Mini 1682 - Game Over

[havingfitz]

~14 hours and on page 8 already.

RVS? Why bother.....

Not sure how Gypsy's first post is town leaning but over all I like the thought put into your Post 9.

Lickety....I do not like your vote unvote all within the same post. If you realized you didn't want to sheep RC then why go to the problem of making the post at all? Just post something else....or put down an RVS of your own.

@Gypsy..."always a good lynch" = policy.

@Lickety...whose previous votes are null? (edit...apparently BBMolla's.) Why?

@Annadog...what's your point? 1) Have you ever successfully found scum using online status? 2) the game is what....90 minutes old? 3) I was not on the site following my confirm to the mod which was within 20-30 minutes of receiving my PM. One of my phone tabs is typically on mafiascum even if I'm not doing anything so that could = online. Point being, me showing online doesn't mean squat.

@Lickety...if you have no reads on anyone why are you voting Yukiro?

@Lickety...what about ~150 posts in ~4 hours indicates "a reason in the setup?"

The "claiming town" discussion is stupid. And assigning suspicion from it is suspicious.

@Lickety...seriously?

@RC ...seriously?

@Gypsy ...seriously? WTF?

Caught up as of post 192.

Not used to giving reads this early in a game but the 8+ pages changes that a bit.

Mostly weak reads:

• Leaning town atm on RC. baldeagle. BBMolla.
  
  Raised eyebrow at lickety, Drak, Anna, Gypsy
  
  Still thinking on FA, Salamance
  
  Null obviously on Yuriko, whisper and Slandaar.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

BTW...if this game keeps producing content at this rate I think it is going to make things difficult for town to weed through the chaff to find scum.

On the subject of using quotes...the majority of my posts come from my phone and I very rarely use quotes on my phone (unless perhaps in a direct response to someone). If I'm on a computer then by all means...I'll quote quote quote.

[havingfitz]

Gypsy...was BBmolla in your other game? Or have you played with him offline?

[havingfitz]

Lickety....

I do not like your vote unvote all within the same post. If you realized you didn't want to sheep RC then why go to the problem of making the post at all? Just post something else....or put down an RVS of your own.

Why don't you like it though? because you don't understand it?

I explained why I didn’t like it. It was a useless post that had no point to it. It was like fake effort. You sheeped his post 8 vote on BBmolla and then something in his very next post (i.e. #9) made you change your mind? Both before your post 10. So you can’t comprehend two posts at once? And the “don’t understand” type ad hom is going to be a recurring part of your reply I see.

@Lickety...whose previous votes are null? (edit...apparently BBMolla's.) Why?

Because I knew none of those votes weren't serious, hence the unvote. You really need to stop and try and think things through on why I do things or we are both going to get tied of this fast.

You need to really think things through before you type them so people know wtf you are talking about. Even BBmolla had to ask who you were talking about. You need pronoun tutoring. “none of those votes weren't serious” WTF? So they were serious?

@Lickety...if you have no reads on anyone why are you voting Yukiro?

I told my reason for this and I seriously don't like how dull you are coming across. The reason is because I looked at their wiki and made a gut call that they would be easy to get a read out of and voted for pressure.

1) You made no association to your wiki/join date comment to you Yuki vote. It looked like you were talking about yourself and discouraging BB from sheeping your vote. 2) So your only stated reason was because Yuki seems easy to read. How so? You are not clear. And if you have no reads on anyone why maintain the vote on Yuki? Why not just answer my question? Instead you have to resort to ad hom again (calling me dull) which is what people do when they can’t come up with logical/intelligent comments.

@Lickety...what about ~150 posts in ~4 hours indicates "a reason in the setup?"

Its a gut thing.

So useless posting. Par.

@Lickety...seriously?

Congrats, that's like the most unproductive comment you could have come up with

You can’t provide an explanation to your absurd post claiming BBmolla was rolefishing? Of course you can’t. So just diss the question.

Mostly weak reads:

• Leaning town atm on RC. baldeagle. BBMolla.
  
  Raised eyebrow at lickety, Drak, Anna, Gypsy
  
  Still thinking on FA, Salamance
  
  Null obviously on Yuriko, whisper and Slandaar.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

Your vote on me is so weak its ridiculous... If you're not going to put an ounce of thought into how I play and why I do what I do, don't even bother trying to read me.

The fact that you consider the more experienced players town and new players you raise and eyebrow at is very telling.

1) Why am I voting you? If it’s so weak you must see my reasoning and can crush it.
2) My reads are not based on experience. Other than the 4-5 players I have played with I have no idea how long anyone has been on the site as it isn’t something I care about. The newest player could be an experienced player’s alt or have lots of experience offline.

This is a throwaway accusation to further discredit/misrep me as you do with your multiple ad hom during the course of your deflections from my questions.

I’m good with my vote.

[havingfitz]

Mmm... I can see that you're making a very fast judgement call on me.

That either means you are scum or you are still not thinking about the why's and how's for what I do.

I am NOT someone you can figure out in the amount of posts I have posted in this thread,

at least YOU can't.

Did you even bother to read what I had to say about my meta? You are asking an

intuitive

player to explain in great detail; that is not how I operate, so

please for the love of God stop!

How long does it take to make a judgement call on someone? iirc someone posited that it could be done in one post. And nice

False dilemma

, continued

Ad Hom,

and

Appeal to Emotion.

You really like to use those to support your lack of clarity. Don’t you? You don’t seem to have any problem going on in “great detail” why you can’t answer the simple questions/suspicions I directed to you. Instead you continue to hide behind your cloud of intuitiveness and avoid real answers while being defensive and discrediting. This is very scummy IMO. And here’s a little meta of mine - I do not bother much with meta…especially when it comes from the person the meta supposedly belongs to. So while I read the entire game prior to my initial post…any references to meta were probably dismissed in short order.

Lickety....

I do not like your vote unvote all within the same post. If you realized you didn't want to sheep RC then why go to the problem of making the post at all? Just post something else....or put down an RVS of your own.

Why don't you like it though? because you don't understand it?

I explained why I didn’t like it. It was a useless post that had no point to it. It was like fake effort. You sheeped his post 8 vote on BBmolla and then something in his very next post (i.e. #9) made you change your mind? Both before your post 10. So you can’t comprehend two posts at once? And the “don’t understand” type ad hom is going to be a recurring part of your reply I see.

Yes, you explained you didn't like it and I thought that reason was garbage that didn't actually hold much weight because you didn't even bother to try and see the why. Just because you don't like something does not mean it is a valid argument and it is not even an iffy reason to vote someone. I was trying to be transparent in that post. Because that person said they didn't vote as an RVS I thought they were someone who was able to tell alignments strait off the bat and that they were hella good at this game. I decided not to sheep them when I found out that wasn't true.

I “didn't even bother to try and see the why? “ What do you think I was doing when I asked the focking question in the first place? I get transparency…and that would be an acceptable answer…especially over the intuition crap deflection personal attack mode you have assumed. Even still…the fact that your entire vote/unvote post followed immediately after the 2 RC posts which you based your post on gave it a contrived feel. If they had been several posts apart or perhaps on separate pages and you were in a catch up…I could see it. But not so much in your example.

@Lickety...whose previous votes are null? (edit...apparently BBMolla's.) Why?

Because I knew none of those votes weren't serious, hence the unvote. You really need to stop and try and think things through on why I do things or we are both going to get tied of this fast.

You need to really think things through before you type them so people know wtf you are talking about. Even BBmolla had to ask who you were talking about. You need pronoun tutoring. “none of those votes weren't serious” WTF? So they were serious?

Should have been "none of those votes

were

serious." I'll beck to see what was actually said. I have no problems thinking things through. Where

I have trouble is explaining it so people like you can actually understand what I'm saying.

More

ad hom

deflection crap. Why can’t you just explain yourself? Even the person you were referring to (BBmolla) did not know you were referring to him. And with the knowledge you were referring to him…your comments still do not make sense. You tell BBmolla that his previous votes weren’t serious, hence the unvote…but when you made this post the only vote/unvote you had made was on BBmolla based on RadiantCow (posts #9 and #10).…not BBmolla’s previous votes. And there is nothing about post 9 by RC to infer it is not a serious vote on BBmolla. So in summary…you aren’t making any focking sense (again). I think you are avoiding explaining it because of the simple reason it can not be explained.

@Lickety...if you have no reads on anyone why are you voting Yukiro?

