Mini Normal 1797 Probably Not Actually Normal Mafia [GG]

[Dwlee99]

hmm scum will be cross killing right?

[Dwlee99]

There ya go now lynch the other people por favor

[Dwlee99]

Lynch nahdia and then lynch fire? yea?

[Dwlee99]

Why. the game is solved ffs

[Dwlee99]

That is cause I am town you lameo
I have a soft yesterday, and I have a clear thought process for my N1 action, like bro

[Dwlee99]

Not to.mention how obviously scum both of them are if you just read their isos.

[Dwlee99]

I hope you realize even if youre wrong about me being town there would be a 2 1 1 prisoner's dilemma and we win anyway. Pls

[Dwlee99]

But what happens if we kill doc and they both shoot town?

Do you know what the prisoner's dilemma is?

[Dwlee99]

Yomi Level 2 (2 Town, 1 Mafioso, 1 Werewolf Goon)

As with most dilemmas, the correct response for the Townie(s) is to take a third option and No Lynch. There is absolutely nothing the scum can do in this situation but follow suit.
At Night, the dilemma shifts to the scum. The only way for either scum to win is for them to shoot the other scum. But if both scum do this, then the Townie(s) will be the only player(s) alive, and the Town will win. This is a disheartening outcome so late in the game!
The other option, shooting the Townie, is clearly suboptimal. Going with the three-player example above, if the Mafioso shoots the Townie and the Serial Killer shoots the Mafioso, the Serial Killer wins (and the Mafioso feels dumb afterward). Thus, to the scum, the choice is between giving victory to the other scum or the Townie.
It is worth noting that depending on the moderator, if BOTH scum shoot the Townie, the result is a draw. Since a draw is less than a win, there is no real reason to not shoot the other scum. (Or is there? See Caveats below.)
Thus, the Town will always win

Im actually gonna go check out caveats one sec

[Dwlee99]

None of the caveats cause town loss. scum HAVE to shoot the other scum to have a chance at winning.

[Dwlee99]

Btw it says no lynch to go into.night 2 1 1 but because it is 3 1 1 we need to lynch today. Look, we are winning this game, vote nahdia and ride the glory of perfect town win.

[Dwlee99]

Town doesnt win if they go 1 1, but it isnt going 1 1 because for 1 1 to happen the scum have to play against win con and give up their chance of winning.
pedit If I doc correctly yes we can.

[Dwlee99]

I hope you realize the dilemma is all theoretical because nahdia is going to flip scum.
pedit fair enough

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Firebringer
Say who the doc targets are, yo

[Dwlee99]

Ftr the odds in 3 1 arent any different than 2 1 because in both there are only two people that could be scum but whatever floats your boat,

[Dwlee99]

Dwlee protects murdercat.

Nahdia protects snoe.

Please confirm you read this and know what you are doing. If the person you are protecting dies, we will lynch you.

I see this

And yea having someone else to talk to is nice when they dont constantly talk in skype about how sircakez is scum and faking his reads and how obvtown guiltylion is /salty

[Dwlee99]

this is actually wrong.

How?

[Dwlee99]

Okay I am protecting murdercat.

[Dwlee99]

lol

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: nahdia
if you are seriously considering lynching me today.. lmao

[Dwlee99]

reminder that nahdia did

almost nothing

for the entire fucking game until it was lylo and she could win.
pedit I think I saw that done once but I'm not good at rapping

Like I could rap songs already written butttttt

[Dwlee99]

I will claim if murdercat and snoe want me to but I would rather not

This is a soft at my role but I dont think I did anything else cause crumbing doctor is sorta stupid lol

I just completely forgot about him when I was thinking about not preventing cross kills

hmm scum will be cross killing right?

[Dwlee99]

and i mean, self-meta, but me being a bit lazy about a game early on is actually a towntell for me.

not really though?
You tried a ton day one in this game:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=65594

[Dwlee99]

unless you think I was trying to crumb a no target as doctor from the beginning of the day I'm obviously town

[Dwlee99]

it wasn't just not trying much though, you were actively posting but it was practically active lurking the entirety of day one.
I didn't die because I'm seen as mislynch bait, I have gotten night killed I think once on this site.

[Dwlee99]

and you're forgetting me wanting to lynch cooldog over dramonic because of the thing with my wagon.

