Mini 2059: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Over]

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Brig's case on Ank feels like an attempt to voice a gut read on Ank. I'm gonna be honest I haven't read Ank super close, but I definitely see where Brig is coming, and I don't really like the arguments made against her by Reck, at least.

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i kinda think ank is town now actually
she comes off a lot better than brigitte does in both of their recent exchanges

Explain. I'd argue she comes off more controlled, but pretty sure that's more scummy than townie, IMO.

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I can untunnel myself just fine Brigitte

does it help to mention that I'm prone to deathtunnels

huh.

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Reck is gaining town points with me, cuz I follow his thought process even though I disagree with it.

Ank/urap looks like good cop bad cop. quickly doubting my townread on urap atm

VOTE: brigitte

because brigitte thinks im scumreading her, she immediately discredits me by saying im not reading
skitter points out that i hadnt been scumreading her, brigitte admits being wrong (she was in my scum/lurker pool 20 pages ago), then doubles down on discrediting me even after i open up a dialogue about her opinion of me not reading the game

@mod requesting prod/replacement on tictac

This is pretty NAI for me

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VOTE: brigitte

Yeah, explain pls.

I don't think 'has a handle on state of game' is same as 'knowing everything that has happened in the game'. So you can show that he has been following the game as of late, which I think isn't completely inaccurate. But I am pretty tired of his constant missing things in this game, and he has been doing it a lot. He misses context. He skims incessantly. I am just tired of it.

okay, examples

VOTE: brigitte

Cuz this helped the problem.

VOTE: Brigitte

How was rereading?

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Not really interested in the Brigitte votes right now.

As far as I'm following, Brigitte's argument is that Ank's scumread of her feels like OMGUS and completely manufactured because it's just the same thing Brigitte said back at her.

The collective argument against Brigitte is that Reck and Ank think Brigitte's argument is dumb and disagree with it,
urap thinks Brig won't give examples of her argument (and wants to lynch her for it?)
skitter... is voting for Brigitte.
OH! and this is actually legit: Reck thinks Brig is trying to keep him from playing the game by being openly antagonistic. I could see this coming from scum, at least slightly, but coming from a large family w/ plenty of younger brothers, it definitely looks like Ank is the antagonist here.

To sum it up:

Ank looks like she played the role of the little brother, poking and prodding the older sibling just enough to get Brig all riled up, and then ran to mom (Reck) and said "older sibling touched me." This looks like it was pretty intentional to me, and I don't like it.
Urap looked kinda like he was trying to help ank bait brig in, too.

No clue what on earth skitter is doing on that wagon.
Reck looks kinda out of the loop, so I'm going to call him town.

I'm really rather interested in a Nim lynch over anything else right now, but if it's going to be Ank or Brig, I think I'd rather it be Ank.

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How's this gamesolve:

Urap pushes NMSA out of the gate, Ank plays distancing game, casting shade on urap and defending nmsa (before NMSA did anything really worth defending) all while Nimueh wasn't here. Nimueh wouldn't jump on NMSA wagon, remember?

Urap flips his read entirely on NMSA (looking for hard towncred, I'd assume? This part is the weird part of the solve) and disassembles the lynch. maybe this has something to do with reck pushing Lynch All Lurkers? Not sure. Ank takes towncred for taking the wagon off NMSA and defending him the whole time and then Nimueh gets to game thread and tries to sap up some towncred in the process.

I don't know, it feels like a bit of a reach, but I think I could see it.

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i kinda think ank is town now actually
she comes off a lot better than brigitte does in both of their recent exchanges

Explain. I'd argue she comes off more controlled, but pretty sure that's more scummy than townie, IMO.

What about the

content

of Ankamius’ posts? I think she is demonstrating a townie thought process .

*crickets*

You haven't read the first page of the game thread and you have no examples of where you think Ank's posts show a townie thought process displayed here, you haven't answered my arguments, you've been openly hostile towards me, and multiple times you've told me you're planning on ignoring me, and yet somehow it's important to you to defend Ank's towncred? Interesting.

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@Nimueh: How do you have posts of Ank's you agree with when you haven't even read the first page of the game?

