Mini Normal 1707 - Frog Mafia! - GAME OVER - TOWN WIN!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey guys, will be catching up later today.

Customary 'Mala is scum' read.

Hi Zakk!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Catching up.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

From first two pages;

Not liking Zakk's early posting - especially his turn around on Axle. Conversely, I'm liking Axle's continued push on Zakk to try and work out what Zakk was doing.

Don't get NS' town read on Singer either - hoping he explains it at some point.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hm. wondering if Axle is scum because his posts give me this terrible feel to them

Mala, surprise surprise, we disagree. Talk to me about this.

VOTE: metal sonic

just no.

This I like though.

Mala is prob scum

Why is Mala scum?

He feels pretty legitimate to me.

Dislike this post. Very 'go with the flow' and 'look at me providing some reads'.

I disagree with zakk regarding axle.

Veegee might be town.

Thoughts on Axle?

What makes you think VeeGee is town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I should add that I have started missing Axle's posts and would probably PL him. His posting is hard to read and I don't like the fact he doesn't place his vote and instead replaces it with a FOS.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, that didn't take long. No RVS wagon saddens me.

Let's get this going;

VOTE: VeeGee

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You scum read her before that though.

What were your reasons then?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If you disagree with Mala, and think he is town, then you agree with me.

Why do you not like that I discovered this, and changed my mind?

It's the way you did it - it didn't feel genuine on page 1. Like, you had no reason to move votes as far as I am concerned as Axle had done nothing alignment indicative by the time you switched to Mala.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Anyone wanna vote VeeGee?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I've voted VeeGee.

I would like people to join me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Zakk that sounds like really bad reasoning for not voting somebody.

We're also now at p8 having had no wagons form. This isn't a great start.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hoping to catch up on this later tonight.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Metal Sonic is scum.
BlueBloodedToffee is town.
singersigner is town.

Can you just expand on these reads please Zakk?

I'm not sure on you [Mala], yet. You've gone back to a "I'm not sure enough to blatantly push your lynch" type of read.

What changed?

VOTE: Shiro

Let's do this.

I don't get it...

I think you [Singer] are town, I think Veegee is town, I think BBT is probably town.

I'm wary of MS.

i'm wary of shadow.

Can you talk about these reads please?

VOTE: nos

Because I didn't see you already had one.

I don't get it.

Why are you not voting MS or Shaddow?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Zakk, can yoou explain how you feel about me? I noticed I wasn't on your read list.

Can you explain how you feel about anyone? I don't think I have seen a single original thought from you so far...

Before I leave, just wanna say, singer is town, along with Axle. nullscum is notty, and null is zakk. I just ISO dive'd so all of the posts I observed are out of context. Sorry for wasting your time.

This replace out is horrible. Just horrible. The 'null' read on Zakk seems really weird; why did he include a null read?

I am willing to digress on notscience for today.

Okay singer, so if I'm town, you're town, notscience is town, Shiro is town, and Axle is town, who's that leave?

BlueBloodedToffee (Dizzle)
Scorpious (Ciara24)
Malakittens
Metal Sonic
shaddowez
VeeGee

I already know what you think of Nosferatu/replacement(?) so let's focus on the six in the middle.

notscience, feel free to chip in as well.

This post is scummy. Why are you willing to disgress on NS? Why are you accepting Singer's reads as if they're your own? Why have you own reads been removed? Why are you not developing your own reads? Why are you reaching out to Singer in particular?

I feel like you're trying to redirect Singer away from Nos but this is getting into associatives. Making note though so it's in my ISO.

Vote and unvote on Nos was pretty bad as well. What changed?

Queen singer has spoken

VOTE: nosferartu

MS, are you planning on actually doing anything?

Because he hasn't actually /done/ anything. Like, he's been posting once a day.

Here literally all he's done is whiteknight you and be snarky, with a side of fluff.

This is a good post and sums up my feelings on MS

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Even if obvious scum DID get replaced, just lynch the replacement.

Another pointless post brought to you by VeeGee.

BBT-looks like clueless town

What?

Because his play here feels much more laid back than it did in 1625.

