.

Who is is this in relation to

[Oversoul]

HI and Rune, what is your read on Axehole?

[Oversoul]

@oversoul I want a solid response from you on this. More than "look at my avatar I'm just going to sheep Mr. Quickhammer."

Response on what

[Oversoul]

Furcolow

[Oversoul]

Where art thou Furcolow

[Oversoul]

Prolapsed Brain (7) -

HaVoC

, TheDudeAbides, Jake from State Farm,

BlueBloodedToffee, Oversoul

, Hostile Intent,

Palkia

HaVoC (4) -

RadiantCowbells

, Elyse, Rune,

Prolapsed Brain

Rune (1) - TheReverend

Not Voting (1) - NotAnAxehole

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-05-14 11:36:57).

I mean looking at the wagon now, it is very possible that there are two scum on it. I'm not as strongly opinionated that the second scum on the wagon is located in the tail of it.

I feel like HI doesn't care about anything. She isn't trying to adapt her play given the amount of pressure she is under and that seems kind of town. I'm set on Elyse and feel super vindicated about the GS guilty.

I could see Jake being scum too.

[Oversoul]

I dunno, wagons are a fickle mistress.

[Oversoul]

I know you're here Jake

[Oversoul]

Link me to that game, Rev?

[Oversoul]

A watercress sandwich sounds delicious actually.

[Oversoul]

How was that game more "popping" than this one? Especially on this day?

That game has less pages than this one.

HI should realize it is not as popping because she is a part of the problem with lurkers (Saint/Furcolow should post though)

[Oversoul]

Furcolow = Saint

It is his alt

[Oversoul]

It is a vegetable Rev

[Oversoul]

Reading through Palkia again, this doesn't seem like a guilty.

Palkia if you're playing with my heart I hate you

[Oversoul]

HI you should probably claim before Palkia hammers you

[Oversoul]

I'm not about to make that argument, but she should make a claim before she is hammered because that is the town thing to do?

Why are you fighting tooth and nail with me on everything?

[Oversoul]

Before this day ends, what is everyone's read on Rune?

[Oversoul]

Rune is scum.

Really?

[Oversoul]

I will hammer you.

[Oversoul]

...

Well you should probably claim so I can protect you

[Oversoul]

Or I will just hammer you

[Oversoul]

Ok. Better claim before Palkia gets back
VOTE: HI

[Oversoul]

When I joined in I had a feeling if I replaced the other slot I was replacing into a mafia slot

What other slot?

[Oversoul]

both Palkia and Reverend exhibit the scum "im gonna vote you because I'm spiteful" tendency too.
Couple that with the JEEP tell and I'm pretty sold after skimming Palkia's filter. He doesn't stick with it, either. They're just looking at pushing wagons all over the place.

... Also I'm spam-Posting because it can nightphase any moment if my reading of the last few posts on this page are important

Jeep tell?

[Oversoul]

Saint is a weird player... When I get home I'll explain. I think he is up to something elaborate, but I can't quite figure out what.

[Oversoul]

Ok. So a little background to Saint...

He is a very good scum player. He is not afraid to blow the thread up with useless posts, act like a VI, or pull elaborate stunts. Saint values his scum play to the highest degree. Saint, almost exclusively, likes to play as scum.

In fact, before Saint even posted, I made an internal note to myself that Saint would probably say something along the lines of "I wanted to replace into a scum slot" which is exactly what he did in this post

When I joined in I had a feeling if I replaced the other slot I was replacing into a mafia slot

I don't know what to make of it. I don't know if that is alignment indicative or not, but given who Saint is that type of post was guaranteed to happen in my mind. That is why I was so eager to get him to post.

I think I found the Jeep Tells. Jeep Tells? There are a bunch on the wiki. These relate to the Mafia specifically.

i dont think thats what i said specifically. hold on.

I didn't know it was havoc perse

I was pretty sure the slot was scum when I specifically asked Nikanor to replace into TheDudeAbides.

It was just a gut feeling; a hunch.

Saint here says that he didn't want to replace into Havoc's slot, but I'm not sure I buy that considering he says "that isn't what I said, hold on". He wants to build a consistent story with what he actually posted, so of course he is going to go back and look at what he said for consistency.

Anyway, I am interested in hearing from Saint about the specific Jeep tell that he sees. I'm not sure I see it. All of this information creates doubt around Saint in my mind. I'm not entirely sure what to make of it.

Curious why he thinks that a Gunsmith means a vig *has* to be in this game.

