Mini Theme 2176: Jake's Grand Idea (Post Game)

[TemporalLich]

Galron's on the playerlist but not the alive list...

strange, hopefully it's just mod error

[TemporalLich]

VOTE: galron

we can fix it so that that information is accurate

VOTE: Tayl0r Swift

quoting and voting because the quoted post is openwolfing in RVS

[TemporalLich]

nice to meet you too, closet wolf

you literally put a third vote on someone solely because you want him dead.

I'm not sure how that isn't openwolfing, except maybe "it's RVS therefore nothing matters and you can openwolf like the wendigo that roars their shopping list"

[TemporalLich]

this will be the first and only time i do this.

and now you're hiding behind the meme defense.

I've been told that using the meme defense against openwolfing is scummy as you're trying to make your scumminess look like meming

[TemporalLich]

I don't need a first time. I don't even need a zeroth time or even a negative first time. I am the master of time, needing time is beyond me.

[TemporalLich]

Tayl0r Swift is presumably trying to give me a chance but 24 is simultaneously a meme defense and attacking the player

therefore I'm refusing the offer

[TemporalLich]

if it's not an outright ad hominem, it's a meme defense in the form of an attack

Implying I have no sense of humor possibly could mean 17 is a meme or joke or shitpost. Shitposting isn't an excuse for outright openwolfing from where I've heard.

A meme defense is when you point out one of your posts is just a joke or meme to avoid being called out on it.

[TemporalLich]

tl;dr I think TS is using "you have a bad sense of humor" (directed at me, which actually does offend me jsyk) to defend 17 as nothing more than just a meme

anyway I townread you PP, your early game initiative shows you might be the town leader. And hopefully to the Ephemeron you aren't a cultist. Because cultists can't hide even if the town goes dark.

[TemporalLich]

I remember you from unstable mafia DT... you were very scumread by me despite being town, you efforted but looked scummy apparently

[TemporalLich]

VOTE: temporal lich
burn the lich!

this is my n0

um... do you have a N0 guilty on me or something?

[TemporalLich]

no n0 (at least where i come from) are only green checks. and i was talking about plusjoyed not you

this is a Grand Idea mutation, I am pretty sure there are roles that get N0 guilties.

I have no reason to suspect you or plusjoyed of being an impostor or cultist, so I currently TR you

[TemporalLich]

from my experience running up people in RVS was considered scummy but eh... thanks for the explanation I feel it comes from a town thoughtstream (but not to the point I'm changing vote, you're still my bottom read)

[TemporalLich]

from my experience running up people in RVS was considered scummy but eh... thanks for the explanation I feel it comes from a town thoughtstream (but not to the point I'm changing vote, you're still my bottom read)

this is a weird combination of backing off and not backing off. if the only reason you scumread me was that post, and now you think that post comes from a town mindset, then why do you still scumread me?

... because you're the only one below nullread...

You're the only one who's done something scummy so my vote still reflects that, I'm just saying I think you might be town.

And we're probably out of RVS anyway.

[TemporalLich]

no n0 (at least where i come from) are only green checks. and i was talking about plusjoyed not you

this is a Grand Idea mutation, I am pretty sure there are roles that get N0 guilties.

I have no reason to suspect you or plusjoyed of being an impostor or cultist, so I currently TR you

so you TR everyone until someone does something weird? shouldn't that be a null read?

yes... but your claim says you are town so that's why I TR you

[TemporalLich]

And we're probably out of RVS anyway.

and yet you still doubt the power of my vote. its friggin page 2! some people havent even posted

VOTE: temporallitch

and you expect me to vote someone who hasn't posted yet?!

that's not how things work outside RVS

[TemporalLich]

it's not like I can use "lurking" as an attack, we're still in the first few hours in the game

[TemporalLich]

im just saying that the purpose of running someone up early is so you have wagon dynamics to analyze and it gets the game moving. it worked.\

did you really take the n0 check seriously?

I'm assuming the n0 check is an actual claim unless proven otherwise... besides fakeclaiming innos is super scummy and it's a good policy to assume good faith

[TemporalLich]

welcome, we may or may not be out of RVS but I seem to be the leading wagon

[TemporalLich]

eh frick it I'm dropping the ball

UNVOTE:

[TemporalLich]

VOTE: temporallich for unvoting during RVS

VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

It's not RVS anymore most people have serious votes now

[TemporalLich]

I'm still only at 3 out of 7 votes

[TemporalLich]

from my pov I'm probably flailing, so idk

[TemporalLich]

VOTE: temporal lich
burn the lich!

this is my n0

um... do you have a N0 guilty on me or something?

Why would you think he has a guilty on you?

I'm not sure someone claims an inno on D1, so I assumed it was a guilty check

[TemporalLich]

I'll softclaim my role at risk of further being ran up...

My role is an investigative role... that comes at great cost to the town so therefore I should not use it unclaimed.

[TemporalLich]

I'll fullclaim at E-2

[TemporalLich]

I have 4 votes on me right?

