Mini 2241: The Neighborhood -- ENDGAME

[Gorkington]

i thought you were going to take care of things last night.

[Gorkington]

no.
but my opinion on kazyan is apparently worthless so who cares.

[Gorkington]

thats probably harsher than it needs to be when theyre probably closer to null for me but oh well.

[Gorkington]

I'm kinda wondering whether I should out my result lol

if you can claim something provable and make my brain stop wanting to straight up kill you and unwnd then im not going to complain.

[Gorkington]

i cant untinge my perspective on yesterday knowing how navi flipped, maybe i would have settled there
but a big part of me feels that unwnd probably would have died yesterday if i was here when the navi wagon was happening.

if you cant confirm yourself with your role then you should be trying a lot harder than this to convince me that unwnd is town here because to me everything hes saying seems super fake, he does not seem town and you have a grace space around you purely from this nebulous PR claim. and frankly if unwnd ever flips red you should know that youre basically dead and be more concerned about that possibility.

neither of your reads on each other are particularly convincing and you arent doing a good job of conveying what youre seeing to the rest of the class so
maybe uh.
try harder if youre town to make me see the light here.

[Gorkington]

why is gamma partnered with lld while we're at it

[Gorkington]

LLD’s entrance felt kinda organic in a way that I unfortunately can’t really dive into yet but I expect will make sense when I get to it.

whenabouts are you planning on getting to this

[Gorkington]

pooky do you still think its unwnd/duck.

[Gorkington]

@duck

convince me like 2-3 sentences on
a) unwnd being town
b) lld being mafia

i will give you a shiny gold star and will earnestly think about it if you do.

[Gorkington]

gold star pls

[Gorkington]

Not anytime soon, unfortunately.

why

who is even getting first place????

the best.

p-edit: i really dont think pooky is mafia and i at least find it cartoonish that you would think it really likely that he is mafia here.

[Gorkington]

Also their convo w me yesterday was the first time in this game I've been like fairly confident I was interacting with a townie - was very earnest.

what posts in particular struck you as being earnest

but she dismissed all of my issues with her play as non-game related and has been impossibly prickly about her play, without actually coming back and evaluating anything or pushing the game

this feels like an unfair assessment but at the same time
i guess theres a part of me that would be kind of unimpressed if you were doubling down on some of this so aggressively as mafia knowing that she was at least partially correct in a way that to would be inherently pretty mean spirited.
(this is probably too honest of an assessment.)

p-edit: i mean i dont remember anyone's fringe reads that well at this point. i mentally checked out pretty hard with the navi greenflip and am coming in to today prioritizing unwnd over you sort-wise for what should be obvious reasons.

[Gorkington]

if you were doubling down on some of this so aggressively as mafia knowing that she was at least partially correct in a way that, to me, would be inherently pretty mean spirited

fixed.

[Gorkington]

complications

cool, thanks.

[Gorkington]

Heavily townreading unwnd and heavily townreading Pooky were like, significant events in my read trajectory.

the exercise was attempting to convince me of your read.

p-edit: its kind of hard not to litigate it when its an aspect of how youre trying to convince me of how youre reading her.

[Gorkington]

like if you want to just push LLD without relitigating it then you should be trying to pull evidence in such a way that doesnt involve the disagreement and your frustration with her, but youre choosing to do that whether you want to acknowledge that youre doing it or not.

[Gorkington]

do you not see that she ignored my actual game related issues with her opening wholesale?

i dont know how to respond to this without re-opening that conversation in a way that you wont like.
to be indirect about it, i do not feel as though anything in that conversation can or should be taken as alignment indicative, particularly on whether LLD should have been parsing your play at that point when she was likely upset with you, regardless of her alignment.

i think if you want to convince me LLD is mafia and you dont want me to unpack that conversation you should be trying to pull from other sources of her play as argument as to why shes mafia. which maybe is hard if youre town here and you think the most alignment indicative elements come from that section of her play.
but given that you dont want to talk about it, the clear strategic thing to do on your part is to work around it.

i sort of wish that i just hadnt asked about this now weeeee.

