Mini 488 - Killings in Clich├®-town - Game Over!

[Guardian]

hey guys! I'm going to start reading tonight and post whenever I'm done. I am free for a bit but friends coming over later so I may not be able to finish tonight, but I expect to be able to post in the next few days.

I'ma bring life back to this game .

[Guardian]

Hey -- I'm not a mason. Hopefully time to read tomorrow or the next day .

[Guardian]

I re-read, here are my thoughts as I can remember. Just want to say, this game is conusing with so many replacements, I hope I didn't misplace who was who. Also, head honcho I thought was quite scummy, then the claim. Ditto with Jenter... and ChronX. So I'm a bit confused. Anyways:

2. ChronX (replacement for SPAG, replacement for Ekto)
-spag was really suspicious, and I didn't like chronX's play much either. I didn't like his suspicions iirc, and the recent "oh no actives I'll quit" mentality strikes me as scum who is frustrated townies are afk. however, innocent result, so I don't think he's the play for today.

5. Kison (replacement for Hand banana)
Pretty town, suspicions made sense.

6. The Fonz (replacement for Head_Honcho)
Probably the cop.

7. Guardian (replacement for IH)
Me

8. Jenter Brolincani
Pretty scummy, didn't like the defense of Bookitty at all. But Mason. I'm going to assume townie mason for now, despite the play.

10. vollkan (replacement for slash)
Pretty town, reasonable suspicions, innocent result.

11. Adel (replacement for Gatorguy91, replacement for TheDeepFriedNinja)
Adel has been pretty scummy, don't like the suspicions or minimalism (esp. cuz this is not typical of her-town). The one thing I agree with her on is that with so many 'confirmed' innocents and town power, there is probably a godfather (or POSSIBLY a mafia mason).

12. Korlash (replacement for The Central Scrutinizer, replacement for trumpezia)
I like the Adel vote tbh, though a lot of his reasons are a bit OFF, I don't particularly understand his suspicion of IH... he's in pretty scummy for me right now. I think it is likely that exactly one of he & Adel are scum, I want to hear more from them.


I'm not going to vote Adel to -1, but I think that maybe a claim is in order.

FOS: Adel

fos: Korlash

[Guardian]

ok, definitely time for a claim then, and some serious explanation-ing.

[Guardian]

2. ChronX (replacement for SPAG, replacement for Ekto)
-spag was really suspicious, and I didn't like chronX's play much either. I didn't like his suspicions iirc, and the recent "oh no actives I'll quit" mentality strikes me as scum who is frustrated townies are afk. however, innocent result, so I don't think he's the play for today.

For what its worth about the quitting thing, I have asked for replacement in all but one game; that game is actually being played. It has nothing to do with me being scum or not; I don't like mafia games that last 7 months. I prefer to play at the site I came from where the games take less than 2 weeks, and there is a waiting list of 4 to 5 potential replacements, so people don't have the leisure to go afk. Elias begged me to stay here and I agreed since he had 2 pending replacements. So asking to replace out of 5 games is hardly a scum tell in all of them (or unlikely to be).

ok.

As to the rest of your "case" on me....what is it, exactly. Which of my suspicions don't you like? Can you be a bit more definitive?

Not without re-reading again. I see no reason to right now. I'm not all about building cases,

especially

on people I'm not tryna lynch.

Or are you just casting an OMGUS suspicion my way since I was very vocally suspicious of IH with my postings, and now I'm voting your scumbuddy Adel? Do you think we won't notice that you express your desire to be on the Adel wagon, but content yourself with an FoS? Do you think we will forget that IH was conspicuously absent from the Bookitty wagon? Do you think we will forget that IH conveniently took the heat off by going AWOL when he has been a leading suspect?

Do you think that asking suspicious rhetorical questions is going to improve my opinion of you and actually get any new information, or did you only ask those questions to slyly cast suspicion on me while leaving me without good answers?

[Guardian]

Wooh, lots of discussion. I bring life to dis gamez .

I'm not really trying to be sly. You are suspicious since your predecessor was. Your contribution is apparently going to be slim anyway, since you "aren't all about building cases". Instead, you will post things like "I don't think he's the play for today" about someone the cop has an innocent on. Are you saying I'm the play for tomorrow? Are you speculating that I might be a godfather, the way Adel has done with Vollkan?

That's something of a misrepresentation. I don't want to build cases on those I'm not interested in lynching at the moment. That is not to say I'll never be interested in building cases. Those two concepts are miles away from each other.

You could be a godfather, and could be the play for tomorrow, depending on what happens from now 'til then.

---

Oh, I like how you agree with Adel about the theory of Mafia Mason too. I've never heard of mini game with a mafia-town mason setup that (a) started with night and (b) didn't have a suicide pact involved. Are you seriously speculating a role where the town mason would have to not be NK'd on Night Zero for it to have any value? I understand the theory (provides safe claim for the mafia partner) but in a normal mini? Thats a pretty harsh role to impose on the town half...1/11 random chance that the doc saves, otherwise, thanks for signing up.

I don't think mafia mason is particularly likely, but I certainly wouldn't hate Elias forever or some such thing if he included it. The fact that the mason got killed night one, and that it says

innocent

mason both make me think this could be more likely.

---

claim

vanilla townie. better to lynch me than someone who may be the doc.

I suspected you'd be vanilla. Hm. I'm definitely not interested in hammering at the moment.

@guardian- it has been several months since we played in a non-mishmash game together. my style has evolved.

OK, I can accept that, and it explains your play here as plausibly being town. And ditto .

