Mini 1668 - Mafia in Bremen - Game Over!

[Rune]

Are there stats or are you saying people expect it to be a higher probability than what other people expect? Your statement doesn't make sense without data. I expect it's pretty reliable since investigations are by nature conditional on, in most cases, scummy behaviour.

Anyways, at least your unvote makes more sense now.

[Rune]

oversoul is a claimed bodyguard, and i do believe his claim for now

in mini normals, the number of town roles that give false positives to gunsmiths is usually limited to 1 and less likely 2

it's not data, just smart setup design. imagine a game with a macho cop and 2 millers and how fucked that would end up

and the odds that elyse is one are really low not to mention unlikely considering her fake as fuck scummy play anyway

I like this post. But this is the wrong way to lynch D3. Axe is already in full troll mode And could easily lynch now and mess up the game. I think Elyse might well be scum but we need to hear from her and saint before getting this close to a lynch.

[Rune]

Thank you. It's outrageous that we have had 2 L1 situations so far.

I'm not liking hostile today.

[Rune]

I recommend everyone iso hostilE and Elyse. They haven't posted much so it isn't too tough. I think hostiles iso is atrocious.

Funnily enough. I think that elyse is scum only if palkia is scum.

At some point I will re iso oversoul, and reread a bit, and maybe will vote hostile. But in the mean time, lynch oversoul.

[Rune]

After ppl post.

[Rune]

Rune you make no sense to me man

It's not my job to make sense to you.

VOTE: hostile

[Rune]

Gunsmiths can get guilties on other gunsmiths, cops, vigilantes, millers, and depending on the mod jailkeepers.
I don't think I have heard of a gunsmith getting a guilty on a bodyguard. I would ask Nikanor about that Palkia

Yeah it's a role I know nothing about, I am appreciative of you and Palkia explaining a bit. Seems kind of sexy.

On mobile but if I remember from the wiki bodyguards are not guilty.

[Rune]

I'm not going to read anything else either I'm dead or palkia is.

What prevented you from bringing this up at the beginning of D3?

i'm serious about that by the way, rev is town for sure

I'm waiting for you to be confirmed town, Palkia.

I assumed it was some sort of role reason like being a tree stump or a vig or something confirmable and that is why you hammered yesterday, but clearly I was wrong.

Why do you believe the VT claim, Palkia? As opposed to no claim from PB?

Rune, I have no qualms with Palkia dying. I am sorry I made a large assumption on Palkia's role.

See my question to Rev

I have something to say but I don't want to say it now so I'll say it tomorrow.

1) If you were a hero and drew the NK with that, thank you and you half-way redeemed yourself for not lynching obvscum!Havoc.
2) Otherwise, what a dumbass and LOL.


If Rev is scum and NK'd BBT after their endD2 interaction, I think that's hilarious and good job Rev. Much more likely, someone was trying to frame Rev.

[got sick of mobile, pulled out laptop on bus.] [expect possible walls]

[Rune]

@Oversoul:
On a day-day basis, I think your posts are actually *mostly* alright. However, out of everyone in this game, your posts feel the most calculated and that really bothers me. I don't like your AtE on my scumread of you, it's just bad play and you should knock it off.

Riddle me this:

Assume there was scum on the tail end of PB's wagon. Assume you are town. Assume yesterday you truthfully townread Palkia and therefore voted Havoc. Since today Palkia claims PR and you presumably are more convinced that Palkia is town. Palkia's town claim comes with the *possibility* of a scum read, but one for which he can escape fault if Elyse is not scum. However, if you and Palkia are confirmed town from your perspective, then HI is 100% scum.

If you are actually town and Palkia is confirmed town to you, then HI should obviously be scum from your perspective. Why would you hesitate in voting this way? I bring the same question to Palkia.

------
Purely Academic:

Out of curiosity, I can think of only two scenarios in which gunsmith would be 'useful' to game design. 1) scum has a role like godfather which cops wouldn't catch. 2) town has a role that would look guilty to gunsmith. 3) a combination of the two.

------
I don't think Palkia is trolling with his claim and I am inclined to believe it, but I am really not convinced that it is sufficient to make Elyse an optimal D3 lynch.

[Rune]

What prevented you from bringing this up at the beginning of D3?

Call me a liar if you want, but I was kind of expecting another town flip when I said that.

Havoc was so obviously scum it hurt. Unfortunately I can believe you didn't pay enough attention to realize it.

[Rune]

If you are actually town and Palkia is confirmed town to you, then HI should obviously be scum from your perspective. Why would you hesitate in voting this way? I bring the same question to Palkia.

I'm not about to go against the grain when a Gunsmith has claimed a guilty on Elyse

claimed guilty =/= scum for gunsmith. Hostile should be better odds from your perspective.

I don't trust either you or Palkia, so 'going against the grain' doesn't bother me in the slightest.

[Rune]

@Oversoul

ISO HI and tell me what you think.

Axe is probably town, I've mentioned this a lot.. If scum, scum with HI, and that's been my thought since D2. If HI flips scum, I would probably only look at you, axe, and elyse at this point.

I haven't really strongly thought about the implications of scum Axe but we'll see how this day goes. Right now I see no need to.

@HI

You're not as clever as you think you are.

[Rune]

Havoc was so obviously scum it hurt. Unfortunately I can believe you didn't pay enough attention to realize it.

Sometimes I'm awesome, sometimes I suck. This game it seems I suck. I don't care so long as we win.

What are your thoughts on Hostile?

[Rune]

I commented on that also. Normally I would agree. But there has to be scum between oversoul, hostile, and Palkia. That's a much bigger town derp than what you're showing which could be faked pretty confidently considering it was the third naked L1 of the game and other players were already forgiven for not paying attention.

[Rune]

There was literally no reason to lynch pb at that time. It is unforgivable and obviously was a weak counter wagon to Havoc. Havoc flipped scum, justifying this even more. We have two pr claims from the three that people seem to believe. If they are not fake claiming, hi is scum.

[Rune]

@oversoul I want a solid response from you on this. More than "look at my avatar I'm just going to sheep Mr. Quickhammer."

@palkia

Thoughts?

@Elyse
Get on this game and say something intelligent.

@Rev
Show me you mean it by voting. Let's get this wagon started.

[Rune]

Of course. I think a lynch is unacceptable until Elyse and saint post. In the mean time, I see no harm in establishing a second wagon.

[Rune]

A read on Hi particularly with respect to the arguments that have been made today but also your independent opinion.

[Rune]

Tail end needs scum for the swing that we saw. You don't go from a near scum lynch to a town lynch so quickly otherwise.

[Rune]

Is this really we're we are at in the game?

I don't believe that no scum exist between Oversoul, Palkia, and Hostile. If Hostile townflips, at least one of you is fake claiming and that makes me far less suspicious of Elyse. If Hostile scum flips, then Elyse becomes a much more interesting lynch candidate (barring a townie PR claim that we can confirm). But with two PR claims from that group it should be an easy lynch.

*sigh*

[Rune]

Lol at my dumbass typo there.

Yeah I am not sure what to think about palkia but I'm not willing to lynch based on his play.

[Rune]

VOTE: Elyse

I think she was trying to tie me to Jeanne. I also think the BBT kill implicates her.

True - I think you and Jeanne are scum together. I've been saying that since you pushed the PB lynch.

So you think Oversoul is scum?

UNVOTE: Axehole
VOTE: Elyse

What the fuck is a read anymore idk

Um. I would say assume this is because of Palkia's apparent guilty (like Jake's poor vote/unvote), but here:

Wait, what just happened?

it looks like you didn't know what happened. As in you didn't realize Palkia had a guilty.

These last two quotes look like you're just trying to manipulate HI's posts. I don't really agree with your comments but w/e. HI had been strongly townreading you so I understand surprise at the "she has a gun" comment.