[Gorkington]

So I want you to try and if you can't find a good reason?

well i tried with one of them and now im just a big sad :v

i technically owe the worst a reread of his ISO and i would ideally like for him to contextualize his read on unwnd better which i could then try to parse.
i can also try to commit to eventually try to do the whole bother people to figure out why theyre doing what theyre doing that youre talking about here but it doesnt really feel like tonight is a night for tryharding for me.

i get where youre coming from on the wagon on you so far feeling a little sparse in terms of explicit reasoning from the people pushing it, but i feel like if you want to question the votes on it, if they refuse to answer you then that just looks bad on them and discredits the wagon on you?

Why did Navi the VT die over The Worst, the CLAIMED PR?

i feel like scum can be uncomfortable pushing a claimed PR based on optics? even if it would have technically been the optimal thing to do, if i were scum in this game i would have been incredibly uncomfortable trying to push that wagon through knowing how hard it would be to justify how it looks with the flip.

[Gorkington]

I protected unwnd last night lmaoo

you thought unwnd was a likely nightkill

[Gorkington]

idgi
are we taking it at face value that mafia shot unwnd last night? because i have a lot of problems with that assessment
and they start with feeling as though that being correct about that is really uncharitable towards the mafia team's kill selection ability

[Gorkington]

like unwnd is a fine shot to make if you are very ok with the status quo

it completely ruins the unwnd/worst partner assessment though.
unwnd is easily one of your best miselim options coming into D2.

[Gorkington]

i straight up hard reset all of my reads with an unwnd flip.
it would be a phenomenally bad shot for mafia to take in that world.

[Gorkington]

serious question. how much of the last 48 hours of d1 did you read?

there wouldnt be a situation where i wouldnt have read everything up to the current point of time before posting content.
why are you even asking this?

[Gorkington]

maybe i dont get any AI information from your conversation with someone else just because you felt good about it.
is that not fucking obvious to you or what

[Gorkington]

Gork I gave you response earlier if you want to read that

k.

p-edit: maybe im stupid. feel free to tell me so postgame.

[Gorkington]

sorry.
not intelligent.
i dont know how to stop myself from saying that word apparently.

[Gorkington]

tw just as an fyi reiterating this thing about me being uncooperative and thus a bad nightkill because im just negative utility for the game is making me feel like checking out. if thats your goal then feel free to keep at it and i guess you get what you wanted from scum last night.

[Gorkington]

no.

[Gorkington]

have been following along, but dont have much i want to add right now beyond just that my initial intuition is that i would also prefer going for a flip.

[Gorkington]

also have one of my trademark "hot take gut vibe"-reads but i might try to save it for after ive made time to actually read and see if i still feel the same at that point when im actually being useful again.

[Gorkington]

come on duck
give in to your hatred
join us on the lim side

if you join us we can even rename it to the duck side and then its like thematic

[Gorkington]

Why would you vote outside of Kaz/unwnd today with that result?

Because it’s not truly conclusive and the lack of kill had me wondering things that made claiming extremely unappealing.

But if one of them is scum flipping one of them guarantees we lim scum by tomorrow...

I think Gamma is scum here but also probably better to get another parity check just in case?

if you thought gamma was scum, why also think that there would be a guaranteed scum lim tomorrow with a flip in the pair?

Gork, I'm imploring you to look at the group of people currently voting me (Kazyan, Worst, Meg) and try to find a good faith reasonable argument about why I'm scum from ANY of them that you can agree with.

can you walk me through why you included kazyan in this pile?

Right? Like there's no way you can't find a good acceptable reason to flip the Worst there.

this reaction is extremely delayed and probably not useful anymore:
i think its less an issue about finding a good acceptable reason. i dont doubt that a good scum player could do that. average scum players are probably going to care enough about their optics to be at least uncomfortable going for it.

Can I ask why we're no eliminating if we can kill Kazyan to test Gamma partially?