[Oversoul]

I'd expect there to be a townie with a gun, and vig is the most likely, especially given mulitple deaths on n1.

It seems very likely we have a vig to me. The question is if we have a gunsmith.

*stares blankly at Reverend*

[Oversoul]

*stares blankly at Reverend*

Would you like a bong?

No, but clearly you've been using yours too much.

Only one person has died each night in this game. How is that proof of a Vig?

[Oversoul]

I mean if you use to the point that you are throwing up, that is probably too much.

Or in this case if you are on another plane of reality.

[Oversoul]

I don't want to hammer just yet, at any rate. I want to hear more from Palkia and Saint.

Rune, I'm telling you man, you're setting yourself up for failure if you are try to strictly adhere to Good Play (TM) and assume that townies are not stupid. Your assumptions are from a perspective of collective knowledge. Individual townies do not possess that collective knowledge which would make certain actions, votes, plays, etc dumb.

[Oversoul]

Plus, HI called my crumb subtle, and subtle is my middle name.

[Oversoul]

Your crumb was dumb. It helps nobody. It only shows that your moves are calculated as I've stated, and there is a stronger scum motivation for that than town motivation. But I'm glad HI was able to massage your ego.

This is wrong on so many levels.
It helped me not get lynched and it also helped the town not lynch a PR. So yes, I would say that my crumb was not dumb. It was useful.
I play a calculated game all the time. I think you're the first person to ever put it like that. This makes sense for why I am seen as scummy all the time though. Hmm. I don't know how to not play calculated though.

[Oversoul]

What added value does your crumb add to the claim? None. Claiming by itself would be just as effective.

I dunno. My wagon went from 0 to 60 in about 2.5 seconds. I think the crumb is what gave the claim legitimacy.

[Oversoul]

Other than that, oversoul or

hostile

are my top lynch picks for today.

I am probably going to be derp hammered by this dumb ass town (seriously, who the fuck puts anyone at L-1 while Palkia is still alive).

I'm not as into HI as before but for {reasonss}

Ok. Better claim before Palkia gets back
VOTE: HI

(That was an L-1 vote).

If you insist on playing so poorly and hypocritically, I would appreciate it if you would stop whining about what you perceive to be bad play on my part.

Does anybody else need me to hold their hand and explain how stupid this town is being?

That was point of that vote. Since she said that I couldn't hammer her, I put in a place where she could get hammered.
I knew it was an L-1 vote. That is why I said the Palkia line.

Fair point on the claim. I just think that the votes would have gone right back on without the crumb.

[Oversoul]

The {reasons} was because I thought HI was going to claim a PR or she gave off the impression that she was a PR, but now I'm not entirely sure I want her to claim to confirm my suspicions.

[Oversoul]

I want to know who to protect tonight.

[Oversoul]

I'm not going to protect Jake. I think he is scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elyse

[Oversoul]

@Oversoul
While I don't really know what to expect from Palkia (as in I don't know if he will drop his fake guilty or continue with it, hopefully the former) why are you voting me now? It looks like a cheap way to hop off the HI wagon at the least minute.

From your point of view, it is a fake guilty.
From your point of view, Palkia is just trolling.
From your point of view, Palkia would then just hammer HI to continue trolling.

How does that not make sense to you?

[Oversoul]

Guilty?

[Oversoul]

can somebody tell me why elyse isn't swinging from a rope right now? I know I have missed a ton but how in the hell did we let elyse off the hook and instead run up somebody else?

we have a guilty so we lynch the guilty right? I mean that's how I always play

Just wants the day over so he doesn't have to contribute.

Yup yup. This is scum.

[Oversoul]

UNVOTE: Saint
VOTE: Elyse

You better be a PR or you are swinging tomorrow.

[Oversoul]

Meanwhile the counter wagon to Havoc from d1 needs to have scum on it. If palkia and oversoul have both claimed pr then hostile must be scum. If hostile flips town, I can't trust oversoul or palkia and atleast one is lying.

If there is anyone lying it is Palkia. Either way, we have at least 1 scum between {Elyse, Palkia}.
If Elyse flips town lynch Palkia first thing.

His hammer on Jeanne may have been to save face for his hammer on PB. He can't look partial when applying his hammer.

[Oversoul]

I think we should lynch oversoul.

Everyone listen to the crazy bong smoking reverend.

Jesus loves you all.

vote oversoul

[Oversoul]

this game has a GS in it does it not? wouldn't the real GS have just cc'd him?

