Mini 699: Insane Asylum Mafia: Game Over

[farside22]

vote: Populartajo

I want to know why he was concerned about being scum in this game.
(See theme game queue)

[farside22]

Miller claim from tajo. Only one game I had a miller claimed day one and it was indeed the correct thing to do. Of course I don't know how many people here read what to do and not to do. I suspect one day mafia to pull such a stunt for giggles.

Unvote:

My vote will be for those that look scummy from this point on. Tajo is not exclued just because of the quick claim or comment.

[farside22]

I do feel that if you are a Miller that claiming Day One was the right thing to do. There is no doubt in our mind about that. However, as farside said, "I suspect one day mafia to pull such a stunt for giggles."


Also, I agree that Death Miller is a wretched role.

This ^

I never like to believe someone claim out and out. I always in the back of my mind believe scum can fake claim such a role.
But like I said after this my vote will be based on scumminess not the role claim of tajo.

[farside22]

I still go by not buying the claims out the bat and judging players by their actions. With that said two claimed millers is a dozy and something I can't even comprehend.
Llama I'm not sure why you are against lynching either player. Shouldn't it be based on how they play and how much they scum hunt then their claim.
I will be honest I'ved played around with the idea of claiming miller as scum in the back of my head so to me a day 1 claim is not a glowing endorsement of town. I can't be the only person who's had that thought.

[farside22]

3 millers! I just can't believe it. Something stinks in denmark.

[farside22]

I am sufficiently convinced that Mana_ku is a miller. That would be an accurate paraphrase of what I got. I don't consider it to have much flavor. I didn't say I didn't have any flavor I said it was on par if not a little less than the sample townie role. It's very little flavor. Nothing to the extent of populartajo's though.

I got this explanation approved with FL: "I am a miller. Everyone is suspcious of me and I act suspciously at night. Cops will always see me as Mafia" I felt saying something about the doing stuff at night was too close to the actual to be "paraphrasing".

Looking at this and then Manua and tajo. I lean more on believe tajo right now. But juls back and forth about no flavor text to almost saying word for word what manu said is very disconcerning to me.
Juls: Why did you orginally say there was no flavor text?

[farside22]

Typically busy on the weekends will catch up and post on Monday.

[farside22]

First things first:

juls, as i said, it is not about the strategy you use, it is about the reasoning behind it

To which reasoning do you refer?

The reason I say Mana_ku should know I am telling the truth is because I know the language of the role and her paraphrase is almost identical. How would I know that if I didn't have the language myself? And I also know now based on Mana_ku's paraphrase that she is indeed a miller.

I seriously don't get this "worry" you have. Oh God! The stupid player is going to annoy me. Is that your worry? I don't want to get in a fight here but you are coming off as if it's not that you don't believe me but that you don't want to play with someone that isn't at your superior level of play.

For a minute pretend that you were a miller and you had planned to adopt a strategy of not seeming suspicious. What would you have done after tajo claimed?

I think my problem with you saying this is that Manu was the first one to claim actual flavor text so you saying she should agree with you is poor reasoning.
Now I'm kind of done with the miller claims. I am not going to judge these claims. Someone may be lying, but I will not just focus on the 3.
Cov: Can you explain why you vote and unvote every time?
Tajo: Is saying someone is off really the best you can do on page six when voting for someone?
SC: Saying I have protown vibes for players is sucking up to a player and I see scum suck up to players they know are town to look town.

vote: SC

[farside22]

SC: Saying I have protown vibes for players is sucking up to a player and I see scum suck up to players they know are town to look town.

I never said that; in fact, I hadn't even addressed you before now. I said that I wanted to leave the millers alone and that I believe LlamaFluff and Mirth to be town at this moment. I know what I am, which leaves six people including you. I understand Mirth's "suck-up" concern, but you just voted me based on incorrect information.

Vote: farside22

for strawmanning.

Let's add OMGUS vote on top of butt kissing. I explained myself how the heck is that strawman? A little bit of a panic for one vote?
I am telling you I see scum suck up to townies.

[farside22]

You said that I said you were giving me protown vibes; I made no such statement about you.

That wasn't I as in me. It was I as in you. Saying "I have protown vibes for player x and y".

[farside22]

I'm going to say one thing on Juls request and then read what I missed and comment about that later.

I feel Juls was truly fustrated. I know scum get fustrated, but so do people as town. I don't believe anyone did anything wrong. It's hard being a newb and being questioned and questioned and feeling like people are being hard on you. It's not an uncomman thing I have run across on this site. I feel her actions are a null tell.

[farside22]

Okay I caught up. Joy!

Llama: I see a lot of your questions to Juls I felt like you were trying to corner her as a trap that was more of a no win situation for her. Post 169, 171 and 173. Why did you think her answer on her vote wasn't sufficiate? Just going to say not everyone thinks about what they are saying and looking back at what they said before. I know scum will more then town. Post 185 I have to say the defense and reasoning on everything Electra brought up is sound. Question: Do you believe that we should just ignore or not lynch a claimed miller day 1? Why?
SC: What is with defending Llama on issues that Electra brought up?
tajo: Post 196 are you really writing off Pent based on newbness? Post 209 I think pent meant mini game that was not newbie it isn't a lie.
Mana: Post 199: I don't get why you voted Electra when it seems most of your post was in regards to stef and Penta's play more.
stef: Post 211 with all that has happened you have nothing to say. no suspects to mention?
Shadow: Why do you believe the miller claims?

Pent: Forgive me for a moment. Who at this moment do you believe is scum and why? Just a brief thought would be awesome.
Also before I'm asked there is a reason I'm asking Pent only thanks.

Mod: My vote is on SC

Heehee, sorry, missed this til now. Fixing, though it might be a moot point
-fl

[farside22]

I mentioned Stef and Penta as Electra voted Penta based upon 'short posts which say nothing'. She did so after Juls pointed this out. However, in my opinion Penta has more information in his posts than Stef. Then I start wondering if Electra only followed Juls instead of doing the scumhunt herself.
But I also included the flavour thing as reason for my vote and her attack against Llama. However, she needs to give some comments about Llama's explanation before I'll give my opinion about this.

At the time Penta's post where mostly one liners. I agree that Stef has been less then conversationaly lets say.
I'm going to wait to see what Penta says before I post more about him.

[farside22]

second, farside, why criticize llama's attack of juls but not mine.

I started my read with my last post I saw llama attacks from my last post and the comments he made. I don't recall what you said to Juls but I will go back and look.

@SG: I hoped to get some pressure-related response from you. I didn't. I wasn't counting on anyone else following me since that wasn't the purpose.

That makes no sense. One vote isn't going to pressure anyone or it shouldn't.

[farside22]

Llama: I see a lot of your questions to Juls I felt like you were trying to corner her as a trap that was more of a no win situation for her. Post 169, 171 and 173. Why did you think her answer on her vote wasn't sufficiate?

I saw a contridiction between post 167 and 170. In 167 the vote against penta was defined in two points, with a breif mention of lurking. When I pressured in 169 to see how much of a factor lurking was playing, post 170 and 172 made it sound like the vote was for pressure then a serious vote, despite having multiple reasons listed in 167.

I don't know reading it I felt she thought both were true and not a contradiction.

[farside22]

Llama: I see a lot of your questions to Juls I felt like you were trying to corner her as a trap that was more of a no win situation for her. Post 169, 171 and 173. Why did you think her answer on her vote wasn't sufficiate?

I saw a contridiction between post 167 and 170. In 167 the vote against penta was defined in two points, with a breif mention of lurking. When I pressured in 169 to see how much of a factor lurking was playing, post 170 and 172 made it sound like the vote was for pressure then a serious vote, despite having multiple reasons listed in 167.

I don't know reading it I felt she thought both were true and not a contradiction.

I should add not till you pointed it out as a contradiction.

[farside22]

so still no comments on me, farside

I think Post 102 is a bit harsh. Yes I don't like the newbie card however if Juls is telling the truth I could excuse her actions.
I don't feel you were calling her a bad player as she stated. I think it was just as I stated her post saying there was no flavor to then stating her text was like MK. She does state she didn't know that is what people meant by flavor text, but I cant for the life of me understand why she didnt' know that.
I agreed with post 118. Mostly I would say either Juls was scum who was fake claiming between what you said and what she said or someone highly emotional where there was no need to be.