I'm a VT so Palkia is bullshitting. I would vote him but I honestly think that he's town who is scumreading me so hard that he has to fake a guilty to get a lynch through. It's sad, but I don't see him faking a guilty as scum because when I flip VT he'd be fucked.

VOTE: Hostile Intent

Terrible sheepy play, poor place on PB wagon, lack of original thoughts, etc.


I'll believe Oversoul's claim for now.

So Oversoul is scum but you believe the claim. Palkia is fake claiming but you believe him to be town. But you're voting for HI.

I really don't like this post Elyse. Something doesn't add up in it. You're using a shotgun approach for your defence without coming to strong or logical conclusions and it seems unnecessary. I'd like for you to elaborate on it a bit.

vote hostile intent

I don't like the timing of this vote. I don't think Elyse was particularly convincing and it seems like you were just waiting to follow her lead.

VOTE: Hostile Intent

My vote is, in spirit, on the first player to reach L-2 (making L-2 essentially the lynch threshold.

Don't really like this but that's how you're choosing to play and you did warn us. [That vote is L-1 btw]


Well, I'm still ok with it being L-1 because I think HI lynch will give good info about the game, and if Oversoul & Palkia aren't fake claiming, HI is scum. If they are fake claiming, lynching Elyse is probably bad. So..... I'm not too happy with how this day is going but I think this is about as good as it will get.

[Rune]

I obviously understood the gunsmith, but then he said he's macho. I didn't know those were normally put together, so I didn't get it. I am sheeping. Its for a reason, but we'll cross that bridge really soon it seems. That's L-1.

Can we stop with the nonsense posts like this?

Oversoul trying to get townreads from people so he can aBGree to save them overnight, BBT saying he has important things to say "tomorrow", and now this. I, at least, don't care at all unless you're just going to straight out say what your alleged PR is. But if you actually have one, that's a terrible post.

You're at L-1 and you've acknowledged it... time to spill the beans.

[Rune]

SAINT POST.

[Rune]

HI you should probably claim before Palkia hammers you

Won't really make a difference.

Are you really going to try to make an argument that three town PR were the counterwagon to an easy D1 scum lynch? That's even more ridiculous than your current assumption that all three of you are town. That sort of thing just does not happen in a game.

[Rune]

Spoiler:

Jake is so obviously scum.

Palkia is town and you should feel bad for that vote Jake.

VOTE: Hostile Intent

Why is he town? Im not seeing it

You're obviously scum.

That's all I've got to say.

@Axe,

Quit trolling, or explain the Jake read. You still haven't posted your Havoc read.

Havoc is scum.

I will either lynch Oversoul or the first player to reach L-1.

but in all seriousness,

Elyse is town,
Rune is town,
BBT is town,
Rev is town,
Jake is town,
Oversoul is town,
Palkia is town.

HaVoC is scum,
TDA is scum,
HI is scum.

Os is scum.

Elyse is scum

Rune is scum.

I mean, at some point he has to be right about some of them, right? lol

[Rune]

@Mod Please fix my spoiler tag

[Rune]

I don't plan on claiming

What are your reads on oversoul and Palkia?

[Rune]

I don't like the timing of this vote.

Do you like the timing of my unvote?

No complaints.

You'll L-1 me is what you'll do.

Whose everyone's top scum read (or second top scum read if the top is me)?

Serious inquiry.

Your answer to this question (Elyse, Saint, me) is extremely suspect. If you are town, you are implying that you then believe both Oversoul and Palkia's claims, and that three town, at least two of which are PR, quicklynched town D1 as a counterwagon to a scum lynch. This is a ridiculous assumption.

So my answer is obviously you. I've already posted what my opinion is after your flip.

i dont think thats what i said specifically. hold on.

I didn't know it was havoc perse

I was pretty sure the slot was scum when I specifically asked Nikanor to replace into TheDudeAbides.

It was just a gut feeling; a hunch.

This is extremely suspicious.

TheReverend is scum.

This is so predictable that I'm ashamed of myself for not predicting it.

I laughed.

I don't see why town would be more inclined to miss it. They are waiting too. Especially HI, who was townreading me before Palkia's fake result.

Agreed.


-----------

@All - to address Axe's point in post 1217, I am inclined to agree with him.


I have seen no reason not to lynch HI. Let's hammer.

[Rune]

Curious why he thinks that a Gunsmith means a vig *has* to be in this game.

I'd expect there to be a townie with a gun, and vig is the most likely, especially given mulitple deaths on n1.

It seems very likely we have a vig to me. The question is if we have a gunsmith.

Did RC have multiple personalities? Do tell me who these multiple deaths were.

Could you please put in about 5% more effort into this game? Just enough so that the player names you post correspond to players in this game, so that you don't mix up players, and so that you can keep track of the number of kills each night. Is that too much to ask?

[Rune]

I have seen no reason not to lynch HI. Let's hammer.

No. We should wait for palkia. We've still got a the small matter of the gunsmith claim and the denial. Why the hurry?

I've no intention on claiming, guy.

I've considered that perhaps Palkia is indeed performing some sort of gambit. The Rev crumb holds up though, so it's a strange and elaborate gambit. Oversoul's crumb doesn't seem out of the ordinary for the game either. Very subtle, which is good, but easily a fall-back if scum surmise that there are no protective roles in the game. I can't imagine that to be the case at this point. So, as it stands, Elyse is the obvious scum here. If she doesn't come forward one way or the other on confirming/denying Palkia's guilty, she's done here very soon.

I still don't feel great about your slot, however, so I'm at a bit of a mental stand off.

No hurry.... but HI needs to go. It makes no sense for HI to believe Palkia and Oversoul, and scumread Elyse. I made this point in my previous post.


@Oversoul, what do you think of this?

[Rune]

I don't want to hammer just yet, at any rate. I want to hear more from Palkia and Saint.

Rune, I'm telling you man, you're setting yourself up for failure if you are try to strictly adhere to Good Play (TM) and assume that townies are not stupid. Your assumptions are from a perspective of collective knowledge. Individual townies do not possess that collective knowledge which would make certain actions, votes, plays, etc dumb.

Where do I assume townies are not stupid? I townread Rev and he is playing this game from another planet.... I townread Axe and his only contribution today is "[insertanynamehere] is scum"

All players possess the knowledge that Havoc (scum) was going to be lynched D1, and was, within a period of four hours, "saved" by three votes on PB (town). Two of those votes are claiming PR. I don't give a damn about adhering to Good Play or the intelligence of townies. The third person townreading both of the other two is not someone I want in this game. HI needs to go.

Your crumb was dumb. It helps nobody. It only shows that your moves are calculated as I've stated, and there is a stronger scum motivation for that than town motivation. But I'm glad HI was able to massage your ego.

I don't trust that anything Palkia says will be useful. Don't care to wait on him. The only thing I care about w.r.t Palkia is that we tell him who to read N3, assuming, of course, that he won't conveniently forget to do it again.

I would like to hear more from Saint. Good point. He's done a bad job so far. But since HI needs to go, I'm not too worried about Saint until I see an HI flip.

[Rune]

Whoever put the 'b' in subtle is a fucking genius.

You're hilarious.

.

Hammer.

Hammer.

Hammer.

[Rune]

I'm just impatient. I recognize that waiting a bit is probably optimal.

[Rune]

Your crumb was dumb. It helps nobody. It only shows that your moves are calculated as I've stated, and there is a stronger scum motivation for that than town motivation. But I'm glad HI was able to massage your ego.

This is wrong on so many levels.
It helped me not get lynched and it also helped the town not lynch a PR. So yes, I would say that my crumb was not dumb. It was useful.
I play a calculated game all the time. I think you're the first person to ever put it like that. This makes sense for why I am seen as scummy all the time though. Hmm. I don't know how to not play calculated though.