[Dwlee99]

my whole reasoning was: "I would have been hammered if there were people on my wagon that weren't werewolves"
I didn't want to lynch in dramonic/firebringer because it was possible they would be mafia. But if you remember I was all for lynching cooldog.

[Dwlee99]

I feel like my wagon has to be all werewolf or werewolf has no daytalk. That means Im fine lynching cooldog.

VOTE: Cooldog
Him and fire are least likely to be mafia.

I would prefer not to lynch mafia and lose.
pedit Nahdia and cooldog are on my wagon.and I havent been hammered yet. That means the werewolf team is probably nahdia cooldog and one of fire and dramonic.

so I think nahdia cooldog are least likely to be mafia, but murdercat said nahdia could be mafia
pedit so you are bad at this game, just admit it

still think dwelee needs to eat rope.

Not sure why nahdia is thought as scum, seems pretty townie to me. Two mason claims seem fine, don't think they are scum.

That leaves drama, which I put in a 50/50 to be scum catagory, and fire which is also a coinflip to me.

So you think the mason claims are town. But you think that nahdia is town as well. So you're claiming not town?

IF WE LYNCHED MAFIA THAT DAY WE LOST

[Dwlee99]

"I was totally wanting to lynch cooldog!" he says, disregarding that his vote was on me all day.

you're confirmed werewolf to me as well..

[Dwlee99]

lmao at nahdia flail

[Dwlee99]

[Dwlee99]

...

I'ma gonna post thoughts on d2 in this post and then go onto today in this post because I was afk for those two days...

Ego/I'm not scum. Can explain the replace out but I'd rather not.

relevant.

ftr I did defend sickofit but oh well

yes, yes you did. And it was scummy as fuck too (see my previous posts on this).

Murdercat if you could explain it? Maybe you don't need to be super detailed but I'd like to understand that.

Does this look like bussing??

And your crumb was after mine, nahdia, right after I softed my role you did the same thing (and I have something showing my mindset for a
And the unprompted role fish.

Ego/I'm not scum. Can explain the replace out but I'd rather not.

You should explain it, because what it looks like is Kill broke some sort of rule which involved him talking during the night. Which seems like scum.

????????????????????????????

No, the scum double voter thing was not a joke. I need to read 211 cause your tag was broken one sec

There was a doublevoter. Assuming the doublevoter was scum we would need to lynch them

And I'm setting up lynches for a conditional association tell. I wouldn't mind lynching dwelee at this point pending shit I haven't read yet.

Putting people at l-1 after 2 pages is dumb on d2. My opinion. Why would you do that? My guess is this wagon has a lot of cross-voting scum on it for it to get that momentum so fast.

actually f it
VOTE: Necrogirl

give no shits at this point.

vote: dwelee

my thoughts are that we're outnumbered, aren't we? :T

my set-up spec:
2-3 scum teams
2-2-1 with alternating night kills
2-1-1 with alternating night kills on the 3rd parties
3-1 with a town vig for swing.

Those seems like the only viable possibilities to me.

VOTE: dwlee

that's stupid reasoning and u know it.

chew-chew, get this wagon rolling.

I'm a mason. I was waiting for partner but whatever I already soft claimed. I'll wait for my partner to reveal themselves if they want to. I have a crumb I'll wait to post.

kewl.

-sigh-
Im obv town here and dramonic's push on me is shit. Iirc he has been town reading me but now in his scum pile it had me and you.

you aren't, eat rope.

if dwlee is town i will eat my shoe and post pics.

I'll eat a sock and post a pick.

still think dwelee needs to eat rope.

Not sure why nahdia is thought as scum, seems pretty townie to me. Two mason claims seem fine, don't think they are scum.

That leaves drama, which I put in a 50/50 to be scum catagory, and fire which is also a coinflip to me.

[Dwlee99]

...

I'ma gonna post thoughts on d2 in this post and then go onto today in this post because I was afk for those two days...

Ego/I'm not scum. Can explain the replace out but I'd rather not.

relevant.

ftr I did defend sickofit but oh well

yes, yes you did. And it was scummy as fuck too (see my previous posts on this).

Murdercat if you could explain it? Maybe you don't need to be super detailed but I'd like to understand that.

Does this look like bussing??

