Mini 488 - Killings in Clich├®-town - Game Over!

[Kison]

Yo.

Vote : IH

because IH is

always

scum.

[Kison]

Hi,

The thing about d3sisted is not his vote hopping. The problem I have with him starts with this post :

As much as I hate to say this, I'm not convinced you're the lynch for today.

Unvote

So let me get this straight : an early game vote had you somewhat convinced that Head Honcho was the lynch for the day, but after a 1-liner rebuttal, you are from that point on no longer convinced of this?

The way he goes after Jenter is pretty stupid, too, but more annoying is this :

Right now I'm convinced at least one of the following is scum:
trumpezia, Jenter, Kison, Eyceking

You hardly have a case against any of the people you listed. You said this during

page four

of the game. How can you be

convinced

that one of the people you named is scum? We're not anywhere near far enough into the game for you to be convinced of anything. If you magically are, please give a decent reason for it. As far as I recall, I myself only made one post up until this point. If that's damning evidence, along with whatever you have against the other two, then I'd be a wonderful scum killer in all of my games.

Unvote

Vote : d3sisted

[Kison]

BTW, I know you're just trying to mimic Jenter's 80 so you can blow it way out of proportion.

More assumptions that are certainties?

[Kison]

Wow Jenter certainly does look opportunistic. Like he's trying to establish suspicion with absolutely no actual substance.

Unvote, Vote: Jenter

Yet did he swap votes like you did?

[Kison]

Thanks, Skruffs McGruff's!

[Kison]

Hi, anyone home?

[Kison]

Oh, I'd like to comment that although I don't like Paradoxombie's last move, I think d3sisted is taking this up as an opportunity to throw suspicion off of himself, so I'll probably be keeping my vote where it is.

[Kison]

Kison, what was your old Ava?

The sketchy one?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Votecount:

as of post 149, end of page 6

IH -

3

(

Trumpezia, Eyceking, D3sisted

)

D3sisted -

2

(

Kison, IH

)
SPAG -

1

(

Head_Honcho

)

Not Voting - Gatorguy91, Slash, Jenter Brolincani, SPAG, paradoxombie

With 11 alive, it's six to lynch.

[Kison]

I see no reason to change my vote.

Paradoxombie would be my second choice.

[Kison]

IH has done 2 very scummy things. Post 85 where he tries to arouse suspicion of a vigkill is weird. It IS in fact the second instance where he has tried to create some cloud around the night kill, the first being the earlier exchange over the mason question.

FOS worthy

You kidding me? I mean, I personally find it unlikely that the night kill was from a vigilante, but you're going to go as far as FoS someone for having an open mind on the subject?

To be honest, this latest bicker match has been tiring for me to keep up with. I'm still liking my spot on d3sisted for a combination of his more recent actions as well as his big screwups earlier on in the day(if you need more on that, read my previous posts).

[Kison]

I would not mind hearing Jenter's reasons for going after d3sisted, either. I hope they vary more than the ones I have brought up previously in the game.

[Kison]

Jenter, random voting, even in the middle of page two, isn't the scummiest thing. I think d3sisted's play later on warranted the vote far more than the random votes.

I'm not exactly feeling the suspicion on Head_Honcho.

[Kison]

vote: IH

Hi.

Why?

[Kison]

What do you want out of me Chronx? I'm pissing me pants in fear here.

[Kison]

What do you want out of me Chronx? I'm pissing me pants in fear here.

This is a good start. Do you think our other 2 village idiots are lonely and you want to join them? Way to keep the post count up while not hunting scum.

Have a sense of humor.

Ok, what the hell? Adel didn't respond to my question of why he voted IH, then proceeds to jump onto Jenter a few posts later, again without stating a reason. Conveniently this is after Vollkan makes a reasonable case against Jenter and himself votes.

Specifically :

unvote, vote:Jenter

vote: IH

I can understand needing time to read after replacing in, but you shouldn't shamelessly bandwagon like that.

...

jenter: any last words before your death scene?

Ok, that killed the chicken.