What added value does your crumb add to the claim? None. Claiming by itself would be just as effective. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this but yes it could explain things. I think you've already pointed out we have a lot to discuss in end game and I'd be interested in talking it through.

[Rune]

I'm not hammering. I think hostile town slipped with that VT thing. I don't see scum missing the claim. It can be argued that hostile is making us think she missed it for the town cred that comes with it, but seeing as I'm literally the only person in the world who seems to think along these lines, I'd say it's unlikely that was the plan.

If palkia insists he's gunsmith, then we should lynch elyse.

GS guilty is not confirmed scum and I don't really care about site meta, in the context of this game Elyse is a bad lynch right now. Palkia's ISO gives him no credibility to begin with.

Havoc counterwagon > GS guilty.

Even though I am almost certain you are town Rev, the way you are playing and the fact that we disagree is actually really comforting to me. "the game is finally making sense" and "there were multiple kills night one so there must be a vig".... no town should have any motivation to listen to you unless you pick it up.

[Rune]

What added value does your crumb add to the claim? None. Claiming by itself would be just as effective.

I dunno. My wagon went from 0 to 60 in about 2.5 seconds. I think the crumb is what gave the claim legitimacy.

Are you serious?

You claim without mentioning the crumb at L-2, followed by a vote by Axe to bring it to L-1. 3 unvotes happen before your next post, which is where you mention the crumb.

Are we reading the same game? I don't even understand what you think you're doing if you're town, but you're making an atrocious, outrageous, factually incorrect argument to debate a point on which you are also wrong.

[Rune]

Other than that, oversoul or

hostile

are my top lynch picks for today.

I am probably going to be derp hammered by this dumb ass town (seriously, who the fuck puts anyone at L-1 while Palkia is still alive).

I'm not as into HI as before but for {reasonss}

Ok. Better claim before Palkia gets back
VOTE: HI

(That was an L-1 vote).

If you insist on playing so poorly and hypocritically, I would appreciate it if you would stop whining about what you perceive to be bad play on my part.

Does anybody else need me to hold their hand and explain how stupid this town is being?

[Rune]

Um people do realise that if palkia is gunsmith then elyse is scum, right?

1) That's a very questionable IF.
2) Elyse could be lying about VT claim and still be PR, trying to avoid NK.

Your arguments are bad. You should feel bad. Go take a timeout with BBT. Make space for Oversoul because he probably belongs in the special illogical town playground you are logging into this forum from.

[Rune]

Your arguments are bad. You should feel bad.

I feel terrible that I'm not up to your required standards.

I might cry.

That would break my heart. I didn't intend for my words to have such an impact on you. To be honest, I'm surprised you responded to me in the correct game thread.

This. Game.

[Rune]

Thing is, if Elyse is scum they're not killing Palkia. They're killing Oversoul and WIFOM'ing his claim's legitimacy "because Oversoul died." And people will believe that shit.

Really I'm still all about Elyse and Saint right now. Flipping a coin tbh.

Pedit: We'll see.

This post makes no sense. Please elaborate. Who is "They"? How is Oversoul being killed? Is it happening in one of Rev's imaginary games? If Elyse is scum, why do you think "they" should be killing Palkia anyways? That's dumb.

Do you want to just hammer yourself since Rev is clearly feeling a bit impotent at the moment?

[Rune]

I'm going to attempt to be less condescending now, I've mostly vented my frustrations.

I still see no reason why lynching HI now would be too bad an idea though, so I'm perfectly happy to continue recommending a hammer.

@Oversoul:

If I tell you who I actually think you should protect, it is more likely that the kill won't go that way. Or that it will. What the hell do I know?

That being said, prior to the point where scum read this post, I think they would be planning to kill Jake or IFtown!Palkia, and you allegedly can't protect Palkia. I would recommend protecting Jake, but WIFOM so make your own decision.

[Rune]

Why?

I think town. This is a mislynch.

Which of Oversoul and Palkia is scum then?

[Rune]

Why?

I think town. This is a mislynch.

Which of Oversoul and Palkia is scum then?

Why does there have to be scum between them?

I'd say if there has to be, it's oversoul, based on palkia derp hammering scum.

If the set of Palkia, Oversoul, Hostile, and Havoc doesn't contain at least two members of a scumteam, I will be surprised.

This, absolutely.

Nothing has changed. Except, you know, Havoc was confirmed as scum.

[Rune]

Oh dear I said something that doesn't tally exactly with something I agreed with 600+ posts ago.

You're right... evidence has since shown that line of thought to be faulty. [/sarcasm] .......... but no, the opposite is true. Havoc's flip confirms it. Why do you now disagree?

At what point will you admit to being stubborn to the point of being detrimental to town?

[Rune]

Read the thread

yeah I will when I have time, but somebody can give me a summary?

Gs guilty isn't super useful because we suspect palkia may be trolling as he has hard scumread Elyse since d1. Elyse claimed vt but I'm not sure she isn't pr just lying to avoid a claim and possible nk. Iso palkia.

Meanwhile the counter wagon to Havoc from d1 needs to have scum on it. If palkia and oversoul have both claimed pr then hostile must be scum. If hostile flips town, I can't trust oversoul or palkia and atleast one is lying.

[Rune]

Also, iso hostile and realize how not helpful she has, even admittedly, been.

[Rune]

I think we should lynch oversoul.

Everyone listen to the crazy bong smoking reverend.

Jesus loves you all.

vote oversoul

I really, really want to lynch Oversoul. But I think HI lynch gives more information to town given the PR claims and HI's lack of cooperation. Oversoul is obviously playing the game and making an honest effort either way, while HI is not. If Oversoul gets to L-1 though I will hammer.

Meanwhile the counter wagon to Havoc from d1 needs to have scum on it. If palkia and oversoul have both claimed pr then hostile must be scum. If hostile flips town, I can't trust oversoul or palkia and atleast one is lying.

If there is anyone lying it is Palkia. Either way, we have at least 1 scum between {Elyse, Palkia}.
If Elyse flips town lynch Palkia first thing.

His hammer on Jeanne may have been to save face for his hammer on PB. He can't look partial when applying his hammer.

Why do we need to have 1 scum between Elyse and Palkia? I don't trust the claim or Elyse's response enough to believe this with 100% accuracy.

Let's just rope me up then, hm? If my lynch clears up the wagon one way or the other, all the better no? That also means I've one less to worry about.

Yes please. I did give you the chance to hammer yourself. If you were town you would still be able to win.

[Rune]

this game has a GS in it does it not? wouldn't the real GS have just cc'd him?

Why do you think this... when there is no indication at all that a particular role (GS) should exist in this game?

Agreed. Jake's play has been very erratic lately.

But to be clear, Jake and Elyse are not both scum Anyone who suggests that is silly.. Between the two, I would think Elyse is more likely, although Jake's play lately has been worse.

[Rune]

I'm never doing that, Rune. That's sub-optimal play. The wagon needs to be natural and without a self-vote.

I was just being cheeky.

[Rune]

my bad, confusing games. disregard that post. i'd explain but not sure how much that would violate the rules

was so many really necessary?

Was that post necessary? Vote hostile. Or, better yet, good content!

[Rune]

I really, really want to lynch Oversoul. But I think HI lynch gives more information to town given the PR claims and HI's lack of cooperation. Oversoul is obviously playing the game and making an honest effort either way, while HI is not. If Oversoul gets to L-1 though I will hammer.

HOW CAN YOU RECONCILE THESE THOUGHTS IN THE SAME PARAGRAPH OMYGOD

Let's walk through this...

Rune wants to lynch Oversoul
HI lynch gives more information
HI is not contributing to the game state
Oversoul is trying and contributing to the game state
If Oversoul gets to L-1, I will hammer the person who is trying and contributing to the game state (TOWNIE FUCKING THINGS TO DO) as opposed to HI who is not contributing, cooperating, or making any honest effort and is overall a better lynch for information.