@Brig: yeah, I think you pretty much just rehashed a lot of the thoughts I was having when going through your exchange. I really don't see a townie side to the manufactured interaction Ank had with you at all and urap and skitter both look significantly worse for their parts in the process. I'm ok with an ank or nimueh lynch at this point, I think. I think I want to look more closely at urap and skitter before I make definite reads on them, I feel weird because I was pretty sure of urap as town earlier but I don't really see much town to his play here, either.

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It concerns me that she serms to be sr and shading her for having a different opinion.

Theres a pattern here....

I mean yeah, almost all of Nim's posts reek of falsity.

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So the things that pinged me about urap are the fact that he seemed to share in controlled antagonism with Ank, and this post specifically:

I don't think 'has a handle on state of game' is same as 'knowing everything that has happened in the game'. So you can show that he has been following the game as of late, which I think isn't completely inaccurate. But I am pretty tired of his constant missing things in this game, and he has been doing it a lot. He misses context. He skims incessantly. I am just tired of it.

okay, examples

VOTE: brigitte

He was the person to put the second vote on when I voted for pressure on Chara (cuz he said I needed it to actually apply pressure) so he should know that putting a vote on and saying it's for applying pressure makes the vote not matter. the fact that it's still there as you shoot closer to L-1 really pings me.

I just realized it's way later than I intended on staying up, though, so I'll look at this more tomorrow.

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and this is what pinged me on skitter:

i don't know if it's her being reasonable; it's more posts like 1281

That's a scummy post when she claims she had a scumread on me and wants to de-escalate the situation. I don't see how she knows even though she is currently winning the support of people how this won't blow up in her face. So if she gets me to flip my read on her, she wins more. And she still plays the "reasonable" person card up for more points.

I'm still not entirely convinced this was s deathtunnel yet

Although I will note that my main issue with this being a scum act is that I don't think she wouldn't have realized by now that this isn't winnable for her and backed off

these two posts from ank kinda vibe for me tho as a real-time thought process; don't really see it as being scummy tbh in the way you described. like you said, she's winning the argumnet, not sure why she wants to de-escalate here as scum

does ank not look manipulative and controlled to you?

these two posts from ank kinda vibe for me tho as a real-time thought process; don't really see it as being scummy tbh in the way you described. like you said, she's winning the argumnet, not sure why she wants to de-escalate here as scum

Because as I said, she wins more points in her favor by doing so which is doing with you. You might think its real, but I don't its real. I haven't found a lot of her stances and posts genuine here.

or she coudl just like keep pushing you to get you mislynched? like she actually unvoted you; i think that's counterproductive here if she's scum

what do you think about the fact that ank put her vote back on?

VOTE: brigitte

don't like the naked vote at all, please explain. it feels like a p sharp twist from your previous posts which seem to be attempting at reasoning with brigitte, and not building towards a scum read on her

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I don't understand how this is at all relevant to my point that I'm more concerned with HOW people get their reads on me than what their reads are.

You can say all you want about my self meta this game, but I've been using it to try to dismantle townreads as well as scumreads this game.

Most of the playerlist is pretty unfamiliar with how I play and this very often results in people reading me for bizarre reasons. I like to nip the very incorrect ones in the bud because people using more correct metrics to read me means that it's a lot less likely for people to randomly switch to a scumread of me out of nowhere when I need to get a specific lynch just because I "feel like I have an agenda" or other such nonsense.

I play town like most people do scum
And I play scum like most people do town

And my playstyle completely revolves around having enough influence when I really need it to create a decisive victory, so I need to be damn sure I can get people to townread me for the right reasons or I'll have a much harder time doing that when I need to.

If this works for you and stops you from getting mislynched, fine.
It doesn't help me at all, and I would view skeptically other players who take it with more than a grain of salt. It is so easy to poorly communicate your playstyle or misinterpret someone else's meaning with it. In addition to this, we have to trust that you're not lying, intentionally trying to skew our views, going to use selection bias (where you talk about a specific game that is actually an outlier), and self-aware enough to actually understand how you play. The fact that you've been dismantling both (as you say) is NAI at best.