I told my reason for this and I seriously don't like how dull you are coming across. The reason is because I looked at their wiki and made a gut call that they would be easy to get a read out of and voted for pressure.

1) You made no association to your wiki/join date comment to you Yuki vote. It looked like you were talking about yourself and discouraging BB from sheeping your vote. 2) So your only stated reason was because Yuki seems easy to read. How so? You are not clear. And if you have no reads on anyone why maintain the vote on Yuki? Why not just answer my question? Instead you have to resort to ad hom again (calling me dull) which is what people do when they can’t come up with logical/intelligent comments.

You are asking about things that I consider to be obvious if the hint of critical thinking is used.

You have just gone a head and completely bypassed that whole critical thinking process for my reasons. All I see right now in your one and two is wifom. Also you are using an aggressive tone and I interpret that to mean that you are going to continue this kind of line of questioning and frankly it is a waste of both yours and my time. You are basically stating that in everything I do I must explain every detail for why I do what I do... that is not my game and I do not want to be forced to play that way. I am really tired of this circular reasoning. I already stated

explicitally

my reasons for having my vote on that person. [/u]You are distracting much more meaningful content from happening with this kind of questioning.[/u]

Your customary

ad hom

comment. How the hell are my points WIFOM? They are fact. You say you looked at Yuki’s wiki and made a gut read they would be easy to get a read from. Fine…I get pressure votes. In fact, my vote on you was in part for pressure and you have responded magnificently (poorly). The point of my original question however was just a simple question as to why you still had your vote on Yuki when you were claiming to have no reads. Which you didn’t really answer (no surprise there). And FYI…when you place a vote while stating it’s because they are easy to get a read on….it kind of takes away the element of WTF that the person you are voting is hoped to respond to. And trying to get questions clarified/answered is not distracting and is meaningful content. (i.e. you

misrep

). Your failure to provide a simple answer and instead enlightening us with a psychological self eval is what is distracting from meaningful content.

@Lickety...what about ~150 posts in ~4 hours indicates "a reason in the setup?"

Its a gut thing.

So useless posting. Par.

I take this to mean that you are not an intuitive player in the slightest and need everything explained to you. I don't play that way. I gave Town something to think about; if you can't see that...

More ad hom…zzzzzzzzz. And deflection. Fact is…you made a comment (of no value really) that when asked to elaborate on could offer up nothing more than gut. This point, aside from your repeated incorporation of ad hom response, is not really cause to be suspect. Useless set up spec that added nothing to the game. And could not be supported by any response of substance other than “gut.”

@Lickety...seriously?

Congrats, that's like the most unproductive comment you could have come up with

You can’t provide an explanation to your absurd post claiming BBmolla was rolefishing? Of course you can’t. So just diss the question.

And so what if I can't! That does NOT mean I am scum. What it means is that I did it for a reason which you have not commented on.

So you accuse a player of rolefishing in a situation where it is obvious he is not rolefishing (unless by all means you are an anti-town PR…then I could see you taking offense to BB’s comments). So you are just throwing mud at BB with no explanation. And what on earth does this mean -“What it means is that I did it for a reason which you have not commented on.”? ffs…..

Mostly weak reads:

• Leaning town atm on RC. baldeagle. BBMolla.
  Raised eyebrow at lickety, Drak, Anna, Gypsy
  Still thinking on FA, Salamance
  Null obviously on Yuriko, whisper and Slandaar.

vote]LicketyQuickety[/vote]

Your vote on me is so weak its ridiculous... If you're not going to put an ounce of thought into how I play and why I do what I do, don't even bother trying to read me.

The fact that you consider the more experienced players town and new players you raise and eyebrow at is very telling.

1) Why am I voting you? If it’s so weak you must see my reasoning and can crush it.
2) My reads are not based on experience. Other than the 4-5 players I have played with I have no idea how long anyone has been on the site as it isn’t something I care about. The newest player could be an experienced player’s alt or have lots of experience offline.

This is a throwaway accusation to further discredit/misrep me as you do with your multiple ad hom during the course of your deflections from my questions.

I’m good with my vote.

1)

Do you want to know the reason I don't like explaining everything? Too bad I'm going to tell you anyways.

/// 2)

I am bunt out arguing over minute details. Believe it or not, I do not have sub par reasoning. Believe it or not, I do not have poor logic skills.

///

I simply, at this point in my life, do not care to debate things that are not the major arguments being made.

3)

I have little experience playing mafia on this forum and don't have very much experience playing elsewhere as well,

/// 4)

but I will tell you that I do have experience arguing points and I can tell you right off the bat that this line of questioning that you are trying to do is a waste of everyone's time.

/// 5)

I don't have a problem if someone inquires about something I said, but to make that the sole focus of an argument is asinine.

/// 6)

At this point, in the games I have been in, I have gone sooo far out of my way to prevent this kind of questioning on me and it has yet to work... No one seems to understand how I play and it is really really frustrating.

7)

But to address you points on why you have voted me and find the people that you do suspicious. It has been all but confirmed that the people that you find suspicious are at the very least new to this site.

///

1)

If you must explain why you don’t like to be clear…by all means...

///

2)

Burnt out over arguing? This is your second post directed at me. And I’m not looking for minute details. I’m looking for details of any kind as to why you have made certain comments. That’s not minute. That’s how the game is played….digesting what people do or say and making decisions based on that info. Info WHICH you do not want to provide. And I don’t recall saying you have sub-par reasoning or poor logic skills. If that’s how you interpret being asked for clarification or questioning things you have done…that’s on you.

///

3)

Your level of experience with mafia has nothing to do with the ability to make comments and defend/clarify them if needed. If you feel so strongly about experience levels then maybe you shouldn’t focus so much on discrediting my questions towards you….

///

4)

How is a line of questioning that is trying to get more info from you….Mr Intuitive-Transparency Guy a bad thing?

///

5)

Personal attacks aside, what are you talking about? I’ve raised several questions (not a single sole one to focus on) and you have failed to address any of them adequately.

///

6)

Maybe it’s you. Maybe others have issue figuring out wtf you are talking about because you communicate your thoughts poorly?

///

7)

Once again…fact or not…join date and experience level is not a scum tell and I do not use it as one. Everyone regardless of their join date has the same chance of being town or scum and for you to bring it up it is pointless. On this point…is the reason you are voting Yuki and feel they are easy to get a read on based on their join date? Ironic…huh.

///

TL:DR:

Despite the page count it’s still early in the game…but I’m comfortable with my vote on Lickety. Why? For those of you not intuitive enough to read my mind….here is why:

1 – His over defensive reaction to the handful of questions/concerns I directed his way.

2 – Posts that make no sense/add nothing to the game….the unnecessary vote/unvote post.

3 – His repeated use of ad hom, misreps, and other logical fallacies in response to me to discredit my play (i.e. weaken suspicions directed at him) while failing to simply provide answers to the questions asked.

4 – His declaration that he (paraphrasing) is a misunderstood thinker who doesn’t like to explain himself. How convenient if one is scum.

5 – The vote on Yuki because she is easy to get a read on while claiming to not have reads on anyone. Perhaps because of Yuiki’s experience level which he (LQ) hypocritically is using as a negative towards me.

[havingfitz]

Yuri...apologies on the name.

I'm not buddying you..I'm questioning LQs actions...one of which happens to involve you.

Hey LQ...you said you checked Guru's wiki. Why the lie?

[havingfitz]

!$@&! Autocorrect...

Guru = Yuri

[havingfitz]

Yuri...why are you voting baldeagle?

[havingfitz]

Despite the page count it’s still early in the game…but I’m comfortable with my vote on Lickety.  Why?  For those of you not intuitive enough to fensive reaction to the handful of questions/concerns I directed his way.

2 – Posts that make no sense/add nothing to the game….the unnecessary vote/unvote post.

3 – His repeated use of ad hom, misreps, and other logical fallacies in response to me to discredit my play (i.e. weaken suspicions directed at him) while failing to simply provide answers to the questions asked.

4 – His declaration that he (paraphrasing) is a misunderstood thinker who doesn’t like to explain himself.  How convenient if one is scum.

5 – The vote on Yuki because she is easy to get a read on while claiming to not have reads on anyone.  Perhaps because of Yuiki’s experience level which he (LQ) hypocritically is using as a negative towards me.

I told my reason for this and I seriously don't like how dull you are coming across. The reason is because I looked at their wiki and made a gut call that they would be easy to get a read out of  and voted for pressure.

I do not have a wiki atm unless somebody made one for me and didn't tell me

I was not aware that I lied,

More votes on our accidental liar please.

