Mini Normal 1716 - Flavourless Mafia - [Game Over]

[Cavane]

Sorry for showing up a bit late to the party, all. Had a busy weekend/Labor Day.

Anyway, after reviewing the thread up to now I agree with the sentiment that Bacde could use some more pressure. At the very least, I find his early aggro-ness a bit offputting.

vote: Bacde

.

[Cavane]

Its not going to go anywhere fyi

Last game we lost since town was fighting me hard as hell

We lost because when I said for all of town to unvote because we were being blitzed, some town members did not unvote

I am a powerful player banana, watch out when you play with fire

I haven't even stoked my flame yet Banana, you clearly don't even remember the beginning of our 1 game together in which my play was pretty much similar, why not go back and read how I began our last game together?

This post, and this line in particular was what I mean by aggro. Maybe 'acerbic' is a better word for it. The veiled threat just seemed unnecessary, and a rather over-the-top response to what banana actually said.

[Cavane]

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I'd still like to hear what Bacde has to say in response to your (now repeated) question for him.

[Cavane]

Fair enough question. The only other person that's stood out to me was Guyett with that early Desperado 'roleclaim'. If it had happened later in the game, I'd have seen it as a scummy attempt to derail or distract from a legit discussion. But since it was just during RVS, I let it go. He hasn't really interacted with anyone though, so it's hard to say more at this point.

[Cavane]

? I already responded

I didn't realize that was your response. But if you just don't want people to vote for you, that begs the same question of why behave so unpleasantly? That was a big part of why I did vote for you.

Anyway, I'd also like to hear your reasoning for both myself and muffin. In particular you said you felt one of the two of us was scum. Why not both of us?

[Cavane]

All posts are beautiful in their own way.

Bacde, what do you mean, you'll go back to you never-explaining-your-vote ways? So far you've made 1 vote with no explanation, and one OMGUS vote. And you have yet to give any reasoning for your suspicion concerning myself and Muffin.

[Cavane]

Are you sure? I'm counting 6 votes on him.

[Cavane]

This Barcode wagon realllllly smells like scum is all over it.

That wagon has 6 votes, so at least half of the members are town. I don't think the wagon was that scummy, Bacde is just behaving like an asshole and pissing people off. That being said, I will

unvote

, mostly because his most recent posts have a ring of sincerity to them. I don't agree with everything he said, but I think he was being genuine. Muffin is right though, you were asked repeatedly by myself and others for an explanation.

vote: Guyett

. Nothing he's said or done thus far is helpful to the town.

[Cavane]

Kaiser I have a slight scum read on, mostly due to him being rather lurky. Guyett's reasoning for trying to prevent the wagon on him is also pretty poor, IMO.

[Cavane]

What reason did I give against having a wagon on myself?

I meant on Kaiser. Sorry, the way I said that was ambiguous.

[Cavane]

You are going to hammer me? Lol ok

I was just trying to converse with you but if you want to confirm yourself as mafia go ahead and hammer me haha

I think you're down to 4 now anyway. =P

[Cavane]

So much drama in this game. =/

[Cavane]

May I ask why you aren't voting on him then? And do you still find Bacde scummy?

Bacde is just behaving like an asshole and pissing people off. That being said, I will unvote, mostly because his most recent posts have a ring of sincerity to them. I don't agree with everything he said, but I think he was being genuine.

And I'm not voting on Kaiser because I find Guyett scummier. At this point though, I'm really not sure what to think. The whole pissing contest I feel like is a null tell. It looks entirely too personal for alignment to have come into it.

[Cavane]

Agreed with LZ. I am okay with removing banana's slot.

Unvote, Vote: Banana

.

[Cavane]

Sorry as well. I think the concern with Mick was the rapid pace of votes without much discussion. I'm interested in hearing what he has to say.

Vote: Mick

[Cavane]

If I had to pick one, I'd say 3rd party but that's mainly due to the lack of tells either way. Which is why I'd like to hear something of substance from him. And the SK was confirmed, or at least implied, by the 9:3:1 setup, so I wasn't particularly surprised by two deaths. It is a little disheartening that they were all townies, and one of them with a power. I do think the Bacde kill was mostly likely from scum targeting an experienced player.