[TemporalLich]

I rechecked the thread and I'm apparently at E-2...

guess it's time for my fullclaim

Town Dirty Inquisitor - may choose to learn the name of a random cultist, but a random townie (other than me) will unavoidably die if this ability is used. You may learn the name of the same cultist twice.

pages that I submitted as picks - 277, 302, 360

[TemporalLich]

tl;dr I think TS is using "you have a bad sense of humor" (directed at me, which actually does offend me jsyk) to defend 17 as nothing more than just a meme

anyway I townread you PP, your early game initiative shows you might be the town leader.

And hopefully to the Ephemeron you aren't a cultist. Because cultists can't hide even if the town goes dark.

and here is my breadcrumb, with the actual breadcrumb

bolded

.

[TemporalLich]

if cults start with 1 member, then that can get rid of them entirely day 1 right?

Even if I did actually NK a random cultist, if that 1 member is a leader I'd still be unable to completely stop the cult from Cycle 1.

I'm an investigative role, I get the name of a random cultist if the town is willing to suffer an extra guaranteed NK

[TemporalLich]

What do you mean if you NK a cultist?

I'm saying even if my role were "NK a random cultist and random townie" a cult leader would still be able to recruit someone on N1.

I can't NK cultists as I'm Town-aligned and my role only allows random townies to die.

[TemporalLich]

does the existence of 1 role like a cultist killer mean there has to be a cultist or is it like great idea where it doesn't always mean there is cult

This is Grand Idea which is like Great Idea but with a lot more role cards and also is very insane and bastard. Expect anything and everything.

My role existing does not conform nor deny a cult existing.

[TemporalLich]

I intentionally revealed my role as I'm at E-2 and my role would be harmful to Town if I dared to use it unclaimed

[TemporalLich]

I still just don't like that TL jumped to "He has a guilty on me" rather than, if he thought there was a guilty result, then, a townie would have confirmed scum, there, right?

idk I thought DT was claiming a guilty on me but it turns out that I'm not guiltied (because of the plusjoyed) quote and that DT is insane enough to claim a N0 innocent result in D1.

It would be more justified if it were something like a BH check or Alignment Cop check than something like a Cop check, Psychologist check (which would guilty me), or Gunsmith check (which would guilty me).

[TemporalLich]

V/LA until Saturday due to weather concerns

[TemporalLich]

I intentionally revealed my role as I'm at E-2 and my role would be harmful to Town if I dared to use it unclaimed

mhmm it seems like the sort of role that should never be used and also that you should have softclaimed earlier.

I crumbed nearly instantly because I was planning to claim early. I only claimed this early in D1 because people think it's funny to run me up to E-2 in not RVS but they think it is RVS

[TemporalLich]

and I somehow missed a vote when softclaiming, I would have softclaimed at E-3

[TemporalLich]

pretty sure if you were town you'd be able to die if I acted during a night

[TemporalLich]

You're making me want to turn the town dark just so the cultists can't hide

[TemporalLich]

Anyways let's vote sam

Why?

[TemporalLich]

Why aren't we limming Temporal Lich? Negative utility role that he's threatening to use against us.

You sound like a cultist

[TemporalLich]

VOTE: Galron for being a cultist...

I am still town, but I want the cult and Impostors to never hide again.

[TemporalLich]

You talk as if you know for certain there is a cult. The only way to know that would for you to be a member wouldn't it?

I don't... but you really sound like you're in a cult

[TemporalLich]

You talk as if you know for certain there is a cult. The only way to know that would for you to be a member wouldn't it?

I don't... but you really sound like you're in a cult

Let's try this short questionnaire.

1. Have you sold all your stuff and given the proceeds away?

2. Do you now live on a compound?

3. Do you and your neighbors all have sex with the same person?

1. No, that would be foolish of me.

2. No, I live outside time entirely.

3. No, that's a good way to catch something.

[TemporalLich]

Lets bandwagon sam

Why? Are they a cultist?

[TemporalLich]

I assume there is nothing of interest in the first ten pages. Am I correct?

i was proven 100% town in those pages

you haven't claimed anything you are not mod confirmed town

[TemporalLich]

Great. I'm now confirmed town without the negative utility of being a lover.

I found something that sounds like you're trying to pass off anecdotal evidence as literally confirmed by the

moderator

to be town.

VOTE: Tayl0r Swift for provably fakeclaiming and therefore is 90% an Impostor

[TemporalLich]

I mean Albert would be confirmed town if PJ actually supported his claim, but confirmed town is not the same thing as mod confirmed town...

[TemporalLich]

do you even know what an anecdote is?

personal testimony, such as my claim which does not make me confirmed in any way

[TemporalLich]

I'm asking you to support your claim that you and Albert are confirmed by the

moderator

to be town.

I don't see anything that remotely appears to be like that in Jake's ISO

[TemporalLich]

@mod: I'm not too concerned about the weather anymore in the immediate future... was worried I might lose power so I've removed my V/LA tag

[TemporalLich]

Ok impostor

[TemporalLich]

Ok impostor

only scum would impeach my character in this vile and base manner.

I mean you're just saying "no u" at this point so idk, I mean Impostor as in the bad guys

[TemporalLich]

if you thought I was calling you the non among us type of impostor, I apologize for that and deserve to be voted out for the negative charisma that is now on me

[TemporalLich]

tayl0r is saying she is mod confirmed town but is not actually mod confirmed town

[TemporalLich]

I've reread the thread, and came to this conclusion...

