Mini Theme 2264: Fusion Upick | Post Game

[Ircher]

VOTE: Enchant
I'm ascetic.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Nordom
So if you flip as both, which wincon must you achieve?

[Ircher]

We should massclaim what we submitted.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Roden

[Ircher]

Your pick was "Traffic Analyst

"

Your pick was "Bus Driver,"

as a non-town player

, you know it was combined with "Paranoid Gun Owner.

"

This is a pretty convincing case actually.

Any particular reason you cut out the ability description? You know, the part that explains your role fusion so you know what you've been fused with?

This implies to me that you are in fact scum that slipped. Why does Almost50 need to keep the fluff of the ability descriptions when the quoted amount is the most relevant part of his case?

As scum. He's trying to push a fast mis-elim and is ignoring anything that goes against his case.

Nordom asked how not what. This doesn't answer the question. Also, if we're being reasonable, it's likely the case that Almost50 hasn't been around to respond to your counterargument.

[Ircher]

A50 literally just asked me a question. He's definitely around.

Unless you can prove he was around for 100% of the time between when he made his initial case and when you made the post I referenced, this isn't a counterargument.

[Ircher]

To make it clearer: my point was and still is that people do not respond instantaneously and expecting such a response in only an hour's time is unreasonable.

[Ircher]

Roden, Nordom, and Nathan are the scum.

[Ircher]

Finally! It only took three hours for someone to suggest that maybe the guy at E-1 should claim!

Or... You could have just done so without waiting if you are so keen on claiming...

I claim Vengesmith. Let me know if this one's too tough to figure out what it could possibly be a fusion of. I was given a decoder in my role PM as well, if any of you need it then let me know.

I do hope you cut the condescension. Now sure, while

/your/

role may have been easy to figure out what it fused from, that doesn't readily translate to everyone else's role. I still have large issues with the way you have framed this entire situation; just because something may be true for you doesn't mean it's true for everyone.

Well, alright hen.. this is a good lead I think. Can everyone else state whether their role follows the "name fusion" suggested by Roden or not?

Why? I think that's a terrible idea because it gives scum a lot of information. We already decided not to claim picks, so for a similar reason, we shouldn't do this claim dance either.

And the reason I'm asking is because we stand at 3-1 now. If everybody else confirms their roles names didn't follow a straightforward fusion as Roden's then Roden is most likely faking

No, this is still a poor idea. It gives a lot of info on a "what if", and the reliability of the conclusion is still not very high even on a "hit".

I'm still on board with a Roden lim.

[Ircher]

No scum team is killing town you tonight even if Almost50 is scum. They can keep you alive for the distraction and WIFOM purposes.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Almost50

[Ircher]

Sure, calling it out doesn't make Almost50 scum, but he has high scum equity regardless.

[Ircher]

It's complicated.

[Ircher]

Ircher, are you going to go the entire game without bothering to elaborate on reads? Should we just assume you're this "obvious high thinking town" who should just be sheeped at whim?

Perhaps I will, perhaps I won't. As to the second question, no. You are allowed to think of my reads as you like. If you agree then that's great! If you don't agree, well that's unfortunate but ultimately your decision to make.

I think Roden exacerbated the issue by not considering that town would think they made a slip and instead made it more of a 1v1 than placate the issue. I thought for sure that Roden was flipping scum because of that move alone.

This is all true, but it doesn't clear Almost50 by any stretch of the imagination.

Radical Rat in the first quote extrapolates that they're well aware of what Roden's claim mean and the implications with it.

I mean... Is that really such a wild guess? It's pretty hard to call something logical as TMI.

Almost has already gave out the response that they confused "Vengeful" with "Supersaint", which is the role that leads to the person hammering getting offed.

Perhaps, perhaps, but I think you are stretching here. It's not unreasonable to believe a vengeful would just venge the hammer for ease of decision making. Yes, it's an assumption, but again, it seems more plausible than what you are suggesting here.

1) Wanting a mass claim. 2) Now withholding a "complicated" case on A50. 3) The Roden tunnel, fine, several were. 4) Why not drop your case on A50 on us?

1: I never did that. I asked if we should claim our picks, but that's quite different from asking for a mass claim.
2: Okay.
3: Tunnel huh. Your comment is noted.
4: No.

[Ircher]

There's no "pretending to make a mistake here". You were too eager to lockdown the

elim

on Roden and just capitalised on what the one spear-heading the

elim

said which was Almost.

I think you should drop this chain of conversation. It's noise at this point.