?????????

I don't believe you and HI are the same alignment. HI is a better lynch but if you get to L-1 without my vote I doubt we will get an HI lynch at all. I would then hammer you and feel great about it regardless of the flip. Just because you are more engaging than other people doesn't mean you are helping town. For example, while we disagree that there is for sure scum in {you, hostile, palkia} then I don't think we have much to discuss about this game.

I'd prefer to lynch you... notice my first vote D3. I don't like your claim crumb as I've said, but you've made a claim and that makes me give you the slight benefit of the doubt.

My post isn't that difficult to understand and it is completely consistent with my thoughts on today as I have been posting.

[Rune]

If Jake gets to L-1 I will hammer him regardless of claim.

My hammer is bigger than yours.

[Rune]

God this game is going nowhere. If I promise to be nice can we work together and make a collective town decision?

@Oversoul.

My avatar may not be an accurate representation. I share your pain.

[Rune]

od this game is going nowhere. If I promise to be nice can we work together and make a collective town decision?

Was this addressed to me?

Addressed to anybody willing to listen. I'm really sick of the way this game is going.

[Rune]

Sure. What do you want to talk about?

Can we agree that it is almost certain that the counterwagon to Havoc was scum driven? I'd point out that said wagon is exactly the wagon on Elyse right now. If you disagree, please do your best to explain it, because this is obviously a sore point for me.

What do you think about HI townreading both you and Palkia given my above statement?

Right now, who would you be willing to lynch? What information you would get from those flips?

Do you agree we are probably look at a 10-3 setup (I don't think Havoc was operating independently)? In this case, which pairs do you think are the remainder of the team with Havoc?

Out of curiosity, am I the only one who noticed that Palkia didn't regret the lynch of PB (who flipped town) but immediately posted 'regret' on the hammer of Havoc (who then flipped scum). I didn't mention this earlier but I thought it was odd.

Please unvote so we don't lynch Elyse right now.

[Rune]

To be clear, pending the answer to my questions, I am not against providing the hammer on Elyse. But it isn't going to come from me until the right town motivation is there. Right now it isn't.

p-edit Thank you Jake.

Please feel free to also answer my questions to Oversoul.

[Rune]

Sure. What do you want to talk about?

1. Can we agree that it is almost certain that the counterwagon to Havoc was scum driven? I'd point out that said wagon is exactly the wagon on Elyse right now. If you disagree, please do your best to explain it, because this is obviously a sore point for me.

Yes, I think we can agree on that. I don't think both scum were on the PB counter wagon though.

So we agree, that assuming you are town, either Hostile or Palkia are scum? I agree it is probable that there is one scum on the counter wagon.

2. What do you think about HI townreading both you and Palkia given my above statement?

I think she could be scum. I think she might be trying to stall a claim. I wish Palkia would stop being a lurker and definitively say he has a guilty on Elyse, otherwise I will lynch HI.

Palkia being a lurker is a huge problem and I really don't trust him enough to base my actions at this point on his posts. Until that changes, I believe we have enough information available to the whole town to do a good job at hunting scum independently of Palkia.

3. Right now, who would you be willing to lynch? What information you would get from those flips?

I am willing to lynch Elyse, Jake, HI, Palkia. My preferences may change. Elyse would give us information on Palkia. Palkia would also give us some associative tells. HI + Jake because I really dislike their play so far, not entirely sure what can be gleamed from HI given her iso. Jake probably would give us some associative tells too.

Jake's play today has been really subpar. I understand the town motivation for this lynch. However, I really don't think it is optimal, although I haven't ISO'd him and no immediate associatives come to mind except weak pushes on Palkia. Either way, I would rank Jake as the lowest priority of the four you mentioned. My problem with GS Guilty lynch is that I don't trust Palkia, and I don't necessarily trust Elyse's VT claim. I don't think that a flip on either of these players gives DEFINITIVE information, at least from my perspective. I think we have options which will give definitive information. For example, I am quite confident that you (oversoul) and HI are opposite alignments.

Do you agree we are probably look at a 10-3 setup (I don't think Havoc was operating independently)? In this case, which pairs do you think are the remainder of the team with Havoc?

Yes. The norm on MS is for games to be 10:3. I dunno who the pairs are yet. Need more information. I have a couple of speculations maybe, but I don't want to reveal them just yet.

That is fair. When you feel like bringing up possibilities, let me know. I think either today or D4 we are ready to put forward more information, such as this.

Out of curiosity, am I the only one who noticed that Palkia didn't regret the lynch of PB (who flipped town) but immediately posted 'regret' on the hammer of Havoc (who then flipped scum). I didn't mention this earlier but I thought it was odd.

Yes, I saw this. Yes, I thought this was odd too.

Another reason I have a problem basing my actions off something Palkia thinks is a good idea.

Please unvote so we don't lynch Elyse right now.

[Rune]

we have a guilty so we lynch the guilty right? I mean that's how I always play

Do you care if the guilty comes from a troll who has quick hammered on both lynches, who lurks and who himself was at one point willing to unvote despite the alleged guilty? Does it matter that the guilty comes from your biggest scumread (at least, that was the case prior to the unprompted claim).

[Rune]

@Elyse
@ Rev

Please answer the 5 questions shown in post 1339 above and feel free to add your comments on Oversoul's reply and my response to that.

[Rune]

it does worry me some that it is palkia claiming a guilty but it takes a really ballsy scum player to hammer his buddy and then fake claim a PR with a guilty. I say ballsy but actually it would be really stupid because if he and elyse are scum he'd be banking on town cred til the end of the game which would almost never last that long. The other possibility is he is town trolling which I realize is still a possibility, I really don't want to be in a situation where town had the chance to lynch scum and ended up lynching town.

I would like to see a post from you with a detailed read on HI, and a response to my assumption that HI and Oversoul are of opposite alignments. What would your reaction be depending on what Elyse would flip?

I do hope you are able to catch up soon and realize that lately you have been pandering to several different people and haven't come across as genuinely scum hunting.

[Rune]

2. Rev is town. Not helpful town, but town. Saint and his slot are also really problematic to this game, but I am expecting Saint to post more shortly, and we'll see how that goes. I also think that an HI lynch is probably best to give information on the three you mentioned here, but that gets much more into the realm of subjectivity than the rest of my points.

1. 3. and 5. - I don't recommend lynching Palkia at all today. I just also don't recommend lynching Elyse. If we agree HI or Palkia is scum, then HI flip from your perspective gives solid info about Palkia and Elyse (and could potentially make your claim more believable too), and definitively reveals at least one scum. Since this situation doesn't rely on Palkia providing information, and since the benefits of the flip are at least as good, why do you disagree that this is the optimal lynch?

I'm not saying I think Elyse is lying about VT. It just wouldn't surprise me and I'm not discounting the possibility. But troll/fakeclaim!Palkia seems quite plausible so I think we disagree on the value of an Elyse townflip. Without more from Palkia I don't think we will come to an agreement here.

[Rune]

Your own assumptions:

Base: Oversoul is town.

A. HI and Palkia are opposite alignments.
B. Elyse town means Palkia scum.


Scenario 1.
HI flips town.

By A. Palkia is scum. No info about Elyse from the two assumptions.

Net result: 1 scum found. Additional value to town is that there is less suspicion on Elyse.

Scenario 2.
HI flips scum

By A. Palkia is town.
By B. Elyse can't be town. Elyse is scum.

Town win.

Of course, this is your perspective assuming you are town and you believe in the two assumptions I made (which you have explicitly agreed with in the last few posts).

So either you should reconsider your reads or think about my logic for a second, and realize that your current assumptions lead to the logical conclusion that an HI vote is at least as good as an Elyse vote, and relies only on the information available, not on waiting for Palkia to post more.