Also...

VOTE: FA

Consider this my first weak read.

If your first weak read is that Slandaar is town....WTF are you supporting a wagon on someone that got up to L-2?  Since you didn't even have a weak read on him?

[havingfitz]

Is anyone going to explain the lq scum reads I still don't see ut

WTF do you think this is?

And since you are a fan of people explaining their reads...how about you explain your read on me?

fitz/FAQ/Sala

[havingfitz]

Why would I lie about something that is so easily verifiable? What is more likely: that I made a mistake and did not believe I was telling a lie at that time, or that I lied on something that could have been checked at any time by anyone to verify it to be true or not? Better yet,

what would I gain out of lying in that case? Feel free to really think that one through.

1) You just gave a reason to think telling an easily discovered lie was more likely to come from town. That's a reason for scum to do it.
2) You were using it to support a false defense towards comments made by me.
3) Why tell the truth as scum when it only makes the job of getting mislynches on town, or defending your actions, all that more difficult?
4) Are you saying you aren't as careful a player when you are town?

[havingfitz]

And is your depression induced v/LA over or not yet ready to begin......

[havingfitz]

HEY BBmolla!

@LQ...your question was...and these are YOUR words..."

Why would I lie

about something that is so easily verifiable?" and "Better yet,

what would I gain out of lying

in that case?"

So the entire premise of your question/s is that you have lied on purpose and asks why you would have done so "in that case"....i.e. on purpose.
Which I provided potential reasons for.

Is there a chance you are town and just weren't being careful in your comments? Making accusations or defending yourself based on inaccurate or misleading information you have concocted? Sure. But IMO that's not a lot better that doing it on purpose as scum. Because that means you are sloppy town that makes shit up to get their point (right or wrong) across and IMO that is a detriment to the rest of town.

Is you being crap town why I am voting you? No...I suspect you for the sum total of the reasons I refer to in the hyperlink above
addressed to and ignored by BBmolla.

If you are today's lynch and turn out to be town...better to be rid of you earlier in the game than when town has less margin for error and you're potentially still around being sloppy and making shit up.

More votes on LQ please.

And as for the v/LA comment I made...I made it because apparently you aren't really on v/LA. A convenient reason to state a v/LA and not actually be v/LA is to have it in your back pocket in case you need an excuse for laying low for awhile.

[havingfitz]

Though probably not v/LA worthy, it's worth noting I will be doing an overnight hike this weekend and I expect I'll have little or no internet access until Monday.

I.e. I'll be very scarce.

[havingfitz]

Will try to get back posting in here tomorrow.

[havingfitz]

Still good on LQ.

Not sure I see the FA wagon. Need to dig into it. The drake one interested me a bit. But less than LQ.

[havingfitz]

Can we just get a few more votes on LQ and move the game along?

[havingfitz]

v/LA until next Tuesday

[havingfitz]

Prod dodge...I'll try to post some content this afternoon.

[havingfitz]

So BBMolla...how is it you have developed a scum read on me?  The only reason you provided D1 was that you didn't think I actually thought LQ was scum.  How do you know what I believe and do not believe?  Then in the same post...you acknowledge that LQ's wiki lie (in hindsight his mistake) was strange and you spend 3 or your next 4 posts drilling LQ on it.  So you seem of see one of the points I'm making on LQ but don't think I actually suspect him.  You also "don't think faq believes anything they post."   Do you rely a lot on mindreading to come up with your bad reads?

Now you say everything about me is opportunistic?  Like what?  And providing a quote of my first post of the game (iirc) with my initial reads and vote on LQ doesn't support opportunism at all.  Please explain.

************************************

Persivul...why Drak over BBMolla?  How does two votes all of D1 constitute "blatant wagon hopping?" 

************************************

@RadiantCow... at what point did I become your "Top scumread" and why?

************************************

I still haven't looked FA_Q over closely but going off of memory...I do not recall seeing anything overly suspect about him.  I will ISO him next since a townread (baldeagle) is so adamant in his FA_Q suspicion.  The rest of the FA_Q  wagon (both D1 and today) doesn't instill the most confidence in me that FA_Q is worth a vote.  Maybe I will feel differently after ISO'ing him.  tbd

[havingfitz]

Persivul...why Drak over BBMolla?  How does two votes all of D1 constitute "blatant wagon hopping?

[havingfitz]

Started this post yesterday morning and never got it posted. So it's a bit behind. Off to a wedding for this weekend so I will be absent (save perhaps some short phone posts) until Sunday night/Monday.

Working back from Slandaar's post 682.

I like Slandaar's post 682. The Drakced quotes he
highlights do seem to point out an inconsistency (i.e. some BS) by Drak. He
said he did not see LQ as scum and then later says he was actually
insinuating that LQ was scum. When he obviously wasn't.

wrt to Percivul's post 675, tunneling is just another word
for being committed on a suspect (or target) and is done by both town and
scum. I suspected LQ. He never did anything to disuade me from suspecting
him. He stayed my main suspect and therefore kept my vote. Simple as that.
I voiced a few early town reads and questioned the FA suspicions, and
expressed some interest in Drak...so I was not entirely quiet in my
considerations towards others. And for you to use your own personal
experience of being tunneled on by scum as defacto proof I am scum is a load
of shit.

wrt to Percivul's post 674, why would town Slandaar be
concerned with who he was "picking on?" Or are you saying to think

wrt to Percivul's post 673, if I was scum with Drak....why
would I be more dangerous?

wrt to Percivul's post 666, it's good to see you are open
minded to the possibility that people might have different opinions towards
each other despite the fact that you seem unabled to grasp the possibility
of town maintaining a preferred suspect (aka tunneling). On that repeated
note of tunneling....what is your definition of tunneling Persivul? I just
want to make sure I'm clear where you are coming from.

wrt to Percivul's post 664, I had not seen your post 652
when I reposted my question to you last night. Being a few sheets to the
wind at a bachelor party at the time...I don't even recall there being a new
page when I reposted it. I just know I did not recall seeing your response.
And HTF does you having a vote on me matter wrt whether I saw your answer?
How would me "acting like you didn't respond" make me scummier given the
fact my reposted question appeared only 4 posts after your answer (which as
mentioned...I had not noticed). What purposeful reason could I have
possibly had? You seem to be making a whole lot out of nothing in your
attempt to justify your suspicions of me. AKA baseless suspicions. Though
I will give you credit for putting forth more effort that BBMolla's
mindreading suspicions and RadiantCow's naked "Top Scum suspect"
proclamation/vote.

wrt to Gypsy's post 659, what do you like about Percivul's
post 653? Do you agree that I was tunneling and do you also find that
suspect? And this despite the fact you are still unsure of him. Nice to
keep your options open.

wrt to Percivul's post 653, none of the attributes you list
of LQ's prevents him from being scum. As I mentioned above....I did provide
other thoughts beyond but no denying my focus was LQ. So what?

wrt to Percivul's post 652, ahhh...the response I failed to notice. So what you are saying is Drak made 2 posts D1....his initial vote (do not recall his reason for voting) which surely could not be considered "hopping," and then his "hop" to the FA_Q wagon. So he made one "hop".....can one change in wagons be considered "blatant wagon hopping?" I say not. Seems like a lot of hyperbole on your part. Similar to your tunneling and missed post accusations/suspicions towards me. As for Slandaars case that you agree with...

You were one of the last on BB
Last off BB
Last on FA

Drak was 4th on BB's wagon. That's dead center. Neither near the beginning or near the last on it.
He was not the last person on the BB wagon. There was someone still on it (idr atm).
I didn't think he was last on FA...I could be wrong but either way...his move to FA who was and still is a popular suspect was no worse that the last two votes on LQ.

So the misrepping assessment of "blatant wagon hopping" is not described well by Slandaar. Could Drak still be scum? Sure. I hate his town/scum comments as mentioned above. But the wagon hopping is a poor accusation. Especially given the more predominant wagon hopping done by more players in this game.

wrt to Drakced's post 651, this is a terrible response. I had a feel you might be town from your reactions to my wagon but having doubts now.

[havingfitz]

@BBMolla...well your mindreading technique sucks because I'm town and my reasoning for suspecting LQ should have been obvious and in no way bs.  Regardless of whether I am town or scum...getting LQ lynched was my genuine objective.  Reasons for which you yourself agreed with in part as evidenced by your interaction with LQ on their Yuri-wiki untruth.