---

Oh, I like how you agree with Adel about the theory of Mafia Mason too. I've never heard of mini game with a mafia-town mason setup that (a) started with night and (b) didn't have a suicide pact involved. Are you seriously speculating a role where the town mason would have to not be NK'd on Night Zero for it to have any value? I understand the theory (provides safe claim for the mafia partner) but in a normal mini? Thats a pretty harsh role to impose on the town half...1/11 random chance that the doc saves, otherwise, thanks for signing up.

additional evidence that ChonX, while probably town, is wasting all of our time by pounding drivel into the thread.

when it comes to mafia theory, Chronix<Adel<Guardian

Guardian always has his facts straight and his theory is sound, regardless of his alignment. Spend some more time reading, especially games Guardian has played in, and less time typing.

Talk less, listen more.

xD. I'm honored. Probably untrue about

always

having straight facts and sound theory, but I truly appreciate the compliment.

---

OK, so let me understand.

You MISTAKENLY said we should lynch Kison next, but meant Korlash, who you are voting for. Your case on lynching Korlash is....

well now, that vote certainly convinced me. unvote, vote:Korlash

an OMGUS vote. Right. You have NEVER mentioned Korlash's predecessor as suspicious. You agreed with one thing he said, the only reference to him by you in the whole thread.

But, in your most recent post, you say you will support a lynch "from beyond the grave" on Jenter...who is neither Korlash nor Vollkan (nor even Kison).

Adel, I was about to ask you about this -- could you respond to ChronX here?

[Guardian]

Simulpost...

The one question I would ask Adel is this: Does it make sense that a mafia mason would kill their mason partner N1? I mean, my initial thought on reading your theory was that it would make more sense for a mafia mason to keep the partner alive, to manipulate them.

I'll definitely respond to this after Adel does, or before if you would like.


Vollkan, who do you feel is a good lynch, if not Adel?

[Guardian]

My response to vollkan's question -- if the innocent mason's pm said something explicit like "the alignment of your parter is not guaranteed" I know that I, as mafia mason, would want that guy dead -- a confirmed power role is as good as you're going to get with a night one kill, and one with that kind of baggage is one I wouldn't want to keep around in hopes of convincing to vote with me.

And, IF there is a mafia mason, I would bet Elias put something like that in the town-mason's pm, to prevent complaints later.

[Guardian]

do you still want me to? I remember unanswereed questin as being really high on your list of pet peeves. I believe my answer is implied in previous posts, but I could be more explicit if needed.

Yeah -- maybe I'm just thick, but I can't really see your definitive answer -- if you could lay it out again/explicitly I'd appreciate it.

[Guardian]

Woah -- just because Jenter

may

be mafia, doesn't mean he's good play for today. I think it is highly more likely that he isn't -- just that he is is something plausible to discuss, and to keep in consideration for later days. You both think it is a good idea to lynch him today?

Adel, Korlash's one post was enough to convince you? That seems rather impulsive/weak.

I'd love to hear more thoughts from the four who haven't posted during our one/two pages of content.

[Guardian]

Adel, Korlash's one post was enough to convince you? That seems rather impulsive/weak.

impulsive. accurate. true.

But then you said you were pretty convinced he was scum, no? You are convinced of this because of one post??

HOS: Adel

I don't know if we are going to get any better than lynching this claimed vanilla. Really, I'm thinking Adel or Korlash is scum, and Adel has definitely been more suspicious.... This last post and her push on a mason for TODAY's lynch both seem really weak to me...

I think of all the remaining players she has the greatest likelihood of being scum, possibly with vollkan as a godfather or something. I don't want Jenter lynched, nor do I think it is a particularly good idea to get more claims out before we go to night.

Adel, anything that's going to convince me not to vote you? I'm thinking you're scum, and I'm about ready to hammer.

[Guardian]

Guardian, you still haven't mounted an actual case for Adel being scum.
Why is Adel's behaviour more likely to be reflective of her being scum than of her simply being a reaction-seeker?

I would have thought that, being one of the more experienced players here, you would be a little more wary of lynching on the basis of what is pretty blatant reaction-seeking.

Acting really scummy and then calling it reaction seeking.... is scummy. Having someone else act really scummy and then defending them by calling it reaction seeking? scummy++

That's it...A post which fits the profile of reaction-seeking and the justified pursuit of a scummy-as-all-hell mason?

My scumdar is tingling, and it isn't at Adel.

Jenter may be scummy as hell -- but I think the possibility of Jenter scum is remote, compared to say, Adel scum, Korlash scum, or even vollkan scum or ChronX scum. Masons in normal games are typically pro-town. Yeah, it is possible, and I think it is definitely a good idea to keep it in our mind. But seriously, I don't want to lynch a mason today over a non-investigated 'vanilla townie' who has also been scummy.

[Guardian]

I disagree. Your laying these traps was scummy. It might have been counterbalanced by other factors, but laying them is scummy.

If not, then people could do anything, and come up with some BS reason about how they were laying a trap.



Also, you claim Adel was 'reaction seeking' not trap laying. How are her votes of Korlash and pursuit of Jenter at all analogous to your examples?

[Guardian]

i agree with vollkan.

Wow. That

really

isn't the ground breaking analysis I was looking for. WIFOM connection with vollkan as well...

@guardian: there is nothing that i can say to convince you otherwise. are you really willing to hammer? here is your chance to prove you do not bluff.

You know what? When someone tries to bait me into voting them at lynch minus one, I get really suspicious. Twice this has happened and twice I have hammered, and twice they have been scum. Let's go for 3/3.

vote: Adel

.

[Guardian]

Wow, today started quick. Well, especially with The Fonz claiming a non-guilty result, I have something to share....

Adel and vollkan actually knew what they were talking about re: Jenter:

I'm a tracker, and I tracked Jenter last night. Jenter targeted vollkan.

I targeted Jenter because I was more suspicious of him after Adel turned up town, and I thought if he was scum with someone, it would be likely for him to do the killing, since it was least likely he would be caught.