Why do you think this... when there is no indication at all that a particular role (GS) should exist in this game?

[Oversoul]

my bad, confusing games. disregard that post. i'd explain but not sure how much that would violate the rules

[Oversoul]

I really, really want to lynch Oversoul. But I think HI lynch gives more information to town given the PR claims and HI's lack of cooperation. Oversoul is obviously playing the game and making an honest effort either way, while HI is not. If Oversoul gets to L-1 though I will hammer.

HOW CAN YOU RECONCILE THESE THOUGHTS IN THE SAME PARAGRAPH OMYGOD

Let's walk through this...

Rune wants to lynch Oversoul
HI lynch gives more information
HI is not contributing to the game state
Oversoul is trying and contributing to the game state
If Oversoul gets to L-1, I will hammer the person who is trying and contributing to the game state (TOWNIE FUCKING THINGS TO DO) as opposed to HI who is not contributing, cooperating, or making any honest effort and is overall a better lynch for information.

?????????

[Oversoul]

If Jake gets to L-1 I will hammer him regardless of claim.

[Oversoul]

Saint, why did you not want me to talk about your other account?

[Oversoul]

It's not my fault I have a small hammer.

[Oversoul]

od this game is going nowhere. If I promise to be nice can we work together and make a collective town decision?

Was this addressed to me?

[Oversoul]

If Jake gets to L-1 I will hammer him regardless of claim.

what was the point of this? we know you are scum reading me, nobody gives a shit

there's chum in the water

[Oversoul]

od this game is going nowhere. If I promise to be nice can we work together and make a collective town decision?

Was this addressed to me?

Addressed to anybody willing to listen. I'm really sick of the way this game is going.

Sure. What do you want to talk about?

[Oversoul]

LOL. Nikanor perfect timing.

If Jake gets to L-1 I will hammer him regardless of claim.

what was the point of this? we know you are scum reading me, nobody gives a shit

there's chum in the water

yet i'm the one trying to lynch scum...

You sure about that bud? Because last I checked... or wait, Nikanor just posted the VC.

You weren't voting anyone.



Try again.

Vote Count 3.03

Elyse (3)

- Palkia, Oversoul, Hostile Intent

Hostile Intent (3)

- Rune, Elyse, NotAnAxehole

Oversoul (1)

- TheReverend

Not Voting (2)

- Saint, Jake from State Farm

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-05-29 12:27:21).

[Oversoul]

Sure. What do you want to talk about?

Can we agree that it is almost certain that the counterwagon to Havoc was scum driven? I'd point out that said wagon is exactly the wagon on Elyse right now. If you disagree, please do your best to explain it, because this is obviously a sore point for me.

Yes, I think we can agree on that. I don't think both scum were on the PB counter wagon though.

What do you think about HI townreading both you and Palkia given my above statement?

I think she could be scum. I think she might be trying to stall a claim. I wish Palkia would stop being a lurker and definitively say he has a guilty on Elyse, otherwise I will lynch HI.

Right now, who would you be willing to lynch? What information you would get from those flips?

I am willing to lynch Elyse, Jake, HI, Palkia. My preferences may change. Elyse would give us information on Palkia. Palkia would also give us some associative tells. HI + Jake because I really dislike their play so far, not entirely sure what can be gleamed from HI given her iso. Jake probably would give us some associative tells too.

Do you agree we are probably look at a 10-3 setup (I don't think Havoc was operating independently)? In this case, which pairs do you think are the remainder of the team with Havoc?

Yes. The norm on MS is for games to be 10:3. I dunno who the pairs are yet. Need more information. I have a couple of speculations maybe, but I don't want to reveal them just yet.

Out of curiosity, am I the only one who noticed that Palkia didn't regret the lynch of PB (who flipped town) but immediately posted 'regret' on the hammer of Havoc (who then flipped scum). I didn't mention this earlier but I thought it was odd.

Yes, I saw this. Yes, I thought this was odd too.

Please unvote so we don't lynch Elyse right now.

[Oversoul]

Sure. What do you want to talk about?

1. Can we agree that it is almost certain that the counterwagon to Havoc was scum driven? I'd point out that said wagon is exactly the wagon on Elyse right now. If you disagree, please do your best to explain it, because this is obviously a sore point for me.

Yes, I think we can agree on that. I don't think both scum were on the PB counter wagon though.

So we agree, that assuming you are town, either Hostile or Palkia are scum? I agree it is probable that there is one scum on the counter wagon.

