Mini 1777: Varied Music Mafia: Finale

[Thurhame]

@camn: To be fair, I have never before heard the point you make about avatars. I understand and agree, but it's not something obvious that you can expect someone to know just by being a veteran.

VOTE: Aristophanes
His participation is mostly responding to others with short questions or meaningless comments, which is more characteristic of scum (it's what I do as scum when I lack energy or motivation). Even when he calls out Almost50 for potentially having "scumknowlege", he doesn't move his vote to match.

[Thurhame]

Um... the rule specifically says you can. Not, "you can if ___, otherwise you can't". There are no conditions given. You just can.

[Thurhame]

@Mod:

Does this count as a vote?

Oh look, it's that *Guy* again!

Maybe I should

Vote: GuyFawekes

instead!

[Thurhame]

Why shouldn't he be?

We're passed the RVS stage. What's your opinion on things such as the Kitty wagon, camn's stance on lurkers, Almost50's wagon-for-wagon's-sake, my opinion of Aristo, or iraonavp's complete abscense?

[Thurhame]

Is there a Town benefit to claiming Miller early?

[Thurhame]

Are there other roles which should be claimed on d1? (For instance neighborhoods, since they don't really benefit town?)

[Thurhame]

The miller claim is meaningless at the moment.

@Killthestory: "Makes a serious vote after 2 pages and RVS just ended" is not an explanation, it is a fact. An explanation would be saying why making a serious vote when the time for non-serious votes is over is scummy.

^ Should be replaced; Let's PL Katsuki for lyrking

I'll support this, but only if we can't get anything better before the two weeks are up. Scumlynch > Lurkerlynch.

I think Kitty vs Kill is likely town vs town based on the feel I get from some of their posts.

UNVOTE: Aristophanes
He hasn't posted at all since camn voted him. I still think he's scummy, but I'm moving my vote to another suspect for the moment. Pending more information from both of them, of course.
VOTE: camn

[Thurhame]

There's nothing to figure out. People making serious votes = RVS being over. RVS being over = people making serious votes. That is the definiton of RVS. It has no bearing on scumminess.

[Thurhame]

Um, no, I wasn't. My scumread had nothing to do with his rvs vote.

[Thurhame]

@Thurhame, can you explain your read on camn?

Not at the moment, sorry.

[Thurhame]

DRKitty- where you at on a power wagon?

What's a power wagon? i.e. how is it different from a regular wagon?

[Thurhame]

Right. Because it's a really good idea to lynch someone less than 48 hours into our first Day, instead of using most of the it to gather more information and reads and then lynching.

Speaking of which, I got the reaction I wanted from camn. Aristophanes, on the other hand, is still scummy; he's only added a see-i'm-not-lurking post that's completely useless. A mafia thread is mostly noise, get used to it. If you ever want to be a good mafia player, you need to start searching through the noise for those nuggets of true feels that let you make reads.
UNVOTE: camn
VOTE: Aristophanes

p-edit: Miller claim is meaningless. Treat it just like a non-claim.

[Thurhame]

Then you think it is more likely to be a fakeclaiming scum than an actual miller?

Also, can we get some posts from our lurkers? iraonavp hasn't been here since Sunday night, and SnarkySnowman has a grand total of 3 posts with no content aside from votes.

[Thurhame]

@camn: Sure, if you think revealing it is good for town.

I am a

Town Neighbor

, member of the

Amethyst Neighborhood

. Camn is also in the same neighborhood.

As camn pointed out in our private thread, the mod might have used RNG to distribute roles in the neighborhood, but if he didn't then there would be almost certainly at least 1 scum. I have minor town gutfeels (not strong enough to call a read) on the other two members of our neighborhood, so when my main scumread seemed stalled I decided to push camn and see what happened.

What happened is camn's response in our private thread gave me a semi-strong townread on her, so I'm going back to pushing Aristophanes.

P.S. If you still want to lynch me ok, but please don't discard 80% of the first day to do it. Day 1 is the foundation; providing pages and pages of feels and vote history to be analyzed and crossreferenced with flips on later days. More of such information can only help town, so even if you think I'm absolutely confirmed scum please wait until sometime next week to lynch me, unless conversation somehow completely dries up into nothingness before then.

[Thurhame]

P.P.S. Can anyone tell me whether I'm supposed to reveal the other members of the neighborhood too, or leave them anonymous?

[Thurhame]

Waitaminute, Katsuki is already voting me, he can't threaten to hammer me.

[Thurhame]

Says the person who claims to be blindly sheeping camn.

You've been terribly inconsistent so far, even without the sheeping you're scummy.
VOTE: Katsuki

p-edit: No other abilites.

[Thurhame]

^

Ad Hominem

vs

Ad Hominem

[Thurhame]

@Killthestory: If you think I'm town and Snarky or Katsuki is scum, could you move your vote to one of them?

[Thurhame]

A little incentive:
VOTE: Aristophanes makes 3

Killthestory feels like town from his recent posts, though I still don't like his abraisive attitude.