@Slandaar...nothing is ridiculous with what I point out regarding your description of Drak's  voting.  All we have to go on in this game is the words we exchange with others so if saying someone is last on a wagon can't be taken literally...then why say/accuse someone of it?  Why not just say he was last on the BBMolla wagon instead of near the end?  He was more last on BB's wagon than he was FA's.  To say he was near the end of the BBMolla wagon by placing the 4th vote is making more of the vote than necessary.  And as for being the last on the FA wagon...he brought FA to 5 votes.  Then someone (you) got off the FA wagon after which Anna brought FA Back to 5 votes.  Then once again...someone (LQ) got off FA's wagon until Yuri brought it back to 5.  So was Drak last on FA?  Nope....anna and Yuri would fit that description better.  Point being...nothing is suspect in Drak's vote movements.  He was neither first or last on either the BBMolla or the FA wagons.  Are his other comments/actions suspect?  Perhaps.  But not his voting.

So I just finished my only other game and this will take priority now.  I plan on doing an ISO on FA (in conjunction with his main accuser, iirc, Baldeagle...and anna too methinks) to try and understand the FA case.  I do not find being "hostile" scummy (right there alongside "tunneling") and anyone using that as the motivating factor for their vote on FA is using nothing to justify something IMO (right there alongside non-existent "blantant wagon hopping").

[havingfitz]

OK...I just read the three headed ISO of FA, Baldeagle, and annadog. I do not see the case on FA. He comes off a little abrasive and gruff...but that is not a trait reserved for scum. I also think baldeagle's accusations of FA saying hostility is a scum tell are misplaced and clearly addressed and well defended by FA.

I have thought and continue to think baldeagle is town so I see his push on FA as town on town. It's the only thing so far in baldeagle's play that stands out as a concern.

I do not care for anna's game...I don't know if she is scummy or if she just do es not know what to do and is content to follow others around.

I'm also not caring for Yuri's game and strongly feel at least one of them (her or anna) is scum...both for their play in general and for their positions on the LQ wagon.

I need to do some other ISOs. I will say the fact 3/4's of FA's wagon consists of anna, Yuri and Drak makes me feel better about him as well. So of the 3 leading wagons atm the only one I would consider at this point (and pending Drak ISO) is Drak.

[havingfitz]

^ Why do you write my name as lower case?

Not intentional. I've written it both ways. If it bothers you I will try to go with the "A"

Fitz can we lynch Slandaar?

Why are you asking the person you are voting? I haven't looked closely at Slandaar but he hasn't caught my negative attention yet (aside a bit from the description of Drak's voting habits).

Fitz and Anna, thoughts on Slandaar?

See comment above. Why are you voting him?

Wow, that's a shocker.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Annadog

Not as opposed to this vote as I am several of the others placed today.

That was a quick build up on Slandaar for reasons that I don't recall seeing. Anyone on his wagon care to elaborate?

[havingfitz]

Slandaar...if you are town do you think your flippant posting is helping? Helpful town Slandaar would be good to have around. Slandaar we currently have not so much.

[havingfitz]

Funny how a slandaar wagon kicked in the moment he became a townread of mine.

I didn't realize people were paying attention to you.

@RadiantCow... at what point did I become your "Top scumread" and why?

Fitz can we lynch Slandaar?

Why are you asking the person you are voting? I haven't looked closely at Slandaar but he hasn't caught my negative attention yet (aside a bit from the description of Drak's voting habits).

[havingfitz]

^ what do you think of Yuri?

[havingfitz]

In post 647, havingfitz wrote:
@RadiantCow... at what point did I become your "Top scumread" and why?

VOTE: RadiantCow

[havingfitz]

Fitz can we lynch Slandaar?

Why are you asking the person you are voting?

I haven't looked closely at Slandaar but he hasn't caught my negative attention yet (aside a bit from the description of Drak's voting habits).

wtf

[havingfitz]

^ what do you think of Yuri?

Most of her posts are excuses for not posting.

I've seen the same from her in other games.

I don't get why she bothers signing up.

I'd have to read her null. A lynch on her would be a PL for lurking - which I wouldn't be totally against.

agreed

[havingfitz]

Slandaar...what is a motion detector and how does it work?

And while I'm not necessarily in the Slandaar is scum camp...I sure as hell am in the Slandaar is not confirmed town camp

[havingfitz]

In post 647, havingfitz wrote:
@RadiantCow...

at what point did I become your "Top scumread" and why?

VOTE: RadiantCow

For the umpteenth time.

[havingfitz]

Fitz can we lynch Slandaar?

Why are you asking the person you are voting?

I haven't looked closely at Slandaar but he hasn't caught my negative attention yet (aside a bit from the description of Drak's voting habits).

wtf

For the umpteenth time.

[havingfitz]

fitz has taken his blinders off and is looking better.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Slandaar

You looked townier.

In order:

Slandaar
fitz
Gypsy

What changed between the first two quotes and the 3rd? And where is

A

nna on your lists? You've gone back and forth between her and Slandaar a few times today.

[havingfitz]

YurikoJasmine

...who do you suspect?

Do you have any opinions you'd like to share?

Do you have a case on FA_Q you'd like to share?

How are the prospects of improved participation from you looking?

[havingfitz]

In post 647, havingfitz wrote:
@RadiantCow...

at what point did I become your "Top scumread" and why?

VOTE: RadiantCow

For the umpteenth time.

[havingfitz]

Vote count mod?

[havingfitz]

I'm going to continue attempting to lynch scum.

Not by voting me.

[havingfitz]

RC is scum he is trying to whiteknight me.

VOTE: RC

Anyways I don't really think RC is scum. (I ISOed him)

What in RC's ISO changed your mind about him?

Also...

Slandaar...what is a motion detector and how does it work?

[havingfitz]

Anyways I don't really think RC is scum. (I ISOed him)

I didn't ISO him this should be obvious to anyone paying any attention to anything.

How is it obvious that you did not ISO RC? And if you didn't...what changed your mind on him?

N1 target and results?

Salamence there was motion. It was amazing.

So what result did you get from the mod? And why did you select Salamance over people you appeared to suspect more on D1?

[havingfitz]

YurikoJasmine

...who do you suspect?

Do you have any opinions you'd like to share?

Do you have a case on FA_Q you'd like to share?

How are the prospects of improved participation from you looking?

I'll come back to this over the weekend.

Quoting so I don't forget.

You seem to have forgotten.



Observation: The "majority" of the players I have asked questions of in this game have sucked ass at answering them.

[havingfitz]

OK...so no one (BBMolla) happened to mention FA was at L-1.

FA is at L-1!

FA has previously expressed the stance of not wanting to claim so I
guess L-1 means nothing to him...but it would be nice to avoid errant
hammers. I still fail to see the case on FA...but the only person on
his wagon that bothers me is baldeagle since I have been of the
opinion up to now he (baldeagle) is town.

I'm kind of talking myself into Slandaar.

• - I don't like the way he's been playing this game. Too
  flippant and not being forthcoming with his comments/opinions. It's
  hard enough to catch people in lies when they aren't trying to be
  caught. I don't need the added onus of trying to figure out if
  someone not being serious is lying to me.
  
  - I didn't care for his case on Drakced and the RC ISO comments annoy
  me. Don't say it if you don't mean it. And your response that you
  never really thought RC was scum doesn't jive with your D2
  actions/comments towards him (I ISO'D you).
  
  - I don't care for his motion detector claim and result. First off
  it's a weak ass role that is hard to substantiate. It doesn't do town
  a lot of good and it's actions are easily faked. And it's too
  convenient that Slandaar targeted the dead guy. Who didn't appear to
  have much attention from Slandaar D1.
  
  - I believe Slandaar's results would have indicated motion on
  Salamance (the nk) and motion by Salamance (a track). Not with nk and
  track specifics but at least saying there were 2 separate occurances
  of motion. At least that's how I read it from the wiki as I've never
  encountered a motion detector before. So "amazing motion" doesn't cut
  it.
  
  - Unless Salamance slipped some tell of being a PR I can't envision
  him being scum's NK over town-Slandaar. I.e. why is town-Slandaar
  still even here? Maybe town-Slandaar isn't.

Looking at the Slandaar wagon when it was up to 5...I don't have
confident town reads for anyone on it (RC, GG, Drakced, Persivel,
BBMolla)...but I don't really on the FA wagon (Yuri, Anna, Drakced,
baldeagle, BBMolla) either (aside from baldeagle). And the fact
BBMolla is/was on both of them is interesting.