Yes. I think that either Hostile or Palkia are scum. This is going into my pairings that I don't want to reveal though.

2. What do you think about HI townreading both you and Palkia given my above statement?

I think she could be scum. I think she might be trying to stall a claim. I wish Palkia would stop being a lurker and definitively say he has a guilty on Elyse, otherwise I will lynch HI.

Palkia being a lurker is a huge problem and I really don't trust him enough to base my actions at this point on his posts. Until that changes, I believe we have enough information available to the whole town to do a good job at hunting scum independently of Palkia.

I agree. I want him to confirm or deny his guilty and then proceed to lynch based on that information. I agree we probably information outside of Palkia to come to a consensus. I'm not entirely sure where that consensus should be. I am thinking within {Jake, Rev, Saint}.


3. Right now, who would you be willing to lynch? What information you would get from those flips?

I am willing to lynch Elyse, Jake, HI, Palkia. My preferences may change. Elyse would give us information on Palkia. Palkia would also give us some associative tells. HI + Jake because I really dislike their play so far, not entirely sure what can be gleamed from HI given her iso. Jake probably would give us some associative tells too.

Jake's play today has been really subpar. I understand the town motivation for this lynch. However, I really don't think it is optimal, although I haven't ISO'd him and no immediate associatives come to mind except weak pushes on Palkia. Either way, I would rank Jake as the lowest priority of the four you mentioned. My problem with GS Guilty lynch is that I don't trust Palkia, and I don't necessarily trust Elyse's VT claim. I don't think that a flip on either of these players gives DEFINITIVE information, at least from my perspective. I think we have options which will give definitive information. For example, I am quite confident that you (oversoul) and HI are opposite alignments.

You think Elyse is lying about her claim? I don't.
I think an Elyse townflip definitively points to a Palkia-scum.

Do you agree we are probably look at a 10-3 setup (I don't think Havoc was operating independently)? In this case, which pairs do you think are the remainder of the team with Havoc?

Yes. The norm on MS is for games to be 10:3. I dunno who the pairs are yet. Need more information. I have a couple of speculations maybe, but I don't want to reveal them just yet.

That is fair. When you feel like bringing up possibilities, let me know. I think either today or D4 we are ready to put forward more information, such as this.

Out of curiosity, am I the only one who noticed that Palkia didn't regret the lynch of PB (who flipped town) but immediately posted 'regret' on the hammer of Havoc (who then flipped scum). I didn't mention this earlier but I thought it was odd.

Yes, I saw this. Yes, I thought this was odd too.

Another reason I have a problem basing my actions off something Palkia thinks is a good idea.

It would be worse play to lynch Palkia first rather than Elyse, if Palkia adheres to his GS guilty.

Please unvote so we don't lynch Elyse right now.

[Oversoul]

1. 3. and 5. - I don't recommend lynching Palkia at all today. I just also don't recommend lynching Elyse. If we agree HI or Palkia is scum, then HI flip from your perspective gives solid info about Palkia and Elyse (and could potentially make your claim more believable too), and definitively reveals at least one scum. Since this situation doesn't rely on Palkia providing information, and since the benefits of the flip are at least as good, why do you disagree that this is the optimal lynch

How does HI give information about Elyse?
I think HI might be a PR so I am wary of that lynch carte blanche.

[Oversoul]

Wouldn't we get the same amount of information by lynching Elyse?

Elyse flips town, Palkia is scum, HI town?

[Oversoul]

Plus that leaves HI town which is possibly a PR.

[Oversoul]

If HI is a PR, I would say Palkia is a better lynch than HI.

[Oversoul]

Hmm...

VOTE: HI

[Oversoul]

Claim, HI.

Rune, I would be okay with protecting anyone who claims a PR. My action would probably go towards the person with the strongest PR.

[Oversoul]

It's worth noting that the claimed bodyguard isn't the one saying we should wait for the claimed gs situation to be resolved before we lynch.

I've been saying that all day? I don't understand what you mean here.

[Oversoul]

I mean if anything Palkia says is to be trusted, then I can't protect him tonight anyway because he is macho. My protect would likely go somewhere else because of that.

[Oversoul]

Correct scumplay here would be to *not* kill Palkia or Elyse if Elyse is scum, and definitely if Elyse is town. Saves them mislynches for later if this whole ordeal is a ruse.

[Oversoul]

Is Rev coming around to a Jake scum read? Hallelujah.

[Oversoul]

Just wait for Palkia to swoop in.

