Mini Normal 1832 [game over]

[Gear]

Vote: BigYoshiFan

[Gear]

Psyche, what do you think of the playerlist?

[Gear]

Hey Gear we joined the same day!

It's all magic!

i am a lurker

BYE!

Vote:Raskolnikov

[Gear]

Actually raskolnikov, looking at your posts per day you are anything but a lurker, so what's up?

[Gear]

VOTE: Gear

Is your head spinning yet?

Not yet . . .

[Gear]

I haven't been able to play for 2 months

I am sorry that this happened to you! It must have been a red hell!

Raskolnikov, what can you tell me about Light_Ganski?

[Gear]

You've played with her before yeah?

[Gear]

Oh well,

Vote: Light_Ganski

[Gear]

I have done no meta diving. Light told us that she's played with Rask before.

[Gear]

I'm here. I will read and post shortly.

[Gear]

I think jack isn't one trying to look busy.

Vote him!

I have done no meta diving. Light told us that she's played with Rask before.

Shows my reading comprehension skills need some refinement.

That being said, I still don't see the value in 59. What were you hoping to gain from that question?

Insight into light_g and rask - I'd noticed the comment from Light and I rask wanted someone to talk to her.

I think that Jaack's responses to Yoshi are completely overblown:

So I can't make judgements on players I've never played with before?

and

more oriented towards shutting down discussion as opposed to promoting it.

Vote: Jaack

I'm pretty happy with Gamma, Rask, ecane and light, in no particular order.

I was surprised by Maria's vote on Rask on page 4 and her copying Jake's game is boring/dead business doesn't seem genuine.

[Gear]

Yoshi, why did you unvote?

[Gear]

Kind of getting a little bit of last game scum vibe from Jaack, but right now that's all there is for me really.

That's pretty good from where I am sitting.

I'm a bit bemused by people lacking the confidence in there reads so much that they can't even put a vote down. It's not like you're hammering anyone just yet.

[Gear]

Actually Gear, why are you happy with Gamma?

The everybody's being pingy post seemed spontaneous and I'm not sure that he'd think to say that as scum out of the blue. Plus after the comment by rask that gamma is just like this, I'm willing to give him some space for awhile.

Could you explain why my response to yoshi are 'overblown'.

Maybe later

[Gear]

I don't think that Jake's rationale for why psyche warrants votes makes any sense. He thinks that psyche warrants votes, but Jake doesn't want to vote him since it feels like a policy lynch, and psyche might be town, but Jake also thinks that pressuring people to contribute is a waste of time.

Why would psyche warrant votes - Jake doesn't think he's scum, doesn't want to policy lynch him and doesn't want to pressure him to contribute.

[Gear]

Jaack, your comment to Yoshi "So I can't make judgements on players I've never played with before?" seems over the top to me. Yoshi telling you that Maria's play could be from scum-Maria, is just him warning you to be cautious with your read on her. What do you think was scum!Yoshi's motivation here? You also attacked Yoshi for not being interested in why you are town reading Maria, well, it seems to me that it would make more sense for you to explain why you are town-reading her, and see what Yoshi has to say, but that's just me. I'd also like to see where you think that Yoshi has been trying to shut down discussion.

[Gear]

Jaack, could you explain your town read on Maria?

Yoshi, could you walk me through your read on Jake?

Gear's posts still feel really flat to me, and I struggled to get my head round 298 - when he's made detailed posts they seem a little obfuscating. Slight scum read for now.

Don't worry, you'll be with me soon, I hope! Maybe you could be more precise about what's bugging you?

I don't really buy Maria hating meta, while relying on it for two reads this game. Maria, have you voiced this opinion before?

[Gear]

Gerry, what do you think of Jaack?

[Gear]

Sure have

I'd love a link.

[Gear]

My scumread on Jake was for two reasons: One, he seemed like he was trying to find a buddy (me). Two, he was unable to give me any scumreads. Overall, I don't think he's done much to help the town.

This isn't an acceptable answer.

[Gear]

I am going to take into account Raskolnikov's view of Yoshi, and his (previous) scum read on Jake. I was more concerned earlier, since it seemed like Yoshi's read could have been invented after the fact because of the comment to Jake about them possibly having different scum reads.

I'd also like to know why Gear feels the need to know so much about my points on meta

I'm curious if your hate is real, since you're using meta to get reads.

