Mini 1805 [C'est fini!]

[crazycrabman]

Hey! Will read the 4 pages tonight!

[crazycrabman]

VOTE: Crazycrab sheep

Sheep?

[crazycrabman]

atm487 and F-oh-ex are looking town for me.

atm487 looks different from his game as scum, here he's actually pushing his reads.

F-oh-ex's posts seemed to have a sort of scum hunting rather than scum trying to make noise.

I agree with these two points. ATM is acting differently from the last game I played with him.

[crazycrabman]

So far I feel that this is creature's town game. His posts feel to me to be made in a manner scum wouldn't, which from my limited experience is more hesitant to start a wagon and draw attention to themselves.

[crazycrabman]

Smithereen's posts do seem scummy but two posts isn't enough for me to make a decision on.

[crazycrabman]

So you think the scumteam in a 13-player game would be three people?

That sounds like he was trying to force a townslip out of himself.

[crazycrabman]

I don't like eggman's posts so far in general and i'd like to see more defense/scum hunting from him. Until then, VOTE: Eggman

I agree that his posts are funny but not being that actively scum hunting doesn't mean he's scum. I for instance aren't that active but I'm still town.

[crazycrabman]

Creature, because in the other game I played with it (where it was mafioso) it didn't really post a lot and mostly lurked, and today it's been one of the most active players.

The last game I played with Creature, it was one of the most active out of all of us. And was town.

[crazycrabman]

Creature, because in the other game I played with it (where it was mafioso) it didn't really post a lot and mostly lurked, and today it's been one of the most active players.

The last game I played with Creature, it was one of the most active out of all of us. And was town.

Misread that post sorry, Thought you were saying your scumreads not your townreads.

[crazycrabman]

VOTE: crazycrabman

I'm not liking crazy's ISO right now. I'm excluding his first post since it's just a declaration that he's going to read through he game.

101 - Pretty pointless question to atm.

172 - Sheeping Creature

I have no idea what sheeping is and nobody answered my question of what it is.

174 - He calls Smithereen's first two posts scummy. but is reluctant to scum read him for it.

Yeah, I'm reluctant to scum read Smithereen on two posts that he made. Two posts is not enough to judge anyone on.

205 + 211 - Like before, calls Eggman's posts "funny" but is reluctant to scumread him. Gives Eggman a pass for not actively scumhunting because he isn't either?

Again, I'm not going to throw my vote around for a few comments. With thirteen people in the game, there's a high probability to mislynch.
Yeah, I give Eggman a pass for not actively scumhunting because life happens and you can't be at your computer all the time.

Other then his Creature town read, I don't really see any instances of him trying to figure the game out or scum hunt. What little suspicion he's placed on people is also quite non-committal. I want crazycrabman to give us his scumreads.

I agree, I will not commit to a random suspicion I have. That said, I don't have a read on anybody that I'm willing to lynch right now. I do have a suspicion of eggman, but I won't throw my vote out at him for it.

[crazycrabman]

Sheeping is following someone's opinion.

OK, Thanks!

[crazycrabman]

L-2 @Eggman

[crazycrabman]

????

[crazycrabman]

I think that the "what's your favorite desert question" was definitely on purpose. I don't know what way that points eggman, though.

[crazycrabman]

Yeah, I'm reluctant to scum read Smithereen on two posts that he made. Two posts is not enough to judge anyone on.

He's posted more since then, what are your thoughts on the posts?

I think that the "what's your favorite desert question" was definitely on purpose. I don't know what way that points eggman, though.

Ok so, do you have any thoughts on Eggman beyond this? Or any player not named Creature? Your recent posts still have little to no real content.

----

As for the VT crumb I don't really see crumbing VT as alignment indicative. It seems kinda pointless as both town and scum, and I could see him doing it as either alignment. I still think crazy is a better wagon, which is why people should join me on it.

1- I'm have a minor townlean on smithereen now and I feel his attitude is what I expect from town.
2- I feel that eggman is acting odd and I feel that cruming VT is what scum would tell him to do day 1. It is possible that he just found out about crumbing and thought it would be a way to dissuade any suspicion against him. I'll be doing a chart later today on town and scum reads.

[crazycrabman]

atm487 and F-oh-ex are looking town for me.

atm487 looks different from his game as scum, here he's actually pushing his reads.

