Mini 699: Insane Asylum Mafia: Game Over

[populartajo]

vote: Populartajo

I want to know why he was concerned about being scum in this game.
(See theme game queue)

Pretty much because if Mirth and Llama are town then the scum are pretty fucked up in this game.
They know why.
So Ive read some games and some theory about this but the optymal play in mi situation is to claim miller.
Kaybaythx.

[populartajo]

EBWOP

Clicked submit instead of preview.

Not so randome vote: Forbiddanlight.

She knows why.

[populartajo]

Yes, I am a miller. Why would I joke about it. And I voted forb for giving me such an awful role. She has apologized, though.

[populartajo]

OMG Simulposting.
How could you miss a claimer mill?

FoS:Mirth and Pentadragon.

[populartajo]

However I must ask how we can know that pop is telling the truth?

Because it would be totally ridiculous for me to attract all attention in the random stage if I werent telling the truth. I just checked some games and I believe its a consensus that claiming miller ASAP is the optimal play in my case. Scum now has to pick between NKilling me or having a semiconfirmed almost vanilla in town.
And here is the Flavour.

Paraphrasing and using the first person.

I am a miller. I managed to have a gun but sadly it's broken. There could be cops but they will see me as mafia. And if I were to die, people will look at my things and due to my useless gun I will be remembered as mafia.

I wanted to mess with scum's mind before the day is over but I think its better to give you all the package. I am a death miller. That means Ill flip scum if killed.
So thats why I hate Forb, because she gave me this WTF role. I must say, though, that Im playing it as the general consensus establish.

[populartajo]

I was visionating a possible scenario at the end of the day after a lynch. Scum are likely to kill me to get rid of an almost confirmed player so I was going to claim death miller in twilight just to make them really think about my kill.

[populartajo]

Unvote, Vote Populartajo

I am a miller...and while there could obviously be more than one miller and your flavor seems to indicate death miller, our flavors are not similar in the least. In fact, mine doesn't really have any flavor at all, it is more or less a definition of what a miller is.

Well, Im intrigued by this post. I dont think that our flavors should fit because you're saying that you're only a miller. But its interesting how there is not flavour in your role. This could get problematic but I think everybody else has flavour in their roles, right?
Also, WTF 2 millers? If true, then I dont imagine how did FL balance this.
I dont think Juls is scum, though. It would be totally ridiculous to out himself at this point (D1) to lynch me.
Unless he had the time to craft an incredible gambit.
So dont know what to make of this.
We can start by the flavour to know if he's lying. Everybody has flavor in their roles, right?

[populartajo]

Uhhh the townie PM has flavor or there is something Im missing?
And I said that its very unlikely that Juls is scum outing himself to lynch me unless he tried an incredible gambit. I only want to know why there isnt flavor in his role and only a role explication when my PM and the townie PM has some flavor in it?

FOS: SC.

That last post is a big misinterpretation of what is happening here.

[populartajo]

WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!

[populartajo]

Mirth, are you saying that Juls had to claim in his first post?

[populartajo]

Okay Im going with farside here. Lets start scumhunting and be careful when facing the claimed people.
Mirth, I still dont get why did you ask Juls to claim in her first post. What did you want to accomplish with that?

[populartajo]

i agree that of the three claims, juls's is the most suspicious. also to bring up what cor said awhile back, it is theoretically possible for 2 scum to both claim miller, when one dies, the other is 'confirmed.' hmmm...

juls, you did not claim in your first post. why

There's something I dont like in that imposed question. Like it was bad to not to have claimed in her first post when it was pretty possible that it was the first time Juls had interacted with the miller role.
And I think I missed it, why is Juls the most suspicious one?

[populartajo]

Unvote Vote:Mirth

Something feels different about her.

FOS:Corvuus

Crazy idea but maybe to compensate the fact that I am a death miller and apparently there are other two, one scum has that incredible post restriction. Also, didnt like the speed of that vote and unvote in llama.

[populartajo]

different from what exactly tajo

From your previous game with me. Dont know what yet. Yes, something called gut and the fact that I still dont like how you implied that Juls had to claim miller in her first post when she probably wasnt aware of the optimal miller play.

If we agreed to 'table' the miller plot,
you using your 'miller status' counts for squat.
None of millers are 100% confirmed to me,
and I think arguing based on that 'fact' is shady; hope you agree.
FoS: populartajo

I would be very surprised if any of the millers are lying. Claiming miller puts you in a difficult situation since you're bringing unnecessary attention when you havent done anything scummy. Scum wouldnt probably counterclaim miller until necessary and D1 isnt precisely the best time to do it.
..............
Nice FoS there. Wonder what makes me different from Llama and why you voted him and you just FOS me.

[populartajo]

Juls, grow some balls.
Woops.
Dont know if that was town getting frustrated or scum getting caught. I really had a town read from her and I hate to see her replaced.
You should be ashamed, Llama.
Just kidding.
This is a game, Juls. There are a million players like Llama and Mirth, regardless of allignment. They dont want to make you look dumb. They either want to know if you're telling the truth or want to bring decent reasons to (mis)lynch you.

[populartajo]

Assuming both of them are town, the problem with Mirth and Llama's playstyle is that they think that everyone should act how they act as town.

[populartajo]

Unvote

Welcome ShadowGirl.. nice to play with you again. What do you think about Juls's reaction that led to her replacement? Do you think it was scummy? Why or why not?

Unvote Vote: Stef

No other comments? And you want someone else to decide for Jul's reactions?

[populartajo]

Penta is prob town.

[populartajo]

Mirth I am as sure as I was about you being town in our previous game.
You see, mafia isnt an absolute game. I say Penta is prob town for his reactions as I said you were prob town for your reactions in that game. (IIRC, being confused at the beginning of the game)
For example, Penta was the only one to jokesuspect me for being the last to confirm. Its a weak scumtell and its extremely far to be 100% effective but it shows efforts of scumhunting, something we know scum doesnt do.
Also, as its his first game I wouldnt be very worried about him not knowing how to react, specially in this game. Something you call useless.

Llama, I have a question. Why did you not at least FoS Mirth for initially missing the claim? Also:

Again, this shows efforts of valid scumhunting.
Take in count that I said prob town because Im not always right. At least I was right about you.
..................
About you. You know gut isnt objective and its pretty . Its just a feeling that you arent playing like your last game. Im going to reread later and try to explain this. To understand me fully, though, you'd have to be me and have had to play that game with Mirth. Ill try my best.
..................
Now, Stef. Im bothered why he hasnt commented anything about the game and his last comment is asking for someone else to do it. Do I need to explain more?

[populartajo]

Wait, Penta is lying about this being his first normal/them/non newbie game?

[populartajo]

I haven't contributed yet because i don't consider i had anything to comment on.. Call it scummy or whatnot. However when i do post and ask a question to start a discussion in a pretty good direction ( isn't it in your opinion? ) you attack me? Why? It wasn't a vote-worthy reason.

LOLWTF?
This must be like the tenth time you are facing three claimed millers, right?

[populartajo]

I agree. I was just trying to pressure ShadowGirl. Failed so far.. so..

Unvote

Mmmmm. I dont like this.

[populartajo]

Stef really must hate this game. He is posting like crazy in the other ones.

[populartajo]

I don't hate this game. It's just frankly one of the most complicated games i've played in so far. It takes a while to get an understanding regarding what's going on.

What are you talking about? I understand that there have been 3 millers claims but the game is pretty normal for scumhunting barring this FL crazy thing.
.................
I was thinking in something. Since we have like 3 claimed millers here would it be good that all players claim if they are millers or not?

[populartajo]

Yes, I do think its a good idea that everybody claim if they are millers or not. I dont want posterior "new miller" scenarios.

[populartajo]

I want the other miller to confirm this.

[populartajo]

Yeah riiight.

Confirm vote:Stef.

[populartajo]

This game isnt hard, farside. Three/four millers are indeed new but they dont make the game difficult at all. I bet that I catched him lurking (since he was posting in his other games) and couldnt come out with a good post after it.

[populartajo]

Corvuus stop saying that I am not a miller because of all the millers I am the most confirmed one.
I am trying something here. Ill tell you when Mana and prob Crazy come up with the answer.

[populartajo]

tajo, please actually give us a logical reason for why you think stef is scum outside of his shoddy posting rate.

This game isnt hard,

farside

Mirth. Three/four millers are indeed new but they dont make the game difficult at all. I bet that I catched him lurking (since he was posting in his other games) and couldnt come out with a good post after it.

[populartajo]

First of all, I didn't say you weren't a miller.

Tajo! Why do all of your posts seem like you are not a miller?

What is the difference?

As for you trying something? I laugh and call your bluff.

Thx for let me trying it.
Llama initiated; not you. You saying later is nonsense and I had enough.
What are you talking about?

I don't consider ANY miller cleared at all.

Nice moment to jump against me when I have been miller all the game.

FOS: Corvus.

[populartajo]

I should preview.

First of all, I didn't say you weren't a miller.

Tajo! Why do all of your posts seem like you are not a miller?

What is the difference?

As for you trying something? I laugh and call your bluff.

Thx for let me trying it.

Llama initiated; not you. You saying later is nonsense and I had enough.

What are you talking about?

I don't consider ANY miller cleared at all.

Nice moment to jump against me when I have been miller all the game.

FOS: Corvus.

[populartajo]

I want Mana and Crazy (if he claims miller) to answer to my post before I say anything.
Coorvus, how do you think plans work?
You dont tell the people who need to answer something what they are supposed to answer.
Shadowgirl trust me in this one.

[populartajo]

Your posts betray you. It isn't me saying "miller, you are not".
It is your posts ignoring your miller-ness that is caught.

When did I ignore I was a miller? I have been saying all the game I am a miller. You were suggesting twice that I didnt seem a milller. Well, tell me Shakespeare, how is that not telling that you dont think I am a miller.

[populartajo]

Mirth does my behavior tell that I am scum?
After my claim, the flavour do you still think I am scum gathering unnecessary attention in this game?
................
Stef is a different case than Crazy since he said that he wasnt posting because he thought the game was hard. Tell me everyone, does this game seem hard to you?
His first post with information is asking for someone else (shadowgirl) to come up with an answer to a question that itself feels off.

Welcome ShadowGirl.. nice to play with you again. What do you think about Juls's reaction that led to her replacement? Do you think it was scummy? Why or why not?

And here you see that he wasnt distracted, he didnt know what to comment on.

I haven't contributed yet because i don't consider i had anything to comment on

@Shadowgirl: I don't buy the whole "too much pressure" bit simply because there wasn't enough pressure to warrant such a reaction. It strikes me like newbie scum not handling the pressure of getting caught.

Vote Shadowgirl

Going for the easy target Juls/Shadowgirl.

I agree. I was just trying to pressure ShadowGirl. Failed so far.. so.. Unvote

Nice backtrack there. More proofs that he is suffering to come up with something and at the same time not lurking.
However, after that back to lurking mode. Promises and more promises of posts that never came. I bet he was lurking not knowing what to make of this miller crazy situation. He took the easy way. "Fuck it, he said, lets get a replacement."
So can we conclude that he was lurking? Why did he ask for a replacement if he is active in his other games? The most possible answer is that he was scum and couldnt come up with something decent after I catched him lurking.
..........
Mirth, the almighty scumhunter, why are you protecting this player you also didnt like some time ago?