Having claimed mason, I don't see how Jenter can explain targeting vollkan without being scum.

vote: Jenter

IH targeted Deepfriedninja night 0, and he targeted no one. This is why I said yesterday 'vanilla would be the only claim I believed' of Adel. If she said doctor or something, I'd have known that was a lie.

IH targeted Bookitty night 1, and she targeted TCS. Not useful now.

IH wasn't here night 2, so no result there.

Night 3, I targeted Jenter for the reasons I said.

---

Korlash, I am deeply saddened by your vote before Fonz even posted. Honestly, it is pretty idiotic, what if he had an innocent on me? And Fonz definitely could be scum, there are way too many power roles, and also way too many innocent investigations. Jenter being a mafia mason helps that, but seriously, mason + doc + tracker + cop seems a bit MUCH without serious scum power.

From my POV, if Fonz is not scum there must be a maifa godfather, otherwise Jenter and Kison would be the last two scum. Kison really hasn't struck me as scum this game, so I highly doubt that scenario. I think highly more likely is a godfather among the innocent results, or Fonz being scum.

Either way, Jenter is the play for today.

[Guardian]

Bollocks. Guardian is therefore scum, due to the fact that I don't have a Night Action. Guardian knew I was town yesterday, so he blatantly set up the NK to make me look bad.

No argument here by you.

Assuming Fonzes innocence, my innocence, and Guardian's guilt;

- We must almost certainly have a godfather.
- Guardian is another goon.
- Korlash OR ChronX OR Kison is the Godfather, the other 2 we must assume are vanilla.

Again no argument, you assume I am guilty, which is a faulty assumption.

P.S. It would have been bloody idiotic of me as scum to kill Vollkan, since I'd been talking about him as my secondary target. I mean... do some poeple have a seriously sim view of my intelligence here?

High degree of WIFOM here.

P.P.S

vote guardian

P.P.P.S We ARE AT LYLO. WE MUST KILL GUARDIAN TODAY. TRUST ME.

Again no argument.

Bollocks. I'm not an imbecile; I know people have been looking at me as scummy, why the HELL would I risk getting tracked if I were scum?

If Korlash or Kison as your scum partner, they would be more likely to get tracked. Also, maybe you weren't thinking about there being a tracker? Either way, you messed up and you're caught.

[color]I would have got a buddy to do it, someone who (like the other 3 potential candidates, assuming Fonzes innocence) could come up with a powerrole. No, YOU knew that I was scummiest, so all you had to do was frame me at LyLo. If the town takes it hats off to you, but that's what you've done.[/color]

No argument here.

Spread supicion around, give yourself fallbacks, there's a good little scum. And one vote? It takes 3 to lynch here, it's not desperate, you weren't in danger of a pre-Fonz noose...

You aren't making sense here.

P.S. Of corse if you look at this as me, doc+masons+cop w/ 2 goons+GF looks more realistic and balanced does it not?

What makes you say doc + masons + cop w/2 goons + GF is likely? You know for a fact Fonz is the cop?

Why not doc + masons + cop w/ 2 goons and ROLEBLOCKER? Maybe you KNOW there is a GF? Yeah? Yeah.

Jenter, you really haven't made any argument for why you aren't scum and why I am, have provided the town with no reason not to trust my claim, and I believe you slipped and let us know that there is a GF, as you automatically included it in your assessment of who is alive.

If I was lying and Fonz isn't, maybe there wouldn't be a GF, since 2 masons, cop, and doc, vs goons + roleblocker would be reasonable.

But with town-mason + doc + tracker + cop, the mafia would HAVE a godfather, wouldn't it? Just like you assumed.


In sum, Jenter has largely just yelled "Guardian -- SCUM", relied heavily on WIFOM, and is desperately trying to get you not to believe me.



@Fonz, I almost wish you'd said you investigated me, then I would have a better idea of your alignment, and if you are a cop, which I *think* is likely, you'd have an innocent on me.

And I wanted to claim before you claimed your result, btw -- just I never checked mafia scum until this morning, when I started F&E day 4.

Lastly, I made sure to hint at my claim yesterday re: Adel. I don't know if IH did anything to hint, I haven't analyzed him, but feel free to look over his play and see if it is consistent with him being a tracker. It will be .

[Guardian]

Bollocks. Guardian is therefore scum, due to the fact that I don't have a Night Action. Guardian knew I was town yesterday, so he blatantly set up the NK to make me look bad.

No argument here by you.

Guardian, dude, there's no argument here from you either. His argument is 'I did not perform a night action last night, so Guardian is scum' to exactly the same extent that yours is 'I DID see him perform a night action, so HE is scum.' Neither of you needs an argument beyond the other having a contradictory claim to vote the other.

That's true -- but he is trying to make it look like he is making an argument -- which he wasn't.

This means the remaining town will have to rely on traditional day scumhunting to win the day. This doesn't faze me.

Good! By all means.

@Fonz, I almost wish you'd said you investigated me, then I would have a better idea of your alignment, and if you are a cop, which I *think* is likely, you'd have an innocent on me.

And I wanted to claim before you claimed your result, btw -- just I never checked mafia scum until this morning, when I started F&E day 4.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda. If you HAD, your claim looks stronger- but then, perhaps you didn't intend to, and are only saying it to look more town?

You claimed within a few hours of day starting. If I recall correctly, my computer was off and I was getting ready for bed. It's really hard for me to post before you when you post before I see that day has started.

AS I said, it'll come down, for me, to reading you both in isolation. I am DEEPLY uncomfortable with no night two action at all.

Why is that?? There was no person in the role, so Elias told me he assigned no action that night. Your problem is with him, not with me.