[farside22]

soooo why exactly are you attacking llama then

Llama's comments felt like a trap. There is a difference on how you ask questions and what you said to Juls.
Also that wasn't an attack or wasn't meant to be. I made notes about what happened with my last post and things that I didn't like about a bunch of players.

[farside22]

no comments then on tajo saying my questions were a trap

I don't see where tajo said this. I just looked at all his post and found nothing about you and trap anywhere.

[farside22]

he kept saying that my question was meant to imply juls should have claimed miller first post. reread that bit. hes implicitly accusing me of phrasing my question in a trapping manner. but i dont see why you think llama was setting a trap. i dont like the inconsistancy of judgement

You stated that Juls should have had made a claim in her first post. I dont' see a problem with that. I did see tajo said this:

There's something I dont like in that imposed question. Like it was bad to not to have claimed in her first post when it was pretty possible that it was the first time Juls had interacted with the miller role.

I don't see it that way. Llama however mentions a difference between one post that Juls made and another and I can see where she thought both might be the same thing. Its something many a newb are confused about. That seems more of a trap move then your comment.

Why all the defense of Llama?

[farside22]

Llama's comments felt like a trap.

How so?

I was pushing at what looked like what a contridiction to see if it was or wasnt. I could see it considered a trap in the form of "If she contridicts herself I vote her" but using that line of logic any form of questioning can be used to "trap" another player.

I read her answers and no matter what her answer to your last question it was a trap.

Mirth: You are incorrect. I question Llama because of what he asked not because of Juls break down. I thought one comment you made was snide but I don't see any question you asked as scummy.

[farside22]

Maybe it's just because I'm nicer to newbs then some people. I recall Mirth giving a newb a hard time based on something she called scummy in a game and I saw as no big deal. She ended up being scum. So I look at things like that a bit more.

[farside22]

which is why i'm thinking its suspicious how easily you write me off here.

[llama. for the record, i tend not to lay off the newbs just because they're newbs. i might be more tolerant of their mistakes personally and will probably explain my actions to a much greater degree, but i see no reason to treat them in a special manner because that isn't teaching them how to play the game by letting them get away with being scummy. then again, im just mean to everyone. farside can attest to this since she's neglected to mention that i've been like this in every game i've played with her.]

You two asked two difference questions. His was a comparision is a loss, loss situation for her. No answer will be sufficate in that case. You were being a bit of a jerk to her, but I felt you were trying to explain your reasons and she got a little emotional for really poor reasoning.
Once again there is a difference. I will just keep saying that over and over till you get the point.
How do you not see a difference between your comments and questions and Llama's?

[farside22]

Posting to avoid a prod. Nothing new to contribute.

You know you are not voting anyone. There is conversation going on and this is the best you offer?

[farside22]

It would also be great if Farside could show the difference she sees between Llama's and Mirth's attack against Juls.

Putting this here as a reminder to get quotes tomorrow morning that shows a difference between Mirth and Llama questions.

[farside22]

i agree that of the three claims, juls's is the most suspicious. also to bring up what cor said awhile back, it is theoretically possible for 2 scum to both claim miller, when one dies, the other is 'confirmed.' hmmm...

juls, you did not claim in your first post. why

How is this question a trap? Mirth wanted to know why Juls didn't post this first because of the claim by tajo. I see no harm in this question.

Mirth, are you saying that Juls had to claim in his first post?

no. i am asking why

she

did not claim in

her

first post.

tajo questions Mirth, but I don't see why.

it is possible it is jul's first time in a game with a miller, but what is unsettling for me is that when someone gets a weird role like that and theyve never seen it before, playing it blind is a bad move. it is the best idea to look into the dynamics of the role by either looking through the wiki, mafia discussion, or past games with it in it. juls just confirmed that she was not aware of the theory behind the miller role, thus she didnt do any of the above. i was unsure of this until she answered my question. i wanted her reasoning for not claiming, since lots of people do subscribe to the 'play it like a townie' school of thought, and i wanted to know if she was one of them or if there was something else going on there.

juls is the most suspicious one because she said she did not have flavour yet later backtracked to ditto mana's role. yet juls cannot know the exact wording of mana's role or if mana is leaving anything out [i think mana is, but i will not push this issue, and ask that no one else pushes it], yet she said that that was her role too. she cannot know this, and she did not specify for a while, despite questioning, whether she was normal or death. this rings major alarm bells for me. you are second most suspicious for the fact that you claimed death miller because of the very nature of the role itself. i think mana is the least suspicious of the three of you because of the order of the claim, but im not going to form any complete opinions on any of you for the time being.

I stated this myself, However I find Mirth to be a bit mean in her comments. Just because juls did state that there was no flavor then backed up when MK mentioned her text saying she didn't know that was the flavor text was. That's iffy reasoning in my view.

juls, as i said, it is not about the strategy you use, it is about the reasoning behind it. and you continue to worry me by saying that should know you're telling the truth. there is only one way for mana to know whether you're definately lying or not, and if mana is telling the truth, then mana can't know if you are.

Once again I agree with this. MK stated her role and the text first. How would MK know that Juls is telling the truth?

[
@Juls - Why not someone like stef or MK if you are looking for a lurker lynch? Why even a lurker lynch since it only "could" be a scum tell?

First question is legit. Why one person over the other.

So it was a pressure vote and not a vote with lynch intention?

Juls stated between the 3 lurkers. Mk she believe and step stated he was on V/LA.

Like I said, there isn't much to go on yet so yes it was more of a pressure vote than a lynch vote.

Really?

I think that he is the best place to put my vote at the moment. It's not a lot to go on but it's more than I have seen from anyone else. I think lurking can be a scumtell especially early in a game. It could come from two reasons 1) not being able to formulate a "fake" argument against someone or 2) trying not to be seen.

Dont see that as pressure vote reasons

I think there was no right answer at this point and it is in fact a trap question. No answers is going to be the correct answer. I can see where she thought both reason's were valid.

[farside22]

*Sigh* Electra, you have broken rule number 2 for jackassery by not only linking 2 ongoing games...but an ongoing game that I'm PLAYING with you. I mean, seriously. Deciding on a course of action right now. Suffice it to say I'm removing her links.

I hope no one else does these things, since I really don't need to have the ongoing games rule broken.

I would say add the rule about linking ongoing games as part of the rules and give Electa a warning that you feel works. Not that any player should ever, ever talk about ongoing games, but since it wasn't in the rules.....I don't know I will just leave it up to you in the end.

[farside22]

*Sigh* Electra, you have broken rule number 2 for jackassery by not only linking 2 ongoing games...but an ongoing game that I'm PLAYING with you. I mean, seriously. Deciding on a course of action right now. Suffice it to say I'm removing her links.

I hope no one else does these things, since I really don't need to have the ongoing games rule broken.

I would say add the rule about linking ongoing games as part of the rules and give Electa a warning that you feel works. Not that any player should ever, ever talk about ongoing games, but since it wasn't in the rules.....I don't know I will just leave it up to you in the end.

It's a site wide rule. It's not something you should have to put in your boilerplate. Also, it does fall under jackassery since you are breaking a site wide rule, I would think. I'll probably lean towards a warning but I'm consulting with nonny to see what the best move would be. Not used to having a rule broken

I understand. I'm one of those mod's that really don't like to mod kill unless necessary and find ways to figure what is best to do. I got the impression from your post you feel the same way.

[farside22]

Yes, I do think its a good idea that everybody claim if they are millers or not. I dont want posterior "new miller" scenarios.

I am not miller.

[farside22]

I do not believe I am a miller, but who knows except the mod?

The PM from the mod is a good indicator. Do you not have your PM any more or what?

[farside22]

not a miller

What was the point of this, I'm pretty sure all the millers claimed. :p

Farside, I'm still not seeing that as a trap. Looks more like pressuring the babbling/overdefensive newbie to me. So I still fail to see the issue.

The point is, he asked if it was a pressure vote or a vote with lynch intention. She responded with it's a pressure vote, and he said that it doesn't sound like a pressure vote to him (which I disagree). If she responded a vote with lynch intention, then his response could be, why would you vote with lynch intention when you said there wasn't much to go on?