Like if Gamma is telling the truth, we want to kill Kazyan.

If Gamma is lying... we may still want to kill Kazyan, but we learn faster if the worst becomes town because of his doctor...

what changed since you said that you were willing to straight up lose to kazyan because of the mod question?

[Gorkington]

kk that makes sense.

[Gorkington]

Well Kazayn and House are both bleeding town in this game thread

was this solely based on that one quote then?

[Gorkington]

it probably doesnt make you feel better, but gamma is really self resolving and if he is mafia he doesnt really have much space to work with here.
especially since i think we're probably going to end up limming outside the three of you if we arent no-limming, which is probably not what he would have wanted if he picked the two of you hoping to get two town miselims in a row.

[Gorkington]

MCat is here and not posting, his very last post was trying to clarify up his previous posts and explain them. I don't feel the gesture was necessary for one and it doesn't match his frustrated nature? The whole 'Gonna quit because I always get wagoned D1'. I just didn't buy it. I don't think MCat is a slouch even if I can't pin down what exactly drives him. My thought since then was that if MCat really wanted to prove his worth he would show it. Even Navi facing elimination left a few dying words. MCat continues to sink and I guess people are just alright with letting him. The guy won Paragon so clearly in his heart's heart there is something stirring in him even from the very little he saw. Instead of choosing to examine those points, he glossed it over and is now nowhere to be seen.

is this the biggest thing you want people to look at on meowder or was there another post that i missed?

[Gorkington]

i dont really think its convincing to think that when murder comes back to the thread after that last frustration post hes going to be in the same frame of mind and has to continue being defeatist.
i also think that holding someone to paragon standards is like classically a demotivating move (see: how everyone treated spiff after he won it, i havent actually clarified with him on this ever, but it generally seemed like he was run into the ground for not solving the game every single time he rolled town and didnt bring his A-game).

murder has been in this kind of place since at least team mafia and likely before then.
he could just be mafia struggling to find a place while also being in that energy. i would just need more in terms of evidence than just "hes not playing to my expectations" because he doesnt really seem like hes playing to that expectation in general lately because he isnt as interested in mafia right now or is too busy?

if you think his tone seems too flat for him to be town then could try to pull specific offending posts that i could try to look at to see if i feel the same way?

[Gorkington]

i'll try to do a pair of murdercat/Meg ISOdives later tonight either way.

[Gorkington]

this is like a public knowledge gimmick alt for me
im cheetory6

[Gorkington]

idk if people paid attention to my game in team mafia
but.
remember zaiden?
i dont really trust people to parse a player when they turn their brains off when it comes to them acting weirdly.

oh snap hi cheeeeet! :3

hi pooky sorry for taking my skin off this game i just wanted to try something different (:

[Gorkington]

i dont really trust people to parse a player when they turn their brains off when it comes to them acting weirdly.

this is probably unfairly dismissive but.
i do think that theres way too much leeway being given to kazyan based on them acting weirdly.

[Gorkington]

i thought zaiden was scum up until he wrote a big essay about how i was a trash person and i wanted to believe that mafia wouldnt do that just because they were fragile about being scumread but here we are.

p-edit: i mean i think its just optimal to flip someone else and see what happens with gamma?
are you confident in your ability to hunt for partners? treat gamma as a confirmed scumflip and who is a likely partner in your pool?

[Gorkington]

i'll just be upfront and say that i think that LLD feels like she has decent partner equity with both kazyan and gamma.

i got very weird vibes from kazyan's vote on her and subsequent unvote and the willingness to go for them over exploring other options like looking outside the pool just seems.. weird.

gamma is also being weird and hedgy about talking about LLD in a way that i dont really understand.

i think that her entrance was fine in terms of it seeming like a protown move, but ive just generally gotten the vibe that she hasnt really been 110% behind any push shes made.
im less confident in this aspect because i think the game has been generally hostile to her in a way that would make it hard to find her feet as either alignment. i just find the way shes been reaching for things seems more self-preservationist in a way that i think has an agenda and not enough solving energy.

i have hesitation here because i think this game has probably sucked for her so far and i dont want to add to that, but shes like a literal nexus of my biggest question marks in this game right now.

