Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over
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Gamma Emerald AnySurvivorAny
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@Dier: most of my scumread on you is based on the fact you caem up with the outlandish idea me and PP could be scum together.
Could you explain what exactly made you think that? Because I'm starting to townread you now.<Embrace The Void>
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@DierIn post 1325, Gamma Emerald wrote:So now that you say that, I'm leaning less scum on you, and more scum on PP. Guess you were right about that unwillingness to follow not meaning anything.
UNVOTE:<Embrace The Void>
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Okay. Is there a way to rectify this without flips?In post 1327, Dierfire wrote:@Gamma Emerald
I have listed suspicious actions from both of you with regard to the other.In post 1323, Gamma Emerald wrote:I can see how you might say that,however, it is my personal policy to suspect whomever performed the suspicious action more than the person the action was performed at.<Embrace The Void>
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Your words say you agree, but your tone says you don't. Which is it?In post 1352, Zoronos wrote:
So, in short, your theory is that Gamma is Eager's scum partner, and who jumped on the lynch train when he thought it was going to complete for the town cred, then jumped off again when he thought he might be able to save his scum buddy?In post 1351, Dierfire wrote:@Zoronos
Yes, that's correct.In post 1334, Zoronos wrote:So, for the sake of clarity Dierfire, your scum reads are Eager, Gamma, and Penguin? You are further of the opinion that Gamma and Penguin's set of disagreements around the competing trains was theater / scum distancing and that they could be scum together?
Am I understanding this correctly?
I'm not married to the idea that all three are Mafia together, but I have independent reasons to read each as Mafia, associative reasons to read PenguinPower and Gamma Emerald as partners, and no associative reasons to doubt either as partners for eagerSnake (in fact, perhaps some associative reasons to read Gamma Emerald as a likely partner for eagerSnake given the hops on and off the eagerSnake wagon).<Embrace The Void>
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So I never really voted for this reason, but I should address it anyways I feel.
Boring has a point about finding someone's play scummy even though they are likely town. There have been point where I've said "dude that's scummy" to people I townread.<Embrace The Void>
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Because your read on Shadow is faulty and I don't like your turnaround on Eager.In post 1365, boring wrote:
I've forgotten. Why are you voting me, again?In post 1364, Gamma Emerald wrote:So I never really voted for this reason, but I should address it anyways I feel.
Boring has a point about finding someone's play scummy even though they are likely town. There have been point where I've said "dude that's scummy" to people I townread.
Basically everyone else's reason.<Embrace The Void>
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Exactly.In post 1372, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I think he's disagreeing with himself, not boring.<Embrace The Void>
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Actually, I think that was my concern with her Eager read.In post 1375, nn30 wrote:@Boring - still not buying it.
If you were conflicted about your read on Eager,why the hell was he your second to top town read?
If I were you, I would have had him as like fifth-highest townread.<Embrace The Void>
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Wasn't it stated by some people that the claim was suspected as a distraction?In post 1390, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
I'm saying that Shadow made it look like he intended to counterclaim Snake and that when he did counterclaim, it conveniently was at time where there were some serious discussion and debate going on about the wagons on Gamma and Penguin.In post 1389, nn30 wrote:
Uhh... Please clarify what exactly you mean by these two sentences. I'm not getting it.In post 1385, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.
PP is getting townier again.<Embrace The Void>
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You were scumreading both me and Penguin.In post 1395, Dierfire wrote:@Lil Uzi Vert
I think that it's clear that Shadow_step was setting up to counter the claim from early in the game. I'm not certain why you find that suspicious. Why would Shadow_step, as Mafia, feel the need to start setting up to dispute the claim so early? Usually it is not difficult to dispose of an Ascetic role (by NK or by lynch).In post 1390, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I'm saying that Shadow made it look like he intended to counterclaim Snake and that when he did counterclaim, it conveniently was at time where there were some serious discussion and debate going on about the wagons on Gamma and Penguin.
I also don't think that Shadow_step needed to claim in order to create a distraction. The move that you describe would be one with low reward and high risk.
Me and Penguin were the leading wagons at the time.