Of the two main wagons I'd prefer an Anna lynch to an FA lynch.

But Slandaar interests me more atm.

VOTE: Slandaar

[havingfitz]

Fitz? What?

@FA....if you think Anna could be scum why not put a bite there since drakced wagon is going no where?

[havingfitz]

Ya, it IS there

I still had you in Drakced. D'oh.

@Persivul...perhaps.

[havingfitz]

Anna wagon is pretty sketch

Who on the Anna wagon adds up to "pretty sketch?"

No claim Anna?

[havingfitz]

Very frustrating game. Other than FA and baldeagle I could envision everyone in this game being scum. Which of course probably means one or both of FA are scum but whatever.

We have a few tiers of players IMO.

Competent underposters: Gypsy, baldeagle, FA
No sense absentee/underposters: Anna, Yuri, Drakced
Wagon hyperhopping overposters: RC and BBMolla
Competant but questionable: Persivul, Slandaar

I really dislike the middle two categories and I tend to find the RC/BBMolla tier types more suspect. The no sense absentee types, while annoying and frustrating, always feel like a PL vote. Whereas the competent categories are harder nuts to crack. Though my
suspicions lean towards the questionables while I tend to lean town on the 1st tier.

If my personal VC is correct...mine, Gypsy's and RC's current votes are not going to amount to anything (especially RC's...wtf???????????). I didn't care for Anna's last few claim related posts (in addition to much of her game content) so if it's between her and FA (and a no lynch)....fmpov it's her.

VOTE: Anna

I hope Anna is scum because I'd like to clear Slandaar in my mind.

Plus...now I really feel good about disliking the FA wagon.

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE:

[havingfitz]

VOTE: RadientCowbells

[havingfitz]

Go on I fucking dare you to try to lynch me.

Well...I am trying. See my vote? #fuckinglosedare

[havingfitz]

Radiant was up to 4 votes at one point and is the 2nd leading wagon atm iirc. If the people who are bailing off the Anna wagon go to RC there is still plenty of time. I'm not voting FA or baldeagle, no lynch or not. Anyone else I would probably favor over a no lynch (aside from Anna and Slandaar who each get another day based on their ~claims).

[havingfitz]

Just lunch FAQ for gods sake

Why? The only reason you've given is "for now".

I would def be up for a quick Yuri policy lynch as well for being worthless and perhaps being scum to boot.

Also this:

YurikoJasmine

...who do you suspect?

Do you have any opinions you'd like to share?

Do you have a case on FA_Q you'd like to share?

How are the prospects of improved participation from you looking?

I'll come back to this over the weekend.

Quoting so I don't forget.

You seem to have forgotten.



Observation: The "majority" of the players I have asked questions of in this game have sucked ass at answering them.

[havingfitz]

In post 647, havingfitz wrote:
@RadiantCow...

at what point did I become your "Top scumread" and why?

VOTE: RadiantCow

For the umpteenth time.

[havingfitz]

3.5 hours till deadline. I prefer Drakced to FA or no lynch.

VOTE: Drakced

[havingfitz]

Drak and FA both L-2.

[havingfitz]

If it winds up being FA I hope I'm wrong. If it is him and he is town....his entire wagon deserves rope. Don't recall a single valid reason for the wagon being given.

And please replace out Yuri. You contribute nothing.

[havingfitz]

I've stayed why.

[havingfitz]

Stated

[havingfitz]

Just back in grid from hiking trip. Post later.

[havingfitz]

Anna gets a pass for claim (or until I've had a chance to peruse longer).

Based on the FA push and the weak Yuri vote.

VOTE: baldeagle

Also up for BBmolla and tbd lynches.

[havingfitz]

Welcome Metal Sonic, thanks for replacing in.  Your predecessor was completely worthless.  Which makes your desire to play with her a bit disturbing.
 
So...other than the fact they were mislynches, why the hyperbole about the 2 lynches being terrible?  Is an unclaimed neighbor getting lynched really a gamechanger?  I agree FA was a terrible fcuking lynch and his wagon bears review...but LQ was not a terrible lynch.  A terrible player maybe but not a terrible lynch.
 
You keep saying you haven't read up.  How about you read up since you were kind enough to join the game.  Your opinion will have more credence once you have actually read the game.
 
I do not think your lazyman VCA is enough to warrant a vote on anyone.  Yes GG and Anna were on both mislynches...but so were you.  So for anyone not named GG, Anna, or Metal Sonic...you are all 3 equally suspect for your votes.  VCA aside...why is Anna "more scummy" than anyone else in the game?
 
wrt Post 1218 I would ask you...what is the utility of a neighbor or a motion detector?  They both seem pretty useless.
 
How does someone flip remotely confirmed town?  If they flip town it's not remotely confirmed....it's completely confirmed.
 
You keep saying you haven't read the game.  Could you do your new game-mates the courtesy of reading up?
 
How do you like baldeagle's casual L-2 vote on you?
 
*********************************************
 
I'm not a big fan of Anna and I do think her claim is still questionable.  Just not sure I want to support her wagon or not today.
 
What I do not like about Anna's claim:  she claimed Stalker and not Voyuer but has referred to both; she has conveniently "stalked/voyuered" both NKs; and her claim gives town 4 ~power roles.  Even though they are weakass power roles I still think 4 is pushing it.  But they are weak and we do not know what PRs scum have so her claim could be legit.
 
Since a mislynch today would result in MYLO tomorrow I think

a mass claim is in order.

  A claim tomorrow following a potential mislynch would be of no value.  And frankly...with 4 roles already claimed/flipped I can't imagine there being any others...but just to be sure. 

I'm VT

[havingfitz]

That's L-1.

Can we at least finish the claims because there won't be any tomorrow. I don't even care if Anna is today's lynch as having her around tomorrow would be a liabilty (i.e. an urge to lynch but pending today's flip...potentially a LYLO situation).

[havingfitz]

Fitz isn't scum regardless of what Anna is. You and BBMolla's reads have sucked ass this game. At least one of you is scum

[havingfitz]

We need to claim. No way in he'll there are 5 town PRs.

[havingfitz]

ffs......so between Anna BBMoll and Drakced we have 4-6 town PRs. I do not see that being the case. If Drakced claimed as scum I'm good with giving him the win. Cause with 5 claims already out there I do not think scum...under no pressure atm....bothers to claim a 6th.

I do not like how BBMolla left his claim anonymous. Whatever the fcuk your PR is it sure has hell hasn't done town any good yet so how is revealing it going to help scum? Especially when something that would appear to actually be useful like a Rolestopper (WTF is that...a RB?) is in the game.

Here's where we are atm:

Motion Detector

-

Slandaar

Town

-

FA_Q2

2-shot Tracker

-

Salamence20

Town Neighbor

-

LicketyQuickety

`````````````````````````````

Stalker/Voyuer

- Annadog

Anonymous

- Bbmolla

Rolestopper

- Drakced

Town

- havingfitz

???

- RadiantCowbells

???

- Persivul

???

- Huntress

???

- Gypsy Girl

???

- Metal Sonic

I can not recall ever playing in a normal game of 13 that had 6 town PRs.

Can we get Anna a few unvotes to be away from L-1. It seems a bit hasty to end the day so quickly...especially with 2 new players. If after the smoke clears (and claims finish) it winds up still being Anna....fine. But if we do not hit scum today any claims tomorrow won't mean shyte.

Speaking if shyte...

please give details on your PR BBMolla

. Like I said above...your role hasn't done anything helpful to this point (that anyone is aware of at least) and a Rolestopper probably trumps whatever you have.

[havingfitz]

Also fitz your anger reads fake as fuck still.

There is no anger so I guess it would look fake.

[havingfitz]

Why did you say that Doctor was useless?

I said whatever his claim was didn't matter because it had been useless to town so far. I.e. not helped town in any perceivable way.

[havingfitz]

Fitz how do you honestly think all the power role claims are town

Even though they are weakass power roles I still think 4 is pushing it.

No way in he'll there are 5 town PRs.

I can not recall ever playing in a normal game of 13 that had 6 town PRs.

???

[havingfitz]

Huntress (2) - havingfitz, RadiantCowbells

so why you voting Huntress

Where are we going with this? Unlike several players in this game (ex. BBmolla and RadientCowbells) I typically give my reasons for voting. So to answer your question....go look at the vote.

I think there is at least one scum pr fakeclaim and I think there are scum vt claims. Not sure odds favor one over the other. Though I do tend to believe the Drakced claim. So an Anna or BBmolla vote is probably imminent.

[havingfitz]

Though I do tend to believe the Drakced claim.

Though shit like this makes me believe less...

Fitz how do you honestly think all the power role claims are town

But why would a Scum claim PR when they could easily just claim VT?

[havingfitz]

Metal....have you read up yet? Any suspicions not based entirely on your lazy VCA? I agree that if you are town...Anna voting you would be a push for three straight mislynches and would be cause for suspicion by you.

When Anna first claimed I thought the mod might have had some weird flavor that had all the variations of motion (tracking, watching, detecting..etc) but then to throw in a doc and a rolestopper to go along with the cop seems to throw that idea out the window imo. Wouldn't be surprised if there was a ninja or GF type scum role in the game but that kind of speculation is pointless. But I did it anyway so oh well.

While I have had a change of heart on the baldeagle/huntress role I'm also pretty sure BBMolla or Anna are fake-claiming. Who did you protect BBmolla?

[havingfitz]

Also proves to me you aren't even reading my posts.

Proves I don't have total recall. Not that you have many posts worth reading though.

[havingfitz]

Welcome Huntress and Metal Sonic!
The same with Bald Eagle, I don't see the reasoning behind the huntress wagon.
Not really feeling a molla or anna lynch.
Im not exactly liking Sonic...

So is Drakced scum or do you think there are 6 town PRs?

[havingfitz]

How would you know, you haven't read them

I've read every word of the game but remembered few. It's like when you remember where you were when something notable happened (like Princess Di dying...or the World Trade Centers getting hit by planes)...those are the types of comments/posts I remember. Hence all I remembered from you is that you claimed doc

Cancel that you've been scum in every game we've played LOL

If this were a true statement it would only increase the odds that I were town in this game and you were scum.

I'm lynching

her

then Fitz

Is that why we have both been voting the same player most of this day? You really do suck at this game. Suck meaning consistently moving vote around and not providing rationale (at least wrt me). Maybe you should replace out if the whinging & sucking is going to continue.

this game really does sap the life of of me

Really? Less than a week in the game which you haven't even read up through yet (I assume) and your sapped? ffs Nice replace in

I am the only one who claimed the day before and I am able to prove BBmollia's claim by watching the person they heal.

Town can absorb one more mislynch. Pretend you and BBMolla are both scum (which I do not think is the case). If either of you aren't the day's lynch and it turns out we mislynch today....then you ~confirm BBMolla tomorrow and town only has a 20% chance of hitting scum tomorrow.

Can the three people not voting anyone please vote someone.

I can't flipping make up my mind between BBMolla and Anna but I do not believe they are both town.

[havingfitz]

We're still waiting for claims from Gypsy Girl and RadiantCowbells to complete the massclaim.

I'm good with calling them both VT and if either of them claims something other tomorrow (assuming still here) their claim is ignored and they become a lynch frontrunner. Cause 7/8 town prs claimed would be even stupider.

[havingfitz]

I was just coming in to switch my vote on BBMolla. I think a doc and a role-stopper is too much protection against scum. Both would essentially prevent a scum kill. And I do not really care for the hammer. Seemed a bit "had to do it" "no reason not to" when you didn't have to and there was reason to hold off.

[havingfitz]

Its the first RL day of this day. All scum needs is one vote on town to end the game. Can we not put any votes down just yet? Let's give people time to process a bit. I will chime in more tomorrow assuming some townie has placed a vote on some townie and opened the door for scum.

[havingfitz]

BBMolla...I am not scum. iirc you have yet to present any case to support your assertion that I am scum. And any attempt you would make to support your assertion would of course be hampered by the fact, as I said, that I am not scum.

Drakced...who did you use your rolestop on last night?

wrt my post 1409...EBWOP...."some townie has placed a vote" should have read "some townie has NOT placed a vote."

Actually...going back over the tail end of yesterday...I note BBMolla's post 1206 where he proclaims anna town based on her claim only to join her wagon 2 days later. THEN in post 1285 BBMolla says Anna's claim makes her likely scum. WTF? Also states Drakced's claim implicates him as scum (because it could not exist with BBMolla's) yet he does not vote
Drakced (who would be more of a sure thing from BBMolla's pov as a ~CC to BBMolla).

So late in D3 in post 1329 BBMolla suspects anna sonic/Titus & fitz
Today BBmolla suspects fitz drak huntress.

So BBMolla...why wasn't Drak in your post 1329 scumlist and why did Huntress replace Titus?

@Huntress wrt post 1404...you are right...there was no reason for me to criticize you for not holding off when by that point I had given up on holding off as well. I think my 1361 comments were born of frustration at coming in to try and steer things towards BBmolla only to find the day was over.

I am leaning town on Radient (gut?) and Drakced. I think town is screwed this game but the game isn't over yet. But we need to get scum today.

I'm also very slightly leaning town on Titus (in large part because I typically think multiple replace outs from the same player slot are more likely to be in a town slot). This despite the fact that slot has been on every mislynch.

So by POE that leaves me with scum leans on BBMolla, Huntress and GG. In that order. I can't see both Drak and BBMolla power roles existing in the game and I think Drakced's is more believable.

IMO they should be voting each other with the rest of us picking between them

(ie. town voting BBMolla).

I'll hold off a bit on putting a vote down on BBMolla only because the day just started and I want to see what everyone else has to say but consider me firmly in the BBMolla vote mindset.

@Radient…a lack of logical reasoning doesn't make someone scum. If you think BBMolla is more suspect than Drakced...vote BBMolla.

@Drakced....WTF are you doing? Do you really think there are 6 town PRs in this game? I'm not sure I've even been in a game (13 or less players) with that many. From your POV you should be firmly entrenched on BBMolla. If BBMolla is in fact scum and you survive to tomorrow...then you can try for the less sure suspects (from your POV). But today you need to be on BBMolla.

[havingfitz]

fitz vote me bro let's see what happens

No rush.

I sorta think fitz is town, but

that doesn't mean he's on my team

or anything.

What does this even mean?

Molla, huntress, drakced are town.

So you think there are 7 town PRs? You believe both BBMolla AND Drakced are telling the truth? If so...why haven't you voted one of your three scum suspects?

So GG, Fitz, Drakced or maybe huntress in one of those spots.

I am not scum so feel free to adjust your consistently bad read on me accordingly

[havingfitz]

Drakced....I think I've said I lean towards you being town. Though no slam dunk.

RC...how does the Huntress vote confirm her as scum?

Still of the mind one of Drakced and BB are fakeclaiming scum. If next vote is on town (Drakced or BB) the end will be quick. Current wagon makeups not too telling.

[havingfitz]

It is possible for there to be 7 PR's, but it's rare.

What are you basing this on? (and actually we have 6 claimed/confirmed prs)

The reason that it's unlikely is because Doctor and Rolestopper are almost the same

Aren't the tracker, motion detector and voyeur all similar roles?

I'm saying I want to be the hammer unless anyone has a problem with that?

Why do you want to hammer? If you are scum that works out well for you. Yes?

@Fitz, Why are you saying no rush for your vote and yet pressuring GG to vote?

Not pressuring...just asking. She was stating she had three scum suspects. With presumably three scum in the game...that should instill enough confidence to vote one of them. But she didn't...and still hasn't.

