Mini 1805 [C'est fini!]

[Creature]

VOTE: Dwlee99

Since when you use brackets?

[Creature]

pedit creature wtf I used brackets last game we played..

Not before post 392.

[Creature]

Magic word?

[Creature]

VOTE: Robbnva

k

[Creature]

Okay, great.

[Creature]

We should declare dayphase is over and start piling our votes on Robbnva.

[Creature]

*RVS phase

[Creature]

I didn't see Eggman pulling an RQS in his other games.

[Creature]

Early townreads on Dwlee99 and Derek12.

[Creature]

Early townreads on Dwlee99 and Derek12.

Why?

Because of their pushes.

[Creature]

No, because I am feeling they're town and that what they were doing can't be easily faked.

[Creature]

Your inexperienced.

lol

We completed almost the same number of games.

[Creature]

but why are you trying to flaw my reads saying it can easily be faked? I can't have early townreads anymore?

[Creature]

I am townreading them, not "townreading them so much that I will follow them in every vote and never lynch them"

[Creature]

Unused to early town activity?

[Creature]

It's not weird for me. Scum are usually less concentrated this early and reads are easier to get.

[Creature]

Are we just going to discuss game theories?

[Creature]

Hello, everyone! General question: what's your favorite dessert?
VOTE: Creature (I won't lurk this time if you don't.)

Hello, I am not lurking, what about you?

[Creature]

Okay.

[Creature]

What do you think about Eggman's RQS?

It's not related to the game and usually his first posts are somewhat related to the game.

[Creature]

First Thoughts: 'Damn 3 pages already this game is hella active'
*reads the game*
3 people engaged in small chat... :\


VOTE: Creature
Somewhat serious vote, not entirely RVS. There's absolutely no way you're getting a town read from the very first post a person makes in the game. If you could I'd just copy/paste that post everywhere I went as scum and you'd be none the wiser. Possible that Creature is buddying, I don't like how he talks about 'early town activity' or some shit like that as if he's trying to seem a part of it.

This post fits perfectly a scum being opportunistic. Robbnva is having problems with early townreads, so what would stop scum from supporting him and make stupid lynches?

[Creature]

I'll give Dwlee benefit of doubt and assume he's being antagonistic for the sake of arguments/activity. Not an ideal tact imo given all the activity, so take the hint.

Looks like positioning. Instead of trying to sort Dwlee, he pockets Dwlee.

[Creature]

If Smithereens flips scum, it must make Robbnva very town-aligned.

VOTE: Smithereens

[Creature]

I don't feel safe saying Robbnva is town yet, if he says he's experienced, why would he bring this drama over my townreads?

[Creature]

So Robbnva agrees we are out of rvs yet..

1. Has trashed those with town reads
   
2. Has no scum reads

nice

Nobody really should have either at this point. It's too early to get strong reads

Exactly, where I said I have strong townreads?

[Creature]

Here's the thing. Most players see actions like being pro-active as a town tell. Smart scum notice these things and adapt because the point of the game as scum is to be town read as best as they can.

And why town shouldn't try to be pro-active too?

That's why some scum like to end Rvs as soon as possible because that's usually considered a town tell and people who prolong it are usually looked at suspicious.

And town don't?

Trying to start an Rvs wagon on somebody is easily the most common way to end Rvs. Now I can't say I've ever used that myself, I have seen scum do it.

You're right.

People always lecture me at "looking at motives" and imo those early pushes didn't feel natural to me, they felt forced in an attempt the end Rvs instead of letting it progress naturally. That's why I don't see those
actions as necessary town motivated. I also question people who do because it should be questioned.

The point is that, if you're town, you should try to contribute even early, if you're scum, you will try to get town cred for that.

Now back to creature. The post he made about not going to vote them for the remainder of the game rubbed me the wrong way. Nobody was accusing him of that and it felt out of place. If he were town I would think he would be more confident in his own opinions and wouldn't be rattled by somebody else's.

Wait, your intention was to rattle me?

[Creature]

atm487 and F-oh-ex are looking town for me.

atm487 looks different from his game as scum, here he's actually pushing his reads.

F-oh-ex's posts seemed to have a sort of scum hunting rather than scum trying to make noise.

[Creature]

I don't feel safe saying Robbnva is town yet, if he says he's experienced, why would he bring this drama over my townreads?

Questioning something suspicious is creating drama?

I can't call that questioning, at some point you tried to flaw my opinions. The different between town questioning and scum questioning is that town encourages someone to post more opinions, while scum does the opposite, like what you're doing saying they can be easily faking it.

[Creature]

More votes on Smithereens would be good.

[Creature]

I don't think there's preference, scum can take any side when it comes to a silly fight, but they'll try to go with who's most likely to accept them buddying or who they feel is less lynchable.

[Creature]

I was also conflited with post 124, but it sounds like he's developing his scum hunting rather than "I must try to be seem as scum hunting as much as possible"

[Creature]

atm487 and F-oh-ex are looking town for me.

atm487 looks different from his game as scum, here he's actually pushing his reads.

F-oh-ex's posts seemed to have a sort of scum hunting rather than scum trying to make noise.

