Mini 699: Insane Asylum Mafia: Game Over

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vote:Farside

stalkity stalk stalk :p

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Is this a random vote or a sorta-suspicious vote on your part, Penta?

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fos:tajo

mirth does not like blatant buddying.

corvuus, is that a post restriction.

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...and i almost missed that...sigh. tajo, was that a claim

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wow. simulpost.

unvote
vote; llama

for buying a miller claim immediately.

what else can you tell us about your role, tajo. also, anyone feel like counter claiming? [yes this is a serious question]

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i have no opinion of his claim for the time being. he only said he was a miller. he did not state whether he's claiming regular miller or death miller. he has not shared his flavor. i shall hold back forming an opinion on whether or not i believe him until he does this.

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...seriously? i didnt actually expect him to claim death miller or for there to be a counter claim...wow...one of them is either a bold liar or forbiddan is evil.

llama, what do you think of all this now

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...anyone else?

also, llama you did not answer my question

cor- if you do not have a post restriction please post a post without rhyming. if you do have a post restriction but are not allowed to admit to it, would it be possible for you to weave in the following phrase into one of your posts 'quoth the raven nevermore' without getting in trouble with the mod

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strangercoug; we had a 4-way doc claim in shrek mafia...one of the docs was a scum doc, however.

llama, i was hoping for my of an explanation of your thought process here.

i agree that of the three claims, juls's is the most suspicious. also to bring up what cor said awhile back, it is theoretically possible for 2 scum to both claim miller, when one dies, the other is 'confirmed.' hmmm...

juls, you did not claim in your first post. why

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Mirth, are you saying that Juls had to claim in his first post?

no. i am asking why

she

did not claim in

her

first post.

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unvote

that was what i wanted to know. thank you.

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unvote

that was what i wanted to know. thank you.

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im not going to excuse your use of the newb card. i will however state that there are two strategies for playing miller. outting yourself immediately or trying not to draw investigation. its an ongoing debate. anyways why did you think it was a good play to claim after he did

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cor, im not ruling out the fact that two of them might be in cahoots. since you're obviously post-restricted [as i doubt anyone would fake something that annoying], do you have to write in couplets or could you throw in a sonnet for fun...

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tajo, i wanted to see her reasoning. since both you and mana claimed first posts.

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it is possible it is jul's first time in a game with a miller, but what is unsettling for me is that when someone gets a weird role like that and theyve never seen it before, playing it blind is a bad move. it is the best idea to look into the dynamics of the role by either looking through the wiki, mafia discussion, or past games with it in it. juls just confirmed that she was not aware of the theory behind the miller role, thus she didnt do any of the above. i was unsure of this until she answered my question. i wanted her reasoning for not claiming, since lots of people do subscribe to the 'play it like a townie' school of thought, and i wanted to know if she was one of them or if there was something else going on there.

juls is the most suspicious one because she said she did not have flavour yet later backtracked to ditto mana's role. yet juls cannot know the exact wording of mana's role or if mana is leaving anything out [i think mana is, but i will not push this issue, and ask that no one else pushes it], yet she said that that was her role too. she cannot know this, and she did not specify for a while, despite questioning, whether she was normal or death. this rings major alarm bells for me. you are second most suspicious for the fact that you claimed death miller because of the very nature of the role itself. i think mana is the least suspicious of the three of you because of the order of the claim, but im not going to form any complete opinions on any of you for the time being.

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juls, as i said, it is not about the strategy you use, it is about the reasoning behind it. and you continue to worry me by saying that should know you're telling the truth. there is only one way for mana to know whether you're definately lying or not, and if mana is telling the truth, then mana can't know if you are.

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the reasoning behind a strategy. why a strategy would or would not work. why a particular strategy is or is not better than an alternative strategy. why, in this case, it might be better, if it is better, to be a potential time-bomb than to start the wifom from the get-go. ideally nobody adopts a plan of action without thinking it through. tajo's reasoning is pretty obvious regardless of his alignment here. your's wasn't.

juls, you need to stop taking things so personally and putting insults where i never used them. i can tell you right now that you will not like playing with me because i will question every little thing that you do since you have put yourself in a situation i find interesting to say the least. i am also no where claiming to be a good player. why are you turning this into a personal thing? why are you being so defensive?

if i were a miller and trying not to be suspicious? doesnt matter what i would have done. though for the sake of argument, if i decided to counterclaim right away, i would have given a complete claim with a role paraphrase immediately.

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juls; again, you misunderstand me. the reason i kept bringing up your reasoning is because i wanted it clarified. which you did. i find you suspicious not because of your reasoning, [and i dont see why you and tajo can't understand why i wanted to know it], which you did clarify when i asked, but because of your interaction with mana. also you didnt answer my question about defensiveness.

as for mass flavour claim, well, considering im pretty much universally against mass claim unless there are special circumstances present, i think my vote here should be obvious.

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juls; its actually normal to only have one person post restricted.

coug; you get an fos for sucking up

vote; pentadragon

i love how you're posting uselessness and not participating in the discussion

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I'm getting pro-town vibes from you and Mirth right now.

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yeah, thats why coug. writing 6 people off on page 6 is a bad idea.

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different from what exactly tajo

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different from what exactly tajo

From your previous game with me. Dont know what yet. Yes, something called gut and the fact that I still dont like how you implied that Juls had to claim miller in her first post when she probably wasnt aware of the optimal miller play.

uh huh. please back this gut up with quotes. as to juls, i implied nothing. i merely asked. juls seems to have gotten this. why do you keep going back to it.

as for saying that its unlikely that millers are lying, well, the only people who know whether they are or not are the millers themselves. so ignoring them just because of a role claim bothers me. speaking of the pervious game, tajo, i trust you remember nat's claim and how i was right about that being bull. so im not going to let any of you off the hook just yet.

coug 156; nice omgus vote there.

coug 164; no its not a nulltell. its not a good thing to do especially day 1 page 6. anyone who isnt suspicious of everyone is suspicious.

juls; do you really think thats enough to qualify as lurking right now. as we're on page 6. do you think that lurking in general is a valid scum tell. why or why not.

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why early on in the game particularly. does the fact that he already has two votes aside from yours have anything to do with it

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uh huh. juls, you'll find that you wont like most of the games on this site then, because tajo is right. llama and i arent the only ones who will attack people with questions. i cant speak for llama, but you caught my interest and there is no way in hell that im giving up on you or whoever replaces you. this has nothing to do with ego or making you feel stupid. this has to do with playing the game. also no one can make you feel stupid unless you decide to let them.

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unvote
vote; electra

for shameless wagoning. 4 votes was totally not warranted yet

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penta, no other comments? what abpot the votes you have accumulated?

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Penta is prob town.

why are you so sure of this already. he does not have very many posts and most of them are useless. he latest 2 posts dont really make up for the lack of participation his earlier posts entail.

also, you still owe us an actual reason for why i'm being scummy. why is stef asking jul's replacement for commentary bad exactly

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actually it's not penta's first game. [speaking of his excuse of 'its my first normal game' bothers the hell out of me too]. as for previous game with you, tajo, im going to skip my 'pay attention to the game you're actually in now goddamnit' speech and say that you'll never see me play exactly like that again unless i somehow wind up in another game with bm.

on a totally unrelated note; farside, i think you should check out my wiki :p

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and why do you think this matters, penta.

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Wait, Penta is lying about this being his first normal/them/non newbie game?

its not his first game. but it probably is his first game that isnt a newbie game. its irrelevant though.

stef; i really really dont like that post. if you dont have anything to comment on try to start something.