[Gorkington]

i just think that theres a lot of weirdness in the interaction you had with kazyan that doesnt really make sense to me.
like, this is a shea game. a mod who is very explicitly about "hey maybe dont take everything you typically think about games for granted"-design. i would totally get re-assessing on kazyan after a flip in that pile, but unwnd and gamma are both still probable question marks.

gamma isnt claiming a guilty out of no where, its coming from him having been wagoned.
to me, its just very strange for you to have dropped your townread on kazyan based on a lot of uncertainties and the simplest rational to me for doing that is that the interaction from before could have potentially been distancing. i could be wrong, im especially not feeling confident in myself right now, but thats how ive been reading that interaction for a while now.

theres also that it reads like you also downplayed your read there when you had before been saying that kazyan was spewing town on the thread which made it seem like it was based on more than just that series of posts.

Also, if anyone is hedging on me rn Gork, it's you.

You open the post saying that you think I have partner equity

and end the post hmming and hawwing about uncertainties and how I've been treated this game.

That's hedging.

i can feel guilty about thinking youre mafia and wanting to push you because i dont want this game to be miserable for you regardless of whether im right or wrong, especially given that ive been straight up told that my pushes during D1 were hostile in a way that was demotivating and i'd rather not add to that if i can avoid it at this point.

Also, saying I haven't been 110% behind my pushes this game when I went 110 for Dwlee, then went similarly for the Worst even after becoming demotivated.

given that youve been explicit about the manufactured aspects of your read on dwlee i would think it would be obvious why it would potentially read as being fake.
i cant really comment on the worst beyond just feeling as though i didnt get a sense that you believed your push there.

[Gorkington]

no and i dont really understand the point of the question when ive stated then i think you could be partners with two of the people in a pile that has a scum in it.

[Gorkington]

youre certainly free to argue that im not smart or scum if thats the approach you want to take.

i just think unwnd is town right now.
i did already state that from your POV unwnd should still probably be a question mark.

[Gorkington]

well you were making it sound like youre townreading unwnd based purely on mechanical reasons which came across as an extremely shallow reason to drop a townread that you claimed to be incredibly confident in.
i dont see any reason why gamma has to make moves that logically make sense to me as scum who is under fire in terms of who he claims for his claim if hes lying.

p-edit: claiming that someone is being inconsistent with their logic as town is more or less inferring that i should be being smarter here as town, which is more or less what i feel like youre trying to get at with a lot of your points in this conversation right now.

[Gorkington]

i wasnt particularly under the impression that unwnd was widely being townread beyond him having been the worst's target?
why does gamma have to have some amazing move in mind when he was suddenly flash wagoned?

[Gorkington]

why arent you interrogating dannflor in the same way about his skepticism on gamma?

[Gorkington]

nvm hes skeptical of unwnd
i probably shouldnt have even talked about my thoughts knowing this was probably going to be the resulting conversation when im so low energy today

p-edit: why is it unreasonable? he bought himself at least a day if not more

pp-edit: its not a whataboutism if youre choosing to only engage with a position the moment when its coming from someone who is potentially threatening to you right now.

[Gorkington]

Being the worst's target created a world where Unwnd is widely townread. Are you saying you disagree with that statement?

its a shea setup? im townleaning him independently of the result

[Gorkington]

Because there were better options that buy him more than a day as scum and don't tie him into the Unwnd/Worst skepticism.

this is entirely contingent upon us flipping kazyan now and the worst dying at night. he would buy more than a night in the scenario that we no lim.
this is also entirely dependent on the notion that someone who is being hard pushed all of a sudden is inherently going to come up with a good claim.
ie: dgb signature, etc.

Further, you're not threatening to me, because I'm not on the chopping block today.

in another parallel universe where im feeling good my response to this would be "i love a good challenge".
i dont really see why you think youre in a particularly safe position right now.