[Oversoul]

UNVOTE:
She isn't going to self hammer

[Oversoul]

VOTE: HI
If you are town PR, you deserve this hammer.

[Oversoul]

Who do you think is scum HI?

[Oversoul]

So now everyone thinks palkia is just a troll? Jake Hi would imply this. I want this to be very clear.

If this guilty on Elyse is not a guilty, then yes.
Probably would wagon him with extreme prejudice if that came back too.

[Oversoul]

This is exciting.

Choose whoever you think is scum that doesn't have the attention of the town. That's usually how I use my Vig shots. I've only ever been a vigilante once though.

[Oversoul]

Don't listen to Palkia. I will lynch Jake tomorrow.
Choose whoever. I can see the logic behind both of those. I was getting bad vibes when Rune was trying to trap me into a logic thing to get you lynched.

[Oversoul]

Palkia you are very obviously not a gunsmith.

[Oversoul]

Actually, shoot Palkia. No way we have a gunsmith with a JOAT. Palkia is a liability either way.

I am still lynching Jake tomorrow.

[Oversoul]

I'm not scum. FFS get the hell out of your tunnel.
Your insistence on the end wagon of PB makes more sense with your PR claim.

[Oversoul]

He is just going to hammer anything and be anti-town.
I am fine with either a Jake shot or a Palkia shot.

[Oversoul]

It's ok. You picked the right game to do it it's fucked anyways. I like palkia as town for not lynching you when he obviously could have. Oversouls whining seems genuine but just shoot him. If palkia is vt we shouod still have an investigative role to look at Saint or Jake.

You want her to shoot the only way that you will live tonight (me)?

I feel like there is some selfish motivation here in that you just want to die to be rid of this game.

[Oversoul]

Fair. I don't see how you can honestly justify shooting a protective role in this game but whatever.
I'm happy to protect you until this game ends. We will be stuck in hell forever. Together.

[Oversoul]

He's pretty clearly Palkia 2.0

Pedit:

AxeHole is being truthful? I took that as a troll claim.

[Oversoul]

I'm tracker, I checked Saint last night, he was scum.

Like the claim tracker and the words he used do not match up so I figured it was another troll moment from AxeHole.

[Oversoul]

Are you actually a tracker that tracked Saint to the kill?

[Oversoul]

Kill Saint. Don't let Saint plan anything with the other scum during the night.

[Oversoul]

Really don't want to have to potentially deal with a trolling Saint tomoddow either

[Oversoul]

Shoot. Saint. Rune is so deep in this tunnel he is practically at China.

[Oversoul]

Lolol. Shooting saint is optimal. But I would be happier if you shot oversoul.

Shoot, Saint. HI.

Any last minute reads for those on your wagon?

[Oversoul]

You should do that so there is no wait time between your death and your shot.

[Oversoul]

I'm not scum God damn it.

[Oversoul]

I hope to god I die tonight too

[Oversoul]

JOAT + Tracker + Bodyguard + Vengeful seems balanced against scum who have a roleblocker. If Saint did the kill, then probably not the roleblocker. Then again, if Saint was a PR anyway this would be a crazy game.

[Oversoul]

HOW IN THE LITERAL FUCK DO YOU MISS THAT

[Oversoul]

God damn it.

Like I thought. Palkia 2.0

[Oversoul]

HI!!
Come back!!! Shoot Palkia in the face

[Oversoul]

Or the other troll

[Oversoul]

Or Jake
But please not the fake guilty

[Oversoul]

Scum please for the love God shot me in the face tonight

[Oversoul]

lol at this shit town.

Jake staY off this site.
Elyse gg even though town did all the work for you.

I blame Palkia.
I would not have suspected Palkia if it was not for the fake-guilty. I would have been all over Jake today.

Rune, would you like to continue our theory conversations? Also, would you like to hydra at some point in the future?
This game... was... something else that is for damn sure.

[Oversoul]

NotAnAxeHole is a great troll though. Much better than Palkia.

Who was Palkia by the way?

[Oversoul]

I think Prolapsed Brain is an alt of a serial lurker that I can legitimately never read correctly. Up until this game, I am pretty sure I have never played with Prolapsed Brain before, yet in twilight of his death he claimed meta knowledge of my play style. If you are who I think you are, I am sorry. Post less sporadically!

I think in general the town played a little abrasively and poorly. We couldn't connect to form a group. I would recommend to HI to never intentionally play scummy like that, even if you are a Vengeful. Unless you have god-tier scumhunting powers haha.