F-oh-ex's posts seemed to have a sort of scum hunting rather than scum trying to make noise.

I agree with these two points. ATM is acting differently from the last game I played with him.

Since you agree can you do the same that I asked creature? Links to the posts f-oh-ex made that look like scum hunting?

Also as I stated earlier atm really didn't give any reads, rather avoided giving opinions imo. The only thing he gave was a very slight read on me and he wasn't even pushing me

I see him scumhunting in posts 5, 6, and 8 in his ISO.
About ATM, last game I played with him he was very apprehensive of criticism and did give reads on some poeple.

[crazycrabman]

I am very open to change but currently:
town {}
townlean {Atm, Creature, Derek, Smithereens}
null {Dwlee, DotW, F-oh-ex, Robnva}
scumlean {Eggman, Mario*, Stelo*}
scum {}

*Due to inactivity

[crazycrabman]

Hello! Reading through last nights posts...

[crazycrabman]

Crabman:

In your 401, you said you'd make a chart later today. Well, it's later - did you chart it out?

That chart was literally the post before you posted that... The only explanation I have for that is that you were on a different page and didn't even check if I had posted anything....

[crazycrabman]

Also you think me putting somebody to l-1 is hopping the wagon without suspicion? If I'm wrong about egg and he flips town historically people look at the people who joined the wagon late so if anything I've put a bigger spotlight on myself especially when I said earlier that we should take our time and now a day or 2 later I'm putting him back to l-1.

WIFOM I believe.

[crazycrabman]

And now I'm not sure what to make of egg

unvote

Lots to think about now

What made you question your decision?

[crazycrabman]

But if you are more suspicious of creature your vote should be on creature. You even thought he was lying about eggs games and I proved he was and you don't vote him?

That just strikes me as weird. Id like to see creature get a few more votes on him.

Sometimes more information can be gained by lynching someone who could flp either way, like in my last and first game the tojam lynch would provide valuable information no matter how he flipped, and it led to my investigation of LicketyQuickety, which ultimatly led to scums downfall.

[crazycrabman]

And now I'm not sure what to make of egg

unvote

Lots to think about now

What made you question your decision?

Pretty sure all of my reasonings have been posted. Finish catching up and if you still can't tell I'll point them out. I'm heading out to pick up my son.

If you posted them within the past few pages, I have no idea where they are.

[crazycrabman]

Also, I feel Robbnva is either very set in his ways and doesn't like people not agreeing with him, or he is trying to push ways of thinking which points him as town.

[crazycrabman]

And now I'm not sure what to make of egg

unvote

Lots to think about now

What made you question your decision?

Pretty sure all of my reasonings have been posted. Finish catching up and if you still can't tell I'll point them out. I'm heading out to pick up my son.

This looks like an SvS interaction.

Why? I'm just asking him questions.

[crazycrabman]

I am thinking the whole scum team is in {Akigoku, crazycrabman, MarioManiac4, Robbnva, Smithereens, stelo}

So in no possible world you see eggman being scum, someone you were pushing against a few days ago.

[crazycrabman]

I find that scummy.

[crazycrabman]

My attitude has changed with these last few pages:
town {Smithereens}
townlean {Atm, Derek}
null {Dwlee, DotW, F-oh-ex}
scumlean {Eggman, Creature, Robnva, Mario*, Stelo*}
scum {}

*Due to inactivity

[crazycrabman]

I am thinking the whole scum team is in {Akigoku, crazycrabman, MarioManiac4, Robbnva, Smithereens, stelo}

So in no possible world you see eggman being scum, someone you were pushing against a few days ago.

I am townreading Eggman.

I am not townreading Akigoku, neither Mario, nor Robb or Smith, not even stelo, neither you.

I don't think there's an Akigoku in this game -_-

[crazycrabman]

Lol how did i go from null to scumlean?

You said yourself that you had enough posts that you shouldn't be in null. After reviewing your many posts, I believe you fit in the scumlean category.

[crazycrabman]

There is. He never posted. He's scum reading a vacant slot

O wow I didn't realize that.

[crazycrabman]

crazy

Do you actually have any opinion on me vs Robbnva?

I believe one or the other of you are scum. If not both.

