Mini 1697 - a Re-balanced Game of Mafia - GAME OVER

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm so sleepy

VOTE: Netherspite

I was like 13 back then.

Time to start the game.

First vote FTW.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Start talking evil!

Are you Annie?

'cause she certainly brings fire.

[RadiantCowbells]

He just dodged my question so hard.

VOTE: Firebringer

Won't confirm or deny being Annie.

[RadiantCowbells]

I want your soul roasted on a spit.

[RadiantCowbells]

Wait wait wait.

What do you want?

That's an interesting reaction to a single RVS vote.

[RadiantCowbells]

I didn't reaction test at all, besides the vote on you which is exactly what you do in RVS; randomly vote.

Firebringer is awfully defensive.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright.

I'm really feeling a Thesp/Firebringer scumteam because I placed a non-RVS on Fire and Thesp immediately tries to reset the game by asking a random question.

Forget about that crap, vote Fire.

[RadiantCowbells]

Firebringer just attacked me as a player without attacking my alignment.

Hint: that's what scum do.

[RadiantCowbells]

Very glad to see that no moderator action was taken.

Well isn't that a load of bullocks lol.

Thats one of those things people say when they try to pretend to be Enlightened.

Enlightened being capitalized is highly awkward.

I think we're onto something with Firebringer, especially considering that no one really followed it up and everyone kept RVSing, and a few people made pointed attempts to change the direction of discussion.

[RadiantCowbells]

Netherspite, hop over?

I'll take the red beam.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that he could easily be scum with Fire since the way that he was defending him was really weird.

but Firebringer has more going for him as scum than pre-flip associative tells so I'd way rather be there.

And a Firebringer scum flip would make me vote park on Thesp for the rest of the game just based on the deliberate topic change after a non-RVS vote on his partner, so I'm not feeling a Dominator vote right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

There's a definite deliberateness to the post.

I'm not buying that he didn't read my vote, and I'm not buying that he just decided to ignore it and ask pointless random questions, especially since he specifically requested that everyone respond, ie drop what they're doing and answer his questions that aren't related to the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's literally not about the questions at all.

It's about the fact that he decided to go RQS mode when we'd already had non-RVS votes.

And asking everyone to respond is very let's change the topic mode.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, then he comes back and addresses the ongoing game issue but doesn't comment at all on alignment, nor any of the responses.

[RadiantCowbells]

They all had a pretty solid excuse to; he diverted town discussion into a different direction with his random questions.

He was the one who changed the topic. He did so without addressing the non-RVS vote before it at all.

And then he said nothing about the game besides the ongoing game comment when he was clearly reading it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Are you dense?

There's a massive difference between not addressing something and making a conscious effort to change the topic from it.

There may be scum in the people before, there may not, but only Thesp deliberately tried to force it away.

And you should know that if people wanted to address your vote they would do it even if there was another topic being discussed.

But they didn't.

And that's in a large part because of Thesp.

I hate All Alone's RV, I think PMysterious's is okay because it was clearly something he was planning to do.

[RadiantCowbells]

Suppose Firebringer flips Town. What do you make of Thesp's post in that case?

Still bad for trying to shove us back in RVS.

Why is All Alone's vote bad?

Because it's a naked vote onto one of my other scumreads right after I FoSed one of the scum.

You are aware scum very frequently RVS each other, yes?

[RadiantCowbells]

So you're going to scumread thesp regardless of Firebringer's flip.

obviously?

Firebringer may still be scum, but Cowbells is trying unnaturally hard to paint Thesp as scummy no matter what, and her logic is reachy as hell.

You're either stupid or scum.

VOTE: Alchemist21

I think Firebringer might have been a red herring and now we have Alchemist chainsawing Thesp because I wouldn't drop the issue.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, Thesp's deliberate attempt to undo progress made in the game is far scummier than Firebringer's wishy washiness or defensiveness.

Alchemist is being so nonsense right now that I'd be happy speedlynching this even if it flipped town.

[RadiantCowbells]

See, if you were Town you'd be voting Thesp in that case, not Firebringer.

The Firebringer associative tells carry over to Thesp but not as well the other direction.

I think everyone will be able to see for themselves you're the nonsensical one here.

Nah, I learned something from 1674.

Shitty town players are higher priority lynches than scum.

I don't think it's likely that you're really chainsawing Thesp this hard, but I do think you're going to be a liability as long as you're alive so I'm going to rid myself of it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Last time I left a bunch of terrible town players alive I got mislynched D3 and they couldn't lynch the last scum in 4 day phases.

My literal last words were calling that person out for deliberately misrepresenting me.

So no, I don't care if it's TvT. That's not happening again.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sometimes a joke is just a joke.

Usually it is, but it's still worth investigating.

This is a very interesting remark from someone who claimed scum.

This comment from Thesp looks like scumhunting but really isn't. He's not analyzing Pistachi0n's alignment, he's not asking her anything meaningful. It's like information instead of analysis, except it's not even informative.

VOTE: Thesp

Yes, exactly.

Further, he doesn't place a vote. He's just all "interesting remark" and lets it go.

Unfortunately, Alchemist is an asset to scum regardless of his alignment so he's going first. Not taking risks with players like this ever again.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh dear lord

he is scummy because 1) he tried to divert attention from my firebringer wagon in a very sideways way
and 2) the only content post he makes calls someone out without a vote or any sort of follow up

not because he asked people how experienced they are.

comprende?

[RadiantCowbells]

Of everything you could comment on in this thread, you chose that.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm liking Alchemist21's points re: RadiantCowbells's potential hypocrisy.