Unvote

Vote : Adel

Adel has simply been posting minimalistically.

What the hell is this, legitimization?

unvote

...Anyway this continues for some time.

[Kison]

First of all, thank you for participating Adel. You seem to have a clue.

Lets think for a moment.

2 dead town.
1 claimed cop, with a guilty on Bookitty, but he brings up sanity, which seems a little cagey.

If we lynch Bookitty today, and she were to turn up innocent, Fonz COULD argue the WIFOMy case if he lives through the night that he must be insane and we would lynch one of his "innocents".

The problem with all this, is that if we lose an innocent today, and lose someone tonight (which seems likely since if we have a doc they would have to protect Fonz even if Bookitty turns out town), we'd be down 2 more town, and the sun would rise tomorrow on most likely a 5 town, 3 scum roster. Which is almost LyLo.

I am inclined to believe Fonz but I think if Boo isn't scum we don't have options, we'd have to lynch Fonz.

unvote
Vote: Bookitty

Thing is we'd be at Lynch or Lose but we'd at least know to lynch The Fonz.

Why the hell are we waiting?

Unvote

Vote : Bookitty

[Kison]

vote Adel

I still say Adel is scum as of my arguments yesterday...

What were those arguments? Did they have to do with the fact Adel wasn't participating? She is now, so I don't think it's really relevant.

the lack of activity leads me to

unvote

and

vote: vollkan

unless the Fonz turns out to be scum (very much not likely) vollkan is the Godfather.

??????????????????


Anyway, without a counter claim, we don't really have much to dispute Jenter's claim. However, the "real" Mason could very well be someone like IH who is not really able to post in the game until he is replaced, so we're kind of stuck here for a moment.

Adel, I don't get what you're saying. First you say the mason should not counter claim, then you turn around and start saying the complete opposite.

[Kison]

Adel does look bad(i really don't but the vollkan thing), but I'd still like to see about the counter claim, which is dependent upon replacements.

[Kison]

Adel... yeah... Do I have to go into this? Played odd when first joined, said the other mason should NOT claim in post 391, contradicts that in post 403, then creates some false "trap" excuse... Ask Vollkan, I do not take kindly to so called "Traps!"

Trapping is not scummy, Korlash.

I disagree. Suggesting something really scummy, then when pressed on it claiming it was a trap to see who followed you, is imho a pretty big scumtell.

This is also how I read it.

[Kison]

You mean that it's now Day Four.

Cop needs to tell us everything since Doc is dead.

[Kison]

Bollocks. Guardian is therefore scum, due to the fact that I don't have a Night Action. Guardian knew I was town yesterday, so he blatantly set up the NK to make me look bad.

No argument here by you.

Guardian, dude, there's no argument here from you either. His argument is 'I did not perform a night action last night, so Guardian is scum' to exactly the same extent that yours is 'I DID see him perform a night action, so HE is scum.' Neither of you needs an argument beyond the other having a contradictory claim to vote the other.

Agreed. At this point, it's just picking and choosing which to believe. Guardian, just because you've claimed a role, does not mean you can prove your side of the story any more than Jenter can.

I am DEEPLY uncomfortable with no night two action at all.

Once again, this did stick out to me as well, however, to be fair, IS

was

waiting to be replaced for a large part of the game.

[Kison]

IS = IH

[Kison]

There were only two not innocents at the beginning of the day, you and Kison, so There was no way *In my mind* you would have gotten an innocent. If in fact you had I would have unvoted and gone after Jenter... as he would then be lying. However this was also before I started thinking about the probability of a Godfather.

Hi Korly. Why were you so certain Guardian woulda come up guilty? If you already said it, please direct me to where you said it, not trying to make you repeat yourself here, but I don't recall of the top of my head.

Also,

who all has roleclaimed so far

? Pending that, I think we need to consider the possibility that one of the innocents thus far is a Godfather, but like I said, refreshing on the roleclaims would aid us with that.