[Rune]

Note that I don't agree with assumption B, but it is a direct quote from you and this was meant as an illustration of the logical conclusions of your assumptions, not mine. My disagreement with assumption B furthers my reason for believing that HI is a better lynch candidate than Elyse, since I place less value on the information gained from the exchange between Palkia and Elyse. Therefore, even if you re-evaluate assumption B, HI is still the logical lynch choice.

HI has shown no motivation to protect her own town PR if in fact she does have one. The opportunity to claim was there, and wasn't taken. If you, HI, and Palkia all claim PR then one of you needs to be lynched and this is again an argument against lynching Elyse. Since you assume you are town, you'd have to choose between HI and Palkia, who we already assume are of opposite alignment. You can see that this doesn't change anything from the scenarios above, unless you decide that Palkia is a better lynch than HI. That would be an interesting argument, but we aren't there yet.

[Rune]

Wouldn't we get the same amount of information by lynching Elyse?

Elyse flips town, Palkia is scum, HI town?

My suggestion requires no additional information and does not require us to trust additional information (both of those points are questionable concerning Palkia).

My suggestion is also compatible with both of our reads in terms of information given. Since I disagree with your opinion on Elyse-Palkia, I don't see the Elyse lynch as providing the same level of information. Objectively, this is true because it is not impossible that Elyse has a town PR role with a gun. Very unlikely, sure. But I'm uncomfortable enough with the idea that I quite firmly believe in my HI argument.

[Rune]

If HI is a PR, I would say Palkia is a better lynch than HI.

This is important. I really like this post from you, even though I'm not sure what my own opinion is.

[Rune]

But if you lack that confidence in Palkia, I take this as additional reasons not to lynch Elyse.

No matter what HI flips, from your perspective, we lynch scum next. Trading any town, including PR, for a scum kill is worthwhile in this setup. Especially when I don't trust the town in question (HI) to be a valuable scumhunter in the first place.

Given our D2 scum lynch, doing this trade gives us either D4 with 6 town 1 scum or D5 with 4 town 1 scum. Either way we would end up with 1 scum and outside of lylo.

Of course, this hypothetical continues to assume you are town.

[Rune]

2. Rev is town. Not helpful town, but town.

Yeah this isn't looking like my finest moment. I really don't care though. I'm putting the effort in, in the sense I'm at least bothering to keep updated, and if I'm around in endgame, I'll be useful because I'll have a lot more info and a lot less people to work with. So I'm not losing any sleep over the matter. It's not like we're lacking in leadership.

Still, I've given you reasons why hostile intent is town. I think oversoul is scum. I want to lynch oversoul first because, naturally, in a situation where I think we have scum/town, I'd hope to lynch the scum without having to lynch the town. I'm making this clear just for the sake of post-flip discussion. You say I'm not helpful, but maybe I'm right and just failing at getting my thoughts across is a manner that makes sense to others.

I expect we'll lynch HI, and I'll probably end up supporting it. The palkia/elyse situation can wait, the waters are muddy and I think we're best off simply hoping that palkia doesn't pick up his prod and gets subbed. I don't think we should lynch though until palkia or the replacement is here.

I do Actually agree with all of this. Except oversoul has claimed pr and has been willing to contribute significantly while HI has done neither. What is your opinion on this?

Lynching without more info from palkia and saint is suboptimal.

[Rune]

Yes, if there was a good cc it would have been easy to make the lynch. You mentioned the doctor cc already and everyone has posted since without a doctor or jailkeeper claim.

[Rune]

@oversoul: which players would you be comfortable protecting if they claimed pr?

[Rune]

Including palkia

[Rune]

I have no problem with a Jake scum read. But I have a problem with anyone suggesting Jake and Elyse are scum together. But yeah,I'm perfectly happy with a hostile lynch any time and oversoul is playing more and more town.

[Rune]

So now everyone thinks palkia is just a troll? Jake Hi would imply this. I want this to be very clear.

[Rune]

I'm past the point of trying to establish meta, this game is bad and not worth the effort. I'm JOAT and I will confirm axe is town. If oversoul doesn't protect me, lynch him. Nobody else should claim unless they have a scum reveal.

[Rune]

Because this game is fucking terrible. If you are town then oversoul is scum and I'd be happy for him to be shot. Palkia is annoying as fuck and obviously trolling, so shooting him will make the game better but not help Necessarily help town. I believe saint is more likely town than Jake at this point.

[Rune]

Oversoul or palkia is scum. If that's not the case town deserves to lose. Shoot one of them and we will lynch appropriately with a focus on Jake tomorrow.

[Rune]

I would shoot oversoul, arceus played super scummy and I immediately posted my fear that oversoul would play well enough for him to become townread. The crumb is scummy. Palkia is obviously following the game and chose not to lynch you, he responded right after your claim so he could have hammered earlier. This is town behaviour. Rev and I both stated either you or oversoul were scum.

Honestly just make up your mind. Your play was intentionally bad but it doesn't make me happy about it. That being said if oversoul is alive then he has no choice but to protect me every night or he will be lynched on my nk. So I don't really care who you choose As long as it is one of them.

[Rune]

It's ok. You picked the right game to do it it's fucked anyways. I like palkia as town for not lynching you when he obviously could have. Oversouls whining seems genuine but just shoot him. If palkia is vt we shouod still have an investigative role to look at Saint or Jake.

[Rune]

It's ok. You picked the right game to do it it's fucked anyways. I like palkia as town for not lynching you when he obviously could have. Oversouls whining seems genuine but just shoot him. If palkia is vt we shouod still have an investigative role to look at Saint or Jake.

You want her to shoot the only way that you will live tonight (me)?

I feel like there is some selfish motivation here in that you just want to die to be rid of this game.

Hello scum,

If I wanted to die I wouldn't have claimed. Hostile was ready to shoot me

[Rune]

Fair. I don't see how you can honestly justify shooting a protective role in this game but whatever.
I'm happy to protect you until this game ends. We will be stuck in hell forever. Together.

Hello scum,

You mean you will protect the tracker.


Shoot oversoul. Lynch saiNt tmrw

[Rune]

Axe reads town. He is godfather or town or town pr.

[Rune]

Shoot. Oversoul. Saint will be lynched in a second tmrw. Does your kill happen during day or nigh?

[Rune]

Lolol. Shooting saint is optimal. But I would be happier if you shot oversoul.

[Rune]

We've been very forgiving in this game starting with dan and Rev so I'm not surprised if scum hides behind trolling. I've pretty much put on oversoul blinders though. palkia chose not to hammer hi and this seems really town. Best case scenario is oversoul dies protecting someone tonight.

[Rune]

Going to replicate havocs self hammer with your nk?

[Rune]

Hostile, sorry.

[Rune]

Are tracker and gunsmith incompatible?

[Rune]

He admitted to lying about Elyse but also mentioned being roleblock before later saying it was entirely a joke. just puts me off. But yeah, not hugely relevant at the moment.

[Rune]

Wait one second

[Rune]

I roleblocked axe last night.

[Rune]

Track is a lie

[Rune]

Fuck me I know

[Rune]

Because I didn't trust his play. When I play against axe I have an additional wincon of not losing to him. Godfather axe scares me.

[Rune]

I wouldn't randomly post this shit and make it up as scum.

[Rune]

To explain further, my end of d2 thoughts were that axe or oversoul could be scum. I knew oversoul wouldn't attempt the nightkill himself but axe might. I told you I thought he was town since that was my investigation and I didn't want to role reveal, but didn't want to express godfather suspicion at all, letting everyone think I thought him town for sure.

I Would have a hard time believing he is scum, because he would not value a win by trolling as he has done, but he is definitely lying about the result from last night.

[Rune]

Specifically, a nightkill on me.

[Rune]

I was posting this afternoon rudely from my phone while with friends, and was concentrating on HI so I derped hard.