[Guardian]

Korlash, I am deeply saddened by your vote before Fonz even posted. Honestly, it is pretty idiotic, what if he had an innocent on me? And Fonz definitely could be scum, there are way too many power roles, and also way too many innocent investigations. Jenter being a mafia mason helps that, but seriously, mason + doc + tracker + cop seems a bit MUCH without serious scum power.

It is not idiotic. I choose to believe him. And thus the only two possible scum are you and Kison. Of course that is me counting Jenter out... Personally I feel that is good enough logic. However, yes he could be lying. And so we now have the rest of the day to figure that out...

If Fonz had an innocent result on me, your vote WOULD look idiotic now.

Just because Fonz chose not to investigate me does voting at presumably lylo BEFORE Fonz revealed his investigation doesn't make your vote any less stupid. If Fonz had investigated me instead of you, you'd be looking incredibly scummy right now, even now I'm thinking Korlash + Jenter is a distinct possibility.

Either way, Jenter is the play for today.

Nope... Jenter is not today's play... Today's play would then be Kison... As he is the only one that has not had any claim what so ever... out of the three (Jenter, Guard, and Kison) Two of them are "claimed" town. however, both claims are pretty iffy.. A cop and a tracker seem a bit unlikely but possible, and a mason claim is also a not-so-bad one this game yet is not a given proof...

Actually, you may have a point there. How does this correlate with you keeping your vote on me?

However this puts us in a bad situation. As the cop will most likely die tonight... If a mislynch would not end the game I could see a Jenter lynch. We lose the cop tonight but if we have another day then of course we would know the scum...

After reading the new stuff I think I may have changed my mind... being as how we are at LYLO... Apparently... we would have to kill a a scum... And while I find it hard that Guard would bus has partner at LYLO, I there have to believe one of them is scum while the other is innocent... Which of course means that Kison is the most logical choice still as he would be the other scum. But the talk of a "godfather" makes me doubt ChronX now..

It sounds like you want to lynch anyone but you and Jenter today.

But I will keep my vote for now for two reasons:
1) I find the claim of Tracker would definitely be the best scum move... as it also instills the fear of a God Father and thus eliminates the claimed innocents... So I am not inclined to believe this yet.

Reread me/IH and Jenter. Hopefully you find me/IH more likely to be town. If you do, lynching Jenter today is the play, we can figure out who to lynch next based on who is alive, etc.

2) This quote:

And Fonz definitely could be scum, there are way too many power roles, and also way too many innocent investigations.

really stuck out to me because you actually said it to me personally. So when you come back with:

and if you are a cop, which I *think* is likely,

I feel your earlier statement was to try and make me unvote and then this statement is just to try and get on the Cop's good side...

I'm unsure about it right now, but I am leaning that he is a cop. You seem 100% convinced of him, and then like .05% convinced of me. It seems like you are the one trying to get on his good side, not me.

I will of course do what the town wants

!?!?

the almost guaranteed mafia Kison, or the maybe mafia Guard. But I feel my vote is well placed for now...

So while Kison is almost guaranteed mafia, and I am maybe mafia, you feel it is best to keep your vote on me???

Wow, wtf.

[Guardian]

Actually, the vote on you is doing a lot of good, IMO.

Why do you feel this way?

[Guardian]

Click my wiki and metagame me. I am being calm cool and collected right now, for me, and even if I were going out of my mind, "leading scum tell" my ass. I've been lynched at least 2 times for it, all town.

And seriously, Korlash's vote

is

idiotic. Fonz just as easily could have investigated me and gotten an innocent.

[Guardian]

~~~~~~~~~

Votecount

~~~~~~~~~

Post 519.

Guardian - 3 -

(Korlash, Vollkan, Jenter)

Jenter - 1 -

(Guardian)

Not Voting - 2 - (Kison, ChronX)

With six alive, it takes

four

to lynch.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Elias, I'm pretty sure vollkan is dead, and that Fonz isn't voting.

oopsies.

[Guardian]

And seriously, Korlash's vote is idiotic. Fonz just as easily could have investigated me and gotten an innocent.

*bangs head*

I'm serious is he just plain missing my point or ignoring it?

This is the last time I will say it:

There were only two not innocents at the beginning of the day, you and Kison, so

There was no way *In my mind* you would have gotten an innocent

. If in fact you had I would have unvoted and gone after Jenter... as he would then be lying. However this was also before I started thinking about the probability of a Godfather.

Now I get it. You were unwilling to consider options other than me and Kison before the day started.

Idiot, or scum?

Yes, but why should he not have voted until he'd checked? You'd still be at -2, and the chances of a double hammer without him noticing, even at LyLo, are miniscule.

QFT

Buddies?

[Guardian]

I'm thinking Korlash + Jenter here. Pretty sure about it.

Oh well, Fonz, Kison, one of you vote me and lose the game plz thx. I really do hate this site.

[Guardian]

Interesting set of claims

Fonz: claimed cop, innocents on ChronX and Korlash (and Vollkan, dead doc)
Jenter has claimed mason...some speculation on whether he is mafia mason
Guardian claims Tracker, claims to have tracked Jenter to Vollkan's house

We know we HAD an "innocent" mason, which may imply the mafia mason role
We HAD a doc
There was a mafia roleblocker

I hate trying to second guess the mod, but if we really had a cop and a tracker, there would almost certainly have needed a Godfather to balance that off

Best play would seem to be Jenter, pending what he has to say.

Kison could be anything, either Korlash or I could be godfather. Fonz or Guardian could be fake claiming, but I doubt it. If Guardian is fake claiming and is mafia, then Korlash is the other mafia (note that in Guardian's claim, Bookitty targetted TCS which is now Korlash). This is too paranoid for making the basis of a vote, IMO.