I was wondering if I was the only one who saw it that way. Like I said there was no right answer for Juls to give, hence a trap question at the end.

[farside22]

I am not a miller.
I also think all millers had already claimed in this thriller.

Does this mean you believe Juls/SG? What about Crazy did it seem he hinted at have a miller role?

2 claims means someone is likely lying.

3 (or 4, *cough*) claims means mod's a bastard.

It's most likely that none of them are lying. If any one of them is, it's Juls.

See, Mana_Ku wouldn't claim at that point as scum in any universe. If two town players just counter-claimed each other, and you're scum, think, do you have any desire to counterclaim them? When the attention is completely off of you?

I have some reason for trusting Tajo here, but trust me in that it's best I don't explain further yet.

Unvote, Vote Electra

Electra, as you said in #76, why do you believe MK's counter-claim is likely to be a scum gambit?

When asked he has yet to state anything in regards to this post.

[farside22]

Yeah riiight.

Confirm vote:Stef.

Okay I'll bite why the vote?

[farside22]

This game isnt hard, farside. Three/four millers are indeed new but they dont make the game difficult at all. I bet that I catched him lurking (since he was posting in his other games) and couldnt come out with a good post after it.

I don't get it either. What do you expect the person who will have to replace will be able to really say?
I have only one person I really now who plays scum terribly and usually is replaced for not posting and he is a post-aholic.

[farside22]

People you have to start diferentiating between buddying up and being friendly.

Just commenting that I dislike people using ongoing games in any manner and expecting others to just understand. Each game should be treated different because no one knows each others alignment except scum.

[farside22]

Aww, farside. Let me make some friends. /sad face.

I suggest mish mash games if you want friends. Not mafia games.

FOS: tajo

I'm not will to lynch you at this time, but I don't care for people using that method it is scummy to try and say, but ah we are friends why the hate.
Also why are you asking MK or Crazy about the tracking? Why aren't you pushing SG on this?
Also why is everyone fixated on tajo asking the claimed millers this question. He was the first to claim does that not make a difference?

[farside22]

I think that the existence of massive millers proves that I am a miller.
And of all the actual and possible posterior miller claims, Juls/Shadowgirl's is the one I most believe.

Why MK was the first one to talk about the flavor text? Juls stated hers read the same way and believed MK.

[farside22]

I could have sworn people agreed when I stated that people should be judged on scumminess not a claim that may or may not be fake.
As for tajo's claim. I lean on believing it, but I dont' like him throwing it up there as a defense.

[farside22]

its really not at all helpful for just everyone to agree to policy lynch him because that would be a complete waste of day 1 information-wise, as argument would be limited to that. it would cut off all other lines of inquiry for the day, pretty much, and result in a lynch where instead of a real argument about his play, it would result in finger pointing on wagon positions based on an unknown.

So you think it is better to mislynch a townie, which is a possibility, than to lynch populartajo, who will for sure flip scum?

I just don't get this. We don't know if there is a death miller. If tajo is scum. I would rather look at scummy actions then push for an unknown. I don't care for how you automatically feel tajo is scum based on his claim more then his play.

unvote:
vote: SlySly

[farside22]

The problem with what Sly is doing is taking out the possiblity of a vig. There could be one there may not. I think tajo's claim can dirty the waters, but I don't believe lynching someone as a claimed death miller is the answer.
Saying he flips scum either way is bad. If he's scum great, but we won't know for sure either way if he is telling the truth or lying, all tajo's death will do is most likely do is flip scum without answers.

[farside22]

Sly is amazing how you cant make a case on someone besides me. On 20 pages. There arent other suspects in your book other than me. The worst thing is that your case is incredibly weak. This further proves my theory that you didnt reread the game looking for scumtells, that you only looked for the easiest to lynch and and that you are pushing this because backtracking in this exact moment would be worse.

QFT.
I don't believe in policy lynches. I would rather lynch on action then a claim. Anyone can claim a role where true or untrue the point is to go on what you read and how the person acts.
I dont' think tajo should relay on his claim only. You did state that way back when. People want to hear from you and you can't believe your claim alone should stop people from questioning you further tajo.

[farside22]

there is no guarantee day 1 [or really any other day].

You are wrong. Lynching tajo guarantees that we lynch someone who will flip scum.

you're purposing an impossible scenario that effectively gluing any and all discussion to tajo, who's lynch will tell us nothing.

His lynch will tell us plenty. We won't have to wonder for even 1 second if tajo is responsible for any scummy night actions.

What?!?!

Okay I get your comments about tajo's half claim. He claims miller then after being asked brings up death miller. What does scum gain by doing this?
The only thing I will grant you is that you brought up points against tajo I think he should address. SC meantioned that you didn't bring up any of these points earlier, which is true.

[farside22]

tajo, regardless of how much sly's 'case' on you sucks, your 'case' on stef sucks just as much and it bothers me that you keep bringing it up. stef was seriously having rl issues with timing

and he was playing triage. this is not a tell of anything. you insisting that it is bothers me a lot.

I saw Stef playing another game, so it is questionable when he picks and chooses games that he stays in and leaves no matter the reason. It looks bad especially with his weak reason when he ask for replacement. No where did he state "RL issues require replacement" He stated he was confused after being prodded by tajo for answers.

[farside22]

That was EK's game. The oen that had a miller but no cop and a GF. That was great because the scum and the town both wonder if a cop would come up.

[farside22]

I'm a bit behind in a couple of game. Give me till tomorrow and I will have something for this game.

[farside22]

I decided to tackle this game first. I would rather read the 3 pages I'm behind the 15 pages.
Anyways:
Sly stated:

If I am lynched today, the thoughts of mine that you seek will die with me. Unless, of course, someone else mentions some of the things I have noticed about a few others, at which point I will join the discussion.

this sounds like you are not going to share you thoughts. I see later you bring up the lurkers. So what it either lurkers are tajo? Nothing else noted.

Llama says:

Lets say we do lynch him, what does that accomplish? Maybe some role gets lucky, who knows. Most likely though we just get screwed over with scum taking thier pick of night kills to suit them best. Then what? We have nothing to go on day one. We lynched a "who knows?" role. There are no connections to go on, no leads that couldnt of been used the previous day. We are basically at D1 again, with one dead, and not knowing if tajo was scum or not. We will have no clue when lylo is, we will have no clue if connection there are helpful, we are just at a dead end.

The problem with this is either tajo is scum or town. I'm trying not to do the whole WIFOM on this. However if tajo looks scummy I will vote for his lynch. I'm not going to be swayed by policy or this flip no information either way. Scum is scum enough said.

Llama says:

W

hat do you mean "not having doubt his alignment"? You doubt everyones alignment. Miller, vanilla, PR, you never know untill they flip. With tajo we wont even know then, someone tracking or something to that extent is the only way to ever prove his alignment as scum.

Lets not assume or point out things like this hmm. Looks scummy to try and direct power roles.

[farside22]

Electra has failed to post in 48 hours after being prodded. Hoopla replaces Electra

Not to be a stickler but Electra posted yesterday.

[farside22]

SC: Did you vote for penta? Why not push harder like Llama if you feel he is scum.
I agree that Sly needs to claim with 3 days left.

[farside22]

my problems with sly lie more with his certainty that any other lynch than tajo will be a mislynch not his not the rest of his nonsense.

No other case presented comes even close to a guaranteed scum flipping lynch.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone calling for my claim now? According to several, I have already claimed. I pointed out earlier that I had not claimed, I guess others are finally realizing that I didn't.

Who said you claimed? Why did you not claim in this post?

[farside22]

-

Who said you claimed?

Maybe you should do some reading. It is quite scummy of you to ask.

Why did you not claim in this post?

It is in the best interests of the town that I not claim outright.
.

1. I asked because I didnt' find anything were people stated you claimed already. I don't see asking a question where I don't see what you are claiming = scummy. Your lack of anwsers are scummy to me.
2. Two days till end of day not claiming if you are town is bad. Waiting to look for a safe claim or think one up is what I see you are doing at this point.

[farside22]

Mod: Please note sig. More likely limited access then Vacation. It depends on a few things.

