Mini 1794: Gunslingers Ahoy! {Game Over}

[Derek12]

VOTE: TehBrawlGuy

Melee>Brawl

[Derek12]

What's a Dwlee

[Derek12]

Hello friend

[Derek12]

Wow that took a total of 2 pages before I alt slipped


I am a god

[Derek12]

VOTE: BlackStar

Mostly gut right now.

[Derek12]

Sure but don't you think there's a chance accountant is scum and you'll look silly?

This is the single greatest post in the history of this thread

[Derek12]

I have a hard time reading MURDERCAT. To be blunt, shit like 108 makes it hard for me to distinguish.if.he's scum or just playing poorly now. :3

[Derek12]

As for standouts, I'm lightly townreading you and TBG

[Derek12]

MURDERCAT, what do you think about BlackStar

[Derek12]

I'm not going to pretend my case is stronger than it is. My initial reasoning was very weak. Sure. It was based on a page of RVS.

I disagree with this if you replace poor with weak:

Breaking RVS does not serve as justification for voting with poor reasoning.

Then I found the way he left the discussion after casting a vote suspicious.

I don't get this at all? I'm not sure if you get to change the way people's arguments are worded when you defend against them.

[Derek12]

MURDERCAT: Do you have any major thoughts on non Accountant/Dunnstral players?

[Derek12]

@Blackstar:

Is your townread on MURDERCAT solely based on your Dunnstral scumread?

[Derek12]

Unrelated but I'm not really getting good feelings from Derek12 either

Just the careful wording of their posts and the content... just not a good feeling about them

Explain the careful wording part?

[Derek12]

Blackstar, I noticed that despite quoting his initial argument against efiend, you haven't really given your thoughts on him. So thoughts?

[Derek12]

Unrelated but I'm not really getting good feelings from Derek12 either

Just the careful wording of their posts and the content... just not a good feeling about them

Explain the careful wording part?

Just the way you ask questions I guess, I saw it again in post 204

I can't really fault you for this, I usually type in an overly "clinical" way. At least around people I don't really know.

[Derek12]

So dunn and I are both scum Blackstar?

Nah, just you

VOTE: murdercat

what

[Derek12]

It's reading time

[Derek12]

My read on Chumba has changed to "up in the air - will decide later after Chumba starts posting again"

Given that it seems like Chumba started posting again, do you have a read on him yet?

[Derek12]

Regarding murder, we played together in a newbie and he was very scummy, everyone scum read him till day 3. He was town there though. If he is town here it should be easier to read him later on.

While that's nice and all, do you have an actual read on him? I don't really like this.

[Derek12]

Still think BlackStar changing his mind twice is a towntell, but I'd support a BS lynch over a Chumba lynch. Although frankly we shouldn't declare the game solved or anything until everyone has spoken up.

Reasoning for this? You seem to be townreading BS, while null reading Chumba at this point in time.

[Derek12]

If you are town you have a completely realistic expectation of what kind of center a person can or should generate early in the game. Sure I didn't produce as much as others but that's because I wasn't involved in the argument. Most of the posts at the time were from murder/accountant who were going back and forth with each other.

Could you reword this? I don't really understand what you're saying, mostly the first part.

[Derek12]

@BlackStar:

What happened to your scumread on Dunnstral?

[Derek12]

You took your vote off of me before I took mine off of you

Or were you still scumreading me when you took your vote off?

^

It looks like you're coming up with reasons for your unvote after the fact.

Oh fuck me

[Derek12]

Even changing the site theme doesn't help, alts are not for me.

[Derek12]

So dunn and I are both scum Blackstar?

Nah, just you

VOTE: murdercat

Ok so to be more specific, at this time what happened to your scumread

[Derek12]

Time travel time

[Derek12]

Before I forget, can you try to keep the names of who you're quoting in your quotes Accountant? It makes it easier to read through

[Derek12]

Chumba I strongly believe you should take your vote off TBG. There is very little chance he is going to be lynched at this point so it's essentially a vanity wagon. Your vote is your weapon; put it where it can do you, and us, some good.

I don't really get this. If Chumba is actively pushing TBG and believes he caught scum, I don't see a reason for removing his vote. Wagons don't start through magic.

[Derek12]

This sure is a lot quieter than yesterday. Where'd everyone go?

I highly doubt that level of activity is going to be the norm, or day 1 is going to go over 100 pages.

Hopefully, or else I'm going to suck even more at getting votecounts posted in a timely manner

[Derek12]

I don't think you were behaving in an unethical manner.