PJ is mech 3P nobody should care about as it doesn't affect the game in any meaningful way through Albert...

Albert is weakly confirmed town via Grand Idea shenanigans and role claim (about as confirmed as having a Grand Idea role that exists in only one alignment is... things can cause you to have a Grand Idea role with a "wrong" alignment such as rerolls that force a specific alignment). Note that this isn't the strongly confirmed town that a "Town" result from a known Alignment Cop or ISK pair will give, and is most definitely not

moderator

confirmed town.

Taylor is not confirmed, but PJ says he is in a PT with her and Albert.

Nothing the moderator has said could be construed to mean confirming anything, so saying you are mod confirmed is a provable lie.

Even if the moderator actually said taylor was town in the PT taylor is most definitely not mod confirmed fmpov.

[TemporalLich]

Two ISK's confirming each other is a strong confirmation, not a moderator confirmation

[TemporalLich]

That being said, Taylor somehow rolling ISK would mean she isn't intentionally lying

[TemporalLich]

ISK = Inner Sanctum Keeper, a role that basically acts like a supermason (think mason but replace "not mafia" with "town") (and is on a page I submitted)

[TemporalLich]

ManWithNoName doesn't seem very efforty, an ISO skim looks mostly like chaff

pedit: PJ hardclaimed survivor that can't die

[TemporalLich]

what do you claim temporal

I rechecked the thread and I'm apparently at E-2...

guess it's time for my fullclaim

Town Dirty Inquisitor - may choose to learn the name of a random cultist, but a random townie (other than me) will unavoidably die if this ability is used. You may learn the name of the same cultist twice.

pages that I submitted as picks - 277, 302, 360

I claimed town dirty inquisitor, an investigative role that gets the name of a random cultist but a townie will die if I use my ability.

[TemporalLich]

this is pretty on the nose. Green check = player is town

This is Grand Idea. Green check = innocent. I don't know the nature of DT's claim and I'd rather assume DT knows you aren't Mafia or Wolf than DT is lying.

Besides, I posted full solves in every spoiler so far.

Spoiler:

Full solves.

...suuure you did.

[TemporalLich]

VOTE: DoubtingThomas

DT possibly lying and TS outright lying doesn't change that DT is scummier than TS ignoring both lies

[TemporalLich]

And if TS didn't lie I'd actually read TS as nulltown

[TemporalLich]

With the ISK softclaim and no lie, TS is a town read from me

[TemporalLich]

can you at least claim the exact nature of your N0 check (e.g. cop, gunsmith, scumfinder, w/e) so you don't look like caught scum?

[TemporalLich]

so mafia/cult/3rd parties I think you should kill taylor they'll probably be a threat

wtf is this????

3p scumsiding obviously

[TemporalLich]

ok caught scum, you lie you scum

[TemporalLich]

you lied about having a n0 check

[TemporalLich]

I can't answer that question.

[TemporalLich]

you lied about having a n0 check

yes and why would a wolf do that? I would probably rescind it eventually, or if I die my rolecard which says I am not a cop would give no value to my n0 check.

what benefit do I get for lying as a wolf? you think I would give n0 to a town as a wolf? when there's a possible 3p? or you think I would give n0 to a wolf buddy?

You would give a n0 inno to your Impostor friend, then when asked to clarify the nature of your n0 check you instead try to vent right in front of me by claiming that you lied.

[TemporalLich]

i dont get why you can't answer it, but it doesn't make me a scum

I couldn't answer that question because that is a loaded question... designed to make me look scum no matter how I answer it

[TemporalLich]

so why is plusjoyed who is hypothetically my buddy call me out on it and vote me first? we aren't a team most of the times. we don't have to bus if she is actually my teammate. the only case is she is 3p and i am T or W independently and didn't know of her alignment

to disassociate, like any normal Impostor would do

[TemporalLich]

faking an n0 result is a terrible idea as Town as you instantly lose trust... so your "tactical misstep" argument just backfired

[TemporalLich]

so why does a wolf do it? why does a wolf go out of his way to try to attract needless attention and claim fake n0?

in a weird attempt to openwolf

[TemporalLich]

i mean like. if you think i am a wolf for lying in a role madness game that i have never played before about a mere n0, i can't stop you. but from where i come from leaving an n0 in any potential set up is considered a good play because it allows real cops to hide and leave real checks should they ever die.

but you do you

I have never heard that strategy before but I have heard "lim all liars"

[TemporalLich]

Faking checks is associated with being anti-Town, scum might fake guilties in a valiant attempt to mislim

[TemporalLich]

you faked an innocent though which is still something scum fakeclaiming investigative though.

And I could get a real check but we might have some high value townies that we can't afford to lose

[TemporalLich]

it's D1 I have no results yet

[TemporalLich]

I'm waiting for the next votecount before I post a lead rist

[TemporalLich]

look if I'm at E-2 i can't risk posting a lead rist that people think is wrong

[TemporalLich]

I know my role is low value, but still

[TemporalLich]

having no care whether you live or die is +scum pear tree or whatever it's called

[TemporalLich]

that is why I'm antispewing until I know I'm safe

[TemporalLich]

yes. temporal are you a wolf?