[populartajo]

If you say so Tajo. ;P

This doesn't rub me the right way for some reason.

I know what you are thinking. Chill. We are friends from another game.

[populartajo]

Ongoing game.

[populartajo]

People you have to start diferentiating between buddying up and being friendly.

[populartajo]

Aww, farside. Let me make some friends. /sad face.

[populartajo]

I think that the existence of massive millers proves that I am a miller.
And of all the actual and possible posterior miller claims, Juls/Shadowgirl's is the one I most believe.

[populartajo]

It seems improbable to me that Juls as scum would have outed herself to counterclaim me that early. Too much unnecessary attention for little benefit. With the little we know about her it also seems improbable that she could have crafted a gambit of that size. Again for little benefit.
Finally I believe she thought that I was lying with the flavour thing and really thought that he had catched scum. We know now that she had a different interpretation of flavour than the majority of us.
In the other hand, ManaKu can have had the time to prepare a miller gambit but I also partially doubt that she is also scum for the first reasons cited above.
So what I am trying now is to fully confirm their miller status.

[populartajo]

Why are you posting this if you know that I said I was going to wait Crazy.
What is the poiny?
Mirth, what questions are you talking about?

[populartajo]

About you. You know gut isnt objective and its pretty . Its just a feeling that you arent playing like your last game. Im going to reread later and try to explain this. To understand me fully, though, you'd have to be me and have had to play that game with Mirth. Ill try my best.

That and the lack of time to do it properly.
Tomorrow, kay?
I dont know what to say about Slysly. He is basically acussing me of scum because I claimed death miller, right?. I dont know what else makes me scum.
Found interesting also that he concentrated in me (Juls and Mirth to a lesser extent) and left another players out of his analysis. He obviously wasnt looking for scummy behaviour, he was just looking for someone to be lynched and, must say, for the lamest reason ever.
Obv I am still happy with my Stef/SLy vote.

[populartajo]

Llama, I find funny that you commented something is bad but you left out the guy who explicitly did it.

FOS: Llama.

[populartajo]

Can we just lynch Sly?

[populartajo]

Thats weird, Mirth. I would totally expect you to be all over him right now. More pressure on him, dont you think? I obv dont want a lynch right now.
Could you explain clearly the differences between your vote and his?

[populartajo]

I thought so. Do you think I am more possible town, scum, 50/50?

[populartajo]

Then why do I deserve a vote if you dont have enough of a red on me?
What actions are suspicious besides what I already told you about the lack of time to answer 383 properly?
Also, do you think gut can be explained concisely?

[populartajo]

Llama, why Penta over Sly?
Ive read your case and I think that he cant be compared to what Sly is doing currently.
People with no votes and/or voting someone that isnt likely to be lynched, have to post inmediately if my lynch is better than Sly's.
The same for Mirth and Coorvus.

and ive already stated, multiple times, why my vote is on you. namely you are treating yourself as confirmed and claiming that you are because of your claim. this bothers me a lot and therefore my vote stays for the time being.

What do you want me to do? Claim something I am not and treat myself like I dont have the role I actually have?
Mirth, come on.

[populartajo]

Mirth I AM playing the game. Where did you get the conclusion that I wasnt playing the game?

[populartajo]

How not answering a gut question is related to the assumption you made about me "hiding" behind my miller claim?
Doesnt make sense to me.
And thats exactly what I am talking about. You feel different. You were more logical in Ace Attorney Mafia. Your last post really makes me wonder. Also you were/are attacking weak cases (Llama's vote, my case) that have deserved votes but you are giving Sly only a fos. I would expect you to be all over him.
Also I still dont like how you implied tat Juls had to claim in her first post. That was a loaded question, IMO.
That is what feels different, Mirth.

[populartajo]

I thought you were relating them, my bad.
Then, besides me not answering that question, do you think I was not playing the game and I was only hiding behind my claim?
That seems to be the sourcde of my confusion.
Are you really thinking that Sly and myself are scumpartners? That only makes sense in Mirthworld, honestly.

[populartajo]

Sly is amazing how you cant make a case on someone besides me. On 20 pages. There arent other suspects in your book other than me. The worst thing is that your case is incredibly weak. This further proves my theory that you didnt reread the game looking for scumtells, that you only looked for the easiest to lynch and and that you are pushing this because backtracking in this exact moment would be worse.

[populartajo]

Sly, it would be extremely retarded to claim death miller if I were scum. It would be a silly gambit because sooner or later you will be suspected. It gathers unnecessary attention since the beginning of D1.
I never said I went to the wiki, check your facts. I checked some games and the strategy in some threads after I got my death miller role PM. What makes more sense to you? A death miller figuring out what he should make of his PM or a silly scum checking strategy for a miller to make a scumgambit that has the potential of getting him lynched?
..................
I dont see the necessity to withhold information. I want those comments and your other suspects in your following post.
.............
About your case against me.
-I claimed miller and then death miller for a reason. Check 37.
-Being defensive is not a scumtell. Nobody wants to be lynched and I get defensive all the time when I have the possibilities of being lynched D1. And I am far from being very defensive.
-What are you talking about me not having a case for you? I do have a case against you, many people have seen it. You didnt have a case against me until this post. Why did it take you that long? Oh I know why, you are looking for shitty things that could incriminate me rather than accepting that you either did a shit job while rereading or you are blatant scum. Nice job!
..............
My case is that you replaced a lurker with zero contribution to the game and that said this game was difficult (WTF?) and asked replacement for this. A person saying that this game is difficult is either retarded or is lying. And Stef isnt retarded. I strongly believe this is a lie and I catched him lurking deliberately. He picked the easy way and got replaced.
I strongly dislike that you admit that you havent reread the game. This shows that you only picked SOME PARTS TO READ. (scum doesnt reread searching for scummy things, they only look for shit to mislynch someone) and that you are basing your lynch target in the fact that "I will come up scum" rather than scummy behaviour.
I dont know how more obvious this has to be.

[populartajo]

I would buy time issues. It has happened to me. I dont buy "this game is difficult" because this is a lie and has more probabilities of coming from scum than town.

[populartajo]

Mirth, I am usually good with my early reads. I don't think my suspicions of Stef are exaggerated. They are based in the probability of scum or town doing that. Im going with the former.
Coorvus, the conclusion is that all the players that have claimed to be millers are indeed millers. All miller PMs (mine included) don't mention trackers, only cops.
I wanted to verify that Mana and Crazy had the same PM. If they negated that they didnt have the cop part it was very obvious that someone was lying because we, Shadowgirl and me, both have the cop part and I believe her claim the most of all the actual and possible ones.
Now leave me alone and comment on Sly's case and such. Okthxbay. I dont like how you came back only to post that.

[populartajo]

If they didnt have the miller PM they wouldnt know that the PM mentioned exclusively cops.

[populartajo]

It does. Shadowgirl is confirmed miller and totally town in my eyes. I want to say the same thing about ManaKu but she could have followed Shadowgirl's claim. But for now Ill consider her confirmed also.

[populartajo]

I like corporate's tone. He is right in so many things with so few words. Prob town. Are you really a newbie?

[populartajo]

Have to read and catch up.
It would be nice for tajo to respond, yup.

What should I respond?

[populartajo]

I already explained it but I think Mirth is right in the fact that I cant fully confirm anyone just because they have only cops-reference in their PMs. I So in few words, my plan didnt work as I wanted everyone to realize. It only gave me a new view on people claiming to be millers. Both Shadowgirl and Mana_Ku are kinda sure about their claims and Im willing to believe they are both millers until its necessary.
Add that to the fact that Id consider unbelievably retarded to counterclaim a miller if you are not one.

[populartajo]

Also, I dont think Sly is misguided townie. If he were misguided townie, he wouldnt have reread the thread to make a weak case against me after days of pushing his silly policy lynch case. Thats just scum pushing harder and avoiding backtracking to look even worse.

[populartajo]

Yeah but take in count that Sly and myself were pretty much tied some days ago with a deadline approaching.

[populartajo]

All quotes from Coorvus

How could you, a death miller, with a 'different' PM have verified them?

I am a death miller but after all, a miller. My PM, as I praphrased some time ago, is obv worded differently than the normal miller PM but it explicitely mentioned "cops" as Shadowgirl said rather than other words as "investigation" and such.

Why wouldn't you answer first;ask "the other miller", afraid to condemn?

Because I wanted to see Mana's reaction since I believe Juls/Shadowgirl to be honest.

The tracker clarification wasn't suggested by you, nor help you at all.

Yes, I know.

To me, you are not consistent in your miller/death miller claim.
It is based on that, that I consider your name.

So you bash me for hidding behind my claim (which isnt true) but you also blame me for not being consistent with my claim? Do I always lose? What should I do? Pretend I am not a death miller when I AM A DEATH MILLER?

If the only case we have on Slysly is his policy lynch of you.
That is sad. It boils down to a 'reverse policy' lynch anew.

Not true. This is my case.

My case is that you replaced a lurker with zero contribution to the game and that said this game was difficult (WTF?) and asked replacement for this. A person saying that this game is difficult is either retarded or is lying. And Stef isnt retarded. I strongly believe this is a lie and I catched him lurking deliberately. He picked the easy way and got replaced.
I strongly dislike that you admit that you havent reread the game. This shows that you only picked SOME PARTS TO READ. (scum doesnt reread searching for scummy things, they only look for shit to mislynch someone) and that you are basing your lynch target in the fact that "I will come up scum" rather than scummy behaviour.
I dont know how more obvious this has to be.

I also dont like his case.

1. Wishy-wash soft miller claim then later elaborates into a solid death miller claim.
2. Very defensive, look at the back and forth between him and Mirth.
3. He is dogging me out for voting for him, with a stated obvious reason, but without pointing out scumminess on him while he is pushing hard for people to vote for me while he has stated NO case for his vote on me

.

About your case against me.
1. I claimed miller and then death miller for a reason. Check 37.
2. Being defensive is not a scumtell. Nobody wants to be lynched and I get defensive all the time when I have the possibilities of being lynched D1. And I am far from being very defensive.
3. What are you talking about me not having a case for you? I do have a case against you, many people have seen it. You didnt have a case against me until this post. Why did it take you that long? Oh I know why, you are looking for shitty things that could incriminate me rather than accepting that you either did a shit job while rereading or you are blatant scum. Nice job!

You are pushing harder, you are backtracking; 'like sly himself'.

When the hell did I backtrack?

And then you 'confirm' all millers, as if it were a reflection on you.
It doesn't confirm you at all, yet you struggle for it too.

You cant get 100% confirmaiton until death but I sincerely think Juls and Mana arent lying about his claims. Reasons explained before. But, if you dont think I am a death miller then YOU SHOULD ALSO BE SUSPECTING THEM becuase you also dont belive your claims, right? Or they are confirmed millers to you?