(I sometimes get stick-in-the-mud types who insist on not answering and making a big deal about that, but those types are more likely scum in my recent experience.) I'm not feeling the "Thesp is changing the subject" angle as feeling very genuine.

Both two 'reasons' to vote me, and one 'reason' to vote All Alone.

That said, I'm not interested in a RadiantCowbells lynch today.[/quote]

So he says he'd rather go onto lurkers than people he has scumpoints against.

That makes a ton of sense.

Wha? Are you seriously characterizing your post #7 as progress in the game, and my inquiries to all players as an attempt to undo that?

Yes, and yes.

Would it make a difference if you were to learn that I always open games by asking questions of everyone? Also, I appreciate the content so far (misguided as I think it may be), but I would also appreciate your responses to my questions earlier, and hope it's not too much of an imposition.

Why are you doubling down on this?

RVS is over.

You trying to drag me back to this strikes me as odd.

Then you should vote RC too.

Why not ask Thesp to vote me too, given he's already expressed a scumread on me for two different reasons?

1) How much Mafia have you played before (in person or online)?

4 years worth.

2) How active are you typically in a Mafia game? That is, is there sort of a posts per day frequency that's approximately typical for you?

About 3.

3) Are you scum?

No.

How were we supposed to know it was non-RVS?

Because I just finished talking about how it was fucking scummy?

[RadiantCowbells]

Amazing quote tags.

[RadiantCowbells]

Wait wait wait.

What do you want?

That's an interesting reaction to a single RVS vote.

Firebringer is awfully defensive.

Nothing here indicates a non-RVS vote to you?

[RadiantCowbells]

No, I'm curious if your reaction to my opening post is different if I open every game I play in a similar manner. (It appears to be a strong basis for your vote on me, so I feel it's worth exploring. I'm still curious - would it affect your read to know I always open the same way?) Thank you for your responses to my other questions!

Why would you do that?

We had non-RVS content. What's so important about asking those 3 questions that it justifies distracting people from actual gameplay.

You may do it in every game, but this game has legitimate content before it and I bet most of yours don't.

What's so important about your random questions?

Not in a terribly strong or interesting way. I don't seem to be the only person with that sentiment. As an aside from a policy standpoint, I can't imagine it would be beneficial to tunnel on one person before half the player list had posted.

Still way better to start off with something than fully reset the game.

And yeah, the push was exaggerated. All RVS pushes are exaggerated. You get the wagon, you see how people react to it, it snowballs into content.

How is it "tunneling" to push a wagon in RVS? That's how you end RVS to get into real content. Firebringer was not confirmed scum because of his defensiveness, but it would have been a way better lead into the game than we ended up getting.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm feeling really shitty about mafia right now.

I don't feel like doing this.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright, that's gotta be scum.

VOTE: Firebringer

[RadiantCowbells]

Would you all agree that I'm either causing or contributing to a negative play experience in this game?

[RadiantCowbells]

@Quaroath what is your read on Radiant?
You think that Nether and him would make it so obvious they were scum buddies?
I mean showing buddy relations this early seems unlikely but who knows.

Keeping vote on RC though, We can lynch Nether tomorrow if RC flips mafia.

So you're questioning whether or not we'd be so obvious together but then agreeing to lynch Nether based off of my scumflip.

Right.

[RadiantCowbells]

I just can't decide whether Quaroath or Firebringer is more likely to be scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Quaroath

Firebringer's inconsistencies can be explained, maybe, by his noobiness which is why I originally wanted to switch.

As pointed out, Alch voted first. So it obv isn't omgus. VOTE: netherspite

LAL

Invoking lynch all liars here makes no sense at all. And if Quaroath thinks I'm scum, and there's associative tells between me and Netherspite, why isn't he voting me.

I don't understand why his vote goes onto Quaroath wagon at all. It strikes me as him trying to pressure someone as my scumbuddy and continue pressure on me without being responsible for the mislynch.

And just calling it LAL sort of deflects being responsible for the lynch.


Also, look at his case on me.

Pretty sure we got a good lead in after your unneeded flip out.

Unneeded flip out doesn't make me scum nor is it scummy and nor does he describe it as such.

Also, trying to hard to direct town, perfectly okay with speedlynching town,

Neither of which makes me scum, nor even more likely to be scum and nor does he explicitly describe as scummy.

AtE's earn votes

Which is basically Quaroath saying that he's obligated to vote me, ie taking no responsibility for it.

Sort of like with the Netherspite vote.

Also radiant, please don't piss me off by getting uppity because i finally answered that.

So basically he gets mad because I insinuate that he might be scum with ulterior motives.

PEDIT:

Yes I questioned if you would make that blunder, but so far you guys haven't shown any amazing yet. Using bad logic to try to pressure players doesn't give me the best opinion at your ability to not make it obvious you are buddied, I was more asking if he thought the same or not.

Just because you don't understand my logic doesn't make it bad.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you're not a noob then quit acting like one.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you're not a noob then quit acting like one.

[RadiantCowbells]

See, I can be a broken record too.

[RadiantCowbells]

It means I don't fucking know if he's bad town or scum and I'm happy to lynch either category.

[RadiantCowbells]

Kind of like somebody else who I've voted this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm wondering if you're not ramping up your pressure as a chainsaw to defend Quaroath.

There was a little bit that looked like coaching but I didn't immediately go down that avenue.

[RadiantCowbells]

Besides the fact that he's voted two different people based on policy reasons without calling them scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

And that's also two different lynches he didn't take responsible for calling scummy?

C'mon. You can't claim to not be a noob and also claim to not see the false dichotomy you're presenting here.

[RadiantCowbells]

Lynching town even if bad is still bad. This is anti town statement.

