MINI 1721 — ✌ — GAME OVER

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Bins

I made one of those pick anythings during the marathon thing. I wanted to paly it D:

[RadiantCowbells]

RC is basically confirmed town at this point and should be treated as such.

[RadiantCowbells]

Because when scum withhold information they don't reveal that they're doing so.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, but scum don't often make such posts because it draws negative attention.

Town are more likely to deliberately make anti-town actions because they aren't thinking about how they're viewed in the same manner.

[RadiantCowbells]

We're switching over to Little Cup rules for this game.

That leaves Annie and Misdreavus, and oh look Misdreavus is banned so I instantly win.

Thanks for playing guys!

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Bellaphant

I'm pretty sure this slot is scum. Nakeed votes, general scum attitude towards the game. Lynch it please!

You're cute, i like you ^_^ Do you want to be friends?

We can be friends!

I might have to lynch you if you're scum though. No hard feelings?

[RadiantCowbells]

why are we still making jokes


unless this isn't a joke

I like making jokes.

I remember almost marrying RadiantCowbells.

Hi, GIF.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's too early in the game. I don't like to try to read people at this point in the game.

When I'm feeling something, I'll start pushing something.

For now, I'm just going to do what I'm doing. Just look above you; if it's something that can be stopped, then just try to stop it!

[RadiantCowbells]

I need to hide my undying love for Layla, and I'm town.

[RadiantCowbells]

RC, why did you in this game with me? I hope to not piss you off this time (I didn't mean to last time either, and I apologized but you didn't accept. I'm still sorry about it and I think you'll see I've learned from it).

Well, I accept your apology.

Mafia is a game that creates vitriol and anger and you were unfortunately assigned to a role that generates massive amount of toxicity to players around them. I personally will never add masons to one of my setups again because of how frequently I've seen the Mason, IC, and Friendly Neighbour roles not only act in an anti-town fashion but also ruin the game for the townies around them by expecting the game to be centralized around what they want to do regardless of the strength of their scumhunting or arguments. Funnily enough, between you, myself, and NM, we have problematic examples of all of the above's interactions with games. Or at least, that's my opinion.

I've played IC and completely ruined the game myself, I realize how the psychology around them works, both myself and the person I was replacing had generated strong antipathy from the town at large, and despite myself calling all 3 of the scum I guess I wasn't convincing enough.

I'm just over that game. I don't really hold grudges unless others choose to hold grudges with me, and in (some) cases I understand why they do.

We've all been there, Fro99er.

I've even listed it in the "Facepalm of this post award."

Been where?

jokes
but
comment on stuff

The way I play the game is not conducive to the standard read things, comment, and discuss playstyle.

I am absolutely reading what people post and will absolutely follow up if I am sold on someone else's arguments, but I don't tend to start arguing myself until I'm fairly certain someone's scum.

P-edit STOP POSTING PLS.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm also sorry for blowing up at you in the same game.

I sometimes take the game way too seriously and that was one of those times.

Sorry

[RadiantCowbells]

@RadiantCowbell: It seems like a weird question but what did you have in mind when Metal Sonic requested 1v1 on you?

I thought he was referring to league of legends.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why am I not confirmed town

I hates you FOREVER!

[RadiantCowbells]

I'd suck her thumb.

[RadiantCowbells]

Try "this guy is scum cuz RC said so."

[RadiantCowbells]

What if there was an infinite shot multiple action per night reviver that reflexively self targeted and thus it was impossible to kill people?

[RadiantCowbells]

Did you change your avi to Annie?

[RadiantCowbells]

RadiantCowbells - He's here but literally not doing anything with subpar "I don't read early" excuse. Last time I played with town RC he was acting nothing like this.

I never said I don't read early, I said I don't push for lynches early.

I assure you, I am reading and understanding... everything.

[RadiantCowbells]

Annie

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright, so I've been thinking this through.

If everyone could have one flip right now what would it be?

[RadiantCowbells]

Ike for president!

[RadiantCowbells]

Probably Luna Wolf.

I think jumping onto me at this time is pure unabashed opportunism; I've done things that justify voting me, but nothing that should really indicate me as scum.

I'm a safe vote, in other words.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Metal Sonic

Town has no reason to claim scum.

This is bullshit logic that assumes that every actions is solely based on it's viability towards achieving a win.