[populartajo]

Im here. Why do yo need me?

[populartajo]

Damn, Corporate, you know Shadowgirl and me are a couple in real life, right?
Easy with that, boy.

[populartajo]

Heh. <3
I dont know why I keep loving you after all the things you have done to me.

[populartajo]

What? Wanna fight? Dont you remember you were fine with my lynch in that game? And now you aren't listening to me. What do you think of Sly not claiming?

[populartajo]

Damn, Corporate, you know Shadowgirl and me are a couple in real life, right?

Wow, I didn't even know that. That's pretty awesome

Yep. We are actually having an anniversary tomorrow.

[populartajo]

I am usually a sucker for dayline extensions but I dont know what else we can learn if the next possible source of information is Sly's claim which he strangely refuses to give.
What was the motivation for that, Coorvus? Do you sincerely think Sly isnt mafia?

[populartajo]

Damn, Corporate, you know Shadowgirl and me are a couple in real life, right?
Easy with that, boy.

um my bad? you gotta take things like that with a grain of salt, i hit on everyone, just for kicks. you better be careful tajo, you might be next :p

besides all i have to go on here is a picture of a tree. and im way more shallow than that.

Trust me, if she had her picture there, I would have to fight every day for her.

[populartajo]

I just don't see what we would talk about in day 2, except be disappoint.

Wait a sec, how do you know Sly's lynch will be a disappoint?

ExtremeFOS: Coorvus.

[populartajo]

No. As much as I like the Sly lynch, I really find that slip to be deeming enough to guarantee some real scrutiny.
Corpo, dont you see it that way? Why would Coorvus be dissapointed tomorrow if we lynch Sly? Any ideas?

[populartajo]

Confirm vote : Slysly.

Nyah nyah.

[populartajo]

EBWOP
And Coorvus if for some little tiny reason, Sly comes up town, I definitely know who I am going to hunt.

[populartajo]

Im fine with a deadline extension IF AN ONLY IF Sly claims.
And Coorvus, you know I am talking about you, right?
About your answer, meh, it partially depends of Sly allignment but I really dont like the way you play this game. Its incredible and worrying that you think that the only information this game has are the miller claims and this Tajo-Sly dichotomy.

[populartajo]

If you hit on Tajo, I'll have to kill you.
Psh, shallowness. I'm way more concerned about what's inside. Isn't that right, Tajo?

<3
You didnt mean Im not cute, right dear?

[populartajo]

Another NK Llama can add to his record.
Sly was lynched because he deserved it. Anyone that comes and post "FOS everyone in the Sly wagon" is blatant scum. Sly was the obv lynch for the day and it still bugs me why some people wanted a deadline extension when Sly was being ext scummy/antitown.
............................
Lets analyse the supporters.

SPECIAL
Deadline Extension: Corvuus, StrangerCoug, SlySly, Shadowgirl, Mirth
No Extension: corporate

Coug thought it was necessary for holiday business so /out. Shadowgirl, I believe her to be miller, so /out. Sly is dead. /out.
That leaves Mirth and Coorvus. Interesting. Both were my top suspects after Sly.
You want to know why? Because there were two possibilities in Sly's case.
a) Sly is scum for scummy behaviour. Mirth and Coorvus are trying to save his ass indirectly.
b) Sly is town but he had scummy behaviour. Mirth and Coorvus are trying to appear townie staying off the wagon and asking DE.
ITS STRANGE that both of them didnt want to vote Sly at deadline although it was obvious that he was acting scummy/antitown and that he DESERVED to be lynched. This is what seemed strange regarding Mirth. She voted fir him before for weak logic but WHY DIDNT SHE VOTE FOR HIM near deadline and insted asked for a deadline extension? It doesnt make sense to me.
The same can be said about Coorvus. I cant understand why he didnt think Sly was a case that deserved at least some extrarhyming. Why staying out of the wagon that had more probs of finding scum?
So, they both deserve a

FOS : Coorvus

and a

Vote:Mirth

for staying out of an ext decent wagon and instead asking for a lame deadline extension. Add my previous suspicions I had from both, (Coorvus' weak attacks and his slip and Mirth's strange lack of agresiveness regarding Sly) and I think we have a decent D2 start. And Im voting Mirth because I know her and I still think she was being deliberately weak with Sly for some reason I still dont get.
................
Sitll thinking that Corpo and Shadowgirl, claimed millers, are indeed millers. Their plays are extremely bad for scum and I have protown reads from them.
Will reread Penta (thx SC for the first batch) but I still have in mind the newbie town read I had from him from a previous reread.
Electra and Crazy are a different subject. Although not posting much, I have a neutral slightly protown read from them.

[populartajo]

Coorvus, Im not going to turn this thread into an antitown-scummy debate.

I thought Sly was scummy not only antitown. Read my case against him. I didnt vote him because he was only being antitown, he was being scummy.
Refusing to claim is a big scumtell. Going back to create a case against someone you attacked for a weak reason (policy lynch) is another big scumtell.

What worries me is that I have no idea how Coorvus can be so sure that Sly was's acting antitown and not scummy. He was proposing a DE to discuss it but what discussion did he propose? He was only saying we need DE to keep discussing but what exactly discussion he brought to the table other than his illogic attacks against me and avoidance of the Sly case?
The thing is that if he thought that attacking Sly for being scummy is ilogical in his book because he has a super antitown radar in his head, then why only going against me? Or this is OMGUS? There were another votes in him, right?
And the most important thing is how the hell can he be so sure who acts antitown and who acts scummy?
How I am acting scummy and how Sly was acting antitown? Where is the line?

Mirth is another different case. She felt strange swithching strangely to Corpo for weak reasons. I have not many problems with this because its the way she plays but the problem with her is that she was acting deliberately weak with Sly and I want her to explain this..

Im not basing my case entirely in DE discussion. It is an important part, yes, but its not ENTIRELY as you are trying to state. Plz try reading better my posts and be less scummy..

[populartajo]

Coorvus I hate walls of text. I dont want to turn this into a Coorvus-Tajo thing. We can go in circles like forever and we are only hurting the town if you arent scum. Ill let you state in two lines why do you think Im scum.
I agree that there are different points of view but theres something I think you should know, though.

Corvuus will use Tajo's words to show how this is fairly hypocritical. Tajo states that "claiming death miller as a gambit is silly since it draws unwanted attention from day 1". Slysly pursuing a policy lynch of Tajo as a gambit is similarly silly because it draws unwanted attention immediately. Corvuus concludes it isn't a gambit but it is just how Slysly is, and that Slysly is either scum trying to kill with a weak policy lynch, or town believing that policy lynch of Death Miller is the way to go.

Different situations. Tajo death miller and other millers claiming millers is a bad play for scum. Period.
Slysly pursuing over and over a policy lynch is either stupidly antitown or blatant scum scared of backtracking.
See the diference?

Corvuus disagrees with anyone who says Sly was "obvious scum" and would like them to point out exactly why. Refusing to claim and going back to create a case is not 100% certain scum tell and Corvuus rejects that.

Many people are going to disagree with that.

Corvuus will point out that Tajo and the others voting for Sly are different from each other. Implicit in the wording of others, was the possibility and 'doubt' of Slysly being town or scum. Tajo states many times that Tajo views Sly as scum and not misguided townie and Tajo pushes for the lynch *MUCH MORE* than anyone else voting for Sly

Yes. What is the problem? I thought he was scum. He deserved to be lynched. Some people agreed with me because it was a decent case. Some people didnt agree with your deadline extension. Why are just singling me again? And according to your hypocrisy theory, pursuing this lynch wouldnt be a bad play as scum?
I ASK AGAIN, IS THIS OMGUS?

In addition, there is the horribly scummy statement where Tajo says "in case Sly does turn up town, #1 is Corv". If Tajo is so sure that Sly is scum and no further discussion is needed, then what is what this "SLIP". If Tajo is un-sure then why not discuss more? Instead, Corvuus views it as intentionally attempting to setup next day lynch and bring up weak attacks.

More discussion wouldnt have done nothing. Stop pretending it would. I was pretty sure Sly was scum but you can never be 100% sure until death. We needed Sly's allignment.
Also, stop saying you want to know why did I think Sly was more scummy than antitown. Look at the posts you just quoted.
You say you read Sly as antitown. You say you read me as scum. What is the difference between him and me?

[populartajo]

Mirth, how the hell Corpo surpassed Sly in scummyness?

[populartajo]

I agree with corpo here. Mirth you are taking this out of proportion. Like, do you really think that corpo switched votes in a serious way or is this the first time you face a player of his kind? If he's non helpful town as I suspect, he screams "Im so an easy target for scum".
I still dont get what made him more scum than Sly in late game. You voted for Sly, therefore you thought he was scum. Then why a weak tell (bad attitude) made you change your mind?

Farside, are you really pushing corpo's case?

[populartajo]

Mirth are you scum?

[populartajo]

Coorvus I hate that PR. The only think I love is that I dont have to quote you every time. /rimshot.

Tajo death miller and other millers claiming miller is not a 100% bad play for scum

Yes it is. It brings unnecessary attention.

Corvuus will then state that Slysly pursuing a policy lynch of death miller is a 100% bad play for scum

It is a bad play regardless of alignment. I thought he was scared of backtracking when it was too late, but take into account that I thought Sly was scum for other reasons also.

Corvuus then asks what is the difference

Look. Town should play optimally. When town doesnt play optimally situations like this (misreads) happen. Sly didnt play optimally. I misread him. He was lynched. I, death miller, and the other millers (assuming they are telling the truth, as I believe) are playing optimally claiming in early game. If scum claims miller, they dont play optimally, since it brings unnecessary attention especially early in the game when you dont need it. It can be a gambit but the damage is done. Town will obviously see you different. Now, do you see the difference? The difference is optymal play.

Corvuus in particular would ask Tajo why he is "certain" Sly is scummy/scum and then why does Tajo post that if Sly "by chance" comes up town, Tajo will pursue after Corvuus.

Coorvus, I had zero knowledge of Sly allignment. I was inclined to one belief, obv, but I cant be 100% sure of that and leave other possibilities out the window.. Thats how this game works for town. You think something is more probable to happen buy you also have to think in every little possibility.

Corvuus doesn't like how Tajo avoids answering questions.

What question I am ignoring?

Are you telling Corvuus that you worked hard to find scum, found slysly (who you should admit is an easy target because of his refusal to 'play', policy lynch and antitownness, and yet you defend Corporate for similar reasons).

Not at all. Assuming Coorvus is town, as I believe, he has this lazy playstyle that attracts scum : easy target. But people are attacking his playstyle rather than his arguments. Sly was totally different. He pushed a horrible case and was lynched for that and other strong scumtells.

Corvuus already told you what the difference is between you and Sly and others. Sly was a anti-town guy but he was CONSISTENT. Sly as a 'stupid antitown punk' is how Sly always was.

And if he had been scum in this game, how would you know?

Corvuus points out that Tajo has NOT been consistent and is a hypocrite in most things said and done.