[Oversoul]

BBT was a terrible kill, and I think a very unlikely candidate for PR hunting. He was likely killed because he said he wanted to lynch Elyse. This isn't actually a threat to Elyse and if I were her I would have killed Jake (if not partner).
Oversoul/me was a terrible kill. Scum were the only ones with confirmed knowledge of Oversoul's alignment. Everyone else was against him. This kill only benefits Reverend since he was actually the optimal kill. But, since I don't care about Reverend's alignment, I choose to believe that Oversoul was just a bad kill. I don't think Elyse would have made this mistake.

I want to talk about this!
Specifically, the Oversoul kill.

BBT/Rune

, scum *did* try to kill Rune the night that I died. I simply intercepted the kill. So, take that for what you will. Anyway, with that information in mind...

I agree with you almost 100%. As a mafia member, I would have never attempted to kill Oversoul outright or Rune outright. I would have settled for Rev hoping to get the mislynch on Oversoul. Sure, Rev may not have been doing much but the sheer amount of people against at that point in the game was astonishing. Axe at any point in the game would have been a very bad kill (sorry Axe but you were trolling so a net positive for the mafia). Hell, I would have even killed Palkia to make sure Elyse was safer during the day.

As Oversoul the bodyguard, I was *so* close to protecting Reverend for literally the same exact thinking haha. I almost submitted the Rev protection that night but I am glad I did not in the end. I was going for a super high level meta protection on Rev predicting scum to behave the exact same way that you thought they should behave.

I find it so interesting that you and I had very similar thoughts during the game despite you eating my dick all game (even if it was trumped up to protect yourself)

I don't necessarily agree with that by the way. By trumping up your read on me, and potentially accurately catching another one or two members of the mafia team, like you did with Havoc, could have implicitly framed me which would not have been good.

I do like your style of play. Reminds me of other good players like Fate, AngryPidgeon, Faraday, etc. I hope you do stay! The general quality of games is something of a hit or miss nowadays, but if you selectively choose which games to play in, you might have a better time.

I can't in good faith justify the double target on Axe. I could have excused Roleblock into a Cop investigation, but Cop into a Roleblock was sloppy, especially since we only had one flipped mafia at that point. With 2 two dead mafia, depending on the roles, Roleblock is one of, if not the most, powerful roles.

@Oversoul I think I would enjoy playing a full game with you. You replaced a really useless player and with the PB counterwagon (the most ridiculous counterwagon ever for 2 PR and 1 VT) there was really very little chance that I would play amicably with you this game.

I think this is where you played a little too rigid with this principle in mind. Sure, it looks bad, but on this site scum seldom try to make themselves look like targets. That was initially why I did not want to go after Palkia. That is why I went after HI (knowing I was town). Unless Palkia hammers, regardless of alignment, it isn't a scum-tell. He should be vigged N1 in every single game moving forward, but that is neither here nor there.

I think if Palkia waited a few days to hammer, things would have been different and this game probably would have been much better. Oh well.
But seriously, sometimes you have to explore possibilities beyond the scope of strict principles.

Similarly, having a crumb for a PR doesn't help you at all as town. Scum could do it just as easily. If it is an obvious crumb, you are likely to get NK. If it isn't an obvious crumb, then if you claimed another role nobody would refer to the crumb to contradict you... so all it shows is that you planned to claim that specific role, but only after you claim and show everyone it was there in the first place. I see absolutely no advantage to town in doing this.

I also think you could have been a lot more subtle about asking for townreads at the end of D2.

Fair. Never approached in that way with how scummy it could actually look.
I was taught that crumbs = life as PR if you were put under a lot of pressure. Since I am a naturally scummy player, crumbs are how I legitimize myself when I am forced to claim. Plus it helps put an immediate end to any counterclaim or beliefs that "Oversoul made a convenient claim" if I can show people I have been playing the entire game with a specific role in mind.

Axe, what was with the fake guilty on Saint? lol

Tbh I don't think Elyse played poorly as scum at all. I think her tell was mainly that she was obviously trying way harder than her posting indicated. She may have sheeped me just a little bit too much, but it's an easy thing to do when it involves comments on suboptimal play. If town was stronger I think she would have made more obvious slips.

Agreed. Even if HI shot Jake, I don't think Elyse would have lost this game. She played a solid scum game.

[Oversoul]

What was with the RC kill night 1? I didn't understand that at all. I would have killed Rune that night if I was scum.