And your crumb was after mine, nahdia, right after I softed my role you did the same thing (and I have something showing my mindset for a
And the unprompted role fish.

Ego/I'm not scum. Can explain the replace out but I'd rather not.

You should explain it, because what it looks like is Kill broke some sort of rule which involved him talking during the night. Which seems like scum.

????????????????????????????

No, the scum double voter thing was not a joke. I need to read 211 cause your tag was broken one sec

There was a doublevoter. Assuming the doublevoter was scum we would need to lynch them

And I'm setting up lynches for a conditional association tell. I wouldn't mind lynching dwelee at this point pending shit I haven't read yet.

Putting people at l-1 after 2 pages is dumb on d2. My opinion. Why would you do that? My guess is this wagon has a lot of cross-voting scum on it for it to get that momentum so fast.

actually f it
VOTE: Necrogirl

give no shits at this point.

vote: dwelee

my thoughts are that we're outnumbered, aren't we? :T

my set-up spec:
2-3 scum teams
2-2-1 with alternating night kills
2-1-1 with alternating night kills on the 3rd parties
3-1 with a town vig for swing.

Those seems like the only viable possibilities to me.

VOTE: dwlee

that's stupid reasoning and u know it.

chew-chew, get this wagon rolling.

I'm a mason. I was waiting for partner but whatever I already soft claimed. I'll wait for my partner to reveal themselves if they want to. I have a crumb I'll wait to post.

kewl.

-sigh-
Im obv town here and dramonic's push on me is shit. Iirc he has been town reading me but now in his scum pile it had me and you.

you aren't, eat rope.

if dwlee is town i will eat my shoe and post pics.

I'll eat a sock and post a pick.

still think dwelee needs to eat rope.

Not sure why nahdia is thought as scum, seems pretty townie to me. Two mason claims seem fine, don't think they are scum.

That leaves drama, which I put in a 50/50 to be scum catagory, and fire which is also a coinflip to me.

Does this look like bussing??

And your crumb was after mine, nahdia, right after I softed my role you did the same thing (and I have something showing my mindset for a no target n1)

[Dwlee99]

to reiterate because i think this is my strongest point:

-the last scum is werewolf
-the werewolf team shot MURDERCAT two nights ago
-i would not have shot MURDERCAT in any scenario
-i instantly claimed doctor on MURDERCAT yesterday

ergo, i am town doctor.

1. yea
   
2. uhuh
   
3. yea sure, just wifom yo
   
4. okay so did I

[Dwlee99]

cooldog's push on me was clearly not bussing
pedit You knew to claim because you fucking shot him and he didn't die or you no killed to claim doctor.

[Dwlee99]

IT ISNT SUBOPTIMAL IF YOU THINK YOU CAN CONVINCE PEOPLE YOU WOULDN'T PLAY SUB-OPTIMAL TO NOT GET LYNCHED

[Dwlee99]

wait why would werewolf shoot the mafia if they would have just gotten end gamed by the masons???

[Dwlee99]

the play we're talking about isn't even optimal lmao

[Dwlee99]

I will claim if murdercat and snoe want me to but I would rather not

^^^
THREE POSTS BEFORE YOURS

[Dwlee99]

I just started thinking about it and optimal play would be killing the town, right?
i'm gonna go look over it in a bit

[Dwlee99]

Night Three has come to a close. One body was found during the night:

Cooldog is dead. He was a

Spoiler:

Werewolf Goon

[/b]

Vote Count 4.01

Firebringer
Nahdia
MURDERCAT
snoe
Dwlee99

Not voting - Nahdia, MURDERCAT, snoe, Dwlee99, firebringer

With 5 alive, it's 3 to lynch!

Mod Notes: None

Day 1 ends in: (expired on 2016-06-20 00:27:00)

okay so looking at this from werewolf point of view, if they shot firebringer who is now confirmed mafia they would be in a 3 v 1 situation, so actually that would create the situation we're in right now pretty much so I guess it could be optimal, but that's assuming that the mafia hit werewolf. If mafia didn't hit werewolf then killing town would be 1 v 2 v 1, so trying to hit mafia probably would have been optimal.

[Dwlee99]

I will claim if murdercat and snoe want me to but I would rather not

^^^
THREE POSTS BEFORE YOURS

what, so i knew you were a doctor from that?