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The big glaring flaw is that it makes no sense to push a scum partner like I was when they are already in a good spot. If I wanted towncred from distancing, it makes a lot more sense to push on Nimueh when the "KILL ALL LURKERS" mentality was at its highest, and rely on how the gamestate formed to allow that wagon to dissipate naturally later on.

Or... I don't really need to distance in the first place, I just need to be townread enough to make it far enough in the game where I can eliminate everybody who is likely to catch me and then coast to endgame. That's an even simpler way to play scum in this game since I'd already have the advantage of having so many people unfamiliar with how I play in this game.

Both of the actions here help you perform your purpose, neither is counter-productive here. This part of it isn't a reach at all.

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You know I'm reaching out to town-you and giving scum-you an out, right?

If we're talking players who always take the optimal path (which it would be even debatable that distancing Nimueh is the optimal path in that scenario), can we agree that the optimal path for Brig here, as scum trying to avoid a lynch, is to drop it and come back like you're pretending to let her do here?

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Fine, then let's start with this.

What do you think of Enters case on me.

Enter hasn't even begun to build a case on you, but don't worry, it's coming.

And I'll do my best this time to use words that aren't easy to be misunderstood or twisted like you've done.

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i'm kinda skimming nimueh's posts and gun-to-head i think she's kinda scummy but i don't know if that's because i'm carrying a lot of animus from how she behaved in the last game i played with her; i would not have joined this game if i had known who her main was

i'm kinda like actively not trying to engage her so i'm trying to decide if i should just replace out here because trying to not sort her is obviously counterproductive

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Is she regularly this bad? I already had one headache trying to deal with her, I assumed she was just having a bad day. If this is consistent I don't know that I can really handle it.

i kinda think ank is town now actually
she comes off a lot better than brigitte does in both of their recent exchanges

Explain. I'd argue she comes off more controlled, but pretty sure that's more scummy than townie, IMO.

i don't know - it kinda felt like she was approaching her convos with brigitte with a goal (first convo refuting brigitte's scumread, seconc convo getting another opinion on brigitte and then trying to gague if scum!brigitte would back down under pressure), whereas brgitte felt a lot more like she was flailing when ank pushed her and like she didn't know how to respond ank; it felt less like she was approaching the exchange with a consistent thought process that guided her posts/pushes/responses, but rather that she just said the first thing that popped into her head when she was met with resistance by me/urap2/ank/reck - discrediting reck by saying he wasn't reading the game.

like the convo last night wrt ank and then reck: she started off with objecting to ank asking reck how he was reading brigitte/brigitte's case on reck because reck had been scumreading her all game so he's obviously biased. once i pointed out that wasn't true (ie his scumread on her had developed in the last 20 pages or so), and that scumreading someone dones't mean they can't objectively look at a post, brigitte's posting shifted to discrediting reck in general on the basis that he isn't reading the game, which is kinda obviously not true. and i kinda disliked that she was using that as an excuse to not engage with reck at all; it kinda felt like that once reck started siding with ank her next goal was to try to discredit him - like she went from objecting to ank asking reck how he was reading brigitte to discrediting reck and i don't follow that as a townie thought process really, but it kinda makes sense to me as a response by scum to getting pushed and getting backed into a corner

i do think that ank (in middle of that convo with brigitte) saying that she thought scum!brigitte would have dropped the push and then unvoting was townie because i think that scum!her would continue pushing brigitte there while she had momentum to try to score a mislynch; a couple of ank's posts at that juncture seem like she was rethinking her brigitte read in real-time, in response to brigitte's reaction to her

idk i hope i explained that well enough
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Alright, this is a pretty different view from the one I had last night, and I think I understand a bit better where you're coming from now, regardless of my disagreement.

Just to get this straight, you're saying you think it looked like Ank was legitimately considering her read on Brig by unvoting and offering Brig a way out on multiple occasions, and Brig looked like scum for just responding with whatever emotion happened to be going through her at the moment, right?