I will most likely vote Jenter but want to hear from him first. The only thing that bothers me is that the mod so heavy handedly put that innocent mason thing in there.

vote: Guardian

Your anger/sarcasm is really rubbing me the wrong way, and no, I'm not going to meta you to find out you are just a dillhole. Korlash's explanation is very rational:

Lets stipulate that Korlash is town. He therefore wouldn't need Fonz to tell him that he, himself, is town, he'd know. He believes Fonz's cop claim, and believed his innocent on me and Vollkan. He believes Jenter to be town in the absence of a counter claim. Thus, process of elimination, Guardian and Kison must be scum.


This is really the simplest explanation, and we've all heard of Occam.

Call my vote a policy vote against anger if it turns out you aren't scum. You are acting scummy.

Idiot much?

Yes. Yes, definitely.

I post, and Jenter posts once, and so you change 180 degrees and vote me. If you're not scum, which I am thinking you aren't, please quit mafia.

Meta is a good 50% of mafia if you can get it. You're the dillhole .

[Guardian]

See I would normally unvote come L-1 but I find it hard to do that because of the giant Ass he is being.. The way I see it either one of jenter and Chorx is the mafia with Kison, or Gaurd really is mafia... dangit... if not for that damn Godfather I wouldn't even be worried about it...


screw it I don't care anymore he plainly said he doesn't care about this site...


(Question to Fonz)

Was there a particular reason you investigated me last night?

So -- you don't care if a townie is lynched -- because I don't care.

Dillhole count: 3, apparently, including me.

Peace & Love. .

[Guardian]

You know what, I've decided that I don't want to let my frustration and your equally immature response(s) to it let us lose this one.

Whichever (or both??) of you is town, think about this:

Assume, even, that I am scum. How did I know that Adel *had no night choice*? I couldn't have said that more clearly without prematurely claiming -- and even if I am scum and I knew she was town -- how would I know that she didn't target anyone night zero?

The most plausible answer -- I'm not scum. IH targeted her role N0, and got no result. So she was not an every night power role. If she had claimed doctor, I'd have hammered instantly, since I *knew* she had no night choices then.



Aside from that, seriously, my play and IH's has been more scummy than Jenter's? I'm willing to concede that I've been more immature and frustrated, but Jenter's play has had many flaws.

And I hate to use this against him as it isn't particularly reliable, but he's the only player who hasn't been replaced. From my experience, from a meta standpoint, scum are much less likely to want replacement than pro-town players.

Anyways, sorry for PMSing on you guys, I hope you can look past that and see that I'm telling the truth and that' Jenter is scum.

And seriously, someone unvote, I think it is unlikely at this point, but I'd hate for this to end by Fonz or Kison coming and quick-hammering after all this discussion.

[Guardian]

Well, Fonz isn't scum. Is Kison?

Yesterday, you did not ONCE say that Adel had no night choice, and indeed vanilla is not the only role that sends no night choice - others include BPT, Mason, Scum goon who didn't do the kill...

I didn't explicitly say "hey all, I'm a tracker, and Adel had no night choice night 0". But what more did you want than this?:

claim

vanilla townie. better to lynch me than someone who may be the doc.

I suspected you'd be vanilla. Hm. I'm definitely not interested in hammering at the moment.

Note Jenter's blatant deception.

So I'm scum for being reliable? WOW, your scumdar amazes me...

Jenter -- that is less than 1% of my argument against you. You can have it. The only thing I ask others to take note of is that

Jenter implicitly concedes that I am using a scumdar

. He isn't responding -- oh, that's BS, you're lying. He is responding -- oh, bad argument. This is a tacit admission that I'm town. Think about that.

Jenter is scum, seriously.

[Guardian]

Well, with no hammer from Kison, Jenter + Korlash or Jenter + ChronX is the scum pair, and I'm heavily thinking the former.

Korlash's sureness of what he wants to happen today without even waiting for the cop results is pretty convincing for me...


In any even Jenter needs to be lynched today. Let's get this right!

[Guardian]

Korlash, repeating something over and over (hopefully) won't fool anyone. I can see how you feel the need to try and get someone to hammer me and win the game for you, though.

At this point, if you are town, I'm incredibly disappointed in your play.

I think ChronX is the 4th townsperson, and I'm hoping he, Fonz, and Kison get this right .

[Guardian]

SInce

you don't have a fundamentally believable claim, Guard

, what other points do you have that make me look scummy?

X

First, my claim makes perfect sense, especially with how I tried to plant the seed about Adel. And I'm sure it wouldn't be inconsistent with IH's play.

Second, I don't need points, I tracked you to the death of vollkan... I thought you were worth tracking, I got lucky and was right, that's all I need. Seriously...

[Guardian]

The major flaw? When you reach back and bring up your "plated seed" you are totally mistaken about it.

I completely disagree. What more did you want than "I thought you'd be vanilla"? Did you want me to say "Yes, you had no night once choice, eh?". That would have been retarded. That was the best I thought of on the spot, and I wasn't that worried about it because at that time I didn't think that people would disbelieve me if I had to claim.

[Guardian]

Wow, ChronX, that was dumb of you.

I hadn't even noticed that.

....I guess my read on Korlash is off? That really, really saddens me.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that ChronX is mafia with Jenter -- and ChronX just pointed it out to us .

I guess from your POV, if you get me lynched, its all the same if you and Jenter are a definite pair. But wow, yeah, I can't argue with the result Elias gave me, and the only thing that makes sense is Jenter-ChronX.

[Guardian]

~~~~~~~~~

Votecount

~~~~~~~~~

Post 599.

Guardian - 3 -

(Jenter, ChronX, the fonz)

Jenter - 1 -

(Guardian)

Not Voting - 1 - (Kison)

With six alive, it takes

four

to lynch.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bookitty was dead, and I didn't think about who she targeted beyond that. Knowing who she targeted didn't seem useful to me. Especially with TCS having been replaced, I didn't think about it as being relevant.