I agree with these two points. ATM is acting differently from the last game I played with him.

And why you agree on F-oh-ex?

[Creature]

Smithereen's posts do seem scummy but two posts isn't enough for me to make a decision on.

but isn't it worth calling out? You can change your vote anytime anyway.

[Creature]

First Thoughts: 'Damn 3 pages already this game is hella active'
*reads the game*
3 people engaged in small chat... :\


VOTE: Creature
Somewhat serious vote, not entirely RVS.

There's absolutely no way you're getting a town read from the very first post a person makes in the game.

If you could I'd just copy/paste that post everywhere I went as scum and you'd be none the wiser. Possible that Creature is buddying, I don't like how he talks about 'early town activity' or some shit like that as if he's trying to seem a part of it.

This post fits perfectly a scum being opportunistic. Robbnva is having problems with early townreads, so what would stop scum from supporting him and make stupid lynches?

I believe this was the first non RVS vote of the game. How informed do you want it to be...? Read it in context please.

The bolded argument is incorrect, I didn't get a town read from the firstest post, but rather the next posts.

I find it pretty opportunistic the way you straight supported Robbnva at "can be easily faked" (see the bolded argument).

[Creature]

Okay so scum team is dragon, crazy and eggman. Thoughts?

So you think the scumteam in a 13-player game would be three people?

Well other than a slight(EMPASIS ON SLIGHT) scum read on Robb, I can't think on who to vote for

I was going to vote for atm based on Page 3 but his recent posts are much better, so this is where I'm at right now.

Have your reads changed any? Do you have anyone you'd rather vote for now?

Looks like a forced post.

[Creature]

^ I haven't made that post btw

[Creature]

Hello, everyone! General question: what's your favorite dessert?
VOTE: Creature (I won't lurk this time if you don't.)

Town {Derek12}
Null {Everyone else}
Scum {Eggman, Crazy, Robbnva}

Dwlee: Why us in particular?

UNVOTE: Creature[/vote]

If you can't see how it's easy to fake pushes early game then yes you are absolutely inexperienced. I've faked pushes late game as scum so early game is a breeze

Sounds like it would be making a case on someone with little to no evidence, or voting for them on a really bad reason.

Hello, everyone! General question: what's your favorite dessert?
VOTE: Creature (I won't lurk this time if you don't.)

Hello, I am not lurking, what about you?

I was asleep.

Dwlee and Robbnva's banter, to me, implies some sort of familiarity between the two, even though they're opposing each other.
F-oh-ex

Jsyk, this

is

my first game outside of Road to Rome. Go ahead, be a condescending prick and call me an idiot.

A little AtE-ey.

I'll ask you a question before my phone dies. What's your thoughts of atm who I basically guided him towards things he could give an opinion on and instead of doing that just started questioning me.

Dwlee, don't think you ever answered this

I can see him doing that as town or scum

So far Dwlee's given this answer twice. I think he's using that as an excuse to not form reads on the specific players, or to get out of not having them. Feels a little scummy to me. His 144 feels to me like he realized the above argument and thought it through.

I'll give Dwlee benefit of doubt and assume he's being antagonistic for the sake of arguments/activity. Not an ideal tact imo given all the activity, so take the hint.

Where do you see him being antagonistic?
I'll put my

Vote

on

Smithereens

for now, because I want to hear more from him.

Whoops.
UNVOTE: Creature*

Okay so scum team is dragon, crazy and eggman. Thoughts?

So you think the scumteam in a 13-player game would be three people?

Well other than a slight(EMPASIS ON SLIGHT) scum read on Robb, I can't think on who to vote for

I was going to vote for atm based on Page 3 but his recent posts are much better, so this is where I'm at right now.

Have your reads changed any? Do you have anyone you'd rather vote for now?

I don't see any scum hunting here.

[Creature]

Post 5 is an RQS that isn't even game-related.

Post 36 looks like scum trying to make Dwlee townread him.

Post 165 has no conclusion.

Post 188 sounds like pure noise/scum questioning.

[Creature]

VOTE: Eggman

[Creature]

@Creature, your stated reason for your town reads is that you don't think scum would push like that. This 'push' you referenced was literally their first post. I'm not sure what Robbnva has to do with this either.

"referenced"

Would like to see where I referenced the first post.

[Creature]

Okay then.

I think Mario is acting different from when I played with town!him, do you think he's showing hesitance in his reads?

[Creature]

Exactly, seeing gamesolving here.

[Creature]

I just realized I forgot that ending. Thanks Creature
What I was going to say was, F-oh-ex, Robb, and Dragon were the only ones to respond to my question.
On 188, I wanted to make a post to show I was reading, but I wasn't really sure what to say, so. Uh.
If it helps discussion any, right now I townread Dwlee, Dragon, and Creature.
Dwlee, because of the back-and-forth between him and Robb and his responses (they left me with a good feeling)
Dragon, because of gut mostly
and Creature, because in the other game I played with it (where it was mafioso) it didn't really post a lot and mostly lurked, and today it's been one of the most active players.

[Creature]

Nah, just to this:

but I still want more from him.