Not true.

So are you saying I am town but bad? Make up your mind.

I'm saying that it's hard to distinguish between bad town and scum.

Actually, it's funny that we're in this avenue because I'm one of the few mafiascum players who actually bothers to fucking sort players like you instead of just lynching them.

ah, because I would coach my teammate *sarcasm*. I am not defending Quaroath especially since I am questioning him about what he thinks since he hasn't said that much.

Then why are you chainsawing him so hard.

Pedit: Point out the false dichotomy. What two lynches?

Moi et Netherspite. He voted both without calling either of them scummy.

You also have barely given reasons for your votes which all just seem rather defensive reaction lynches than you thinking anyone is scum

Yeah, as if I didn't just wallpost about Quaroath.

I note that you have never before claimed a read on Quaroath and are now claiming a semi-scumread without any substance to it, which is very common scum play.

[RadiantCowbells]

Directed at you specifically? no.

Directed at the town in general? yeah.

Why the hell would I tell my scumread why I think they're scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

The blatant buddying between Nether and Radiant is hard to swallow. Can evil be this bad they would be helping each other?
I think more likely one is evil other is town. Can't be that bad.

That's a great excuse to lynch me and say "Oh, Netherspite must have been WKing."

I'm really feeling a Firebringer / Quaroath scumteam.

[RadiantCowbells]

Meh. I think RC is tryhard town. She's NOT worth lynching right now simply because she is movign the game. She'll catch herself up later on in the game if shes scum.

She's not a good D1 lynch at all.

That's possibly the towniest thing I've ever read in a mafia game.

VOTE: Firebringer

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean considering I have a meta of either getting lynched D1 as town or carrying, I don't see scum backing off here, not in this manner, not with my vote on the slot.

[RadiantCowbells]

This whole doggy line of reasoning makes no sense.

If you think that we're scumpartners, why would we make it super obvious with our mutual townreads and "coming running in 8 minutes after RadiantCowbells comes calling."

And if we're both town, then how is us buddying up not a good thing.

And if you're just calling one of us town and the other scum, what's the point of this whole doggy business?

I remember in my first scum game on this site when I noticed a townblock between Candillan and Ravenpaw and to break it up my strategy for a long time was to do exactly what he's doing now; spinning a mutual townread that formed a townbloc and started pushing lynches into something manipulative, and I eventually won by making Candillan vote Ravenpaw.

I like the Eventi wagon.

VOTE: Eventi

[RadiantCowbells]

The vote on you was more of a vote off of Quaroath than a vote on you, if that's what you're asking.

[RadiantCowbells]

Netherspite is a terrible wagon and everyone in it right now should feel bad.

[RadiantCowbells]

Dominator basically scumreads everyone as soon as they get a vote.

He's honestly too scummy to be scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, but 13 people 3 scum games are the norm, so where does he get off with that being a town slip?

I think if anything it's more likely that Firebringer's scum and that post may have been planned as such to grab for towncred.

With all the weird play that suggests inexperience from the slot though, I'm going to leave it for now.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't see the point for the townie to act like him.
Neither for scum.
He looks like a troll or something.

Yeah, plus the ludicrously early self vote that I don't really see coming from a genuine emotional reaction.

@Eventi, because he's town.

Why shouldn't I townread Netherspite?

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, I'm back onto this.

VOTE: Firebringer

Trying to break up town blocs is newb!scum 101 because they don't realize you can just NK them.

[RadiantCowbells]

So PMysterious you have any reads? This feels like your first post in the game. I had to actually look back and see that you were in the game.

Been very lurking this game.

So far I think Nether and Raidant are most likely scum or at least one. If only one then I have no clue on the other. Perhaps dupin.

Anyways going to V/LA till Sunday. Will try to post 1 or 2 times till then, but no promises.

I am back, also I don't think Dom is a good vote. He kind of seems to naturally act scummy regardless of role.

So it might be better pressure someone else. Radiant and Nether teaming for instance seems like a better option like I have said a few times. I need to back and read all that I missed.

Okay Nether you are putting words into Eventi mouth.

The blatant buddying between Nether and Radiant is hard to swallow. Can evil be this bad they would be helping each other?
I think more likely one is evil other is town. Can't be that bad.

That's a great excuse to lynch me and say "Oh, Netherspite must have been WKing."

I'm really feeling a Firebringer / Quaroath scumteam.

So your reasons are me and Quaroath are the exact same for me thinking its you and Nether. Except me and Quaroath are hardly buddying and more or less just agreeing you are behavior is good reason to suspect you.
'
I still want my questions answered by the way Quaroath if you would please.

The blatant buddying between Nether and Radiant is hard to swallow. Can evil be this bad they would be helping each other?
I think more likely one is evil other is town. Can't be that bad.

I doubt eventi and Dominator are both opportunistic scum. Maybe dominator, Eventi laid out reasons for his vote.

Both these players aren't high in suspicions. Radiant and Nether have been buddying ever since Alchemist voted Radiant.

You try to sort us so you can lynch us both.
Don't lie. You said in a previous post that you thought Alchemist was bad town so you would lynch him.

I am asking questions of Quaroath I do find his getting on both you and Nether to be suspicious especially since he had a vote on you earlier. What changed?
I want him to give reasons for both votes which he has given only little in that department. Kind of like you.

Also more than half of your wallpost was directed at me not at the reason for your vote. Which most of it seems because you don't want to put pressure on someone else besides yourself. The reasons feel forced.