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shadow girl, i asked because i asked that question half-jokingly in womfia. thought i might as well through it out again

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penta, so is juls automatically scum in her others 4 games too then

shadow girl; what i did IS odd. but ive done it before. thought i might as well do it again. was really surprised to actually get counterclaims. ive never been in a game before with more than 1 miller

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penta, she quit because 'people are mean and rude.' this is a null tell. why are you pushing this as an actual scum tell.

crazy, you haven't talked much. anything else you feel like commenting on

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first off i dont like stef's unvote due to its lack of reasoning. and his general silence and refusal to comment bothers be.

second, farside, why criticize llama's attack of juls but not mine.

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so still no comments on me, farside

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soooo why exactly are you attacking llama then

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no comments then on tajo saying my questions were a trap

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he kept saying that my question was meant to imply juls should have claimed miller first post. reread that bit. hes implicitly accusing me of phrasing my question in a trapping manner. but i dont see why you think llama was setting a trap. i dont like the inconsistancy of judgement

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Why all the defense of Llama?

because your attack against him is weak. considering how badly juls was playing, llama's attack on juls was justified. i also don't see why you suspect llama but dont suspect me since we were doing the same thing [that is questioning juls to the point that juls snapped].

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which is why i'm thinking its suspicious how easily you write me off here.

[llama. for the record, i tend not to lay off the newbs just because they're newbs. i might be more tolerant of their mistakes personally and will probably explain my actions to a much greater degree, but i see no reason to treat them in a special manner because that isn't teaching them how to play the game by letting them get away with being scummy. then again, im just mean to everyone. farside can attest to this since she's neglected to mention that i've been like this in every game i've played with her.]

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Cor, so is that you saying you think he is the scummiest here then [sorry for my usual lack of question marks. keyboard still broken]

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i am still not liking penta's lack of content [and stef's lack of posting]. i think shadowgirl didnt mean the 3 millers particular to this game, but the fact that its rare for multiple millers overall.

i'm also really not seeing the case on llama. seriously.

i would also like to hear more from mana and crazy

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yay, a substance post from penta. im excited. i agree that strangercoug is being weird. you have left out his attempts to buddy up and his decision to exclude 6 people from his pool of scum candidates outright. which both still worry me.

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yet your hastiness to take people out of the lynch candidate pool still sticks with me.

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mana, because it makes no sense for farside to attack only llama for something both llama and i did. i still do not see a distinction and her attack bothers me. sounds kind of fake.

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I don't hate this game. It's just frankly one of the most complicated games i've played in so far. It takes a while to get an understanding regarding what's going on.

then please, enlighten us as to what you think is going on.

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why do you feel you needed to unvote, shadowgirl

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ummmm electra, what are these links for exactly. and who do you think is scummy and why if you say theyre all attacking each other.

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Farside, I'm still not seeing that as a trap. Looks more like pressuring the babbling/overdefensive newbie to me. So I still fail to see the issue.

I am also not a miller.

Penta, that's a really weird thing to say. Not to play out-guess-the-mod here, but do you think its possible to have people who don't know they're millers in a game with 3 who know they are...doesn't that seem a bit too bastardly to you?

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SC, where did crazy soft claim, i don't seem to recall any such thing. can you quote please.

llama; while i think most of your case is valid, im still not at all liking the not unvoting tajo thing. you continuing to bring this up makes me want to know why youre so sure of tajo.

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hmmmm....Crazy, could you please clear this up

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tajo, please actually give us a logical reason for why you think stef is scum outside of his shoddy posting rate.

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Nice moment to jump against me when I have been miller all the game.

unvote
vote; tajo

that part of your post really bothers me. we do not know this and cor is right in that your claim pretty much means nothing, its your actions that must be used to determine your alignment. we do not know if you 'have been miller all the game'. hell, i dont know what thats supposed to mean in the first place.

also, as for stef, i have reason to believe that he is genuinely distracted [other ongoing games], and while his posts here have been pretty much useless, i dont see why his replacing out is such a big scumtell for you. stef remains at null-read level because of his lack of contribution. but then again, so do a couple of other people. notably crazy. why not go after him too.

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tajo, not protecting him. just saying that if 'hes not posting here' is all you have to go on, its complete crap, since you might want to consider reading up on some of his recent posting elsewhere. i see that you have some sort of additional argument, which makes your vote less valid, but im not going to accept your argument because you make it with more certainty than possible to have at this point. was stef being useless and lurky? yes, definitely. but im reserving judgment until we get a replacement as to what it could mean because i feel that regardless of what his role is, he didnt actually bother playing at all. i regard stef as a null read at this point in time.

as to whether i think you're scum gathering unnecessary attention, i have no idea as of yet. im reserving judgment until i hear more from you, and until i can obserbve your interaction with stef's replacement, who will hopefully actually bother to play. your early certainty in a game with lots of placeholder posts sets me on edge as does your tunnelvisioning. also you still havent actually attempted to explain what was wrong with me from before. also i have very very weak reads that this moment and would generally like to hear more from a lot of people. i am noting that you didnt address the actual quote im basing my vote on. please do so.

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what do you think im misinterpreting. also in my last post.less should be more. typing while sleepy makes me less cherant

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tajo, you yourself are not confirmed in any way shape or form either

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and do you think interpreting it that way makes it all better

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id have to disagree with you. i dont think his argument of 'well i claimed miller at the beginning' is very good either, because its pretty much begging everyone to ignore him as potential scum despite the fact that we cannot be sure of his claim. it doesnt matter at this point if he is a miller or not but his constant reminder of the point that he claimed miller is getting to the point of being suspicious. he claimed, we acknowledged that he claimed, and apparently moved on to play this game as blind in regards to him, yet he cant let it go.

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what exactly am i ignoring? that we don't know anything about him? i think i've just said that myself. how do we know if its too lucky for a scum gambit? how do we know scum don't have insider information? we can't. which is exactly why tajo's play should be speaking for itself and exactly why he isn't confirmed as anything, scum or town. and his play has bothered me, and he has not yet responded to a number of my concerns [post 383] and until he does, my vote is going to sit there and rot until i get an answer from him or until someone does something worse. your defense of him right now bothers me too, actually. especially since i nowhere advocated a lynch of him like you seem to imply.

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yay! slysly!

as to the confirmed player thing, well, there might be a way. im not sure how the confirmed innocent role works when its given to an individual [not like confirmed innocent masons, but a single player given confirmed status], but i believe thats the only case and ive never seen it used.

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sly; actually there were 6 masons. i think you're forgetting my scum partner and his sk mason partner in that game. but yes. that was fun. i miss being your bestest best friend i will stop reminiscing about the joy of playing with your head in that game and get to disagreeing with you.

while on one hand it might be good to get rid of all the wifom, on the other hand, since we don't know either way, its really not at all helpful for just everyone to agree to policy lynch him because that would be a complete waste of day 1 information-wise, as argument would be limited to that. it would cut off all other lines of inquiry for the day, pretty much, and result in a lynch where instead of a real argument about his play, it would result in finger pointing on wagon positions based on an unknown.

electra; when im voting to lynch, i generally include a statement of how i think someone is scum. i have mentioned multiple times that i don't know what to think of tajo, i just want answers from him. which i still havent gotten.

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also you still havent actually attempted to explain what was wrong with me from before. also i have very very weak reads that this moment and would generally like to hear more from a lot of people. i am noting that you didnt address the actual quote im basing my vote on. please do so.

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no i think its best to lynch whoever is the scummiest at the end of today and not make policy lynch plans haphazardly.

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i have a feeling that comment from llama was to me. im voting him because of his use of his claim as a shield not because of the claim itself. and yes, tajo is right. why not comments on sly

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sly, can you stop putting words in my mouth please? thank you. i said nothing of the sort.

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sly; it is something worthy of note. that is what i agree with tajo on.

also im not liking your unnecessary town claim. you earn an

fos

from me for that.

