Mini 1752: Back to December (Game Over)

[MattP]

VOTE: LlamaFluff

[MattP]

This player list is good enough to skip RVS, right? Let's just wagon Llama because he would have obviously been the scumkill if he was town

[MattP]

Matt how many people here have you played with before? Is there a reason you're assuming everyone is familiar enough with Llama for that logic to apply?

I didn't expect this sort of resistance to a wagon that would break RVS

[MattP]

No, why would I care

[MattP]

My plan is foiled

[MattP]

Unless you can back up the logic, there's no reason to assume Llama would have been the N0 kill, so in my eyes wagoning him for that reason is really just an RVS wagon and saying it isn't is just bullcrap.

The point is why does it matter to you so much if it truly is or isn't RVS

You're not even scumhunting, you're just criticizing a non-existent wagon when no other wagons are currently happening

[MattP]

saying it isn't is just bullcrap.

So do you think it's scummy or are you just ripping it apart

[MattP]

I care because I want to know why you think it holds up so that I can understand you. I don't think it's scummy at the moment, I just think your logic has serious gaps to it.

My logic has serious gaps in it because I wasn't serious about it

[MattP]

Even if I thought someone was considered a universal town power player (and I do respect Llama as a player) I wouldn't fail to appreciate the WIFOMy nature of predicting NKs before any day discussion happened

[MattP]

It's stupid.

I'm on the fence on whether alchemist is being over-literal because that's his character or because he's stiff scum.

[MattP]

VOTE: Aj the Epic

It was just too easy of a vote for you, wasn't it

[MattP]

Aj just posted a the most reaching

paragraph

case (a paragraph on page 2 of the game) explaining why Alchemist is scum

This is one of those apt times to quote Chamber, "cases are scummy". That case was scummy.

[MattP]

None of the things he posted are even inherently scummy. The only legitimate argument for alchemist-scum is that he's trying to hard to look busy, but that could just be his nature. Everything Aj listed isn't alignment indicative.

[MattP]

Llama, do you feel under any pressure at being considered something as a 'town power player'?

Yeah Ocean, this is a silly question, but it's not as bad as that juicy double decker sandwich worth of BS Aj just served imo

[MattP]

Maybe I'm giving AJ too much credit but I thought he exaggerated on purpose to try to bring the game out of RVS.

We were already out of RVS, he didnt need to inundate us with reasons

[MattP]

Counterproductive is not the same thing as scummy

You think he's scummy because he didn't appreciate the routes presented to get us out of RVS? Him engaging me about that concern technically begins moving us out of RVS. And even so, it's so not a big deal if we leave RVS on page one or page 3, you're acting like it's so scummy if someone is counterproductive and you're not even considering the thing we are talking about here is a silly wagon that gets us out of RVS. He wasn't being unproductive about something like setup or NK spec, or something actually that important

[MattP]

Anyway I want alchemist to respond in his own words rather than buddying me for a vote on Aj

[MattP]

vote MattP

Marq dead? Matt votes Llama (because he should have been killed?).

Marq had your number in the last game we played together....possibly scared for a repeat.

Uh what? My number?

[MattP]

I think I like explicitly stated the part I didnt understand

"understand"

""UnDeRsTaNd"

[MattP]

When I'm scum I don't say anything because I'm scared shitless. Look up my meta of the last year. It's not WIFOMy, it's like an actual serious phobia, I wouldn't be posting content if I were scum

[MattP]

You made this argument at least once before as Town in a Blitz Game (Blitz 8.9), but you did so on Page 47. Why are you trying to make a similar argument here on Page 3?

This is a silly logical point. Why should I say it on page 47 and not on page 3?

[MattP]

And the scumhunting I did in porochaz's game sucked and barely lasted If you're going to meta me you can read the content of posts

[MattP]

Seems legit, guess he's totally Town guys! Pack it up!

You've never played with me before any know nothing about my play, why are you trying to discredit it? You've not even interacted with me or tried pursuing me up to this point

[MattP]

I don't get why being self-aware of meta is always so taboo in games. If I think my town and scum games are highly distinguishable and I'm town why would I not point it out? Why do I need to be coy about it?

[MattP]

Because you can easily use self-meta to make yourself look town if you're aware of it.

1) The meta I'm talking about is premised on my inability to do something as scum that I do as town, so even if I wanted to emulate my town play as scum my point is that I've failed to do so in all my games in over the past year probably 2
2) Even if that were true that wouldn't make it alignment indicative for someone to be aware of their meta

[MattP]

Tkoe literally just said that what I posted wasn't scummy but explained why he couldn't use it to get a TOWNtell on me..and then voted me? How does that make sense?

[MattP]

By all means, point it out. But ask yourself this,

lets say you magically got much better at lying as a Scum player, would you perhaps consider doing precisely this to throw the scent off?