[farside22]

One: Not keen on a tajo lynch since it seems the major point of sly's case is the policy lynch.
Two: Thinking about whether Sly could just be a misguided townie and I'm wondering if stalling for the claim is trying to think something or whether his role is benificial to town...

Seeing as we are two days away from deadline I say stalling. If you were a townie with a benifical role claim so we don't mislynch.

[farside22]

Un-FoS: corporate

since he explained his vote away as a joke.

Joking at this time is still bad no matter what. The deadline is tomorrow and there is no reason for Sly to up and disappear without a claim.

[farside22]

Corporate, too bad
I ain't telling you shiz, scum
Makes town better off

Mildly amusing, but probably wouldn't win in a tie situation against a sufficiently awesome opponent

*back to lurking*

Was that a haiku? Man I'm going to suck at writing one if I ever have to.

Back to game.
Listen Sly. Not claiming doesn't help. If you are a power role that is important you could be safe for a night. We don't know what exsist. We don't know what the mod planned for. I think you don't have a role claim at this point. I don't know what you think you are doing but it is anti town.

[farside22]

SlySly has chosen not to claim; therefore, he needs to die.

That's probably going to happen as no one has or will change there vote. Of course no one has hammered him either. Tomorrow is deadline and Sly has chosen to be anti town = scum in this matter.

[farside22]

Damn, Corporate, you know Shadowgirl and me are a couple in real life, right?
Easy with that, boy.

um my bad? you gotta take things like that with a grain of salt, i hit on everyone, just for kicks. you better be careful tajo, you might be next :p

besides all i have to go on here is a picture of a tree. and im way more shallow than that.

Trust me, if she had her picture there, I would have to fight every day for her.

Ahhh that is so sweet!!

[farside22]

Hi I'm back from limited access. I need a reread but I'm a bit behind a few other places. I will get back here on Tuesday or Wedensday the latest.

[farside22]

tajo how did I get ignored from your review of each player? I'm not invisible.
Right now just based on what I remember I didn't not like Coorvus comment at the end of the day about being dispointed in the Sly lynch. Seems like a scum slip to me.

FOS: Coorvus

I will have my own notes and comments by the end of the day.

[farside22]

Corvuus would like those who say it is a scum slip to say why they think it is a scum slip.

Corvuus considers the comment and the deadline vote more of a null tell than anything else, so explain why it is scummy to you.

Only scum know who is town and who is scum. Saying people would be disappointed implies knoweledge that Sly would flip town.

[farside22]

tajo: Why do you think people asking for an extension was scummy? Why only point to those people?
electra: I don't like the fact you are making post but not reading the thread. Mirth's post about what you said in regards to Sly implies you were reading something but not enough to see the mod stating how many request it would take to have an extension?

FOS: Electra

Corv: First no fault of your own but I HATE THE REFERING TO YOUR SELF IN THE 3RD PERSON TALK. Okay I feel better. How can you say that it's not a scum slip commenting on the disappointed of Sly's lynch. Do you think Electra's comment about Sly is the same as yours?

[farside22]

sure that makes sense. if you take everything i was doing out of context and try to make a big deal out of nothing. like scum try to do.

This isn't really a replay is it? I mean Mirth has a valid point and you just say that scum believe your post were without meaning?
First did you or did you not come in and just post saying it was between Sly or tajo?
Second did you or did you not post stating your thoughts on each player as mostly one liners with no real effort?
Third how hard is it to put more into a post on each player and your views on who is scum and why?
Typically scum have a harder time doing the 3rd part which is why Mirth is driving the point more.

[farside22]

sure that makes sense. if you take everything i was doing out of context and try to make a big deal out of nothing. like scum try to do.

This isn't really a replay is it? I mean Mirth has a valid point and you just say that scum believe your post were without meaning?
First did you or did you not come in and just post saying it was between Sly or tajo?
Second did you or did you not post stating your thoughts on each player as mostly one liners with no real effort?
Third how hard is it to put more into a post on each player and your views on who is scum and why?
Typically scum have a harder time doing the 3rd part which is why Mirth is driving the point more.

1) not really. at the moment i came in i did feel that it was a sly or tajo moment and since i felt sly was scummy anyways i was ok with that. i voted accordingly.

2) im a man of few words, but i feel that was good enough.

3) see 2 or meta.

3) You have been here barely a month how much meta do you have exactly?

[farside22]

I agree with corpo here. Mirth you are taking this out of proportion. Like, do you really think that corpo switched votes in a serious way or is this the first time you face a player of his kind? If he's non helpful town as I suspect, he screams "Im so an easy target for scum".
I still dont get what made him more scum than Sly in late game. You voted for Sly, therefore you thought he was scum. Then why a weak tell (bad attitude) made you change your mind?

Farside, are you really pushing corpo's case?

No I see a point as not posting your thoughts on people and one liners can be considered scum by standards. I don't really get a scum vibe reading corp but I would like to see him give more information.

[farside22]

sorry, if i dont live up to your standards.... dad.

I sorry I have to just laugh at this.

I will say this corporate is unconventional. Scummy no, sarcastic absolutely.

[farside22]

@Penta: Looking at your post with vote on SC. I see nothing there that really shows how SC is scum. You talk about Elect and corpor but vote for SC based on what? Day 1 where you all but disappeared after the fact?

[farside22]

Updating a few games and doctor appointment today. I will catch up later this afternoon.
Thanks

[farside22]

I have a list.
Prob town
Shadowgirl, Corpo, Crazy,
Neutral
Coorvus (yeah, Ive been thinking about this lately) Penta, Coug
Prob scum
Farside, Mirth, Electra.

Lets see if I get famous someday.

Giving your town list is helpful to scum more then town. Also I would like to see reason on why Electra and myself as scum. I already know your case on Mirth is gut feeling? Is there anything else.
Also why do people think going against someone who is easy is scummy?
I don't agree with Mirth I just don't like the only scum attack easy attacks against people who don't do crap excuse.

[farside22]

Scratch that. Electra is also neutral. I had the feeling she was lurking but I just reread her and his first nonrandom posts are pretty decent.
Well, farside, I just explained some posts ago why I am voting Mirth. Its not only gut.
And you, well, just look at you. You just attacked corpo for being a weak player, right, or becuase you though he was scum?

How did I attack Corpo? I made a comment on his playstyle. How about getting some facts right before accusing me of anything. As for Mirth I will have to read up. I'm a bit behind.

[farside22]

@Penta: Looking at your post with vote on SC. I see nothing there that really shows how SC is scum. You talk about Elect and corpor but vote for SC based on what? Day 1 where you all but disappeared after the fact?

Farside, what are your thoughts of Mirth and Corvus?

Reminding my self to answer this question tomorrow.

[farside22]

Sorry I'm having trouble getting my head in this game. I'm trying to be good and keep up. Some other games came up and have just been beating me down.
I will have something here today if not slap me in 24 hours.

[farside22]

Thats a probability we should consider but Mana claimed miller and corpo strangely feels idiotic town to me.
Where I am going to is the fact that Corpo hasnt done anything that could reveal allignment or could deserve votes. Or am I missing something? Therefore his read should be a null tell to experienced players like Mirth.
The best example I can think of is this : Voting for me was a joke but Mirth thinks is a scumtell, right?

People shouldn't be allowed to say well I'm an easy target you suck therefore scum as responses.

[farside22]

Thats a probability we should consider but Mana claimed miller and corpo strangely feels idiotic town to me.
Where I am going to is the fact that Corpo hasnt done anything that could reveal allignment or could deserve votes. Or am I missing something? Therefore his read should be a null tell to experienced players like Mirth.
The best example I can think of is this : Voting for me was a joke but Mirth thinks is a scumtell, right?

People shouldn't be allowed to say well I'm an easy target you suck therefore scum as responses.

I agree but do you think corpo is scum or town?

Well looking back at Mana_ku's claim early on I believed her and her miller claim.
I just don't like corpo's attitude. I believe corpo is town based on Mana and not him just so you know. Attitude does say alot about a person.

[farside22]

Thats a probability we should consider but Mana claimed miller and corpo strangely feels idiotic town to me.

Argh. This probably means I need a reread of the first ten pages seeing as I'm drawing a blank: but how does Mana claiming miller and corpo being idiotic relate to each other?

corp replaced Mana.