I just started thinking about it and optimal play would be killing the town, right?
i'm gonna go look over it in a bit

UHG. It doesn't even matter. what does matter is you making that move is completely plausible (you said it wasn't suboptimal at the beginning of yesterday, and then agreed with me, and now are disagreeing again) whereas I clearly never would have done that.

You knew I was a power role. If I was scum why wouldn't I just claim you were no kill gambiting or claim a different role (like firebringer did)?

[Dwlee99]

I think the fact that nahdia has thought of what optimal scum play would have been in that situation is scummy af.
pedit completely ignore the second part of my post lol
pedit2 so did I pretty much.. lol

[Dwlee99]

all you're doing is screaming about how "you would never make that kill" (which is literally the stupidest fucking reason ever, saying that you wouldn't do something as scum is total bullshit)
I was able to point to your play and explain why you were scum
pedit I was a lynch option and mentioned my role.

[Dwlee99]

all you're doing is screaming about how "you would never make that kill" (which is literally the stupidest fucking reason ever, saying that you wouldn't do something as scum is total bullshit)
I was able to point to your play and explain why you were scum

no, you didn't. i was able to point to yours and explain why you're a werewolf, and why i can't be. all you've done it shout "YOU DID NOTHING SINCE DAY 1" which
1) isn't true
2) my relatively low participation MAKES SENSE FOR MY ROLE.

because mechanically dramonic and firebringer had a chance of being mafia and I would rather lynch inside you and cooldog because you were literally confirmed werewolf to me? shut the fuck up

[Dwlee99]

and I never get night killed so I didn't need to worry about that lol

[Dwlee99]

but you ARE a werewolf

[Dwlee99]

lmao

[Dwlee99]

In post 310, Dwlee99 wrote:
like my town case for him is:
Joined: April 26, 2016
^ despite some of their pushes being p bad their join date makes me see their efforts to scum hunt as town.

pedit who tf is prof

defending for the sake of defending. If sick flips scum then dwelee scum.

yep this is bussing mhmm

[Dwlee99]

Wait don't we need to policy lynch you because if you're a scum doublevoter in lylo you could auto win?

because town double voters don't exist? This vote is scummy as fuck d1.

:Roll:

Wait don't we need to policy lynch you because if you're a scum doublevoter in lylo you could auto win?

because town double voters don't exist? This vote is scummy as fuck d1.

Since when is fucking scummy?

ignore cooldog. He just missed me changing my mind in the very next post with the very amazing voting feature that adds a white fill to the text somehow. Totally not just trying to throw shade~

defending for the sake of defending. If sick flips scum then dwelee scum.

Why can't I be scum white knighting someone?
Why can't I be town considering all angles?
What if sick flips self-aligned scum, am I still scum?

Lastly, why are you trying to line up lynches?

defending for the sake of defending. If sick flips scum then dwelee scum.

Why can't I be scum white knighting someone?
Why can't I be town considering all angles?
What if sick flips self-aligned scum, am I still scum?

Lastly, why are you trying to line up lynches?

in every fucking game that I do this everyone always says, "but CooLDoG, you bastard, why u line up lynches?" well, put simply, I'm not. There is no reason for a town member to defend someone weakly. Either there is a solid reason someone is town that would logically prevent them from being lynched (a good claim, for instance) or there is a soft bullshit reason reason for keeping them alive. Every time I see someone defend someone else it begs the question, "why?". What initiative does a town member have to defend a player that is soft town-null? There is none. The only reason someone would come out and

randomly defend

someone else is if they had a self-interested reason in defending someone. This is scummy. Town's motivation is collective survival, scum motivation is for individual players to survive. Thus defending players is scummy. If you buy meta bullshit you can look this up in pretty much all of my games going back ~two years and you will note:

1) I rarely defend players, normally refraining from such until d3 or later provided no contingent bullshit claims.
2) I have called out players on this "tell" before.
3) I am right and you are wrong.

fuck his claim

^why? This is scummy as fuck considering we still have time.

I was writing a bit of a long-winded response to cooldog but it isnt worth it. Basically just soft town reads are there for a reason and talking about those reasons isnt scummy. And I dont think you answered my questions about if sickofit flips town/selfaligned,

I feel like my wagon has to be all werewolf or werewolf has no daytalk. That means Im fine lynching cooldog.