See I would normally unvote come L-1 but I find it hard to do that because of the giant Ass he is being.. The way I see it either one of jenter and Chorx is the mafia with Kison, or Gaurd really is mafia... dangit... if not for that damn Godfather I wouldn't even be worried about it...

kk so I am what, mafia by default?

Well, Fonz isn't scum. Is Kison?

Hell yes I am. Not.

Am I suppose to be hammering this dude? I want my questions answered first !

[Kison]

vanilla.

who am i hammering?

[Kison]

Wow, ChronX, that was dumb of you.

I hadn't even noticed that.

Why not?

[Kison]

Unfortunately it's a 50-50 chance right now. One of Jenter or Guardian has to be scum. The question is, which?

No-one has counter-claimed Jenter's Mason claim, correct? And everyone has claimed, correct? Therefore, he must be the other Mason. How common are scum-town mason pairs?

As for Tracker, I've only seen it in one other game. However, I can see it as a feasible role in this game given that Jenter IS a scum Mason. If that is the case, it's a good balance for that, godfather(if there is one), and roleblocker(which was taken down already).

Question for Guardian : Why did you choose to track Jenter?

[Kison]

Guardian, if you're scum, I applaud your attempt to make me #1 lynch candidate tomorrow. The bad news is that no-one lynches Kison and gets away with it!

The reason I am very surprised by your choice of Jenter is that yesterday, you listed him somewhat low on your suspect list. You had Adel up there, and a few others who you said were considerably higher on your list. Why did Adel turning up town wash away your suspicions of those other players?

[Kison]

Uhh, if Guardian "flips" town, I do believe we enter into the stage of the game known as "Game Over".

More later.

[Kison]

Uhh, if Guardian "flips" town, I do believe we enter into the stage of the game known as "Game Over".

More later.

I said that in the part where I said, "we lose". Of course, if you aren't town, you wouldn't understand the "we" part.

If I was scum and Guardian was town, why is this game not over yet?

I don't "want to get the game over"....but I can't stand the "lets not lynch because something might happen" phase.

And I don't see you proposing anything new to discuss, just pontificating that there's no need to rush things. It doesn't make you look more town, you know.....

Someone's having a bad day!! Nice talking to you, too!

[Kison]

Hey Guardian, I said "More Later."

That translates to : "I'm not done yet."

And it's your lucky day, because later is now!

Guardian, if you're scum, I applaud your attempt to make me #1 lynch candidate tomorrow.

First, I'm not scum. Second, what the heck do you mean?

You're doing a good job trying to make me look overly innocent. You don't need to try if you're town, and that is yet another reason I am leaning towards hammering you. If Jenter is lynched and is the scum, then I am definitely not his partner. If I was, then you would be dead and this game would be over. That's a fact. Has nothing to do with my previous play throughout the entire game, which you annoyingly keep focusing on. So my question is, why are you displaying so much focus on my innocence? By default I am already one of the top lynch candidates tomorrow if you wind up being scum, and you showing obvious favoritism for me for things

that should no longer matter from your perspective as town

simply worsens my standing.

The bad news is that no-one lynches Kison and gets away with it!

If I didn't know better, from you not hammering me, I would think you were scum from that!

Why?

Also, you got a problem with my interrogation? Would you rather I skip it?

[Kison]

Participate more? I have been!

As for voting, you know that I'm leaning towards Guardian, so why are you rushing me when you yourself have not made up your mind, Korlash?

Chronx : Why do you not want more discussion?

I don't even understand this. You want to lynch me because I'm defending you? It makes perfect sense for me to defend you as town. Most everyone is trying to paint me-you as a scum pairing, when I know it is Jenter/ChronX -- I'd like to get us both out of that picture and into lynching them!

You're defending me on points that will be irrelevant when they matter. Also, Guardian, from everyone's perspective, I am hardly your only potential partner. So clearing me does NOT clear you - so don't use me as your shield.

Because it is indicative of a survivor/retributive mentality. If I didn't know you were town, I'd think that might be reflective of your state of mind re: this game...

Get a sense of humor, bub!

Uhh, if Guardian "flips" town, I do believe we enter into the stage of the game known as "Game Over".