[Creature]

If I want more, I want more from people like Smith, Mario, atm487 and whoever I forgot.

[Creature]

that are soon going to be prodded

[Creature]

Hi mod.

I think it's time to prod Akigoku

[Creature]

Wow, 3 hours of no posts.

[Creature]

Okay, I think Robbnva is town seeing he's actually questioning as he said.

[Creature]

Townreads so far:
atm487
crazycrabman
Derek12
Dragon of the West
Dwlee99
F-oh-ex (kinda)
Robbnva

[Creature]

That leaves:
Akigoku
Eggman
MarioManiac4
Smithereens
stelo

[Creature]

Akigoku is most likely going to be replaced.

Eggman's posts feel like scum questioning, but at least he's trying.

MarioManiac4's reads look pure noise.

Smithereens looks opportunistic, but I am open to believe he might've misrepresented me.

stelo did an RVS vote but hasn't commented in the discussion I had with Robbnva.

[Creature]

Do you claim your town read is genuine? Or just an RVS construct as well?

I was being serious about townreading Derek12 and Dwlee99.

[Creature]

Sheeping is following someone's opinion.

[Creature]

VOTE: MarioManiac4

Let's go here, his play here is WAY different than his town play I know.

[Creature]

Mod

Can you prod Robbnva, MarioManiac4 and stelo?

[Creature]

Okay.

[Creature]

I've been ISOing everybody and:
- Eggman has crumbed VT, which I find very unlikely he'd do that as scum.
- There are 6 players scum reading him excluding me.

So I am no longer scumreading Eggman.

[Creature]

PEDIT: VT. It's why I did the RQS: "vanilla" ice cream

General question: what's your favorite dessert?

[Creature]

But I don't think Egg is the kind of player that does that.

[Creature]

I'd discount the number of people voting him, but honestly his crumb is pretty much genuine, so he's either VT or was planning to claim that, but I don't expect him to plan his claim tbh. Also, he's actually trying to contribute, which is a towntell for someone that looks pretty much mislynch bait (I've already played with him).

[Creature]

I just realized I forgot that ending. Thanks Creature
What I was going to say was, F-oh-ex, Robb, and Dragon were the only ones to respond to my question.
On 188, I wanted to make a post to show I was reading, but I wasn't really sure what to say, so. Uh.
If it helps discussion any, right now I townread Dwlee, Dragon, and Creature.
Dwlee, because of the back-and-forth between him and Robb and his responses (they left me with a good feeling)
Dragon, because of gut mostly
and Creature, because in the other game I played with it (where it was mafioso) it didn't really post a lot and mostly lurked, and today it's been one of the most active players.

[Creature]

It looks like, vanilla reminds me of ice cream and ice cream is a dessert. Also, I don't see anything anti-town at crumbing VT specially if it's hard to notice if not pointed out.

[Creature]

So his choice of question is a coincidence? He could ask something like "how many games you've played?" or "who's your favorite band?", but dessert isn't an usual question.

[Creature]

I can only see him doing that as scum if someone told him to.

[Creature]

I can only see him doing that as scum if someone told him to.

but you see him doing it as town? when he has never done an RQS ever before

Yes, as he's often lynched D1, he should be ready when it comes to him to claim.

[Creature]

*3 games

Okay, maybe not that often, but still think he's often a mislynch bait.

[Creature]

I don't understand why you're so worried to lynch Eggman or me, but didn't take a look at the others.

[Creature]

What do you think about crazy?

[Creature]

but I am townreading him.

[Creature]

Also, do you think Dragon of the West can be considered pro-town? He seems to be trying to get engaged, which is what he was trying to do in my other game with him where he was town.

[Creature]

Set-up specific
Daytalk is enabled.

[Creature]

I thought he was lynched D1 in more games than Newbie 1703, but I still feel like he's a mislynch bait.

[Creature]

I played with him at Newbie 1703, I watched him play Micro 614 and I heard about him in Newbie 1691.

[Creature]

From the posts I've been reading on Micro 614, there seemed to have lot of suspicion on Eggman.

[Creature]

I thought he was actually lynched Day 3, but scum was found at the same time thus resulting in game ending.

[Creature]

From the posts I've been reading on Micro 614, there seemed to have lot of suspicion on Eggman.

Why are you reading 614 now? You supposedly came to this conclusion before this game even started that Eggman was mislynch bait no?

That was before the game started.

[Creature]

And now we're discussing how much attention I was paying to Eggman's games...

[Creature]

But I feel like we've been too focused on Eggman.

[Creature]

Let me see:
- stelo and Akigoku did absolutely nothing.
- MarioManiac4 has just talked about his meta but stopped giving contributions.
- It's creepy how much tunneling there were.
- We have 7 days.
- I still think Eggman will flip town.

[Creature]

Eggman is reading me because I look different from Newbie 1703.

[Creature]

Also, we can return to Eggman anytime, so what's the problem with pressuring someone else specially when there are very few actively posting?

[Creature]

How much would your opinion on Eggman change then?

[Creature]

I find it so anti-town saying that if I flip town you're going to lynch Eggman anyway, either your logic is bad or I got a reason to change my view on you.