[Ircher]

Why not do me now?

[Ircher]

I mean, there's clearly support for elimming me now. I think you'll find yourself hard-pressed to get Radical Rat limmed here.

[Ircher]

You'll be hard-pressed because your case is not very convincing. You're banking on convincing everyone else that your case is righteous and that seems unlikely. In comparison, if you advocate for my fading, you only need half of the remaining people to agree with you. That seems a much more likely outcome. Furthermore, once you establish your credibility after fading me, you will have an easier time fading Rat the following day.

[Ircher]

Again, why not take the path of least resistance?

[Ircher]

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=87190
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=83525

[Ircher]

Greeting is town.

[Ircher]

There's no need to soft so loudly. You could have left that part out.

[Ircher]

No, your sorting is fine. I'm referring to 463.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Enchant
Sure.

[Ircher]

Ircher, how many votes do you have to be on for you to actually start elaborating on your thought process and on the asked questions?

Twenty more.

[Ircher]

Flea The Magician is town.

[Ircher]

I genuinely think that scum are afraid to push on me because they know how vocal I've been and a push on me will go nowhere. It's interesting that most of the town reads to come my way have this element of "Town-lean" or "Maybe town" and not an outright solid town read. Greeting's read comes to mind.

Nah, it's I don't have the motivation to do cases rn. You're scum regardless.

[Ircher]

This setup contains a three player scumteam. The scumteam has multitasking, a factional nightkill, and their PT is open during both the day and night phases. Additionally they have an ability to ask whether or not a certain role name is in the game, at any time, up to 4 times.

This does not exclude the possibility of a third party. I have strong reasons to believe there is in fact one.

[Ircher]

I will reveal the info day 4.

[Ircher]

What exactly brings you motivation?

An interesting game perhaps. Nothing has caught my interest this game so far.

[Ircher]

If you have strong reason to believe it exists, maybe you should say it. Or do you think town being in the dark about setup is better?

Fine, I'll give a hint. Check Flea's day 1 posts.

[Ircher]

Yes. It's a mini.

[Ircher]

Ok, serious question to everyone.

Does ANYONE in the game scum read me?

I wasn't, but I am now wary since you are asking.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Nordom

[Ircher]

Sorry you repped into a scumslot Dwlee,

[Ircher]

Look if I were scum, I'd be putting in more effort than I am right now.

[Ircher]

Anyway Nordom was in fact scum, but it's a lot more convenient to vote there when I'm not going to get barraged by a flurry of posts that reiterate the same point 20 times.

[Ircher]

Nathann claimed to investigate and flip as both alignments
Enchant claimed an unspecified PR that is only active if he has at least one vote at the end of the Day
Nordom claimed the Mafia visiting Toogeloo thing

And I THINK that's everything for the living slots?

For dead slots, Roden was Vengesmith, gives someone on the wagon a one-shot vig, and Andante was a Force Visitor, which forces everyone who didn't visit someone else to visit her, for no other effect.

VOTE: Enchant
I'm ascetic.

[Ircher]

Or... We could kill actual scum like Dwlee.

[Ircher]

It's Almost50, Enchant, and Nathann.

[Ircher]

No.

In other news, my role is pretty much spent, so I'm okay with dying. Well, I would be if this wasn't potentially limlo. That complicates things.

[Ircher]

This is an explicit guilty, but I won't explain it today (trust me.. I have my reasons).

Explain your guilty.

[Ircher]

You're implying it's still a guilty of some sort.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Almost50

[Ircher]

Anyway, Flea was pretty on the nose day 1. Neighbor + Arsonist is the best description.

[Ircher]

I plead the fifth.

[Ircher]

It remains however that it's impossible for Almost to have an actual guilty of any sort on me.

[Ircher]

You're implying it's still a guilty of some sort.

^

You still haven't claimed to the otherwise, and as long as you continue to do so, you are 100% scum faking.

[Ircher]

I plead the fifth.

I don't think there's any reason to hold back at this point.

It's not holding back... It's that answering "why did I fake claim ascetic" is useless when the answer is along the lines of "Because I wanted to."

[Ircher]

It's not holding back... It's that answering "why did I fake claim ascetic" is useless when the answer is along the lines of "Because I wanted to."

Neighbor + Arsonist is the best description.

[Ircher]

Two of you will know tonight. They can share the following day if they'd like, or they can pass. I'm leaving the choice to them.