[crazycrabman]

I believe I stated that in my chart

[crazycrabman]

Also, I feel Robbnva is either very set in his ways and doesn't like people not agreeing with him, or he is trying to push ways of thinking which points him as town.

Pushing ways of thinking isn't town to me. Scum would definitely try to use suddle logical fallicies or misrepresent ways of thinking to get mislynches or people on their side

Yeah, that's the scum side.

[crazycrabman]

All I've done this last few pages is criticize you and Robbnva, why would that change your mind and make you vote for me? Are you uncomfortable with criticism?

[crazycrabman]

Last post of mine directed to creature

[crazycrabman]

Because your read changes if someone calls you out (Robbnva and me).

I'll take that as a yes

[crazycrabman]

Also, I feel Robbnva is either very set in his ways and doesn't like people not agreeing with him, or he is trying to push ways of thinking which points him as town.

Pushing ways of thinking isn't town to me. Scum would definitely try to use suddle logical fallicies or misrepresent ways of thinking to get mislynches or people on their side

Yeah, that's the scum side.

But you said that pointed him as town sooo...

No, the town side is him very set in his ways and not liking when people go against that. The scum side is him pushing his way of thinking.

Pedit- Ohhhhh, I just read my post. That was a mistype. Sorry

[crazycrabman]

okay actually the push on creature for putting someone who hasn't posted in his possible scum team is total bull crap.
I've done things like that before, where I say the scum team is in:
blahblahblah
not necessarily because everyone in that list I am scum reading super hard, but rather because I am using process of elimination and removing everyone I am town reading.
VOTE: crazy

I agree, he push on creature for that was stupid, which is why i wasn't a part of it.

Unrelated question: Why the vote on me?

[crazycrabman]

I feel there is enough evidence to VOTE: Creature

[crazycrabman]

@F-oh-ex
I have Dwlee as null as I could see him flipping either way. I use the null spot as a spot for people who I see going in different directions depending on how the game plays out.

[crazycrabman]

@F-oh-ex
I have Dwlee as null as I could see him flipping either way. I use the null spot as a spot for people who I see going in different directions depending on how the game plays out.

Could you ISO Dwlee and get back to me with an elaboration on your read?

Yeah, so reading through his posts it seems to me that he is genuinely scum hunting. But like you said before, he could be manipulating us. Currently, not judging anything but his ISO, I would have him somewhere between townlean and town. But I am hesitant to give him that townlean because say Creature flips town and eggman flips town, then out of the options available, i would have him as one of the main people I am watching out for and have him in scumlean. I think the problem we are having is that while many people read just off people's ISO, I believe that we should consider all the possibilities before we make a decision. I don't know if this is a good strategy because I have only tested it on one game, but it is what seems most fair to me.

[crazycrabman]

@F-oh-ex
I have Dwlee as null as I could see him flipping either way. I use the null spot as a spot for people who I see going in different directions depending on how the game plays out.

Could you ISO Dwlee and get back to me with an elaboration on your read?

Yeah, so reading through his posts it seems to me that he is genuinely scum hunting. But like you said before, he could be manipulating us. Currently, not judging anything but his ISO, I would have him somewhere between townlean and town. But I am hesitant to give him that townlean because say Creature flips town and eggman flips town, then out of the options available, i would have him as one of the main people I am watching out for and have him in scumlean. I think the problem we are having is that while many people read just off people's ISO, I believe that we should consider all the possibilities before we make a decision. I don't know if this is a good strategy because I have only tested it on one game, but it is what seems most fair to me.

Well, of course that the reads change if a situation requires them to. And between townlean and town, huh? That's a major shift from null.
And notice that while I made a note about being afraid of Dwlee being a brilliant scum, that doesn't mean I don't townread him. Anyone could "go either way" so that's not a good reason for nullreading imo.

So I guess my strategy needs revising. I don't see how that is alignment indicative though.

[crazycrabman]

I see there's four votes on me now. I really can't argue against this wagon because it is concerning the strategy I was testing this game. I can't edit all my posts so hey fit another strategy and just saying "I'm town" won't convince anyone. I could try to justify my reasoning but I already tried that and that didn't work so what else can I do?

[crazycrabman]

I guess I can start by rebutting this.