Alright. I can see this, but I disagree, so I'll respond with a series of questions:

1. You're scum, and you want to push a mislynch, do you want to push it through hard and look like you're tunneled in, confbiased and emotional, or would you rather look calm, controlled, and regularly offer your victim a way out?
2. You're town, you run into an argument that you can't handle at the moment, do you tell the person you're arguing with to leave, or do you just leave the thread yourself until things have cooled down?

Really not sure what you mean by Ank reconsidering her read in real time, but I'll assume you're talking about these?

Spoiler:

You know I'm reaching out to town-you and giving scum-you an out, right?

UNVOTE: Brigitte

I might read stuff tomorrow idk yet

I'd argue that barely reads as reconsidering read and more like damage control, because when you get in a 1v1, player respect for your case goes down and people are a lot less likely to get lynched, like urap2 pointed out yesterday. This argument is reinforced by these posts:

Spoiler:

VOTE: Brigitte

Good talk

Time for attempt #2

They both imply that she's just trying again and again to get Brig lynched, not trying to sort her.

The other thing that makes it pretty clear to me that Ank isn't REALLY trying to sort Brig is this post:

What do you think of Brigittes case reck

Which, by itself, looks like an innocent attempt to fix your read on a player, except she chose Reck (who had already been scumreading Brig), and when putting that in context with the last two posts I linked, makes it look like she's just trying to get people to join the lynch with her, especially when she leaves once it picks up momentum. A great thing you can do is scum is to ever so slightly doubt or oppose the wagon picking up momentum so that you get the towncred for opposing/doubting the lynch even if you're on the wagon when it goes through.

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The collective argument against Brigitte is that Reck and Ank think Brigitte's argument is dumb and disagree with it,

Incorrect. The crux of my argument has always been her actions around the fake hammer and how she's approached a scumread of me.

The only reason it comes off that her case is the main point is because it was directly relevant at that time.

Sorry, I must have missed that. Could you link or restate your case for me, then?

Also what do you think of the other players voting you last night? How many of them do you think read and understood that that was the case against Brig?

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Do you genuinely think I felt threatened by her?

She hasn't successfully spearheaded a push on me so far, a lot of the support she had on me had either evaporated or greatly diminished by then, and her level of towncred isn't enough to charisma her way towards lynching me in the first place.

What exactly am I supposed to be afraid of enough to OMGUS?

I don't think it matters.
First and foremost you should know that you will slip up as scum. And someone who's been sitting on your wagon trying to push your lynch the whole game will get a foothold. All it takes is one wrong move and then you, like Brig, could have a giant wagon of people on you.

Regardless, fear isn't the prime motivating factor. It's much easier to play scum when everyone is townreading you, doesn't it make sense to push mislynches on people that you have experience with being stubborn, that you don't think you can convince to townread you over people who don't particularly care either way or people who do townread you?

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Skitter I wanna talk cuz I really don't agree with your Ank townread right now. Are you impressed that she can spam the thread by talking about herself, is that it?

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Do you genuinely think I felt threatened by her?

She hasn't successfully spearheaded a push on me so far, a lot of the support she had on me had either evaporated or greatly diminished by then, and her level of towncred isn't enough to charisma her way towards lynching me in the first place.

What exactly am I supposed to be afraid of enough to OMGUS?

I don't think it matters.
First and foremost you should know that you will slip up as scum. And someone who's been sitting on your wagon trying to push your lynch the whole game will get a foothold. All it takes is one wrong move and then you, like Brig, could have a giant wagon of people on you.

Regardless, fear isn't the prime motivating factor. It's much easier to play scum when everyone is townreading you, doesn't it make sense to push mislynches on people that you have experience with being stubborn, that you don't think you can convince to townread you over people who don't particularly care either way or people who do townread you?

Well... yeah? You

have

to play towards a scum win condition at some point to win as scum, it's impossible otherwise.

I also am quite aware that scumreads are not threats all by themselves simply because they're scumreads. Having myself put in the nullscum-null category actually benefits me as scum because that means I can afford to not be correct or at least try to townlead like a lot of people would expect me to when I'm obvtown

Townreads are a lot more trouble than they're worth unless there's already a townblock that you've managed to infiltrate. So yes, fear is the motivating factor because I'm most afraid of appearing too town or too scum as scum, the null area just gives me a lot more opportunities to get what I want done.