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sly, there is never any reason to claim town unprovoked because we are all, by playing, implicitly stating we're town. and i am suspicious of anyone who decides to say stuff like 'im town' because there is no reason to do it

and please, out with your observations

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penta is right, i believe

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Can we just lynch Sly?

no. at least not at this moment. and i dont like this post from you. while sly is indeed acting rather scummy right now, we have a few awol players [like mana and crazy] and asking for a lynch right now is a bad idea because of this.

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i think i have sufficiently stated that i think his reasoning is crap.

his vote on you is a policy vote because of your claim and he wants you dead.
my vote on you is based on the fact that you're hiding behind your claim [i claimed, therefore i'm confirmed] and i want answers from you and am not ready to lynch anyone, you, sly, and everyone else included

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not 50/50 but i dont have enough of a read on you to be sure of anything. im just not liking your actions as they are suspicious. nor the way how youre still not answering 383

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i dont believe in gut.

and ive already stated, multiple times, why my vote is on you. namely you are treating yourself as confirmed and claiming that you are because of your claim. this bothers me a lot and therefore my vote stays for the time being.

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first, you didn't role claim, but you claimed town. see one of my previous posts for why this bothers me.

second what you're doing thats scummy: ignoring reason [it doesnt matter what tajo flips, since it is a null variable, it matters whether hes scummy or not] and claiming town unnecessarily.

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i see crazy still has not deigned it necessary to share his opinion on anything. this bothers me

on the penta and llama issue, i dont agree with llama's reason about the unvote, but the comment on juls does stand. my main problem with penta now is the continual claiming of newness right now [and the last post bothers me about that]. for the record, while over-reaction may be anti town its not inherently scummy

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tajo, what i want you to do would be to play the game and not hide behind your role.

farside, can we not powerrole speculate? kthnxbai

sly, how do you know that the person lynched in tajo's stead, if there is such a person, will flip town? are you admitting that you know for a fact that tajo is scum then, meaning are you scum with him

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the part where you still havent answered me

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and i dont like how youre continuing to willfully misinterpret my posts. i did not relate your hiding behind your claim to your question avoiding. you did. you asked my where i got the conclusion you werent playing, i answered. you decided the two are necessarily related. not really. i think i've made it perfectly clear that you hidin behind your claim is a whole separate thing.

as for sly, i was actually considering changing my vote to him for his last comment. but i want answers first from both him and you. the two of you are rather sure that the other i scum.

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tajo; i think you could play without mentioning your claim as much as you did, which was my criticism. and mirthworld theories are occasionally right and you know it.

sly; sooooo instead of, if you arent lying about your alignment, being a good townie and trying to convince the rest of us that you're protown, youre going to be fatalistic about it resort to a either me or him approach, which you should know is craplogic [and i know that you should know this]. how does this help the town exactly

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just lately, sc?

sly, you should know by now i lack a sense of humor. please state your 3 other suspects and why you think theyre suspicious. and i agree tajo' tunnelvisioning on stef was crap. his vote on you now is mostly reasonable though.

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he hasnt. the vote is reasonable as youre pushing craplogic

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he hasnt. the vote is reasonable as youre pushing craplogic

So are you saying it would be better to lynch me where there is a possibility that I will flip town as opposed to lynching someone who will flip scum?

Or has my logic been crap in a different way? The vote is reasonless whether I am pushing craplogic or not.

im saying that your logic is crap because of the whole policy lynch issue. a policy lynch kills information, because it is not based on scum hunting. a lynch based on scummy actions provides information. your craplogic is innately antitown because it is meant to kill discussion of actual scumminess. also you have failed to answer who your other suspects are. and now you're doing the same exact thing that bothers me about tajo. that is hiding behind your claim. 'i claimed town so i must be town and you all better believe me'

unvote
vote: sly

i believe that's l-3.

now on to crazy's post. it is a whole lot of wifom. a whole lot of unsubstantiated wifom that completely disregards the possibility of scum knowing more or having safe claims. it also doesnt actually say anything new. and i really dont like the hints at his role pm. at all.

fos;crazy

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your craplogic is innately antitown because it is meant to kill discussion of actual scumminess.

how many times have I asked for someone to offer up a case on someone other than tajo that would guarantee the lynchee be scum? no one has put one forth. i am by no means trying to kill discussion.

no one, at this point in time, can do that except if scum wants to betray a scum buddy, and you know this. there is no guarantee day 1 [or really any other day]. you're purposing an impossible scenario that effectively gluing any and all discussion to tajo, who's lynch will tell us nothing.

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tajo, regardless of how much sly's 'case' on you sucks, your 'case' on stef sucks just as much and it bothers me that you keep bringing it up. stef was seriously having rl issues with timing

and he was playing triage. this is not a tell of anything. you insisting that it is bothers me a lot.

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eh, he was active in a newbie game i was also in. said game was in lylo [its over now]. he also has cited rl issues in a game i'm modding. i would call that triage. i agree that the 'difficult' comment was bad but i think tajo is making a mountain out of a molehill with stef, especially since he was so sure of his scumminess uber early on. this however in no way excuses the fact that sly is being legitimately scummy now.

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ummmmm what exactly does their not having trackers mentioned prove? im pretty sure that cops and only cops are standard to a standard miller pm.

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llama, i know why you did it, but tajos conclusion/mind game gains nothing.

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tajo; they/you are not confirmed just because a cop is mentioned in the pm. being scum to cop investigations is the very definition of being a miller. them/you saying so isnt a confirmation because its a standard. if two of you were tracked as scum that might be essential. this isnt.

sly why is cor scummy. also is mana scummy just for the lurking or some other reason [shes been posting lots in other places. not here though and not in my game.]

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yet cor hasnt been absent. so i dont understand your point

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yet cor hasnt been absent. so i dont understand your point

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meta and margarita do not rhyme.

mod; whats the word on mana

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unvote
vote; coporate

i do not like your vote. i realize it was a long reread and such, but i love how you voted as if it was a tajo-or-sly dichotomy and you went with the bigger wagon. we have 6 days. plenty of time for you to actually state an opinion on everyone present and not just the two getting the most attention. also plenty of time for you to examine scummy actions even if they may not lead to a lynch. instead you vote straight off the bat without a reason beyond an echo of whats been going on the last few pages. could you please tell us what you think of everyone so far and then i might consider moving my vote. at the moment, your vote looks opportunistic.

sly; why are you so

certain

that any lynch other than tajo will be a mislynch.

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corporate; can you explain some of those reads please. as to why i voted you instead of fosed, i dont like oppurtunism

i also dont like tajo's attempt to suck up. nor his backtracking and saying that im right and no one is confirmed.

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i have been. you come in saying 'its one of them, so ill vote straight off the bat for one of them without examining everyone else.' now its your turn

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sorry for disappearing yesterday. needed a day off. my brain hurts.

corporate, i will lay off once i hear opinions. i have no read on you right now and would like to get one before night.

tajo, way to disregard my post.

llama, i understand why you suspect penta but why would penta be a better lynch than tajo or sly

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llama, i agree with you that penta has been scummy. but i think tajo's actions have been scummier. yet he would be a horrible lynch informationwise. i have a feeling that sly and tajo might be scum buddies. my problems with sly lie more with his certainty that any other lynch than tajo will be a mislynch not his not the rest of his nonsense.

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Soooo corporate, wheres that post you promised me.

sly, do you have any guarentee that everyone who is not tajo will flip town

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so crazy, why am i scum with penta, and if thats the case, why are you voting sly and not one of us. also, i don't believe in meta. also no comments on your cryptic non-role claim

corporate, you promised a substantial post. i don't like your egging on of the sly wagon as its a useless post and i dont like your sudden vote switch either.

mod; i'm going to be v/la tuesday and wednesday, though i will try my darndest to get on before deadline. computer has to go in for last minute repairs and theres the whole traveling to visit family thing. my apologies. but hopefully ill get use of the questionmark back soon

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Hi, computer issues solves (though now I have to relearn how to type with a shift key) and an exhausting amount of travel done with. Reading now and then collapsing in a ball.