Were I scum and you town, my correct move is to continue doing what I am doing, or even allow a no elimination, shoot you tonight, and your reads would be forgotten by 2 days from now.

i find it hard to believe that scum you would just ignore me.

True or False?

i guess true? but it still doesnt necessarily mean that gamma is going to make optimal decisions as scum in that position. why does scum have to make good decisions under pressure?

[Gorkington]

gamma is also refusing to vote for kazyan which plays directly against your theory that he isnt playing in a way that would buy him more than a day as mafia here.

[Gorkington]

You really don't understand how I play scum if you think I am above ignoring and then killing you if I feel you're a threat.

maybe you dont see me as a threat, but i think its extremely probable that scumYou thinks that you can use me as a springboard for content.

im probably doing more harm than good if i am right by pushing this in terms of giving you a chance to get back into this game and my track record of convincing anyone about anything in this game.
but im not going to just pretend to not have a read on the gamestate if i have it.

p-edit: kaz has a scumgame on-site.

[Gorkington]

Like, I don’t entirely feel averse to getting limmed tomorrow if I can help further sort out the PoE with my flip

this is an absolutely bizarre stance

[Gorkington]

They only have one game as scum and looking at that ISO compared to this one is vastly different.

can you articulate this in more depth?

[Gorkington]

dflgjkhohijeoihmogikhbmfogijnofigjnoifgjnofigjb.

[Gorkington]

sometimes i cartoonishly think that im an impact player when im just an easy to townread and loud player.
im accepting that youre probably right that i have no sway in this game but find it a lot more likely for scumYou to try to make me look ridiculous for content than for scumYou to just handwave my assessment of you and kaz.

[Gorkington]

hhhfffhhh
I think a part of this might be that I’m kinda applying things I’ve felt IRL to this game. My hopes and dreams for a long time have been to create something artful that is very “me” and also feels like adding something of value to the world. Currently my thinking is I want to try and make music, some of it based on the feelings inside me.

i dont
understand

[Gorkington]

You think in this game, after my exchange with Dwlee went the way it did and how people have treated me (something you yourself mentioned, so you're aware of it) that I'm capable of making you look ridiculous from my position?

Gork, you're not making any sense.

the point is a lot less about the intent being to make me look ridiculous and more about the logic of my posts being easy to respond to/pick at in a way that you could fake-generate content from.

[Gorkington]

I understand this is somewhat brief. I understand that yes, people can change. Maybe Kaz has improved since then and has become self-aware of their own town meta. Rolling town a lot you can take something from it and then attempt to replicate it. I really doubt that though, and I'd rather be fooled be an imrpoved Kaz then doubt that they're just town signaling behavior that fits.

can you side by side compare kaz's pushes in a towngame to their pushes in a scumgame and really think about whether one is more similar to here?
i get that your argument is that earlygame is a strong indicator of alignment, but i do think that theres a discernable absence of genuine feel from kazyan's scumgame in terms of how they pushed votes vs their towngame and i was reminded a lot more of their scumgame in that capacity here.

[Gorkington]

kazyan was under 0 pressure in that game too.
i think you should try to compare towngame to here as a higher priority if you arent already doing that.

[Gorkington]

kazyan's they/them btw

[Gorkington]

ohkay.
it does indeed sound like we're swerving back in the direction of no lim.

[Gorkington]

im not really willing to risk a gammavote, sorry unwnd.
if we're not doing outside the trio then im probably going no lim.

[Gorkington]

i'll put some effort into megazu when i do enough stuff to make me feel like im not being useless in the meat world again

[Gorkington]

@LLD

is there a reason that you havent put any kind of effort into casing kazyan if you think theyre the most likely to flip scum out of the three of them?
like, i get the notion of you thinking unwnd/gamma are town via mechanics (or at least im assuming thats what youre saying), but wouldnt articulating why theyre scum based on their play be the easiest course of action here for you to get what you want here?