So, in summary of events:

1) Radiant votes me after I vote him in a OMGUS moment.
2) Then Radiant tries to continue saying I am scum of some sort when pressured by Alchemist doesn't give any good reasons.
3) Alchemist votes him, then Radiant OMGUS him.
4) Then Quaroth points out the flaws in Netherspites point about who OMGUS who and votes Nether and Radiant responds by voting him without giving any substantive reasoning beyond the "he doesn't want to be responsible for my mislynch" when Quaroth hasn't even said you were scum once!

@Quaroath what is your read on Radiant?
You think that Nether and him would make it so obvious they were scum buddies?
I mean showing buddy relations this early seems unlikely but who knows.

Keeping vote on RC though, We can lynch Nether tomorrow if RC flips mafia.

Eventi is suspect of opportunistic lynch train, but I still doubt that. Nether you look much worse than Eventi and Radiant continues to try to divert attention away from himself and Nether.

You changed your vote within two posts basically and its not like Nether didn't say this earlier about Eventi so it isn't first time he called him opportunistic scum, that post was that convincing? I don't buy it.

Like, he literally cannot stop obsessing over it, goes back and forth between calling Nether scum and me scum and both of us scum.

He's way too interested in our mutual townread for a D1 situation.

Newb scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

And if he were town just being an idiot, he'd be being an idiot over it because of a scumread on a specific member or the pair, not just jumping all over the pair of us looking for a weak link.

[RadiantCowbells]

There's really no reasonable grounds for townreading Dominator.

Firebringer saying he's town strikes me as WKing him.

This is where I'd vote Firebringer again if I had another vote.

[RadiantCowbells]

Netherspite is literally the most obviously scum-led wagon that I've ever seen.

Literally happy lynching any of those 4 right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

Heya Ank.

Don't hate me please

[RadiantCowbells]

Eventi's town.

Let's do Firebringer?

I'd also support Dom just to get a lynch through on someone who isn't Eventi.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'd take Dominator over Eventi, now that Firebringer doesn't seem to be an option.

VOTE: Dominator

[RadiantCowbells]

Persivul, the only reason you think that I'm ever not playing to win is because you don't make decisions at my level.

And don't think I didn't notice that you replaced in and immediately started discrediting everything I've done, then ended up sheeping basically all my reads.

[RadiantCowbells]

The rapport between eventi and Persivul is way too casual for scumbuddies. I don't think that Percy's scum.

I actually want to hit up Dominator the most for that "clear's Thesp's name" comment. That feels way more like a grab for towncred than anything else, especially with a partner down D1.

And FYI, the main reason I jumped off Eventi was that I thought there were better lynches. He wasn't explicitly a townread of mine, and I'd probably have hit that up in the next few days.

Also

I'd prefer my own lynch over TheDominator37 because it will provide more information to the town + our personality clash with eventi will stop negatively affecting town overall performance.

What the fuck is this?

[RadiantCowbells]

I think Netherspite might be scum and this is some sort of major bus play.

It would explain a lot, actually.

The premature scum claim is something I only really see when there's some sort of bus going down, and of all the people on the wagon Netherspite is the most susp.

He is a clown. What information will his flip provide?

1) you can look at the fact that he hasn't been wagoned yet and look at his wagon.
2) you can look at the way people address him in thread.
3) What's with this obsession with information from lynches? Lynching scum > getting information.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, the reason you prematurely claim is so your partner doesn't slip up in some way with his knowledge of your alignment.

And Eventi feels way too happy going into the grave, like he's set up his partner to win.

[RadiantCowbells]

I can't fathom the Firebringer kill at all.

VOTE: TheDominator

Eventi wagon was heavily scum driven. We should look there first, and let's start with the guy whom was universally scumread but still managed to survive over someone who only a few people scumread.

Btw claiming scum and getting my hopes up is evil

[RadiantCowbells]

Let's take a look at this logic instead of the reads themselves for a moment.

You're still drawing an arbitrary line of sand in the ground whereby there's scum in the 3 of us, when in reality there is no reason to think that. If he's scum, who is to say that his partners would jump on the wagon faster than town who scumread him? If he's town, he's been so scummy that town could be realistically jumping on it 3 at a time.

Whether the guy's town or scum, there's no call to assume there's scum on the wagon, besides finding scum independently who just happen to BE on the wagon.

That said, I don't like this vote anymore, so

VOTE: Persivul

You're not this dense.

[RadiantCowbells]

You are claiming that 3 townies voted on 1 townie right after each other while scum were just chilling.
Yeah, I am not going to buy that.

This is the kind of knee jerk reasoning and false dichotomy creating that makes towns lose games.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ank, if your lynch pool is between Percy and Netherspite, then vote the one that's scum this game, aka Percy.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why exactly do you scumread Daves and Thesp and what's your read on Percivul?

[RadiantCowbells]

All Alone, I'm going to vote you if you don't expand on your reads.


alright fuck it Duppin is clearly claiming cop and scum have noticed it by now so let's stop pretending it's not obvious at this point

Duppin don't hardclaim but there's no way Persivul would be this blind to continue fishing for a cop claim by accident.

[RadiantCowbells]

ow am I saying that?

Yeah, no topic changes. bye dude

Ank vote him, he's scum for fucking sure this game

[RadiantCowbells]

The only condition under which Duppin should hardclaim is if he has an investigate target which is not Dominator.

Otherwise he should remain silent about the claim.

Whether he is or isn't, we're lynching Persivul today.

[RadiantCowbells]

So basically your case is that Thesp is ignoring the wagon on Persivul which would make Persivul scum.

That would make a Persivul lynch nearly as useful, no? how is Persivul null when your case on Thesp is basically predicated on him being scum

[RadiantCowbells]

Drat and bebother these dwarves!