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I do not like corporates lying about vote switching in 636 or joking this late in the game.

I do not like 640 where he backs down and doesn't comment on previous lie. (I also hate the 'I was just joking' defense.)

Shadowgirl is 100% right in 641.

I don't like Coug's unfos in 643. Calling something a joke is the worst excuse in the book. And letting someone off for it is ridiculous.

llama 646 how do you know penta is scum and sly isnt?

Don't like Sly's not claiming but now as much as pretty much every single one of corporate's posts.

I agree with corv 693.

vote:extend deadline please

I don't like corporates vote against extending in 697. Why not take advantage of it when its possible.

I mostly agree with Corv in 702 that we don't know. Also agree that one quote is suspicious.

Corporate's 706 really rubs me the wrong way.

Really don't like sly's commentless deadline vote in 709 or his lack of self defense.

Tajo, 714 who's that and why?

I don't like Corporates 716. Filler.

Conclusion; I don't like Penta's play for early stuff, don't like Tajo's play for some stuff, and don't like Sly's nonsense, but I really really really don't like Corporate's useless comments, his refusal to state a real opinion [he still has not done so despite promising], and his joking around instead of actually playing. I put my vote on him provisionally to see what happened, but his actions bother me enough that my vote will stay there and rot now.

Now to check the game I'm modding and collapse.

[Mirth]

Why the hell are you voting yourself?

This.


Also, Sly, a town claim is different from a townie claim. So please full claim.

[Mirth]

mod:I'm going to be V/LA until Dec 2. Something came up that I need to take care of. My apologies.

[Mirth]

Back from being insanely busy, rereading now.

[Mirth]

First, I'm going to

vote:corporate

SC, 752, why do you feel you should stay off tajo? Also you say its not like Llama's death strikes you, yet you mention it. Why?

tajo; Eh, think what you want. I agree Sly was pretty awful, but I think Corporate was acting more scummy toward the end there what with the snarky comments instead of game play, the refusing to post the player analysis he promised, and so on. And i'm pretty much always for deadline extensions. Especially when while a player is acting scummy and is going to be lynched I think there's someone else acting scummier that the town is ignoring.

Corporate: So I'm still waiting for that player analysis you promised. I also love you you ignore SC and Tajo's posts.

Crazy 764: Speaking of analysis, I'd like to hear commentary from you on pretty much everything so far. As to that post, you do know that some post restricted folks aren't allowed to admit post restrictions, yes? Corv is obviously post restricted. No player would fake a post restriction that complicated for that long and not slip up. This says nothing of his alignment.

Corv, 766. Case an point. Obviously post restricted. Also I think Corporate is scummier than Tajo.

Tajo 768: I dont see Corv being positive anywhere, as you seem to imply. And see above. I switched to Corporate originally fully intending to get back to Sly, but then I felt Corporate deserved my vote more so that is where it stayed.

Corv 769: My commentary on that: I think Tajo had no case on Stef to begin with. Sly came in an acted scummy, Tajo attacked him mercilessly but Tajo was already convinced that player slot was scum. His reasons for why Sly wasn't misguided suck (btw, Tajo, read Sly's play in Mini541, which is over since a long while). While Sly may have deserved votes (I repeat, I think Corporate was acting scummiest by the end of the day) Tajo had a lot of tunnelvision going for him

Crazy 770; I agree partially, since no lynch is a no information lynch.

Tajo 772: I don't like the "if you aren't scum" comment in this post. Why must Corv be the only potential scum in your little argument. You could very well be scum yourself. And you're going back to the but I claimed miller" whining here.

Electra 774: this seems disingenuous and earns an

FOS

from me. First of all, you weren't even voting and while you said you assumed Sly was town prelynch (why assume this?) you didn't vote for anyone else to deter his lynch, nor did you vote for an extension though you had the chance for both. Also no comments on SC's case?

[Mirth]

I assume Sly is town, and that he's annoyed, but Sly, this is not a protown move. Just claim, if you are vanilla, claim vanilla. Killing yourself means absolutely nothing, your pursuing tajo was misguided and your death is not going to cause a tajo lynch tomorrow.

limited access/vacation until after the weekend, sorry

This post was made at the end of day 1, 16 minutes before deadline.

As to why I'm voting Corporate, I have stated that already. Please actually read my post. Your lie here about not being around really makes me want to switch my vote to you.

SC: yet the way you phrased the post I questioned, it sounded lke he was one of your suspects. Please clarify.

[Mirth]

What do you think of Electra's last comment?

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SC why do you only say that after I specifically asked you even though you posted after I brought it up. And now I'm going to curl up and try to sleep off being sick

[Mirth]

The first.

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Corporate, being lazy is not an excuse for you not to play. Which is what you're doing.

[Mirth]

You never gave it. You are the one who is lying here. You have barely commented on anything since replacing in and your comments end of day 1 were mostly worthless. You were also against a deadline extension. I am not letting it go and I don't give a rat's behind if you vote me.

[Mirth]

There is no reason to go against a deadline extension. Especially when he wasn't participating to begin with.

[Mirth]

By lack of participation, I meant Corporate, SC. Sly possibly could have been pressured to claim were there another week or so, but Coporate spent the end of day 1 making sarcastic comments not contributing to the game. Even if one is sure that someone is scum, that is not a reason to just sit back and not play like he was doing. And I believe that by the end of that day, Corporate surpassed Sly as scummiest (see where my vote was and is) And there is never a reason to vote against a deadline extension. As to why I voted for it? I didn't vote for it because there was no reason to vote against it. I voted for it because a)I was tired as hell from travel/family and would have liked some more time to look over the threat. b)I will always try to take advantage of an extension when its offered because there is never reason to hurry a day. c) I would have preferred a Corporate lynch.

[Mirth]

Sly's scumminess was based on his bad logic and his reasoning for wanting you dead.

Corporate comes in votes Sly of the bat, saying its between you and Sly, without questioning anyone or look at anyone else's opinions, which struck me as bothersome enough to vote him to see how he'd react. How he reacted: Short reasonless post calling a bunch of people scummy yet not giving any indication of why. I ask him to discuss his reads in depth, he promises but doesnt, and asks me to unvote him in the process. (This bothers me enough to let the vote rot there a little longer. Why is he worried about my solitary vote?) He then says he doesn't have any opinions that haven't peen posted already. Well he certainly hasn't posted much of an opinion, so I don't like that post at all, and again asks me to leave him alone. He makes a bunch of inane comments, switches his vote to Tajo (bad bad bad move if he thinks Sly is scum), He makes a bunch more useless posts not contributing to the game, berating people for wanting him to be serious, his vote for no extension comes on the reason of "we already had one," Yet he actually isnt playing by this point anyway, his posts just seem like he's trying to tick away the time. And this is what bothers me.

[Mirth]

Meta is mostly meaningless. And you continue to refuse to offer a real opinion. Basically, you're saying I'm scum for attacking you for refusing to comment. This is a crap argument. If you legitimately think I'm scum and this isn't an OMGUS thing, then you need to back up your opinion on me with more than "Mirth is scum because she's attacking me for not playing." Or express your opinion on anyone else for that matter. You are not doing it. Saying you're a man of few words doesn't excuse your lack of analysis of anything.

[Mirth]

Tajo, maybe some of this may just be my absolute hatred of when people stay in a game without really contributing to it (not so much attitude as the playstyle of "ill post nonsense for the sake of not being kicked out"), but I feel that Corporate was opportunistic and doing what some athletes do when their team is ahead in the game: keep anything from happening. I thought Sly was scummy, yes, but Sly was mostly trying. He only gave up at the end. But Corporate just strikes me as worse, because he hasn't tried from the beginning. He was actively shutting down relevant conversation and this makes the alarm in my head go off. There's also the combination of Mana's non-play and the miller claim (which I'm still not sold on for any of you, actually) with that (mainly the shutting down conversation/wasting time thing).