I've told people to not meta ME because I change my gameplay but I don't think I've said I hated it (I have in 1 game I can't show you yet but blah)

So I have no prove what so ever atm
@Gear

well ok

These quotes from Jake don't ring true, and they make me think that he is putting on a little show to make us dislike Yoshi.

Way to take advantage of me when I'm busy/sick. Regardless your alignment I find you to be a very malipuatuve and disrespectful person

Like he's had a mental lapse and can't keep his shit straight or something.

The first quote was in response to Yoshi explaining his earlier scum read on Jake, it wasn't something that Yoshi was pushing at the time. The second was in response to some confusion over whether Yoshi meant Jaack or Jake, when there were two conversations going on.

Unvote
Vote: Jake from State Farm

[Gear]

Oh and when yoshi made the Jake/jack mistake there wasn't 2 conversations going on. The mentioning of my name was completely out of the blue

Yoshi's 312 was about both of you, he was questioned about his read on you, 315, 334, he was talking about Jaack, 336 about you, responding to the questions about his read.

Also, I'm not an alt.

[Gear]

Jaack asked him to explain in 322.

[Gear]

In 315 Yoshi was responding to Jaack, but not about his scum read on you. When Yoshi said he ignored 322, he obviously didn't mean that he didn't read it.

[Gear]

Gear what conclusion did you come to on jaack then?

No conclusions just yet, but I've decided to give him space.

[Gear]

Wow. Scumreading ecane/her replacement a bit. Votes me without explaining and then dissappears? *shakes head*

You've burned all my good will.

[Gear]

I'm looking forward to lynching light and gamma.

[Gear]

Vote: Gamma Emerald

[Gear]

I'm here. Will read and catch-up now.

[Gear]

As far as I can tell neither Maria nor Yoshi actually thinks that I am scum, so there votes on me are upsetting.

[Gear]

To the people who think that there are 2 mafia left: why haven't you asked us to mass-claim yet?

[Gear]

Would 9:2 with a town watcher, a pinger, + ? and scum rb be balanced?
If so, my guess is that there are just two scum.
Three scum in an 11 player game gives 2 mis-lynches before LYLO which seems too few - town has to lynch at better than 50% for the whole game.

[Gear]

Ecane and Ira have both appeared to be town, and I don't think that ecane was chastising hypothetical scum-buddy light for unvoting on day 1, so I feel comfortable calling Ira town.

[Gear]

I think that psyche seems town from when he told gamma to try town hunting.

[Gear]

By the way, for when I've flipped town and you're still looking for both scum tomorrow, gamma and gerry are quite clearly hard bussing each other here.

Here's light telling us that there are just two scum.

Also, after skimming her ISO, I think that the only town read that asked anyone to explain was a town read on Yoshi, which I think that she would do if they were buddies.

[Gear]

This is dancing around a read Maria?

Now that gear has done more recently could you expand a little there?

Gear's posts still feel really flat to me, and I struggled to get my head round 298 - when he's made detailed posts they seem a little obfuscating. Slight scum read for now.

[Gear]

2 or

I guess that this post is somewhat more likely to come from town.

[Gear]

So, which is more likely in 11-player game? 2 or 3 mafia?

this one.

[Gear]

My reads are that Gamma Emerald, and one of Psyche or Gear are scum-aligned.

What changed?

[Gear]

I think that Maria's play at the start of this day is acting.

[Gear]

VOTE: Gear
Wakey Wakey Gear.

Explain now please

[Gear]

I'm looking forward to lynching light and gamma.

Why? You never expressed a desire to hang Gamma before, and after this vote you were like "Fuck this shit, I'm out."

This

I am town watcher, saw light_ganski targeting rask last night.

VOTE: light_ganski

A quick iso of ganski doesn't leave me with any good feels as to a partner, but my guess it would be someone on the Jake wagon. Probably Gamma or Yoshi.

and this

Gerry stop the over reactions it's so cringe and not helping you.

I
DONT
GIVE
A
FUCK.
GAMMA
IS
CONFIRMED
MAFIA.

[Gear]

LOL

[Gear]

Maria, why didn't you suggest that we mass claim today?

[Gear]

Cause you're here.

[Gear]

Do you think 2:9 with watcher + pinger and scum rb is balanced?

