Mini Normal 1707 - Frog Mafia! - GAME OVER - TOWN WIN!

[ika]

i still think the double investigatve (even if it was odd/even) was a little lopsided to town

[Fro99er]

i still think the double investigatve (even if it was odd/even) was a little lopsided to town

I wanted to give scum a 1 or 2 shot roleblock, but the reviewers for balance wouldn't let me.

[ika]

i still think the double investigatve (even if it was odd/even) was a little lopsided to town

I wanted to give scum a 1 or 2 shot roleblock, but the reviewers for balance wouldn't let me.

i saw that and i think that would of at least ballaneced out the jker for us.

cus i mean in the way it went out, the jker is basically another cop to us. if it was doctor it would of been fine without RB.

*shrugs*

can we see review thread

[Fro99er]

Metal and I faced an odd/even investigative in BEES, and we had a perfect scum win with only an encryptor and 2 goons, so it's possible. Town also had an encryptor-enabler and two backup innocent children, so we could have lost our encryptorness and town had extra power compared to here.

I don't think this was too townsided, but maybe a tiny bit.

[Fro99er]

can we see review thread

It's a private topic N started, so I dunno if I can give you access.

[singersigner]

Gj town, sorry I wasn't super engaged for a while. I think I just expected to die and then when I didn't it just turned into a busier/more convoluted few weeks irl than I expected.

Um...balance was ok? Scum was really weak for the amount of named townies but sometimes that can self balance with rng to players and roles they get. The odd/even roles almost confirmed themselves, but a rolecop is a null/scum role typically so it balanced the gunsmith pretty well. Probably could've done without the JK since it's a pretty strong town role for what you were balancing around.

Otherwise, it was fun kind of watching people speculate when I tend to not care about speculation, lol. Good job modding your first game, Fro99er!

[Fro99er]

I really wanted that x-shot roleblock though...

[ika]

Metal and I faced an odd/even investigative in BEES, and we had a perfect scum win with only an encryptor and 2 goons, so it's possible. Town also had an encryptor-enabler and two backup innocent children, so we could have lost our encryptorness and town had extra power compared to here.

I don't think this was too townsided, but maybe a tiny bit.

Maybe, but in a hypoteticl worst case scnario (that kinda played out here) is that scums can get lynch and then guiltily back to back.

My mod model i run behind is "how fast can a faction lose", if towns lose in the first 2 days(ie lynch/multi/vig ect) town needs more power and/or sucms need a nerf. If the oppoiste is true (ie scum can get one cycled by investigations or stuff) then scums need a power buff and/or town need s a nerf

Again i enjoyed the game overall frogger and theres no harp on you, its more on the reviews side that i have problems with

pedit: i dont disagre rng can sometimes ballance it but i also try to take a real standpoint at the same time

[Fro99er]

I think certain reviewers have their own bias, and I definitely had reviewers flat out nix a few roles (like, "don't use this role" type stuff). Next time I might take it to a few friends and see what they think for balance, and just have it reviewed for normalcy.

I feel like the roleblock would have made balance almost perfect.

FWIW here's what I proposed after a few iterations:

How about this (going back to the first idea)

1. Goon
2. Encryptor or Goon
3. Roleblocker (X shots?)

4. VT
5. VT
6. VT
7. VT
8. VT
9. VT
10. Backup Vanilla Cop
11. Odd-Night Cop
12. Jailkeeper (X shots?)
13. Even-Night Role Cop

I'd like to keep an encryptor if possible, if not I'll just give mafia announced daytalk. So the Encyrptor/Goon, the X-shots on the roleblocker and x-shots jailkeeper can be figured out for balance.

[Fro99er]

And actually, on the current used setup (with no roleblock), one of my reviewers thought it could still be a tad bit scumsided.....

[quadz08]

In terms of balance, keep in mind that two scum were lynched in the first two days, with basically no PR input - that will make any game seem town-sided, regardless of actual balance.

[notscience]

baaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

[Fro99er]

In terms of balance, keep in mind that two scum were lynched in the first two days, with basically no PR input - that will make any game seem town-sided, regardless of actual balance.

Definitely.

Had scum not lost their PR D1, it could have been different and a whole lot closer.

[ika]

In terms of balance, keep in mind that two scum were lynched in the first two days, with basically no PR input - that will make any game seem town-sided, regardless of actual balance.

Even then, roles should account for such situations that come up.

[quadz08]

... No?

If scum gets lynched early, that is known as rewarding good town play (or punishing poor scum play - same net result). This should by definition result in scum having a worse chance to win. (The same applies in the reverse scenario.)

[ika]

... No?

If scum gets lynched early, that is known as rewarding good town play (or punishing poor scum play - same net result). This should by definition result in scum having a worse chance to win. (The same applies in the reverse scenario.)

*shrugs*

agree to disagree in general. I acknowledged that scums got lynch outside of PR play but in the big picture it could of been by PR play. I was looking at it on the net role and not net play.

[Ether]

Man. Town has been batting like 25% in 2015. People's perceptions of what's townsided and what's scumsided is really off. The gunsmith/cop duo only got the same number of investigations as one role would, and the fact that they were in two different players' hands meant they could accidentally investigate the same person, or each other. I don't know if they come out slightly better or slightly worse than a solo cop in practice, but a solo cop isn't enough to carry a game on its own anyway, so gaoler seemed like a good bet. I have no regrets about the balance of this game: the town earned its win!

(Bees probably shouldn't have passed, but I'm not going to get into that here.)

The scum in this game can lose in three days. That's...pretty much always true in every single game with 3 scum, unless you want to get into vigilantes and multiball and other ways to kill people faster. In this case, power roles weren't what did you in, and if they were, that would have tipped you off about their identities faster. (I say this. I'm basing this off of what quadz said, since I haven't actually read the game.)

[Fro99er]

No, you are right. And I will defend that town earned the victory.

But even town said it was too town sided so there is that. But I can't help but think it was influenced by town lynching the encryptor D1 which totally comes down to play, not setup.

Either way, I absolutely LOVED Ika's no kill and the speculation that ensued. I said in the review thread I love setup spec, and that turned out well here.

I have to give town props for a well earned win, but also to ika for at least making it interesting and not a town sweep.

[Fro99er]

But even town said it was too town sided so there is that

I should say, not Alan, but at least one player told me this.

Either way, doesn't matter. I think gAme dynamics influenced the win more than balance of the setup, although I'm always happy to hear feedback on the setup so I can make better ones for the future

[Fro99er]

Also big thanks to Quadz for stepping in when I got super busy with RL stuff and helping me be a better mod in general.

Any feedback would be appreciated (via PM) because I plan on modding more and would like to be good at it. I hope to see a few of you in future games!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thanks for modding Fro99er! Really good effort considering it's your first time as well!

WP town, good game. Singer on fire again.

[Shiro]

Also big thanks to Quadz for stepping in when I got super busy with RL stuff and helping me be a better mod in general.

Any feedback would be appreciated (via PM) because I plan on modding more and would like to be good at it. I hope to see a few of you in future games!

Pre-in for the game in teh future : D

[zakk]

I'm totally in for Frog Mafia 2!

Also, was there ever a scum thread released? I'd like to have it .... for science

[Fro99er]

Will release scum PT after Ivhear from Maxwell. Don't think it will be a problem.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Good job, town!

I'm not sure if the setup is balanced or not, but I do know that the reason Shiro and I were lynched in the first two days had nothing to do with that, and town earned their win.