[Cavane]

Hey CDB! I think I remember playing with you from a while back. Glad you could join us.

[Cavane]

@Kyubey - As it's more important to find SK today

@Vedith: Why do you say this? I'm more of a mind with CDB that we need the SK's help at this point.

[Cavane]

Well, that's weird. Why is the only person directly engaging with the replacement's catch-up and reads the person he's voting for, saying only "well, it would get in the way if I defended myself"? I can't play this game by myself, guys.

Yeah, the activity this Day has been pretty abysmal. I did take note of the remark though. Don't really like it, but I'm not ready to change my vote, at least not until Mick says something of value.

[Cavane]

4 posts from 3 people all Saturday? This isn't looking good. =/

[Cavane]

Hi, RadiantCowbells!

Although this time you're wrong about me, I'm still happy to see you here. This means, everyone, the stall is over!

We can only hope. There are still a ton of inactive players.

[Cavane]

I'm here. If the mod desires to replace me I'll be happy to step aside. I just got distracted waiting for the other replacements to arrive and got out of the habit if checking in. I'm at lunch now, but I'll catch up when I get home this afternoon and give my reads/responses.

[Cavane]

102 is massively opportunistic. They just immediately come into the game and their first vote is conveniently on the largest wagon. Justification in 108 is weaksauce, makes no sense whatsoever that bacde saying he's "a powerful player" is aggro/offputting - it's maybe annoying, but the idea it'd be worthy of a vote is ridiculous.

112 adds nothing to the dicussion, it's just a waffly non-opinion on guyett's dumb fakevig. He says it stood out, but then doesn't have an actual read on it, which raises the question of why it actually stood out if he has no opinion.

116 and 151 are both overly questioning. I feel like it's a scum thing to ask too many questions to appear engaged in the game without actually contributing anything. They're also heavily pressuring bacde, in a way that looks a lot more like scum trying to grill someone rather than actual town inquisitiveness. "why behave so unpleasantly?" doesn't even really feel game-relevant, cavane seems to have used it like it's some indicator of scumminess which is ridiculous. "why can't both of us be scum?" is such a ridiculous question to ask and I'm not sure why town would ask it at all. He also asks for bacde'sd reasoning but doesn't seem to care too much, there's no insistence or follow-up at all.

reasoning for voting guyett in 182 I also don't like, statement that "Nothing [Guyett]'s said or done thus far is helpful to the town." is insanely vague and fairly ridiculous. Thought guyett to that point was fairly town, but regardless of that, if you're going to single out someone as being "not helpful" why guyett of all people? There's a million people lurking their asses off, and he's the one being not helpful? Follows it up with saying in 187 that "Guyett's reasoning for trying to prevent the wagon on him is also pretty poor", which is also vague as hell and doesn't actually explain why he thinks it's poor.

Then, he posts essentially nothing but filler until showing up to make an INCREDIBLY CONVENIENT vote for banana in 306. This is blatant, bold-faced opportunism. puts him at L-1 with his only comment being "I am okay with removing banana's slot" wwithout ever exlaining WHY. It's voting on the largest wagon with flimsy reasoning, this vote in and of itself was more or less a scumclaim.

Vote on mick in 345 is similarly terribad, mick was a wagon with some momentum, and all he says is "I'm interested in hearing what he has to say". That's the third time Cavane makes a sheepy wagon vote with a tiny, crappy little reason attached to it. He's made one original vote that was barely justified. He looks a lot like someone who's just going along with lynches because he can.

347 is filler and I don't like the way he laments both deaths being town - it feels like a "look at me I'm so town" type statement, where most people aren't really going to concern themselves too much with the deaths.

And then again, from there, nothing but straight filler.

There's a lot of terrible lurkers in this game, Cavane takse top of the list for me though just because all his votes have been so opportunistic.

Starting with my response to this.

I later admitted that my initial vote on bacde was more due to me disliking his style than actual scumtells. I actually had a pretty good feeling he was town by the end of the day, which is why I backed off of questioning him. I have no clue why you think it was ridiculous to ask why Muffin and I couldn't both be scum. Bacde had repeatedly stated that he felt strongly that one or the other of us was scum. He specifically stated one us two. If he had scumtells on both of us, why would it be one of us two? I felt that was a pretty natural question to ask.