Much of the stuff that most players do is utterly independent of the pursuit of victory; this is a social game.

Even scumbums try to have fun.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: VeeGee

And I said hey, hey HEY!

What a wonderful kind of day!

You can learn to run and play!

And get along with each other....

[RadiantCowbells]

That's an awfully capacious vocabulary you have there.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not voting you for not posting, I'm voting you because you're scum.

@RC Why didn't you acknowledge that until like 15 pages later?
I personally believe that making up fake scumtells just to keep your main a secret would be dumb, and it seems like you didn't even care that much about keeping it secret

Because I can take GIF seriously enough on an intellectual level to explain why he's wrong and it was brought back into my mind by his quotation of it.

When I originally saw it from just a random person who I didn't know anything about I read it and decided welp this person's opinions on the gamestate are absolutely worthless and I should ignore them the rest of the game.

pedit: you're a scumbum.

[RadiantCowbells]

"Policy" rarely hits scum and on the occasions it does there's often strong indicators outside of the policy that the person is scum.

Short of someone writing a bot to prod dodge every 48 hours and refusing to respond to interaction I find no reason to even consider lynching on policy, or even voting aside from as a nudge to get someone to engage.

I have always considered the education of new scumgirls and scumboys to be of vital importance. Every scummer of Mafiascum has brought something new to the weighty task of sifting through players for scum, and that is as it should be, for without progress there will be stagnation and decay. There again, lynches for antitownness's sake must be discouraged, for our tried and tested scumhunting traditions often require no tinkering. Let us move forward, then, into a new era of VCA, reading for emotion, and holding people accountable, intent on preserving what ought to be preserved, perfecting what needs to be perfected, and pruning wherever we find practices, such as policy lynches, that ought to be prohibited.

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

Actually it's 50/50, because of the chance of town doing said move and chance of scum doing said move are equal.

It only looks like it rarely hits scum because well, how many times have you actually seen policy lynch going through successfully?

Exactly.

(fun fact: the last time I started with exact same reason for 'policy' push, the target was scum.)

50/50? Shouldn't that be #scum / #town?

Can't get a method of scumhunting that's better than picking a name out of a hat?

• Fixed quote tags. -mq

[RadiantCowbells]

You can't feel ghost types anyway.

Lynch all liars.

[RadiantCowbells]

I want it understood that if I'm lynched this game, I want to be lynched as the first lynch of the day and have unrestricted decision making over day's second lynch.

Between the people I know and the people that I don't, I feel that my lynch is definitely going to eventually happen and I want to be able to bring at least one scum down with me.

[RadiantCowbells]

But, do you think that you're eminently qualified to judge whether my pick is going to hit scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Happy to see him gone regardless of alignment.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Bins

This is good too!

[RadiantCowbells]

I wouldn't have had to vote switch to bins OR nm if it weren't for comments like that.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Veegee

My desire to lynch people who may end up voting me is far weaker than my desire to lynch obvscum.

[RadiantCowbells]

If she does, that makes me extremely happy and renews my interest in maintaining our friendship.

[RadiantCowbells]

Apparently a lot of people still think I'm a she because of my avatar.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't like the NM lynch at all.

Why u no lynch VG

[RadiantCowbells]

just lynch veegee christ.

[RadiantCowbells]

everyone whose votes I care about knows that NM was town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I sorta wanna do Davsto too but he's voting VeeGee with me and that makes me highly reluctant to vote him.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh right, that's funny because this mod is actually known for doing Vengefuls. I didn't even notice.

Any last words, Davsto?

[RadiantCowbells]

Why do you think that I'm going to?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: VeeGee

Apparently I have to re vote.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sorry VeeGee but there's no way you can avoid the key scumhunting of RC, Private Eye.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, too bad your mafia game clearly isn't at a level where you could hide from my amazing reads.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ongoing game related MS :c

[RadiantCowbells]

just pick a different annie pic.

[RadiantCowbells]

Whatchu gonna do VG, huh?

Can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen mmk?

[RadiantCowbells]

I note that you did not deny that I caught you, you scum butt.

[RadiantCowbells]

I also note that you're no match for the supreme scumhunting of Radiant C. Owbellheimer, the supreme hunter of the allied townforces in Mafiaville.

[RadiantCowbells]

Liar.