[RadiantCowbells]

Can you give me some context to this quote? I don't understand what you're saying.

Anyway, this game continues to give me the feeling that most of the high activity players are scum.

VOTE: Davesaz

Let's see where this goes.

[RadiantCowbells]

btw, Thesp wagon is terrible.

[RadiantCowbells]

And yes, I meant to be voting Persy.

Duppin's logic sucked but I don't scumread him at all for it.

I do not like at all how Persy kept fishing for a claim from Duppin.

But I really wanna wagon Daves or Pistachi0n right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

I meant, most of the high activity players (ie all but you) are town.

I voted you for fishing Duppin's role, as I said at the end, but I corrected Duppin's logic in the same post.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, as if I didn't already clarify.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh, and hello there Mr. Beetlejuice.

[RadiantCowbells]

I will do Persi if it comes down to it but I'm really liking my current vote, particularly considering Persi is replacing out.

who's unaware of RC's playstyle,

Which is basically saying that scummy and/or reachy things I can do can be handwaved by "RC playstyle!"?

I wasn't aware that Thesp did that RQS crap 100% of the time and it seemed like a convenient diversion away from a push on his scumbuddy at the time.

[RadiantCowbells]

I find it difficult to believe that he didn't really understand Ivul = persivul.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, you must be right. TheDominator is making a conscious effort to misspell names to obfuscate town's ability to read his posts after he dies.

Your intent certainly wasn't clear in the post I quoted.
Several interpretations are possible.

This hyper formality and the hyper formality above is highly indicative of scum under pressure.

This is scum. Lyncheroonies it.

[RadiantCowbells]

over 99% of it is empty space after all.

[RadiantCowbells]

What exactly do I need to be trying harder at?

Funny, because neither of the lynches happened and the lynch that did was a mislynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

Wait wait wait.

So you agreed that All Alone is scummy as fuck, and yet you want Alchemist to switch votes.
Davesaz is also on your wagon with garbage pretenses and flip flopping over what his views are, and yet you want me to switch votes.

Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.

[RadiantCowbells]

Pistachi0n, why do you not seem to care which of the two they vote?

If Persy's your top scumread, why do you want people to switch to one of them as opposed to helping you vote your scumread?

[RadiantCowbells]

Obviously I would prefer them to vote Persivul but voting Thesp would be more productive than a no lynch.

Not how you put it at first, oddly enough.

Like I said, I would like Alchemist to switch to my scumread, but my post was responding to him saying he was voting All Alone because he was still holding onto hope that the wagon would pick up steam.

If you agree that All Alone is scummy, would you consider a vote switch? It's an academic question because after Dave's' last I'm not changing my votes until he's lynched.

If my memory is accurate, I'd be willing to consider switching to Persivul or All Alone. After verifying that I'm remembering correctly.

This post is essentially just him hedging his bets to be able to jump on either of the other major wagons if they pick up without being scumread for it.

Can you guys get the eff off Thesp?

[RadiantCowbells]

I'd note that I just read through Daves ISO and not once has he directly addressed All Alone, nor has he given any sort of real read on him.

[RadiantCowbells]

AA has not addressed Daves directly either, but has claimed him as scum while not voting him.

So we've got some super power associative tells there that make me want to lynch one of the two, preferably Daves since everyone seems to agree he's scummy but no one will vote him.

[RadiantCowbells]

Did anyone else besides Persivul play with RadiantCowbells previously?
Does his current play match his townplay or not?
I just realized that I took Persivul's words for him being town in this game without doubt and I think I shouldn't have.

How the hell are you getting from town!RC to scum!RC from my recent posts.

This looks more like a chainsaw defence of Davesaz than anything, especially considering that Nether townread me long before Persivul replaced in and is now acting like his townread was predicated upon Persivul,

[RadiantCowbells]

It also segways really nicely into a push on Persivul which regardless of flip would give him impetus to try to mislynch me tomorrow.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like why the fuck are people still voting Thesp? Get the fuck off, now.

[RadiantCowbells]

Town's losing this game, 100%.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hint: they are.

[RadiantCowbells]

Davesaz has "weak town" on 5 of the players.

The remaining players are
Alchemist: gives a null read on a slot that's been at the center of a lot of attention.
Thesp: one of the major wagons
TheDominator37: prob cop inno

duppin: lean town but unproven

This one's important. Note that unproven implies that it's because of the potential for him to be cop, yet Dominator just gets weak scum.
These are contradictory.

pistachi0n: null, but understandable because slot is a lurksack.
Persivul: the other wagon.

So basically every single one of Davesaz's reads is just following the flow the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

That's a horrible way to segway into the game.

RQS isn't meant to have conclusions, it's just meant to be a friendly ice breaker to get discussions happening and get things to talk about.

Using the absence of any specific "conclusion" is disingenuous.

[RadiantCowbells]

Honestly, I'd rather not play with NM and combine that with his graspy and opportunistic opener and you've got the recipe for a vote.

I'd still rather do Daves or AA though.

[RadiantCowbells]

Did you know we already had this discussion?

The fact that you know about the Thesp thing but haven't realized I already scumread him for it until I got an adequate explanation suggests you're reading scum QT talking points and not the game itself.

[RadiantCowbells]

Anyone who hammers Thesp right now is getting instalynched, just so you know.

He's at L-1, you have been warned.

[RadiantCowbells]

Absolutely, it's objectively bad and it was a huge waste of time and it caused me to scumread him and entirely derailed my early game with associative tells that didn't exist between him and Firebringer.

Why is he scum for it though, considering he does it all the time?