[Creature]

Smithereens

I don't understand why you're assuming me defending Eggman can't be scum whiteknighting town, are you hiding anything?

[Creature]

And now I'm not sure what to make of egg

unvote

Lots to think about now

What made you question your decision?

Pretty sure all of my reasonings have been posted. Finish catching up and if you still can't tell I'll point them out. I'm heading out to pick up my son.

This looks like an SvS interaction.

[Creature]

And now I'm not sure what to make of egg

unvote

Lots to think about now

What made you question your decision?

Pretty sure all of my reasonings have been posted. Finish catching up and if you still can't tell I'll point them out. I'm heading out to pick up my son.

This looks like an SvS interaction.

Why? I'm just asking him questions.

I am not fan of his approach on you.

[Creature]

I am thinking the whole scum team is in {Akigoku, crazycrabman, MarioManiac4, Robbnva, Smithereens, stelo}

[Creature]

I am thinking the whole scum team is in {Akigoku, crazycrabman, MarioManiac4, Robbnva, Smithereens, stelo}

So in no possible world you see eggman being scum, someone you were pushing against a few days ago.

I am townreading Eggman.

I am not townreading Akigoku, neither Mario, nor Robb or Smith, not even stelo, neither you.

[Creature]

I'm now on you scum list.

- You discredited my reads
- You said you question what you find worth, yet I only see you questioning me or Eggman
- You refuse to go anywhere but me or Eggman
- It seems like you're positioning to get two mislynches

[Creature]

There is. He never posted. He's scum reading a vacant slot

"not townreading"

[Creature]

crazy

Do you actually have any opinion on me vs Robbnva?

[Creature]

I am thinking the whole scum team is in {Akigoku, crazycrabman, MarioManiac4, Robbnva, Smithereens, stelo}

He's in your possible scum list which implies scum reading

He's in this list because I am townreading everybody else.

[Creature]

VOTE: crazycrabman

[Creature]

I am thinking the whole scum team is in {Akigoku, crazycrabman, MarioManiac4, Robbnva, Smithereens, stelo}

You're putting a person that has never posted onto the scum team? For real?

Are you even reading?

[Creature]

Because your read changes if someone calls you out (Robbnva and me).

[Creature]

"Who said I was scumreading X because Y?"

[Creature]

Strong townreads - Robbnva, Smithereens

Oh nice, my flip will give info that scum will have an easy win.

[Creature]

The scum team must probably be Robbnva, crazycrabman and some lurksack.

[Creature]

Mod

Can you prod MarioManiac4?

[Creature]

The scum team must probably be Robbnva, crazycrabman and some lurksack.

Have you even said why you think I'm scum? Catching you in a lie was some pretty damn good scum hunting and aside from omgus I can't imagine why anyone could be scum reading me. I'm making good logics posts left and right.

I'm now on you scum list.

- You discredited my reads
- You said you question what you find worth, yet I only see you questioning me or Eggman
- You refuse to go anywhere but me or Eggman
- It seems like you're positioning to get two mislynches

[Creature]

I find it so anti-town saying that if I flip town you're going to lynch Eggman anyway, either your logic is bad or I got a reason to change my view on you.

Who said they would lynch egg anyway if you flip town? Smitherines nor I said that

"I'm not sure on Eggman" = I'd lynch Eggman anyway

My approach is asking him to read my posts for the answers to my questions since I'm not able to quote them myself atm. What's wrong with that approach?

It looks dismissive.

"Who said I was scumreading X because Y?"

What was the point of this?

That looks like an excuse to put down your accusations.

[Creature]

1. That's a reach. Plus I made a post (post 453) that implies I'm not scum reading egg and actually said hisPost looks like he's town so you are REALLY making up stuff here.

You voted eggman in 403 and unvoted him in 441, the only posts Eggman did in that span were 407, 408 and 416 (which was just a question), yet you accused him in 410. What actually made you change your read?

2. Being busy is dismissive? Uh not really

Not the busy part, but the way you just said "go catch up"

3. Nobody accused me of anything so how could I be putting the accusation down. I was asking him to clarify who he saw doing that because I didn't see anyone doing that.

There is. He never posted. He's scum reading a vacant slot

Who was using that as a reason to scum read him?

If you'll say you wasn't using that to scumread me in 488, then what was the point of that post?

[Creature]

Nvm, you already answered the first.

[Creature]

It is impossible to have any read at all on a slot that hasn't posted. Nobody can have a town read, nobody can have a scum read. To include such a person into the scum pool is just plain dumb and I found it amusing.

"PoE pool"

It's nowhere dumb to narrow down scum.

[Creature]

Btw, don't this post bother you?

@F-oh-ex
I have Dwlee as null as I could see him flipping either way. I use the null spot as a spot for people who I see going in different directions depending on how the game plays out.

Could you ISO Dwlee and get back to me with an elaboration on your read?