[havingfitz]

Going to sleep now so I'm unvoting as I won't be around to keep an eye on this.

Unvote

Huntress, I assume you placed a vogte on who you thought was scum...so what do you need to keep an eye on?

[havingfitz]

The fact that we have had two wagons at L-2 for a decent amount of today should give us some useful (maybe?) information to work with. The following
thoughts are obv fmpov. I am not including myself in this analysis because 1) I already know my alignment [town] and 2) I am not needed to get a lynch
(unless we wind up with two L-1 wagons).

Drakced has been at L-2 for a good portion of the day with BB and RC voting him.

If Drak is town:

- If by some miracle Drak and BBMolla were both town...scum (3/4 of RC, Huntress, Titus, GG) would have had plenty of time to end the game.
- Therefore...logic would seem to indicate

town Drakced = scum BBMolla.

- If RC is town...(2/3 of Huntress, Titus, GG) have had plenty of time to end the game.
- Therefore...logic would seem to indicate

town Drakced = scum RC

as town Drak + town RC would most likely have already resulted in end of game.

If BBMolla is town:

- If by some miracle BBMolla and Drakced were both town...scum (3/4 of RC, Huntress, Titus, GG) would have had plenty of time to end the game.
- Therefore...logic would seem to indicate

town BBMolla = scum Drakced.

- Although not at L-2 as long as the Drakced L-2 wagon...if Huntress is town...(2/3 of RC, Titus, GG) have had plenty of time to end the game.
- Therefore...logic would seem to indicate

town BBMolla = scum Huntress

as town BBMolla + town Huntress would most likely have already
resulted in end of game.
- I do not think Titus and GG can both be scum. If they were both scum...then one of Drak/BB would by default be town...and Titus and GG were
online at the same time while both wagons were L-2.

If Drak is scum:

- Though not with 100% certainty...I believe scum Drak = town BBMolla. I think them both being scum would have been an unnecessary gambit that while
probably ensuring a scum win, would have required a level of deception I'm not prepared to bestow on either of them.

If BBMolla is scum:

- Though not with 100% certainty...I believe scum BBMolla = town Drakced. I think them both being scum would have been an unnecessary gambit that while
probably ensuring a scum win due to town cred earned, would have required a level of deception I'm not prepared to bestow on either of them.

tl;dr:

- I think there is 100% chance of BBMolla OR Drakced being scum.
- There is a remote chance that BBMolla AND Drakced are scum
- I think if Drakced is town...both BBMolla AND RC are scum.
- I think if BBMolla is town...both Drakced AND Huntress are scum.
- Titus AND GG are NOT both scum...though they could both be town.

Based on the assumptions above...I looked at all the different scumteam combinations and eliminated combos that I did not see as feasible (i.e. me
as scum [this is from my POV remember], combos that did not include at least one of BB or Drak, and combos that had both Titus and GG. Etc.) and here
they are:

Bbmolla...Huntress..........RadiantCowbells

Bbmolla...Titus.............RadiantCowbells
Bbmolla...Gypsy Girl........RadiantCowbells
Drakced...Gypsy Girl........Huntress
Drakced...Titus.............Huntress
Drakced...RadiantCowbells...Huntress

Bbmolla...Drakced...........Gypsy Girl
Bbmolla...Drakced...........Titus

Bbmolla...Drakced...........Huntress

Bbmolla...Drakced...........RadiantCowbells

On further consideration...I do not think BB and RC would bus their partner Drak, and I do not think Drak and Huntress would bus their partner BB...so
that elimminates 2 more combos.

Based on the D2 RC wagon at it is unlikely both of GG and BB are partners with RC (when he was brought to L-2).

I'll try to whittle more away. I might be leaning towards the Drak combos as they seem to outnumber the BB ones...combined with my earlier suspicions
towards the baldeagle/Huntress slot and my transition to a town lean on RC.

More later...........................

[havingfitz]

^youre so god damn scum what a wall of nothing.

So I do an analysis that starts to make me lean towards you being town and this is what you come up with? You haven't done shit this entire game except post padding and pushing bad reads. Hence my hesitance to not consider you scum. Seriously...what have you got right this game?

Bbmolla...Gypsy Girl........RadiantCowbells
Drakced...Gypsy Girl........Huntress

^ So you scum GG?

[havingfitz]

^ Titus and GG were on in pretty close proximity...hence my thinking they could not both be scum together. Individually maybe but not both.

[havingfitz]

So what now Huntress?

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Drakced

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE: T

[havingfitz]

I'm not 100% sure BBmolla is Scum and there is a small chace he could be telling the truth I guess.

There is no way you are both town. If you are town Drak...BBMolla is 100% scum. Or else this game has the most incompetant scum team ever. So no....one of you is scum.

Where the fcuk is everyone? Less than 5 days left. We need some opinions...content...scum hunting in here. Especially from Titus and GG.

[havingfitz]

I'm ready to just flip a coin between BB and Drak. I probably like RC a bit more for town than I do Huntress which implicates Drak more than BB. And just taking their claims into consideration...I kind of like Drak's claim more than BB's.

Titus was online with in a few minutes of me unvoting Drak so she could have potentially been online while Drak was at L-1 which would mean they were the same alignment IF we think Titus had the chance to hammer. uuuuuugh.

Less than 5 days left. Where are your heads at people? Top suspect? 2nd and 3rds if you have them...

[havingfitz]

And Fitz, if you're town, now is not the time to OMGUS.

What are you referring to?

[havingfitz]

Titus...you aren't confirmed town or anything IMO so don't flatter yourself too much.

I haven't voted yet because I can't get off my fence...yet.

[havingfitz]

a Psudeo vote at least.

Who do you plan on voting? And why?

[havingfitz]

Scum. Because they are scum

How does this help town? If you have no strong feelings on who is scum you shouldn't be lobbying for a hammer vote. If you do have strong feelings on who is scum you should be sharing the who and why to potentially help other town in their decision process.

they would do that.

Who/what are you referring to with "they?"

[havingfitz]

zzzzzzzz...........c'mon mod. Post the facts.

[havingfitz]

Who's scum RC and why?

[havingfitz]

didn't you read my last?

All but the part where you name your scum team.

[havingfitz]

The fact that we have had two wagons at L-2 for a decent amount of today should give us some useful (maybe?) information to work with. The following
thoughts are obv fmpov. I am not including myself in this analysis because 1) I already know my alignment [town] and 2) I am not needed to get a lynch
(unless we wind up with two L-1 wagons).

Drakced has been at L-2 for a good portion of the day with BB and RC voting him.

If BBMolla is town:

- If by some miracle BBMolla and Drakced were both town...scum (3/4 of RC, Huntress, Titus, GG) would have had plenty of time to end the game.
- Therefore...logic would seem to indicate

town BBMolla = scum Drakced.

- Although not at L-2 as long as the Drakced L-2 wagon...if Huntress is town...(2/3 of RC, Titus, GG) have had plenty of time to end the game.
- Therefore...logic would seem to indicate

town BBMolla = scum Huntress

as town BBMolla + town Huntress would most likely have already
resulted in end of game.
- I do not think Titus and GG can both be scum. If they were both scum...then one of Drak/BB would by default be town...and Titus and GG were
online at the same time while both wagons were L-2.

If Drak is scum:

- Though not with 100% certainty...I believe scum Drak = town BBMolla. I think them both being scum would have been an unnecessary gambit that while
probably ensuring a scum win, would have required a level of deception I'm not prepared to bestow on either of them.

tl;dr:

- I think there is 100% chance of BBMolla OR Drakced being scum.

- There is a remote chance that BBMolla AND Drakced are scum

- I think if Drakced is town...both BBMolla AND RC are scum.

- I think if BBMolla is town...both Drakced AND Huntress are scum.
- Titus AND GG are NOT both scum...though they could both be town.

Based on the assumptions above...I looked at all the different scumteam combinations and eliminated combos that I did not see as feasible (i.e. me
as scum [this is from my POV remember], combos that did not include at least one of BB or Drak, and combos that had both Titus and GG. Etc.) and here
they are:

Bbmolla...Huntress..........RadiantCowbells

Bbmolla...Titus.............RadiantCowbells
Bbmolla...Gypsy Girl........RadiantCowbells

Drakced...Gypsy Girl........Huntress
Drakced...Titus.............Huntress
Drakced...RadiantCowbells...Huntress

Bbmolla...Drakced...........Gypsy Girl
Bbmolla...Drakced...........Titus

Bbmolla...Drakced...........Huntress

Bbmolla...Drakced...........RadiantCowbells

On further consideration...I do not think BB and RC would bus their partner Drak, and I do not think Drak and Huntress would bus their partner BB...so
that eliminates 2 more combos.

Based on the D2 RC wagon at it is unlikely both of GG and BB are partners with RC (when he was brought to L-2).

I'll try to whittle more away. I might be leaning towards the Drak combos as they seem to outnumber the BB ones...combined with my earlier suspicions
towards the baldeagle/Huntress slot and my transition to a town lean on RC.

More later...........................

Intent to vote Huntress.

p-edit...that's what I was talking about RC. I have since seen it. My bad.

[havingfitz]

That was of no value Titus. Was there any associated analysis?

[havingfitz]

Like I said, I have a follower guilty on her.

Could you elaborate on this? "follower guilty?"

[havingfitz]

I'm thinking it's Fitz for last scum because it's pretty clear that he knows that I don't in fact have a guilty on Huntress.