That's because you're white knighting him

Wait how is he behaving unethically? I don't get it.

[Derek12]

I've been a part of the majority in every game except one. And on that one game I was the only member of my scum team. That one game was the only time where I didn't get nervous and super defensive when people started getting suspicious of me. In every other game I've been town and this exact same freaking situation happens and it's just the most frustrating thing in the world that it keeps resulting in me either getting mislynched or night killed by the town. I've tried fighting the wagons directly, ignoring them and trying to make cases and nothing seems to help. It feels like mafia isn't even about listening to logic. It's just about death tunneling and following what everyone else does. I'm "squirming hard" because I'm tired of this. You would be too

Yeah, I REALLY don't like this post. Maybe it's just my personality, but I absolutely hate arguments like this. It feels like you're trying to excuse your actions by saying that you're a bad player, and have people take pity for it.

I will probably skim through your previous games though to see if there's any truth to what you're saying, but whether you're telling the truth or not I've never liked this attitude.

[Derek12]

Although given that you're telling people to look at your meta, it'll all be null at best and doesn't mean much

[Derek12]

Okay, I don't see any other area to press or any chances of getting more information here. I'm going to go to bed, for real this time.

I don't either, but I'm not going to speak for the other players. Maybe they'll see something I haven't. At worst, they still have to weigh in on Star and we can maybe get something from that. As it currently stands, a BlackStar flip is NAI of like half the game.

Seeing as how there's around 5~ players who haven't posted anything, no flip is going to be super useful yet. It'd be pretty stupid for town to lynch this early on in the day IMO.

[Derek12]

If you're actually Town don't be a goddamn anchor and let some Scum/Derptown hammer you. Ever. if you're going to go down, you go down.

Man up and try to be helpful before you do so that you might actually win the game later.

That's what I'm doing. When I get hammered and flip, you can look at everyone's reasons for joining my wagon. Murdercat, zefiend and accountant seem the most suspicious

meant transcend, not zefiend

Weren't you scumreading zefiend for his jump on your before?

[Derek12]

Alright, I lied. I did read the game.

Brawl's vote on chumba was bad. Potential scum there. I didn't like his reason for voting it and his intro post looked a bit fluffed up.

Dunn/murder prob TVT. If one is scum it's Dunn. They're not MVM.

BlackStar has been very bad and has made a few scummy votes and a few potentially forced lines.

All I know about Accountant is that in the game I played with him, he wasn't as headstrong and dominant as he is this time. This behavior switch is NAI to me imo. I personally think using metagame is really stupid, because I along with others don't play the same way every game.

I can elaborate on any of these reads if necessary.

VOTE: blackstar

I can rest happy with my vote on this dude.

I'm pretty sure people asked you do this, you planning on it?

[Derek12]

Derek post a reads list, TBG makes a good point.

Sure, almost done catching up

[Derek12]

I have a hard time reading MURDERCAT. To be blunt, shit like 108 makes it hard for me to distinguish.if.he's scum or just playing poorly now. :3

Ok this is pretty bad.

You managed to pick out the least genuine thing I wrote, wording wise at least. That was one of my poor attempts at imitating Dwlee, around right after I altslipped and stopped caring enough to keep going with it. If you found this genuine, how do you interpret the majority of my posts after that being mostly questions with a pretty different posting style?

[Derek12]

Ok, so I'm done catching up I think, if I missed anything you want me to respond to/talk about point it out for me. I'll make a read list after I grab some food.

[Derek12]

Town - TBG
Lean Town - MURDERCAT, zefiend, Chumba
Null - Dunnstral, Accountant
Scum Lean - chilledtea, Transcend, Blackstar
Scum - N/A

Not very detailed thoughts on above:

TBG - I liked his push on BlackStar, and found myself agreeing with him a lot regarding MURDERCAT. His vote on me makes sense considering his early reasoning for voting Chumba, so it feels townie.

MURDERCAT - He feels to me like a less experienced player that's been getting tunneled pretty heavily by people early on. He's posted a lot less recently, but it feels natural given that the pressure on him has died down quite a bit.

zefiend - Good posts early on, hasn't done anything since then.

Chumba - I disagree with his read on TBG and feel it's TvT, I like his recent posts though.

Dunnstral - I don't know, I have a hard time reading him.

Accountant - Early push on MURDERCAT was good, but I like his recent posts less. It almost feels like he's buddying up to TBG to me.

