Mini 1699 - #swag wars: THE empire strikes back (swaggedout)

fferyllt · Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:39 pm

In post 1117, Soft-spoken wrote:
In post 1105, fferyllt wrote:the thing is, I don't think boonskiies is going to catch up.

he doesnt need to catch up to interact

That's true, but he's not really interacting either.

fferyllt · Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:40 pm

S-S you implied you want to vote implosion I think.

What are your reasons?

fferyllt · Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:30 pm

I'd forgotten about your vote, but what I remember is a sense that you have gone from suspecting implosion to backing off a little, and talking with him like you're talking to someone you want to work with. Your comment about Pie's vote gave me the impression you are suspecting him more than your recent comments suggest.

fferyllt · Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:41 pm

regarding your theory discussion about towntells genuine thought process I read it with interest but not really much sense of it being alignment indicative for either of you. From a meta perspecitve that kind of talk helps me better grasp how you approach games, but I don't play at that level of analysis. I wish I did.

fferyllt · Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:12 am

I agree (somewhat) with not entirely dismissing someone's thoughts.

Somtimes I talk with a scumread as though they're town to see what sorts of echoes come back.

fferyllt · Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:44 pm

and flips scum?

fferyllt · Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:45 pm

notsci I would like for you to stop moaning about how lost and unengaged you are and do something about it.

fferyllt · Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:46 pm

Vinkah. Show up and vote me or something.

fferyllt · Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:47 pm

And Nacho. Nacho. Ive been waiting for days and days and days to see what your thoughts about this game are, and see if I agree with them. :/

fferyllt · Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:48 pm

Ss If I were scum you would have no doubt whatsoever about it.

fferyllt · Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:53 pm

Nacho are you still here?

fferyllt · Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:02 pm

Are you caught up? I want to talk about the relative worthiness of some wagons.

fferyllt · Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:29 pm

Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1211, fferyllt wrote:Are you caught up? I want to talk about the relative worthiness of some wagons.

Not completely, but I have a good enough idea of where my reads stand to be useful.

implosion seems to have no intent or conviction behind his votes. could be a style thing, but over time it feels like he's always right there when a momentum change wafts through the air.

I had trouble reading boonskiies in the whedon game but eventually it was a sense of transparency and sincerity that came through in his posts. Maybe it's too soon, but I am not getting anything like that from his posts so far.

Notsci seems so detached that he's not taking in the data. Like his concern about SS isn't following the moving target. You could be concerned that after the forest fire game SS is ticking off the check boxes of my meta concerns from that game, which is something I wouldn't expect him to pick up on, but the fact that his awkward entrance was a tactic and he followed through on the tactic is surface data in the thread now. I'm less concerned about him because he really does seem that detached, but I dunno.

how do you feel about RC today?

fferyllt · Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:40 pm

In post 1216, Soft-spoken wrote:ffer, if i were scum, i would be balancing a fine line of meeting your meta expectations and throwing curveballs so that you didnt suspect i was cowtowing to your meta expectations. i would also be hard pushing implo with no mercy atm. im glad you came to the conclusion that im probably town but your reason baffles me. "he really does seem that detached" wdo i seem detached from the game? what other people think about me? what is it about me that is detached.

notsci seems detached, not you. Too many pronouns in that paragraph.

The meeting meta expectations/throwing curveballs is what I've been looking for in your play.

fferyllt · Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:50 pm

It would be a fine line, how much to push me for not engaging with your push changes, or in general how to engage me.

Your trajectory in that regard has more substance and basis than what Vinkah has done.

I don't think that it's alignment indicative coming from you, any more than I think calling it town confusion is alignment indicative from nacho.

fferyllt · Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:59 pm

I"m not sure. he's had real life time constraints during this game. My impressions from playing with scum and town RC is that he really up on the game's pulse as scum, especially when things are going well for his team.

p-edit I'm going to probably change my vote after I finish talking with Nacho.

fferyllt · Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:41 pm

fferyllt · Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:28 pm

Doing that would telegraph some stuff that would make it harder to refine reads on a couple of players. I feel like the last 48 hours or so has given me more to work with than I've had all game so far. I want to make the most of that.

fferyllt · Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:58 pm

I'm not going to wait very long and I will tell you then what my gut vote would be right now even if I change my mind with more data.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:12 am

yes.

you are not getting lynched today btw. I will raise bloody hell about it.

notsci, take note.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:10 am

I'm here now.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:03 am

Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1215, fferyllt wrote:how do you feel about RC today?

I still feel good about RC. I don't really think that his posts so far have been meeting meta expectations and this game looks nothing like how I expect his scum game to look.

I didn't like his 1156, but it doesn't look like what I'd expect scum-him to post in that circumstance.

his going after SS (because layla) bothered me.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:20 am

he joined the wagon, though. Which is considerably more than not bothered by it. he joined the wagon at what I thought was its peak, maybe even a tad after the momentum started to swing back. But, it was when he was around to post, so.

how do you feel about boonskiies?

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:56 am

Vinkah worries me a little, but I know his work schedule impacts his available time.

The unresolved paranoia about me bothers me. Late day 1 when he buttonholed me about my lack of direction and conviction felt pretty town, especially given I wasn't getting any heat to speak of about it from others. The subtext there, though is that if several players in the game don't find it strange, then either it's not strange or I'm scum with some of those plaeyrs, or I'm having an off game and am being zoomed by them. he hasn't gone past the initial "ffery's bothering the hell out of me".

Today, he keeps that concern alive, but isn't pushng it. he put a vote down on S-S in the middle - maybe late middle - reactions to S-S' entrance, which again, due to his work schedule, could be an artifact of when he's on the scene.

So, I have concerns, and maybe those concerns should be stronger. But his basic issue with me is accurate inasmuch as here it is near the end of day 2 and I'm only just starting to cut the jib.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:00 am

VOTE: implosion

note to Soft-spoken. This is where my gut was last night.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:46 am

how many votes is that? 5 I think.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:55 am

sounds right.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:18 pm

how do you feel about his recent posts?

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:28 pm

Unvote

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:29 pm

ugh. I'm not sure where I want to go.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:32 pm

Why did you wait until day 2 to crumb?