I am Town

[TemporalLich]

also you're the Impostor and you know it

[TemporalLich]

i dont know

well you keep trying to yank my chain when your questioning amounts to "are you the Impostor" and "who are your Impostor buddies"?

Not sure who would answer anything but "no" and "I can't answer that question"

[TemporalLich]

I can't answer that question.

[TemporalLich]

there's no benefit to me or the rest of the town for me to answer that... it's a loaded question and you're trying to paint me as the Impostor

[TemporalLich]

VOTE: temporal lich
burn the lich!

this is my n0

can you at least claim the exact nature of your N0 check (e.g. cop, gunsmith, scumfinder, w/e) so you don't look like caught scum?

fake claim

you lied about your n0 therefore you are sus

[TemporalLich]

hmm Temporal. Are you a Jester?

No, I'm Town

[TemporalLich]

how is samantha scum 267 looks like a townpost

[TemporalLich]

Why is TL still alive?

Everyone knows you can't kill time literally

[TemporalLich]

still waiting for a VC before I post my lead rist

[TemporalLich]

I know I'm not under pressure, so here's a lead rist for now:

TR

-

TL

-

NT

-

HN

-

NS

-

SL

-

SR

3P

[Town]

Albert B. Rampage

- Weakly confirmed via 183, ISO looks promising

ManWithNoName

- Actually does town things unlike the rest of the town.

Starbuck

- Few posts, but those posts are town mindset.

PenguinPower

- Seems very low effort but there is still a veil of effort towniness.

samantha97

- Towniest post is a claim ledger which isn't markedly towny or something that scum can't do. ISO is mostly just chaff.

Battle Mage

- Not posted yet, and neither has Sirius. The definition of

hard null

.

Lucky2u

- Has done nothing but indirectly bring light to some GIM shenanigans.

PlusJOYED

- Deathless survivor who has both townsided and scumsided.

Nono

- Has done literally nothing but vote Albert and say they want to hammer. Seems extremely lurky to me.

Galron

- You sound like a cultist, trying to be town but you hate my guts for my role claim.

Tayl0r Swift

- Fakeclaimed a n0 result which is super scummy (I don't care that it provides "iNvEsTiGaTiVe CoVeR", you don't fakeclaim investigative results and get away with it), otherwise

nulltown

. Alledgedly confirmed, but I'm not holding my breath unless Albert backs Tayl0r's confirmation (in 284) up.

DoubtingThomas

- Is hopelessly tunneled on me, but still willing to attack samantha because lul... that is what scum do

[Scum]

[TemporalLich]

Tayl0r Swift - Fakeclaimed a n0 result which is super scummy (I don't care that it provides "iNvEsTiGaTiVe CoVeR", you don't fakeclaim investigative results and get away with it), otherwise nulltown. Alledgedly confirmed, but I'm not holding my breath unless Albert backs Tayl0r's confirmation (in 284) up.

i just wanna state for the record that it wasnt me who faked the N0 result. i forget who that was, but i read it as a joke and NAI.

dangit factual error on my part (-towncred for me).

DT claimed the n0 in 37 and it is still a proven lie because PJ is a claimed 3P.

The new lead rist looks like this (with me as

scumlean

for stupidity):

Albert B. Rampage

- Weakly confirmed via 183, ISO looks promising

ManWithNoName

- Actually does town things unlike the rest of the town.

Starbuck

- Few posts, but those posts are town mindset.

Tayl0r Swift

- Allegedly confirmed, but I'm not holding my breath unless Albert backs Tayl0r's confirmation (in 284) up.

PenguinPower

- Seems very low effort but there is still a veil of effort towniness.

samantha97

- Towniest post is a claim ledger which isn't markedly towny or something that scum can't do. ISO is mostly just chaff.

Battle Mage

- Not posted yet, and neither has Sirius. The definition of

hard null

.

Lucky2u

- Has done nothing but indirectly bring light to some GIM shenanigans.

PlusJOYED

- Deathless survivor who has both townsided and scumsided.

Nono

- Has done literally nothing but vote Albert and say they want to hammer. Seems extremely lurky to me.

Galron

- You sound like a cultist, trying to be town but you hate my guts for my role claim.

DoubtingThomas

- Is hopelessly tunneled on me, but still willing to attack samantha because lul... that is what scum do. Also fakeclaimed a n0 result which is super scummy (I don't care that it provides "iNvEsTiGaTiVe CoVeR", you don't fakeclaim investigative results and get away with it)

[TemporalLich]

Albert B. Rampage - Weakly confirmed via 183

what! I don’t get the confirmation, at all actually

yeah you'll have to trust albert on that one but 185 is meant to back up his role claim.

I still see Albert is towny though.

[TemporalLich]

like Temporal's "Scum reads" in a ROLE MADNESS games are people who fake claimed n0? really

when it's literally a game you choose 3 pages full of roles and you get assigned anything? trying to solve people's alignment via claims on d1 is literally the dumbest shit i've ever heard

When you and Galron are the only person I'd scumread based on posting and SRing you for posts is not a good idea in my experience... you kinda have to look at mechanical stuff... and you potentially fakeclaiming an n0 check is the mechanical dirt I need for an actual push.