[Gear]

Light never pushed on you even if you were a "light sr" it's like the post was just there to distance and was left alone after that

I think that this is the kind of bs that scum invent at night reading over their buddies ISOs.

[Gear]

Why do you think it's 2 mafia instead of 3 that never crossed my mind

This either confirms that you aren't reading the thread or that you are lying scum.

[Gear]

I haven't seen any other 11 player games, but 13 player games with 3 scum are typical, and 11 players with 2 scum, all vanilla is scum sided (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=68387) see post 11, so watcher + pinger, with scum RB doesn't seem crazy to me.

[Gear]

Light never pushed on you even if you were a "light sr" it's like the post was just there to distance and was left alone after that

I think that this is the kind of bs that scum invent at night reading over their buddies ISOs.

Am I wrong in that statement?

That's irrelevant.

[Gear]

Did you think that light pushed any of her scum reads?

[Gear]

Maybe once she was going down but not on day one.

[Gear]

Pedit: Because any other PR would have claimed today.

Psyche, what do you think of this?

[Gear]

I'm VT.

Okay, but you didn't actually vote light.

Light was at L-1, I didn't feel the need to hurry the day up. You've mentioned the fact that I didn't vote light a couple of times, why do you think that it's relevant?

I haven't seen any other 11 player games, but 13 player games with 3 scum are typical, and 11 players with 2 scum, all vanilla is scum sided (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=68387) see post 11, so watcher + pinger, with scum RB doesn't seem crazy to me.

But with a roleblocker, I feel there should be more roles to block, no?

I don't know.

Okay... I'm a town tracker.
N1: Gerryoat targets Gamma Emerald
N2: Gamma Emerald targeted no one
N3: MariaR targeted no one

I keep getting scummy vibes from Maria, but because she didn't visit anyone, that's keeping me from making a strong scum read. She has no reason NOT to target anyone if she was scum, whether she was killing or roleblocking someone, right?

I don't believe this claim at all. I'll explain in my next post.

Where was he for Gamma's lynch?

You know Gamma was lynched quickly, why are you complaining about this?

[Gear]

Why Yoshi is not a tracker:
1. He confused watcher with tracker.

I am town watcher, saw light_ganski targeting rask last night.

VOTE: light_ganski

A quick iso of ganski doesn't leave me with any good feels as to a partner, but my guess it would be someone on the Jake wagon. Probably Gamma or Yoshi.

Why did you target light_ganski?

I targeted Rask. Watcher sees who else targets my target. Rask was the obvious nk choice since everyone but ira was hard townreading him.

Oh oops, sorry I got confused with the tracker role.

2. His response to Light's tracker claim:

I still don't see a valid reason for why you would track Rask, you townread her.

Which indicates that he actually considered it, which he wouldn't do if he was a tracker.

[Gear]

I am town watcher, saw light_ganski targeting rask last night.

VOTE: light_ganski

A quick iso of ganski doesn't leave me with any good feels as to a partner, but my guess it would be someone on the Jake wagon. Probably Gamma or Yoshi.

I'll believe it for now, some part of me is thinking you two are partners bussing each other.
VOTE: light_ganski

Actually maybe it checks out? He thought Jaack was claiming tracker too, and was bussing light.

[Gear]

When I was thinking about balance before, I forgot that it is not too likely for the pinger to manage to confirm himself town, so knowing there is a rb I don't think having a tracker in the game is over powered for town. I believe Yoshi's claim, I won't be lynching Maria or Ira today.

Vote: Psyche

[Gear]

UNVOTE:
I want Yoshi to explain his night choices after all.

[Gear]

I think anyone who thinks that I am scum after today's posts isn't really trying.

[Gear]

When I was thinking about balance before, I forgot that it is not too likely for the pinger to manage to confirm himself town, so knowing there is a rb I don't think having a tracker in the game is over powered for town. I believe Yoshi's claim, I won't be lynching Maria or Ira today.

Vote: Psyche

So the only reason you're believing my claim is because of balance?

Nope. Also your reaction to Jack's claim.

[Gear]

Yoshi, I asked you some questions, not long ago.

[Gear]

I'm VT.

Okay, but you didn't actually vote light.

Light was at L-1, I didn't feel the need to hurry the day up. You've mentioned the fact that I didn't vote light a couple of times, why do you think that it's relevant?