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh, it wasn't L-1. Got the votes kinda mixed up with the replace.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey hey NM

knock knock

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, I still feel like you're probably town but leaving you alive is way too much of a liability when we already have Dominator.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[RadiantCowbells]

Karma. I'm only returning the favour.

[RadiantCowbells]

NM mislynched me after I was the only town to catch any scum (I pushed the SK all of D1 and D2 and finally got them lynched) then in 9 way with a town PR versus a mafia goon managed to lose.

Like, fuck off. You might still be scum and I'm not inclined at all to have you around as town, so bye.

[RadiantCowbells]

It bears noting that literally my final post in that game before I got lynched was calling out the final scum for misrepping me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Actually, this is what I want to do now.

VOTE: Netherspite

If you're wondering why I hammered NM, read http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=61852

[RadiantCowbells]

This is an interesting reversal from "I'm never moving my vote from davesaz". Why the change of heart?

As soon as it was clear that the lynch was between Thesp/Persivul he pretty much vanished from the game, and his read on me has been going all over the place with no real reasons given.

[RadiantCowbells]

There was nothing derpy about that hammer.

NM is a liability to town, flat out, and I have no interest in being randomly voted despite being the only person scumhunting at all.

Read the game I linked you.

[RadiantCowbells]

In fact

VOTE: Pistachion

I keep getting scumvibes from Nether but I still get the feeling he's going to end up flipping town.

1108 was terrible and I think this was the worst vote on a wagon dripping with scumminess.

[RadiantCowbells]

I really don't like the Daves wagon, but I also really don't like the way Ankamius commented on it but did nothing about it.

[RadiantCowbells]

While all of this looks pretty convincing I don't get why you choose

pistachi0n

over

Thesp

if you seem to be having more arguments against

Thesp

? Or did I get it wrong?

The meta evidence against pistachi0n is actually pretty big.

Newbie 1592, she was town, and voted three times on day 1 (240 posts)
Newbie 1603, she was town, and voted seven times on day 1 (411 posts)
Micro 489, she was town, and voted five times on day 1 (366 posts)
Open 600, she was town, and voted four times on day 1 (313 posts)
Open 601, she was town, and voted five times on day 1 (635 posts)
Micro 487, she was town, and voted two times on day 1 (220 posts)
Open 602, she was town, and voted four times on day 1 (503 posts)

Micro 485, she was scum, and voted one time on day 1 (447 posts)

(I'm not counting Open 599 in the statistics, since that game's D1 was 29 posts)

Basically, pistachi0n tends to vote-hop roughly once every hundred posts D1 as town, while as scum, she's much more shy about vote-hopping. And in this game, D1 was 625 posts, and she voted

twice

. That's a pretty significant departure from her town meta.

Whoa, what's all this now?

[RadiantCowbells]

AA, what led to you counting up Pistachion's D1 votes?

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm starting to wonder if I'm really off base this game and we're looking at a weird RC+Thesp team.

So your great theory is that I'm playing to the opposite of my established meta by hard defending my scumpartner?

That doesn't make any sense.

VOTE: Ankamius

[RadiantCowbells]

Abslutely, I'm scumclaiming.

Your idea that we're looking at a weird RC+Thesp scumteam flies in the face of both your experience and what everyone who has played scum with me knows; I don't defend my partners.

You know this, and it's clear that you're using it as grounds to push not me but Thesp.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, if Ank thought RC was scum this is not how he'd go about dealing with it.

[RadiantCowbells]

The intent in 1133 being to push me actually kills my interest in the lynch.

I figured it was just a maneuver to try to get the Thesp wagon going.

Let's VOTE: Pistachion.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to what prompted All Alone to analyze Pistachion's day 1 votes because that is fake as fuck.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: All Alone

[RadiantCowbells]

That's a pretty horrible misrep of why I voted you.

I note that you didn't discuss AA's alignment at all when you talked about his case on you, you just made some counterarguments about your playstyle.

Why do you think he took the time to go back and read your day 1 votes? is that a common thing for you?

[RadiantCowbells]

Ankamius, where do you think AA's analysis of Pistachion's day 1 votes came from?

[RadiantCowbells]

Stop ignoring me you fucknuts

[RadiantCowbells]

no one takes the time to pick a random player and start analyzing their number of D1 votes.

that doesn't happen, at all.

AA is almost definitely scum and based on pistachion's reaction I'd say he's scum too and that was some elaborate attempt to distance.

A mistaken belief that that type of meta is at all useful.

what sort of train of thought leads to you counting people's votes in D1 on a random person where the topic hadn't even come up

[RadiantCowbells]

I went on V/LA and sort of got this game muddled. AA's segway into that post while strange makes sense and I like him a lot more for town now, which is ironic because now I remember that I went through exactly this thought process before then forgot about it then got confused when I reread AA's analysis of Pist.

AA and Thesp are town. I think Pistachion and Nether are both scum but I'd do Alchemist to prevent a NL.

VOTE: Pistachion

[RadiantCowbells]

But still, really, who goes through games and analyzes D1 votes.

That's like the least productive method of scumhunting I've ever even heard of.

[RadiantCowbells]

I reread, found his analysis very natural and townie, forgot about it, reread the same posts and thought there was no way he'd end up doing that as town, then found out that it made sense again and he was town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not voting Ank.

I suggest others also refrain.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ank, would you vote Nether if that's the case?

He's my #1 lynch today.

Thesp, why not nether?

[RadiantCowbells]

I agree that it's a scum pushed wagon.

I'm not sure that Alchemist is scum though, and I think that the scum are more likely the ones who jumped on later, namely Pistachion and Netherspite.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Netherspite

I don't understand how scum are so brazen this game, just piling on to every single easy wagon and not getting pressured or called out for it.