[TemporalLich]

Tayl0r Swift - Fakeclaimed a n0 result which is super scummy (I don't care that it provides "iNvEsTiGaTiVe CoVeR", you don't fakeclaim investigative results and get away with it), otherwise nulltown. Alledgedly confirmed, but I'm not holding my breath unless Albert backs Tayl0r's confirmation (in 284) up.

i just wanna state for the record that it wasnt me who faked the N0 result. i forget who that was, but i read it as a joke and NAI.

dangit factual error on my part (-towncred for me).

DT claimed the n0 in 37 and it is still a proven lie because PJ is a claimed 3P.

The new lead rist looks like this (with me as

scumlean

for stupidity):

Albert B. Rampage

- Weakly confirmed via 183, ISO looks promising

ManWithNoName

- Actually does town things unlike the rest of the town.

Starbuck

- Few posts, but those posts are town mindset.

Tayl0r Swift

- Allegedly confirmed, but I'm not holding my breath unless Albert backs Tayl0r's confirmation (in 284) up.

PenguinPower

- Seems very low effort but there is still a veil of effort towniness.

samantha97

- Towniest post is a claim ledger which isn't markedly towny or something that scum can't do. ISO is mostly just chaff.

Battle Mage

- Not posted yet, and neither has Sirius. The definition of

hard null

.

Lucky2u

- Has done nothing but indirectly bring light to some GIM shenanigans.

PlusJOYED

- Deathless survivor who has both townsided and scumsided.

Nono

- Has done literally nothing but vote Albert and say they want to hammer. Seems extremely lurky to me.

Galron

- You sound like a cultist, trying to be town but you hate my guts for my role claim.

DoubtingThomas

- Is hopelessly tunneled on me, but still willing to attack samantha because lul... that is what scum do. Also fakeclaimed a n0 result which is super scummy (I don't care that it provides "iNvEsTiGaTiVe CoVeR", you don't fakeclaim investigative results and get away with it)

this post is shit and i am shooting you

are you actually claiming vig over this? That seems like a terrible idea

[TemporalLich]

If you are actually a vig I question your premature claim and I assert that I am town and I don't think my ability is worth using

[TemporalLich]

Prodge post... I honestly don't get the push on samantha

[TemporalLich]

Prodge post... I honestly don't get the push on samantha

Don’t worry you’re probably scum with Sam.

Instead of a basic explanation you say I am associated with sam?

Do you really think Sam is openwolfing that bad?

[TemporalLich]

I don't have a push because I already pushed DT to the limit... if nobody thinks DT is scum for fakeclaiming results on PJ then there is nothing for me to help that without any new content from DT

[TemporalLich]

and I'm not a major wagon anymore so you might be scum with DT

[TemporalLich]

also ABR just wants to lim sam to lim sam... no real reason behind it as 418 is the best I saw... and that's a terrible reason to SR someone for thinking that gambits and fakeclaims harm the town

[TemporalLich]

a weak confirmation does not mean we treat ABR as a god who can do no scummy thing and everything ABR does is towny

[TemporalLich]

I'm actually willing to bet, if ABR flips Impostor you are an Impostor as well MB

[TemporalLich]

I'm actually willing to bet, if ABR flips Impostor you are an Impostor as well MB

Are you saying you have a guess of scum team of DT, ABR and DT?

Let's consolidate these ideas so we can read them.

I'm saying MathBlade is scum with either ABR or DT, and I'm 50% sure that's an exclusive or.

That being said, the most valuable info push is DT right now, as a green DT bodes poorly for ABR. If MB flips town then the whole associative V-shape falls apart.

pedit: you have to be trolling right? 183 and 185 is a confirmation of ABR's role (which is Sweetheart, not Weak), which in turn is a weak confirmation of ABR's alignment (it is definitely possible for Sweetheart to appear as non-town via alignment-forcing rerolls or other shenanigans). It would be preposterous to assume ABR is actually Weak, and such a thing can't be confirmed without ABR dying or a role cop existing.

[TemporalLich]

besides, assuming PJ is third-party ABR is confirmed to

NOT

be weak

[TemporalLich]

Correct.

It would be preposterous to assume ABR is weak.

That’s not what I am doing.

You're distorting my words into me saying a

provable lie

. (We know that ABR is definitely

NOT

weak because he targeted PJ who is a 3P. As in, ABR is strongly deconfirmed to be Weak) I'm saying ABR's alignment is weakly confirmed (as in we know that ABR is

probably

town, as opposed to definitely town). Grand Idea shenanigans (such as alignment forcing rerolls or "Grandest Idea" roles) could result in a non-town Sweetheart.

Yeah, misreps of this caliber are what scum do.

[post=MathBlade]MathBlade[/post]

[TemporalLich]

ebwop: wrong tag:

VOTE: MathBlade

[TemporalLich]

A Weak action would be a strong confirmation of towniness (on the target) if the Weak player is still alive... (I know Unassuming would fool a Weak role, but it's not as common as stuff that can split alignments)

However, an unproven claim is still just a claim, so a Weak investigative has a much easier time to get proven than a Weak visitor for example.

I'm not sure where I said a Weak check wouldn't be a confirmation, but a Weak check does confirm alignment

[TemporalLich]

a weak confirmation does not mean we treat ABR as a god who can do no scummy thing and everything ABR does is towny

VOTE: Temporal Lich

Weak by definition is a confirmation of ones alignment.