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:33 pm

I don't like the timing of your post RC.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:34 pm

I mean he posts right after implosion claims. which makes me think he's been watching.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:39 pm

I'm remembering crumbing vig in the Rage mini normal game, though I don't think I ever pointed back to the crumb. I was the SK.

I made a vig-like NK on night 1.

meh.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:01 pm

In post 1308, RedCoyote wrote:Yeah, I'll bet. More like a plan B.

It did look like a reaction test to me.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:12 pm

implosion, why did you choose gnomeo for the kill?

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:17 pm

Quite.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:21 pm

In post 1323, implosion wrote:I was debating between him, layla, notscience and pie, for the most part. I honestly don't remember why I didn't go for pie. I think I went through like 4-5 instances of opening pie's iso, flitting through it, and just feeling meh. It was probably mostly because it seemed like he was getting townreads from others. ns I didn't want to shoot because ffery said she'd be able to read ns better as time went on i think. It eventually came down to layla and gnomeo, and I picked gnomeo because I was hoping layla was going to start posting more since her early posting felt town. I also think I thought gnomeo was more widely suspected. I didn't really trust my own reads so I wanted to shoot someone who was widely suspected; I didn't really see any good choices, but I wanted to kill someone.

Who do you think would have been a better shot? Was I just reading the overall trends of who was being suspected poorly? I was mostly shooting based on what I perceived to be the town's general reads, not my own.

Also: I'm 2-shot (I didn't say this initially because maybe a week ago I had a random idea that I could pretend to be 1-shot if there was a late massclaim, and then save an extra shot for drawing after 3p lylo or something like that, which is a horrible reason yes, but alas). If you do think I'm a serial killer I'm not going to have any freedom to do as I want.

Why did you decide to shoot at all then?

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:07 pm

ok.

VOTE: Boonskiies

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:09 pm

In post 1342, Nachomamma8 wrote:The part that looks bad to me about implosion is the part where pie pointed out that he was supposedly shooting a townread and his response was that he was trying to shoot a consensus scumread.

Don't have real time to think about this now, but I'm not sure I'm willing to lynch someone who is probably not scum, especially when we can just tell him not to shoot unless we drop down to evens.

As long as we don't have anything resemblilng Smite.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:31 pm

In post 1343, Nachomamma8 wrote:Actually I lied.

Let's speed up the process.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:11 pm

I simultaneously like and hate it, but Boonskiies' extremely self-aware self meta is what it is.

UNVOTE

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:14 pm

Vinkah put down almost 100 posts on day 1. his day 2 has mostly been prod dodges, but I can't call his day 1 anything but town, footnoting my post about him earlier today.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:20 pm

You feel good about Wicked town? I'm townreading him in part because I read the kind of irritability he displays as town. It's becoming a lazy read.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:22 pm

That's why I hate it. It's abusable.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:08 pm

In post 1371, Soft-spoken wrote:now is nacho gunna play this off like it was his plan all along to get boon to jump on him so he could towntell? i suppose it could be believable. but outside that possibility that vote was susp AF

In post 1348, fferyllt wrote:
In post 1343, Nachomamma8 wrote:Actually I lied.

Let's speed up the process.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:37 pm

S-S, you quoted the post where Nacho said that if Boonskiies is town then he will become hilariously and obviously town given enough time.

That is the context of the statement "let's speed up the process". I hesitate to call it meta confirmation. It's just catching and understanding what Nacho had in mind. Which is why I voted Boonskiies in my next post.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:41 pm

I'm going to laugh. or cry. if this game turns out to have scum day talk and nacho and boonskiies are scum.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:42 pm

Boonskiies you've gone from voting Wicked to calling him town. What changed your mind?

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:44 pm

In post 1385, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1366, fferyllt wrote:You feel good about Wicked town? I'm townreading him in part because I read the kind of irritability he displays as town. It's becoming a lazy read.

I'm not as comfortable with Wicked-town as I was before, no, mostly because he's been pretty consistent in delivering content, tone seems genuine enough, nothing really stands out a whole lot, so I've just been ignoring him lately.

Also, I don't really understsand this. You're not as comfortable that he's town, because you've been ignoring him because he seems pretty town?

fferyllt · Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:10 pm

I think it's exposure to cabd more than anything. I'm more aware when a gambit is afoot since he corrupted me.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:26 am

I'm not as sure about it being a town reaction from Boonskiies either on reflection.

I'm starting to hate this game.

Vinkah is way off his timeline for getting back to this game and deadline is looming in a very chancy feeling late-day.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:11 am

In post 1416, Tammy wrote:What is your read on Nacho from his most recent catchup?

The one thing that has me a little worried is his tone, but that could also be his grumpiness over being sick seeping through.

his tone has been bothering me all game. I think it's life, though, and the bother has been less over time.

If this game has day chat then my concerns about nacho would rise based on his trajectory re boonskiies. In ny 169 we had masons who were able to confirm day chat was probably a thing, though I don't remember day chat assumptions pointing up potential scum there.

The point about the leadership vacuum in this game is a valid one. scum nacho would probably have filled it, at least at the tactical moments.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:12 am

In post 1413, Tammy wrote:Pie - Did you stop believing that you can leash SKs?

This is a good question.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:38 am

fferyllt · Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:40 am

Nacho:

In post 1429, pieguyn wrote:remind me who you want to lynch again

I'd like to know this too.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:48 am

Did you pick up on the meta reasons why S-S's entrance wasn't alignment indicative?

fferyllt · Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:28 pm

In post 1445, notscience wrote:The thing about keeping people off balance?

Start reading at 961 through the next 5-10 posts. That's where I asked him if he was done with his scummy entrance thing.

In 1016 touched on the fact that I had a meta expectation that he'd start with a scummy looking entrance and then read players based on how they reacted.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:11 pm

In post 1450, notscience wrote:I don't think "playing scummy to get reads based off of how people view you" excuses him from anything, if that's what you're asking.

because he does it every game?

It's part of the reason I'm townreading him. the other stuff is mostly how he's interacting with me and with his scumreads.

I'm telling you this so you won't try to lynch him after I die.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:45 pm

In post 1457, Wickedestjr wrote:
In post 1455, fferyllt wrote:
In post 1450, notscience wrote:I don't think "playing scummy to get reads based off of how people view you" excuses him from anything, if that's what you're asking.

because he does it every game?