What needs explaining about my statement on Guyett? But since you insist, at the time I made that post, his play had consisted entirely of a trollclaim during RVS and, as you call them, filler posts. Unhelpful. Since you're scumreading me for similar reasons, I'm not sure why you disagree with me there.

As for the banana vote, there's really not much to say. Your predecessor voted just before me based on Banana pretty much ruining his slot for whoever would have replaced him. As stated in my vote post, I agreed with that. I felt we had gained everything of value we were going to out of Day 1, but that we might learn something from banana's death, even if he wasn't scum. Unfortunately that wasn't the case.

Overall, I'm really not buying your case on me. According to you, a town player isn't allowed to bandwagon. I submit that bandwagons are one of the most effective ways of getting information.

[Cavane]

I really like CDB's reads, and not just because he realizes I'm town. The argument about Muffin's interest in PRs is especially valid, I think.

I'm satisfied with Mick getting re-engaged with the game, and at this point I have no room to talk.

I really don't like Anen's claim. I can't be totally certain, but my gut feel is that there aren't masons in this game. I don't have a ton of experience here though, so I may be out to lunch on that. But moreover, I don't understand why he would claim at this point. However, it does basically clear him of being the SK, so there's that.

CDB - I think you were way too fast to vote Vedith based on his assumption of scum having daytalk. Isn't that pretty common?

[Cavane]

Why, oh why did these give me the feeling that Cavane was trying to rolefish here?
Since the Vedith-wagon doesn't seem to move, I could join lynching him.

I'm not. How does anything I said indicate that I want more people to claim? I think the mason claim, if true, was a bad move. I certainly don't want us to compound it.

[Cavane]

fuzzy might actually be town tbh

remember when cavane said he'd catch up then dropped a big ol' stinker pair of posts where he spends most of his time defending himself then drops soime weak crap non-reads

Remember when I said I'd post and then posted? Just because you didn't like what I had to say doesn't mean you get to be dick about it. You can think I'm scum all you want, but at least be civil about it. It's a fucking game man, we're here to have fun.

Can more people weigh in on the mason claim? I'd like to hear some more opinions.

[Cavane]

Guess I was wrong about there not being masons. I think Cowbells is placing a bit too much weight on EV's D1 freakout. It's not good certainly, but it felt like a genuine new player freakout to me. If it was calculated (as you seem to think) what was the purpose? I could see scum try something like that to alleviate suspicion after hammering. But he didn't actually hammer.

Unvote.

Gonna do another review later tonight and put my vote somewhere useful.

[Cavane]

Oh, Performer is Kyubey's slot? I've really lost track of who's replaced whom but, if Muffinslot is a claimed mason, then I absolutely 100% definitively want to lynch Kyubeyslot.

UNVOTE: Inanity
VOTE: Performer

As I mentioned earlier, I'm not convinced on the Fuzzy/EV case, but I think I could get behind Kyubey/Performer. Let me doublecheck the votes...

[Cavane]

Okay, I have Performer at L-2 currently.

Vote: Performer

. Now he's L-1.

It should go without saying, but please give him a chance to respond/claim before hammering.

[Cavane]

Feel free to doublecheck me. With your unvote, Performer should be back at L-2.

[Cavane]

Yeah, you've made that pretty clear. You're wrong, but I don't think I can convince you of that today. I also don't think you have enough support to make me claim today, especially at this late stage.

[Cavane]

Rapidly approaching 12 hours, people.

[Cavane]

Probably just going to hammer before the night's over

You should. Letting him claim doesn't include letting time expire.

[Cavane]

Alright, I think it's pretty evident that one of Fuzzy and RC is scum and the same applies to CMM and Vedith. Given the length of time that those votes have been on, if either pair were both town, scum could have easily won by now, and scum have very little reason to bus one of their own with the current numbers being what they are. I'm leaning towards RC and Vedith as scum, but I honestly don't have any strong reads right now. Gonna do a more thorough reread over the weekend and hopefully get a better take on things.

[Cavane]

Ah, you're right. Disregard my last.