If someone weak visits someone not weak that means anything they do is of the same alignment.

That is how weak works.

Now why are you all of a sudden bringing up weak?

This is an imho scumslip of huge proportions.

Here you did.

That’s why I voted you and think you’re scum.

You are blatantly misrepping. I meant weak confirmation as in a "ABR is

probably

Town" confirmation, not a Weak (note the capital W) confirmation as in "ABR was targeted by a Weak role and the Weak role didn't die".

The latter is a strong confirmation, but even if ABR were mod confirmed that doesn't mean they can't do anything scummy

[TemporalLich]

You're just trying to distort my words into lies.

Nobody claimed Weak, nobody claimed n0 Role Cop either. Nobody is known to be Weak. Therefore Weak role confirmations don't exist yet.

[TemporalLich]

I already claimed Town you scum

I'm going to act N1 if I'm not lemoned today, I have mild doubts about ABR and he'd be the one convincing me to not act N1 (don't want to risk conf town dying).

[TemporalLich]

y'all this is a case of the few active players all pointing guns at each other, while more than half of the game is afk

I'm down for ignoring everyone here and picking someone who hasn't given us much or anything to work with if you are

good idea, hopefully people think you aren't scum

[TemporalLich]

why do you even want me or sam lemoned?

[TemporalLich]

also if you desperadoed me have fun being strawberried

[TemporalLich]

With how much you're distorting my words you should be on Fox News

[TemporalLich]

im a n0 rolecop and i discovered that TL is mafia.

did you confuse role cop with alignment cop or something?

If you were actually a role cop you'd know that I'm a Dirty Inquisitor.

Besides, I'm town so your guilty is fake besides it already not making sense

[TemporalLich]

is it bad I currently place samantha as

nulltown

? (mostly for 585)

[TemporalLich]

anyway I'm ready to jump the gun and say ABR is

townread

[TemporalLich]

yeah... though

townread

on my lead rist means someone is probtown

[TemporalLich]

is it bad I currently place samantha as

nulltown

? (mostly for 585)

It's not a great post, nor one that really spews alignment, so...

I mean I don't get the people saying "samantha is scum because ABR thinks samantha is scum and literally no other reason" but yeah... samantha feels a little towny and

nulltown

exists for weak townreads like "I think sam is more town than scum I guess".

[TemporalLich]

You implied your shift upwards was due to that post. I don’t have a strong opinion on her slot absent your flip.

I did try to imply a shift upwards... earlier I had sam as

hard null

that I just think is being unfairly targeted by bad pushed

[TemporalLich]

also is it just me or is MB an openwolf?

[TemporalLich]

if you think Sam is definitely scum I need proof, otherwise you're the one who's scum

[TemporalLich]

if you are a cultist... your hubris will be your downfall

pedit: then he shouldn't be saying sam is 240% likely to be scum

[TemporalLich]

look if I can manage to get the cult leader served with a side of lime D1 then the town can stay light

[TemporalLich]

look if I can manage to get the cult leader served with a side of lime D1 then the town can stay light

do you know who the cult leader is?

no but MB is starting to look like one

[TemporalLich]

Grand idea is built on a tar pit of random ideas... nothing is guaranteed, anything is possible

[TemporalLich]

Furthermore on MS cults are explicitly bastard.

No bastard tag.

Except you're lying about this game not being marked as bastard and this is Grand Idea of all things it is extremely bastard and I thought you knew that.

pedit: Think of Grand Idea like putting every possible good and bad idea for Mafia roles into a cocktail shaker, blending the cocktail shaker, throwing the blender at the wall, and shorting out an outlet leading to a house fire.

this is why you and MB are scum, you keep trying to pressure samantha for unfair reasons.

ppedit: It's about as bastard as having a Seer with no werewolves or a Miller with no cop. It's not bastard.

Well this is still grand idea

pppedit: please subtract your confirmation bias before you divide by zero

[TemporalLich]

but can you count to infinity

twice

?

pedit: when did MB townslip?

[TemporalLich]

but can you count to infinity

twice

?

pedit: when did MB townslip?

saying it wasnt bastard so there couldnt be a cult. i think cult leader faked a non-cultslip.

oh yeah... MB is probably a cult leader then and we should get MB limed

[TemporalLich]

... like MB?

[TemporalLich]

cults are scum, and should be treated like any group of Impostors

[TemporalLich]

samantha isn't scum

[TemporalLich]

you might be softclaiming a stupid role which would be... why? why would you softclaim?

though you are probably just throwing shade at your bad Mafia skill

[TemporalLich]

samantha isn't scum

[TemporalLich]

look your push on sam is just "lol I want to push sam"

[TemporalLich]

im the best scumhunter in the world

you sound like someone selling alternative medicine

[TemporalLich]

can anyone actually give me an actual fucking case on sam?!

otherwise I'm going to say sam is townlean out of sheer spite.

[TemporalLich]

look, I think sam is town and that ABR's nonexistent case is not going to convince me and ABR is just playing the "I am a scumhunting god" card

pedit: and you must be the Pope then. If you want to call things by other names let me know because this isn't the freaking Day of Confusion

[TemporalLich]

you're not culting ABR

[TemporalLich]

Sam isn't scum

[TemporalLich]

Unless you have Sam confirmed as scum somewhere sam isn't scum imo

[TemporalLich]

come on why are we trying to mislim sam?