It's part of the reason I'm townreading him. the other stuff is mostly how he's interacting with me and with his scumreads.

I'm telling you this so you won't try to lynch him after I die.

Does he do this as scum? Pretty sure I asked you or him that question earlier but it's hard for me to check right now and I don't remember figuring it out...

here's an iso where he was scum and didn't do an awkward entrance. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

I thought I had seen a game where S-S was third party but I can't find it tonight.

Mostly, he's been town here.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:55 am

I'm at a loss.
I won't shed tears at a boonskiies lynch but I don't have a strong sense that he'll flip scum.

But, at the end of this game day, I feel like I have reasons of various strengths to think every player is town.

Strong town: S-S, Wicked
Kinda town: Nacho, Tammy, (and I have paranoia about both though to a lesser extent Tammy), Pieguyn
Meh: Notsci, RedCoyote, Vinkah, boonskiies
Don't like: implosion

p-edit and I see boonskiies is at L-1.

I'm willing to hammer.

I was hoping nacho would come back before deadline and talk about who he thinks should be the day's lynch.

Bothers me a little that his vote is on a wagon he doesn't support any more and the player is once again the lynch leader.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:37 am

What's your read if him?

fferyllt · Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:10 am

In post 1519, Soft-spoken wrote:also, dont hammer. nacho needs to come back with an update, explain why he left his vote hanging... who he would rather vote....

and possibly strongarm an alternative lynch?

This.

I'll hammer before deadline but I want Nacho and Tammy and hopefully Vinkah to put more into the thread before the day ends.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:28 pm

I was kinda hoping that might be it, but I'd like some reasoning.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:36 pm

I see the questions about wickedestjr and all I can say atm is "gut". I'll try make my gut more articulate tonight.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:54 pm

I'm not going to be able to get back to this game for a couple hours. If possible, please hold off on the hammer until I'm back.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:58 pm

Soft-spoken:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Wicked's most recent game as mafia. I don't have time to read the game in depth right now. Looking at the iso, some things stand out to me as different from this game. I'm curious if you see them too. I'm going to wait until you reply before I expound.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:20 pm

have you played together much before?

It looked to me like he has no idea of what your town game consists of.

I'm confused why he's townreading me given I voted him immediately after nacho did.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:34 pm

anyway, what I saw of his play in the Whedon game was pretty chaotic and I dunno not quite reality based at times. his reads seemed to be based mostly on whatever was happening in that precise moment in the game thread.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:42 am

In post 1572, Soft-spoken wrote:
In post 1557, fferyllt wrote:Soft-spoken:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Wicked's most recent game as mafia. I don't have time to read the game in depth right now. Looking at the iso, some things stand out to me as different from this game. I'm curious if you see them too. I'm going to wait until you reply before I expound.

so far ive noticed he asked questions more frequent, was marginally more defensive, and posted less often in that game. not sure if any of that means anything. about to dig into my "gameview keywords" method.

I think I'm also seeing there is less follow-up, more softballs/shallower pushes, slightly more content that isn't directly related to the game. All of that goes in my "tone" bin.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:08 am

Am I wrong? I thought it was a subtle difference.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:47 am

tammy my takeaway from the whedon game is that his reads as town don't make a lot of sense, tend to be super-reactive, and digging for more from him is usually pointless. In that game, I hated the idea of him making it to lylo. I will probably feel similarly in this one.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:54 am

In post 1588, fferyllt wrote:tammy my takeaway from the whedon game is that his reads as town don't make a lot of sense, tend to be super-reactive, and digging for more from him is usually pointless. In that game, I hated the idea of him making it to lylo. I will probably feel similarly in this one.

that said, his night actions as inventor had a positive impact on the game, eventually virtually cleared him, saved the IC by wifom about getting protection and enabled the last two town players to be in a neighborhood when the game went to the wire.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:30 pm

vote: redcoyote

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:26 pm

I've seen him genuinely struggle as town. I have one game with him where he seemed to struggle to get into the game and form reads and was scum, but this feels more real and up front than he did in the FF10 game.

I keep thinking he'll have to be lynched eventually if he doesn't get it together, or he waits until players who could authoritatively call him town for getting it together are all dead.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:28 pm

RC

I freak out at miller claims under pressure. If you're town I wish you had claimed early.

"The Big M"

sigh.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:36 pm

I"m one of those weird players who treat miller claims like named townies for the first couple game days. IME as a miller and in playing with millers, they're usually highly motivated to steamroll scum and end the game well before they'd be before-mylo/lylo lynched.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:37 pm

The thing we're stuck with here is deadline.

I don't feel great about our chances of hitting scum with a flashlynch.

Which basically leaves us with a claimed miller and claimed vt as most doable wagons.

Which I hate.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:45 pm

unvote

having dinner. will try to come back with a clear head.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:28 pm

In post 1642, Tammy wrote:
In post 1640, Soft-spoken wrote:
In post 1638, Tammy wrote:i feel like you started it with me, but I'm sure everyone else will disagree so yay!

it always feels that way dear. who would start flaming if they didnt feel like they are being undermined/attacked

thats why i stopped

that's fine then why did you try to bring it back up and lay it on me when I have you in my town reads?

Because that plus that feels disingenuous.

Tammy I don't understand why (who you are townreading) should be a factor in whether or not (your townread) is suspicious of you.

I mean it would be a better world if town could just reach out and find each other at the start of every game, but it wouldn't be an interesting game of mafia.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:40 pm

sigh.

why the fuck tammy?

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:41 pm

In post 1657, Tammy wrote:I'm not a drama starter I'm not even close to being a drama starter, I've just been trying to figure out this game with what I have, but apparently noone can read that.

But now you can setup spec. Why would the investigative role in this game be a role cop???

You tell me.

because miller. :/

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:42 pm

pretty sure that was a joke.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:42 pm

sarcasm.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:43 pm

had it up to here with an insane game day and posting weird shit just because.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:44 pm

ok, well, rolecop plus miller makes sense.

maybe a mafia godfather in the mix, too, though that's pretty cliche.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:47 pm

I think we should have pressured Vinkah today. I think that needs to happen on day 3.

what's the count on boonskiies?