Easy, young one. Why dont you ask if I have been cosisntent and a hypocrite to the other people voting for me? Oh, there is ONLY YOU.

Sly as a townie, Corvuus could buy; Tajo as a townie just doesn't feel right since your actions and comments are horrible to Corvuus.

Which is exactly how I felt about Sly. I have no idea how you can differentiate with such easiness.
Now, can you understand what I am saying?

[populartajo]

Corvuus has other comments but is fairly busy right now. Corvuus does want to ask if the quote below is supposed to be Corporate instead of Corvuus.

Not at all. Assuming Coorvus is town, as I believe, he has this lazy playstyle that attracts scum : easy target. But people are attacking his playstyle rather than his arguments. Sly was totally different. He pushed a horrible case and was lynched for that and other strong scumtells.

Yaus.

[populartajo]

@Penta: Looking at your post with vote on SC. I see nothing there that really shows how SC is scum. You talk about Elect and corpor but vote for SC based on what? Day 1 where you all but disappeared after the fact?

Farside, what are your thoughts of Mirth and Corvus?

[populartajo]

Well, I normally wouldnt like to be lynched ever as I know I am town with an awful role but I think Crazy is right.
Watching the situation as another player, I can see that my lynch isnt optymal today since it doesnt give more information than we have today.
In the other hand, another lynch has incredible more potential for finding scum in a possible Lylo scenario.
I am always going to come up scum. The difference is that you are lynching a townie and you cant scumhunt regarding connections..

I have a list.
Prob town
Shadowgirl, Corpo, Crazy,
Neutral
Coorvus (yeah, Ive been thinking about this lately) Penta, Coug
Prob scum
Farside, Mirth, Electra.

Lets see if I get famous someday.

[populartajo]

Scratch that. Electra is also neutral. I had the feeling she was lurking but I just reread her and his first nonrandom posts are pretty decent.
Well, farside, I just explained some posts ago why I am voting Mirth. Its not only gut.
And you, well, just look at you. You just attacked corpo for being a weak player, right, or becuase you though he was scum?

[populartajo]

Townie reads. I believe the miller claims.
Neutral reads. Thats why they are neutral. I dont think they are prob town or prob scum enough to have a read from them.
Why d you think they are scummy?
Mirth read. I do have a case for you. Why did you change your wagon to such a weak case? Why are you still pushing it?

[populartajo]

*wagon should read vote

[populartajo]

Sly wasnt an easy target, SG. <3

[populartajo]

Sly did scummy things, therefore he is a reasonable target for both town and scum.
Corpo hasnt done anything scummy, only has an awful playstyle, therefore is an easy target for scum.
I usually call easy target when I read a player as "unhelpful, idiot, etc" townie that usually scum try to lynch for that and not for scummy behaviour.

[populartajo]

Thats a probability we should consider but Mana claimed miller and corpo strangely feels idiotic town to me.
Where I am going to is the fact that Corpo hasnt done anything that could reveal allignment or could deserve votes. Or am I missing something? Therefore his read should be a null tell to experienced players like Mirth.
The best example I can think of is this : Voting for me was a joke but Mirth thinks is a scumtell, right?

[populartajo]

Thats a probability we should consider but Mana claimed miller and corpo strangely feels idiotic town to me.
Where I am going to is the fact that Corpo hasnt done anything that could reveal allignment or could deserve votes. Or am I missing something? Therefore his read should be a null tell to experienced players like Mirth.
The best example I can think of is this : Voting for me was a joke but Mirth thinks is a scumtell, right?

People shouldn't be allowed to say well I'm an easy target you suck therefore scum as responses.

I agree but do you think corpo is scum or town?

[populartajo]

Mirth, corpo is scum?, yes or not?

[populartajo]

Tajo: I believe he is.

I know youve already done it but I want to know exactly why.
And do you think he is scum with who?

[populartajo]

Corporate, it is not remotely funny to suggest that I'm a racist.

Tajo: I don't know who he is scum with. But he is sharing the top of my list with Electra right now. I do not get any feeling of them being scum together, but then again both of them have been dismissive, and not particularly playing, so I don't know. I really want more out of both of them. He could be scum with you, since you keep defending him, but thats a null assumption because your defense of him doesnt mean anything at the moment.

Opinions of Farside and Coug, plz. Do you think they are both participating?
And I asked why do you think exactly why corpo is scum.

[populartajo]

God, I have the goddamn feeling that farside is scum with Mirth.
I believe the millers : corpo and SG. Crazy also feels town.
I think Coorvus is neutral, I think we both have understood that although we dont agree in the majority of points that doesnt make the other scum.
That leaves Mirth, Coug, Penta, Farside and Electra as all possible candidats. I dont see Coug-Penta and I will prob need to reread to find out more connections but those are my two cents regarding the scum team. I cant be extremely wrong in this.

[populartajo]

Ok. Waiting for your Mirth analysis.

[populartajo]

I was wondering why you just focused in Coorvus. You have explained why.

[populartajo]

Farside, Shadowgirl, Crazy and Coug ALL need to decide a vote.

[populartajo]

What do everybody think about a Mirth lynch?

[populartajo]

Next up will be the conclusion of this and then Electra is next.

Keep going, girl. Im very interested in your conclusion.

[populartajo]

Heh, farside, you always make my day. I would totally love to be the father of your son.

[populartajo]

Heh, farside, you always make my day. I would totally love to be the father of your son.

Umm it's your girlfriend in this game.

I think she just broke up with me some pages ago.
In other news, Im happy someone else thinks like me regarding Mirth.
Coug, thats your case. Thoughts?

[populartajo]

All the players who are not voting need to post and have thoughts on who they believe is scum and why.

Corvuus largely for things you brought up earlier. I'm not opposed to a Mirth lynch, though.

Why? Did you like his lynch before?
What happened to your Pentadragon case?
And yes, Mirth, claim plz.

[populartajo]

/Facepalm.
Mirth, did you breadcrumb it somewhere in the thread?
And why didnt you protect Llama?

[populartajo]

EBWOP
Obviously if someone is the doc you should prob counterclaim.
Corvus, stop being so ridiculous about your cases. How can you think farside is prob town if she thinks that corpo is also prob town?

[populartajo]

Corvuus thinks Tajo's slips and Tajo's unhelpfulness and not really posting or contributing is really lame/scummy. Corvuus would think that a 'real death miller' would actually be more helpful and productive as a "semi-confirmed" town, instead of being so defensive and 'turtle-y'.

/double facepalm.
How am I not being helpful and how Ive been defensive?

[populartajo]

Lylo, right? What do you think of massclaiming?
Corporate indeed miller, Shadowgirl pretty much miller. Since you hate that I call myself confirmed death miller, Im not going to do it but there is already vital pieces of information in the game regarding the miller claims.
................
Im thinking this Electra wagon is in no way townpowered and Im very interested in finding some scum in that wagon.
.................
Mirth, I dont know, I need to reread to find out if you are telling the truth. It still doesnt feel right. Answer this, plz.
1. Do you think Corvus was a better target than LlamaFluff? Why?
2. Have you breadcrumbed before?
3. Can you tell me where have you been doctor in another game you didnt breadcrumb?
..................
Corvus and Mirth, there was a possibility to extend deadline?
Corrvus, do you still think this?

Corvuus thinks Tajo and Corporate both should die. Corporate first to get information since lynch would reveal alignment and also whether scum may know inside information (in order to fake claim miller) and various other good things. Corvuus was more inclined to think Corporate was town due to Mana_ku's posts and such but Corvuus on re-read doesn't like Tajo and Mana's pairing and tajo and corporate 'parroting'. Tajo waiting for Mana to answer Miller tracker claim just to get their stories straight and try to confirm themselves off of real Miller SG?

Corvuus will Vote:Corporate and FoS: Tajo

Need to check a lot of things.

[populartajo]

Whats popcorn?
If I want someone claiming first I want it to be Coug or Farside.

[populartajo]

This is an interesting claim, Corvus. Im really really inclined to believe it for flavour reasons difficult to fake and for some reasons Im posting below.
Even though investigating Llama is an interesting decision, you are giving us free information about Coug, which also reinforces the idea of you telling the truth.
Good point about Mirth. If Mirth is the doctor why did they kill a useless player like corpo?
Also, I was thinking. If I were scum and I knew both corpo and Mirth were town I would have let corpo alive so they could both kill each other.

[populartajo]

I htink farside is around. I want her claim in the next post, if possible.

[populartajo]

I'm still paranoid about you.

And I was until some point in D2. Did you notice?
I think your claim is pretty believable which also confirms Coug.
.............
After farside's claim, I think Penta and Coug should claim next. Crazy may clear his claim at last.
............
EDIT.
Farside already claimed vanilla. I dont think Coug should go next since he's prob cleared by Corvus. Im thinking Penta. Where is he?

MOD?

[populartajo]

I htink farside is around. I want her claim in the next post, if possible.

I thought we were doing popcorn as suggested by SC?
Meh it doesn't matter if tajo is bent on knowing who I am I am cast as a simple townie.

I like the idea of popcorn so how about SC claiming.

Do you believe Mirth's claim?

[populartajo]

I think this is something Mirth should explain.

Corv is obviously post restricted. No player would fake a post restriction that complicated for that long and not slip up. This says nothing of his alignment.

As to why Corv, because it was a choice between Llama and Corv for me as most obviously townie, and I thought going for the one with the post restriction is safer, since scum seem to think post restriction = halfway to confirmed town.

Also, Farside has a point. Mirth, why did you choose Corv over Llama? Llama was so the NK choice. And it was so town to you. Look.

i'm also really not seeing the case on llama. seriously.

If you were paying attention to the day at all yesterday, you'd have noticed that I tended to agree with most of Llamas comments past the original vote on Penta for not unvoting Tajo.

I agree that the lack of flavor in Mirth's claim is also interesting.

[populartajo]

Full claim, Mirth, plz.
Tajo 1015. I dont have a read on Coug and Im really tempted to say that if you are scum then farside makes perfect sense as scumpartner.
and while I don't think post restrictions = insta townie, I thought Corv was

I thought Llama was also protown. But I've seen scum target the post restricted player before, so I picked Corv.

Please show me where.

[populartajo]

EBWOP, fixing my tags.

Full claim, Mirth, plz.
Tajo 1015. I dont have a read on Coug and Im really tempted to say that if you are scum then farside makes perfect sense as scumpartner.

and while I don't think post restrictions = insta townie, I thought Corv was I thought Llama was also protown. But I've seen scum target the post restricted player before, so I picked Corv.

Please show me where.[/quote]

[populartajo]

So, everybody must have an item, right?

[populartajo]

Farside, I'll spit it out if one more person asks me. I don't think saying it will help the town any, though. Obviously, you have not read what I have already said.

What SG said.
I dont see what piece of information would the doc get that could possibly hurt town.

[populartajo]

This thread needs more Korlash claim.

[populartajo]

@ Pop and Farside: First off HI! *waves* second off no. Corvuus is lying and I'm going to prove it. BTW i'm the cop

Vote: Corvuus

Either tell me what makes you bulletproof or die scum.