[TemporalLich]

Better question: Why are you so intent on defending someone who is very likely scum?

because I'm trying to counteract ABR who is so intent on attacking Sam while refusing to give a case

[TemporalLich]

Basically I'm calling ABR on his BS, please show me a case instead of saying "lol sam is scum trust me"

[TemporalLich]

come on why are we trying to mislim sam?

Why are you so certain that sam is a mislim?

it goes both ways

because ABR is so certain that sam is scum without an actual case

[TemporalLich]

Better question: Why are you so intent on defending someone who is very likely scum?

because I'm trying to counteract ABR who is so intent on attacking Sam while refusing to give a case

I told you ABR doesn’t do cases. Why are you so insistent on a case existing? Someone’s alignment doesn’t change based on a case or lack of case. I tried this when Taylor and I were scum and caught in a gambit. You reek of “nooooo not Sam” vibes. So I ask again why are you trying to counteract someone who is very likely town?

because charisma isn't enough to convince people to agree with you... for all I know sam actually is town and if sam gets mislimmed we end up losing via the scum being able to roflstomp us

[TemporalLich]

Secondly I have provided two subtle cases myself, yet you ignore those. Why?

I didn't ignore anything.

[TemporalLich]

look I don't know what cases you are talking about so how am I ignoring something?

[TemporalLich]

before you ask, humility is what scum does

[TemporalLich]

unless they are openwolfing

[TemporalLich]

why are votes for samantha splitting in two

i need more people to vote samantha to test this out

VOTE: Samantha

Sure no problem.

Then I will unvote after a VC.

this isn't a case don't try to pass this off as one

[TemporalLich]

why is sam scum?

Their iso is crap. Nono while with less posts is at least pushing things. Sam just is all “let’s look at the inactives”

I respectfully disagree, I checked Sam's ISO and it looks promising. As in it looks like it comes from a town player but there's nothing in it that's AI from my knowledge.

[TemporalLich]

ABR is still my top read, I just don't believe sam is scum and the strength of my opinion is to avoid being humble

[TemporalLich]

grand idea thread

sigh

and where is that

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59348 here you go

[TemporalLich]

I have 4 votes on me right?

nope it's 5 right now

also I sent page 63 viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59348&start=63

Here

You do know page 63 is actually here right?: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59348&start=1550

[TemporalLich]

You’d be wrong DT. I don’t know what page numbers my predecessor submitted but my role is on page 70. It conflicts with the good majority of 63.

Sam is almost assuredly scum.

I just can’t explain without hardclaiming.

I have crumbed a lot of it since the start.

Look back at the convos I have had.

I need to be here tonight to confirm ABR. Please.

you know what fine I'll unvote for now. I probably shouldn't have ignored this but oh well.

UNVOTE:

pedit: I'm gonna assume since "63" is in the URL it's an honest mistake

[TemporalLich]

I don't even know why I'm pushing sam town so hard besides to spite ABR's lack of case but an ISO skim only reveals sam's ISO to be "promising" instead of towny like I initially thought

[TemporalLich]

oh right... I've been pressured so I'm trying to look town

[TemporalLich]

The URL linked starts at post #63, which isn't a page.

And no one called Sam on it before so it's still possibly an honest mistake.

And yeah Sam's ISO is just mechanics instead of reads... that's why it is "promising"

[TemporalLich]

ah... I said "promising" as in iioa is a towntell... if iioa is a scumtell Sam's ISO is terrible and I'd actually be better off voting Sam as that would vindicate both you and ABR for having actual good cases

[TemporalLich]

I believe albert/temporal/plusjoyed about their alignment. The only person who has done anything that has given me direct reason to think they're mafia (inactivity excluded) is doubting so far

how I managed to miss this on a skim idk

[TemporalLich]

I found 466 as the only read so far, that's something but that likely is just sheeping

[TemporalLich]

Ah what the hell

VOTE: samantha97

E-1

Would like a claim before hammer pls

[TemporalLich]

Your submitted page/pages doesn’t mean your role comes from those pages.

Yeah, someone must have submitted page 108 but it isn't samantha...

we still have holes in page claims. My role is a Jake role so it's autoincluded.

pedit: same, Wondrous Townie might end up doing something weird like culting

[TemporalLich]

I'm okay with hammer. If someone sent in page 108 they need to claim their pages... but I am not waiting.

pedit: yeah, sam's claimed role is swing on a stick

[TemporalLich]

bring down the hammer

[TemporalLich]

Should I use my ability? I assume no, not even with a sam townflip

[TemporalLich]

Should I use my ability? I assume no, not even with a sam townflip

Assuming you’re town and true claiming (which I am not sure on either way)

I would say no.

There’s no evidence of a cult here far as I can tell. I have been in a few cult games and they have certain hallmarks.

If I am right in something you said earlier it would be vital to be done at the right time.

alright... you're the one who I suspected the most of being a cultist but I don't suspect you. Besides, I don't want to risk ABR dying.