[Thurhame]

Ircher isn't scummy. He is, however, extremely unhelpful to town. I can't get a read through the obfuscating wishywashiness. I would have no objections to an Ircher wagon.

VOTE: Ircher

[Thurhame]

p-edit: Having stronger townreads than scumreads isn't scummy. It's more a matter of style. I've usually done better finding town than scum regardless of my own alignment.

[Thurhame]

Me in my first game on the site. I had one scumread all game (which turned out to be wrong), but my townreads won the game for Town through PoE.

[Thurhame]

@Kill: I think I see what you're saying. Looking back at his iso, I do see a bit of a scummy feel in the way he backtracks in #73.

[Thurhame]

@almost50: Please don't quote a wall unless you put it in spoiler tags. It hurts people's eyes.

[Thurhame]

SS and KTS have had no interaction. Why do you think they're oposite alignments?

[Thurhame]

For that matter, SnarkySnowman has had almost no interaction with anyone. His iso consists of 3 posts, none of which have any content.

SnarkySnowman, get in here and post!

[Thurhame]

Someone needs to read Almost50 for me because I can't do it.

Shifty, but null. It sounds like his complete lack of decent reads has more to do with being spread thin over multiple games than any real alignment indicator.

His first post is interesting, but ignorable for now. We don't have the information to do anything with it.

[Thurhame]

NO NO NO NO NO. I go off to an interview, and come back to find some idiot quickhammered? NO. Just NO. ESPECIALLY on Day 1.

KATSUKI WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU THINKING

[Thurhame]

VOTE: Katsuki

DEATH TO THE QUICKHAMMERING SCUM

[Thurhame]

In the unlikely event Katsuki flips town I shall be very, very angry. Quickhammering on Day 1 is NEVER a town play.

[Thurhame]

While I do agree that quickhammering anti-town, it's usually (in my experience) town who does it as scum are often too scared to do it.

While I admit my experience isn't very extensive, I have seen both town and scum quickhammer. The town apologized immediately, saying he didn't realize the target was at L-1; while the scum acted more like Katsuki is acting.

[Thurhame]

I've never seen a quickhammer hit scum, so no comment.

[Thurhame]

That's a completely different question. The behavior bothers me if it comes from town, because it's stupid and anti-town. If it comes from scum, it can be a valid (if risky) play.

However, scum quickhammering one of their own more than negates the benefit it might give, so if ircher had been scum, the quickhammer would have had no bearing on Katsuki's alignment. Thus, no comment.

[Thurhame]

It's like Katsuki is

trying

to make us lynch him. Claiming to be awesome at finding scum when he's town, while in this game his scumreads have flipped green and green so far?

Is Jester role allowed in normal games?

[Thurhame]

Katsuki is still my best scumread - and not just for the quicklynch; I was scumreading (and voting) him before that as well. But since it looks like half the town disagrees with that, I'm willing to settle for Almost50.

There are two reasons Almost50 seems scummy to me. One is the way he hopped on the end of my wagon specifically to "get a claim," and hopped off the moment I did claim. The other is this slip:

Also FoS on RC. You kept the thread locked long enough for scum to get acquainted to eachother in their QT.

The mafia QT is open during the day, so.. yeah.. they probably got to talk in private while we were still locked out bc RC forgot to unlock this thread.

A normal person who thought RC forgot to unlock the thread would assume he was running late - in which case the scum QT would have still been locked too. But Almost50 knew it was only the main thread that RC "forgot", implying that he has access to some quicktopic. At first I assumed he might be a Neighbor like me but in a different neighborhood (the fact that my neighborhood has a specific name made me think it might not be the only one); however, with three non-neighbor flips a second neighborhood seems unlikely. So he's probably one of the Mafia.

VOTE: Almost50

[Thurhame]

He then sent me a notification to my inbox that is dated Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:35 pm, but the thread was still locked and remained so until Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:16 pm (time stamp of post #2)

Oh. I thought you meant the time between the role PMs and the official start of Day 1. To be honest, I'd forgotten about the Day Start pm entirely, since I keep track of the threads with bookmarks making the pms superfluous. I had no idea there was a period afterwards when the thread was still locked, since I didn't get on until 7 PM my time (1 AM your time).

I'm going to go recheck Almost50's iso, but in the meantime,
UNVOTE: Almost50
VOTE: Katsuki

[Thurhame]

@Almost50's point 2: Like I already said in my previous post, the suspicion was only that you had a private quicktopic, not necessarily that you were scum; and I already thought there might be another neighborhood. It wasn't until Day 2 that there was evidence (in the form of three non-Neighbor flips) that the second neighborhood probably didn't exist.

[Thurhame]

I'd be willing to switch my vote to SnarkySnowman, but I'd really prefer to lynch an actual scumread rather than a mere lurker.

[Thurhame]

I know you've kinda already answered this in your previous posts, but can you please explain your scumread on Katsuki? Just sum everything up you find scummy please.

I think it was mostly his sheeping camn at the beginning, and maybe a bit of unconscious OMGUS. I can't find the inconsistency my 145 mentions, so I'm not sure. His later posts seem pretty null. I still think the quickhammering itself is scummy as *insert badword here*.