[Mirth]

Will read and post thoughts tomorrow. Too tired now.

[Mirth]

Catching up now. (Hate being sick. Grrr.) Comments next post.

[Mirth]

Tajo, 813: I may be scum, I may not be scum. You should know better than to answer a question like that. How did you think I'd answer it?

Corporate 814: I say you're not trying because you have barely offered any real commentary on anyone. (You have 4 posts that bring up legit points. The rest of it is nonsense or analysis dodging.) Despite repeated calls for your opinion, you have primarily refused to give it. This is not playing. The deadline thing was just the icing on the cake. By "joking around" and hurrying a day end when other people were still talking, you were trying to kill discussion. So, please, kindly give your opinions on people, because otherwise this is all invalid.

Electra, 816: So no comments on what SC and Farside have said? No further defense besides "I'm wasn't paying attention"?

Corporate 819: names help, and yes, reasons, please.

Farside 821: what makes him not scummy to you?

Exchange between SG and Corporate: Meta is not an excuse for refusing to give opinions. And I agree with SG here.

Penta 830: Why exactly let Electra get off? Do you have your own reasons for suspicion of Corporate or are you just stealing mine here? Comments on Llama now being dead? Care to elaborate on SC?

Agreed with Corv that Tajo is being a hypocrite.

Look. Town should play optimally. When town doesnt play optimally situations like this (misreads) happen. Sly didnt play optimally. I misread him. He was lynched. I, death miller, and the other millers (assuming they are telling the truth, as I believe) are playing optimally claiming in early game. If scum claims miller, they dont play optimally, since it brings unnecessary attention especially early in the game when you dont need it. It can be a gambit but the damage is done. Town will obviously see you different. Now, do you see the difference? The difference is optymal play.

Sooo...could you relate this to Corporate, Tajo? Pretty please?

Corporate, why do you say you're an easy target? I'm the only one voting you.

[Mirth]

Oh, sorry for the triple post, but I would really like an opinion out of Crazy. Didn't like the post to avoid prod. Those always bug me. Going to go back to trying to sleep off the cold.

[Mirth]

Crazy, I don't care about volumn of posting, i care about content of posting. Why do yu think a Tajo lynch would b a waste before lylo? What if he acts scummy.

[Mirth]

Yet we're not talking about day 1. We're now talking about any day between day 1 and lylo. With Tajo dead, LYLO doesn't change. That is, if we do lynch Tajo, we assume LYLO at the same number of people remaining as we would if Tajo were still alive. Oh, speaking of that, somethings been bothering me.

Mod: can you confirm if the mafia is the only antitown faction, as suggested by you first post?

[Mirth]

Thats what I figured, mod. So we might have an additional SK or something around too.

Crazy, you don't seem to get my point. It doesn't matter when Tajo dies, assuming he dies, because our assumption of when LYLO is would be the same. His flip would be meaningless until the end of the game, but the conservative estimate we have to make about when LYLO happens will be regardless of whether he lives or dies.

Corv: the first post suggests there are three mafia with the whole "they got together 2 of their closest friends" thing which would put LYLO at 7 if its just mafia and all lynches are mislynches, but it might not be just mafia, as mod just said not to assume anything, so if there's an SK around, well, then it all boils down to win conditions and lynch results as to when LYLO is.

[Mirth]

Crazy, you still don't get it. If Tajo is scummy enough to be lynched at some point, it would not matter at which point he would be lynched. Lynching him at LYLO produced no information that lynching him before LYLO doesn't produce.

[Mirth]

Corporate, where am I pushing Tajo's lynch? I'm voting you. My vote has not moved off you, and if it were to move, it'd go over toward Electra. I'm just arguing that Crazy is incorrect. Also I love how you still don't offer comments.

Tajo, please give reasons for your scum picks.

[Mirth]

Corporate: I have no desire at this moment to lynch Tajo. Again, note my vote. My point is, if he is scummy, saving his lynch to LYLO to gain information would be counterproductive because presumed LYLO does not change, with or without Tajo and theres nothing to get out of lynching him at LYLO for the sole sake of lynching him at LYLO.

Crazy: I don't think anyone is 100% obvscum. And Tajo isn't that high up on my list right now. He's maybe third or fourth. I've already stated who I think is scummier.

[Mirth]

So Tajo do you actually have reasons for any of your reads, because two of your townie reads have been minimal on opinion and two of your neutral reads have been rather scummy and you have no case against me. I'm wondering if you're just randomly flipping a coin to get these.

[Mirth]

Tajo, I find it hysterical that you asked me that since you went after Stef for the most inane of reasons yesterday. I've already explained why I believe Corporate is scum and he has done nothing to convince me otherwise. What exactly is your case on me besides the fact that I think Corporate is scummier than Sly was?

Electra: Wow, that last post reeks of scumitude. Lets see: 4 pressure votes for more info and two votes of real suspicion. As to what I think, my scum list is as follows: Corporate, You (you're seriously rivaling Corporate right now), Tajo/Penta tied (I think they both are scummy to a degree, but no where near you and corporate), and Llama and Sly are dead. If you were paying attention to the day at all yesterday, you'd have noticed that I tended to agree with most of Llamas comments past the original vote on Penta for not unvoting Tajo. Now then, do you think you're doing what Corporate is accusing me of doing? Going after an easy target? And how about some more commentary on your blatant ignorance of the deadline?

Corporate: I assume you consider yourself an easy target? Why do you think this? If you can't see, I'm the one being attacked for thinking you're scummy. So how are you easy exactly? Also, how exactly have you been protown in your playing?

[Mirth]

Because you've been like this since you replaced in.

[Mirth]

Electra, maybe you could answer my questions.

Tajo, actually I absolutely loath when people try to excuse inexcusable behavior by saying "i was joking."

[Mirth]

Tajo: I believe he is.

[Mirth]

Corporate, it is not remotely funny to suggest that I'm a racist.

Tajo: I don't know who he is scum with. But he is sharing the top of my list with Electra right now. I do not get any feeling of them being scum together, but then again both of them have been dismissive, and not particularly playing, so I don't know. I really want more out of both of them. He could be scum with you, since you keep defending him, but thats a null assumption because your defense of him doesnt mean anything at the moment.

[Mirth]

I explained multiple times exactly why I think he's scum.

Farside: I have no read on her. This is pretty much standard, as I generally can't get a good read on her. Except in WOMAFIA where she was so obviously scum it hurt. As to playing, I'm actually kind of disappointed in her participation level, but I agree with most of what she has posted and unlike Corporate and Electra she does address the issues at hand when she does post. I would like to see those thoughts she promised, however. Farside is a neutral read for me.

SC I haven't thought much about, actually. I'm going to have to reread him. Can't afford a reread here until Tuesday but will do it then. SC hasn't struck me as exceptional one way or the other and at the moment is a neutral read, pending reread.

Why do you ask?

[Mirth]

sorry the weekend ran away with me. will catch up tonight or tomorrow morning.

[Mirth]

Hi guys, very very sorry for the absence. Going to catch up now, just as soon as I take my modded game out of night

[Mirth]

Farsides 922: while some of these points are valid (in my opinion the flavour and the waiting for replacement thing), I think Corv's suspicion of Tajo is warranted.

Corporate: more null-content posts. Doesn't respond to Farside's analysis.

Tajo 931: can you actually back up any of your feelings?

Corv 939: why are you giving up? Also on Sly, I agree with most of it (not the deathwish townie part. Sly was being legitly scummy, but it was rushed and he was not the scummiest). Agree with most of the rest too. The scum wont fake claim miller thing is bull.

Penta 941: so why did your vote stay there so long?

SC 944: why?

Shadowgirl: do you mean the whole Electra lying thing? Could that be it?

SC 947: Why and disagreed about Corv.