[RadiantCowbells]

I had absolutely nothing to do with the NM lynch, and in fact publicly stated that I thought he was town.

[RadiantCowbells]

omg that's so cute send the full picture to me

[RadiantCowbells]

annie <3

[RadiantCowbells]

Do you even play league though?

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright, I was honestly pushing VeeGee for reactions.

This is scum for realsies.

VOTE: Davsto

[RadiantCowbells]

I've felt that way for a while but I think the scum is more likely to be Davsto.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't townread Ricastle.

Dav is scum and is the only thing I'm voting today.

[RadiantCowbells]

I will unconditionally not vote MS as long as his avatar is Annie.

[RadiantCowbells]

Your picture's so adorable. <3

[RadiantCowbells]

Annie's way too cute to lynch.

That's just facts.

[RadiantCowbells]

I can't find denmark mafia.

[RadiantCowbells]

Greetings Ank.

I'm town this time!

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll believe that Annie isn't the cutest thing in the whole world when I see it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sorry about Davsto, he seemed so defeatist that I thought he was scum for that reaction

:\

[RadiantCowbells]

The Annie avi is simply way too adorable for me to even contemplate lynching her.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm so rattled about Davsto's town flip that I can't really get my bearings anymore.

[RadiantCowbells]

Is it just me or does Ankamius's avatar slightly change every once in a while?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Luna

This seems best atm, I'm not quite sure where to go.

[RadiantCowbells]

I like the idea of sorting Ankamius.

I'd expect him to be pressuring me in some way, or at least making offhanded comments about how I shouldn't be getting ignored like he was doing all day in our last game.

[RadiantCowbells]

annie vs not adorable

annie wins

[RadiantCowbells]

No, because I scumread Luna.

You're reading way too far into my actions.

[RadiantCowbells]

ok. it.

[RadiantCowbells]

*facepalm*

well, at least we have confirmeed scum in the doc claims onw

[RadiantCowbells]

you gotta be kidding me...

[RadiantCowbells]

How is Luna still alive?

[RadiantCowbells]

stfu and vote Luna.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't get why Luna Wolf is still alive.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's purely an irrational decision to not want to double lynch.

Actually I'll tell you why Luna is still alive.

Many people are townreading Luna and you haven't done jack to convince them otherwise.

Their problem, not mine.

[RadiantCowbells]

absolutely nothing, thank you.

[RadiantCowbells]

Let's say that I'm right and Luna is in fact scum, and that you are town.

Why is it my responsibility to convince you of that fact? I already have my vote where I want it to be.

Why is it my job to give you a "reason" to work toward your own win condition?

[RadiantCowbells]

And so the appropriate response is to completely ignore what information I may or may not have until I give you a "reason"?

This goes both ways, you know.

[RadiantCowbells]

You guys might have been right about VeeGee ugh.

I really hope I didn't dismantle a scum wagon that I led.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you define "appropriate" as 'most likely to lead to victory', then no it isn't.

[RadiantCowbells]

You're still defining things outside of 'most likely to lead to victory.'

It was kind of Rob Hall to stay behind and try to help Doug Hansen, but his kindness lead to the unnecessary death of 2 men.

Virtue ethics has no place in 21st century philosophy.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hello me.

[RadiantCowbells]

You need to know that Luna is scum and BBM might be scum too.

[RadiantCowbells]

lunawolf lynch where!?/

[RadiantCowbells]

this makes me sad.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Ankamius

I think this is scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Ankamius

I think this is scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

To vote me makes you either fucking bad or scum.

I'm not going to try to decide which.

VOTE: Ankamius

[RadiantCowbells]

feel free to evolve past your bronze league mentality towards my play anytime soon.

[RadiantCowbells]

can't recommend that but go ahead.

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

I still fully scumread you, FYI luna.

[RadiantCowbells]

town does not win this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ankamius still could be scum but I think it's possible he's just confbiasing and derping so I'm going to go for the town win by voting

VOTE: Luna

[RadiantCowbells]

Congrats, you just lynched both my townreads.

I hope you're proud of yourselves.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Ankamius

Here's how we're going to do today.

I'm going to vote people and refuse to change my vote and because of that it's going to be impossible to lynch scum outside of my vote.

Therefore, we're going to lynch between those people or me until we either win or lose.

Maybe I'll be wrong but hey I can't be worse than you guys have been so far.