There is no "backpedaling". Those are the results that IH got/Elias gave to me, I just failed to interpret them --

as did everyone else

, until now.

[Guardian]

I know it is thanksgiving, but seriously?

Do you guys have anything to say, or any questions, or something??

[Guardian]

She was very suspicious at the end of yesterday, I hammered.

I knew if she were pro-town, it was unlikely for her to be a power role, as she had no night one choice. That didn't preclude her from being scum with someone else who made a kill night one.



Also, about me interpreting my results -- that isn't really a tell either way. As scum, I'd have just as much if not more incentive to figure out "good" results and what their implications were. Sorry for my lazyminded ness.

[Guardian]

.......

and it makes sense for scum Guardian not to do that?

................

[Guardian]

Also, setting up a doc claim, vollkan, etc.?? Where are you getting that from?

Fonz, seriously?

[Guardian]

The mafia had a RB. Meaning it is very likely we have both a tracker and a cop.

Eh, if that is all they had, not neccesarily. But evidently, they have a tracker and a godfather. In that case, it seems almost necessary that we have all the power roles that we do.

Guard has not pulled his vote off Jenter yet. Won't prove his claim but it definitely is what he should do if he is in fact a tracker.

Can you explain this? How would me unvoting Jenter make any sense at all for me to do? I tracked Jenter to vollkan. As... ChonX pointed out (nice play btw ) I also tracked TCS to you.

So from my POV, the scum

are

Jenter and ChronX. Would you rather I vote ChronX?

However knowing a mafia targeted me to RB and still trying to link me with Jenter as a scumpair is kinda ridiculous.

As soon as ChronX pointed this out, I realized that I had regrettably missed the implications of this, and realized that ChronX and Jenter are the scum....

He was at L-1 before... And wasn't hammered by Kison. So in my mind the pair is either Kison/Guard or Jenter/ChronX with me leaning a lot toward Guard.

Why?

We still have a bit of deadline to go so I don't want to end this right now. More talk I suppose.

Well, at least I appreciate you not throwing the game away on a whim.

[Guardian]

I see how you could misunderstand me here and so I will not resort to name calling. I meant the fact you have not switched your vote helps your tracker claim. I meant it as a pro point. In fact the only pro point you have on your side.

Ah. K.

But evidently, they have a tracker and a godfather

Your the only tracker I have seen claim so far. So your saying your a mafia tracker?

Typo. Expect Jenter & ChronX to jump all over this. I meant to say mafia mason and godfather.

So from my POV, the scum are Jenter and ChronX.

Why not Kison?

He didn't hammer me. You Fonz and Kison are cleared if I am town, since you've all not hammered me at lylo.

Why?

Either your lying or telling the truth.. there is no why... it's logic...

If your lying then either your partner is bussing or not voting you. Becuase the scum win with a mislynch a bus is a stupid idea today. And so either you are lying and your partner is someone who has not voted you... Kison duh... or your telling the truth and the two people on you are scum, Jenter and ChronX. Reason? You would have been hammered back when I was on your wagon if one of them was not scum.

So thus why my pairings are there. Unless the scum are completely idiotic, I am right in one of those. If the mafia did Bus today... well... Then they suck...

I meant why do you find me most suspicious. All your logic is correct there, though.

One last thing:

As... ChonX pointed out

Can you for once prove this or explain it for me? You keep saying it and i have no idea what you mean... Show me where he pointed it out...

Post 571 is where I responded.

Post 567 is where ChronX pointed out that he logically must be scum, if I am telling the truth.

[Guardian]

Re: that.

Kison really hasn't done anything scummy all game. And everyone is saying I must be scum -- with him. Think about that. I think Kison is objectively very likely to be town.

If I am scum, then it only makes sense for me to be scum with Fonz Kison or Korlash.

Fonz doesn't make sense, because then we have neither tracker nor cop. Korlash doesn't make sense, unless he is godfather.

Kison also really doesn't make sense, he has played really townlike, and is v. unlikely to be scum. Seriously, predicating your attack on me with Kison being scum is ludicrous. Kison has had so many opportunities in this game to support easy lynches, and hasn't. Really, Fonz/Korlash, if you think I am a good lynch because you think it is me-Kison, think again. That doesn't even make sense.


Sure, Jenter or ChronX could be scum with me. But that isn't the case. Why would I attack them?



Me not interpreting my results was very regrettable. Sorry.

But Fonz, honestly, your logic about why I wouldn't interpret them correctly as scum is bullshit. If I was scum, I'd be

more

careful to have results that make sense and also to interpret them carefully. I'd discuss them with the other mafia at night, and make sure that tracker was a good claim or whatever.

I am just reporting the results I got, and I didn't think about them critically enough -- Bookitty targeting TCS seemed irrelevant to me since Bookitty was dead and TCS wasn't playing. I did, however, put 1 + 1 = 2 togehter, and when Jenter targeted vollkan, I knew he was scum.

.......

[Guardian]

I targeted Jenter because I was more suspicious of him after Adel turned up town, and I thought if he was scum with someone, it would be likely for him to do the killing, since it was least likely he would be caught.

I thought if I was going to get lucky and track someone to anyone, it would be Jenter. And I did.


Korlash -- I don't understand how you are confused. ChronX pointed out that Bookitty blocking TCS, which is now you, would mean that you are a confirmed innocent, since Bookitty wouldn't block her partner. Since Fonz and Kison both had failed to hammer me, that meant that the last scum logically had to be ChronX. So in effect, he pointed out that he was scum, but it made sense for him to do so because it made me look bad for not figuring that out on my own.


Also, Korlash -- I get what you are saying, basing Kison's alignment off mine. But does assigning the value of scum to him make sense? Not to me. I can see how it seems to make sense to think I am scum. But I don't see how it makes sense to think Kison is scum. Everyone is saying that if I am scum, it must be with Kison. So that pairing, as a whole, doesn't make sense.