Anyone want to help me get off my high horse and join Rev in the playground? Hahaha

[Rune]

Scum please for the love God shot me in the face tonight

Axe claimed after the hammer so it makes no Difference. Of course, Hi might miss this.

Axe might be hard scum reading saint and hoping tracker claim draws nk to vt. Or lying godfather bubussing a partner. Who knows.

[Rune]

Either way I'm not convinced that saint is any worse a shot than before the claim.

[Rune]

Well that's obviously not 100% true but wtv. Fuck it all. I'm done ranting.

[Rune]

If I'm scum, I was in the fucking clear regardless of flip. If scum I obviously didn't care about bussing, I voted for havoc on the first two days.so your post is wrong.

[Rune]

Trololololo

[Rune]

I wouldn't randomly post this shit and make it up as scum.

And I would? Wtf..

I don't even need to quote anything you've posted for everyone to know you are trolling hard as fuck right now.

[Rune]

I was posting this afternoon rudely from my phone while with friends, and was concentrating on HI so I derped hard.

Anyone want to help me get off my high horse and join Rev in the playground? Hahaha

Likely story...

So not only did you not use your ability on your scum read, you also forgot that you had used it?

What garbage... This dude needs a lynch.

D2 you showed town. it wasn't on my mind since the nk still happened. With everything in hi I just wasn't thinking about it

[Rune]

Not responding to you until tomorrow, if I still have the ability to do so. You're full of shit lol.

[Rune]

I do, however, now think axe is vt who wanted saint dead and wanted to draw nk.

[Rune]

I was posting this afternoon rudely from my phone while with friends, and was concentrating on HI so I derped hard.

Anyone want to help me get off my high horse and join Rev in the playground? Hahaha

Likely story...

So not only did you not use your ability on your scum read, you also forgot that you had used it?

What garbage... This dude needs a lynch.

D2 you showed town. it wasn't on my mind since the nk still happened. With everything in hi I just wasn't thinking about it

I meant D3.

[Rune]

If hi flips scum this will be the most hilarious twilight ever.

[Rune]

Yes

[Rune]

Bud your plan to get yourself nk won't work hahahaha

[Rune]

I said not responding to you. I'm aware this doesn't count but it again shows you are obviously trolling.

[Rune]

I'm so obviously town it is disgusting axe is fucking this game just so he can get nked out of it. I pity the dumbass who fall for this.

[Rune]

Did someone put something in the water?

You must have spilt some stupid juice back from the other day lol

[Rune]

Shouldn't have handed out the bing's
bongs

[Rune]

yes

[Rune]

Scum is dumb.

@palkia who are your scum reads?

[Rune]

No let's not cause I'm not scum

That HI wagon was highly suspect, even though palkia was lying about Elyse I still think Elyse is scum because of how the HI counter happened.

vote: Elyse

This post is retarded.

Actually just looked at the final VC. Rune/Elyse/Axe/oversoul were first 4. I believe rune's claim so not him. Not surprised to see Elyse was next. Yeah I'm good with my Elyse vote.

No idea if Axe is scum with Elyse or not. I'll look.at interactions later

This post is also retarded.

Hopefully palkia posts soon, though even though my signature says everyone deserves a second chance, palkia doesn't. I'm never ever ever playing with him again... Like ever. But only if he.turns out.to be town. If he's scum he did a nice job.

Good night

P.edit - Yeah I realize that.

Anyone want to take a guess as to my opinion on this? Really retarded.

Don't you have to convince people I'm scum to lynch me?

So you fake claim tracker and get saint killed for no reason? Just think you could have had me ded if you didn't do that and then everyone would see I'm town. If.we weren't in Mylo, I'd say go ahead and lynch me but now it's too late. We are lynching scum today and that scum is Elyse.

P.edit - Idk who Elyse's partner is. Could be palkia, could be you. I'll go through iso's tomorrow or the next day

God dammit at least make me have some motivation to be more creative with my opinion on your posts.

What the fuck, Axe? HI would've shot Jake. Don't even start with saying you're not playing with anyone again. You're one of the biggest problems.

Fortunately, despite the town's MANY fuck-ups, it's clear to me that the scumteam is Jake and Palkia.

I mean I think everyone thinks scum is within {Jake, Palkia, me} (unless someone is thinking Axe?) and I also think we can all agree that Jake is definitely scum since it's obviously not me and Palkia.

I'd like to hear what Rune says since he's the only other person I really think is actually trying.

Also relieved that Oversoul died since there was a small doubt in the back of my mind he could be scum.

Wait I forgot about Rev.

I want to hear from him too. I don't think anyone is scumreading him either.

If Rev is scum, I don't really care. It means that town was suicidal, and he didn't have to do shit to win.

Axe is obviously fucking town.

Why the fuck is it obvious that you aren't scum with Palkia? Why would you say this?

Also, scum are hilariously dumb for shooting either me or Oversoul. Rev was by far the best kill. If Oversoul was alive today he would have drawn a lot of heat. If Rev is scum, Jake or Axe would have been the best kill.

[Rune]

Actual comments:

1) The fact that Oversoul and HI were town and PR is really shameful. That counterwagon to Havoc was terrible. HI played poorly intentionally and while I understand why, proper play could have helped town immensely. Unfortunately the quickhammer is the least suspicious spot on the wagon.

2) I will finally be able to admit that my tunnel on Oversoul was about 60% just to avoid NK and to establish one viable strategy for meta as either alignment. Unfortunately, as I've already said, by the end of D3 I gave up entirely on this being a remotely decent game, so that's not important to me right now. So, I apologize for having antagonized you so much.

3) Jake is playing scum. Mediocre scum in a game full of shit town.

4) Palkia is scum too.

5) If Elyse is scum I will be sad that this game was so shit I was unable to catch her. Based on the NK distribution I believe that someone was trying to frame Elyse as scum (@Oversoul, never point this shit out until LYLO or confirmed!scum, it makes you look really scummy because you introduce wifom for future NK). Elyse' scum read on Axe throughout the game is also town indicative to me.

6) We have another PR somewhere. Claim now.

[Rune]

I am not going to be voting until I can hammer, as I am really the only confirmed town. With 6 alive we need 4 votes, so this should work well, since otherwise it will take all the other players to form a lynch.

I want everyone to answer these two questions:

Jake or Palkia?

Why?

[Rune]

Both of them are really keen to insist palkia is scum,

No I haven't, why are you lying about me. I'm insisting Elyse is scum and idk who her partner is.

@rune, none of those posts were retarded. Also please don't use that word again. Its very offensive to me. My mother is deaf and has cerebral palsy and I grew up with mean kids calling her retarded so I hate that word.

My apologies. I have explained why your posts were terrible below.

No let's not cause I'm not scum

That HI wagon was highly suspect, even though palkia was lying about Elyse I still think Elyse is scum because of how the HI counter happened.

vote: Elyse

Why was the HI wagon suspect? The only reason Elyse wasn't lynched yesterday is because I'm the only damn town member who thought it was worthwhile to question Palkia. Which was pretty obviously worth doing. HI was intentionally playing poorly to instigate her own lynch.

Despite Palkia being your biggest scumread, you would have been happy to sheep him into lynching Elyse. This is incredibly opportunistic of you. In fact, your play D2 was outright scummy.

Actually just looked at the final VC. Rune/Elyse/Axe/oversoul were first 4. I believe rune's claim so not him. Not surprised to see Elyse was next. Yeah I'm good with my Elyse vote.

No idea if Axe is scum with Elyse or not. I'll look at interactions later

Who should Elyse have voted for? Her biggest scum read claimed PR (and was telling the truth). You aren't arguing for anything here, you're just making up words to push against Elyse.

Hopefully palkia posts soon, though even though my signature says everyone deserves a second chance, palkia doesn't. I'm never ever ever playing with him again... Like ever. But only if he.turns out.to be town. If he's scum he did a nice job.