I haven't seen any other 11 player games, but 13 player games with 3 scum are typical, and 11 players with 2 scum, all vanilla is scum sided (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=68387) see post 11, so watcher + pinger, with scum RB doesn't seem crazy to me.

But with a roleblocker, I feel there should be more roles to block, no?

I don't know.

Okay... I'm a town tracker.
N1: Gerryoat targets Gamma Emerald
N2: Gamma Emerald targeted no one
N3: MariaR targeted no one

I keep getting scummy vibes from Maria, but because she didn't visit anyone, that's keeping me from making a strong scum read. She has no reason NOT to target anyone if she was scum, whether she was killing or roleblocking someone, right?

I don't believe this claim at all. I'll explain in my next post.

Where was he for Gamma's lynch?

You know Gamma was lynched quickly, why are you complaining about this?

[Gear]

I think anyone who thinks that I am scum after today's posts isn't really trying.

lazy assertion

No it's correct. Getting people out of the belief that there are two scum in the game has been the most pro-town and productive thing to happen today.

[Gear]

you can lynch me today and i won't care much
but don't tell yourself again the lie that it was unavoidable or someone else's fault
i've made 116 posts since the game started and they include more substantial analysis than most people in this game have even approached
like your jake votes, like your gamma votes, like your jump-the-gun townreads
your incompetence will again be the day's story

Here it sounds like psyche thinks Yoshi's town, but later he says that Yoshi is in his top two scum reads.

[Gear]

From looking at light_ganski's ISO, it looks like ecane and Gamma Emerald are scum-aligned with her from the read list, and how light_ganski is hesitant to read ecane as town-aligned... There is little interaction with Gamma Emerald, and interaction with ecane is suspicious.

Also, it shows BigYoshiFan and probably Psyche as more town-aligned, the way she is pushing them can't be a bus.

Can you say what about light gave you this idea about ecane?

[Gear]

I mean what about light made you think that she was hesitant to read ecane as town-aligned.

[Gear]

Sell me on Yoshi being scum.

[Gear]

One thing that bothers me a lot about you is how you town read light for flip flopping on her read of you not thinking that she could have been acting, but still scum read Yoshi after his reaction to Jaack's claim, calling it anchoring (which I suppose means that you think that he intentionally accused Jaack of bussing and then confused watcher with tracker to bolster his claim now).

[Gear]

and how did it affect your belief in Yoshi's claim?

[Gear]

Ok. So what about Ira, do you buy that he actually thought that light was hesitant to town read ecane?

Looking at lights ISO, this seems wrong, and could have been him faking a reason to distance himself from scum light.

[Gear]

Well this ending is more consistent with Maria being scum JOAT, than with Ira being scum rb (I think scum!Ira would have probably rb'ed Yoshi and left him alive to help lynch me today).

[Gear]

The rask kill also makes more sense coming from scum-Maria than from scum Ira.

[Gear]

I'm joat with a ninja one shot I would of used it n1 on Rask

I think this is probably right.

The only explicitly normal role that I think a scum team would decide to use on the first night over the ninja is a rolestopper - if a rolestopper is allowed to self-target. Maybe rolecop if they had a strong guess of a possible pr, but I feel like that is pretty iffy.

What do you think of Ira saying that ecane hesitated to town-read ecane?

Mod: Can you clarify if a normal rolestopper is allowed to self-target

[Gear]

You think scum would have a JOAT

Maybe, why not?

How does the rask kill make more sense to me the rask kill made sense for EVERYONE holy **** you are are something else

Rask and you were at each others throats, and rask had this to say about Ira:

i think iraon is probably town and ecane was good too but lynching most active person in the game because of a day 1 association is so incredibly stupid

really quick check of iraon has him trying this another replace game and lynching scum so i guess he feels really confident and justified with the approach

[Gear]

Pretty sure that Rask, Maria and Jaack are town. I think I was right in calling psyche as a shitposter rather than as scum as well. Was townreading ecane, but would obviously like to see her replacement before putting that slot back into townblock.

I don't like the assumption that the ecane-slot would end up back in the town-bloc after her replacement contributed. It reads like she wouldn't have cared what Ira said.

[Gear]

Unvote now

[Gear]

If you're town, there is no reason to hurry this.

[Gear]

I'm proposing that if there is a Joat. They used role-stopper on N1, not the night Yoshi tracked her.

[Gear]

Okay then.

Vote: Iraonavp

If you're town, fuck you.