[Gorkington]

townies arent very good at figuring things out as youve already said. if youre right then perhaps you should change your approach to try to convince other people that youre right instead of throwing your hands up and voting for gamma?

[Gorkington]

if now is a bad time then thats fine.
i just have questions about your approach that i'd like to revisit at some point if thats the case.

[Gorkington]

im probably being a little artificial right now. in a weird mood today.

[Gorkington]

VLA for thanksgiving

[Gorkington]

im done eating turkey now so okay.

though idk how much its going to help for me to be active when my reads have apparently been shit-tier.

[Gorkington]

well my strongest reads this game have been kazyan/you/duck/LLD as mafia and i only really think kazyan has much of a shot of flipping scum rn.

p-edit: more or less same.

[Gorkington]

oh and navi too.

[Gorkington]

oh i mean yeah its probably a lot more protown to push your reads confidently in general if you think theyre right, but that doesnt mean i dont feel like my reads so far have been bad.

[Gorkington]

i mean, i wasnt inactive because i was worried about being wrong?
i dont really think that concern applies to anyone, and its more likely that people were a little drained on D2 because of gamma's claim and us being uncertain over what we were even doing with the day.
feels kind of similar to the problems in our game in team mafia where its like.. we're not even really playing mafia right now because we're navigating claim stuff instead of game stuff?

its probably wrong to just want to hope that gamma is town and can give us a gamebreaking result here but that kind of feels like what the game is right now, for better or for worse.

[Gorkington]

gamma can you give a summary of your headspace right now?

[Gorkington]

@kazyan

whats your best guess for a 3 person scumteam right now?

@megazu

why do you prefer gamma over kazyan today?

@gamma

on a scale of 1-10 how likely is it that your will does a 180 sometime before deadline of this cycle?

@people dogpiling gamma right now with mostly naked votes

is there a particular reason that youre strongly confident in this being scumGamma vs townGamma and/or why scumGamma wouldnt just fake a result to buy more time?

[Gorkington]

i still dont really think dwlee is scum here.

[Gorkington]

well i guess besides megazu they arent really naked votes.
but im pretty uncomfortable by how nonchalantly gamma's getting run up when we should be trying to be resilient against going on autopilot at this point

[Gorkington]

kazyan and gamma also has to have one

[Gorkington]

and i mean, even more strongly linked than the duck?
the duck and gamma could feasibly both be town and mafia could just be extremely happy with this gamestate/not want to resolve anything within that pile of tension because we might do it for them

[Gorkington]

kazyan and gamma also has to have one

granted its probably bad that im treating you as town out of convenience at this point q_q

i just still feel like the world of there being two scum in the pile of you/duck/gamma/kazyan is like.. generally low (and we would probably start seeing counterclaim stuff to duck/gamma at some point)
and the chance that gamma is town and we threaten a potential roleblocker outside of that pile with a lim could force their hand?

i just feel like this is a very high risk medium reward play and the lack of resistance to it is weird if gamma is scum.

[Gorkington]

why?

[Gorkington]

if we do some sorting and gamma is still a limp stick then like
im probably fine settling there if we've exhausted some other sorting.

i just feel like we really shouldnt be being lazy right now on flipping a claimed role like this.
i dont know what to make of gamma acting like this.
i would think townHim would be more outraged at the idea of being flipped because it would be a huge waste of a good power role that scum should be forced to try to kill
and i also think scumHim would probably give more of a shit over being flipped because his flip probably busts the game to some extent.

so idk can people case him or something
and not just say "welp we're flipping gamma because im tired of trying this game"

[Gorkington]

from your POV youve created a 1v1 between kazyan and unwnd, youre saying megazu is scum just now and ive heard you express a scumread on dwlee before now.

whats making you feel like youre a town consensus for a flip if at least half the votes on you could just be scum here?