More later.

I said that in the part where I said, "we lose". Of course, if you aren't town, you wouldn't understand the "we" part.

If I was scum and Guardian was town, why is this game not over yet?

Still no response to this !

I'll probably vote Guardian within the next day or two, as I think his defense is lacking significantly :

1) I don't follow the logic behind investigating Jenter, but this is rather minor.

2) I don't like how he's trying to make it sound like clearing me clears him.

3) I don't like how he pushed for Korlash despite his Tracker claim reasonably clearing him.

4) I find scum-town mason unlikely, though not impossible - but I never even bought the case on Jenter to begin with. I trust my gut and it's served me decently well so far !

So for those of you telling me I shouldn't be asking questions, I say silence!

[Kison]

OK I didn't get to respond because I

followed the rules

and didn't talk during twilight!

Participate more? I have been!

As for voting, you know that I'm leaning towards Guardian, so why are you rushing me when you yourself have not made up your mind, Korlash?

HA HA HA HA HA... Ahhh... oh boy... That makes me laugh... I try to get a reaction out of Guard and get one out of kison... Look dude, bad choice of words... "Rushing you" is clearly a bit overstated. I would like a lot more then you have given so far that is for sure. As for voting someone it is the time to take a stand.

Another bad choice of words: "Make up your mind" First off we are in LYLO, so making up your mind HAS to be hard for a town to do. Trying to attack(ish) me for being careful only strengthens my case on you tomorrow.

I never attacked you. My point is that you approached me in such a way that sounded as if you were annoyed that _I_ hadn't made up my mind while _you_ hadn't made up yours.

So for those of you telling me I shouldn't be asking questions, I say silence!

Who said this?

A combination of Guardian telling me to do more than ask questions, and ChronX implying that discussion was getting no-where.

If I was scum and Guardian was town, why is this game not over yet?

*Nods* so it is safe to say YOU are not scum while he is town. But you can still both be scum. Also you can both be town, and you can be town he can be scum. All possibilities covered, i feel it is most likely you two are scum...

I am quite aware of that possibility from anyone else's perspective, and have never denied it. If you look at what I was responding to, it was that ChronX implied that I could be scum with someone

besides

Guardian, which is clearly not true.

I'll probably vote Guardian within the next day or two, as I think his defense is lacking significantly :

Right... In order to save yourself tomorrow you kill the "No bus theory" by making sure every single person has voted him so far today. Also, you even have a chance to make ME the only one not on his lynch. Interesting...

My playstyle is consistent with how I approached this situation. Insinuating that I should have rushed to a decision is counter productive. Also, I find it laughable that you're implying that I'm setting you up despite how numerous times I have hinted on the unlikeliness of you being scum because of Guardian's faulty implications of you with regards to the tracker claim.

Horrible thing to try to turn on me, and the same could be said about your sudden vote on Guardian right now.

1) I don't follow the logic behind investigating Jenter, but this is rather minor.


2) I don't like how he's trying to make it sound like clearing me clears him.

3) I don't like how he pushed for Korlash despite his Tracker claim reasonably clearing him.

4) I find scum-town mason unlikely, though not impossible - but I never even bought the case on Jenter to begin with. I trust my gut and it's served me decently well so far !

now we are getting somewhere... First off... Where does it sound like clearing you clears him? I missed it.

Have you read any of Guardian's posts?

[Kison]

Here's the rundown as I see it :

The Fonz investigated everyone except for Guardian, myself, and Jenter.

Guardian is dead. He was scum. He was also the godfather. The game is not over. There is still scum left. Two Mafia dead implies there's a 3rd Mafia in a 12 player game. No double kills, and 2 is well, unbalanced?

That means from my perspective, the last scum has to be Jenter. The Fonz's sanity was proven normal because of the guilty he got a few days back on BoolKitty-scum. Since Guardian was also the GF, all innocents are legit unless something extremely ungodly is going on here.