Good night

P.edit - Yeah I realize that.

But you know Palkia's alignment, so why would you make this post?

Don't you have to convince people I'm scum to lynch me?

So you fake claim tracker and get saint killed for no reason? Just think you could have had me ded if you didn't do that and then everyone would see I'm town. If.we weren't in Mylo, I'd say go ahead and lynch me but now it's too late. We are lynching scum today and that scum is Elyse.

P.edit - Idk who Elyse's partner is. Could be palkia, could be you. I'll go through iso's tomorrow or the next day

Axe is obviously town.
Rev is town.
I am town.
You know your alignment.

Therefore, you know the alignment of Elyse and Palkia.


-----------------

You also avoided answering my questions.

[Rune]

It looks very much to me like jake and elyse. Both of them are really keen to insist palkia is scum, while waving the finger at one another. That's because numbers are thin and they need to.

They have no choice. As I explained to Jake just now...

I am town.
You are town.
Axe is town.

Jake and Elyse both know their alignment. They also both therefore know Palkia's alignment at this point.

Note:

Fortunately, despite the town's MANY fuck-ups, it's clear to me that the scumteam is Jake and Palkia.

VS:

P.edit - Idk who Elyse's partner is. Could be palkia, could be you. I'll go through iso's tomorrow or the next day

In any other game, I would suggest that Elyse could be doing a really good job of sheeping me into her own victory as scum. The only real difference of opinion we have had since end of D1 is on Axe, However, she has done enough independently, such as deciding to vote Havoc D2 instead of Oversoul who I said I wanted to vote for (causing the bus to be unnecessary for a strategy of sheeping me), and the NK distribution including tonight does not seem to me like it would come from Elyse.

RC was a good kill.
BBT was a terrible kill, and I think a very unlikely candidate for PR hunting. He was likely killed because he said he wanted to lynch Elyse. This isn't actually a threat to Elyse and if I were her I would have killed Jake (if not partner).
Oversoul/me was a terrible kill. Scum were the only ones with confirmed knowledge of Oversoul's alignment. Everyone else was against him. This kill only benefits Reverend since he was actually the optimal kill. But, since I don't care about Reverend's alignment, I choose to believe that Oversoul was just a bad kill. I don't think Elyse would have made this mistake.

To be clear: Reverend if you are scum this game, you are being pathetic by paying absolutely no attention, accidentally posting content related to multiple other threads, etc... and this is not an acceptable strategy imo. I'm just going to continue to ignore the possibility.

The only thing Elyse has posted today that I really didn't like was: "It is obviously not Palkia and me." I want to know, from her perspective, why this is true. I'm not going to provide my opinion on it until she answers that.

[Rune]

Axe and rev aren't obviously town.

I didn't see your questions as I was jogging while posting. I'll look for them when I get to work

Well, you know they are town because you are scum.

I know they are town because Rev winning as scum right now is, in my opinion, tantamount to cheating. I know beyond any reasonable doubt that Axe is town as well. My investigative result as well as his play confirms it. I am absolutely certain of my town role as well.

I'm not going to let the conversation move from that point of view. Factually, scum will be on any lynch that I am not part of. So..... you're going to need to work around this.

[Rune]

You need to claim "not scum" at least 4 more times before I believe you.

[Rune]

1585

[Rune]

Yeah... I'm the troll this game....that makes perfect sense.

[Rune]

Why don't you care if I believe you? I'm the only truly confirmed town alive right now and if I'm not in on the lynch, scum is. Early in the game, sure. Right now? You probably should care.

If you don't care, who are you addressing when you claim not scum?

[Rune]

Iso me. Inno on axe is obvious.

I didn't say the only reason I focused on oversoul was to avoid nk. That would have been a terrible strategy. It is only good because he was also playing poorly, especially the wagon on Pb and because arceus was atrocious. I exaggerated my read. People being honest is not a requirement in this game nor should it be expected, even from town. This isn't trolling.

Anyway, I'm pretty confident that I know who I will end up voting for.

[Rune]

What if d1 I asked you if you were pr? Being honest in this case would be stupid. This is a game of deceit and of using knowledge exclusive to you to manipulate other people towards your win condition. But anyways, I'm not here to philosophize. Just to lynch scum.

[Rune]

What if d1 I asked you if you were pr? Being honest in this case would be stupid. This is a game of deceit and of using knowledge exclusive to you to manipulate other people towards your win condition. But anyways, I'm not here to philosophize. Just to lynch scum.

I think spending the entire game promising to catch up tomorrow is worse. So is lurking to the point of almost never posting. So is paying so little attention that you confuse games. There is so much disgraceful behaviour here. Lying is not on that list.

Anyways, this conversation has no point. I want to hear more from palkia and elyse. I'm ok with anyone voting for jake right now.

[Rune]

So is using 2 1-shot abilities on the same person, despite the first one nearly confirming that person's innocence.

Nearly just isn't good enough.

[Rune]

I can't help being busy in RL and falling behind, I did my best to catch up but the game got away from me. The mistake I made had nothing to do with not paying attention it had everything to do with the gunsmith claim and hey I'm human, mistakes happen.

You are really comparing accidents and unforseen circumstances to deliberate acts?

There is an equal impact to the game I am playing, so I don't really care which is which. And it's not like you've been inactive for just one period. But this is really off topic and we should just move on to lynching you.

[Rune]

VOTE: jake

That's two votes. If I'm wrong, scum can hammer fTw.

[Rune]

scum will be hammering me. The sad thing is nobody can even tell me why they think i'm scum.

I *could*

[Rune]

Your activity has nothing to do with my vote for you.

[Rune]

I never said I had a guilty on you....it doesn't make you innocent.

Your iso is terrible. The only person you went for in d2 was palkia which is fine but you put in no effort. Palkia makes an obviously dumb claim and immediately you gun for elyse. Palkia admits to trolling, you still go for elyse. You haven't posted analysis or reasoning for pretty much anything. I know axe and Rev are town. Nk suggests not elyse. That leaves you and Palkia.

[Rune]

I already explained that I don't care what alignment Rev actually is. If he is scum, it is absolutely shameful. I'll town read him into losing the game idgaf.

[Rune]

How exactly was Hi a counter wagon? I started it because I knew palkia was full of shit.

[Rune]

She claimed vt and said palkia was bullshitting...which he was.

The L1 was unacceptable. Do you Realize you yourself got off that wagon too?

[Rune]

So town lying is the worst thing ever but a wagon based on a lie is better than a wagon based on someone trying to look scummy enough to get lynched? True....smh

[Rune]

UNVOTE:

Going to be distracted for a while and don't want a lynch to happen when I can't check.

[Rune]

#blacklisted

[Rune]

scum will be hammering me. The sad thing is nobody can even tell me why they think i'm scum.

And you can't tell us why you aren't!

sure I can.

If you tell me this has something to do with a ring of power, you're getting lynched regardless.

No star wars references please. I really don't like that movie.

[Rune]

Why are scum incapable of doing that?

[Rune]

Jake or palkia? Why?

[Rune]

I don't think so. But in a different game it would be entirely plausible.

Palkia or Jake?

[Rune]

If you don't answer that in your next post I will vote for you.

[Rune]

I was being intentionally vague, but fine.

If you had to choose to lynch either Jake or Palkia today, who would you choose and why?

[Rune]

*grabs popcorn*

Seriously though, the more you two argue the better of town is. Much as I'd like to contribute by making cases for and against either of you, none of it matters as much as your posts right now.......

*continues eating popcorn*

[Rune]

Also, Axe, if you seriously think that the last minute push on PB day 1 was entirely town (Palkia, HI, Oversoul), then I don't really know what to say.

Palkia is scum by PoE

I know I just promised not to comment... but scum slip?