[farside22]

i dont see how im idiotic, anti-town, or scum. i just play different.

meh, people tend to reject things that are different. look at history.

are you going to make me ride in the back of the bus and use my own drinking fountain too, mirth?

No offense but the only reason I'm giving the beniffit of the doubt on you is because of Mana. Your little attitude is not pro-town.

[farside22]

Corvuus:
First serious vote was for one of the claimed millers. In this case Juls.
Votes llama for not reading his post correctly. Llama points out the post in question and Corv quickly backs down saying:

various people have said "flavor", "no flavor", "some flavor".
I said not mass flavor claim, but if specific flavor is aver.
Then we would be on the same page
and not lynch based on subjective gauge.

Don't feel good about this.

Not sure I get his reason for FOS on tajo here:

If we agreed to 'table' the miller plot,
you using your 'miller status' counts for squat.
None of millers are 100% confirmed to me,
and I think arguing based on that 'fact' is shady; hope you agree.

After replacement has weighed in
then discussion can begin.

Why does one person need replacement stop you from making obvservations on other things going on in the game?

I feel a contradiction here:

If I ignore the millers in my mind,
then to ignore SC's anti-townness would mean I'm blind.
He may not be scum, but his "style" sucks.
I'd rather him post a "real post townie deluxe".

However, he is only 2nd in my suspicious mind.
LlamaFluff is my #1 choice for a mafia find.

I didn't say SC was the scummiest player.
Just that his play style etc. is biggest anti-town on any layer.

The problem I have with these two statements is that Corv is saying that he thinks llama mafia for ignoring SC, but then states that he didn't say SC was the scummiest player.
Then why did it matter if Llama ignored SC then?

Corv votes for tajo saying that he doesn't like the fact that tajo's post don't seem like a miller. Is this because tajo kept asking the 2 claimed millers questions that he himself would not answer?

Keeps talking about tajo's plan. Did you feel you got a reply to his plan?


I do have to say this quote has a point:

How could you, a death miller, with a 'different' PM have verified them?
Why wouldn't you answer first;ask "the other miller", afraid to condemn?

This post still bothers me:

So, yes it is anti-town for Sly to refuse information at this point.
I just don't see what we would talk about in day 2, except be disappoint.

The problem with Corv's reason for being disappointed really isn't the point.

(forgive me a second here)

Lets say for a moment we don't know Sly's alignment.
If he flips scum we look at those who tried to stop the lynch and why. Those are people who could have been Sly's scum buddy.
If Sly flips town (which we now know) I think this makes things harder because he was in a sense anti-town in his beliefs. Only this reason when you state disappointment does it looks scummy as if someone knows someone will flip town and say see I told you think they are town for not voting that person.


Day 2 and Corv's is back to Tajo. For Tajo saying that people who asked for a deadline were most likely scum.

Kind of agree. I don't think it matter who as and who didn't ask. I think that is just a reach and a big leap at that.


Ove and over Corv keeps attacking tajo. Some of the attacks it seems is because of tajo asking the other millers for answers. (Which I believe was tajo verifing the claims made by the millers). Also his vote today seems to be based on tajo's comments about people asking for a deadline was scummy. Which I agree is a weak reason to vote or claim someone is scummy. Anyone can ask for a deadline it was a holiday weekend I think it's a null tell myself.
Most of today I don't get a good read on Corv.

[farside22]

Corvuus is not one of the claimed millers, right?

No Corvuus is not a claimed miller.

[farside22]

There's three of them. There's populartajo, there's corporate, and I forgot the third and am too lazy to go back and check who it is.

Looking at #922.

SG

[farside22]

A couple things I want to comment on.

After replacement has weighed in
then discussion can begin.

Why does one person need replacement stop you from making obvservations on other things going on in the game?

Good question. I'm kind of sitting back waiting on Pentadragon (though I shouldn't, I know), but no one else is pinging my scumdar too much right now. Even so, Pentadragon's case on me was crap even when it was current, and I feel like he's ignoring my requests to bring it up to date. Trying to lurk, Penta?

I feel a contradiction here:

If I ignore the millers in my mind,
then to ignore SC's anti-townness would mean I'm blind.
He may not be scum, but his "style" sucks.
I'd rather him post a "real post townie deluxe".

However, he is only 2nd in my suspicious mind.
LlamaFluff is my #1 choice for a mafia find.

I didn't say SC was the scummiest player.
Just that his play style etc. is biggest anti-town on any layer.

The problem I have with these two statements is that Corv is saying that he thinks llama mafia for ignoring SC, but then states that he didn't say SC was the scummiest player.
Then why did it matter if Llama ignored SC then?

I don't sense a contradiction here—LlamaFluff was his #1; I was his #2. LlamaFluff is dead; I know what I am. Nothing you quoted here, however, suggests to me that Corvuus thought LlamaFluff was ignoring me.

You know I read it differently and now that you pointed it out I realized I misread the statements. Sorry Corv can ignore that.

[farside22]

God, I have the goddamn feeling that farside is scum with Mirth.
I believe the millers : corpo and SG. Crazy also feels town.
I think Coorvus is neutral, I think we both have understood that although we dont agree in the majority of points that doesnt make the other scum.
That leaves Mirth, Coug, Penta, Farside and Electra as all possible candidats. I dont see Coug-Penta and I will prob need to reread to find out more connections but those are my two cents regarding the scum team. I cant be extremely wrong in this.

Your the one who asked me to do my thoughts on Corv and Mirth. I started with Corv. What is your issue with what I just posted exactly?

[farside22]

Ok. Waiting for your Mirth analysis.

What is your issue with what I just posted exactly?

[farside22]

Okay I had lots to do today. Will get to Mirth Monday.

[farside22]

Mirth:

Talks about the miller claims. Mentions Juls delay in giving flavor text and then ditto's mana's claim and flavor.

I would like you to explain more on your vote on Penta stating his post were useless. How did you feel they were useless.

Attacks many players from tajo, to electa, me, juls. Seems a bit all over the place

Defends Stef for weak reasoning (see him post other games. Signed up for new games)

Vote on tajo is because of this:

i have a feeling that comment from llama was to me. im voting him because of his use of his claim as a shield not because of the claim itself. and yes, tajo is right. why not comments on sly

I think there should be more to focus on then just this.


I have an issue with this statement:

as for sly, i was actually considering changing my vote to him for his last comment. but i want answers first from both him and you. the two of you are rather sure that the other i scum.

No where before this comment did mirth bring up a reason to vote Sly. This comment just seems out of the blue at this point.

I don't believe that Sly coming in and debating as he did was vote worthy at the time of Mirth's vote.

Mirth's post analyis is kind of weak. It just a bunch of why's rubs me wrong and questions. I get nothing really from it oh and this is just weak, weak, weak.

Conclusion; I don't like Penta's play for early stuff, don't like Tajo's play for some stuff, and don't like Sly's nonsense, but I really really really don't like Corporate's useless comments, his refusal to state a real opinion [he still has not done so despite promising], and his joking around instead of actually playing. I put my vote on him provisionally to see what happened, but his actions bother me enough that my vote will stay there and rot now.

I got up to the end of day 2 and need a mental break. I do find at this point especially that last post the Mirth is just running off one weak reason after another for attacking people. There has been little to nothing as far as votes go with any reason behind them.

Next up will be the conclusion of this and then Electra is next.

[farside22]

I feel like I'm the only person here now.

[farside22]

Next up will be the conclusion of this and then Electra is next.

Keep going, girl. Im very interested in your conclusion.

I can't tell you the number of times I have made a big post and no one says anything. It always makes me feel weird. Like wow did I just hurt people's head or what.

[farside22]

Mirth continued:

Day 3 votes for corp for why exactly? All I see is the continuing push of asking him to post a case.

I mean really this is the best we get for vote reason:

Eh, think what you want. I agree Sly was pretty awful, but I think Corporate was acting more scummy toward the end there what with the snarky comments instead of game play, the refusing to post the player analysis he promised, and so on.

As to why I'm voting Corporate, I have stated that already. Please actually read my post. Your lie here about not being around really makes me want to switch my vote to you.

I read the case if you will it's really a weak case to vote on for day 2


I do agree that asking for a deadline extension is weak reason to believe player is scum.