[Gorkington]

why kazyan over unwnd

[Gorkington]

do you have reasons for scumreading kazyan outside of the mechanical reasons for doing so

[Gorkington]

VOTE: kazyan

[Gorkington]

what exactly would mafia have done with a hypothetical roleblock if not target gamma here

[Gorkington]

seems a little excessive to block a protective role and shoot them

[Gorkington]

or are you saying kill gamma
because killing gamma seems like it would also prevent him from getting results on you and murdercat

p-edit: ya hes probably saying that

[Gorkington]

i think kazyan's worldview rn is a lot more artificial and constructed to give me an answer i wanted whereas megazu felt like they outlined where their headspace was at in a way i liked.
unwnd has been uncompromising in a way that feels kind of genuine, though i'd be interested to see what the duck has to say about his paranoia on him,
gamma is hard to follow but being difficult in a way that consistently puts himself in more high pressure situations than he needs to be in.

im at a place where i wouldnt hate trying to push for a kazyan wagon even if im not incredibly confident about it.

p-edit: i feel like we're at the start of the game again reparsing house for weird comments and im hoping it eventually just swings back around into that place where it seemed like he was just town.

[Gorkington]

The only way to reliably read me is through familiarity with my weird ass ways.

what kind of stuff does your ass do that makes it easier to read you

it's not house that's bugging me specifically I think

it's just I've come to that conclusion for an uncomfortably high number of people this game it feels and some of it has to not be genuine I feel

house probably still is town but I feel like I can't just take it for granted

its less taking it for granted and more going with your headspace.
who is most likely to be mafia in your eyes right now?
its probably easier to focus on that then getting stuck in a quagmire trying to parse all of the weirdness with any kind of confidence.

p-edit: i mean yeah the no lim sucked.
kind of wish i had this headspace during D2 but cant really control those kind of things i guess.

pp-edit: i dont think ive ever seen a scumgame of yours, my memory is terrible and i dont think ive been particularly direct about my read on you here?
do you think i should townread you for the way you opened today?

[Gorkington]

lol.

[Gorkington]

i said im not townreading you right now.
you were gone for understandable reasons and my initial read faded as my reads tend to do when i dont have something to directly hold on to in front of me.

if i had said "wow house is a scumbutt" i would get the apprehension here but i dont really understand why youre making a big deal out of me not having found the one thing youve done today town.

p-edit: gamma cant have been blocked by a roleblocker if he was rolestopped.
heh.

[Gorkington]

that was like
the most hard to take in series of things in a 3-4 posts that ive ever seen
pardon me while i throw up

[Gorkington]

duck if youre town youre a butt for not understanding your own role

[Gorkington]

WE COULD HAVE LIMMED YESTERDAY!!!!!!
YOU SMELLY DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gorkington]

this game is fucking bizarre

[Gorkington]

i think if we flip my readlist from D1 and lim from the top we might get the scumteam

[Gorkington]

i also kind of do but maybe thats a sign that theyre town lol

p-edit: wow youre going to have a hard time accepting my personality in general then

[Gorkington]

shea can you wait like 30 minutes to lock the thread
hopefully you just dont read this post

[Gorkington]

it wasnt a serious post
i know i cant stop shea hes too powerful

[Gorkington]

better late than never

[Gorkington]

we're not turbolimming again

also obligatory "wow gorkington is the GOAT of reading newscum" post.
if only there were more new players in the game i guess.

[Gorkington]

i would lean that hes not atm but would also like words from him.

[Gorkington]

VOTE: murdercat
i think he flips red. his interactions around kaz suck and hes not being town.

p-edit: nothing like some correct results to inject directly into your veins to make you remember what it feels like to get something right.

[Gorkington]

What do you think of a Dwlee vote

idk im down to be convinced on things.
i think murder has objectively scummy things in the ISO in terms of lazy engagement on kazyan via meta to justify not voting them and then consistently expressing willingness to vote them D2 without actually doing it or expressing why he had reevaluated the meta.

p-edit: i guess its possible that its just the duck.
i just also have a gut feeling that scumHim doesnt do that play.