You're using meta from one game and think it's reliable?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because his play here feels much more laid back than it did in 1625.

Assuming I'm looking into the right game, I disagree completely. He had a total of 8 posts in that game before being replaced, one of which is a prod dodge. He was scum in that game, and from reading through his posts and interactions, I'm actually getting the same feeling.

Meta reads, huh? Just can't trust them... Still, trying to meta read someone based off of a single game is ridiculously bad.

@Axel...I just finished a game where zakk was scum and I initially mistownread him early game, but eventually he got sloppy. I think the difference in the two early games are the calculatedness of his play. Thinking back on Genesis mafia, he was definitely more calculated on which posts he responded to and how he responded to them. Here he has a much more earnest kind of play, in a way that can look sloppy when it comes to judgements that are based on emotion rather than logic.

Granted, I don't think he's necessarily driven on emotion rather than logic, it's just that's the feeling I'm getting from his posts.

@BBT...where are you? You usually dominate games I've seen you in. What're your reads?

Same - meta reading someone off of a single game is bad.

Yeah, I been a little busy lately so haven't had the time I would have liked. I should become more active in the near future.

As for reads; I'm liking VeeGee for scum. Zakk and Maxwell are not bad shouts for scum either. I like Shaddow and Singer for town, NS and Shiro might be town as well - don't have much of an opinion on anyone else.

fair enough,I just gave my initial reads. I dont know anyone,nor have I read up on anyone. I know that isn't the case now. Thank you for correcting me..

Can you explain what made you think I was clueless town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ika, what are your thoughts on VeeGee?

Maxwell, can you talk about why you're scum reading Shaddow?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: maxwell
VI
would vote
never touching

Huh? Is MS no longer scum? Why is Maxwell scummier than MS?

Wow Zakk

that's a fucking terrible list.

Which parts do you disagree with?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Axle, are you an alt?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Malakittens

Thats weird. Mala is 4th 321

I understand what is plausible to achieve comes into the equation.

but given the huge list of tells in 193 is claimed by you to be objectively scummy,
you have not seemed to me real keen to get them heard and acted on.

not liking it.

This is the first post I have read of yours since 85. I thought you should know that.

This is a good post.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How much more than random do you think VeeGee is to flip scum.

I think there is a pretty good chance that VeeGee flips scum.

Zakk, Do you have intentions of joining the max wagon? He

is

higher on your to-lynch list than Mala..

in fact,Mala is #4.. I doubt there are 4 scum.. Why vote her over your top 3?

Hey, Scorpious is restating other people's arguments.

In fact, I haven't liked much of Scorpious' posting at all and would lynch him.

VOTE: metal sonic

You can do something now, Kthx.

VeeGee hasn't done anything either - not interested in joining a wagon we already have going?

The block of 163,172,and 176 where you were like " I voted,whos with me" was what made me think that,but after it being pointed out and me re-reading stuff I realize my initial read was terrible..Still have you as town though..

That doesn't explain how you come to the conclusion that I was a 'clueless townie'. What got pointed out to you and how did it change your read? What rereading did you do and how did that change your mind?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Caught up - willing to lynch VeeGee, Zakk and Scorpious.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I could probably lynch MS as well actually.

I don't really have anything to say to you Mala. A lot of your posting has been based around meta or stating you don't want to explain things so *shrug*

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If you want to engage me on something; fire away.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

who made this argument?

It was.briefly mentioned in 345,and I do mean briefly. Please tell me who else made this argument..

You just answered your own question dude...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Your read on me changed quickly Mala...what's up with that?

We should flash wagon MS and see how long it takes him to do something/beetlejuice.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scorpious, the argument was made. You just restated what Axle had already pointed out.

Axle, VeeGee has refrained from providing reads, scum hunting and generally doing anything that I would consider pro-town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's not bullshit Scorpious. You clearly just restated an argument - it's right there in black and white. I'm not talking about it any more.

Zakk, meta-dive me yourself. It's pointless, but I enjoy people doing it anyway.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'd lynch MS Mala.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

People should check VeeGee's ]68 and my thoughts on it in 103 if they think there is no reason to think VeeGee is scum.