Tajo 948: well, as it stands i'm the default lynch since I have the most number of votes, but a case on me would be great.

Corporate 952: and this is exactly why my vote on him will rot no matter that Electra was lying.

Farside's comments on me:

on Penta and uselessness, that vote came right after he posted an "i agree" post with no examination of anything or facts. I don't like it.

on Sly: the post you quoted says it all. the post that came before mine was the reason.

on the rest: I dont feel my reasons are weak, and my vote on Corporate will rot. Y'all, have to be blind not to notice the fact that hes popping in, throwing in a few snarky comments and NOT CONTRIBUTING TO THE GAME. Seriously, look at his posts in isolation. He makes a grand total of 3 points that make any sense. The rest is him just posting to post.

I still think deadline might have helped with Sly a bit. Corporate is scummier because as wrong and insane as Sly's posts was, Sly was actually thinking about the game, could have been misguided, turned out he was. Corporate isn't bothering to think about the game. He's coasting along with verbal jabs and no content.

Originally I thought Mana wasn't very suspicious because of the claim, then I decided to ignore that initial opinion because claims dont mean anything. Mana doesn't clear Coporate because Mana herself wasn't cleared despite Juls.

As to the SK comment: you should know better than to say there was one kill. We dont know what else might have happened at night. But I asked this because of all the LYLO speculation about Tajo.

I stand behind my case on Corporate, regardless of how weak you think it is, and the only other person I would consider voting for is Electra. That is all.

Tajo, so can you please explain why I'm scum?

Also, I know I promised rereads but I dont think I'll have time. I shall try, but I doubt it.

mod: I'm going to be kind of VLA. personal life and computer issues killing me. I shall try to post once a day, but can't promise more.

[Mirth]

Grrrr...I had a response typed up a while ago, then comp bluescreened and crashed again. Sigh.

Farside: Actually I have expressed my issues with Electra. And am willing to switch my vote to her. But I'd prefer Corporate dead. As to the others, there's a big difference between mostly not being around and posting badly and posting consistently and posting nonsense. (this is the difference between Penta/Crazy and Corporate) Corporate is obviously following the game. He just isn't playing it. Which bothers me much much much more than someone being AWOL and coming back not to play.

Shadowgirl: I'm referring to her saying she wasn't around end of day 1. And her bad defense after that.

[Mirth]

Mirth, do you think Mana_Ku's miller claim made corporate more or less likely to be scum? Now, "can't" is a strong word, so I wouldn't say he can't be scum because of it, but seriously,

why?

Yeah, sure, it helped him in the long run, but Mana_Ku was pretty much a newbie, and I really doubt many newbies use WIFOM with claiming.

Originally I thought less. But when coupled with the fact that its been pages now with Corporate posting without expressing an opinion, I'm thinking more, as, regardless of how Corporate acts, we don't know if Mana lied until he's dead, and its a nothing to lose scenario. Corporate play eliminates any believability Mana's claim had for me, and one should never underestimate a newbie's potential for WIFOM. Do you have anything else to add? What do *you* think of Corporate?

Farside: so you think I'm scum because I have no tolerance for play that is in no way protown? Please explain this to me? Also, are you trying to suggest I'm scum with Electra?

Electra 973:

unvote
vote:Electra

The no reason to lynch thing and the giving up thing are just icing on the cake.

At this point, I wish I had two votes so I could vote for both of them.

Shadowgirl: please explain to me how Corporate is an easy target if I am the soul person who wants him dead?

[Mirth]

Oh, I forgot to ask, since I'm the default lynch at deadline, and deadline is in 3 days, should I claim?

[Mirth]

SC, what is the case on me exactly? And what's the case on Corv for that matter?

My claim: I'm the doctor and last night I protected Corv since he's the least scummy of you lot by far.

[Mirth]

As to why Corv, because it was a choice between Llama and Corv for me as most obviously townie, and I thought going for the one with the post restriction is safer, since scum seem to think post restriction = halfway to confirmed town.

Breadcrumbingwise, no. I hate being the doctor. Really really hate it. It's one of my least favourite roles. And I get killed early on in the game often enough as it is, so if the town can spot my breadcrumbs, so can scum. Closest I came was here with the second to last line:

Yet we're not talking about day 1. We're now talking about any day between day 1 and lylo. With Tajo dead, LYLO doesn't change. That is, if we do lynch Tajo, we assume LYLO at the same number of people remaining as we would if Tajo were still alive. Oh, speaking of that, somethings been bothering me.

Mod: can you confirm if the mafia is the only antitown faction, as suggested by you first post?

and the subsequent post about the possibility of an SK. Then I thought better of giving more than that away.

[Mirth]

Damn...now i need to go back to the drawing board and reread this whole game since i've obviously been completely wrong. Seriously, wtf?

For the record, if it wasn't obvious already, I protected Corv again.

Tajo, 1010: I answered question 1. I thought it was between the two of them, and while I don't think post restrictions = insta townie, I thought Corv was consistently protown. I thought Llama was also protown. But I've seen scum target the post restricted player before, so I picked Corv.
2. The only game I breadcrumbed in was Shrek Mafia. And that didn't help any since there were 4 doctors anyway. After that I never did it again, consciously.
3. I didn't breadcrumb doctor in either WOMFIA or one of my recent newbie games (you can check my wiki for that, all my games are listed with roles and such). I did make a mistake and claim too early in that game. But the only game I did breadcrumb in was Shrek.
I don't understand the rest of your post. please rephrase.

Crazy 1011: can you please elaborate on any of your statements? Since you only decided to attack me yesterday when it was me or Electra, and didn't provide much in the way of reasoning. Throw out a case on me please.

SC 1012: I already claimed. For the record, I'm not a fan of mass claim. If we have any useful roles out there, I'd prefer they kept silent until they had something to add that would help for sure.

SC 1014: Why Corv?

Tajo 1015: Why those two?

Corv 1016: Bleh. I think the claim is premature and I'm not sure how I feel about this. I don't like the investigation on Llama, but I still think Corv has been consistently protown, even if a too townie investigation is craplogic. Also were you faking your post restrictions then? Are you still a cop or did you lose your power claiming? What makes you think you're sane though and why did you want to flavour claim day 1?

ShadowGirl 1022: I pretty much advertised that yesterday, but see above, as if it weren't obvious already.

SC 1023: soooo any reason besides a bit of crap logic as to why you dont like the claim?

Shadowgirl 1024: this question almost made me facepalm. No really. Tajo comes up guilty regardless of whether he's miller or scum so thats like throwing away an investigation.

Farside, Tajo 1041: I explained this already. In this post even. As for my flavour, well, if y'all want me to claim it, I will, but I don't think it will help town if I spit it all out (there's a reason I didn't and still don't want to). Let's just say that unlike Corv, I'm not faking mental illness and there was no sneaking in involved.

SC 1042: I would know this how exactly? I don't believe in meta and I'm not going to start playing based on it?

I totally need a reread. Hopefully after I get back home.

Mod: I'm gonna be gone all of Tuesday for certain. A day full of travel.

[Mirth]

Full claim-wise, I will do it if two other people besides Tajo specifically ask for it. But I don't think it's a good idea. Look at my last post in regards to claiming and think about it. What am I trying to avoid having to say?

Tajo, I dont understand either post 1044 or 1045. What are you asking for?

I don't think I buy Crazy's claim just yet. Going to go back and look at his breadcrumbs again. Something just seems off about it. Hmm...

Corv, you're still a cop? Curiouser and curiouser...

[Mirth]

It is off, SC. I can't argue with you there. But that's not what I'm getting at. Read that one post again.

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Farside, I'll spit it out if one more person asks me. I don't think saying it will help the town any, though. Obviously, you have not read what I have already said.