Yeah, so reading through his posts it seems to me that he is genuinely scum hunting. But like you said before, he could be manipulating us. Currently, not judging anything but his ISO, I would have him somewhere between townlean and town. But I am hesitant to give him that townlean because say Creature flips town and eggman flips town, then out of the options available, i would have him as one of the main people I am watching out for and have him in scumlean. I think the problem we are having is that while many people read just off people's ISO, I believe that we should consider all the possibilities before we make a decision. I don't know if this is a good strategy because I have only tested it on one game, but it is what seems most fair to me.

[Creature]

I said I am townreading Eggman, not "I am townreading Eggman and nobody else"

[Creature]

i feel if you were town the 2 inactive players shouldn't even be in your pool of suspects at all because they have given nothing at all that can help read them better.

Exactly, they've given no town feeling, therefore they're scum candidates even if they didn't do anything particularly scummy. An inactive slot can still be a scum slot.

Your pool should be a group of people who you can sort of make a case/or provide reasons for why they are scum and those reasons have to be ones that actually make sense.

Huh no. I've had a game where I tracked my townreads and formed scumreads mostly by PoE rather than being able to make a case. If you can't make a case, that doesn't mean you can't say you think they're scum.

(If you want to check that game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=66693)

If you are going to town read people you also have to have good reasons for them. You don't even have good reasons for your egg town read so sorry if I am kind of skeptical about any of your other reads.

Isn't claim being genuine a good reason to townread?

What other townread you question? (atm487, Derek12, Dragon of The West, Dwlee99, F-oh-ex)

[Creature]

What about the way he claimed?

[Creature]

PEDIT: VT.

It's why I did the RQS: "vanilla" ice cream

[Creature]

The scum case on Eggman and Creature is so much more solid and you know it. You're just reaching for reasons to vote Crazy and that's something you called out creature for doing. A tad hypocritical if you ask me.

Sorry, but I can't see a town mindset saying that.

[Creature]

The scum case on Eggman and Creature is so much more solid and you know it. You're just reaching for reasons to vote Crazy and that's something you called out creature for doing. A tad hypocritical if you ask me.

Sorry, but I can't see a town mindset saying that.

You've coughed up a rather generic line to use here, and it doesn't fit the situation. Pleasure refer to your text book for a more suitable generic quote.

"I don't think town would refuse to join a wagon early in the game just because there's no case on the wagonee" ~Generic Quote

[Creature]

It's so funny when someone accuses me of lying but are lying themselves.

atm487 in Newbie 1715:
"How to vote?"
*hammers tojam2*

[Creature]

It's so funny when someone accuses me of lying but are lying themselves.

atm487 in Newbie 1715:
"How to vote?"
*hammers tojam2*

What's this? A solid reason to vote Atm in this game?

I do hope you're self aware enough to not say stupid things like this really... >.>

Someone said I looked like atm487.

[Creature]

Finally

[Creature]

VOTE: MarioManiac4

Let's force him to change his playstyle for this game.

[Creature]

The "lurking and doing nothing" playstyle he's using this game.

[Creature]

Hi Infinity 324

How's your catch up going?

[Creature]

atm487 looks like a mislynch bait tbh

[Creature]

But he seems to be trying to actually contribute here.

[Creature]

I want more from Dwlee on his crab case because I'm really not seeing it.
I'm definitely going to be more active this weekend, but I should be here more tonight too.

Hi.

Tonight, Mario.

Mario, Tonight.

[Creature]

So you dont have any reads on

anyone

?
Not even

a little

Where do you get that idea? Pretty sure I've stated mild suspicion on 2 people already.

can you name these two people? personally, I think its kinda of weird that you will just say "it is too early", i thought yea, maybe its too early but you can't just trash someone's reads and defend yourself. You need valid points on why so and so is not scum or town

So you dont have any reads on

anyone

?
Not even

a little

Where do you get that idea? Pretty sure I've stated mild suspicion on 2 people already.

can you name these two people? personally, I think its kinda of weird that you will just say "it is too early", i thought yea, maybe its too early but you can't just trash someone's reads and defend yourself. You need valid points on why so and so is not scum or town

OH, and then say that you have suspicion on people after saying that "it can easily be faked"

Well other than a slight(EMPASIS ON SLIGHT) scum read on Robb, I can't think on who to vote for

OK listen, so I have been inactive lately because I have had alot on my mind and some stuff happened, but listen. I know for a fact creature is town, his posts are very revealing and if he's playing scum, he very good, if not, then he is very good at town too, rooting out the obvious people that have been active, for now, I would like to re-review all the posts and wait a little before voting, because many of us have been active and I am having a hard time deciding who to vote for, my apologies

ok, I have decided
VOTE: Eggman
So far eggman has defended himself, but then shited blame to someone else. For example, he would, in one post, address all the claims against him with little defense, but insteadm address heavily why someone like Dwlee in scum or how someone else is suspicous. So this is why i am voting for him.

noone gonna hammer the scum?

atm487:

Do you have any scumreads that aren't Eggman currently?

so far, no, i'm still looking at all the posts, but other than Robb(only slight read) i can't think of anyone

Well the reason I am not calling Robb scum is because I feel that he is a slight scum lean. It just feels kinda weird, some of his posts just don't quite fit right with me

If anything VTs should try and give off a vibe they are a pr rather they are a vt