You guys really need to figure your shit out because the Ankamius wagon is scum walking all over you.

Thesp, if you have any confidence whatsoever in my scumhunting ability, do not touch the Ankamius wagon. Help with Netherspite or push something else but don't help scum lynch town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ankamius is correct.

Netherspite just scumslipped by revealing that he knows that Ankamius is as much confirmed town as Dominator by creating a dichotomy wherein Dom/Ankamius were somehow separate from Davesaz.

In other words, Netherspite consented to Ankamius's self description as confirmed town.

Anyone voting anyone else from this point on is scumclaiming.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ankamius's case sucks.

Fact is, Netherspite called Ankamius out for an assumption of Davesaz town in the general case but allowed him the assumption of Ank town in a situation that would involve all players, not just from Ank's point of view.

This virtually guarantees Nether knows that Ank is town and that Nether is scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

No, these are the 3 wagons that were heavily considered scum lead. That's the tying thread, not the fact that they are town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't care if Davesaz is scum.

Netherspite being alive is unacceptable and I'm not changing votes as long as he is.

Look at how he instantly jumps off of Ank in 1332 once public sentiment turned against it. He doesn't have his own reads, he's just following derptown onto bad wagons. Lynch it.

Like, look at his reads in 1315 and 1321. Everything he's saying is about weird associative tells that aren't explained and are clearly just thrown out in a hat to justify his opportunistic vote switches.

Alch, don't criticize my play when you have done fuck all for town and can't scumhunt worth a damn.

[RadiantCowbells]

My "weird associatve tells" were based off of explicit reasoning.

Very interesting how you're essentially chainsawing me while the best defense you can must for Nether is that he -may- not be the only one who is making up reads.

[RadiantCowbells]

I seem to be the only person who actually is, considering that you're still with us.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh, and people should note that none of the interplay between him and Alchemist explain the random pairings that come out of left field.

[RadiantCowbells]

You're "trying" to point out my hypcrisy?

No one ever says they're "trying" to point out hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is forceful, visceral, you don't try to do it.

Town!Pistachi0n, were she thinking I a hypocrite, would be a lot more forceful in that last post.

That's why she and Nether are scum together.

[RadiantCowbells]

So if your current argument is seriously based off of word choice, you need to, I don't know, maybe get a better argument?

This is garbage and tantamount to a scum claim.

Just lol.
You seem to be not making sense literally 90% of the game.
If it is your scum tactic it works fine.

If it's my scum tactic?

So is it or isn't it? What's this supposed to mean?

Nether is just throwing this out to discredit while he waits to see where crowd mentality is at.

Notice that after the Ank thing died out he hasn't give any reads anywhere; as well, the one thing he said DURING the Ank wagon was that me and All Alone were scum for defending him.

Considering that now he thinks Ank is town, you'd expect some sort of revision of that theory, but none.

[RadiantCowbells]

Vote fucking Netherspite, jesus.

[RadiantCowbells]

Davesaz, why not Netherspite?

Note that as soon as crowd mentality went in favour of a lynch on you, you became his #1 scumread.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, the fact is that were Netherspite town, scum would be all over this as an opportunity to push a mislynch and pin the blame on me.

Numerous people have expressed less than savoury reads on him but no one has voted him and I can't get any momentum going.

This is scum for sure.

[RadiantCowbells]

Look at this god awful misrep.

Crowd mentality doesn't have Alchemist as scummy at all, no one is pushing for his lynch.
A few people have expressed minor suspicions of Thesp but there's no momentum there and the stronger town players defend him.

Also, all top 3 of my scumlist are equally scummy for me but not scummy enough to place my vote yet.

IE, let me wait for someone else to start a wagon then I'll jump on it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, he's not even fucking trying.

[RadiantCowbells]

VCA is a shit metric that's the refuge for terrible scumhunters who want to blame their targets for being lynched.

Sorry about Nether but this is scum.

VOTE: Pistachi0n

[RadiantCowbells]

I note that Pistachi0n set herself up to vote Davesaz without doing so, probably in the hopes that a wagon on me will start happening soon.

The slot needs immediate rope.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am leaning scum on Daves but I'd way rather hit up Pistachi0n today.

I get icky feelings about the way Pistachi0n put him as the main scumread over me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, Pistachi0n is obvious scum.

She's way too passive about being scumread, way too passive about pushing her reads, doesn't really have any impact on the game, etc.

The consensus at the time was that RC was acting too stupid to be scum.

So what, you going to do something about it?

If I voted for Davesaz right now, he would have two votes on him and scum could easily quick lynch him without the rest of town noticing. I'm not an idiot. I'm going to wait until he has the chance to say stuff before I vote for him.

"say stuff"? So what, he says stuff he's not going to be scum anymore if you think he's scum now?

Daves wagon sucks. Get on mine.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't care who is scum besides her, I'm not going to get sidetracked on a shitty lynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't know what those two non-shitty lynches are yet, but I do have my vote on one scum right now so it's staying there.

[RadiantCowbells]

You will not get my vote onto any of those players today, and therefore you will not lynch them unless they're town.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you were good enough to force scum to bus, you wouldn't be trying to derail this lynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

So what, you going to do something about it?

So I was responding to Ankamius's observations with some perspective he might have missed since he wasn't around at the beginning of the game. Do you take issue with that?

"say stuff"? So what, he says stuff he's not going to be scum anymore if you think he's scum now?

I would like everybody to have a chance to speak before we lynch today. Even my scumreads. I've been wrong before.

No one asks their scumreads "Do you take issue with that?"