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SG, I don't think it will help the town any, but there is a way it can still hurt the town. Not necessarily, but I don't want to risk it. If y'all decide I should, I will say it, but as it stands, I don't feel giving up this bit of info will be helpful. I've hinted at what my flavour says, and I feel that saying it explicitly will not be a good thing. I can tell you what my flavour doesn't say, if that helps any. I don't know if I'm a "weak doctor" or "strong doctor," no indication of either in my PM. I am pretty sure I'm not a Somnambulant Surgeon, ala that worst role ever game. As to what specifically my pm says, well, again, look back at my clues.

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Fine. Since I said I would do it if people explicitly asked. I don't see how this will help the town any, but fine. Paraphrased, obviously.

I was once a great doctor. Then I had a breakdown from working too hard. Wound up in the asylum. When I saw that there were killers on the loose, I decided to put my skills to good use, hoping that they're not too rusty.

This is as explicit as I'm going to get. Maybe now y'all will finally realize why I didn't want to share, since y'all ignored what I said about not sneaking in.

And now I'm going to go back to trying to fix my computer and hoping it doesn't blue screen again.

[Mirth]

If you are a cop, then you're probably completely paranoid. But I'm not sure I buy this claim. If you have a night 1 guilty on Corv, why didn't Penta pursue it day 2? After all, lynching a guilty is a only way of testing sanity, is it not? Yet the only person Penta attacked was SC. In his post 62, he mentions wanting to keep a closer eye on Corv, but he also says that he doesn't feel the case that exists on Corv is any good. So yeah, this bothers me quiet a bit.

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Farside, maybe you should actually trying reading what my flavour says. Jeez, I'm not going to spell it out for anyone any more than its already spelled out.

Kor, who said anything about Penta claiming day 2? He had a chance to push a Corv lynch without claiming. He didn't. He attacked SC instead. If there are sanity issues he didnt attempt to test them.

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sadly the only reasonable excuse for why I have a jacket would have been in the event we had no doctor. However the more I tihnk about it Mirth doesn't sound like a 100% up to date doctor.

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner.

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Farside, I have said I don't know if I'm a "weak" doc. I don't know if I die is I target a mafia member. I said I'm rusty.

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I hope now y'all see why I didn't want to full claim. I really don't think I'm a killing doc, since I don't have anything in my PM to suggest that I can hurt my patients (and Corv survived two of my protects), but Kor is pretty much right in that I've been lead to believe I'm not 100% effective, and what the means is beyond me. I also need a reread, hopefully my computer will stop crashing long enough for me to do one tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

[Mirth]

Tajo, when did I become a killing doc?

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Tajo, I interpret rusty to mean that I'm probably not 100% effective. Which is why I didn't want to claim it.

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I disagree there. Scum knowing that I'm not 100% is not a good thing.

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Tajo, there is no way that explaining that will help the town. I'll tell you when the game is over.

[Mirth]

Tajo, I still say I did a bad thing by claiming. I am not going to compromise on this.

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Oh, I missed this page: Corv, I think he's paranoid and not insane because insane would be way too easy. Once you mislynch one person, you know to flip your results. If you're paranoid your results are useless. I just think it would be more in line with the game.

Tajo, do you have any cases at all?

[Mirth]

Tajo, youve never had a case on me to begin with. As for me having a case, both my prime suspects flipped town. I don't know what to think right now.

[Mirth]

I'm a she. And you still dont have a case.

[Mirth]

I'm going to try to reread this tomorrow.

[Mirth]

Rereading. On Tajo's "case":

Stef wasn't being all that scummy to begin with. Tajo decided he was scum for no reason and kept pushing, pretty much basing his "case" on Stef being AWOL, which had to do with out of game reasons.
Sly, well, Sly was scummy. Maybe I didn't push him hard enough to appease Tajo, but considering that Tajo already decided Sly must be scum because Stef must be scum, I don't think Tajo has the perspective on this issue. I think I pushed enough there.
Corporate, you may argue til you're blue in the face, but I maintain that he was scummy in that he was doing NOTHING. Not protown behavior. Just sitting back. I apparently was wrong about him, but if he wasn't NKed I'd still have been pushing for a lynch on him today.
As to not playing like I played in AA, this isn't a remotely valid argument.

Now back to doing out of game stuff and rereading this headache.

[Mirth]

Mirth

Stef wasn't being all that scummy to begin with. Tajo decided he was scum for no reason and kept pushing, pretty much basing his "case" on Stef being AWOL, which had to do with out of game reasons.

Not true. My case against Stef was that he said this game was hard and used that as a reason to not post. This game isnt conventional but it isnt hard. Tthen he came back with a horrible vote for SG and said he was testing her.
Why dont you look at the reasons I gave before posting lies?

You are the one posting lies here. He may have said the game was hard, but he as legitly AWOL. It was obvious he was playing triage with him games, and you ignored that completely.

Sly, well, Sly was scummy. Maybe I didn't push him hard enough to appease Tajo, but considering that Tajo already decided Sly must be scum because Stef must be scum, I don't think Tajo has the perspective on this issue. I think I pushed enough there.

Mirth, really? How many lies can I find in this paragraph? First, Sly wasnt scum because Stef acted scummy. I made a case. Check 508 in page 21. Stop lying! Second, you changed your vote from a player full of scumtells and a crap case(you admitted that) to someone that didnt have scumtells.

Look back at your own play Tajo. You were at his throat from the get go, before it became obvious Sly was off on Mars with his theory. Second, I don't believe in scum tells, but not playing reeks of scumminess much more to me than does spouting utter and complete nonsense. A way of staying in the game, not being accused of lurking, but not contributing in the least.

Mirth, whats the difference between Stef and Corpo?
Also, what do you think of farside's contradictions regarding corporate?

Stef simply wasn't around. Corpo was, posting actively, but posting nonsense.
As to Farside, I don't see much of a contradiction there. To me it just looks like she was fed up with Corpo. I don't see how saying she didn't think he was scum but his play still sucked is a contradiction to you, since part of your case on me is based on that very premise.

[Mirth]

I don't believe in scum tells, but not playing reeks of scumminess much more to me than does spouting utter and complete nonsense.

*faints*

Would you like the smelling salts?

I should probably clarify that I don't consider crap!logic and nonsense to be the same thing, and I don't consider lurking or going AWOL as lynchable offenses, but when you compare Sly's play with Corporate's, the above statement stands.

[Mirth]

Still rereading. Sorry this is taking forever. On Crazy's post I don't understand why the need to link himself to Tajo.

[Mirth]

Farside and Tajo are correct. Since SC unFOSed after Tajo explained his issues with me an before his explanation of Farside. I missed that the first couple times I looked back cause my eyes are starting to give out. I believe the word here isn't chronological by anachronistic, SC.

Also no comments about how its really really weird that Crazy is trying to link himself to Tajo? No protown reason to do this in the least, and makes no sense anyways.

[Mirth]

I am now halfway done with my read. This is taking way way longer than I thought but my eyes are giving out on me. I shall try my darndest to finish it tonight, but I doubt it, since I have to take a break from reading after every page.


Some questions (about very very early stuff)
-in the beginning Penta was reluctant to believe Tajo's claim and suggested he might be a townie who only thought he was a miller. Kor, what are your thoughts on this? Anything in your PM about it?
-in the miller flavour debate, Mana mentions doing stuff and night, and Juls mentions acting suspicious. SG, can you clarify this a bit?
-Crazy, in post 87, mentions the possibility of 4 millers. Then he spend something like 10 pages neither confirming nor denying his status. Crazy, what are your thoughts on this.

Going to get dinner now. Then maybe I'll read more of this.

[Mirth]

mod: im having computer issues. i might lose access til i can get to another computer tuesday. i dont know. just a warning if i disappear

[Mirth]

No. just wanted to know why he thought that

[Mirth]

I have finished rereading. And I found something very interesting. Crazy attempts to link himself to Tajo pretty much the whole game, and Tajo spends most of the game insisting Crazy is town despite little actual playing, poor commentary, and oppurtunism. Hmmm...