Cool.
Questions.
1. Results plz.
2. Why do you think there is only one cop?

[populartajo]

edit by way of post:

I counted wrong, Farside hasn't claimed yet. please do so.

C

Farside claimed vanilla.
Argg, this is insane, indeed.
Corv why do you think Korlash is telling the truth?
I think we need more Korlash flavor.

[populartajo]

Just an idea. Has anyone seen cops with 1NK inmunity?TBH, I dont find them too improbable. Which makes me think... if corv is telling the truth, that means there is no doctor in the setup, right?

[populartajo]

Just an idea. Has anyone seen cops with 1NK inmunity?TBH, I dont find them too improbable. Which makes me think... if corv is telling the truth, that means there is no doctor in the setup, right?

I have seen a game with 2 cops before but never 1 that was NK immune. I can't imagine the balance on that.

He is NK inmune or 1 shot inmune?
And where have we seen 3 claimed millers before?

[populartajo]

Wait, wait, wait. When did Mirth become confirmed doctor?

[populartajo]

This has been ignored.
The existence of apparently two bulletproof cops and a killing doc dont make sense. Its too overpowered for town.
To be honest, I believe Corv but there is something in Korlash claim that doesnt make sense. The random result part. Mods wouldnt do that to favorise a faction, but we are talking about FL here. What if Penta had decided not to investigate anyone (mafia trackers come to mind) would he have investigated a random person?
Corvus, your role PM tells you that you have to send an action or that you may send one or that if you dont send one you choose a random target?

[populartajo]

I find it improbable. I think many people think the same. But again FL is crazy and anything is possible here.
Korlash, killing doc with two bulletproofs cops seems plausible to you?

[populartajo]

Tajo, when did I become a killing doc?

Sorry I misread that.
But to be sure, your flavor indicates that you are a weak doc? Or that you are 50-50? How do you interpret rusty?
@Korlash you dont get my point. If there are cops with bulletprof vest, the existence of a doctor seems more/less probable?
And there is nothing wrong with wondering about the setup and finding if its balanced or not. The problem is that why are you so quick to believe Corv's and Mirth's claims as a replacement? Have you at least reread all the game?

[populartajo]

Okay. I get what you are saying. If you are interested, I think Corv is telling the truth and Mirth not so much.
Have you reread the game?

[populartajo]

You should have Mirth.

[populartajo]

I disagree there. Scum knowing that I'm not 100% is not a good thing.

Why not?

[populartajo]

Have you reread the game?

I'm insulted and demand to know what you are incinuating! are you impying I am a bad replacement? I am filled with such utter disgust and... my mouth is all dry... and my foot itches!

<.< Also no, I have not "reread" the game. reread implies reading it twice, I have not had the time to read it twice... I have reread Crazy...but that's only one person...

I assume you dont believe his claim.

[populartajo]

Corv, answer my question, plz.
Just remembered something. Why did Korlash think Corv was scum for him having NK immunity and then also admitted he had one?
And just for reference, FL told me that there was something to balance that I had the death miller role, so I expect some overpowering but not as much as there seems to be.

[populartajo]

And FTR, my PM states cops.

[populartajo]

7) If someone has a night action and fails to send it in before night ends, they will take a randomized night action.

This I dont see how I missed it. Korlash, how did you find out that Penta hadnt sent a night action?
Korlash, have you though of you being 50/50 cop?

[populartajo]

Tajo, there is no way that explaining that will help the town. I'll tell you when the game is over.

Last time it didnt hurt the town as you expected to be.
Again? Im curious. How many people have to ask for it?

[populartajo]

Who reads the freaking rules? I bet no one had realized that rule 7 existed, not even you.
Okay. I agree with you in the sane and insane part. Corv hypothesis makes sense also about one cop being insane in words and sane in investigations and the other the other way around.
Thoughts of Mirth being Godfather? I really think she is scum.

[populartajo]

And how exactly do you consider this overpowered? Two cops of different sanities but with some form of NK immunity. Meaning they can live longer but hey, their investigations might not be all that trustworthy. Or are you refering to the doctor that might probably kill the person she protects? Becuase that is so overpowered for the town. Oh oh I know, you're talking about 3 millers, one of which is a death miller! Yeah that is so in towns favor. Or a RBing theif that has the potential to flip scum? No sir, I see virtually nothing in towns favor. And so in turn see no reason a death miller would even be needed.

Well, since your flavor indicates that you are insane, then I dont see how you dont trust your results, just invert them. With Corv that means there are 2 cops with prob trustworthy results according to flavor. And where did you get the idea that Mirth could kill her targets?
Of all claims, I think Crazy is the second most potential to be fake after Mirth. If he is telling the truth, then I think he has the potential to clear someone?
My PM and I assume the rest of millers indicates the presence of cops. So there has to be minimum 2 cops so you are pretty much confirmed with Corv.
And 3 millers could lead to something like confirming each other, something I tried to do D1 but failed miserably.
I dont see how is that underpowered.
If you guys are going to belive Mirth, I could go with pressing farside, my second suspect.

[populartajo]

And where did you get the idea that Mirth could kill her targets?

Because that is one of the common forms of abnormal doctors. Just like insane/paranoid/naive are the standard forms of abnormal cops.

But he hasnt killed Corv if she is teling the truth. So he is more 50/50 doctor.

Of all claims, I think Crazy is the second most potential to be fake after Mirth. If he is telling the truth, then I think he has the potential to clear someone?

How so? I see no way he can clear anyone.

Crazy posted this : "Now here's another interesting point: the mod said that my action takes place prior to the NKs, so if I am killed during the night, I will role reveal as the person I steal from that night. So, we might as well use that to our advantage. You guys can tell me who to investigate tonight, and then, if I'm NKed, the town gets a free cop investigation."

And 3 millers could lead to something like confirming each other, something I tried to do D1 but failed miserably.

considering you are claiming to be different from the other two millers I don't even see why you would suggest this. Also if the mod wanted roles specifically designed to serve no purpose but to confirm each other then she would have made you masons. Instead you became millers meaning you serve a diffrent purpose.

We three are millers in the end so I figured out that we could somehow confirm ourselves with some part of our PMs, specially the related to cops and investigations.

I dont see how is that underpowered.

two cops three millers, that is the recipe for town screwing itself. If you think otherwise go reread the word "miller" and the word "cop" in the wiki. If you believe Mirth is lying then the town has no doctor. The doctor is arguably tied with cop as the most important role in a game of mafia, and no repalcing a doctor with another cop doesn't make everything all eqully balanced. Can Mirth be lying scum GF? yes. But I won't lynch her today. Not in LYLO with no scum dead. Tomorrow? maybe. Another night of investigations and seeing what the scum does with their NK will be very helpful in that

Fair enough.

If you guys are going to belive Mirth, I could go with pressing farside, my second suspect.

Yes... her claim of vanilla during a massclaim definitally doesn't cross her off the list of scum. And my process of elimination leaves her as a remainder.

Why do you think she is scum?

Vanilla claim. Attempt to subtly push corpo's case, indecision in corpo's behaviour. Some relations with Mirth that I consider bussing (she has been suspectin her but still no vote) and her recent silence in all this paranoia.

Tajo, do you have any cases at all?

Mirth, do you have one? Does anybody?
I do have a case. You. I think you are scum. And Ive been saying since D2 that farside makes a perfect scumpartner. I have to quote and such but I dont have time to do it right now. Tomorrow. Everyone is free to check both of you if they share my feeling.

EDIT: Farside just posted. Crazy is not my second suspect. I said that if one of all the claimed roles is lying, Crazy is the second most probable after Mirth. You have been my suspect early and you can check my posts to prove it.

[populartajo]

on a sidenote, I re-read the rules and this "can't" be lylo. 8 of us, even if we mislynch and a townie gets NK'ed we have 6 (with 3 potential mafia) but if it comes down to 3vs3 then the best haiku wins!!!! Man, i wonder if forbiddan planned all of this. bleh. Since then it would go to 2vs2 and the ultimate haiku battle for the universe is held.

That is a horrible, HORRIBLE interaction I just created. Seriously, it should NOT work like that. That's just plain WRONG. And unfortunately, I didn't protect from it either :S.

Ok, here's the deal, I don't like changing the rules midstream, but this could make the game a little different, and not even mafia. I would like votes by PM about whether you would like me to nullify that rule in any situation that is potential lylo and replace it with a more traditional rule such as first to reach that many votes, or keep it, essentially making any lylo determined by me and amusing haiku. I'll do a VC soon

LOL, this is serious?
Any advantage we can get this as town?

[populartajo]

I think that if we have another advantage to win even though we're equalled at number, the haiku rule must win.
If Im seeing it right, obv.

Just a big recapitulation.

- Both claimed cops are telling the truth. I have cops in my PM and we only have 2 claimed ones. Still dont know about sanities but they are pretty much mirror from each other. Insane assylum could mean someone is insane and I think its the most prob answer.

- Mirth is a 50/50 doc or a godfather.

- Crazy is prob what he claims to be. If he is lying then he must have prepared this lie since D1, something I consider pretty improbable, unless scum have fakeclaims or he is a genious. Could there be a scum role that makes sense with his claimed abilities?

- Coug is confirmed by Corv that I think is sane. Or he could be a GF.

- Farside, the other vanilla, I havent liked her since D2. Weird stance against corpo and there is something off with her attacks against Mirth. Since no one seems to buy my Mirth case Im going to

vote:Farside.

- SG is miller.

@Mirth, I do have a case on you. Check back to find out why I think you are scum. I would like that you reread and find some cases.

[populartajo]

Korlash, did you read the tomorrow part?

[populartajo]

Last I checked Mirth wasn't pushing for a lynch/wagon/vote on someone where-as you were. Throwing her question back on her like that is a sure sign of hiding something.

WTF? I saw his question as "you dont have a case, Tajo". Well, she wasnt precisely the best to ask me about it because al her cases were already dead and townies and I do have a case.
So, am I suspicious for pushing a case that I think is decent and people who dont even have an opinion or have all his cases become vanilla lynches, get a free pass?. We must be living in China because the world is upside down.
You better reread, kay?

[populartajo]

Korlash, did you read the tomorrow part?

Of course. But I fail to see how stating "I'll have a case on you tomorrow" proves you have one today. In fact I think that disproves you have one today.

Or Im busy at work and can only answer to posts in one tab. Not like 3 tabs of mafiascum like I usually do when I quote things.
I want you to reread farside and come with an opinion of her.

[populartajo]

Korlash, really? That was obvious tomorrow RL.

[populartajo]

I think you're suspicious for a lot more reasons then the fact you're pushing a case you are too afraid to back up.

And I want these reasons asap.

[populartajo]

I love a BS case when I see it.
I never stated I was suspicious or pushed a case on Corp. I'm vanilla sue me.
I stated more on Mirth and her misinformation that you got credit (you is PT) today and some how you (PT) missed it the first time. Why I got ignroed for noticing something PT gets the credit for was aggreviating but what ever.
I stated my case on Mirth had potentional more on Electra and her interaction then anthing else I noted if you read my comments. Electra turned out town which makes the Mirth notes null as far as their interaction.
Anything else I missed in your BS case tajo?