So this is one of the only ones I got a strong feel from. So lets say someone is town right, that means most of the time their actively scum-hunting and trying to win the game for the town. This vibe would be shown early on and you claim its better to show this vibe or to show your VT vibe rather than keep to your self until actual evidence can be used against people, but maybe this is just opinion. But instead of trying to be the person that is tryng to scum-hunt, you denouce your vote on my and hop on the wagon, even though you claimed to vote for me because I voted for you(idk actually why you voted for me). I'm trying to say that its weird that you try to scum-hunt but wait till the wagon is full enough to join without suspicion. I joined the wagon and presented my evidence why, why I had waited and why I thought it would be good to lynch eggman

OK so seeing robb's post(BTW your response hurt my feelings, and yes you did vote for me at one point) I believe he is town. He may be harsh to new players, but its obvious he did call me out on my bullshit and I am apologizing for basically wrongly accusing you, but still, some posts don't seem completely town, but so far, no posts have been scum in my opinion

[Creature]

Surely, if they were an average player I would push him harder, but compared to Newbie 1715, he looks very different.

[Creature]

I have a better proposal. We lynch Smithereens today and we'll get a good advantage over scum.

[Creature]

Do you suggest that Creature is a newb who doesn't know what the town win con looks like..?

Pretty sure I am playing to my town win con.

[Creature]

VOTE: Smithereens

[Creature]

Creature is not actively scum hunting.

Are you?

[Creature]

I flipped on the Eggman wagon because I felt the reason I've given was very coherent.

[Creature]

It looks like you're discrediting scum hunting as something that can easily be faked.

[Creature]

I flipped on the Eggman wagon because I felt the reason I've given was very coherent.

You were told that you were factually incorrect about the reason for backflipping. You didn't refute those reasons either, and now it seems we're back there again.

It doesn't break the fact Eggman's crumb seemed to come from town.

[Creature]

Yes. Scum hunting is easily faked. You'd know because you're voting me.

Then literally anything can be easily faked.

[Creature]

Doesn't it sound weird Smithereens pointed out the possibility I am just a newb to discredit any reads I've had this game?

[Creature]

But where did you pull that question from?

[Creature]

Creature, you only joined the site a few months ago, you are kind of a noob

But I don't play awfully/not to my wincon.

[Creature]

Do you think it's town saying everything can easily be faked and suggesting someone of not playing to their win condition?

[Creature]

I don't think scum can easily fake scum hunting.

[Creature]

Post #542: Robbnva has questioned "at least ha[lf] the player list" (running theme of pointing out his own accomplishments in-game)

Wouldn't that be a towntell?

Post #545: Robbnva explains doubts on Eggman lynch (fair post+)

Reconsidering Eggman is actually a good sign.

3.)

Dragon of the West seems to have transformed starting around Post #632. Prior to that he seemed to jump in to make inane comments, or comments seemingly designed to keep the day going in the direction it was already going (i.e., an Eggman or Creature lynch). I was ready to call him out for textbook active lurking. Now he has "softened" his read after the wagon has substantially ebbed.

Forgot to mention that my DotW townread is long gone. I know it's usual him focusing on his scumreads, but doubtcasting reads?

1. You're like the second person to have issues with the "I'm not scum but" thing. Why? If you are accused of being scum and you aren't the natural reaction is to deny that you are scum.

What bothers more is the "in my watch list", looks like pocketing/dismissing.

3. Not sure why you have an issue with 154. That was a genuine post

7. it is ridiculous that he's scum reading a vacant slot and from his post there is NO WAY you or anyone else can determine he's using Poe. You are letting your bias show with this one.

Why not? I said I highly believe scum is in that list, not that I was scumreading all of them.

11. More nitpicky stuff. Like there is seriously nothing wrong with requesting a scummy player being investigated or me voting a person I'm scum reading.

By saying who should be investigated, you're saying who scum should NK.

[Creature]

Putting them in your list just for the sake of having a list is poor play. They have to remain in the null category until they have provided content you can analyze.

The purpose of my list was to narrow down scum (or try to), I can't put nullreads out of my list when they've done nothing that pings town.

[Creature]

I liked his catch up, but I agree that some of the points he raised against Robbnva look nitpicky.

[Creature]

- Derek12, Dwlee99, Infinity 324
- atm487, Eggman
- F-oh-ex, petroleumjelly
- Dragon of the West, Robbnva
- crazycrabman, MarioManiac4, Smithereens

[Creature]

I feel like we're close to solving the game, so I am fine with your tunneling.

[Creature]

What do you think about Dragon of the West?

[Creature]

Anyone up to answer that.

[Creature]

I've had him as townlean for most of the game, because he seemed to be trying to get engaged in the discussion. Though, his recent posts are starting to worry me, it seems like he wants to make sure me or Eggman is lynched today.

[Creature]

I like my vote where it is, I gut scum read mario and that slot needs pressure.

I am up to go over the lynch threat level.

What do you make of crabman changing his meta so dramatically from the other game that a lot of the same players were in?

tbh I can't get a conclusion on that dramatical playstyle change and "I don't know what to do" reaction, though, I can't let him go that easy.

What's your read on dragon?