The only issue I really see with this one is he is kind of suggesting (at least in a hypothetical way) that we lynch you and egg first. I do agree that dwlee comes off looking very town and also agree that he could possibly be scum manipulating.

Yeah, that was purely hypothetical and was a situation I used to illustrate my point.

actually I have issues with the "we should consider all the possibilities" part. He should concern himself with his own reads and go from there.

I started that sentence with "I believe". It was my belief on what seems the most fair way to conduct scum hunting. I'm not saying that anyone else should follow this belief.

[crazycrabman]

Dwlee your scum reads in Eggman and Creature are both on the crazy wagon and that doesn't at all concern you?? WTF?!

who said I was still scum reading them?

Is this to say that you're not scum reading them?

:OO

I mean, what does that even mean? Is that a dude with a hoop chin piercing or a guy with a hole in his neck???

[crazycrabman]

Yes I realize that but that doesn't change what I said. This "strategy" isn't working for you in your words. You are asking yourself what else you can do but you just quoted the answer to your question.

I meant for this game. Changing my strat now won't make it different in the past.

[crazycrabman]

I don't even know what the right strategy is so fake changing it now would just be lying to myself and make me more of a mislynch bait.

[crazycrabman]

Everyone, no matter what alignment, worries that when they said something wrong others will blame them for it. Except maybe Dwlee

[crazycrabman]

You see? Nothing I can do. I guess i'll ride this one out...

[crazycrabman]

Idk why you even have a strategy.

Ugh now I'm really starting to think Derek has a point about crab

I'm going to assume you mean first-time scum and not crabs are the worst seafood

[crazycrabman]

Funny thing is is that I haven't experienced either eating crabs or being scum...

[crazycrabman]

I believe that Creature and some lurker is scum. I believe creature is scum because his attitude fits that of scum and his posting style. This is a result of a flawed strategy so take it with a grain of salt. I know you are going to say t re-read the game with a different mindset but anything different besides the one I have used and am using right now would be lying to myself.

[crazycrabman]

You see? Nothing I can do. I guess i'll ride this one out...

I literally told you what you should do and you made excuses why you can't do it.

Please quote that instance because out of the three posts of yours since I last came on (not counting this one) I don't see where you told me what to do. You hinted about changing my strat but that isn't "literal" and doesn't count. I guess you told me not to worry about the past but that isn't really advice.

[crazycrabman]

"some lurker"
so {MM4, Akigoku, Stelo}

Yeah. I don't think they have been online for awhile btw but by lurker I meant inactive

[crazycrabman]

Hello! Sorry about yesterday, I was pretty stressed! That does not mean that I'm asking you to forget about it and you should not change yours views on it because of it. I'll reread the two pages of posts and answer some questions i saw.

[crazycrabman]

I see there's four votes on me now. I really can't argue against this wagon because it is concerning the strategy I was testing this game. I can't edit all my posts so hey fit another strategy and just saying "I'm town" won't convince anyone. I could try to justify my reasoning but I already tried that and that didn't work so what else can I do?

What are you even talking about. You can't defend your posts by citing some sort of strategy that none of us have any clue about. This is pretty meaningless to anyone outside of yourself.

The strategy I was referring to was to consider all the possibilities before putting them on your list of reads. Apparently this does not work according to some people.

I believe that Creature and some lurker is scum. I believe creature is scum because his attitude fits that of scum and his posting style. This is a result of a flawed strategy so take it with a grain of salt. I know you are going to say t re-read the game with a different mindset but anything different besides the one I have used and am using right now would be lying to myself.

scumlean {

Eggman

, Creature,

Robnva

, Mario*, Stelo*}
*Due to inactivity

Did you forget about your other two scumleans? Also what changed between Creature's posting style now and earlygame that caused your scumread? You seemed to like his posting style before.

No, I didn't forget abut them, I was asked who I thought the scum team was I believe (or that's how I interpreted it), and that's who I think it is.
Also, many things changed between creature's early game and now. Early on he acted like he did in my first game with him, where he was town. Now he is acting a lot different, a bit like atm in that first game. I did like his posting style before, but not now.

[crazycrabman]

Crab. Your other game you did this big wall of players and explained your reads and put them in scummy order and stuff. You explained your reasons and you were pretty close to being right.

