Mini 1769: Ice Cream Mafia - Game over!

[OceanWind]

VOTE: Masquerade

I have townreads on Keyser Soze and mn.

[OceanWind]

UNVOTE: Massive

VOTE: Oceanwind

I'll explain in a bit. Are you scumreading me for disagreeing with you?

[OceanWind]

Slightly, but moreso to do with wanting to hear your reasoning before proceeding.

Which reads do you disagree with? I had three reads (Masquerade as scum, Keyser Soze and mn as town). You said you disagreed with "both."

[OceanWind]

I don't see that from your previous posts:

Is it too early to ask for a force-replace? I really get the feeling mn is only here to antagonize us and not planning on actually playing the game..

That's quite a drastic comment to make during RVS.

Why?

Do you think his behavior has impeded town thus far?

Here, you implicitly defend mn from Masquerade and speak to Masquerade in an accusatory tone ("drastic comment"). That suggests you think Masquerade is probably not town and that you at least lean somewhat town on mn.

What is your read on Keyser Soze now?

[OceanWind]

When did I 'implicitly' defend mn

I just quoted where you defended mn. When your townread (Masquerade) accused your "meh" read (mn), your response is to interrupt, call Masquerade's statement "drastic" and question him about whether mn's behavior impeded town.

I have a hard time buying that your reads are actually what you say they are. They don't match up with your actions.

---

Mn has been posting reads and scumhunting even if he's not explaining his actions. He is taking in new information and adapting his reads as the game progresses. Early reads are often gut-based and intuitive. There's often not a well-developed logical explanation for them. So, I don't care if he's can't explain a page one read. He may not be scumhunting in the way that most people like and has an unconventional approach. This makes him an easy target.

Masquerade's Post 59 is nitpicking playstyle tells from mn in lieu of scumhunting.

Keyser Soze is a townread because he's pro-active, he's questioning people, moving the game forward. Posts like 25 show a rather transparent thought process and we get a taste of what he's been thinking internally and how he's reacting to game events.

The first question that sprung to my mind was: 'Do you really believe mn scum-reads Golden Robster?' [i.e Aquanim is overreacting - why/how could mn already firmly conclude Golden Robster is scum during page one RVS? However, mn's following two posts made me re-think my position on the tone of his intro (sarcastic/RVS vs bad play).

It's uncommon for mafia to fake this level of transparency this early in the game.

[OceanWind]

Nitpickety isn't good enough for you to scum read him overall and we're only four pages in.

I see. And "disagreeing" is the only valid reason to scumread people in your mind?

[OceanWind]

OceanWind has been prodded.

Sorry, stuff came up and I'm really tired and not feeling up to playing mafia at the moment. I'm going to have to give it a couple of days and then I'll re-read the thread and get back into the game.

[OceanWind]

I think the idea that some players aren't readable just isn't true. KeinTepes could be an example of such a player - he was seemingly impossible to read but some players correctly scumread him even on D1. Inactives should be replaced, not lynched. Lynching empty slots just sets the town back. If someone is coasting, you can always use the fact that they are coasting to get a read on them. When people don't post, more likely they have real life obligations and they misjudged the amount of time they could spare for mafia as happened with me.

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that you shouldn't be afraid to mislynch. Are you sure you are not just offering it as justification for mislynching people in the past and then feeling angry at yourself for not getting it right, and then shifting the blame so that you are not at fault? Titus for instance wasn't inactive in the least and most certainly didn't "deserve" to die. You speak with some bizarre pride at mislynching other players when you are town. But the reality is that if you are mislynching players a lot, you just aren't very good at reading people. Re-analyzing the way you develop reads and improving from your mistakes is a better way to become a good player rather than hunting for justifications to quell your frustration at being wrong. If you pushed hard for a lynch, it can be frustrating to see them flip town - I've led my fair share of mislynches - but improving yourself is not about deflecting blame but understanding where you went wrong.

[OceanWind]

I don't disagree that some players are more readable than others. I don't disagree that the level of regret one feels after pushing a mislynch can be proportional to how useful and active the lynched player was.

Massive, and Masquerade/GuyFawkes posted little content. Titus posted quite a bit. It may be harder to read them than average but part of the reason to play mafia is to push the boundaries of accurate you can be. I wouldn't just call them all unreadable players and accept that they should have all been lynched and that town was simply unlucky for lynching the town ones. I'm not sure why you are including Titus with the inactives though - I skimmed along with the game at times but she seemed to have a fairly high post count which is typical of Titus in any game. I've mislynched her before but I was wrong then and I've focused more on where I went wrong as opposed to "don't be afraid to mislynch Titus."