[Thurhame]

Agreed.

VOTE: Aristophanes

[Thurhame]

L-2 by my count

Actually, it's L-3. Since we have 10 players, we need 6 votes for a majority.

[Thurhame]

Ok.

VOTE: Katsuki

[Thurhame]

Aristophanes hasn't voted once yet since Day 2 began. Get your head in the game man!

[Thurhame]

One of the first things I learned when I joined this forum is "Never lie as town."

[Thurhame]

As far as I know, lying is almost universally considered scummy in normals.

[Thurhame]

So either Katuski is telling the truth and is scum; or he's lying and is scummy.

[Thurhame]

Let me get this straight. You believe Katsuki is scum, and you don't want to lynch him?

[Thurhame]

Now that Katsuki has confirmed himself as town-aligned,

He has confirmed no such thing. Katsuki is just as scummy as he was before the SK thing.

[Thurhame]

If SnarkySnowman is the serial killer, why not lynch him?
Like, if you narrowed him down that well, surely he's better than an information lynch.

Are you scum hunting or are you wagon dissolving/redirecting? You're posting loads to discredit someone's reads and question them w/o offering much. If you're willing to lynch SS, go ahead and place your vote on him. If you don't see my case on him (as you hinted by doubting me limiting it down to SS/camn in the first place) then stop trying to take votes off the Thur wagon and redirecting them "elsewhere".

Iraonavp does bring up a valid point. If you're reasonably sure SS is scum, and aren't sure about me, then why are you voting me instead of SS? The objective of Town-aligned players is to lynch scum.

This doesn't upset my townread on you, but it does make it wobble.

[Thurhame]

I'd much rather lynch Katsuki, but since that doesn't seem to be happening, SS would be my second choice.

VOTE: SnarkySnowman

[Thurhame]

UNVOTE: to prevent another quickhammer incident in case snarky wants to claim

[Thurhame]

Also, care to claim? Intent has been given.

No it hasn't. I made that mistake once on my own wagon; I'm not making it again.

[Thurhame]

You may consider my intent stated, however, if anyone else brings Snarky to L-1.

[Thurhame]

Ircher isn't scummy. He is, however, extremely unhelpful to town. I can't get a read through the obfuscating wishywashiness. I would have no objections to an Ircher wagon.

VOTE: Ircher

This post still gets to me. Of all his posts, it is the single most damning.
He states that Ircher is NOT scummy, yet he votes him. Wtf is that!
And this is after he explicitly stated that he doesn't prefer a PL on D1 unless it is at deadline as we don't have any scum leads.

Obviously it was a pressure vote. A wagon is not necessarily the same as a desire to lynch in early D1.

[Thurhame]

Assuming I haven't miscounted, it's

(4) SnarkySnowman:

GuyFawkes, camn, Almost50, Aristophanes

(3) Thurhame:

Katsuki, duppin, Zulfy

(2) Aristophanes:

iraonavp, SnarkySnowman

not voting:

Thurhame

[Thurhame]

p-edit: with

6

votes required to lynch

[Thurhame]

Intent to Hammer: SnarkySnowman

[Thurhame]

No response/claim from Snarky despite being active elsewhere on the site.

VOTE: SnarkySnowman

[Thurhame]

Deadline is 10:00 PM Friday EDT (2:00 AM Saturday UTS), so a little over 2 and a half days left.

[Thurhame]

I posted intent to hammer Tuesday midday; Snarky posted in another game Tuesday night / Wednesday morning (depending on timezone).

[Thurhame]

pretty sure that was not the hammer.

Correct, because Aristophanes unvoted between my intent and my vote.

Snarky, intent has been given, and I am also now giving intent.

He's already declined to claim; go ahead and hammer.

[Thurhame]

He's dead, he can't talk

[Thurhame]

There's 2 days left, but I see no reason to drag this out.

VOTE: Snarky

This is scum.

No it isn't. If anything, it's town. So are some of his other recent posts, esp. 664. My original scumread on him was never very strong to begin with; by now I'm pretty sure he's Town.

[Thurhame]

Katsuki or GuyFawkes would be a much better target tomorrow, in the absence of additional info from tonight.

[Thurhame]

That rule only says that the twilight itself does not make posting illegal. It does not somehow allow posting that is already illegal by a different rule.

12) Death is final, but a single contentless "bah!" post will be permitted.

[Thurhame]

I am not scum. Aristophanes is not scum. Camn is not scum. Iraonavp is not scum.
Katsuki is ... less scummy than he was, since he's proven not to be the SK. Along with a couple of town-feel posts recently; I'm willing to put him back at null.

VOTE: Zulfy

[Thurhame]

**** And Deciding to lolhammer me.

You do realize I still resemt you for that Katsuki. That was purely antitown; no questions asked.

It was not a lolhammer. I did not want to have to deal with trying to figure your slot out deep into the game.

That is not a reason to simply discard 90% of day 1. Plus even if you didn't get lynched for it, that quickhammer threw off several people's reads (including mine; I didn't start looking at Camn as potential scum until Day 3 when it was too late for me).