Why would you try a new strategy if that worked so good for you?

How do I know it worked so well from one game? I'm learning from my mistakes and trying out many things.
Yeah, I was pretty hyped the first game as I waited awhile for it and I got a power role. This game I'm a bit low on energy as that hype is burning off.

[crazycrabman]

Yeah, so reading through his posts it seems to me that he is genuinely scum hunting. But like you said before, he could be manipulating us. Currently, not judging anything but his ISO, I would have him somewhere between townlean and town. But I am hesitant to give him that townlean because say Creature flips town and eggman flips town, then out of the options available, i would have him as one of the main people I am watching out for and have him in scumlean. I think the problem we are having is that while many people read just off people's ISO, I believe that we should consider all the possibilities before we make a decision. I don't know if this is a good strategy because I have only tested it on one game, but it is what seems most fair to me.

I was referring to this as my strategy.

[crazycrabman]

Crab. Your other game you did this big wall of players and explained your reads and put them in scummy order and stuff. You explained your reasons and you were pretty close to being right.

Why would you try a new strategy if that worked so good for you?

How do I know it worked so well from one game? I'm learning from my mistakes and trying out many things.
Yeah, I was pretty hyped the first game as I waited awhile for it and I got a power role. This game I'm a bit low on energy as that hype is burning off.

Your reads that game were near perfect. What mistakes?

I was referring to this game.

[crazycrabman]

Also, many things changed between creature's early game and now. Early on he acted like he did in my first game with him, where he was town. Now he is acting a lot different, a bit like atm in that first game. I did like his posting style before

Explain. How creature is acting like atm. Use examples from that game if it'll help.

Ok sure. One sec.

[crazycrabman]

So when I mean acting like atm, I mean more apprehensive to criticism. Last game when there was pressure put on him he was pretty cool and collected. This game he seems more on end. Some examples:

I am thinking the whole scum team is in {Akigoku, crazycrabman, MarioManiac4, Robbnva, Smithereens, stelo}

You're putting a person that has never posted onto the scum team? For real?

Are you even reading?

And now I'm not sure what to make of egg

unvote

Lots to think about now

What made you question your decision?

Pretty sure all of my reasonings have been posted. Finish catching up and if you still can't tell I'll point them out. I'm heading out to pick up my son.

This looks like an SvS interaction.

Here I feel he is trying to create confusion and noise.

crazy

Do you actually have any opinion on me vs Robbnva?

Again, noise.

So basically I get a tense vibe from him through his posts. He is definitely not like atm in that he asks questions like "how to vote", but I feel he's giving off the same feel atm gave off the first game I played with them.

[crazycrabman]

What is the lie that people are talking about? Is it the one where you say eggman is mislynch bait?

[crazycrabman]

Hello! Sorry I've been gone, I've been busy with stuff. From my viewpoint jelly looks town. I will also be gone tomorrow (4th of July) and the next day (my birthday) and I hope you'll excuse my absence.

[crazycrabman]

4.)

crazycrabman, why were Robbnva and Creature knocked down in your updated 'chart' to a scumlean?

Relatedly, could you please elaborate on these posts:

I believe that Creature and some lurker is scum. I believe creature is scum because his attitude fits that of scum and his posting style. This is a result of a flawed strategy so take it with a grain of salt. I know you are going to say t re-read the game with a different mindset but anything different besides the one I have used and am using right now would be lying to myself.

Also, many things changed between creature's early game and now. Early on he acted like he did in my first game with him, where he was town. Now he is acting a lot different, a bit like atm in that first game. I did like his posting style before, but not now.

Early game I had a strong town read on Creature. When I put up the first "chart" I was wavering a bit on that judgement. Then when the whole eggman crumb came to pass, I felt that creature was tied to eggman, and dropped him down to scumlean.
Then when Robbnva started throwing minor accusations against me and others I felt as if he was warding off the Creature lynch and thus I dropped him down. Currently I can see the game going two ways. I could see the creature wagon being staged by scum or I could see creature being scum, with the latter being what I favor currently.

I believe those two posts kinda explain themselves. The first post I was stressing a bit because my playstyle was under accusation and I couldn't really respond to it. The second post is saying that I used to like creature's posting style but now I don't.