I disagree that an extension would have changed Sly lack of claim. He seemed pretty stubborn about his no claim. I see no pressure added as changing his mind.

I don't see how Corporate's lack of input is scummier or more anti town then Sly's policy lynch


I don't like Corporates actions myself or he coming in and posting who could be scum between two people, however I wonder if mirth thought about Mana and her claim and actions in the game at all.
(I look at both players as for as replacement go)

Thats what I figured, mod. So we might have an additional SK or something around too.

Where the heck did this statment come from. 1 kill is all I saw.


A lot of attacks are on Corp which I find really a weak reason to vote for someone especially day 2 and a person who claimed miller day 1 with the text Mana did before Juls did. This just doesn't add up as a good reason to vote on a person.
Do I like corp's attitude and lack of scum hunting no. Do I think he is scum. No. I just think I see a weak case being pushed based on nothing. There is so much more going on in the game besides one person who isn't giving input. Why not push Crazy or Electra for doing the same. Just doesnt make sense.

[farside22]

Heh, farside, you always make my day. I would totally love to be the father of your son.

Umm it's your girlfriend in this game.

[farside22]

Mirth: Why are you focused on Corp when others are posting as much uselessness as you say he is. Electra and Pent for example?

[farside22]

Grrrr...I had a response typed up a while ago, then comp bluescreened and crashed again. Sigh.

Farside: Actually I have expressed my issues with Electra. And am willing to switch my vote to her. But I'd prefer Corporate dead. As to the others, there's a big difference between mostly not being around and posting badly and posting consistently and posting nonsense. (this is the difference between Penta/Crazy and Corporate) Corporate is obviously following the game. He just isn't playing it. Which bothers me much much much more than someone being AWOL and coming back not to play.

Shadowgirl: I'm referring to her saying she wasn't around end of day 1. And her bad defense after that.

again, i am playing the game... dont say im not just because its not the way you want me to....

I agree and disagree corp. I think your lack of scum hunting does hurt the town. You can't just put a big A on yourself and paint mirth as a monster for demanding your opinion. You are not a saint. This is mafia where information is needed for a town win.

I don't like mirth answers for not voting for Electra or others. I think the case is weak. It's based more on a person's play style (which not helpful) is not scummy.

unvote:
vote: mirth

I still plan on doing Electra comments before deadline.

[farside22]

Electra:

As much as I'd like to push the bandwagon on tree, I feel I must abandon it, since no one else finds tree suspicious.

unvote, vote:Mana_Ku

One miller I can believe, the second miller, which was a counterclaim, I can believe. The third miller has to be a scum gambit. The whole bit about PMing forbiddenanlight reeks of scum trying to push the idea of the role being real in our minds.

Also, if you are a miller, and there are potentially two other millers in the game, why would flavor be something you judge anything by? Clearly the mod is crazy. :p

Mana_Ku wrote:
Vote Juls The miller claim actually has flavour. I'm going to PM forbiddanlight a summary of my role PM to see if I may post that.
I hope Juls will do the same.

Also Juls, get used to it. Many players call me 'he' or 'him' as well.

In this quote you vote Mana_Ku who contradaticted Juls comment about no flavor. Why is your vote for Mana in this post?


A quick unvote and then talks about how the 3 claims and one could be scum. Seems to debate about each claim. Then talks about the possiblity of 2 mafia claiming.


Blatantly following a BW.

Okay.

So I think Pentadragon is scum, for pretty much the reasons that Juls claimed recently. He has lots of short posts which say nothing. vote:Pentadragon

It bothers me that Electra is so quick to believe Juls at this point. (early day 1)

Thinks two random votes is scummy. Really? Kind of an odd thing to point out as scummy with everything else being said.


Hello contradiction:

Also, I find two random votes scummy because it's making posts but saying nothing.

It's not scummy on its own, but it's scummy combined with other things. By the way, if you were random voting now, I wouldn't find it scummy, I'd just think you were nooby. There's no reason for scum to be random voting at this point.

Lets go over your llama case for a sec here:

You think llama was scummy because of 2 random votes
Pressure Penta (although you voted Penta)
getting into a pointless discussion on flavor means (why is this pointelss when everyone had a different view point on flavor)
His pressure vote and lynch vote he explained.
The only point I agree with is autobelieving the miller claims. Everything else is mute


Why are you defending Penta here when you are voting for him:

Quote:
I attacked penta for a logical reason, and I dont like you calling it crap as fast as you have. He had his random on the miller (which is NOT why I voted him), but after the claim he kept his vote on tajo WITHOUT commenting on the claim at all. That is what was scummy.

Maybe he didn't see the claim, maybe he was still deciding what to say about it. The point is, you jumped on him instantly- this would have been a much better case if you had waited and let him continue to not say anything, then brought it up slightly later.

I really don't understand Electra reason for voting Mirth here:

unvote, vote:Mirth

I find poptajo to be essentially confirmed. It is extremely unlikely that he is scum unless the scum in this game have special information about the existence of various miller roles- his play makes sense only for town given the addition of two more miller claims.

We can't be sure, but this would be way too lucky to just be a scum gambit. Your ignoring this is very scummy. In addition, since Tajo claims a death miller, a lynch of him will tell us absolutely nothing. This is so anti-town. Usually I find anti-town and scummy actions to be different, but in this case, this is definitely both.

Looks like someone forgot a lot about this game:

prodded, sorry...

Wait, I'm voting Mirth? I thought I was voting Llamafluff or Pentagon or something... I am very out of this game and I apologize, I'll try to get back into it. xD

unvote for now

Why did you get on mirth for her comment on tajo but say this about Sly:

Also, I think Sly is misguided, but the way he's pushing this fairly pointless issue makes me think that he's moreso town.

Not paying attention to the game at deadline. I find this a bit anti town consider how weakly Electra defends sly in his anti town behavoir.

I still get nothing with Electra's reason for voting Penta, then fos's mirth.

Looking at Electra and her lack of post and reasons and comparing that to Mirth I find really weird things. The lack of comments from Mirth to Electra. Electra's back and forth from Mirth to Penta and giving Sly a pass on his comment but attacking Mirth. It looks really fishy to me.

[farside22]

Electra: It's not the lack of comments. You attack Mirth and then let it go where as she comments on you but finds others scummy in comparrision. Seems like slight scum bussing.

[farside22]

I will do Penta next and give my points on him.

[farside22]

All the players who are not voting need to post and have thoughts on who they believe is scum and why.

[farside22]

Farside: so you think I'm scum because I have no tolerance for play that is in no way protown? Please explain this to me? Also, are you trying to suggest I'm scum with Electra?

I'm voting for you because you are focused on a player based on just the fact he does not want to comply with your wishes. When others who you have pointed out are scum but did not vote for them and now that you I called you on it your voting at Electra which is a weak attempt to do what? Show me an actual case because your case on Corp is nothing. Seriously all you showed me is you don't like how he plays and the fact he doesn't want to do a list. Tell me did Electra do a list. Has Coorvus or Penta for that matter. Your reasons is flawed as many people haven't done what you are asking Corp to do.

Mirth: With deadline close I suggest a claim.

[farside22]

I'm not going to be around to much to see if Mirth answer tajo's questions.

unvote
vote: Electra

She was the second person on my list as scum.

[farside22]

I see the claims have been brought up. I wanted to say I'm fine with that. I will have more to add Monday.
Thanks

[farside22]

I htink farside is around. I want her claim in the next post, if possible.

I thought we were doing popcorn as suggested by SC?
Meh it doesn't matter if tajo is bent on knowing who I am I am cast as a simple townie.

I like the idea of popcorn so how about SC claiming.

[farside22]

I htink farside is around. I want her claim in the next post, if possible.

I thought we were doing popcorn as suggested by SC?
Meh it doesn't matter if tajo is bent on knowing who I am I am cast as a simple townie.

I like the idea of popcorn so how about SC claiming.

Do you believe Mirth's claim?

I think some flavor text is needed. I don't recall her saying anything in regards to this. Some of my case was built on Mirth's narrowminedness and here distancing from Electra. I think some flavor text is in order before I believe or disbelieve Mirth's claim
As for protecting Corv D1 as she claimed it isn't unlikely as typically those who have a PR may have a power role unless they are faking Llama is always a second choice if I feel he is town as far as who to save. I'm kind of surprised looking at day 1 and her defense of Llama she didn't protect him.