I've not played with you, as you so rightly pointed out, so I can't be sure how many levels of meta you can express. Therefore it'd be a total waste of time to put any stock in your statement,

the fact that you are so desperately defending it now though... That I can read plenty into, and I don't like what I'm reading.

VOTE: TKOE

You're unfamiliar with my meta but grant me that I could truly a bad scum player but rationalize that I could be scum because I could have "magically got much better at lying" and am "desperately" defending myself bringing up meta. People are engaging me about the fact that I had brought up meta and criticizing its merit and calling it scummy - you expect me to not engage people about a reason they're scumreading me? How is that desperate? You're trying so hard to make me fit the bill for a scum read

[MattP]

How is it OMGUS?

[MattP]

I feel like the word OMGUS should be made illegal

[MattP]

@Matt; why did you feel the need to bring up your self-meta when you did? It seems pretty unrelated to what CKD was saying about you.

It was in response to Elyse, and it wasn't a highly calculated transition. Elyse said I was caught as scum in a previous game, and the first place I went in my mind was, "Matt's scum game = X"

[MattP]

Sorry for the lack of posting guys. I'm feeling really sick and sweating at night, not sure what that means yet.

@Mod, I'll be V/LA for a couple of days.

Do u have a fever?

[MattP]

That would be against the rules but if you do then you should see a foc because night sweats and fever can be bad

[MattP]

Doc*

[MattP]

No, it is the point. Your argument is that you lurk as scum and that you are not lurking in this game and therefore you are not scum. Page 3 is far too early to make a determination on whether you are prone to lurking in this game as opposed to page 47.

So I guess we'll reconvene on page 47 and see if I'm still not lurking

[MattP]

I'm liking petroleum's spiciness this game

[MattP]

I have some solid townreads considering it's only page 5

[MattP]

I'll be on tomorrow, today was an insane day

[MattP]

Supreme's recent posting seems pretty transparently like he's actually thinking about the game and looks like pretty fluid scumhunting. I don't get your scumread on him at all other than you just saying he's generally scummy.

What is your opinion of Aj? Iirc you haven't made any references to the slot.

[MattP]

He took basically no stances, basically gave Matt instructions on how to avoid being scumread by him, didn't address my point and tried to turn it around on me instead, tip-toes around a TKoE scumread by calling him "odd", says he "could believe" Rask is newbtown (means nothing). Just everything about that was scummy.

I mean arguing over semantics with your opinions here is an exercise in uselessness but your 2nd, 4th and 5th points aren't alignment indicative, Supreme is just posting all his thoughts in the thread, they don't look particularly malicious or directed. His recent posting he is outlining his scumhunting thought processes in a pretty logical way and demonstrating stances he's taken. Considering how much content he just posted it's silly you're just coming into the thread and pretty much disregarding it by repeating you just wanting to lynch him.

[MattP]

If I were to make a generalized statement right now I would say that Aj's posting this page is bad in general.

[MattP]

Jk, on the last page now

[MattP]

I'm aware I'm not super involved right now. This past week I had some huge deadlines and now I'm catching up on normal school things that I had to let fall at the waist side for those deadline projects. I'll be more involved in the next few days

[MattP]

Just throwing in quickly, doctor makes complete sense in a night start game. Why not throw in protown WIFOM saving ability to balance out a mafia NK-start. Also, I don't see why someone would fake claim doctor given how likely a doc is in this setup and the role being decent but not amazing enough to try to draw out before being lynched

[MattP]

Unvote/b]

[MattP]

Unvote

[MattP]

P.S. I thought doctors were supposed to always claim VT?

Why do you think that?

1.)

I am caught up. Yes, I have seem your claim. No, I do not find it very compelling.

Why is it not compelling? You don't think it's a dangerous fakeclaim?

[MattP]

Maybe I'm incredibly forgetful but I can't think of a single game, ever, where scum fakeclaimed doctor. I can only think of games where they've fakeclaimed cop or an unorthodox role. The immediate utility behind fakeclaiming cop to me over doctor is immediately apparent. If I were scum I would want to draw out a cop claim over a doctor claim any day of the week.

[MattP]

Like, my first concern PR-wise as scum is to not be investigated as scum, and that takes precedence over whether or not my NK target prevented? Doctor isn't that great of a role. RB'er or cop is better. I don't like that you're treating this claim so black and white like it's a fakeclaim.

[MattP]

Wow, those quoted posts are insanely specific the the claim he's doing now. That's actually kind of hilarious

[MattP]

Based on that I'm fine with an Aj lynch again

[MattP]

I'm pretty sure I have been town in all my games with Aj, and I'm pretty sure I've played well in them - I don't remember how many games specifically. i also don't remember his alignments in the games, but we've played together prior

[MattP]

If Aj breadcrumbed you don't think he would've said it by now? On an unrelated note, breadcrumbing is so 2011