Except its not BS.
Hi.
Coug, can you at least expect to post my case on Farside before posting you dont like my case?


I present you: Mirth.

I'm a she. And you still dont have a case.

I have a case. Stop pretending I dont have one. All quotes are mine.

Defending Stef.

Mirth, the almighty scumhunter, why are you protecting this player (Stef) you also didnt like some time ago?

Being weak against Sly.

Thats weird, Mirth. I would totally expect you to be all over him right now. More pressure on him, dont you think? I obv dont want a lynch right now.

General comment

And thats exactly what I am talking about. You feel different. You were more logical in Ace Attorney Mafia. Your last post really makes me wonder. Also you were/are attacking weak cases (Llama's vote, my case) that have deserved votes but you are giving Sly only a fos. I would expect you to be all over him.
Also I still dont like how you implied tat Juls had to claim in her first post. That was a loaded question, IMO.
That is what feels different, Mirth.

Reasons for voting.

Vote:Mirth for staying out of an ext decent wagon and instead asking for a lame deadline extension. And Im voting Mirth because I know her and I still think she was being deliberately weak with Sly for some reason I still dont get.

Mirth is another different case. She felt strange swithching strangely to Corpo for weak reasons. I have not many problems with this because its the way she plays but the problem with her is that she was acting deliberately weak with Sly and I want her to explain this..

I agree with corpo here. Mirth you are taking this out of proportion. Like, do you really think that corpo switched votes in a serious way or is this the first time you face a player of his kind?
I still dont get what made him more scum than Sly in late game. You voted for Sly, therefore you thought he was scum. Then why a weak tell (bad attitude) made you change your mind?

[populartajo]

What you initially gave for your vote reasons were too vague to my liking, but since you've clarified and I understand the case I'll

un-FoS: populartajo

.

FOS: Coug.

[populartajo]

Farside, the other vanilla, I havent liked her since D2. Weird stance against corpo and there is something off with her attacks against Mirth.

This could have meant anything about farside22's cases on corporate and Mirth before your clarification, and I therefore read this as voting on gut, something you shouldn't be doing in LYLO.

Why did you UnFos me , Coug?

[populartajo]

Mmmmm. Do you think its valid?

[populartajo]

Im not sure but I think farside is seeing what Im seeing regarding Coug and his position of my "case".

[populartajo]

Korlash, really? That was obvious tomorrow RL.

so it seems. Already appologized for my mistake so if you are expecting me to bake you cookies you can forget it! It was an easy mistake to make. Now good day sir! >.>

I want my cookies baked nao!

And I want these reasons asap.

You want me to reread Farside, you want me to form an opinion on her, you want me to state my reasons, you want you want you want. Geeze, greed is a sin man. Get over it.

Earn your money as a replacement, biatch.

However, as asking for reasons against you is something most people need to do I shall answer it now!

1) Claims the mod told you your role was to conpensate for something, that means the mod told you something about the set-up you ahd o right to know. If the question is whether the mod seriouslyscrewed up or you are lying I choose the latter.

Im pointing that the mod told me that there was something else to balance the fact that I got the death miller role, paraphrasing her, there would be balance. I dont care if you believe it or not. I think its important for the town to know this in the sepcualation phase we are now.

2) Your disbelief of two cops regardless of having the word "cops" in your pm. Your disbelief in Mirth regardless of believeing I am an insane Cop. Your disbeilf of having two bullet proof cops even though you claim you were "told" your role was to compensate for something.

I never disbelieved there were two cops. If you recall correctly, my first question was "Why do you think there is only one cop?" I seriously didnt believe you at the beginning and I was really expecting someone to counterclaim. But no one did so I already confirmed you and Corv as the cops my PM talks about.

3) Claim of death miller. A role so seriously f**ed up that I cannot find any wordother then F*** to describe it.

Case? Role is BS and FL knows it

4) Your fasination with Mirth, who i believe was only left alive in order to be the sacrificial goat for today.

I can talk about your "fascination" with Crazy and me, too. Thats not fascination. Its I think she is freaking scummy and a very prob scum. I dont know if Im wrong and you dont know if you are wrong. I think Mirth is scum, you dont but just because you disagree with me that doesnt mean Im scuj. We'll have to find out postgame.

5) You are using tthe fact you thing two people are paired as scum to damn them both. In order to use bussing as a reason you need to know one of their allignments. (I will then say that because you use that reason the fact I see a pairing between you and Crazy {Someone I think is likely scum} should be mentioned. I do not plan on pushing for partnership until one of your alignments are flipped but in the event one of you flip scum expect a case on the other to follow shortly after)

You prob have a point here. One of the parts of my farside case is her odd relation with Mirth. (Did you reread both and find what Im talking about?). I think Mirth is scum, Ive seen her as town and shes totally different here. But, okay. Ill have to wait until we lynch her... oh yeah the problem is Lylo and Mirth has a solid claim, and yes theres still the little possibility that she could be telling the truth. Ill be posting a farside case soon, ignoring her relation with Mirth. There was a reason why she was my second suspect some time ago.

6) Actually I can't think of a six at the moment nor do i think a 6 is required at the moment. I'm sure I'll remember or see something in the future that will qualify as a 6 so I will keep this spot open.


Happy now? I'll be looking forward to you doing something similar for both Mirth and farside "tomorrow".

[populartajo]

Ok we know corporate was a bad attitude player. Bad attitude doesnt mean scum. Mirth apparently doesnt know that or is scum pushing a easy target. But lest look at farside.

This isn't really a replay is it? I mean Mirth has a valid point and you just say that scum believe your post were without meaning?
First did you or did you not come in and just post saying it was between Sly or tajo?
Second did you or did you not post stating your thoughts on each player as mostly one liners with no real effort?
Third how hard is it to put more into a post on each player and your views on who is scum and why?
Typically scum have a harder time doing the 3rd part which is why Mirth is driving the point more.

Not directly, but subtly supporting Mirth case attacking corpo. Or am I reading it wrong?
Lets look at first point. What do you think was wrong in that Sly-tajo dichotomy?
Second, not posting with real effort and one liners dont mean scum. Or do you agree with Mirth here?
Third, again read second.
Ok you say you are commenting about his playstyle but why did you post that "usually scum have a harder time doing the 3rd part"? This is a perfect example of a subtly attack. Of course you are not that obvious, farside. Thats why you are an awesome player.
So thats what basically cemented her as second scummiest in the block.

I will say this corporate is unconventional.

Scummy no

, sarcastic absolutely.

I don't really get a scum vibe reading corp

but I would like to see him give more information.

So if you agree with me, then do you think Mirth attacks are valid or not?

I just don't like corpo's attitude.

I believe corpo is town based on Mana and not him

just so you know. Attitude does say alot about a person.

Mmm, contradiction much?

But, thats not all.
I reread her and there are some interesting things I found.

SC: Saying I have protown vibes for players is sucking up to a player and I see scum suck up to players they know are town to look town.

vote: SC

That was farside attacking Coug for buddying up to Llama. Wait a sec, how does farside know that Coug is buddying up to a town player?

Let's add OMGUS vote on top of butt kissing. I explained myself how the heck is that strawman? A little bit of a panic for one vote?
I am telling you I see scum suck up to townies.

Again?

second, farside, why criticize llama's attack of juls but not mine.

I started my read with my last post I saw llama attacks from my last post and the comments he made. I don't recall what you said to Juls but I will go back and look.

Mmmm, why is farside ignoring Mirth?
For the record, I dont like all that chat Mirth and farside had in those pages. I have the feeling that both are being very careful about suspecting each other.

I don't see it that way. Llama however mentions a difference between one post that Juls made and another and I can see where she thought both might be the same thing. Its something many a newb are confused about. That seems more of a trap move then your comment.

Why all the defense of Llama?

SC is guilty for sucking up to Llama but Mirth isnt. She only gets a question. There are no vote:Mirth not even a FOS even though Mirth was still not getting the point. In the other hand, Mirth was questioning farside but she also never voted/fosed her. Once again, Mirth was being deliberately weak with farside.

I suggest mish mash games if you want friends. Not mafia games.
FOS: tajo

I'm not will to lynch you at this time, but I don't care for people using that method it is scummy to try and say, but ah we are friends why the hate.

But I get a FOS for being friendly. Rly?

After she joins me in my Sly case. Fair enough. Then comes Corpo and what I analysed earlier about his strange stance and indecision towards him.

Discuss.

[populartajo]

Mirth

Stef wasn't being all that scummy to begin with. Tajo decided he was scum for no reason and kept pushing, pretty much basing his "case" on Stef being AWOL, which had to do with out of game reasons.

Not true. My case against Stef was that he said this game was hard and used that as a reason to not post. This game isnt conventional but it isnt hard. Tthen he came back with a horrible vote for SG and said he was testing her.
Why dont you look at the reasons I gave before posting lies?

Unvote

Welcome ShadowGirl.. nice to play with you again. What do you think about Juls's reaction that led to her replacement? Do you think it was scummy? Why or why not?

Unvote Vote: Stef

No other comments? And you want someone else to decide for Jul's reactions?

Now, Stef. Im bothered why he hasnt commented anything about the game and his last comment is asking for someone else to do it. Do I need to explain more?

I agree. I was just trying to pressure ShadowGirl. Failed so far.. so..

Unvote

Mmmmm. I dont like this.

Then he asked for a replacement. I assumed I catched him. But then came Slysly and his stupid idea that finally got him lynched.

Sly, well, Sly was scummy. Maybe I didn't push him hard enough to appease Tajo, but considering that Tajo already decided Sly must be scum because Stef must be scum, I don't think Tajo has the perspective on this issue. I think I pushed enough there.

Mirth, really? How many lies can I find in this paragraph? First, Sly wasnt scum because Stef acted scummy. I made a case. Check 508 in page 21. Stop lying! Second, you changed your vote from a player full of scumtells and a crap case(you admitted that) to someone that didnt have scumtells.

Corporate, you may argue til you're blue in the face, but I maintain that he was scummy in that he was doing NOTHING. Not protown behavior. Just sitting back.

I agree doing NOTHING is antitown. How doing NOTHING proves that he is scum?
Mirth, whats the difference between Stef and Corpo?
Also, what do you think of farside's contradictions regarding corporate?

[populartajo]

Farside's defense dissapoints me. Im going to make this easy for you, farside.
This feels like a contradicition to you?

I will say this corporate is unconventional.

Scummy no

, sarcastic absolutely.

I don't really get a scum vibe reading corp

but I would like to see him give more information.

I just don't like corpo's attitude.

I believe corpo is town based on Mana and not him

just so you know. Attitude does say alot about a person.

How did you know Llama was town?
What happened to your suspicions of Mirth?

[populartajo]

Okay, this will likely be my only post today (I'm still on vacation - as I mentioned.) I tried to access the site a day or two ago and it was down...

My claim: Everyone is out to get me and I do a some things at night to try and stop them, which makes me suspicious. Cops that may or may not exist will get mafia on me.