This can be added to the list of things that VeeGee is NOT doing that a townie should be doing and we have ourselves a scum lynch.

Proceed to vote accordingly please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I remember that game. I am also still trying to forget it.

Your vote would be appreciated on the VeeGee wagon. We have cookies.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You have my sword, bow, and axe.

But whatcha think about Mala/notsci?

Are they really this scummy as town? Because whoa.

I have a lot of trouble reading Mala - our play-styles clash horribly. I should probably be concerned that I'm not scum reading her but that can wait for another day.

I don't get your read on NS at all though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

ok fine,then explain why you awere ok with Zakk avoiding Axle's "argument" up until the point he did.

and

How do you feel about his answer that it was for reactions?

I don't really think anything of Zakk 'avoiding' to answer.

I think reactions is a weak answer.

BBT associate useless with scum and if they are town he just goes *well they were useless*

Pretty much this. Clearing town of dead-weight is just as important as lynching scum. It's even better when said dead-weight actually has a decent chance of flipping scum.

Indeed
which is a scum strategy, most of the times i have seen it.

Nah, it's pro-town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

yeah i'm not gonna do this

Why not? Makes me think your request was not genuine.

I don't find you particularly town. I could make a case on you

I'd like to see this case.

I ask for people's scum games when I have reason to believe I might be misreading them.

What made you think you might be misreading me? And if you were, why did you not do the meta-dive you requested and I refused?

i can understand why he wants to lynch useless. my notes, in fact, say that i should lynch you sooner rather than later, but later that was superseded by a strong town read

so, count your blessings because you're pretty useless yourself, and lynching useless people is a GOOD thing

Sorry, what? How is Axle 'useless'?

So if me, axle, shiro, singer, notscience, and mala are all town

That narrows down the game quite a bit

Your read on NS is all over the place. In fact, your reads have been all over the place the entire game. Maybe it's time for you to listen to somebody else (like me and vote VeeGee?)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Maxwell

I'm ready when y'all are

L-1 btw. Declare intent before hammering

What? This vote is terrible.

Also, Maxwell is town. Like, his posting all over page 19 just screams town. Time to take a look that wagon me thinks.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Still waiting for people to start voting scum (VeeGee).

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTECOUNT 1.05

(5)

MaxwellPuckett

—

singersigner, notscience, Metal Sonic, Shiro, ika, [Zakk]

MS, ika and Zakk are by far and away the worst votes on this wagon.

Ika, can you just clarify why you're voting Maxwell for me please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Btw Bbt do you have anything else on VeeGee other than lurksack of none existance?

Sure, check out my recent posting w/ regards to VeeGee.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, Scorpious is also scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Beetlejuice.

Man, I wish I had two votes.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not sure but I'm not leaving my VeeGee wagon to try and start a new one.

Scorpious can wait until Tomorrow.

You should probably vote VeeGee before you leave though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Prodge.

Will get to this later today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Prodge.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I did.

I haven't read properly since around post 500 so, yeah, a lot to catch up on but I don't think I'm gonna bother because my reads were not very good.

I don't see Mala as scum with Maxwell.

Zakk is prob a good shout - or maybe Shiro.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

MS, what are you doing?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I doubt it.

We should run him up/lynch him to find out though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nice.

VOTE: MS

I can do this.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Problem Singer?

MS, you wanna start posting something substantial? I will PL you and you know it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Zakk, you could never lynch me.

Scorpious, since when have you been town reading me that hard and for what reason?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scorpious is a good shout for scum as well - keep forgetting about him.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You don't think scum 'try' to lynch someone?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Like, why is my effort town effort and not scum effort?

I'm surprised I haven't come under heavy fire Today - I was town reading the shit out of Maxwell when he got lynched.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You didn't answer the first question.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you explain scum read on Mala please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Maxwell's push on Mala and the back and forth between them is not scum-scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT-Do you feel that anyone's behavior has changed since the encryptor flip?

I haven't read since post 505 - is there something you're wanting me to look at?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think it should be pretty obvious that I want VeeGee lynched, though. If not him, then Malakittens.

Mala in his top two lynch choices - no reason to do this as scum on scum on D1.