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:50 pm

Vote boonskiies

L-3 then.

pedit or whatever empire says.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:14 pm

I'd like to see notsci's response to that.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:26 pm

uh

She's been setup speccing since day 1.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:47 pm

I'm here.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:35 pm

In post 1702, Tammy wrote:also boonskie's reasoning for scum reading gem is not fucking gut cuz he gave dumb ass reasons for doing it bugt apparently everyone is just going to let him go because he's boon skies and chaotic so let's ignore him even if it;s the detriment of the game for town.

Like really if I just passed all the people in my classes that didn't actually read anything I told them to and gave me bullshit answers I'd be preparing the dumbest ass workforce and that's what you people are advocating here.

SHHHHHHHHHHHH just ignore boon skies he doesn't make sense but we don't want to make waves, we'd rather cuddle with him and left town lose so yeeeeeeeeeah.

I'm voting boonskiies.

I'll switch to RC if that's where you want to vote.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:39 pm

it's in RC's interest to come back. Otherwise we'll have to consolidate on him anyway.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:11 pm

LAL doesn't apply.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:35 pm

PoE is pointing in Vinkah's direction.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:48 pm

I would rather not lynch notsci today.

p edit have one what earlier tonight?

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:57 pm

Is RC possible? he's clearable, but that could leave implosion unsortable.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:03 pm

the problem with a flashwgon on vinkah is that he isn't around to claim.

he's a priority for day 3.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:05 pm

In post 1766, Tammy wrote:wait what

In regard to what?

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:13 pm

meh.

vote: RC

I'll stay awake in case boonskiies becomes possible.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:15 pm

Though it would be hilarious to try to explain why 'Yeah he claimed miller and we don't want to lynch him because reasons!!!' with five minutes to go or something.

Is it? I thought it was L-2. math probably changed with wicked arrival.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:22 pm

awesome! Is that his first meal since coming home?

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:33 pm

so who? vt-claim-boonskiies or miller-claim-RC?

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:37 pm

he claimed unspecified pr to draw the nk.

vote: boonskiies

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:42 pm

18 minutes.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:49 pm

was starting to worry.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:50 pm

geez.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:59 pm

notsci townread firmed up some

vinkah read is solidly at the bottom of the meh pile.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:00 pm

good luck tonight!

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:01 pm

In post 1833, Tammy wrote:
In post 1826, notscience wrote:Which, ffery then told me I was wrong and I was like "welp gues I'm lying and scum, or I was apathetic and missed it. You decide!"

What were you apathetic and missed?

that you setup specced back on day 1.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:43 pm

Tammy, there was no way I was going to let you be deadline lynched today. That was never on the table.

fferyllt · Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:48 am

Vinkah what are your current reads?

fferyllt · Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:04 am

In post 1831, pieguyn wrote:the fuck

What was this in reference to?

fferyllt · Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:21 am

I still believe Tammy's claim. Didn't need a wall from her to see how it fits into the game design or how the role informed her game spec.

As far a scum roles, With an extra kill in the game, I would expect a protective role. And that would also potentially mislead a role cop result.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:25 am

I'm ok with mass claim.

fferyllt · Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:20 pm

she may have tried for a protect rather than a block. that's my jk strategy usually on n1

fferyllt · Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:53 pm

In post 1878, pieguyn wrote:
In post 1876, notscience wrote:I want more of a response to the end of the day than "the fuck"

I also am fine with a massclaim.

I hadn't read it in-depth when I posted that. sleep is a hell of a drug.

now that I have, I think your reasons for pushing her were, put bluntly, god-awful. I will comment more on this if it's still relevant after massclaim.

What posts of notsci's are you talking about here?

fferyllt · Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:33 pm

In post 1893, notscience wrote:I think if nacho/pie were scum they would have strongarmed this game.

One of them is, yes.

Not both.

This is probably true.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:22 am

I can claim if you like.

I had the impression we were waiting for Tammy to kick off popcorn or something.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:23 am

In post 1902, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1856, Wickedestjr wrote:
Vote: Nachomamma8

fferyllt wrote:what are your current reads?

Why did this vote come so late?

What does this mean?

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:47 am

Is your pie read based on the interactions between notsci and her?

What do you think about her play here vs the Kagami micro where she and doduo were scum?

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:11 pm

vt.

You should read the game oversoul

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:13 pm

nacho.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:14 pm

In post 1934, Oversoul wrote:Tammy, who should I vote?
Who are you top 2 scum reads/town reads?

Fferyllt, read on Nacho?

paranoid, leaning town

I'm not going to be around to answer questions for the next hour or so.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:20 pm

notsci have you claimed?

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:01 pm

In post 1929, notscience wrote:Also, why is ffery still alive.

Why are you asking this?

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:10 pm

So what night should I have died?

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:17 pm

S-s would have been privy to Layla's night action. Did you get something useful from his reads?

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:19 pm

In post 1933, Oversoul wrote:Why not?

I read like a page back and saw that she was one of the people not claimed

Pretty sure 1 of Tammy, Fferylt, Nacho is scum.

In post 1934, Oversoul wrote:Tammy, who should I vote?
Who are you top 2 scum reads/town reads?

Fferyllt, read on Nacho?

In one post you say one of Tammy, Nacho, me is scum and in the next post you ask Tammy who you should vote.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:21 pm

I'm townreading notsci. I have one niggle I"m considering, but it feels pretty minor in comparison to his overall play.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:30 pm

In post 1983, notscience wrote:It delves down to what I know of pie. I know pie has been dying to draw scum with nacho because the two of them are very loud people when they want to be and could yell down people scumreading the other. Basically I could see them going "oh hey you are town and you are town lets be mason buddies!" and then just strongarm their way through the days, killing vocal people like ffery and tammy, I would probably be alive because while I would be paranoid of both they would protect each other.

Its basically they are both very strong players and I know pie has been dying to be scum with nacho so rather than play as passive a game as they have with town really looking for a leader, if they were scum together they oculd have easily controlled this.

pedit-
what do you think of pie not campaigning to you

I think you mentioned it a little early, at least wrt her scumreading you today. Though it's a decent observation overall. She hasn't really tried to work with me much. I don't really remember her trying to work with anyone.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:01 pm

In post 1997, Oversoul wrote:
In post 1981, fferyllt wrote:
In post 1933, Oversoul wrote:Why not?