I'm not positive that my 100% scum is Ankamius yet but I'll risk it until I can think of something more definite.

[RadiantCowbells]

BBMolla has insufficient content for me to generate a read. Need more.

Ankamius has minimal content but a ton of it leans scum; particularly the fact that he hasn't put me under any pressure. In our first game together I got him lynched when he was the cop inno and the next one he was super paranoid about me and I still won. He would be all over me if he was town; like, he was throwing out comments every time someone said I had done something towny about how they shouldn't put stock in it because "RC can fake that."

Metal Sonic has me resigned to the fact that I can't read players like him and Boonskiies. He's being genuine but that may be entirely not alignment indicative because he may not be thinking of this as a scum game so much as a social activity so it's difficult for me to get any traction on the read.

Aristophanes is like eh because I want to think he's scum but there's so much against him being scum. There's definitely a passivity to his tone and play which I recognize as being incredibly similar to when he replaced into my slot in 1708; so much so that I'm surprised he didn't get under a lot more pressure in either game. However, I don't really know his town play so I don't have a read as strong as my Ank read. I also note that he replaced the Layla slot, and the way it replaced out was extremely town.

Luna Fox is still a very strong scumread but I want to go for Ankamius first for two reasons: 1) I feel like scum will already have made an effort to make her flip less alignment indicative on their behalves because of the length of time that I've been pushing her and 2) the fact that I'm still alive attests to either the scumteam badly underestimating what I'm going to do in LyLo or my reads being wrong. Either way, she can wait.

Bins is not a lynch candidate for me today.

[RadiantCowbells]

Our viable options are as follows.

We make 2 lynches today in 7p3 and 6p2, NK, and we lynch 4p1 and then if it's wrong we have a chance at 3p1.
We make 1 lynch today and NL at 7p3, make another lynch at 5p2, then NL and lynch again at 3p1.

If I'm not already a universal townread, by the time this becomes relevant I will be so I think the best strat in this case will be to try to hit two scum today.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm really not all that upset considering how long I've been trying to get a Luna lynch to no avail.

[RadiantCowbells]

If by some coincidence you're town, you basically doomed us the moment day started.

you lot basically doomed us all day yesterday by completely fucking ignoring my push on Luna and going off to lynch both of my biggest townreads.

[RadiantCowbells]

I spent an entire day trying to lynch Luna but didn't get fucking anything at all from it so I tried another tack.

If you guys collectively at least gave my push some credibility I'd have kept pushing it instead of going for one of my tertiary scumreads.

Surprised how easy that LyLo went day opens and im like "Oh look, town's already voting town, quick hammer is possible"

Surprised at how smug a lot of town were about discrediting my push on you yesterday.

[RadiantCowbells]

After how I was treated yesterday for trying to push Luna, I don't feel bad at all for being the reason we lost the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think you're forgetting how much effort was made, specifically by Ank and Gorkington, to deliberately antagonize me over my Luna scumread.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm done here. Later everyone!

[RadiantCowbells]

"threw a tantrum"

I tried lynching my main scumread, it didn't work, I lynched another of my scumreads.

My Ank read was wrong but given the situation and the fact that we were in LyLo I think it was only in towns best interest for me to try to force a 1v1, with the caveat that it would have been better if I forced it with Luna but I just wasn't sure if that would work with people's attitudes towards my Luna push.

[RadiantCowbells]

That's how I play, Akn. Very few of the tells I use are ones that I can just throw down in a post and explain to people and have them believe they're alignment indicative at all.

For example,

Hmm going through your ISO, that makes sense, ok

Unvote

was tantamount to a scumclaim in my eyes, but I'm not expecting anyone to see why I'd scumread that. Am I correct?

[RadiantCowbells]

She was overly agreeable with my scum reads and I could see people maneuvering around to indirectly start pushing me because of my push on her.

Both of these things make me want to lynch someone, but considering that all of the people maneuvering around it besides Bins were town it's not exactly going to sway you, was it?

[RadiantCowbells]

Lolwhat?

All I said was that I was surprised to still be alive and it made me want to push in another direciton.

I clearly said that both you were still a very strong scumread and that I was afraid that scum would be resigned to you getting lynched and those were my primary reasons, and on top of that I was also unwilling to force the 1v1 with you because I was afraid I was going to lose it.