[farside22]

Well looking at Penta's profile he hasn't posted anywhere since the 18th of December. I would say replacement is more then likely here.

[farside22]

I really hate to say this so I will wait till Pent claims before giving my thoughts on the WIFOM I see SC trying to pull.
You should know that scum kills are done for WIFOM.
I think Mirth should full claim at this point. It's lylo and there is no point in with holding info.
FOS: Mirth
SC: What about Corv's claim makes you believe he is scum?
Crazy's claim as what I know as a theif role with some modifications seem a bit off to me.

[farside22]

Farside, I'll spit it out if one more person asks me. I don't think saying it will help the town any, though. Obviously, you have not read what I have already said.

You seemed to indicate it will hurt the town from what I gather. However as I said lylo is already bad. The best we can do is hope to find scum or the we do lose.

[farside22]

KORLASH!!
You belong in the here with us. I think we are all mentally unbalanced.
Would you mind so much finishing the claims for us as you are the last to claim.

[farside22]

First off. I am not sure what to believe. A cop that is NK immune feels broken to me. Korlash and sanity can be an issue. I need to read Penta again to see if he pushed a corv case. Also I would like some flavor from Korlash now on his role.
Mirth I see no reason from your post of the flavor a need to hide it or not say anything earlier.

FOS mirth

[farside22]

Just an idea. Has anyone seen cops with 1NK inmunity?TBH, I dont find them too improbable. Which makes me think... if corv is telling the truth, that means there is no doctor in the setup, right?

I have seen a game with 2 cops before but never 1 that was NK immune. I can't imagine the balance on that.

[farside22]

Just an idea. Has anyone seen cops with 1NK inmunity?TBH, I dont find them too improbable. Which makes me think... if corv is telling the truth, that means there is no doctor in the setup, right?

I have seen a game with 2 cops before but never 1 that was NK immune. I can't imagine the balance on that.

He is NK inmune or 1 shot inmune?
And where have we seen 3 claimed millers before?

Never mind I missed this comment:

I have a bulletproof vest that works, at least, one time.

I don't have to believe all 3 millers on this, but I'm not looking at SG right now. I believe you over her right now.
Sigh I had a doc and a one shot in my game as a mod before. Not hard thing to imagine. It's a lot of WIFOM if you start thinking about it. I think the best thing to do is look at each person

[farside22]

Korlash: I recall Tajo claimed miller first then when asked by mirth claimed death miller
I think Juls claimed miller next (SG) then Mana (corporate) however flavor claim between Juls and Mana was tainted. As Juls stated no flavor where Mana claimed flavor then Juls retracted. Hope that helps.

[farside22]

That does... It means the proven miller claimed last. Also what was the part about death miller? Did he claim regular miller first then switch it to death miller? Because I have to be honest with you a death miller does sound slightly too insane for this game.

But uh, thanks! ^^

tajo claimed miller. Just miller. Mirth asked if he was a death miller (which this was the first time I ever heard of a death miller) or a regular miller.
Tajo stated death miller.

[farside22]

Korlash for your info. I think the flavor seemed very plausible to me.

vote: Populartajo

I want to know why he was concerned about being scum in this game.
(See theme game queue)

Pretty much because if Mirth and Llama are town then the scum are pretty fucked up in this game.
They know why.
So Ive read some games and some theory about this but the optymal play in mi situation is to claim miller.
Kaybaythx.

Yes, I am a miller. Why would I joke about it. And I voted forb for giving me such an awful role. She has apologized, though.

However I must ask how we can know that pop is telling the truth?

Because it would be totally ridiculous for me to attract all attention in the random stage if I werent telling the truth. I just checked some games and I believe its a consensus that claiming miller ASAP is the optimal play in my case. Scum now has to pick between NKilling me or having a semiconfirmed almost vanilla in town.
And here is the Flavour.

Paraphrasing and using the first person.

I am a miller. I managed to have a gun but sadly it's broken. There could be cops but they will see me as mafia. And if I were to die, people will look at my things and due to my useless gun I will be remembered as mafia.

I wanted to mess with scum's mind before the day is over but I think its better to give you all the package. I am a death miller. That means Ill flip scum if killed.
So thats why I hate Forb, because she gave me this WTF role. I must say, though, that Im playing it as the general consensus establish.

[farside22]

The Twenty third "Only Took Four Pages" Vote Count

"In the blur between metal and flesh, Memnarch found madness."

Mod Note: Hmm...if there were an 8 way tie with 0 votes each, would I just make it no lynch or lynch the worst haiku writer?

farside22 (0)
Crazy (0)
StrangerCoug (0)
Juls (0)
Korlash (0)
Mirth (0)
Corvuus (0)
Populartajo (0)


Not Voting (8): farside22, Crazy, StrangerCoug. Juls, Korlash, Mirth, Corvuus, Populartajo

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is in three weeks at 10 AM EST, Saturday, January 17th, 2009

It should be shadown girl instead of Juls.

Fixed. COPY AND PASTE FAIL FTW! Now I really feel like I can follow Tar's footsteps

[farside22]

wait if mirth is a weak doc doesn't that mean she still saves people but dies if she targets a mafia member?
I know a quack doc usually kills someone unless the person is mafia. I think?

[farside22]

Wait, wait, wait. When did Mirth become confirmed doctor?

When did Corv and Korlash become a confirmed cop? Seriously. I would typically as town say I'm just vanilla go ahead and lynch me if my lynch was just going to happen but this is lylo and I'm not letting anyone be clear without a good read on everyone no matter then claim.

[farside22]

I find it improbable. I think many people think the same. But again FL is crazy and anything is possible here.
Korlash, killing doc with two bulletproofs cops seems plausible to you?

They are not BP. They are one shots.


Now I'm confused didn't both Corv and Korlash claim one shot save only?

Well, since your flavor indicates that you are insane, then I dont see how you dont trust your results, just invert them. With Corv that means there are 2 cops with prob trustworthy results according to flavor. And where did you get the idea that Mirth could kill her targets?
Of all claims, I think Crazy is the second most potential to be fake after Mirth. If he is telling the truth, then I think he has the potential to clear someone?
My PM and I assume the rest of millers indicates the presence of cops. So there has to be minimum 2 cops so you are pretty much confirmed with Corv.
And 3 millers could lead to something like confirming each other, something I tried to do D1 but failed miserably.
I dont see how is that underpowered.
If you guys are going to belive Mirth, I could go with pressing farside, my second suspect

Can you tell me how you have Mirth first. Crazy second and then say you are pushing me as a second suspect based on nothing at all?

[farside22]

I love a BS case when I see it.
I never stated I was suspicious or pushed a case on Corp. I'm vanilla sue me.
I stated more on Mirth and her misinformation that you got credit (you is PT) today and some how you (PT) missed it the first time. Why I got ignroed for noticing something PT gets the credit for was aggreviating but what ever.
I stated my case on Mirth had potentional more on Electra and her interaction then anthing else I noted if you read my comments. Electra turned out town which makes the Mirth notes null as far as their interaction.
Anything else I missed in your BS case tajo?

[farside22]

Ah!! Everything I wrote today disappeared. Not fair.

[farside22]

What you initially gave for your vote reasons were too vague to my liking, but since you've clarified and I understand the case I'll

un-FoS: populartajo

.

What about my counter comments on his so called case? What part of PT do you think is a solid case?

[farside22]

Ok we know corporate was a bad attitude player. Bad attitude doesnt mean scum. Mirth apparently doesnt know that or is scum pushing a easy target. But lest look at farside.

This isn't really a replay is it? I mean Mirth has a valid point and you just say that scum believe your post were without meaning?
First did you or did you not come in and just post saying it was between Sly or tajo?
Second did you or did you not post stating your thoughts on each player as mostly one liners with no real effort?
Third how hard is it to put more into a post on each player and your views on who is scum and why?
Typically scum have a harder time doing the 3rd part which is why Mirth is driving the point more.