Coincidence...?<Embrace The Void>
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But what if he tried to frame us?In post 1399, Dierfire wrote:If PenguinPower were Town, and you were Town, and Shadow_step were Mafia, then Shadow_step would have very little need to distract from the competing wagons.
Or are you saying that you're reading Shadow_step as Townbecauseyou're reading PenguinPower as Town?<Embrace The Void>
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Because there were 2 wagons. Once one flips Town, the other gets implicated and MLed. That 2 town for 1 scum, maybe not even that.In post 1412, Dierfire wrote:@Gamma Emerald
Why set you up to be lynched later when he had a reasonable shot of lynching you today?In post 1406, Gamma Emerald wrote:But as LUV said, he could have claimed to make it look like one of us was one of his partners.<Embrace The Void>
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Wait. Who's pushing the "both Shadow and Eager cannot be dual Town ascetics" again? I believe boring is one of them.In post 1417, Dierfire wrote:@Gamma Emerald
I'm not understanding this line at all.
The claim from Shadow_step decreased the sizes of the wagons on you and PenguinPower.
Your theory is that Shadow_step made this claim in order to look as though he were distracting from your wagons and thereby get you lynched (along with him).
I don't think that this makes sense, because Shadow_step had no need to sacrifice himself; he could have simply voted for one of the wagons and tried to push it to completion (potentially with assistance from other Mafia players). This has every probability of giving one lynch without cost. He could then push the other on some later day, leaving alive the Town players who looked likely to cooperate so as to ensure wagon viability. These maneuvers would be more reliable than banking on us drawing weird associations and less risky than putting a claim out there.
It's extraordinarily far-fetched to think that the focus of the claim by Shadow_step was any player other than eagerSnake.<Embrace The Void>
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I interpret that as a planned bus.In post 1421, Dierfire wrote:@Gamma Emerald
Yes, boring was of the opinion that the game was unlikely to contain two Town Ascetic roles (quote below). What is your interpretation of that?In post 1165, boring wrote:I think we've had quite enough role claims for Day 1, but suffice it to say that I find it very, very unlikely that we have two ascetics.<Embrace The Void>
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My fault buddy.In post 1452, boring wrote:In post 1437, Zoronos wrote:@Boring - You didn't answer the question I posed last night. The short version was "Who is your best non-Eager scum read, if you want you can assume Eager is scum for the sake of this exercise."
I would like to lynch eager today, but if it's absolutely not going to happen, I'd be willing to settle for LUV. He's the most probable scum when I look outside the CC-related wagons. By that, I mean it seems like regardless of eager's flip, LUV could be scum. I admit that part of my reasoning is that he keeps trying to push S_s, which is making zero sense to me. That, and his eagerness to accept bizarre theories just to keep the S_s suspicions going.In post 1444, MariaR wrote: Hm I see your point but I don't see any other better lynches then LUV and that clearly isn't happening<Embrace The Void>
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I'm certain PRs will have an even better idea with a flip.In post 1464, eagerSnake wrote:I didn't even vote no lynch I'm just fielding it as an idea because we have 2 claimed ascetics which means pr's have a better idea of who to target
<Embrace The Void>
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You are dense if you think scum would be that obvious.In post 1477, Shadow_step wrote:LUV is unlikely to be scum, I know his play is terrible but that's more likely to come from VI. Scum have day chat.
Best course of action would be to bus eager.
I still think it's PP/GE/Eager.
Eager attacked boring but not PP(might be wrong on this have to cross check) for starughtaway jumping in his wagon after my CC.<Embrace The Void>
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Dude, VC is right there, even though I forgot it's really f'in obvious.In post 1472, eagerSnake wrote:Oh yeah, you forgot yeah right<Embrace The Void>
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What I get from this is you scumread LUV for following my moon logic?In post 1487, boring wrote:As far as who is more likely to come up with (and follow) crazy theories, I think it's pretty individual. Some people have wild imaginations and are prone to conspiracy. Some people aren't. I can see such a person coming up with something crazy as town or scum (perhaps more likely as town, but how would they know it's crazy as scum if they think it's perfectly sane when they're town). I think scum (or insanely conf.biased town) is more likely to pretend to buy intosomeone else'scrazy theory hoping it'll stick.<Embrace The Void>
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Wait so you claim vanilla? OK.