[Gorkington]

shea setup is bastard we dont have any bastard elements flipped yet
can someone unvote and can we actually think for a second before we flip him

[Gorkington]

is it possible that scum has like
a macho roleblocker

[Gorkington]

like some kind of roleblocker that would ignore the rolestopping element of the worst's role

[Gorkington]

okay rephrase
an unstoppable roleblocker targetting gamma would pass through the rolestop
is that not possible?

[Gorkington]

i just feel like we lose if we're wrong here.

[Gorkington]

As long as no townie claims that they stopped the nightkill on night 1 duckie's story doesn't add up

bleh this is true.

[Gorkington]

given how cavalier votes have been so far i think its pretty likely its going to happen.

[Gorkington]

aight since people arent going to clue in on this, i have some role reasons to think that the worst is town

[Gorkington]

an unvote please thanks

[Gorkington]

i dont really want to claim details right now but im like 75% sure that duck is a protective based on results ive gotten

[Gorkington]

I'm a JOAT

can you claim your n1 action?

[Gorkington]

okay cool i guess im not claiming.

[Gorkington]

nvm i think im stupid i just realized that the duck is probably a scum jailkeeper. zzzzz

[Gorkington]

d1 me is vindicated

[Gorkington]

i dont think it helps anything. i was probably wrong about what i thought.

[Gorkington]

i personally feel like megazu and unwnd shouldnt be claiming.
unwnd definitely shouldnt be claiming.

[Gorkington]

Megazu no cleaning why?

i personally would at this point only have people i think are particularly likely to be scum claim.

i would have also said you and pooky shouldnt have claimed but that was before i realized that i was being nOt SmArT

[Gorkington]

bleh should we just flip the duck? if we're just going to do it anyways then why out any potential PRs before doing it?
the only reason we stopped was because im gOoD aT tHe GaMe

[Gorkington]

probable fake association dumps.

[Gorkington]

if i had two bullets i'd probably shoot mcat and pooky and cackle maniacally at what i have wrought

imagine having two bullets
thinking its a 50/50 on two players
and then shooting only one of those two players

this isnt really a casepoint more just something that makes me Riu d abd oush dleeeee

[Gorkington]

anyone know any good jokes

[Gorkington]

dang im stumped how

[Gorkington]

fuck.

[Gorkington]

dwlee is winning the joke contest so far

[Gorkington]

VOTE: the worst

[Gorkington]

godspeed murdererduck.

[Gorkington]

gamma wagon is pretty useless for vote analysis.

[Gorkington]

nothing, but the worst is mechanically more or less guiltied and his posting today seems pretty forced.

[Gorkington]

i think it's more likely gamma (objectively very scummy) is just scum and fakeclaiming, than that there's both an ascetic and a rolestopper on one game. you do you tho.

Ok.

Let's play it your way.

VOTE: Gamma

I'm no game designer/reviewer. I'm just not a fan of early lims on investigative claims.

why did you go along with this when you had earlier said that you didnt believe the worst's claim?

p-edit: i guess im not reading the game either because i have no idea why you would think its obvious?

pp-edit: 3

[Gorkington]

i dont remember what i ate for breakfast today let alone most of your ISO by heart. can you mayhaps be less cagey about this and just explain why it should be obvious if it apparently is super duper obvious?

[Gorkington]

wow i think i found it! awesome!

[Gorkington]

let TW self hammer

i like this one best

[Gorkington]

we sit in purgatory until deadline and no lim, giving in to a fatalistic sense of disinterest in playing mafia in general, leading to an eventual scum win.

[Gorkington]

do you mechanically understand the circumstances that would have had to have happened for the worst to be town

because they arent very plausible
and the duck is also being considerably not town.

if you want to prolong the day then i feel like you should probably be trying to articulate a reason why

[Gorkington]

oh no, no wonder we're doing so badly, none of us have read the game

[Gorkington]

me, megazu, unwnd.

i think megazu is the only contentious slot worth potentially forcing to claim, but i dont really think theyre scum at this point and the less information scum has for this nightkill the more likely we can just hardsolve the game tomorrow if they make a suboptimal shot.