Um...I don't know. That's why I asked you to clarify. I was pretty sure you hadn't claimed follower and I didn't recall anything about that. How is you lying and confusing people indicative of the confused's alignment?

[havingfitz]

Ugh the pings on Fitz again.

Why

[havingfitz]

Do you understand what the words are saying?

[havingfitz]

RC and fitz why do you think that huntress is scum? ( besides your post #1628 Fitz)

No besides. Because of content in post 1628.

Why did you vote Titus and Drakced and lobby for voted on me yesterday?

In a partial ISO on you (last ~20 posts) I find little or no thought/opinion/effort. Who do YOU think is scum and why?

Same question to everyone.

Mine is in my 1628 post with a dash of gut. Leaning town on RC and believe 2 of Huntress...GG and Titus are scum.

Combined with 1628...I do not think both scum would bus Drakced when there was a decent chance BBmolla could have been the lynch for a scum win.

I'll vote after people answer my question.

[havingfitz]

So what was awkward about my post and what made it a scummy?

And can you answer my question regarding who you suspect and why?

[havingfitz]

@Fitz, It's the distance you put between yourself and "the confused".

I was talking about me. There was no distance.

Most would say what RC was doing had nothing to do with "my alignment".

He was talking to me. My response was from me about me. You had nothing to do with the RC comment I was responding to. WTF are you talking about?

I am fine with letting things pay out. Given I am obvious town after yesterday, the proper response is to chill.

How do you figure you are obvious town? Because I do not think anyone is confirmed town. The only alignment I am certain of is mine. And why can't you discuss who you suspect and why?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's where I stand in addition to my post 1628:

- I'm leaning on RC being town.
- I'm resigned/convinced/leaning on the opinion that Huntress is scum
- Titus and GG are basically a coin flip. Neither is providing much opinion or content (or value) and if one of them is in fact town...they are doing the rest of town a disservice with their weak play/participation. I would lump Huntress in that description to but POE has placed her on my scum list. I will say Titus post more than the others but the posts are of little or no value IMO. So all in all...a very frustrating trio and I hope I am right in thinking 2 of them are scum.

[havingfitz]

I just read end of yesterday over again. I see the point wrt Titus.

Huntress and GG or well played other.

vote Huntress

Will change to GG on request.

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE: for a bit.
Not sure why one or both RC and Titus didn't vote Huntress.

[havingfitz]

I'm not enjoying the RC Titus exchange over the last half page or so. I expected Huntress to go fairly quickly.

@RC...why didn't you vote Huntress when you next posted? Why just an "lol?" I get that Titus didn't because of the stupid hammer obsession....which is annoying as fcuk btw. But why didn't you vote Huntress?

I need to grab the VCs, color them, and then

do the analysis.

What happened to this?

As for your appeal Huntress.....this trio of post below have me leery to it:

If you're town please unvote before scum get their act together because that will be game over if they do.

I'm town! Titus (or anyone else), please don't hammer, or the loss in on you. If you lynch me, its game over.

Drakced,

mafia rolestopper

, was lynched day 4.[/color]

What are your thoughts on GG Huntress?

[havingfitz]

v/LA (should have some phone access) until Wednesday.

[havingfitz]

Fitz, you've been around since 2009 and yet the best argument I can make for your play being town is that you have absolutely no idea how to play mafia.

Why is that?

Because you don't know wtf you are talking about

R if you want to help, you can quote all the mod posts, color them, and stick them behind a spoiler.

Why are you asking other people to do the VCA work you said you were going to do a day or two ago? If you rely on VCA so much...do one.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OK...back from v/LA. Not a lot of time to post tonight so 1 quick observation. I am town.

If Huntress = town...Titus, GG are not both scum (i.e. RC is scum) and scum is just waiting for another townie to hop on the wagon.
If Huntress = scum...RC probably isn't scum and therefore Titus and GG aren't both scum.

So Huntress AND RC aren't scum together...and Titus AND GG aren't scum together.

Still leaning towards the Huntress vote but will look over my whatever my previous suspicions were tomorrow before doing anything.

[havingfitz]

RC...did you even read my last post? Specifically the part where I said you and Huntress probably weren't scum together? How are you 100% town again?

Titus...all I know is you said something about doing some vca a day or two ago and you haven't done shit. Though that's par for most of the players in this game.

[havingfitz]

now towns votes are locked.

What does this mean?

[havingfitz]

v/la until tomorrow night.

[havingfitz]

Quick vla post.

RC....quit being such a whiney bitch. If you and Titus are town WTF didn't you vote Hundreds when I had a vote sitting on her for 1w hours? Instead all you post is lol and Titus something like this should be interesting. This day/game could have been over a week ago.

[havingfitz]

EBWOP: Huntress and 12 hours.

[havingfitz]

You mean Sunday Aug 16th or D? in this game?

[havingfitz]

I will be out most of the day again. Vote please people.

How many games have you employed this asinine philosophy?
Have you done it both as scum and town (links?)
Who are you willing to vote today?

[havingfitz]

Wanting to hammer isn't important. It's wanting to vote someone period. Did Titus express interest in voting RC?

[havingfitz]

You think scum are RC and GG? And RC is bussing his last partner...

[havingfitz]

Your thoughts?

My thoughts are that this:

I want scum to help me clear y'all by making a two v two.

Makes zero sense. How does a 2 v 2 clear y'all.

[havingfitz]

OK...I'm not so much concerned with that now. I did some looking over the current wagons along with my previous analysis and I do not see how you can be scum. My current position on Titus is that he is nearly confirmed town.

FMPOV there are 3 possible options for a scum team. RC and Huntress. Huntress and GG and RC and GG. And I think I had ruled out RC and GG earlier which would put Huntress at confirmed scum.

I will vote Huntress before deadline or if required for a lynch...will consider switching to RC or GG. Would like to hear your thoughts on those two Titus. I think I'm leaning for GG as the second scum. That's all for tonight.

If either Huntress or RC are town and pop in here over night...please do not vote Titus.

[havingfitz]

Explain why not Huntress before I vote GG (in the morning)

[havingfitz]

Titus...read my Post 1516 with regard to Huntress.  Particularly in the If BBMolla is town section.  I think Huntress should have been the vote today.  Whichever one of us is alive tomorrow could have sorted out who is scum between RC and GG.  Still looking for why I didn't think RC and GG could be scum together.  I know I did not include any combos of RC-GG-Drak as a viable scum team but I can't recall why.

If you are so convinced Huntress is town (not sure I understand any logic on this), this would mean you either think both GG and RC are scum....which I do not think is the case, or that I am in the mix (which fyi I am not scum). 

Trouble is...with deadline fast approaching I'm not sure a move to Huntress is even an option at this point.  RC is being a tool and is done for the day so the only two options appear to be RC or GG since they each already have a vote on them.  I will say the fact you have survived through the night without getting hammered makes me feel better about GG being scum.  As I think you (Titus) are town...if GG by some miracle was town, scum could have ended it by now.  Though what is scum's incentive to push any lynch considering a no lynch is just as beneficial to them.

Going to look a little closer at GG and Huntress.  Am around all morning and will def place vote within next 2-3 hours.

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Gypsy Girl

If GG flips scum...Huntress tomorrow.
If GG flips town...Fcuk.

[havingfitz]

This game was a very frustrating loss. I think town (Titus) handed it to a scum team that underwhelmed. But congratulations to scum on the win nonetheless.

RC...you aren't as good as you think you are and if you weren't so abrasive maybe Titus would have given her losing hammer more thought. And your checking out of the game the last 2 days did not help matters either. Town wins as a town...not as a single person so you should have continued to contribute and try to sway Titus' opinion. And your hissy following the game reflects more poorly on you than Titus' losing decision does on her.

Titus...you were very disappointing this game. I hadn't played in several months but I seemed to have a better recollection of you than what I saw in this game. I do not recall you contributing very much and your continued stance that you would only hammer was very annoying and did not make you any more town. And aside from the end when I had resolved in my mind that you really did have to be town....you continually saying you were obv/confirmed town was useless/annoying as well. If anything the hammer shit and town declarations gave reason to suspect you. And while VCA's can come in handy sometimes...saying you were going to do one and then never following through might have contributed to your willingness to mislynch RC. If a VCA had been done you could have clearly seen that RC was less suspect than Huntress. From the time Huntress entered the game she never once voted scum whereas RC was on scum the majority of the last 2 days. If you had read my points against Huntress the last two days maybe you would have thought differently as well.

tl:dr; Titus blew it big time IMO and RC's aggression/withdrawal only helped push her to a terrible decision.

10 weeks of play all for naught (for town). %^&*(!

Thanks Mod for managing the game