Oh, right, and singer, do we actually agree about Mala? I think zakk's play has been a lot better than theirs. If VeeGee is always like this, and I'll check them out tomorrow, I'd rather move my vote over to Mala.

Reaching out to Singer - a strong presence in the game - to try and start a push on Mala.

Metal Sonic is a better lynch, I'm still waiting for him to weigh in on.. everything. A better lynch than Sonic, but a worse lynch than Shiro, is Malakittens.

Still wanting to lynch Mala. Mala is always present in his top people to lynch. If Mala was under pressure or under threat of being lynched, I could see this being scum-scum. But he has no motivation to try and drive a wagon on one of his buddies who is under no pressure on D1.

Malakittens: Okay, I'm sorry I'm insulting you. Did I say your play was stupid? I don't think I did, I just think that what you've been doing looks scummy to me. Don't take it personally. I think I've explained why I want to see what Sonic will do here. I haven't seem him do this as town or scum tbh, so I just wanna wait until he responds.

This doesn't feel scum-scum either - I don't think scum!Mala reacts to one of her buddies in the way that she did.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why do you think she is scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, I see what you're saying but I'm not sure why that makes her scum? I have seen Mala lash out plenty of times at numerous people and I don't think I have ever seen her flip scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mod, I'm voting Metal Sonic.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thoughts on the game Scorpious?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sure.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mala, why you moving off of MS?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What makes you think Ika will be more likely to happen?

Why do you think Ika is scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ika, I'm surprised you're not accusing me of being scum.

You know, with my lack of activity and all.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't know who you're talking about NS?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So Ika is town reading Mala based on meta and you're scum reading Mala based on meta?

That sounds fun...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Ika

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And you both understand how hard it would be to convince people that you're right because, you know, you're both using the same reasoning but coming to different conclusions?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right, but both cases hinge on meta which is too subjective.

PEdit - Mala, NS can usually read you pretty accurately, no? Why do you think he has got it wrong?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VeeGee was prob a counter-wagon to Maxwell. I doubt we were running two scum up...although that does make me wonder why the VeeGee wagon never picked up.

PEdit - NS, I don't think being defensive is scummy.

She should probably respond to the second point - that's scummy.

How is she discrediting people pushing her? Can you quote examples for me?

They are mostly scum indicative. With exception of being defensive.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, can see where you're coming from there.

Mala, do you have any response for NS?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh and VeeGee is also a townread.

How is VeeGee a town read?

My initial reads haven't changed all that much because I'm still learning how to hunt. Although there has been some movement in my list.

What movement? What has changed and why?

EBWOP (of sorts) 926

The get off Max and onto VeeGee was

way stronger than I posted

. (apparently my memory was better than my fact finding)

@Max I still don't get it Iike, your townread on zakk but you seem to be legit about it

(note i got reminded of that by reading 770 which is a +ve for shodow.)

So Shiro got right off Max508(seem legit) and was satisfied, and comes storming back for a quick hammer...
(and the reason is to avoid anything less certain happening...)
yeah

No.
TMI.

This was my primary reason for thinking Shiro could be scum. I'm liking her responses to you so far though so I'm not entirely convinced.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE: Shiro

Queen Singer! The meter reports that Shiro is radiating dangerous levels of towniness! Do we abort, your highness?

Thoughts on Scorpious?

I will lynch:

shaddowez
Malakittens
Metal sonic

In that order

Thoughts on Scorpious?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Scorpious

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You can start by answering one of my recent questions?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You said there was movement in your list - if it was nothing significant then why mention it? It's a very generic 'Hey, look at me, my reads are changing because of the new information provided' but what you post doesn't actually say anything specific or tell us where you're at in the game.

Why do you think Zakk is scum? I mean, if your whole reasoning boils down to that one post (which isn't scummy) then it's pretty weak.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: shiro

Bbt you're playing odd. Your are on my list to sort next :p

I am? What's odd?

Can we not do the whole 'clog thread with random shit' please? Like, you have PMs, site-chat, skype, whatever you like; there is no need for it in thread when we're halfway through a game. /rant

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah hit me up with that. This last season well the half I saw was my fav ^^

Elizabeth Mitchell 'Yo >.>

Game related?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why am I off Mala?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Do you think it's alignment indicative?