Chilleadtea - Entrance was bad and fluff was bad.

Transcend - I don't really get his townread on me. I also don't like how his initial catchup post stated that he could elaborate on his reads, which he just ignores.

BlackStar - I don't like his recent appeals to emotion, and his vote on MURDERCAT in 232. He'd be lower, but I'm more reluctant due to the self vote.

-------------

If you want me to expand on any of my reads in further detail I could try, but I'm not making a massive case as I have a tendency to go full conf bias when I do so.

[Derek12]

VOTE: Transcend

Oh yeah, forgot to do this. I think this a better wagon then BlackStar would be currently.

[Derek12]

Posting quick now to say that I'm going to be away for most of tomorrow, and I won't be able to post much until tomorrow night.

[Derek12]

It's been a while, but I'm not going to be able to post until sometime during the night. Really sorry about this, but I've been busy the past two days due to personal matters.

[Derek12]

Ok, I finally have time. Reading through the thread now.

[Derek12]

Surprisingly little happened over those 13~ or so pages. If there's anything in particular that you want me to talk about, feel free to mention it in case I missed anything.

To start with, TBG's thoughts on Transcend recently seem pretty awful, particularly 847. I have 0 clue as to how Transcend replacing out has anything to do with the strength of his content at all.

This

It sounds like a lot of his one-liners and lack of content was due to his mobile posting

Feels especially bad. TBG's main case in 821 came

after

Transcend stated they were having these issues in 798. It makes no sense for me that this defense only comes in after Transcend replaces out, when he should've known about the mobile issue beforehand.

[Derek12]

Hi

Hello friend, I drank some shitty tequila, now I'm ready to play mafia.

[Derek12]

Any posts talking about whether lynching lurkers now is "good" seem stupid. We have plenty of time to decide on a lynch, and arguing about whether or not its a good idea to lynch lurkers that are likely going to be replaced soon accomplishes nothing but clutters up the thread and makes it more of a pain to read.

[Derek12]

@Dunnstral:

Sell me on Rach

[Derek12]

because it's imo just a giant wall of garbage

This describes far too much of this thread

[Derek12]

Seriously though address 920.

[Derek12]

MURDERCAT's scumreads seem to consist of inactive players, and he hasn't bothered placing his vote on any of them.

It kinda feels like he's trying to just lay low now? His scumreads are largely on people who can't/won't respond to him, and he isn't actively pressuring anyone with his vote.

[Derek12]

@MURDERCAT:

Do you have any completed scumgames on site? I kinda want to look through them.

[Derek12]

VOTE: MURDERCAT

Forgot this.

[Derek12]

Regarding murder, we played together in a newbie and he was very scummy, everyone scum read him till day 3. He was town there though. If he is town here it should be easier to read him later on.

While that's nice and all, do you have an actual read on him? I don't really like this.

Null read on him.

What do you not like about "this" anyways?

Missed this before. Mostly the lack of a stance on MURDERCAT despite having experience with him previously.

[Derek12]

@MURDERCAT:

Chilled is your only active scumread right now, why aren't you pushing him?

[Derek12]

No, it doesn't apply to everyone.

One of the most classical scum moves is to lurk in background while town fight it amongst themselves.

I don't think others are guilty of this.

That was regarding your predecessor and IAI.

Regarding content, my content always differs with situation. A situation like lylo is different to day 1.

So if I'm scum then why didn't I do that?

I can't tell if this is serious or not

[Derek12]

I'm going to be V/LA today, so I'll deal with the catch ups tomorrow. Hopefully Kuroi will be caught up by then so I can just go over it all at once.

[Derek12]

Looks like some of the replacements didn't finish catching up, oh well. Reading now.

[Derek12]

Accountant, can you go into detail on your Rach townlean? I'm not seeing it.

[Derek12]

1) Regardless of reads please don't shit up the thread with ego. I don't care if you've solved the game by page 3, I've dealt with so many egoistic players that I'm really sick of this sort of attitude. There's a fine line between confidence and arrogance and when you're getting to the point where you're literally saying that the rest of the site sucks because people are townreading the player you're tunneling on - that is arrogance.

Also, could you stop bringing this up? I don't even disagree with you, but its clear that you two just don't like each other and I doubt that either of you are going to budge on this "issue". Every time it's brought up, it just ends up filling the thread with pointless bickering.

[Derek12]

I mean I agree with you, but the way it seems to be going I have a feeling it wont do anything.