[Gear]

Maria, notice that until now, Ira has had an open mind. He suggested that rask could have been vig'ed and that scum had a Joat. His approach to the game has changed today. He's abandoned this approach, and decided you are town to buddy you.

[Gear]

Here we can see Gear's plan of convincing me to misvote on tracker innocent, then it fails so he tries to mislynch me instead even though it's harder route.

Well not an innocent, but your scum so whatever

If you were town, you wouldn't feel the need to accelerate the day.

[Gear]

Yeah, because now it is clear what is the right answer.

Now you are appealing to MariaR after trying to get me to vote her, which is what you are accusing me of only way worse and actually scum-aligned...

I am trying to figure out who is what, I do that by seeing how people react to things. You trying to suggest that is scummy is hilarious.

[Gear]

Yeah, because now it is clear what is the right answer.

Not from where I am sitting, and it shouldn't be from where you are sitting either.

[Gear]

I don't have a priority. That should be clear from my posts.

[Gear]

Unvote, so I can finish reading without the threat of a hammer.

[Gear]

No. I didn't expect you to vote anyone yet

[Gear]

I am sure that you are faking confidence today.
I think you tried to distance your self from light by pretending she had a read on your slot that she didn't have.

[Gear]

Oh yeah, there is roleblocker too... So it's probably not that.

It could be JOAT with those abilities.

Either way, it seems like a weird setup with pinger...

In the end, I'm not sure.

Probably we shouldn't lynch MariaR today based on the result, although I still think she is scum-aligned and there are two or she was ninja.

[Gear]

From that to 99% confirmed town.
LOL.

Maria hammer him.

[Gear]

I am not faking confidence!

That is just buzzwords, making a mistake of who I replaced is completely null-aligned and does not distance me from anything.

I'm not accusing you of mistaking who you replaced.

Quite the opposite.

[Gear]

But you just accused me of doing the same thing

Where?

[Gear]

Maria, ira is acting as if tracks are clears, and that it is scummy for me to consider that you could be scum. He's doing this to buddy you and it also represents a change from his earlier open-minded play. He is scum.

[Gear]

I am not faking confidence!

That is just buzzwords, making a mistake of who I replaced is completely null-aligned and does not distance me from anything.

I'm not accusing you of mistaking who you replaced.

Quite the opposite.

So you are accusing me of lying about it on purpose?

Okay, that's just ridiculous... It was obviously a mistake and no reason to lie about it.

I think it was calculated distancing.

[Gear]

But you just accused me of doing the same thing

Where?

You said I had an open mind and just narrowed now, when you did the same thing (it's not scum-aligned on its own), only more abrupt and divorced from reality.

What are you referring to?

[Gear]

Tracks are 99% clears

Nope. With a flipped ninja, sure, but without one, no way.

scum-aligned to consider MariaR could be scum-aligned...

Nope.

No town-aligned player could genuinely think that MariaR is JOAT with those specific abilities who acted on those specific nights, it's so unfeasible and fake humming.

Why? What makes it impossible?

[Gear]

But you just accused me of doing the same thing

Where?

You said I had an open mind and just narrowed now, when you did the same thing (it's not scum-aligned on its own), only more abrupt and divorced from reality.

What are you referring to?

1215, and just now...

Swing and a miss.
I was saying that before you were acting one way, and your not acting the same way now.
Not that you were scummy for thinking about the game.
Get lynched.

[Gear]

The JOAT just happens to have both the roleblock and ninja effective on the single nights they are used? Not believable at all.

With gerry claiming or and Maria claiming bodyguard they very well could have been used successfully.

[Gear]

gg everyone

Gear I lynched you for appealing back and fourth today I take blame but it was fun thank you for hosting.

I don't see why you hammered so quickly. We had time?

Gear: you are way too gullible. Are you so dull you'll take flipped scums word as gold?

What are you talking about?

[Gear]

It was a good game. Thanks xyzzy. I really thought that it should have been clear that Ira was scum at the end when he went from thinking there could be a JOAT to Marie is 99% town.
Oh well.

[Gear]

Afraid not

[Gear]

I'd love to get actual feedback. What could I have better?

[Gear]

I thought Ira had a much clearer path to victory killing Maria and leaving Yoshi alive. It seemed like Yoshi would have never voted Ira, and Maria was more of a wild card, especially after the previous day.