<Embrace The Void>
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EBWOP HOLY FUCKIn post 1526, Gamma Emerald wrote:I have some good reasons me and Eager can't be scum together, but I'll wait until tomorrow.<Embrace The Void>
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Thank you, that leads into my plan for today. I think the scum team spread out amongst the three wagons/opinions. And I still feel implosion is town, so I'm going toIn post 1568, Shadow_step wrote:
LUVIn post 1560, Gamma Emerald wrote:So other than Eager, Maria and implosion, who believed there could be 2 town ascetics?
VOTE: LUV<Embrace The Void>
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Well boring kinda did the same thing, though I feel she did more to explain it. I do agree it is odd PP decided to cut and run.
Actually that's pretty telling.
VOTE: PenguinPower
This is better than my LUV vote for now, but I am still down for an LUV lynch.<Embrace The Void>
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If one flips scum, the other is likely town.In post 1631, Zoronos wrote:Sure... but why Shadowed? Do you think he's scum?
I have been reasonably confident in my town read there...
I'm trying to figure out what you're saying and I'm clearly missing a beat somewhere.<Embrace The Void>
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I'm voting you because I suspect there is scum on each wagon/scum of each opinion. I think you could be the scum of the Shadow wagon. And the plan is to discuss who could be scum on the boring/Eager/Shadow wagons.<Embrace The Void>
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He is likely town because his reaction to my theory was "that's interesting". Instantly believing me would have been a scumtell, trying to shut me up may have done so too.In post 1639, Zoronos wrote:
Why is PP town?!?In post 1637, Gamma Emerald wrote:Nah I think Prism is solid town. PP is a townread but if you can point out how his reaction to my idea was not genuine I'll definitely join you there.
Explain this to me like I'm five, because if you are super sure, then I am maybe missing something.<Embrace The Void>
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We're in serious mode right now. As much as a wagon on me isn't that much of a problem, I'd prefer it be people with actual grievances and not people throwing hissy fits.
TL;DR: Zoronos, unvote me.<Embrace The Void>
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Wait. Whoever said PP didn't say my theory was interesting was right; that was in response to nn30. He called my theory "icky". Not sure what this means, but I feel this could be easily faked as scum. Revoking my PP townread.<Embrace The Void>
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This was responding to:In post 1387, PenguinPower wrote:Oooh...that's an interesting variation on current events. Unlikely, but interesting nonetheless.
p-edit
Even more interesting. Thanks, LUV.In post 1383, nn30 wrote:Moon logic here. This is pure speculation. Please don't take this as super serious - I'm just throwing it out there.
Shadow's CC, to most people's reading, was premeditated.
What if Boring's "scum read list" intentionally had Shadow as her top town read so that she could use it as justification for jumping on Snake?
Scum have day chat - if SS's claim was premeditated, he could have warned his scum buddies to set up bread crumbs they could point back to.<Embrace The Void>
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I changed that after looking at the context of his ISO.In post 1677, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
You can find thoughts on boring when she had some serious heat on her are in #1048 and #1347. For current thoughts you will have to get back to me, still trying to understand why she's still currently voting for me.In post 1651, implosion wrote:@dierfire: last think I see you say about boring is that you've read up on her but don't find anything really alignment indicative. What do you think of her after the eager+maria townflips, and/or why don't you agree with my points on her?
@LUV: can you elaborate on why you disagree with the case on boring? Can you elaborate on your null-scum read on prism, and on your scumread of penguin (is it just lingering things from long ago, or is it more strongly based on his recent posting)?
As for Prism, I reread his ISO and something about his reads feel fake to me. I'm not sure if that's correct way to put it but basically the stances he is taking on everyone seem very safe. It feels like he can easily fall back on them or conveniently change them at a moments notice with little to no scrutiny.
My read on Penguin is still the same from #522. It has grown some with how quiet he's been and Gamma's insistence on basing his read on him on a reaction that could be easily faked.<Embrace The Void>
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