[TemporalLich]

I wouldn't eliminate myself, that would be bad play

[TemporalLich]

I'm 400% sure sam is a fake claimer now

[TemporalLich]

DGB's posts are off-putting but not in the way that makes me think DGB is scum

pedit: In the zerolikely event that sam is town... MB is scum. i am confident sam is scum though

ppedit: DGB is what I call a

nullscum

... the ISO gives me bad feelings inside. samantha97 on the other hand is a full blown

scumread

from me

[TemporalLich]

The best way I can describe DGB's ISO is with my small atom of experience DGB's ISO feels like it isn't at all playing to DGB's meta... yet I know nothing about DGB's meta

[TemporalLich]

Sam still tried to get a massclaim of page submissions... and still flubbed a fakeclaim...

That is what scum do.

pedit: MB has a case on sam about their massclaim push being purposely made to make a believable fakeclaim... yet nobody believes Sam is actually a miraculous townie or whatever

ppedit: DGB still feels like scum based on meta I know nothing about

[TemporalLich]

It's not RVS anymore most people have serious votes now

This question is redundant at this point, given your claim and moving us clearly out of RVS with it, but I'm still curious of an answer.

Why was it up to you and Tayl0r to decide whether or not we're out of RVS? Especially when like 2/3 of the player list wasn't here yet. Isn't that what you were trying to tell Tayl0r the whole time?

apparently starbuck wants me to answer this so...

nobody can truly tell the end of RVS, but the moment serious votes come out is the moment I say RVS is over.

[TemporalLich]

shall I vote DGB? don't want to quickhammer

[TemporalLich]

VOTE: DGB

E-1

honestly that claim makes me think the astral demons are here...

[TemporalLich]

I holstered

[TemporalLich]

I am very thankful I holstered btw... ABR is now strongly confirmed

[TemporalLich]

anyway I'm not confident NWNN is a celestial angel from the skies... ABR claimed he had a Combiner as a target (it appears as town and alien)

VOTE: samantha97

and of course sam is still scum, ABR being conf town helps

[TemporalLich]

pedit: DGB claimed she had a Combiner as a target (it appears as town and alien)

[TemporalLich]

ebwop: ebwop

[TemporalLich]

anyway I'm not confident NWNN is a celestial angel from the skies... ABR claimed he had a Combiner as a target (it appears as town and alien)

VOTE: samantha97

and of course sam is still scum, ABR being conf town helps

DBG* claimed it. ABR is a sweetheart.

yeah I realized I meant to put DGB, hence the ebwop

[TemporalLich]

Is angel the same as alien here? Like in the Styx song?

Good song.

I'm cool with Sam at this point.

VOTE: Sam

Celestial angel was Alien PT flavor I used for a Grand Idea game.

I targeted galron. I dunno if it did anything. Also, I don't care if you lynch me but temporal is shady as heck for the complete 180.

733 and 740 basically sum up why I 180'ed... also I stopped reading MB as cult leader (and have more reason to believe MB is town now).

pedit: MVNN was someone seen as sus by DGB

[TemporalLich]

I mean MWNN is alien combiner

Even if you are assassin, you're a fucking idiot if you think I'd be sitting here crumbing anti town roles.

Assumedly you can think for a second and wonder what it gets me to claim alien in the thread and then realize it gets me nothing.

So this whole thing is based on me being as dumb as you, which isn't true.

... yeah this feels about right

[TemporalLich]

and have more reason to believe MB is town now

If you holstered why today do you have more reason to believe Math is town?

because of the ABR confirmation claim

[TemporalLich]

I don't want to be the one who ends up killing ABR, so no

[TemporalLich]

dang... I hate myself

[TemporalLich]

there's no cult but it doesn't fucking matter as ABR is dead

[TemporalLich]

I acted because of the quickhammer... clearly that was a bad idea but reading the thread after the quickhammer made me pretty confident there was a cult.

the town is dark but at least I'm confident MB is town.

[TemporalLich]

and ABR is fucking dead because of me.

VOTE: TemporalLich

[TemporalLich]

UNVOTE:

there still might be hope we win... don't want to lose

[TemporalLich]

Sorry, I'm just enjoying being right again.

That was at Temporal for the link to the post.

viewtopic.php?p=12122258#p12122258

I believe this is my role.

[TemporalLich]

PlusJOYED might have "Invincible Defense"... pretty sure dying because of Lover is an unavoidable death that should normally never be able to be stopped even via untargetability.

Then again, Invincible Defense shouldn't exist because it is power creep.

[TemporalLich]

Sorry, I'm just enjoying being right again.

That was at Temporal for the link to the post.

viewtopic.php?p=12122258#p12122258

I believe this is my role.

How do you only believe it's your role?

It either matches or it doesn't

It's my role, but there's like a 0.01% chance I may have a false role PM because this is Grand Idea and you would be a foolish mortal to assume that some things aren't possible.

[TemporalLich]

Not that I'm aware of.

[TemporalLich]

Anyway I turned the town dark just to find out there isn't a cult.

ABR and DT both ended up town flipping, so there's at least a 50% chance ABR died because of me.

I assumed ABR died because of me because DT flipped a 1-shot Vig.

I'm thinking we likely have Werewolves, but that's an unfounded notion and you shouldn't trust it.

I mean there's a -20% chance of MB being a cultist so there's a 115% chance of MB being town.