I've had him as townlean for most of the game, because he seemed to be trying to get engaged in the discussion. Though, his recent posts are starting to worry me, it seems like he wants to make sure me or Eggman is lynched today.

[Creature]

tbh I am feeling safer with a Mario lynch.

[Creature]

The problem of leaving Mario alive is that he'll keep lurking and stay unreadable. Even if we investigate him, what he'll do? Lurk more? If we lynch him, at least we'll let who's interested in playing alive longer, have more active days and keep it clear that active lurking will end in this.

[Creature]

A person who acts scummy as shit and does a complete 180 and somehow magically sees a breadcrumb THAT NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED

Yeah, because town should always let their townreads get lynched.

[Creature]

A person who acts scummy as shit and does a complete 180 and somehow magically sees a breadcrumb THAT NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED

Yeah, because town should always let their townreads get lynched.

How does "protecting a townread" explain a blatant lie?

Isn't it obvious my intention wasn't to lie, but rather say what I think?

[Creature]

I am thinking Robbnva is town, but that'd be funny if he won as scum by being emotional.

[Creature]

I don't think it's a scumslip.

[Creature]

Smithereens- nothing really of note.

[Creature]

VOTE: MarioManiac4

I don't think you're trying to comment on the current situation.

[Creature]

I don't think this was a slip tbh.

Clear something up for me here.

This first quote implies your scum list is Derek, me, or crab

I'll vote robb or crab at deadline though cause those are my weaker town reads

That looks like he's scumreading Derek most, but from the current wagons/focus, he'd join Robb or crab

But this quote has your list as Derek, Mario, and petroleum (which contradicts your previous post)

From scummiest to towniest, it goes something like this:
Derek, Mario, petroleum, dragon, crab, atm, robb, dwlee, eggman, f-oh-ex, smith, creature

petroleum wagon seems pretty unlikely at this point. Regarding Mario, he said his slot needed more pressure

And this post contradicts again having petroleum now as a lean town

petroleum is a null to slight lean town, others go up from there. So yeah, too many townreads

I think he has only two scumreads, because he seems to be townreading everybody else, but listed his weaker to stronger townreads

Um your slip is showing bro

vote infinity

Final answer

[Creature]

I don't think this was a slip tbh.

I'm pretty sure a big part of Robb's argument is that having a weak town lean on what you consider the third scummiest player isn't a good thing.

It isn't a good thing but doesn't point that's scum. Some town sometimes get paranoid when their scumreads start looking town and they don't have much scum candidates, I already was in that spot, but I tried to take another look at my townreads. It's possible Infinity 324 wanted to share his reads before re-analysing them.

[Creature]

Creature. you used Poe earlier so if you are town you can't be this dense.

Why not? Getting townreads is easier than getting scumreads, at least you get some way to sort those you can't read.

Also, I think you mean't crab.

[Creature]

Btw, if Mario flips scum, I'll see Smith as town because I don't think Mario would mention his scumbuddy like this.

[Creature]

T

h

e

p

l

a

y

e

r

s

[01]

Smithereens

[02]

Creature

[03]

MarioManiac4

[04]

Robbnva

[05]

Dwlee99

[06]

petroleumjelly

< stelo

[07]

Dragon of the West

[08]

Derek12

[09]

Infinity 324

< Akigoku

[10]

F-oh-ex

[11]

Eggman

[12]

atm487

[13]

crazycrabman

[Creature]

Still think Infinity 324 is town.

[Creature]

T

h

e

p

l

a

y

e

r

s

[01]

Smithereens

[02]

Creature

[03]

MarioManiac4

[04]

Robbnva

[05]

Dwlee99

[06]

petroleumjelly

< stelo

[07]

Dragon of the West

[08]

Derek12

[09]

Infinity 324

< Akigoku

[10]

F-oh-ex

[11]

Eggman

[12]

atm487

[13]

crazycrabman

[Creature]

petroleumjelly's posts really seemed town tbh

[Creature]

T

h

e

p

l

a

y

e

r

s

[01]

Smithereens

[02]

Creature

[03]

MarioManiac4

[04]

Robbnva

[05]

Dwlee99

[06]

petroleumjelly

< stelo

[07]

Dragon of the West

[08]

Derek12

[09]

Infinity 324

< Akigoku

[10]

F-oh-ex

[11]

Eggman

[12]

atm487

[13]

crazycrabman

[Creature]

Yeah, Robbnva is probably town, but I don't agree with most of his posts.

[Creature]

T

h

e

p

l

a

y

e

r

s

[01]

Smithereens

[02]

Creature

[03]

MarioManiac4

[04]

Robbnva

[05]

Dwlee99

[06]

petroleumjelly

< stelo

[07]

Dragon of the West

[08]

Derek12

[09]

Infinity 324

< Akigoku

[10]

F-oh-ex

[11]

Eggman

[12]

atm487

[13]

crazycrabman

[Creature]

^ These are the ones I am going to re-ISO

[Creature]

^ These are the ones I am going to re-ISO

Which set? The ones you crossed out?

The ones that weren't.

[Creature]

Actually, uncross Infinity 324.