I read like a page back and saw that she was one of the people not claimed

Pretty sure 1 of Tammy, Fferylt, Nacho is scum.

In post 1934, Oversoul wrote:Tammy, who should I vote?
Who are you top 2 scum reads/town reads?

Fferyllt, read on Nacho?

In one post you say one of Tammy, Nacho, me is scum and in the next post you ask Tammy who you should vote.

Should tell you who I think is scum within that group!

Why is it a group of three then?

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:02 pm

In post 1991, pieguyn wrote:ffery: do you/why do you disagree with my points in 1988?

Every time I try to read that post my head hurts. I'm going to try to break it down into small pieces, but may not do it tonight.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:16 pm

In post 2003, pieguyn wrote:
In post 1999, fferyllt wrote:Every time I try to read that post my head hurts. I'm going to try to break it down into small pieces, but may not do it tonight.

let me know if you want me to clarify anything. it was 5 AM when I wrote it -.-

essentially, with the first point, reread the end of D2 and pay attention to how, specifically, it played out in terms of Tammy's setup spec. it essentially went like this:

notsci: "I don't remember you setup spec'ing until now, so I don't see why I should read you as town for it."
Tammy: "wrong, I've been setup spec'ing since D1."
Tammy: *links where she was setup spec'ing on D1"
notsci: "it doesn't help your case, you could be scum manipulating your meta."

which is a disingenuous as fuck response and doesn't read like he actually wanted to sort her. the second point is just that town-notsci should have been able to see that Tammy was town here at the point where he made 1839.

I don't think the fourth piece of dialog there is what he was saying.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:19 pm

In post 2004, Oversoul wrote:So, Implosion claimed vigilante?

You're asking if this is so?

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:37 pm

In post 2008, pieguyn wrote:
In post 2005, fferyllt wrote:I don't think the fourth piece of dialog there is what he was saying.

it is, though? he literally said this:

In post 1839, notscience wrote:second off, if I'm not sure, you throwing things I used to read you in past games at me isn't helping because *maybe* you are scum who knows how I read you and what to incorporate *not I am not saying you are but you kinda need to understand why this isnt helping your case any*

when that wasn't how it happened - she was hardly making a big deal over it until the point where he had missed her setup spec'ing back on D1. the only reason she pushed her setup spec'ing in the way that she did here was because he had missed it the first time. and then when she asked him why she would go out of her way to tailor her meta towards him as opposed to anyone else in the game, he didn't answer it.

he'd missed the setup spec. I pointed out he'd missed it. he acknowledged she did setup spec on day 1. Then, Tammy brought it up again - because she was going through the thread sequentially and saw he'd missed it (but it looked like she had not yet read that I'd pointed it out. I think that for him, it felt like a late hit, after he'd already acknowledged he was wrong.

You're processing (and recounting) this through Tammy's PoV. Neither point of view lined up with events, but I felt like both were honest.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:02 pm

In post 2017, notscience wrote:fery does honesty mean someone is town?

Not always. There are usually aspects of the game that scum can be quite honest about.

I felt like in this case you were both being honest about town-stuff.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:28 pm

In post 2038, pieguyn wrote:
In post 2013, fferyllt wrote:he'd missed the setup spec. I pointed out he'd missed it. he acknowledged she did setup spec on day 1. Then, Tammy brought it up again - because she was going through the thread sequentially and saw he'd missed it (but it looked like she had not yet read that I'd pointed it out. I think that for him, it felt like a late hit, after he'd already acknowledged he was wrong.

You're processing (and recounting) this through Tammy's PoV. Neither point of view lined up with events, but I felt like both were honest.

I actually thought Tammy's POV was really clear throughout the exchange (apart from right at the start where she thought notsci was talking about her setup spec'ing in general and not in this game), and it read to me like he was specifically nitpicking shit in order to look like he had a point/was engaged with the game. but, either way, I don't see at all where he'd get the idea that she was bringing her setup spec up in order to manipulate her meta off of it (which he did say).

And you can't see that coming from a place of pure paranoia at the tail end of a game day like day 2 became?

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:30 pm

The one thng that bothered me about notsci at the tail end of day 2 isn't even on your radar screen apparently. :/

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:33 pm

In post 2039, Wickedestjr wrote:I'm going to sleep now, but have been thinking and wanted to throw this out there:

Could it be Nacho/Oversoul/ffery ?

Nacho/Oversoul, in particular, makes a lot of sense to me. Nacho's near-deadline play on both days is still bothersome (I hope he plans on responding to my last post wrt him). Vinkah has had Nacho as a scum read for most of this game, but never voted or questioned or made any effort to sort him. Nacho's post 1364 makes me feel even more confident that they are connected.

ffery is mostly POE + interactions with my other scum reads. I've had a pretty decent town read on her for most of the game, but it's clear after Boon/SS flips that I'm wrong on at least one of my weaker town reads. I don't know who could be scum with Nacho/Oversoul if not ffery...

I'm not comfortable town reading {implosion, pieguyn, RedCoyote} yet, but none of them make sense as partners with Nacho/Oversoul.

Still trying to consider everything, but will answer any questions about this tomorrow

Gnight

how do you see a me/vinkah team? Did I wk him straight through to late day 2 and then decide to weak-bus him today?

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:38 pm

It was!

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:57 pm

In post 2045, pieguyn wrote:
In post 2040, fferyllt wrote:And you can't see that coming from a place of pure paranoia at the tail end of a game day like day 2 became?

if it is, then wow? even before the claim came out, I thought the arguments she was pushing were well-reasoned and fairly standard for her: he should have noticed Tammy setup spec'ing before if it was a key part of how he read her in WTP. and it wasn't like she was attempting to say "I did this, thus you should be reading me as town" or anything like that; all it was was her questioning why he wouldn't have picked up on it at all. there is a difference between noticing something someone did as town and factoring it into your read, even if you are hesitant to town read them for it again (even if from her POV it would be a town sign for her), and not noticing it entirely.

and I don't think paranoia of her would have been justified at all after she claimed. that would be pretty fucking ridiculous to the point where I'm not entertaining it as a possibility.