However, that is only from my perspective - everyone else, as they see it, has a 50% chance of hitting the right person, because to everyone else, both Jenter and I are legitimate scum candidates. That leaves me in a rough spot, because Guardian and Jenter pulled off what looks like the ultimate BUS tactic yesterday, while Guardian buttered me up to be his partner.

Vote : Jenter

More later.

[Kison]

*nods* And there is my delema... I think Guard agreed with my "Logic" too quickly... he wanted me to think scum would not bus... Plus he did not do a good job of hiding the fact you two were related... In short... While I logically know your town, I cannot help but think you guy's planned it this way...

Who was this in response to?

For now I wanted to ask ChronX what he thinks about Voting Jenter for the moment. I mean having both Kison and Jenter at L-1 the entire day has to put them on edge and keep them careful right? I think it is an ok strategy, plus it leaves both me and him the chance to hammer if/when it comes time to.

With 4 voters, Jenter and I are logically going to be locked on one another. 3 votes to lynch, both can't be L-1 simultaneously. Just clearing up the confusion there.

[Kison]

- He's still saying GUARDIAN and I were mafia? Umm so you're saying at LyLo scum bussed each other, gave conflicting claims and spent an entire day desperately trying to do each other in? I mean ... hello? Neither Guardian nor I are fundamentally morons. A scum doing that would have to be fundamentally screwed up. Had gurdain and I been scum, we'd both have simply seen who Fonz didn't have an innocent on (Kison), Guardian would have claimed his track on him and away we go.

All you had to do was secure a win, even if pulling the ultimate BUS was all that was required.

- Guardian buddied and protected him all day yesterday.

Goes with #1.

- As soon as day started, he made a very defensive, nervous post, looking desperate this early in the day looks scummy as a townie would just give his thoughts without feeling the need to shelter.

I had that post prepared, but I didn't post it during twilight since we weren't suppose to. Perhaps you can show me how I was nervous, because I don't recall being nervous. Unless, of course, responding to points against me is considered nervous. The alternative, which is ignoring, is what I call counter-productive.

- Only player still alive who has never voted for a scum in the entire game.

Umm, I hammered BoolKitty after being prodded, and I said I was prepared to hammer Guardian, but Korlash jumped the gun when I announced it. Why are you lying?

[Kison]

Securing a win could have been done with much less blood lost yesterday had Guardian and I been scum. Also, why would Guardian have risked blowing his cover to go after me as his buddy?

What I'm saying is this : You cannot say to Korlash and ChronX that simply because Guardian went after you yesterday, that you are town and I am scum. The entire plot yesterday very easily could have been to have Guardian(GF) go after Jenter(Goon) and have Jenter lynched, night kill The Fonz(cop) and leave everyone open as a suspect because the Godfather had not been found. This would easily secure a win for Guardian.

On the flipside, even though things went bad for Guardian, it leaves me, the only other uninvestigated player, open as a very likely target because of the BUSing tactic.

Am I telling Korlash and ChronX to accept the above as true? No. I know it is true, but that is because I know my role, and you are the only other alternative. To Korlash and ChronX, it is just as likely that I was indeed Guardian's scumbuddy and that his buttering up was legitimate. It is 50% that they get it right.

The only thing I can do is to ask you two to look back and realize I have been consistent with my play the entire game.

You're right, I apologise, I only flicked through the top of page votecounts to check that fact.

However, now I look at that post it's not exactly the best hammer ever. You come straight back after a prod, and then do you wait to make up your mind? Nope, you go ahead and lynch.

Jenter - If I had hesitated, and someone else hammered, would you also be using this against me? I believe the answer to this question is yes. Why? Because your initial accusation was that I never voted scum in the first place. It was the obvious correct choice. What alternative did we have? Lynch The Fonz? That is a dumb move - if you want to test a cop claim, you don't lynch the cop in most cases. You lynch the investigated target. Guess what? It was the right move.

You can't call me scum for not voting scum, then call me scum for voting scum.

Particularly with the Fonz sanity thing, this was an extremely ill advised action as town, and quite frankly looks like scum trying to get townie points by getting a hammer in.

I don't follow. Clarify?