I would like everybody to have a chance to speak before we lynch today, aka let me just stall and see what terrible wagon the town's going to jump on next.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, Pistachi0n has totally checked out of the game, not in an apathy way but more scum is close to majority so I'm just going to lurk off pressure way. You'd have to be pretty fucking dense to not realize it, especially after her view on me 180d by calling me too dumb to be tow

Ankamius is most likely the scum between the pair. I don't like how he immediately let the issue drop on D2 when I FoSed him and immediately reneged, but I also don't like how Thesp townread me for so long then the turning point was me being stubborn on lynches, which is more anti-town than scummy if it's even that.

AA is still obvtown so we're looking at Pistachi0n / Davesaz + one of Thesp/Ank, most likely Thesp just based on the way Pistachi0n is talking.

Flum, Ank, also Thesp if you're town, help us lynch Pistachi0n.

[RadiantCowbells]

I keep talking myself in circles between Ank and Thesp.

I'm not voting in those two and scum are not likely to bus today. Vote fucking obvscum today pls.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Unvote

I just realized we haven't had a doc claim. Doc needs to claim pronto so we can get another confirmed.

[RadiantCowbells]

I would like everybody to have a chance to speak before we lynch today, aka let me just stall and see what terrible wagon the town's going to jump on next.

Do you REALLY think LYLO is any time to be quicklynching? I'm not voting for you because you're way too stupid to be scum.

Oh and seriously this is a fucking scum claim. there's no two ways about it.

[RadiantCowbells]

RadiantCowbells, yesterday you said this. Do you still feel it was scum trying to lynch town?

I don't know. I was really caught up on Netherspite scum which led me to believe that you both were town.

I'm fairly confident in my AA read which leaves me with at least one scum in the pair of you two. I'll figure it out when we get a doc claim and lynch Pistachi0n.

Note the absence of a hammer on Pistachi0n nor anyone trying to move into it.

[RadiantCowbells]

The thing about doc not claiming is by the time we've got like 2 votes on someone which is where town would think about claiming, scum will already be ready to quickhammer.

The proper play here is for doc to claim now, flat out.

[RadiantCowbells]

RC, your argument against me could also be applied to Dave (with the votes not piling on.) do you think we're scum together?

Probably, but Daves might be town.

I feel like you're refusing to review how yesterday went. Also, what do you think of Ankamius yesterday thinking Netherspite was assuredly scum, but pushing Alchemist21? I'm also not convinced that a lack of movement towards someone is an indication that such a person is scum.

I think that Ankamius could definitely be scum but given we have confirmed scum in Pistachi0n I will be lynching there first.

Pistachi0n is scum. 2 of Ank/Daves/AA are scum as well, and right now I'm leaning AA as the town member of the group.

Like, I'm sorry for fucking up on Netherspite but I had a lot of good reasons to do so, one being the one Ankamius pointed out where scum were refusing to lynch him. This one's still scum.

VOTE: Pistachi0n

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, note that as soon as Thesp started questioning me Pistachi0n is immediately like ZOMG RC IS SCUMMY AF AGAIN!

She's literally just bandwagoning crowd mentality.

[RadiantCowbells]

pistachi0n + All Alone + RadiantCowbells looks extraordinarily likely just from VCA alone and assuming the above two patterns are true. I'm not willing to stake the game on this yet, but it's a good starting point to see if this is likely or not.

Help me and my partner bus my other partner then.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, Ankamius's analysis is extremely straw graspy and shit. No one goes into scum chat and says "OK we're going to follow this pattern of votes," and without that being the case the entire exercise is meaningless.

VCA is terrible in general and that's got to be one of the worst examples I've ever seen.

Does anyone think pistachi0n would be the sort that would lie about this? This is important.

I don't see what your point is.

I think Pistachi0n absolutely would lie for tactical advantage, but I don't see where the tactical advantage is to be gained there so I'm assuming it's a true statement.

If you're trying to say that Pistachi0n would have targeted you with the NK because she knew you were doc, that's shit logic. I thought Alch was doc yesterday and wouldn't be surprised if scum thought he was too.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok then.

If you could instalynch any person, Pistachi0n, who would it be?

[RadiantCowbells]

Thesp, Fluminator.

Me and AA have left Pistachi0n at L-2 for days.

Unless you think we're both scum, in which case you should vote one of us, why hasn't she been hammered if she's town?

Think about it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Thesp you need to stfu and vote Pistachi0n.

[RadiantCowbells]

If All Alone is scum, all alone will swing to Ank and quickahmmer.

If All Alone is town, that makes Ank scum and the lynch wrong.

Either way, there's no use in trying to swing the vote without getting Thesp to change his mind.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, you telling me to pull my head out of my ass is a fucking joke considering that the person that I'm trying to lynch, if you're town, is trying to quickhammer you off of the conftown's vote.

[RadiantCowbells]

But if AA is town we'd still be lynching scum, we'd just be lynching one of two scum wagons.

Either way, Fluminator you need to refrain from voting. It can only hurt town at this point.

[RadiantCowbells]

Correlation =\= causation.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Ankamius

sorry

[RadiantCowbells]

Well, considering we had 2 confirmed towns + self worst case scenario would be having 2 right.

[RadiantCowbells]

Not likely, considering that the ending Pistachi0n wagon would still have been:

RC, AA, Fluminator, Ank

plus my remaining on the wagon would have made it incredibly difficult to lynch me later.

[RadiantCowbells]

It would definitely have been an interesting play, but to say that it would've instantly won the game would be disingenuous.

[RadiantCowbells]

I doubt AA would have been lynched tomorrow.