I think you're missing the context of being in the thread and breathing all the crazy as we wondered what lynch options were even possible given where the votes were and who appeared to be around to vote. It was an exhausting night. If I hadn't had a solid read on S-s going into that I think I would have either had a meltdown or thrown up my hands and logged out. I don't know how the people on eastern and central time weathered it.

You can see it at the end where Tammy was still moving her vote around after the hammer. People weren't necessarily caught up and in the moment.

In post 2044, fferyllt wrote:It was!

I don't *actually* care that much about survivalism in the middle of a deadline scramble unless it's something obvious like what Titus did in S&V2 where she absolutely had to make sure there was a counterwagon to her scum partner available before switching votes. I'm not reading him as scum for that in particular.[/quote]

I thought he was acting like a PR in distress. S-s' flip freaked me out a little because of that.

fferyllt · Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:57 pm

In post 2046, Oversoul wrote:Is Implosion claiming his kill went through and someone else was protected?

Yes.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:11 am

In post 2077, RedCoyote wrote:Anyway, if myself, notscience, Tammy and Wicked all work together, we can win this game. Let's start by lynching Oversoul. We can bond over a nice, clean scum lynch.

(FYI this is also me saying that ffrey is the first one kicked off the island if by some miracle we make it to myself, notscience, Tammy, Wicked and ffrey as the last five living players).

I think that's pretty unlikely to happen.

It's against my scruples to vote a replacement player before they've had a chance to catch up and engage the game. Right now, that's where my vote wants to be, though.

Tammy, how do you feel about Oversoul's entrance?

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:20 am

sigh.

I'm probably wrong about one of you. :/

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:20 am

Last night our argument reminded me of the serum and steel game.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:13 am

In post 2089, pieguyn wrote:
In post 2087, fferyllt wrote:Last night our argument reminded me of the serum and steel game.

I'm really not sure what to say? if there's something specific that you're taking issue with, feel free to ask about it.

I felt like your rebuttal of Ceph being fatalistic in that game was wrong-headed, and I remember responding to your case on her after you kept asking me to engage it, and basically said you were reading the mindset wrong, and that I felt like you engaged me not to learn what I actually thought, but to convince me you were right.

I feel like I'm getting into a similar argument here, but I don't think it's as clear-cut that you're misreading notsci's mindest, or that I'm reading him correctly. But, last night, I felt strongly that you were wrong about the mindset driving his late day 2 play, and that once again you were more interested in convincing me I was wrong than in understanding what I'm thinking.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:43 am

In post 2099, Oversoul wrote:Pieguy
Nacho
Fferyllt

In that order, tell me what you think of Notscience?

Why is pieguy scum?

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:44 am

In post 2100, pieguyn wrote:
In post 2094, RedCoyote wrote:Tammy was reading wrong how? How how how? I don't understand why scumnotscience goes out of his way to piss off Tammy, which is what he did. I mean, he didn't do it to be cruel or anything, but my point is he didn't have to say anything about Tammy's setup spec, positive or negative. I contend, as scum, he sure as hell wouldn't have went negative.

what would he have done instead, ignored it? he initially started talking about it because Tammy asked him about it in the first place.

ffery/me exchange starts at 1991; the main point here is that I really think town-notsci in particular should have been able to see Tammy was town here post-claim.

This is your strongest point.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:14 am

In post 2110, Oversoul wrote:Well fuck... Read up to a certain point and that throws a wrench into things.

Spoiler: the scums
Pretty sure {Wickedestjr, RedCoyote, Tammy, Nachomamma8, fferyllt, notscience, implosion, pieguyn} contains all the scum

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:37 am

You seem to be having a series of went to shit moments.

Can you explain what you were thinking and why it went to shit?

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:19 pm

In post 2136, Oversoul wrote:I don't remember playing a game with fferyllt as a solo slot,

Mafia of the Raptured and Signs and Void, though as I said during that game it was essentially a sangres game.

My head hurts.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:31 pm

In post 2141, Nachomamma8 wrote:I read that wall twice now and it looked terrible both times.

What specifically was terrible about it?

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:53 pm

In post 2201, RedCoyote wrote:
In post 2194, RedCoyote wrote:WHO did SS/Layla jail on N1??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I wish someone smarter than me would've brought this up earlier. I just read his first few posts and I have no clue. Obviously he jailed scum, but I have absolutely no leads. He votes Anen in his 3rd or 4th post which tells me he probably randomly jailed someone and never thought to breadcrumb it even after implosion claimed.

Or layla intentionally tried to protect town.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:11 pm

I've never played with scum-oversoul.

Do you have a link to an oversoul-scum game/

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:50 pm

I'm here-ish.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:58 pm

In post 2233, pieguyn wrote:
In post 2231, fferyllt wrote:I'm here-ish.

you're town reading RC, correct?

I don't even know any more.

I think s.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:09 pm

In post 2237, pieguyn wrote:
In post 2235, fferyllt wrote:I don't even know any more.

I think s.

fair enough.

do you think, given his role, I would have played the end of D2 the way I did with me-scum RC-town?

if you're scum the only reason to show up was to avoid being suspected today for being conspicuously absent.

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:14 pm

In post 2105, fferyllt wrote:
In post 2100, pieguyn wrote:
In post 2094, RedCoyote wrote:Tammy was reading wrong how? How how how? I don't understand why scumnotscience goes out of his way to piss off Tammy, which is what he did. I mean, he didn't do it to be cruel or anything, but my point is he didn't have to say anything about Tammy's setup spec, positive or negative. I contend, as scum, he sure as hell wouldn't have went negative.

what would he have done instead, ignored it? he initially started talking about it because Tammy asked him about it in the first place.

ffery/me exchange starts at 1991; the main point here is that I really think town-notsci in particular should have been able to see Tammy was town here post-claim.

This is your strongest point.

Notsci could you address this? post-claim, what were your concerns?

fferyllt · Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:19 pm

vote: Nacho

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:09 am

In post 2251, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 2243, fferyllt wrote:
vote: Nacho

:/

Ffery, are you scum? I've been hoping you could sort of translate my thoughts wrt RC to wicked for me, and then right when I'm expecting you to step in and help, you vote me. Why?

I voted you because this game doesn't make any sense and I feel like it's because my reads are terrible. I've been trusting you and following you to some eextent but it's like I have a lump of ice in my stomach.