(that's how I view town too btw, unless I specifically need to be locktowned)

How is pushing mislynches on people who want you dead NOT playing towards scum agenda?

If fear is what motivates you here, that's fine. But there are other motivating factors throughout mafia that would give you PLENTY REASON to push a mislynch on Brig here.

feel free to write that off as self meta instead of referring to it as my overall scumplay philosophy

Quote me saying that one of your posts is self-meta when it isn't.
Quote me as twisting your words in this way.

Otherwise drop the crap.

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That is definitely scumplay philosophy

btw if you made more posts about playing philosophy. Wouldn't even critize you for it. Love play philosophy discussions.

the constant self meta is cringe worthy to me though.

This. Philosophy is fun, helps progress the game (sometimes, when done in moderation and when taken in context with the game) and interactive. The other players can try and decipher what you mean, and then read you based on whether or not you seem to be trying to push an agenda with a skewed philosophy.

Self-meta is so useless that "useless" doesn't do it justice. It's not interactive, it spams the thread, and it makes players more likely to skim over your posts and miss something that would significantly help advance a read on you.

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good god could you miss the mark harder if you tried

people are on brigitte because brig is refusing to engage w/ me and instead is just antagonizing me and going "reck isnt reading the game so idc what he says"
and then people are asking brig why she thinks that about me and she's refusing to answer them or give examples

First of all, that's what I said:

Reck thinks Brig is trying to keep him from playing the game by being openly antagonistic.

Second:
"sees player getting frustrated"
"tries to engage player getting frustrated"
"player redirects frustration at person trying to engage"
"confused at why you're being targetted with frustration"

This is the argument you believe in?

Recommend you re-examine your argument or try and re-engage Brigitte.

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How is pushing mislynches on people who want you dead NOT playing towards scum agenda?

Only if my goal is to get this entire 1v1 written off as a TvT deathtunnel, in which case I'd be more than happy to embrace it and use it to derail the entire game away from focusing on either of us.

Having someone who scumreads me but has no credibility left isn't a threat, and that's a relatively easy way to get people to not want to focus on my slot anymore for the foreseeable future, and there's enough potential here to drag this out ad infinitum without the debate actually going anywhere.

The only real threats are if people get fed up and decide to lynch both of us anyway, which wastes a lot of town's time that they can use actually getting information from lynches, or if the lynch gets sidelined into a buddy of mine that is just coasting by otherwise.

I'm not seeing much disadvantage with this plan?

You see a disadvantage to the plan of pushing a mislynch on a player that's scumreading you?

What is Occam's Razor?

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my vote is staying parked on brigitte like until she's dead k bye

"I refuse to engage with a player unless she is already prematurely frustrated and emotional, and making further attempts later on is out of the question. I will now sit on her wagon until she is dead. Do not bother engaging with me further."

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@post 1488

Ank. Are you telling me that your posting style (and the posting style of the players around you) never changes based on mood, rl circumstances, game circumstances, and a million other factors that you cannot account for? Is this really your reason for scumreading Brig? Are you saying you never talk to different people with different levels of hostility depending on how they had been treating you?
That case is a joke. I've seen entire play styles change from players being lurky, controlled, and quiet to interactive and pushy between games, not to mention that Brig already proved she could flip a switch earlier in the game when she went from fluffposting to realposting in RVS (and multiple other times throughout the game, iirc)

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my vote is staying parked on brigitte like until she's dead k bye

"I refuse to engage with a player unless she is already prematurely frustrated and emotional, and making further attempts later on is out of the question. I will now sit on her wagon until she is dead. Do not bother engaging with me further."

excuse me?

literally what fucking game are you reading jesus goddamn christ

at what point was brigitte emotional? was she frustrated/emotional all because i disagreed with her case on ank? bc if so, maybe mafia's not the game for her. and if not, then she had EVERY opportunity not to discredit me

you're putting the entire burden on me and giving brigitte a pass

what the fuck

She was frustrated when you tried to engage her.

I'm asking you to try to re-engage her right now instead of deciding you'll deathtunnel her for the rest of the game based on a single passing experience.