[Derek12]

I don't scum read murdercat anymore. When he started defending me I was wondering if he was scum that wanted to look good after my flip because he was defending me really hard. But now I think he's town who just actually sees that I'm not scum.

Is there anything in particular that caused this change

[Derek12]

Hi everyone!

As I'm reading the game I'll post my opinions every 10 pages I read.

I intend to I finish reading the game tomorrow.

So uhh, did you read at least 10 pages on your first go.

[Derek12]

@MOD:

Could you update the deadline in the opening post to May 28? You extended it after the site went down, and I think some people might not notice.

------------------------

Other then that, my overall thoughts now are that I liked chilled better post catch up outside of one or two posts like 1177.

KAAG catchup is fine, I agree with a good amount of it.

Like Rach less though. I think I said it before, but I don't like the early talk around lurkers, and it feels like a lot of her posts are kinda pointless? A lot of my read on her is gut though, so I'll need some more time to sort her properly.

[Derek12]

@MURDERCAT:

Do you have any completed scumgames on site? I kinda want to look through them.

VOTE: MURDERCAT

Forgot this.

Yeah. You're right. Murdercat should have be online at 5 AM in the morning and posted within nine minutes. Screw him, right?

What? What would prompt you to believe that I voted MURDERCAT for that reason and not for this, which I posted literally a minute before the first post?

MURDERCAT's scumreads seem to consist of inactive players, and he hasn't bothered placing his vote on any of them.

It kinda feels like he's trying to just lay low now? His scumreads are largely on people who can't/won't respond to him, and he isn't actively pressuring anyone with his vote.

[Derek12]

Did my posts not explain it all?

Not in the slightest. Go into detail on your scumreads on Dunnstral and I, because you've barely mentioned us in your catchup.

[Derek12]

Add Chilled to that too, you haven't mentioned them at all either and you lean scum on them.

[Derek12]

Matt, your vote has been on me for like 500 posts, am I still your top scum read?

No, I voted a while back for pressure and haven't got around to moving it.

I'm ok with a Transcend/Pants lynch now. Agree with Rach though, I want an actual read list before it goes through in case he's town.

[Derek12]

As of now, scumreads are Pants>Kuroi>Rach/Star

[Derek12]

That probably wouldn't happen if your reads weren't poorly explained at best

[Derek12]

Spoiler:

@MURDERCAT:

Do you have any completed scumgames on site? I kinda want to look through them.

VOTE: MURDERCAT

Forgot this.

Yeah. You're right. Murdercat should have be online at 5 AM in the morning and posted within nine minutes. Screw him, right?

What? What would prompt you to believe that I voted MURDERCAT for that reason and not for this, which I posted literally a minute before the first post?

MURDERCAT's scumreads seem to consist of inactive players, and he hasn't bothered placing his vote on any of them.

It kinda feels like he's trying to just lay low now? His scumreads are largely on people who can't/won't respond to him, and he isn't actively pressuring anyone with his vote.

I already explained how one of your points against me was pretty much just misrepping me.

[Derek12]

Actually, Derek. I don't think you've responded to me at all.

It's in the spoiler. Is there anything else you've wanted me to respond to that I might have missed?

[Derek12]

I've probably taken too much of a load on Mafia games. But I'll do an ISO on Derek like I did on Dunnstral.

And Derek, that one point isn't any misrepresentation. Was there not a ~ten minute window you gave up on at 5 AM?

You're trying to argue that I voted him due to not responding within 10 minutes, when it's pretty clear I just forgot to put my vote in an earlier post.

[Derek12]

Yeah, I have no problem with waiting. We might as well wait for Kuroi's explanation and give Pants some more time for a list.

[Derek12]

Accountant, can you explain your change on TBG.

[Derek12]

Literally all of your scum reads are on board

The thing is, I'm pretty sure almost everyone dislikes the slot at this point.

[Derek12]

V/LA until my internet decides to start working properly again.

If its fine by tonight I'll post then, but I'm not making any promises.

[Derek12]

Internet still shit, and I have some personal issues I need to sort out before I can really commit to a game now. Really sorry for the shit play and flaking everyone.

@Mod: Replace me out.

-----

As useless as it is, I slapped together a quick read list while I'm still here in case anyone wants it.

Town - Chumba's slot/pirate mollie
Lean Town - Dunnstral/KAAG
Null - MURDERCAT/Titus
Lean Scum - chilledtea/Accountant
Scum - KuroiXHF

I haven't read super late D1 or D2 much, so it doesn't take it into account too heavily