I voted you, hoping you're town and you'll show it in your reaction and you'll do what I can't seem to do which is solve this game.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:32 am

In post 2258, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 2256, fferyllt wrote:I voted you, hoping you're town and you'll show it in your reaction and you'll do what I can't seem to do which is solve this game.

Why did you vote me when you did? What is your opinion on oversoul's entry?

What do you think about the pieguy/notsci thing that's been simmering all game and broke out into a conflagration today?

I hated oversoul's entry all the way up to his big post. Do you think as scum he'd feel the situation is dire enough for his slot that he'd hail mary? because if he actually has a PR then I feel like someone else - maybe implosion? - is lying. how to factor in Tammy's reaction that he's town?

I'm not sure how I feel about you voting me to get a reaction. That seems uncharacteristic.

Uncharted territory. You're coming off calm and disconnected. It's been like that to some degree all along, but today is more so.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:48 am

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:16 am

In post 2265, Nachomamma8 wrote:Short things I have to say that are more significant than not and can't wait until later is that he becomes significantly more scummy with the VT claim; I posted the "I'll lynch all PR claims" and was mostly serious about it earlier, and I think the way he claimed to Tammy was really manipulative.

If he was not VT, the only reason to claim VT would be to remain hidden to do damage to the scum team overnight. Claiming not VT makes him a threat to either kill or roleblock. Having Tammy target him when Tammy has about a 99% chance of dying tonight is :/, but extra extra doesn't make sense if he believes that Tammy is just gonna waltz in and townread him.

I don't understand all of this. paragraph 2 is about oversoul. but paragraph 1? Who becomes more scummy with the vt claim?

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:17 am

ugh

unvote:

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:47 am

Don't assume I won't hammer.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:04 am

In post 2296, RedCoyote wrote:ffrey not backing up implosion here is no bueno.

What?

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:06 am

I see what your post says but I think you've misread something.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:19 am

You want to cut tammy's opportunity to talk to and about oversoul tonight?

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:20 am

because you can threaten and 'no buieno' and call me scum all you like. Won't change what I think about hammering him when Tammy wants input.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:21 am

In post 2307, RedCoyote wrote:Tammy is town...

So, that makes her input worthless?

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:23 am

In post 2310, RedCoyote wrote:And it's not even about the hammer, ffrey. It's about you putting Oversoul in his place (or not). You should've forced him to claim. I don't think I'm blowing this out of proportion. I think this was very telling about your intentions.

I told him I'd hammer him.

My intentions are what they've been from my first post in this game.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:24 am

In post 2312, RedCoyote wrote:Anyway, I have to go, sorry.
V/LA until Friday
.

When you come back I want to know why you were pushng me to hammer when Tammy had JUST ASKED FOR A FEW HOURS.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:42 am

In post 2316, RedCoyote wrote:You can act all cool and dispassionate, ffrey, but I don't think you are appreciating where I am coming from in terms of scumhunting here.

In post 2314, fferyllt wrote:When you come back I want to know why you were pushng me to hammer when Tammy had JUST ASKED FOR A FEW HOURS.

You made the "threat" before Tammy posted, so this is misleading. Really misleading.

Really got to go now.

I posted precisely what I wanted to convey. Tammy has made it clear in her earlier posts that she thinks oversoul could be town. I want to know why. I don't think him refusing to claim is protown. But, I won't hammer him before she does that. "Intent to hammer" would be directionally true, but misleading because I wasn't going to hammer that very moment if he didn't claim.

This lynch is critical. If it's a mislynch then I'm very worried that the next one will also be a mislynch.

As a musing aside, I'd kinda like my own flip out there so people can evaluate the read-changes today and how well supported they were.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:13 am

In post 2322, Wickedestjr wrote:
In post 2319, fferyllt wrote:As a musing aside, I'd kinda like my own flip out there so people can evaluate the read-changes today and how well supported they were.

If you're town, then
you
already know that you'd flip town. So what do you think?

You've kinda waffled about me all game and you don't have a lot of experience playing with me so I'm not inclined to think you're being opportunistic.

Some of the same things apply re RedCoyote, but to a lesser degree and my town read of him had faded somewhat during day 2 and it's mostly his claim that pushed me off his case. We're probably going to get to mylo or lylo with a claimed miller, but I don't consider that to he a horrible thing if the player has played a strong town game all along. he said. he was trying to draw an NK, but I don't see how his play day 1/2 prior to his claim looked like attempting to draw the nk, except for the partial claim. So, less sure about him.

Nacho is the one I'm really worried about. he talked about our usual town mind meld, but I've only had flickers of that. the strongest flicker was on day 1 when he was rethinking Anen. If anyone was going to get into my head and see where my vote came from, it would be him. And instead, he scumread me for it. It's sitting out there in the thread in a strange place with no obvious antecedent because the drivers were all internal. Anyway, he's been going back and forth with you over one vote most of the game day while all this crap is happening between notsci vs pie. I wanted more indication of where his thoughts on oversoul were headed, but maybe that was unrealistic given his thread presence.

Pie completely ignored my nacho vote and launched into setup spec. That also bothered me.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:14 am

In post 2331, implosion wrote:yep
a vt who wanted to draw out the rolecop on them because a rolecop on a vt totally gives us useful information
makes sense.

This is a good point.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:44 pm

In post 2347, notscience wrote:Ffery you know if we don't sort this out now and oversoul flips town we have a pool of two people with one scum in it to pick between.

We need to lynch pie first.

I really don't feel an oversoul lynch anymore.

Pedit
I dont need to worry. People understand that there are dcum between us. If they lynch me first and then I flip town, you die.

So.

I'm not convinced one of you is scum. That's why I feel totally at sea right now.

(Tammy, Wicked) - strongest town
(Notsci, Pieguy) - town
(Implosion, RedCoyote) - at least one is town, and if I had to choose I'd choose the claimed miller over the claimed vig
(Oversoul, Nacho) - leftovers. If my 4 townreads that aren't dependent on setup spec are correct then Oversoul has to be scum.

You're going to tell me I'm wrong about Pie. Pie is going to tell me I'm wrong about you. Meh.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:06 pm

I hope Tammy has stuff to say that makes all the puzzle peices fit.

no pressure, Tammy!