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Ank acted like a manipulative conniving person last night. I don't know about you but I have never come out of engagements with manipulative people happy and ready to discuss with whoever is around what's going on in the world.

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Whatever. I'm not condoning Brig being hostile. I'm just saying it's pretty NAI. I'm not going to beg you two to work together. I guess I just expected more. :/

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Yes, I become accountable for not dying later in the game and for having to either keep up the town leader persona or to find a way to 'apathy out' of that role.

This way I don't have to do any of that lol

P sure this is nightless as of RN, and "not dying" is a pretty silly excuse to lynch a town member.

No deadlines mafia we kept Nancy alive even though she was strong town because she was pocketed by the entire scum team.

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Ank acted like a manipulative conniving person last night. I don't know about you but I have never come out of engagements with manipulative people happy and ready to discuss with whoever is around what's going on in the world.

think what you want

Are you telling me you went into that engagement NOT wanting to push a Brigitte lynch?

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Ank acted like a manipulative conniving person last night. I don't know about you but I have never come out of engagements with manipulative people happy and ready to discuss with whoever is around what's going on in the world.

think what you want

Are you telling me you went into that engagement NOT wanting to push a Brigitte lynch?

I'm saying I don't really want to discuss it anymore, I'm pretty certain it's going to go just as nowhere as it has so far.

Please, your answer will help me read you, and then I'll go do something else, clear my head, and come back to the game thread with your answer in mind.

Did you intend on getting Brigitte lynched when you initially engaged her last night?

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If I offended you by saying you played like a manipulative, conniving person, I apologize. That was kinda mean. If it means anything to you, most of my friends are manipulative, conniving people too. Also me, now, I guess.

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Please, your answer will help me read you, and then I'll go do something else, clear my head, and come back to the game thread with your answer in mind.

Did you intend on getting Brigitte lynched when you initially engaged her last night?

yes

Thank you. I'll be back in a bit.

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Also me, now, I guess.

scum slip

lol. I was talking RL

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I think maybe you should take your own advice.

I did come back and try to re-engage you, and you refused me a second time.

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But calling me a “narcissist” isn’t?

If I condemn a person for a crime harshly, but the person apologizes and admits they perhaps did not mean to inflict the harm that they did, I feel bad and recognize I might have judged too quickly and too harshly.

If I condemn a person for a crime harshly, and the person goes out and commits a second crime, more heinous than the first, I recognize that perhaps my punishment should have been swifter and more forceful.

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You are purposely going out of your way to antagonize him here.

I'm trying to get him to recognize that his stance is ignorant of the context with which he engaged Brigitte last night by attempting at assisting him in showing him how I view his stance.

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You just answered your own question. It wasn’t at all cool what you said and yes, you absolutely do owe me an apology for that.

I don’t engage with anyone who uses mean-spirited attacks on me.

Lol, you attacked me first.

*punches me
*me punches back

I don't talk to people who punch me

Your self-awareness is 0

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uh remember what happened in the last game i played with you ??????????

You realize my hands are kind of tied in answering this kind of question?

I will just say that I want to be a player who is considered a valuable asset to town and not one who has a negative effect on the gamestate.

I’d be more than happy to elaborate on this via PM post-game, if you like?

You're working pretty hard to be counter-productive to that mission statement.

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i'll support whatever ends day fastest

Well that would be me right now.

Also hello, welcome to the game. How are you?

hi im ok-ish have i played with you before?

Yes

Have I played with you before?
I or Extrapolated Eagle?

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Do I know you, Brig?

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I've agonized over this for a while, and usually I'm really against replacing out, but I think it's just bad for me to try to play with a person that refuses to engage with me whatsoever.

@mod please replace me

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I apologize. I would feel much worse for asking to replace out and then saying "nevermind," than I would just replacing out.

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I'm not going to say "I'm replacing out" and then not replace out.

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Sorry guys

I really wanted to be town

but NSG wouldn't let me

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So I tried to be town anyways....

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This is by far the best scum game I've ever had

the people who were scum reading succinct off of my game made my day

I think it's really funny that a policy lynch almost caught two of my buddies

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I still don't regret my self hammer.