Jenter, and ChronX, on the other hand, both have been suspicious, and it makes sense to call both of them scum. That's what I'm saying.

[Guardian]

Guardian, if you're scum, I applaud your attempt to make me #1 lynch candidate tomorrow.

First, I'm not scum. Second, what the heck do you mean?

The bad news is that no-one lynches Kison and gets away with it!

If I didn't know better, from you not hammering me, I would think you were scum from that!

The reason I am very surprised by your choice of Jenter is that yesterday, you listed him somewhat low on your suspect list. You had Adel up there, and a few others who you said were considerably higher on your list. Why did Adel turning up town wash away your suspicions of those other players?

My investigation philosophy is investigate those I'm least sure of. If nothing came up on Jenter, I'd have waited for Fonz's results, and probably pursued Korlash today had there not been an innocent on him (yeah yeah, bad play in not figuring out he was confirmed town >.<), and as is, I'd have really re-evaluated my thoughts.

But what does it matter?? I tracked Jenter. Jenter=scum.

---

Um.. Guard... You kept saying ChronX pointed out you Tracked Vollkan.. he never did... Now your claiming you said he called himself scum for pointing out a flaw in your defense... Nice...

omg.... If you understood me and though I was scummy, I could live with it. You don't.

I was saying ChronX pointed out I tracked Bookitty, who targeted TCS. Bookitty presumably wouldn't block her scum partner.

THIS MEANS YOUR ROLE IS TOWN. The only scum option was Jenter-ChronX or Jenter-you. ChronX eliminated Jenter-you, making it obvious he was scum.

He didn't point out a flaw in my defense, he pointed out how I'd failed to fully interpret my results.

as for Kison he is the ONLY person who would logically be your partner. he has not voted you at all today, everyone else has. You earlier said my logic on this was sound. Why change now?

Your logic is still pretty sound. But it is highly implausible for Kison to be scum, imo. Trying to say that me-he are the scum pairing is folly.

You are looking at this from the POV of: Guardian is scum. His partner must be Kison.

That is a bad way of looking at it.

Instead, I am looking at it from: Guardian-Kison scum pair -- does this make sense as a whole? NO, because Kison hasn't been scummy.

Also i too believe Jenter would have been a bad track. Simply because he had all that "mafia mason" suspicion yesterday. i don;t think the mafia would have let him do the kill. BUt becuase there was no claimed Tracker I can see him doing the kill. I still cannot see why he was your pick... But eh... To each their own...

Adel's suspicioin of him peaked my suspicion. I decided to target him. I got lucky/good.

Damn, seriously, I tracked scum and am at lynch -1 at lylo. This is ridiculous.

[Guardian]

Be fair, he is at -1, I'm sure Korlash doesn't want to lose the game for town any more than you or I do.

Wow, the irony here is so thick... "any more than your or I do" -- you both would love to lose the game for town.

And ChronX trying to pressure Korlash into voting me by saying that Korlash is scummy otherwise?

Seriously...

[Guardian]

Guardian has every reason to fakeclaim there. If there is more than one scum left (very, very likely) then we're at LyLo.

My case rests on Fonz's quote above, scummy vibes/play from IH and the phoney baloney tracker claim. I was skeptical of the tracker claim because it is just too implausible, which is why I was reading Guardian's postings and read his claim with a fine tooth comb.

As Guardian correctly points out, Kison hasn't been too scummy. Voting for him would be a poor act under Lylo. I believe Fonz is the cop, since he would have been unlikely to bus a roleblocker IMO. I believe his innocent on me and Korlash. Again, to chase me or Korlash when AT MOST one of us could be investigation-immune mafia godfather would be poor play at lylo. Jenter is a mason of some sort since there hasn't been a counterclaim. He may or may not be a bad mason. Since he can't lawfully quote his role PM, we can't really know.

Guardian is a good odds-on play, since he hasn't been cleared, had a scummy predecessor, and has made a scummy-ish claim at Lylo. If we nab him as scum, we will be able to investigate all the WIFOMy and other stuff next day. He might turn out to be a godfather, which would clear me and Korlash entirely and let us be the hammer, thus depriving the remaining mafia that opportunity. Basically, Jenter would have to vote Kison and Kison would have to vote Jenter and then submit to interrogation by Korlash and I (assuming Fonz would be offed).

Your whole case:

"Well, I don't like the tracker claim. And, process of elimination, since I am not scum, and neither is Jenter. Therefore, Guardian must be scum."

Your case boils down to nothing.

[Guardian]

Why I'm voting guard, top 5 reasons;

#1 I know I didn't go anywhere near vollkan last night. He's lying, he knows all he has to do to win is get me dead.

Lie.

#2 He stupidly failed to realise the implications of his results, most likely because he cocked them up on the spot.

Truth -- then lie. I failed to realize them because I replaced in and didn't think critically enough about IH's results from nights ago.

#3 If guardian is telling the truth, the scumteam must be GF-RB-Scum Mason which is awesomely improbable.

Lie. With Tracker-cop-mason-doc, that scum team makes sense.

#4 He's only not been sus of one person currently alive (Kison), and has actvely defended Kison while spearding suspicion on EVERY OTHER PLAYER.

And this means, what exactly? Everyone is saying I'm scum with Kison. I'm saying I'm not scum, and that Kison isn't eihter -- so the team as a whole makes no sense.

#5 Guardian is the only player who does not either have a cop innocent or a claim that definitely exists.

Bull. Your town mason claim doesn't exist. And from your POV, neither does Fonz's claim -- or all the claimed townies.



These cases are made of thin air.

[Guardian]

Guardian, if you're scum, I applaud your attempt to make me #1 lynch candidate tomorrow.