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:45 pm

In post 2343, pieguyn wrote:(and no, I don't particularly give a shit about the not-VT retraction. anyone who thinks that shit is _actually_ more likely to come from scum is just wrong)

And his telling Tammy to investigate him tonight?

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:48 pm

Tammy, in Vesperia you said the jazz hands were missing and he was being robotic.

Compared to this game, Vesperia had tons of jazz hands. That's one of the things that has been worrying me all along.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:37 pm

In post 2379, Tammy wrote:Ugh I thought for sure I remembered a post of ffery's trying to get stuff out there in the event she died and now I can't find it. Can someone help? Am I hallucinating?

Day 2? I was trying to make sure my reasons for townreading S-s were understood. I also went to some effort to show S-s why I was townreading Wicked. I thnk one of the last things I posted was an updated notsci read and that I wanted Vinkah to be a priority today.

It wasn't one post. It was scattered through late day 1.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:42 pm

Tammy being on a strong scum team doesn't help me much. I probably do better when I feel like it's all going to come down to me, though I hate the pressure of it.

p edit hell.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:43 pm

I fucking hate this game.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:43 pm

goddamnit notsci. I'm trying to figure shit out here.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:45 pm

Where am I pushing you on your back foot?

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:53 pm

I did expect to take the kill. Or more accurately hoped.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:56 pm

I don't know.

It is odd that she isn't working harder to dismantle the Oversoul wagon, but I know her available time for mafia is very constrained.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:58 pm

It's the same excuse I've been making for nacho all game. Limited time, phone posting, etc. I've been hydraing with him pretty much constantly since spring, and I know he's got small bits of time here and there to spend on mafia.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:15 pm

In post 2417, Tammy wrote:
In post 2363, fferyllt wrote:Tammy, in Vesperia you said the jazz hands were missing and he was being robotic.

Compared to this game, Vesperia had tons of jazz hands. That's one of the things that has been worrying me all along.

He is; you're right; he was.

Zodiac showed him being robotic, and he was town. And there was also another game I semi-followed that he was flat in as well and town.

I'm in the process of renegotiating the way I read him and what biases there are, but I'm also taking current games into account and trying to figure out what it means. If that makes sense.

But, if I was reading him on Tales of Vesperia model, I'd have tried to get him lynched day one.

This is why I was paranoid about both of you on day 1. I didn't want to spell it out, but I felt like if

I

was noticing the robotic thing, given that's not how I form reads on hm, it should have been much more evident to you.

I backed off, mostly because you gave me enough reason to think that's not a valid way to read hm now.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:29 pm

I"m still feeling like you're both town and somehow horribly out of synch with each other, suspicious, hostile and paranoid.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:42 pm

I'd like for Pie to reread the convo and explain how she's seeing it the way she's seeing it.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:45 pm

In post 2438, implosion wrote:I can very much see pie's reaction here as being that of scum-caught-for-the-wrong-reasons.

I seriously cannot see anything notscience has done/said in the past 10 pages as scum.

this looks to me like more of the same from yesterday.

I dunno. Right now, I'd rather be trying to figure Nacho out.

Will check back in a few hours and see if he's around.

My laptop is doing the windows 10 install overnight, so if I do check back in it will probably be by tablet.

fferyllt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:15 pm

his comment about feeling abandoned, I think I know what game(s?) that's coming from. The mason game was a selkies game. I don't remember leaving him out to dry in the other selkies scum game. The issue, though, is that I don't understand the distinction he's drawing about his RC read change. The whole discussion seems like a fairly trivial point. And I haven't been confident enough in my own read to want to defend him. I want to see what comes of the discussion.

I dunno.

When I threw that vote down it was mostly to signal to him that I'm paranoid and not seeing where he's coming from. I wasn't surprised that I got a ton of washback for it from other players. I was a little surprised at his reaction.

fferyllt · Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:01 am

In post 2464, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 2238, Wickedestjr wrote:Well why does "missing town traits" suddenly trump "different scum meta"? And what prompted this reread?

My RC meta as its most basic level is that RC as scum is aggressive, engaged, pushes mislynches, widely townread for being conventionally town. RC as town is not.

Normally, what makes a player good as scum to the point where they can be successful in a wide variety of playerlists is through self-awareness, and by possessing an understanding of how other players read you. RC possesses that awareness, and, while it seems unlikely to me that RC would fake his town meta as scum because it gives him less influence in the game and still puts him under a lot of pressure; so, early game, when he seemed more directionless and flail-y, I was townreading him for that very reason. But, whenever you are townreading someone for performing under what they are capable of as scum as opposed to townreading them for outperforming what they are capable as scum, there is always doubt and there is always uneasiness. When Boon became town and implosion claimed vig, my reads were past shot to shit; the only person who really seemed to have a feasible chance of being scum anymore was Vinkah, but that push in and of itself frustrated me because I knew it was a lynch that was exactly like the Boonskies lynch: no one really had a case beyond "lurking, probably not town", and while this is actually a perfectly fine reason to lynch on some occasions, it frustrated me that we kept compromising on lynches for that reason or similar reasons and I knew that Vinkah!town would leave us right back where we started and would probably be fatal for the game state the next day. I saw S-S and Ffery expressing discomfort with RC, so that's where I started. When I started reading RC through a lens of "how does this move make sense as scum from RC?" instead of "is this
really
RC's scumgame?", him being scum made more sense.

This makes more sense to me than your earlier explanations.

fferyllt · Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:23 am

Rolecop
Backup rolecop
Miller
Vig
Jailkeeper

It doesn't feel right.

fferyllt · Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:51 am

In post 2480, pieguyn wrote:ffery

do you think 2251 makes any sense as a reason for Nacho supposedly being paranoid of you here? it felt to me like an entirely arbitrary thing for him to focus on - as if he was faking it.

I want to wait until he catches up and we talk before I answer your question.

fferyllt · Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:57 am

Yeah, I'd like you to hold off on the post please. Shouldn't be too long.

fferyllt · Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:54 am

fferyllt · Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:55 am

In post 2506, notscience wrote:Ffery tell me when you want my thoughts tia.

The only thing about Nacho that I don't want to discuss atm is his read-change on me.

fferyllt · Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:55 am

I"m going to be gone for an hour or so. Was hoping you'd get to your read-change on me while I'm here.