[Kison]

With 4 voters, Jenter and I are logically going to be locked on one another. 3 votes to lynch, both can't be L-1 simultaneously. Just clearing up the confusion there.

Um.. you vote jenter, chronX votes jenter thats a L-1, jenter votes you I vote you thats a L-1, you will both be at L-1... *duh* with either me or ChronX begin the "Hammer" voter. Won't do a lot I know, but I think it could be worth it to see how you all react.

Good call, never thought of that scenario.

What I'm saying is this : You cannot say to Korlash and ChronX that simply because Guardian went after you yesterday, that you are town and I am scum. The entire plot yesterday very easily could have been to have Guardian(GF) go after Jenter(Goon) and have Jenter lynched, night kill The Fonz(cop) and leave everyone open as a suspect because the Godfather had not been found. This would easily secure a win for Guardian.

What is with the mafia failing in their fake stuff this game? You have completely missed the mason thing... You phail! Bad Kison... bad...

Jenter is the mason, mafia or town is still in jury. There has been no counterclaim after what.. 3 days now? 2? I mean come on...

Mason != innocent. I've never denied that Jenter is the Mason. Please do not imply that I have.

On the flipside, even though things went bad for Guardian, it leaves me, the only other uninvestigated player, open as a very likely target because of the BUSing tactic.

um... Jenter has not been investigated either. Well not by a real investigator... Another phail...

I said the only OTHER uninvestigated player. In that scenario, I said Guardian dies. It's Jenter's perspective. I am the OTHER.

Am I telling Korlash and ChronX to accept the above as true? No. I know it is true, but that is because I know my role, and you are the only other alternative. To Korlash and ChronX, it is just as likely that I was indeed Guardian's scumbuddy and that his buttering up was legitimate. It is 50% that they get it right.

You know it is true? So your telling me there is a goon and not a mafia mason?

You know what I meant. When I say goon, I mean non-Godfather.

The only thing I can do is to ask you two to look back and realize I have been consistent with my play the entire game.

That makes you town how?

What makes me scum, Korlash?

Ok... i see no reason to move my vote... I think we once again got a scum who does not think his fake things out fully.

I've responded to you being picky about my wording. Perhaps you can point out what I am faking.

[Kison]

Mason != innocent. I've never denied that Jenter is the Mason. Please do not imply that I have.

No, that is not what I meant. I mean, in the scenario you gave, you said he was a goon and not a mason. Very big mistake on your part.

You know what I meant. Goon, as in, not mason. You are being picky with my wording.

You may think that the *fake* (Better word= Possible I guess) scenario you gave is accurate and that calling Jenter a goon means nothing, but to be honest, you will have to at some point throw the "mafia mason" attack out there, and this little "miswording" as your running with it kinda hurts you here. Either you know he is the mafia mason, or your a goon and know that the third mafia is a goon and thus you just slipped up.

ChronX, yes, ChronX, because you, Korlash, are not listening to me. ChronX, have I ever denied that Jenter was the Mason? I think it's OBVIOUS that he is. For you to use this against me is begging for a reason to have me voted out.

Find a better reason, because that's really begging for it. Where I called Jenter a goon, I was not focusing on that ASPECT of it. It was an obvious misuse of the word.

[Kison]

Goon as in NOT GODFATHER.

Freudian slip

[Kison]

Well, Korlash, I've pointed out how I've accepted the Mason claim. ChronX agrees it was an obvious what I meant. You, however, don't think it was. I cannot really say much else to please you since you don't buy it, so we'll have to agree to disagree on whether or not I was somehow trying to sneakily mislead the town on a moot point.

More later.

[Kison]

Whoa...? That was WAY too rushed.

Good job scum.

[Kison]

Good game.

Guardian and I should've switched the role-claim to me. I didn't realize it until it was too late.

[Kison]

Kison clearly wished for more time in his post-lynch post.

Not really. I knew I was more than likely fucked no matter what. Just hoped to make you think you made the wrong move for a moment!

[Kison]

BTW, me calling Jenter a Goon was NOT me trying to be sneaky.