I assure you if it's not immediately evident upon reading the game I would have been impossible to sway from my scumread on you.

Pointing out posts and asking people to analyze them again is a lot better than nothing at all.

Ok. If I ask you now to analyze that post, what do you find?

[RadiantCowbells]

I was already pissed at you because you were trying to discredit everything I was doing.

I was entirely not in the mood to try to sway your opinion, hence why we got into the philosophy debate.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean, devil's advocate here, isn't there a difference between discrediting someone who is wrong and discrediting someone who is right?

[RadiantCowbells]

That comparison only works if you were discredited for being right. You were discredited for not wanting to convince people that you were right.

I didn't want to convince others that I was right because I was already getting discredited, and by my townreads.

See how that works?

[RadiantCowbells]

There's thinking I was wrong and actively trying to discredit my entire playstyle.

I can handle people not believing me, but people attacking me because they don't believe me is something else.

[RadiantCowbells]

I called all 3 scum in Refraction, gave a very detailed analysis of why Thor in particular should literally be treated as confirmed scum, and got lynched and ignored for it.

Did you notice that 3 people, my slot's predecessor, myself, and the next lynch, were all frustrated by your play (not your skill, your manner of monopolizing town's efforts onto wagons on people for being anti-town) to the extent that my predecessor replaced out, I selfhammered and the last guy completely checked out of the game even though he was right about the scum he was trying to lynch for days?

[RadiantCowbells]

I have no issues whatsoever with your play in this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's not about the rightness of the reads though, I'm perfectly fine with people having misread Luna. The only person I fault for having incorrect reads is myself.

What I'm not so fine with is people giving me shit for scumreading someone when I ended up being right about it, and then giving me shit for being wrong about Ankamius.

The hypocrisy is amazing.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean, do people understand that my forcing a 1v1 is optimal play on LyLo?

While my reads were essentially ignored I was generally townread and by forcing a fight like that I make the lynch a 50/50 instead of a 42/58 because of the way LyLo dynamics work. In the end I was wrong and lost us the game, but I did it based on mathematically sound play.

Scum played well, deserved the win, etc. I don't mean to be a sore loser or discredit anyone based purely on their play at all; but I dislike the way two players conducted themselves and it led to me conducting myself in a similar manner, and if you want me to share more there's a lot better ways to do it than to tell me that I'm responsible for not changing your mind.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't recall ever being up in arms about either losing this game or about other people not voting Luna, but I do recall being up in arms about people attacking my playstyle because of either 1) their own actions or 2) because I "threw the game."

[RadiantCowbells]

Do you think that what I'm upset about is the fact that no one followed my Luna vote or do you think I'm upset that people gave me shit for trying to lynch Luna and accused me of throwing the game for town when in reality I had been voting scum for an entire day phase.

[RadiantCowbells]

vote: radiant

Oh...I read Even-night.

usuk.

feel free to be town anytime soon.

nah im okay. if youre going to play like that i can just votepark.

okay!
*polishes bronze medal*

among the many things i deem incredibly unconvincing:
dumb naked votes.

This is you trying to talk to me?

[RadiantCowbells]

Well, after the exchanges with you and Ankamius I absolutely did not want to.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm fairly sure that was long after I was already sick and tired of the game following the philosophy class with Ank and the quoted exchange with you.

People are entitled to be dicks, but I'm also entitled to explain why they're wrong.

[RadiantCowbells]

I didn't claim to be a victim, I said that my behaviour was what it was in a large part because of external factors. And that was after the exchange with Ankamius which was really the thing that pissed me off because I felt like he was preemptively blaming me for not changing his mind like he knew I was right.

I definitely agree that my behaviour wasn't it's best and that even with the information I had at the time there was a lot I should have done differently, but I also feel the need to point out that there's reasons behind me reacting like I did besides RC being mad because no one followed his luna vote.

RC, the fact that your entire argument basically hinges on you being right on Luna should really show how bad an argument it is.

Does it? I'm pretty sure my response to Ankamius holds water regardless of my being wrong or right.

[RadiantCowbells]

sure, I guess.

[RadiantCowbells]

that was pretty condescending, MS.

[RadiantCowbells]

If I asked for your advice I wouldn't care how it was presented.

If I didn't, well, y'know. Unasked for advice always comes across as condescending.