[Mirth]

And you continue to take me out of context and push nothing. No comments on Crazy?

[Mirth]

I want to ask you a question, Korlash can also answer, why is Crazy scum?

Look at his play. Tell me why he's town.

And Ive been wondering all this time, why is Coug still alive?
Coug is scum.

Unvote Vote : SC.

...wait. WTF, what? Whatever happened to "die mirth die"? And that was still going on in the previous post.

[Mirth]

So, tell me, Tajo, when did you get so desperate that you're basically trying to start a wagon on anyone who isnt you?

Farside may be the third through process of elimination. You or Crazy are the best lynch for actual actions.

[Mirth]

Nope, SG. No indication of anything.

[Mirth]

You decided I wasnt town on no evidence day 1, so I dont see what it matters

[Mirth]

Unofficial Votecount, since I'm sick of waiting for one (the last one was Jan 5, 7 pages ago.) Someone please check it.

farside22 (0)
Crazy (2) sc, kor
StrangerCoug (2) farside, tajo
ShadowGirl (0)
Korlash (0)
Mirth (0)
Corvuus (0)
Populartajo (0)


Not Voting (4): Crazy, ShadowGirl, Mirth, Corvuus,

[Mirth]

Corv, Crazy did breadcrumb. His breadcrumbs are what make his claim look bad. Like the whole "(or 4) *cough*" thing when refering to millers and the sucking up to Tajo.

[Mirth]

I think she could be scum with you and Crazy, Tajo, due to POE. But I don't put too much stock in this yet, because she hasnt really done anything scummy on her own (except chew Llama out).

[Mirth]

Lets see. First you decided I'm scum for no reason at all, and spend all game pushing that, while distorting my words and accusing me of stuff I didn't do. Then you decided Stef was scum cause he went AWOL. Then you decided I'm scum with Farside on no evidence. Then we got to endgame and you, after pushing both these noncases, decided to go for SC. Then you started to get desperate again and suggest Farside. Now you're pretty much playing the "lynch anyone who isnt me" game, and you're spent the whole game saying Crazy is town, whereas his play has not been protown and his claim reeks, but you believe him. And, you still won't look critically at Crazy. Oh and the whole hiding behind your flavour thing. And Crazy trying to confirm you through his flavour. I think that pretty much sums it up. I might make an actual case with quotes and such later, but not right now. Need to read a game I replaced into and have to take care of modding stuff for my bastard mini.

[Mirth]

Corv, he doesn't have any that help his argument. He just latches onto Tajo and goes "look at him, his flavour confirms mine"

[Mirth]

Tajo, I never said I wasnt a weak doc. I said I dont know. I don't know the mod's contingencies here.

[Mirth]

Tajo, I never said I wasnt a weak doc. I said I dont know. I don't know the mod's contingencies here.

So what role are you?

I will repeat this yet again. I am a doctor who is "rusty." I do not know what this means. It could mean I'm 50/50, it could mean I'm weak, it could mean any combination of effectiveness that mod thought up. You are just giving me a headache now. Between you and the blasted newbie games, I might have to take up Aspirin. Or hard liquor.

[Mirth]

I think I'm 50/50 nonkilling (nothing in there about hurting anyone, but I could be wrong), but I havent the foggiest notion if I'm weak or not.

[Mirth]

If I do, I don't know about, Tajo.

[Mirth]

The longer this goes on, the more I'm thinking Crazy/Tajo. Especially since Tajo isnt even addressing the problem with Crazy.

[Mirth]

Crazy, 2 things, if I am a 50/50 killing doc and dont know it, well, I protected Corv 2 times. Do the math. Second, the whole if I protect the right cop thing is null and void if sum decide not to go for a cop. Since Corv can be naive and Kor can be paranoid, so it might be a null and void scenerio.

[Mirth]

Farside, why do you think so only now?

[Mirth]

Farside, this discussion of Crazy's crap claim has been going on for pages. Why vote now?

And I agree with Corv that we should, for the time being, hold off discussing lynching or nolynching.

BTW we can rule a few scum teams of 3 based on the facts that this day is still ongoing, despite the fact that a lynch has been possible for some time (not individuals, mind you, just certain combinations) I'll get to those when I take care of my bastard game.

[Mirth]

Okay, so, the following scum combinations can be ruled out based on opportunity to hammer. (Because scum can pretty much be guaranteed a kill if they dont go after the cops)

Since I posted a votecount in 1314, the following groups could have ended the game:
Corv, Mirth, Kor (on SC)
SG, Corv, Kor (on SC)
SG, Corv, Mirth (on either Crazy or SC)
SG, Mirth, Kor (on Crazy)
SG, Tajo, Mirth (on Crazy)
SG, Tajo, Corv (on Crazy)
Farside, SG, Mirth (on Crazy)
Farside, SG, Tajo (on Crazy)
Farside, SG, Corv (on Crazy)
Farside, Tajo, Mirth (on Crazy)
Farside, Tajo, Corv (on Crazy)
Farside, Mirth, Corv (on Crazy)

And that rules out 12 possibilities. Since I believe with 8 alive there are 56 possibilities probalistically, there are 44 left. Not that it helps any.

[Mirth]

BTW we can rule a few scum teams of 3 based on the facts that this day is still ongoing, despite the fact that a lynch has been possible for some time (not individuals, mind you, just certain combinations) I'll get to those when I take care of my bastard game.

Theres no need. The list is rather small and can be summed up in the phrase "One of Me, Coug, or Crazy has to be scum" meaning any three paty scum tam that does not include at least one of us is nixed. In addition, any scum team that includes me must also include Corv under the basis that I did not use my counterclaim as a way to get him lynched.

So you can make a list of impossible scum teams but i think it's more helpful and quicke to just say what I just did.

This is not necessarily true.

[Mirth]

No, Tajo. That is updated. All the Crazy wagon tells us is if Crazy is town (doubtful) there are pairs of people who cannot be scum partners. I can list those out if you want, but its not as good as the 3 person thing.

If Crazy is town, then
SG and Mirth cannot be scum partners
SG and Tajo cannot be scum partners
SG and Corv cannot be scum partners
Tajo and Mirth cannot be scum partners
Tajo and Corv cannot be scum partners
Corv and Mirth cannot be scum partners

but this is if and only if Crazy is town which I dont think is true

[Mirth]

It is perfectly possible to have a different scum team (likiliness and possibility are not the same), you and Cov would not necessarily be scum together (I dont want to get into the WIFOM here).

[Mirth]

Noooo. I meant that the "me SC or Crazy" think may be likely but does not exclude other possibilities. You if you are scum separately of Corv might have thought it best to not get him lynched cause youre not squeaky clean yourself. Corv as scum might have had insider info. We don't know any of this. So the statement you made is not necessarily true

[Mirth]

Cause I think everyone except Tajo thinks he's scum?

[Mirth]

Can anyone explain to me why they think Crazy isn't lying scum fake claiming at this point?

I thought the general consensus was that he was.

It was.

[Mirth]

Yes. I think we're all waiting on Crazy to come in here and start talking.

[Mirth]

Vote: Deadline extension

No debate here. I want to hear from Crazy. I'm pretty sure that my vote will be landing on him today instead of no lynch, but I want to be absolutely certain of this.

[Mirth]

More than I am now. How certain are you, Tajo?

[Mirth]

Tajo, I'd just like to hear Crazy explain his miller softclaim yet again. I'm not 100% against a nolynch. Normally, I would actually be for it, since its best statistically. But I'm rather sure that Crazy is scum and can't reconcile myself to the idea of a nolynch when I think someone is scum. Basically, I think its doubtful that Crazy could say anything that would convince me to vote nolynch over him, but I still want to be sure.

[Mirth]

Cause I want to be as close to 100% sure as possible?