(Forbiddan, I paraphrased as much I could.)

Have a nice vacation! <3

[populartajo]

Mmmmm. Do you think its valid?

Yes.

What you initially gave for your vote reasons were too vague to my liking, but since you've clarified and I understand the case I'll

un-FoS: populartajo

.

What about my counter comments on his so called case?

I'll start by saying there's a difference between invalidity and nonexistence.

What part of PT do you think is a solid case?

As of when you asked, your defending Mirth. In fact, after you asked, populartajo presented more of his case against you, and his accusing you of a double standard (specifically, FoS'ing me but not Mirth for sucking up to LlamaFluff) reads to me as you being a favoritist towards her.

Mmmmm.

[populartajo]

The first one to tell me who is lying between these posters gets a cookie.
a) Farside. b) Mirth c)StrangerCoug.
Game is on!

[populartajo]

Has everybody missed the part where Coug is blatantly lying?

[populartajo]

Korlash kut the Krap Logick!! and stop the tunnelvision on me

How exactly was she defending stef and for what reason did Stef need said defence?

tajo, please actually give us a logical reason for why you think stef is scum outside of his shoddy posting rate.

Oh the irony....

also, as for stef, i have reason to believe that he is genuinely distracted [other ongoing games], and while his posts here have been pretty much useless, i dont see why his replacing out is such a big scumtell for you. stef remains at null-read level because of his lack of contribution.

was stef being useless and lurky? yes, definitely. but im reserving judgment until we get a replacement as to what it could mean because i feel that regardless of what his role is, he didnt actually bother playing at all. i regard stef as a null read at this point in time.

But before this "dont touch Stef" philosophy, Mirth was bothered by his attitude.

first off i dont like stef's unvote due to its lack of reasoning. and his general silence and refusal to comment bothers me.

i am still not liking penta's lack of content [and stef's lack of posting

This just sounds like the dumbest reason I ever heard. How does being weak equate to being scum?

Mirth is an ass as town. She attacks players until oblivion. Being weak with someone could mean that they were scumpartners, a possibility I though at the time, or, again, not being in the townie wagon, earning future townie points. The main idea here is inconsistency in her attacks caused by a scum agenda.

But explain to me how attacking weak cases is scummy? Any weak case needs to be either destroyed or strengthed asap before it does damage. I'd also like to see this loaded question.

Attacking weak cases is scummy because they are weak, duh. Mirth voted for weak reasons (my case was weak, Llama's was weak). Sly case was pretty decent. But Mirth at the time only FOSed Sly. Again, inconsistency in their attacks.
Loaded question :

juls, you did not claim in your first post. why.

staying off a wagon is not a sign of scum regardless of how decent you felt the wagon was. Asking for deadline extension is not something scum would normally do unless it was needed to save their own. And how exactly was she being weak?

Lolwut? Have you ever been scum before? Why cant scum ask for deadlines?
I already said why she was being weak. If you attack strongly someone else for things that arent even scumtells, I expect that same person to go crazy an all over the place for things that are decent. Mirth, contrarily to that, left a decent wagon (Sly) for a player that was just being non helpful (Corpo).
[quote="Korlash]Also, if you actually felt she was scummy you wouldn't have had a problem making your "case" post on here a two sided thing. Instead you conviently only posted thing you had said, which all things considered, means you technically built a case on yourself which is worthless at this point. [/quote]
My intention was to show Mirth and you that I did have a case. Wasting time quoting what Mirth said all the game and repeating what Ive been saying all the game is illogical since you all have decided that she has to be the doctor. (shrug) Notice the difference with farside.

[populartajo]

I have finished rereading. And I found something very interesting. Crazy attempts to link himself to Tajo pretty much the whole game, and Tajo spends most of the game insisting Crazy is town despite little actual playing, poor commentary, and oppurtunism. Hmmm...

I think Crazy is town for his early breadcrumb and for the ridiculous idea of scum semiconfirming someone too easy to mislynch as me. Yes, I could be wrong but Id be really amazed if he has been lying since D1. Post 14 (looking his posts only) is a very potent protown post.
I want to ask you a question, Korlash can also answer, why is Crazy scum?
And Ive been wondering all this time, why is Coug still alive?
Coug is scum.

Unvote Vote : SC.

If you dont see this you either need glasses or you shouldnt be playing mafia.
EDIT : Mirth, I dont type in seconds, geez.
EDIT2: Farside gets some cookies.

[populartajo]

Tajo has always been trying to confirm his role *beyond* what the other millers ever did. Corporate and SG's attitude has been more like, "I'm a miller... yeah... so what?" while Tajo isn't like that at all. It could just be player difference but it just doesn't seem honest or consistent to me.

Player difference.
Also @SG, you may have a point, but I think that the word "cops" in my PM and the fact that there are 3 millers, implies strongly the existence of more than one cop.

[populartajo]

Has everybody missed the part where Coug is blatantly lying?

It's called chronological progression of events *facepalm*

No it isnt, liar.

[populartajo]

Eh... I don't think it's quite enough to confirm multiple cops. The way the sentence is structured just wouldn't be grammatically correct if the word 'cop' wasn't plural.

Then prob FL would have used another sentence.
So, girl, do you think there are cops?, only a cop?, no cops at all? Of all the claimed cops, who do you believe is telling the truth?
Does the fact that there is one miller dead and you know you are a miller, even if you dont believe me, makes you think more about what possibility?
Comments of Coug case?

[populartajo]

This seems to imply that Tajo knows Mirth's alignment 'for sure' so while I was so-so but leaning town with Mirth's doc claim and such, this just pushed me over the top.

Talking about tunnelvisions.....
Look, Corv, reread the game and tell me if Im telling the truth or Mirth is telling the truth. Its all in this thread.
Now, about your "Tajo know for sure" idea. I have been saying all this game that I know how Mirth plays as town. Ive played with her in Ace Attorney mafia and all my gut feelings at the beginning at the game are based in the comparison of both behaviors. (Bonus fact : SensFan vigged her N1) Being an ass (I dont want this to mean an insult) means : "asking questions and questions and questions to the points of madness and attacking some things that are only scumtells in a place called Mirth-land" What Im going against in THIS GAME is the fact that if she were town she wouldnt have the inconsistencies she has in this game : (being weak against Sly, being weak with Stef, but being really harsh with corpo. Now get what I mean?)
................
Im tired, Im really tired of your overconfidence and the idea that you know more of this game than any of us. So you dont believe Im a death miller, why do you believe Mirth is a weak doctor?
................
Waiting for Coug and his answers.

[populartajo]

I want to ask you a question, Korlash can also answer, why is Crazy scum?

Look at his play. Tell me why he's town.

And Ive been wondering all this time, why is Coug still alive?
Coug is scum.

Unvote Vote : SC.

...wait. WTF, what? Whatever happened to "die mirth die"? And that was still going on in the previous post.

I already said why I think Crazy is prob town.
And about the Coug thing, you arent the only one in the group and many people believe you are the weak doctor so your lynch unfortunately isnt optymal. Powerful claim. And I believe you told some post ago that I was right about this.

[populartajo]

For sake of LYLO, yeah... that sounds about right.

Pop has made it pretty clear he believes there are multiple cops and from what I have seen he seems to have accepted both our claims. Yet he has also made big movs against the two people we have investigations on, which doesn't make sense. How can he trust us and believe we are cops while also distrusting our investigations?

When the hell did we confirm your sanities and why Mirth cant be a godfather?

[populartajo]

EBWOP
Add Coug to that godfather list.
Really, why are you ignoring him?

[populartajo]

I never said there could be 2 GFs. Thats insane. I was stating the possibility of one of them being one...
Well, I just realized something. We all seem to think that farside is scum, right?

[populartajo]

Way to go, apparent insane cop and apparent weak doc.
Korlash, that 50/50 would be a reatarded argument to lynch someone. My whole argument is in this thread. I think Mirth is scum. I have my case all over the place. I think farside is scum. Have you at least read my case of her? ITS NOT PROCESS OF ELIMINATION. Coug just blatantly lied some pages ago and kept pushing the same lie for 1-2 pages.
You are just basing your decision of today in the fact that I am a death miller and that Crazy doesnt have a cool claim as Mirth.
Can anyone explain me why there has to be a doc in this setup?
I dont think Crazy is scum.
And Mirth, when have I wanted Korlash, Corvus, Crazy or SG lynched before me? Cut the crap, plz.

[populartajo]

So, tell me, Tajo, when did you get so desperate that you're basically trying to start a wagon on anyone who isnt you?

Actually he hasn't tried to start one on Crazy yet... At least not lately.

This is the kind of quotes that makes me think that Mirth is not town.

[populartajo]

If you're going to use caps lock you better make sure you're right or else you are simply aking it easier to see what an ass you are.

I used that CAPS to tell you that my reason to think she is scum ITS NOT PROCESS OF ELIMINATION.

You said "everyone thinks farside is scum" that is false. As far as I go, it is PoE. From Corv's last post I assume it's PoE for him as well. I don't care if YOU have a case or not, "EVERYONE" doesn't.

When did I say that? I was asking everyone's opinion. Next time you use caps lock you better make sure you are right or else you are simply aking it easier to see what an ass you are.

I don't really care how much you think Mirth is scum either, because a cop investigation will overrule any case you make today. The only way to lync Mirth or Coug would be if they do something that is undenyable scum.

uh huh... well think what you like, my current thought process is based on the fact you are acting incredibly scummy and have a bad claim

How am I acting incredibly scummy? And maybe I have a bad claim prob because ITS MY FUCKING ROLE?

You decided I wasnt town on no evidence day 1, so I dont see what it matters

How much scum does Mirth have to be? Is this a valid answer?

That's funny becuase you not making an attempt at a case on Crazy makes me think you are not town. I just cannot see how someone can accept the BS Crazy has been saying over the past however many pages and not have a tiny amount of doubt. Yet you're the guy who overlooks cop investigations... Doesn't add up to me...

If Crazy is scum then he has been lying since D1. Scum doesnt confirm 3 townies in D1. Scum doesnt confirm the easiest mislynch in D1. His claim is polemic, I know, but its obvious that he hasnt made up this recently, therefore implying that its more prob that he HAS this role since the beginning of the game than the prob that he made up this.
All these quotes are from D1.

I have some reason for trusting Tajo here

I am not a miller, though as I said before, something similar to a death miller that affects my reveal upon death.

-Tajo is very likely to be town. I'm not a miller, but I'll just say that the flavor that Tajo mentioned is really
close to my role PM. (It's best I don't claim now, trust me)

All Makes sense with his thief claim.

because when they look through my possessions they will see that other person's belongings.

And if I were to die, people will look at my things and due to my useless gun I will be remembered as mafia.

This is why I believe that Tajo is town, due to similar flavorishness. And you guys can believe that with the Korlash/Corvuus link, so you should be able to believe it here.
Again post 14 and post 15 (reading his posts in isolation) are very potent protown posts.
Also I just thought of something. Everybody must have an item, right? That would make Crazy's claim at least more believable or in the opposite, would put him in a bad spot.
I have a useless gun.