[Creature]

T

h

e

p

l

a

y

e

r

s

[01]

Smithereens

[02]

Creature

[03]

MarioManiac4

[04]

Robbnva

[05]

Dwlee99

[06]

petroleumjelly

< stelo

[07]

Dragon of the West

[08]

Derek12

[09]

Infinity 324

< Akigoku

[10]

F-oh-ex

[11]

Eggman

[12]

atm487

[13]

crazycrabman

[Creature]

Dwlee99 having a bad scumgame makes me feel safer.

[Creature]

T

h

e

p

l

a

y

e

r

s

[01]

Smithereens

[02]

Creature

[03]

MarioManiac4

[04]

Robbnva

[05]

Dwlee99

[06]

petroleumjelly

< stelo

[07]

Dragon of the West

[08]

Derek12

[09]

Infinity 324

< Akigoku

[10]

F-oh-ex

[11]

Eggman

[12]

atm487

[13]

crazycrabman

[Creature]

Maybe not that bad, but enough to see a difference between his town and scum play.

[Creature]

Dwlee99

I actually read the Musical Mafia.

[Creature]

Creature though immediately "saw" the crumb, even after Dwlee99 made a post along the lines of "lol wut where is the crumb". And Creature continues to speak about Eggman having crumbed it. Robb has pointed it out a few times and so have I - why is Creature magically seeing Eggman's crumb, if even Eggman admitted that crumb didn't happen? Why is everyone ignoring it?

It's sort of a crumb. Why would he ask what's everyone's favorite dessert?

[Creature]

So you believe Eggman is Town based not even on the fact that he crumbed something, but on the fact that he posed a RQS?

Yes, it still fits as a good crumb.

[Creature]

Dragon is looking town now.

[Creature]

I would still rather lynch Creature today.

You're saying that thousand times.

[Creature]

Glad I started to reconsider my reads, I feel like I placed obvscums on my original reads.

[Creature]

T

h

e

p

l

a

y

e

r

s

[01]

Smithereens

[02]

Creature

[03]

MarioManiac4

[04]

Robbnva

[05]

Dwlee99

[06]

petroleumjelly

< stelo

[07]

Dragon of the West

[08]

Derek12

[09]

Infinity 324

< Akigoku

[10]

F-oh-ex

[11]

Eggman

[12]

atm487

[13]

crazycrabman

[Creature]

PEDIT: VT. It's why I did the RQS: "vanilla" ice cream

In F-oh-ex's eyes, this sentence doesn't exist.

[Creature]

It's a hint anyway and I have my reasons to think it's a crumb.

[Creature]

If you don't understand, I am sorry, but there's something in that sentence and you can't just assume I magically saw the crumb.

[Creature]

Tell me what was the intention of the RQS and why he decided to point it while claiming then.

[Creature]

wtf

If you're townreading atm487, why you want to policy lynch him later?

[Creature]

He was going to crumb, here's the hint.

[Creature]

Why would anyone want a player like him to be the deciding vote in a MyLo/LyLo situation?

tbh I also don't want to be with you in a MyLo/LyLo, specially if you're town-aligned.

[Creature]

Once again, but he didn't. And since he didn't, he could have just as easily said "I was going to answer in a different way which would crumb the power role I claim". The value of such a "crumb" is nigh-null.

But I don't see him doing that as scum, specially this early.

[Creature]

And this is the situation scum can most take opportunity of.

[Creature]

Help me there:

Pro-Egg: Creature, Infinity 324
Anti-Egg: F-oh-ex, crazycrabman, Dragon of the West
Rest: Dwlee99, Robbnva, petroleumjelly, MarioManiac4, Smithereens, Derek12, atm487

[Creature]

Help me there:

Pro-Egg: Creature, Infinity 324
Anti-Egg: F-oh-ex, crazycrabman, Dragon of the West, atm487, Smithereens
Rest: Dwlee99, Robbnva, petroleumjelly, MarioManiac4, Derek12

[Creature]

Although, I must say, that's a bit weird way of dividing the playerlist day 1. Whatever yields good fruit though.

I'll see who's taking opportunity of this Egg drama.

[Creature]

Mario goes Anti-Egg camp I guess, the rest look undecided.

[Creature]

When I refer to opportunity, I don't mean "getting an easily mislynch"

When there's a major discussion, it's just simple to scum take a side (preferably different sides to make them less associative) and slide under the radar.

[Creature]

Eggman, it's L-2 both wagons.

[Creature]

I'll hammer whichever wagon gets 6 votes when the deadline is close, but if both are on 6 votes, I'll give preference to hammer MM4.

[Creature]

MM4 and crazy

That'd be great if you could at least post your thoughts, but if you want, you can play avoiding spew if you're scum.

[Creature]

Oh right, I forgot I was voting MM4 already.

[Creature]

And the ones off-wagon are: MM4, crazy and atm487.

lol

[Creature]

I'll hammer crazy if he's at L-1, but I'll wait him do his spews/final thoughts/claim until the deadline is 2 hours to end (or earlier if I won't get in time).

[Creature]

Waiting...

[Creature]

Should I finish gamesolving or wait a little more?