I'm not sure I agree I've been passive but let's see where this goes.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh, I might do later.

You're pretty scummy though and should eat rope very quickly.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Zakk, you interested in lynching Scorpious?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because I'm doing things.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Zakk, get back in here.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yay, let's get this wagon rolling.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why is Scorpious town Shiro?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, so what has he done that has pinged you as 'right'?

Because at the moment it sounds like you#re describing a null read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh, what has he done to make him null town and not just null?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Prodge.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't know what's happening in this game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Cool, can we lynch Scorpious then?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't think I want to.

I also don't mind you being lynched.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I will do eventually, though as you say, it seems somewhat pointless.

I don't think I have a chance of driving that wagon so I might just lynch you instead.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I just told you - I don't think I have the presence or the town cred needed to drive a wagon by myself.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

There is no way I get killed - I'm not in this game at all.

Nah, even if I gave it the other day, it wouldn't get the followers. Sometimes, you just have to accept the game state is not ready to accept a new wagon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What part of it is scum behaviour?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, you do.

You can't drive wagons without town cred and/or game presence - that's pretty basic.

I know I'm not going to die so I can just do it tomorrow.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

There is - it's a waste of a lot of time and a lot of effort.

We can keep going around in circles if you like - are you voting Shiro?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm actively lurking calling people scum with 0 reasons that I might reveal post game.

I'm not withholding information - I'm telling you I will share it. Just not today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not important in this game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Indeed.

Now what?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why does it bug you Shiro?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, I have briefly addressed it in my ISO.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, that's the one.

Now keep those comments in mind and read Scorpious' ISO.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can we get a VC please Mod?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Not a single counter wagon. Well, that's worrying.

NS joining Mala on the wagon feels all kinds of wrong. What is going on here...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We should lynch Scorpious today.

Shiro, you should join for self preservation.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scorpious, you're scum.

You have barely stated a solid opinion all game. When you do state an opinion it's fence-sitty and generally goes with the flow of the game. Also, your comments are very generic, like they don't tell us anything.

Let me see if I can grab something real quick.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, I can hammer you if you want Shiro.

I really don't mind.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thank you Mala, you have given me something to chew on..

Just from a very quick skim...

What is the point of this post Scorpious? What did you 'chew on'? What did you learn? Did you have anything useful to share?

Also, not long ago you were pretty sure I was town. What happened?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't answer to scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm pretty sure I haven't dodged any questions though...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, but you followed a scum read onto a wagon.

Sooo, it's not the same.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I see.

Mala is still on the wagon though soooo...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Like, it just doesn't make much sense. I would think you would join most wagons but not the wagon that your biggest scum read is on.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scorpious NS.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Shiro

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mala, I'm not.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You should jail me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What are you doing Mala?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, you're not.

Did you jail me?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What is there to resolve?

Ika, you know I'm not scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think Mala should explain what she is doing.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oooohhhhhhh interesting!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Not if MS has a guilty on Zakk, no.

Otherwise, yes.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Scorpious

Did you really try to kill me out of everyone in this game? Wtf...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT-are you still interested in a wagon on me?

Worried? What motivation is there behind this question?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If Scorpious isn't scum and Mala jailed me I don't know what's going on in this game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't get how your claim clears up confusion?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Like, I'm not even sure what MS was looking for.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right, I'm not acting like it makes sense. I'm just as shocked as you that someone tried to kill me.

I'm telling you I'm not scum. So if Mala jailed me then scum has to be Scorpious. Nobody else in this game would kill me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because no killing would be extremely bad for scum.

They just kill Mala. It's that simple.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scorpious, I swear to God I'm not moving my vote off of you Today.

The only way it moves is if Mala didn't jail me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's funny that you think I'm scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can we not fucking lynch me?

Seriously, back the fuck off.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Cool.

Lynch Scorpious after my flip.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What took you so long to vote Scorpious?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thanks for modding Fro99er! Really good effort considering it's your first time as well!

WP town, good game. Singer on fire again.