[Ircher]

UNVOTE:

[Ircher]

VOTE: Almost50
Actually, you explanation makes very little sense. In particular, if "In D3 (today) I also found myself all alone in a new hood, and the only 2 explanations I had were that Dwlee somehow decided to target me of all people or -much more likely- I was targeted by the ASCETIC so my ability didn't affect them." was the case, that would only serve to reinforce that I was an ascetic, not contradict it. Since when is visiting someone a crime? (Hint: It isn't unless the visited target was killed. Clearly, Almost50 was not killed.) This doesn't line up with how you claimed your role as a hard guilty to begin with.

"[...] so the only option left is he was a Scum PR himself, and that's the "guilty" I was talking about": Hold up, there are way more roles than the ones you considered. Fruit Vendor, Visitor, and Neighborizer are just a few that would give no indication of your alignment. Roleblockers is another example and can be both town and scum aligned. Instead of approaching this from a neutral standpoint, you approached it in a manner that automatically presumed I was scum. You wanted to find a reason to scum read, and you did. You're scum trying to score me as the final mislim.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Ircher
This is going to happen regardless. I'd rather sooner than later.

[Ircher]

What do you make of Almost50's unvote?

Perfunctory at best.

[Ircher]

I do not feel like reading up. Fill me in

Very simple:

Kill me today. Kill Almost50 tomorrow.

[Ircher]

Ircher, is that supposed to be some sort of AtE

No, it's an acknowledgement of the game state.

[Ircher]

It didn't stall. Greeting derailed it to get flashwagoned.

[Ircher]

Enchant and Toogeloo probably share the voting related role.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Almost50
Going back to this.

[Ircher]

Godfather isn't bastard although by today's standards, maybe it should be.

[Ircher]

Almost50 > Enchant > Noraa > Cat Scratch Fever.

Everyone else is town.

[Ircher]

Zzz zzz zzz...

[Ircher]

wait ircher is an arsonist? holdy up my skimming skills are not the hottest

Yep, and you're dying tonight along with one other person!

(This is a joke.)

[Ircher]

But Nathan claimed you were...

[Ircher]

I think Flea is town.

[Ircher]

Hi Flea, would you like to kill Almost50 instead?

[Ircher]

Oh nvm you're already voting there.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Noraa

[Ircher]

VOTE: Ircher

[Ircher]

Zzz Toogeloo. You should've let scum hammer "by accident".

[Ircher]

UNVOTE:

[Ircher]

VOTE: Almost50
Sorry Meg.

[Ircher]

I counted. My vote was the fifth one.

[Ircher]

Almost50 --> Enchant --> One of Cat Scratch/Noraa. That's my solve.

[Ircher]

I don't recommend the Enchant vote thing simply because there is not enough time.

[Ircher]

There was five at the time. You're scum aren't you Noraa?

[Ircher]

There was five at the time. You're scum aren't you Noraa?

You think I'm scum because i didnt count the votes right? lmao what

The two were not connected. I just fit them in one post.

[Ircher]

Enchant, put your vote back on.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Ircher

[Ircher]

Noraa gets eliminated tomorrow.

No. Kill Almost50 or Enchant first.

[Ircher]

For emphasis:

Kill Almost50 and Enchant before Noraa.

[Ircher]

Vote me.

[Ircher]

I bet you don't have the gusto to do so.

[Ircher]

4

[Ircher]

Very little. Scum's probably okay killing there to avoid confirming too many people as town, but Enchant's scum anyway, so....

[Ircher]

Unless you were asking about scum utility in which case there's a lot. Say we had a doc for instance. Scum Enchant can prevent that doc from saving an actual town like Toogeloo.

[Ircher]

Very little. Scum's probably okay killing there to avoid confirming too many people as town, but Enchant's scum anyway, so....

Okay so your first thought is that Enchant's town, and then you end with him being scum.

My stance on Enchant's alignment has been pretty consistent the past several posts. I was entertaining your what-if.

[Ircher]

Neighbor + Arsonist so no.

[Ircher]

Well it'll be clear enough if I was redirected, so you don't need to worry about that.

[Ircher]

You should vote me unless you want a no lim.

[Ircher]

Congrats at your hammer. I was town. My ability still works when dead, so to those lucky people: you better make good use of it.

[Ircher]

No, you are going to holster tonight.

[Ircher]

You can shoot tomorrow night, but if you shoot tonight, you risk losing the game.

[Ircher]

It's okay Noraa. It's twilight now.

[Ircher]

Thanks for modding Meg!

[Ircher]

This was a cool setup; I hope it gets run again in the future.

[Ircher]

I'd rather it stay non-multiball.