I almost regret replacing out.
If URAP had stayed I might have stayed through as well, but when he left it compromised game integrity and I really didn't want to deal with Nimueh.

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It was super fun playing with you, Brigitte.

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That Tohru replace in really swung the game though. Good job Tohru.

+1

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@NSG will you tell me what those names meant

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Ah!
I was close with one of my early guesses

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My favorite part was when people were like
"enter couldn't have masterminded this"

viewtopic.php?p=10758652#p10758652

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@ank:

viewtopic.php?p=10772618#p10772618

viewtopic.php?p=10772847#p10772847

I'm never gonna roll scum again

that was fun but also terrible

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I get that shit every game enter

This game was just the one that broke the camels back because I knew that most of the blowback had to be town

I had a lot of shitty mistakes I had no business making this game but the Flubber push really wasn't one, my confidence was justified

yeah but..

idk..

especially when i was being mean about the self-meta and stuff...

lol

i feel like the fact that you get it every game doesn't justify me doing it in this one.

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which part of it?

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i do feel like the more time you spent talking about yourself the less you got to focus on reads but i'm not sure

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The flip off of NMSA really threw me off. That was absolutely terrible. I think my activity level dropped to new lows. It's funny because between Ank's strategy and URAPs read flip I could swear it was planned

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Hang on are we arguing about the balance of a game where in order to win as scum you had to have a perfect game?

Lol?

A perfect scum game that is guaranteed to go to 4 days if you're playing perfectly.

In addition to having to have someone last to day 4, town also gets a guaranteed scum flip by day 3 and on day 4 there is one scum and both of their buddies have flipped, so associatives must have been maintained throughout the game to keep said player from being lynched.

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You'll have to forgive me if I snarfed when I read someone saying the game was town sided.

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You'll have to forgive me if I snarfed when I read someone saying the game was scum sided.

Ebwop

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It was fun playing with you skitter, while I was here, while things went down. You were pretty intimidating because you obvtown pretty hard.

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I honestly think your play would have worked fine, Ank, if there hadn't been other things going on in the thread at the time.

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Did we deserve that win? I doubt it.

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secret agent

I see you trying to squeeze that last little bit of flavor in

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scum don't have to have a perfect game in order to win. that'd be the original extradition mafia. the intent of this setup was to allow a little leeway there.

i'll say again what i said in the dead thread and what schadd said to me in the setup thread – normal games with no scum lynches day one or day two lead to town wins only 15% of the time. that's

normal games

, which people love to complain about having townsided setups so much. in this game, when that happens we reward scum. the only benefit to town when that happens in this setup is the information of a scum flip – that's certainly not useless, but i don't think it makes the setup townsided.

i think that this game, like a lot of games that i run (and perhaps moreso than most normal setups) tends to reward pro-active scumplay and punish the "sit back and let town explode" type of scumplay.

yes, associatives were something scum had to keep in mind. they had an entire game's worth of preparation to do so.


what's more, it seems to me that some people are implying that town would have lost had it not been for the townsided setup. to that i would say that, looking at the larger picture town did fairly well this game. i consider it pretty much a fluke that flubbernugget wasn't lynched when he was. i don't think almost anyone was townreading succinct – all it took was tohru pointing that out and calling for votes there to make the wagon happen.

I agree with most of what you're saying here, FTR. I don't know much about the numbers, I haven't looked at any of them myself, but I trust you if you say it's pretty even both ways. I'll say that it was super intimidating to look at this setup as a player who has only survived more than one day as scum as a fluke and who mostly plays VT and leave it at that. The game was fun, I liked the setup, and with an ever so slightly different player list, I'd play it again.

I do really like that we were encouraged to actively play, though.

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do scum deserve to win a game where they're not really all that townread just because there's a lot of town infighting? i don't know.

Well, apparently that's what happened in Boonskiies' game and scumteam there got nominated.

Really? Ew. Link me.

secret agent

I see you trying to squeeze that last little bit of flavor in

it sounds a bit better than using "mafia" or "scum" singularly, i think

TBF both of those words sound weird/bad singular