VOTE: Cooldog
Him and fire are least likely to be mafia.

I would prefer not to lynch mafia and lose.
pedit Nahdia and cooldog are on my wagon.and I havent been hammered yet. That means the werewolf team is probably nahdia cooldog and one of fire and dramonic.

[Dwlee99]

cooldog's entire game was trying to lynch me lol

[Dwlee99]

let's finish this perfect win @murder @snoe

[Dwlee99]

IS THIS WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR? I CRUMBED.

I.
DO.
NOT.
PLAY.
SUBOPTIMAL.

wait why would werewolf shoot the mafia if they would have just gotten end gamed by the masons???

WHY ARE YOU SAYING THIS IF YOU AGREED WITH ME YESTERDAY YOU WOULD DO WHAT I SAID I WOULD DO.

IS IT NOT OBVIOUS DWLEE MADE THE MOVE?

COME ON.

the play we're talking about isn't even optimal lmao

LOOK AT THIS. HE'S DEFENDING HIS MOVE -_-'

except I'M NOT A WEREWOLF.

I also think that nahdia is too mature to be capsing about this lol

[Dwlee99]

that you realize town deserves this win and you should self-hammer, yea? ^-^

[Dwlee99]

so you believe that the setup is 4 mafia goons, and 2 werewolf goons. Really. Really? That's the best bullshit you could come up with?

[Dwlee99]

you're reaching so hard

[Dwlee99]

Yes THREE scum kills in this game is totally winnable for town in any way.
pedit it is farfetched, it is so stupid

[Dwlee99]

The cop could receive town / not town and would therefore catch werewolves.

[Dwlee99]

Normal Guidelines

Sane Cop is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, while all other sanities are banned from Normal games. A Cop (or Seer) in a Normal game

must return the same results for all non-town roles

(excluding Godfather or Investigation-Immune Serial Killer) and for a Miller. Trying to investigate an Ascetic role should return "No Result", the same as if the Cop had been blocked.

[Dwlee99]

Normal Guidelines

Sane Cop is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, while all other sanities are banned from Normal games. A Cop (or Seer) in a Normal game

must return the same results for all non-town roles

(excluding Godfather or Investigation-Immune Serial Killer) and for a Miller. Trying to investigate an Ascetic role should return "No Result", the same as if the Cop had been blocked.

[Dwlee99]

Wait there was actually a serial killer? What the hell is this setup..

[Dwlee99]

The fact that we could have easily lost this and only didn't because someone forgot to submit a night kill when he lynched correctly every day, is.. wow
thanks for modding though xD

This was a very interesting game, glad we won.

[Dwlee99]

If I saved dram I'm gonna be really salty cause I was not targeting specifically because I didn't want to prevent crosskills >_>
pedit scum actually have to crosskill

[Dwlee99]

If you kill dwlee we would have been in 2-1-1, correct? In that case we have to no lynch and hope scum cross kill.

i trust firebringer to be honorable and kill you.

not killing you is playing against win con ~~
pedit joint wins for anti-town is stupid. They have different win conditions..

[Dwlee99]

"You must be the only faction alive oh but not really you're actually aligned and can win together"

[Dwlee99]

which give town wins they don't deserve.

orly

[Dwlee99]

depending on the situation i guess

[Dwlee99]

thanks for modding man, i legit had a blast.

[Dwlee99]

Although, dwlee did prevent a cross kill on dramonic and nahdia was 1 shot bp and ate a shot n1.

this is why I was going to no target :C

[Dwlee99]

One thing I noticed when reviewing this setup is that 2:1:1 is actually a three-faction draw, rather than the typically acknowledged town win. I had to wait for the game to be over to update the page, but it's been done now.

how is it a three-faction draw?

[Dwlee99]

Yeah, I got it from a strategy perspective, but there was a double voter. I think it's pretty dubious that a scum double voter could have lived in this setup, so I think it was pretty indefensible to not protect him n1.

I completely forgot about him when thinking about my action tbh

[Dwlee99]

better than forgetting to use your action all together ;___;

we deserved this win anyway!

[Dwlee99]

Ok if dwlee is scum I'll be really impressed. That game he quoted made me think he's not actually that good as scum lol.

Ay you gotta read the last 5ish days

[Dwlee99]

Really you should be mad at dwlee.