First, I'm not scum. Second, what the heck do you mean?

The bad news is that no-one lynches Kison and gets away with it!

If I didn't know better, from you not hammering me, I would think you were scum from that!

The reason I am very surprised by your choice of Jenter is that yesterday, you listed him somewhat low on your suspect list. You had Adel up there, and a few others who you said were considerably higher on your list. Why did Adel turning up town wash away your suspicions of those other players?

My investigation philosophy is investigate those I'm least sure of. If nothing came up on Jenter, I'd have waited for Fonz's results, and probably pursued Korlash today had there not been an innocent on him (yeah yeah, bad play in not figuring out he was confirmed town >.<), and as is, I'd have really re-evaluated my thoughts.

But what does it matter?? I tracked Jenter. Jenter=scum.

Kison, hello? If you vote me without responding to this, then you're worse than Korlash. At least he is trying to figure this out, all I see you doing is sitting on your but and asking one random question then another, and not engaging in any discussion.

You've been really good all game, why slack off now?


Lasltly:

mod:

prod Fonz?

[Guardian]

Korlash, I'm just as happy lynching ChronX, but you *do* realize that the only person ChronX can be scum with is Jenter, right?

[Guardian]

You're doing a good job trying to make me look overly innocent. You don't need to try if you're town, and that is yet another reason I am leaning towards hammering you.

I don't even understand this. You want to lynch me because I'm defending you? It makes perfect sense for me to defend you as town. Most everyone is trying to paint me-you as a scum pairing, when I know it is Jenter/ChronX -- I'd like to get us both out of that picture and into lynching them!

If Jenter is lynched and is the scum, then I am definitely not his partner. If I was, then you would be dead and this game would be over. That's a fact. Has nothing to do with my previous play throughout the entire game, which you annoyingly keep focusing on. So my question is, why are you displaying so much focus on my innocence?

Because people keep trying to lynch me as your partner.

By default I am already one of the top lynch candidates tomorrow if you wind up being scum, and you showing obvious favoritism for me for things

that should no longer matter from your perspective as town

simply worsens my standing.

Again, untrue. It is pro-town for me to convince Fonz and Korlash that me-you pairing is unlikely.

The bad news is that no-one lynches Kison and gets away with it!

If I didn't know better, from you not hammering me, I would think you were scum from that!

Why?

Because it is indicative of a survivor/retributive mentality. If I didn't know you were town, I'd think that might be reflective of your state of mind re: this game...

Also, you got a problem with my interrogation? Would you rather I skip it?

I'd rather you come to some conclusions. All your questions seem rather tangential. Of course I don't want you to skip it.........

[Guardian]

Truth. Wow. A word.

All I was doing was pointing out that your "argument"/"reason for voting me" was no more than an assertion, with no evidence.

You've lost me here. explain please? I have claimed mason, everybody else has claimed, I am uncountered so I must from EVERYONE'S pov be the other mason. We KNOW the role exists. Fonz has a claim backed up by correct investigations and evidence. There are townies in this game, so we know that townie is a plausible claim. Tracker has no background, was claimed before anything else happened pretty much (but notably after Fonz posted his result for the night), and the town has no evidence you are telling the truth.

You must be the other mason -- but it is not at all confirmed that you are town -- as I have evidence that you are scum.

Fonz has a claim backed up by investigations. From your POV, he could be scum with me. Nice buddying though?

No townie is confirmed, and to assert that is laughable.

Come to my claim -- yeah, I didn't fully interpret my results -- but from soon after I replaced in I tried to leave a hint that I was in fact a tracker. You have ZERO logical reason to believe that my claim is less true than anyone else's, other than the fact that I tracked you to the dead doctor. Besides you and ChronX, who my role/results condemn to be scum, no other player has any legitimate reason to think my role is any less plausible than any other.

[Guardian]

Fonz, you're not playing mafia, you're playing outguess the mod.

And you're losing.

[Guardian]

i reread. you

are

playing outguess the mod, and losing. i at least was in a state of perfect information, and got it right.

i think it is cool moding, not bastard moding. shame you are so inclined to lose the game. i definitely am going to blame you korlash and kison, and myself, if we lose, not elias.


fonz, why don't you re-read your own post, the one you voted Jenter. maybe you'll remember a time when you didn't have your head up your ass.

[Guardian]

fonz, when i show up town, i get to bitch you out, ok?

cuz seriously, wtf.

[Guardian]

Dude, I replaced in because Elias practically begged me to, and I skimmed the game and tried to make sense of it as best as possible. I didn't even get my results immediately upon replacing in, I had to PM Elias and ask for them. I didn't think they were that important, and for this I am sorry.


To respond to your points:

a)I claimed a power at the time it had most benefit for the town for me to do so. Claiming yesterday would have been very bad.

b) I messed up interpreting my results.

c) My claim requires there to be the setup that is actually the setup. Regardless of how cooky (or awesome imo) you think it is, it is the setup.


q/a: Yes, I am. Unequivocally, lynching me is the wrong play here. Lynching Jenter (or ChronX) is the right play.

[Guardian]

WTF..............

imbeciles................................

seriously, fonz and korlash, go learn to play mafia.

wtf, gg scum.

[Guardian]

Gurdian's trying to make people slip still; trust me, wait til' sunday.

That's just cruel....

w/e, wait for Elias if you want.

[Guardian]

YES!

good game dudes =).

Knew that would work . hahaha.

[Guardian]

I can't speak to why it happened, but the mafia NK just before I replaced in was a horrible kill.


Also, I can't believe I wasn't investigated after hammering Adel. Kudos to Fonz on that.

After I wasn't, I should have "tracked" Kison; just he and I planned that I'd track Jenter. Oh well, my fault for getting lynched.

ChronX, there's such a thing as being a sore winner.

Well done town.