[Rune]

Look dude, you don't have to be a dick OK?

He can't help it. It's just who he is.

[Rune]

Is anyone not ok with quick lynching Palkia right now?

[Rune]

If not, why?

[Rune]

VOTE: Palkia

Is anyone not ok with quick lynching Palkia right now?

Me, cause I don't want to quick lynch anyone.

@Elyse and Jake

Now, how does that change if I tell you that I have been keeping 1-shot vig this whole time, and it isn't actually either LYLO or MYLO.

Discuss.

[Rune]

No. I'll have to shoot tonight and I will be NK so I will have to leave the game in the hands of my townreads to finish it off.

[Rune]

But, in twilight I will post my final reads and let you know exactly who I think needs to be lynched after my death.

[Rune]

(and who I will shoot)

[Rune]

Well, I wanted to firm up my reads. Since I will be dead tomorrow I want to be able to make my opinions perfectly clear. I don't really trust Axe or Rev to vote in the best interest of town. And this also allowed scum to commit to their Night-talk plan which will now have to be abandoned and therefore make them easier to identify.

Prime example: Why does this mean you will be lynched or shot no matter what? Why couldn't it be Elyse and Palkia who are lynched and shot?

[Rune]

Still convinced of their innocence? I'm open to cases right now. I want us to be sure and to do this right.

[Rune]

Look Jake... the advantage scum have in mafia is in having information that nobody else has. The counterbalance of being PR is being able to selectively acquire and introduce knowledge into the game in order to help catch scum.

If scum is Elyse and Palkia, and we lynch/shoot both of them... Why would you be lynched or even care if you are lynched the next day? What does it matter? What do you know that I don't know?

Yes, I tunnelled on Elyse, Palkia, and you at the beginning of the day, I wanted to see what scum would do when they thought they were in control of the game. Now that I've seen everything I wanted to see from you and Elyse (never expected to see anything from Palkia anyways), it was time to turn the tables and let town do their job with all the information they need.

You said you weren't sure on Elyse&Palkia combo. Tell me why. Give your cases against Rev or Axe (although my inno on Axe and his play pretty much means he is safe right now).

[Rune]

So you're saying town has no chance of winning? You're quite the optimist.

[Rune]

That was your most useful post of the game. You didn't think about this earlier?

[Rune]

Yeah, I give up on this game. VOTE: Rune

[Rune]

VOTE: palkia

[Rune]

Jake, come back and hammer

[Rune]

Mod: can I use my one shot double vote now?

[Rune]

The game is over, it's ok. I don't actually have a kill, just thought it would stir up some interesting discussion. My vote stays on palkia. I will die during the night phase and I recommend lynching elyse tomorrow. Nobody cares if Jake's slot wins or loses anymore.this is probably my last post in this game. I would enjoy playing with elyse again but really, this game has been a huge disappointment.

[Rune]

So if he is town, it is optimal to shoot you?

[Rune]

VOTE: jake

[Rune]

Oh... Sorry Jake, I didn't realize your vote was the hammer.

Oh... Sorry Jake, I didn't realize your vote was the hammer.

It was? No vc only had Elyse

You're both outrageous. My vote on Jake was a joke...Yes it was a hammer. And I don't believe you didn't know it.

[Rune]

sneaky bustard

[Rune]

lol at this shit town.

Jake staY off this site.
Elyse gg even though town did all the work for you.

[Rune]

yeah, when I get home.

Palkia was a major proble, so was Hi Who at least had understandable motivation.

Pb was a really dumb lynch though, really unforgivable.

I think Jake was the most obvious scum here but once he replaced out I didn't care if he won so I recommended elyse. I thought it was jake palkia.

[Rune]

On the bright side, Rev wasnt scum laughing his way to the bank.

[Rune]

Meh, scum were pretty obvious. That's pretty annoying.

Oversoul, PB is an alt of The Bulge.

That's why lynching Havoc/Jeanne was an atrocious idea? \o/

[Rune]

Rune, would you like to continue our theory conversations? Also, would you like to hydra at some point in the future?

1) Converse away..

2) Sure, but I'm very hesitant to play another game on this site without verifying that the majority of players are moderately competent, unlikely to confuse games, unlikely to simultaneously lurk and troll, and unlikely to replace out.

[Rune]

Rune, I'm not even engaging with your ego.

You're by far and away one of the worst players I have ever played with.

I know the concept of "engaging" is really complicated and difficult to understand, but, you know, I didn't think you'd fail so spectacularly to get it right.

That's really hurtful you know. Like... really hurtful. I respect your opinion SO MUCH, and my self-esteem is so low, that's really crippling. How will I live with myself if an absolutely useless player doesn't approve of me </3 . Please take it back....

[Rune]

@Oversoul I think I would enjoy playing a full game with you. You replaced a really useless player and with the PB counterwagon (the most ridiculous counterwagon ever for 2 PR and 1 VT) there was really very little chance that I would play amicably with you this game.

I think it is bad play to be analyzing kills publicly like you did, people should be doing this on their own and only bring it up when it is relevant to a strong scum read. It is very easy for scum to take advantage of that.

Similarly, having a crumb for a PR doesn't help you at all as town. Scum could do it just as easily. If it is an obvious crumb, you are likely to get NK. If it isn't an obvious crumb, then if you claimed another role nobody would refer to the crumb to contradict you... so all it shows is that you planned to claim that specific role, but only after you claim and show everyone it was there in the first place. I see absolutely no advantage to town in doing this.

I also think you could have been a lot more subtle about asking for townreads at the end of D2.

But yeah, all in all as I mentioned I exaggerated my read on you quite a bit to keep scum off my back. (I did still think there was a solid chance you were scum, I'm not backing off of that). Even though it looked like I was tunnelling on you, I was also exploring other options.

Jake showed scum clearly on D3 and today, and either he or Palkia would have been the correct shot from Hostile (even though Hostile should never have been in that situation in the first place, and Axe and Palkia should never have fake claimed). I don't think Saint was a good target for HI.

Tbh I don't think Elyse played poorly as scum at all. I think her tell was mainly that she was obviously trying way harder than her posting indicated. She may have sheeped me just a little bit too much, but it's an easy thing to do when it involves comments on suboptimal play. If town was stronger I think she would have made more obvious slips.

[Rune]

Rune, there is a reason you lived until end game and I didn't.

You seem like you think quite highly of yourself, so I'm gonna let you work out why that might be.

Yep, your NK was due entirely to your mafia prowess. My lack of NK had nothing to do with me having a PR with a bodyguard in the game. How could I have been so blind????????????

Do you realize that you were trying to lynch Rev and refused to lynch Havoc? That a lot of your arguments were absolutely terrible? That everyone, including town, was happy when you were gone? I'm gonna let you work out why that might be.

You're really talented at this whole not engaging thing.

[Rune]

If you say so.

@Oversoul just pm me.
@Elyse it would be nice to play again.

[Rune]

@Oversoul I used Doctor on Rev N3, which would have avoided LYLO. I'm really happy you didn't protect him, (I was hoping you would know I had doctor) as if I died Elyse would have been able to destroy you.

Cop on Axe N1 was suboptimal (you were my second choice) and I knew that when I sent in the action. I did it because I was unfamiliar with the setups for a Normal game and didn't want to wait until later to use it. Also, Axe is a much better player than he showed here, and could be very dangerous. Roleblock on Axe N2 was the correct move, as scum I think I would have been his N2 kill. Doctor on Rev N3 was also correct.

@Elyse I'm glad to know that I was right in thinking you as scum would want to kill Rev. I was hoping my stance on oversoul going into D4 would make scum think he would be an easy lynch.

[Rune]

@Elyse, yes RC was a good kill. Why BBT though? Whose idea was it?

[Rune]

@Oversoul:

A crumb would be useful for a counterclaim, so I suppose there is that.