[populartajo]

It seems farfetched for scum to claim to come up to cops as guilty and will flip guilty if lynched?

Does his claim match yours? His flavor? His role? Are any of them the same as yours?

Its not farfetched when there are 2 other claimed millers (1 is confirmed) and there are 2 cops, one insane and one sane (acording to you).
Damn!

[populartajo]

You present your case on farside22 in more detail; in fact, you ask me if I could have waited for the case before I said I don't like it.

Except 1188 isnt about farside. Its about Mirth.

I can no longer call your farside22 case vague and based on gut, so pull the FoS.

Except that if you had read the case you would have realized that it was about Mirth again.
So the question is why did you say that you feel cool with my farside case, which earned me an UnFos, when I wasnt even talking about her?

[populartajo]

Coug, I dont buy that. Use of emoticon and looking for support in someone you know that could prob help you. I could bet all my money that you are lying.
The worst thing is that you tried to trick us in 1206. Farside asked what part of my "case in 1188" you thought it was valid but you answered with a case I made this time against farside (1198) AFTER you UnFoS me.(1189)
......................
So this is the real progression of events.

1180. You dont like my farside vote. You FOS me.
1188. I DONT present my farside case in more detail. I said why you dont wait for my case before you say you dont like it because I was going to post it after analyzing Mirth
1191. You UNFOS me. Reason : you are satisfied with my farside case.
1195. Farside asks you what part of my case in 1188 do you think is valid. (Logical question because I didnt have a case in farside at the time)
1198. I FINALLY make a case against farside.
1206. You use my reasons in 1198 for supporting your UNFOS in 1191 and for answering farside in 1195.
So, fail.

So what is the bad thing here? Coug obv didnt read post 1188 (where I attack Mirth and not farside) but however he UnFoSed me because he felt satisfied with my explanation. He's obv lying here and its IMPOSSIBLE for him to confuse Mirth with farside because the word Mirth is in every paragraph of that post. The only way I could believe that he made a mistake is if he had skimmed that post. But we know he didnt because he did read all the post to satisfy his suspicions. Unless he is lying obv and never read that post.

[populartajo]

Korlash is therefore right

Impossible!... About what?

Before i get into this, Pop can I ask you a question? Just a quick one...

Let's say, hypothetically Coug is scum and you are town. who are the other scum? This is just an educated guess on your part, holds no barreing on any cases now or in the future, I just want to see what your answer is.

so... just for fun, predict a scum team...

Glad you noticed Coug is making no sense.
I think I made myself pretty clear in 1209.
Coug, Farside and Mirth.

[populartajo]

So you are pushing a two GF theory...

It is not Coug I think is making no sense...

How Im pushing a 2 GF theory?

[populartajo]

Both Coug and Mirth have town result cop investigations on them. They cannot both be scum unless they are both GF investigation immune.

Right, the investigations.
Korlash, answer me this,
a) Do you really think you are insane and that Corv is sane?
b) Is the option of possible 50/50 cops makes sense to you?
c) What would be the reason for you to be an insane cop based on flavor? Wouldnt have been easier to tell you in your PM that you were a normal cop if flavor is that obvious?
I really cant think of anything else. 2 GFs is ridiculous and a mess in a cop investigations. That or Im reading one of them wrong.

[populartajo]

populartajo, if I'm not mistaken, for Mirth and I to make any sense as scumbuddies, Corvuus would have to be either scum that knows we're town or naïve. I understand some of your case on me, but your denying that you are pushing a two-godfather theory when you have the scum trio pinned as Mirth, farside22, and me is logical fail.

Did you read 1296?
So, you understand my case on you, care to explain?

[populartajo]

Did you read 1296?

... I just have to say this... pop... you are annoying as hell. All the "did you read?", "have you read?" and the like is just freaking annoying man. What do you expect us to say: "No... I'm posting in a game I refuse to read! dur...."

serously... it really grinds my gears...

Well, it also annoys me when I post something like this:

2 GFs is ridiculous and a mess in a cop investigations. That or Im reading one of them wrong.

And then some guy that you defended for being stupid for not reading well and lying, (why would town lie?) inmediately posts this:

I understand some of your case on me, but your denying that you are pushing a two-godfather theory when you have the scum trio pinned as Mirth, farside22, and me is logical fail.

Ill answer your big post tomorrow. I need to reread again this insanity. RL tomorrow, BTW.

[populartajo]

Coug, so you are admitting that you thought farside was the one I was quoting attacking Mirth?

[populartajo]

Wait, why arent we no lynching?

[populartajo]

Wait, why aren't we no lynching?

Shoot me if I know, but your suggesting that both Mirth and I are scum together is already credibly bankrupt and a no-lynch, if we're still playing the day after, will blow it to bits if Korlash and I haven't done it already.

I dont understand this. Could you rephrase it?
Im not done with you, Coug, Btw. Im tired and going to bed right now.

[populartajo]

@Corv: What me and Tajo have been debating over flavour is whether the sentence structure shows the existence of that there are either multiple cops or none at all.

His flavour:

There could be cops but they will see me as mafia.

(On page two)

Which I agreed that it matches mine.

So what does this mean, Corv? SG is scum also? Meh, SG destroyed your whole 1315 with only one paragraph.
I repeat, stop pretending I should play this game like you would do and use that reason to think Im scum. Think outside the box.
I think I played optimally. If you dont, then go read some mafia theory in MD.

[populartajo]

Well, if we no lynch then we would be in the same situation tomorrow, WITH THE EXCEPTION of cops claiming new results and one possible less player to maximize the odds of finding scum. Hell, if Mirth is a doc then maybe we could confirm someone.
I ALREADY said that 2 GFs is ridiculous so barring something crazy, Im prob reading one of you wrong.
Coug and Mirth, what do you both think of farside?

[populartajo]

I'm leaning slightly towards scum on farside22 based on her reactions with Mirth earlier.

So do you think scumpair?

[populartajo]

Not necessarily. I don't have anything particularly damning against Mirth.

So she is scum with who?. Any guesses?

[populartajo]

I'm leaning slightly towards scum on farside22 based on her reactions with Mirth earlier.

So do you think scumpair?

Also, could you point me to what reactions are you talking about?

[populartajo]

Not necessarily. I don't have anything particularly damning against Mirth.

So she is scum with who?. Any guesses?

[populartajo]

I think she could be scum with you and Crazy, Tajo, due to POE. But I don't put too much stock in this yet, because she hasnt really done anything scummy on her own (except chew Llama out).

Hi, Mirth. Why am I scum?

[populartajo]

Korlash, voting no lynch when there is an odd amount of players before Lylo its not what we SHOULD be doing here, specially when there are 2 cops in the setup and your assumed doc?

[populartajo]

Korlash, voting no lynch when there is an odd amount of players before Lylo its not what we SHOULD be doing here, specially when there are 2 cops in the setup and your assumed doc?

even number. Yes, I didnt study my englash.

[populartajo]

Lets see. First you decided I'm scum for no reason at all, and spend all game pushing that, while distorting my words and accusing me of stuff I didn't do. Then you decided Stef was scum cause he went AWOL. Then you decided I'm scum with Farside on no evidence. Then we got to endgame and you, after pushing both these noncases, decided to go for SC. Then you started to get desperate again and suggest Farside. Now you're pretty much playing the "lynch anyone who isnt me" game, and you're spent the whole game saying Crazy is town, whereas his play has not been protown and his claim reeks, but you believe him. And, you still won't look critically at Crazy. Oh and the whole hiding behind your flavour thing. And Crazy trying to confirm you through his flavour. I think that pretty much sums it up. I might make an actual case with quotes and such later, but not right now. Need to read a game I replaced into and have to take care of modding stuff for my bastard mini.

I will like to see this backed up with quotes

Unvote.

Vote: No lynch.

Im voting no lynch until someone tells me why its not a good idea.

[populartajo]

If anything, Tajo, I want you to give us reasons WHY no lynch is good in this particular case. I can see 'the potential good' that could come out of it but it is a narrow risky shot at best and I don't think town should just sit on our hands for something so ill-defined.

Corvus, its lylo. Thats the only reason why no lynch is good here.
You say its going to be the same, well I agree. What do we lose, according to you?
Until now, its safe to assume that there is only 1 NK. There is not even a killing method in people that have already died.
Mirth admitted that she isnt a weak doc. Scum would be more organized, I know, but think about this in a game of probabilities. We are letting scum decide if they want to reduce our probabilities of losing.
In the best case, we have other vital pieces of information from our assumed 2 cops, a 50/50 doc and thief, if we all are telling the truth obv.
If you have 1 bulletproof jacket or 100, it doesnt matter. Scum wont target you and Korlash tonight. We have more results. We can even be sure about Crazy 100%. But today we dont have that degree of certainty. If for some reason we lynch wrong today, we lose.
Simple as that.

[populartajo]

This is ridiculous.
Korlash, you are 100% sure Crazy is scum?
If yes, then we can lynch him.
If no, then we HAVE TO Vote No lynch.
Even number of players means no lynch.
Yep, its not exactly Lylo. If we no lynch, Im pretty sure we arent going tot lose immediately. If we lynch wrong, we lose.
Im 99% sure there is only 1 NK. There is not even a method of killing.

Kinda Dead:
9. Stef SlySly Vanilla Townie
7. Llamafluff Vanilla Townie
12. Electra Hoopla Vanilla Townie
11. Mana_Ku corporate Miller

When there are 2 NKs, there are at least 2 killing methods. Here, there is no one.
.................
If we can have a little more of probs of winning this game, then why arent we doing this?

[populartajo]

When there are 2 NKs, there are at least 2 killing methods. Here, there is no one.

Let me clarify this would not necessarily be true. That WOULD be a flavor hint in my eyes, and I try to avoid those where ever possible. I know other mods do use differing kill methods for multiple killings for consistency. I don't.

Note that this does not necessarily confirm the existence of a second killing role either.

Thx FL.
But like we are intelligent, we know that you never saw killing methods as important since there arent indications of them in the front page. Therefore, its safe to assume that there is only 1 NK.

[populartajo]

Tajo, I never said I wasnt a weak doc. I said I dont know. I don't know the mod's contingencies here.

So what role are you?

[populartajo]

Not necessarily. I don't have anything particularly damning against Mirth.

So she is scum with who?. Any guesses?

Missed this, but same beliefs (and stance) as Mirth in #1329.

Korlash, you are 100% sure Crazy is scum?
If yes, then we can lynch him.
If no, then we HAVE TO Vote No lynch.

This is a false dillema. If we lynch somebody other than Crazy—that includes you—and he or she turns out to be scum, the game continues.

So we have another farside supporter. Mmm.
You are not seeing my point, Coug. Are we 100% sure someone is scum today? Will we be tomorrow? I think the probs tomorrow are higher.

[populartajo]

Farside, what are you talking about?
Coug, Im asking Mirth how she knows she isnt a weak doctor. How does she know she isnt a killing doctor. In summary, what role she thinks she is.
Korlash, Im going to get out and breath some fresh air. I think I need it. In the meanwhile, do you think voting no lynch is not valid today?