Not directly, but subtly supporting Mirth case attacking corpo. Or am I reading it wrong?
Lets look at first point. What do you think was wrong in that Sly-tajo dichotomy?
Second, not posting with real effort and one liners dont mean scum. Or do you agree with Mirth here?
Third, again read second.
Ok you say you are commenting about his playstyle but why did you post that "usually scum have a harder time doing the 3rd part"? This is a perfect example of a subtly attack. Of course you are not that obvious, farside. Thats why you are an awesome player.
So thats what basically cemented her as second scummiest in the block.

I will say this corporate is unconventional.

Scummy no

, sarcastic absolutely.

I don't really get a scum vibe reading corp

but I would like to see him give more information.

So if you agree with me, then do you think Mirth attacks are valid or not?

I just don't like corpo's attitude.

I believe corpo is town based on Mana and not him

just so you know. Attitude does say alot about a person.

Mmm, contradiction much?

But, thats not all.
I reread her and there are some interesting things I found.

SC: Saying I have protown vibes for players is sucking up to a player and I see scum suck up to players they know are town to look town.

vote: SC

That was farside attacking Coug for buddying up to Llama. Wait a sec, how does farside know that Coug is buddying up to a town player?

Let's add OMGUS vote on top of butt kissing. I explained myself how the heck is that strawman? A little bit of a panic for one vote?
I am telling you I see scum suck up to townies.

Again?

second, farside, why criticize llama's attack of juls but not mine.

I started my read with my last post I saw llama attacks from my last post and the comments he made. I don't recall what you said to Juls but I will go back and look.

Mmmm, why is farside ignoring Mirth?
For the record, I dont like all that chat Mirth and farside had in those pages. I have the feeling that both are being very careful about suspecting each other.

I don't see it that way. Llama however mentions a difference between one post that Juls made and another and I can see where she thought both might be the same thing. Its something many a newb are confused about. That seems more of a trap move then your comment.

Why all the defense of Llama?

SC is guilty for sucking up to Llama but Mirth isnt. She only gets a question. There are no vote:Mirth not even a FOS even though Mirth was still not getting the point. In the other hand, Mirth was questioning farside but she also never voted/fosed her. Once again, Mirth was being deliberately weak with farside.

I suggest mish mash games if you want friends. Not mafia games.
FOS: tajo

I'm not will to lynch you at this time, but I don't care for people using that method it is scummy to try and say, but ah we are friends why the hate.

But I get a FOS for being friendly. Rly?

After she joins me in my Sly case. Fair enough. Then comes Corpo and what I analysed earlier about his strange stance and indecision towards him.

Discuss.

Corp's attitude was terrible and I don't like people who do things half ass. That was what I agreed with Mirth on. Would I ever get away with posting as Corp did? Would anyone? No. His attitude and vote and reasoning on Mirth came off as OMGUS later but reading him and Mana together I believed Mana even though parts of what he did came off scummy after a bit.
I was judging the Llama/ SC situation as SC trying to earn brownie points off of someone he knew was scum.
Once again I saw a difference (which someone did agree with me thank you very much) in regards to Llama's attacks and mirth's attacks on Juls. There is a difference between defending a player and kissing a players butt in my book. I question Mirth on it as I wondered if there was a connection between the two as scum can and will defend each other sometimes.
As for the last quote I don't remember the circumstance on my FOS on you but I believe it was more then just that comment.

[farside22]

Farside's defense dissapoints me. Im going to make this easy for you, farside.
This feels like a contradicition to you?

I will say this corporate is unconventional.

Scummy no

, sarcastic absolutely.

I don't really get a scum vibe reading corp

but I would like to see him give more information.

I just don't like corpo's attitude.

I believe corpo is town based on Mana and not him

just so you know. Attitude does say alot about a person.

How did you know Llama was town?
What happened to your suspicions of Mirth?

I'm going to get post number for your happy ass since you ignored all my points completely. I will do this tomorrow as today I am just too tired to go looking things up.

[farside22]

Mmmmm. Do you think its valid?

Yes.

What you initially gave for your vote reasons were too vague to my liking, but since you've clarified and I understand the case I'll

un-FoS: populartajo

.

What about my counter comments on his so called case?

I'll start by saying there's a difference between invalidity and nonexistence.

What part of PT do you think is a solid case?

As of when you asked, your defending Mirth. In fact, after you asked, populartajo presented more of his case against you, and his accusing you of a double standard (specifically, FoS'ing me but not Mirth for sucking up to LlamaFluff) reads to me as you being a favoritist towards her.

That's just because I like Mirth.
Seriously though when you did it, it was early in the game and seemed like trying to get on someone's good side where as Mirth thought accused me of taking sides between Llama and her.

[farside22]

The first one to tell me who is lying between these posters gets a cookie.
a) Farside. b) Mirth c)StrangerCoug.
Game is on!

SC has a nice contradiction between one post and another. Lets see if anyone notices

vote: strangercoug

Nice contradiction I see before me. How wonderful you made a comment about PT before the actual case he mentions later you say is solid.

[farside22]

Stef simply wasn't around. Corpo was, posting actively, but posting nonsense.
As to Farside, I don't see much of a contradiction there. To me it just looks like she was fed up with Corpo. I don't see how saying she didn't think he was scum but his play still sucked is a contradiction to you, since part of your case on me is based on that very premise.

SC stated an FOS saying he did not like PT's case. Then FOS'es and said the case was more solid. When asked what was more solid he quotes something PT said after the fact of the solid comment. I mean seriously PT did not state a case on me I called it BS and made my points on each comment. Then he has more to add and SC is like yeah that part where farside was votes me but doesn't even FOS Mirth. PT pointed that out after SC said PT had a solid case. That is a big contradiction.

[farside22]

Has everybody missed the part where Coug is blatantly lying?

I did but people like to ignore me.

[farside22]

I didn't ignore you I just feel like you need to make it more clear... As it stands I think I have a counter point to it, however if I am misunderstanding you then my point may be invalid and I've already said enough stupid things in my life.

I will give post numbers and such on what I"m saying Monday.

[farside22]

Okay I will take some time today and analysis each player. Sorry I didn't do this earlier some other things got interesting. Umm I mean intense. No, no I mean damn it I just got side tracked. That works.

[farside22]

Not necessarily. I don't have anything particularly damning against Mirth.

So she is scum with who?. Any guesses?

Missed this, but same beliefs (and stance) as Mirth in #1329.

Korlash, you are 100% sure Crazy is scum?
If yes, then we can lynch him.
If no, then we HAVE TO Vote No lynch.

This is a false dillema. If we lynch somebody other than Crazy—that includes you—and he or she turns out to be scum, the game continues.

So we have another farside supporter. Mmm.
You are not seeing my point, Coug. Are we 100% sure someone is scum today? Will we be tomorrow? I think the probs tomorrow are higher.

Yay wasn't is SC that gave you kutos for something that I pointed out for Mirth? Just checking.

[farside22]

Okay.
Coug and farside, do you have an item in your vanilla roles?

No.

[farside22]

I have to agree with Korlash here on Crazy. His mild miller claim to saying he is a thief just does not add up. I think he is lying his butt off about the role he actually has.

unvote:
vote: Crazy

[farside22]

Farside, why do you think so only now?

I forgot about crazy's soft claim and haven't had a chance to reread yet. I have gotten very busy lately.
When Kor brought up the case on crazy I recalled Crazy's soft claim in reaction to PT's claim. Now Crazy is claiming theif which has nothing in my book to do with the miller claim in any way. What does theif have to do with miller?

[farside22]

Well, farside's 1397 is. Farside you may as well answer the questions I posed to you.

I'm sorry I'm really am busy can you give me the post number to your questions.

[farside22]

@tajo: I have this:

2 claims means someone is likely lying.

3 (or 4, *cough*) claims means mod's a bastard.

And this:

Whoops, didn't catch up like I thought I would... here are my notes from the first 10 pages. I thought I'd better post them

just to prove that I do have

something

. I don't really have much to do tomorrow, so I should be able to catch up

with the rest then.

Warning: The following post likely contains a lot of what you might consider "WIFOM." What I say: Nothing is

WIFOM unless if you're talking about night actions or something similar.

#1 - Miller debate

-

Tajo is very likely to be town.

I'm not a miller, but I'll just say that the flavor that Tajo mentioned is

really

close to my role PM. (It's best I don't claim now, trust me)
*

One looked like an attempt to soft claim. The second time he says he isnt' a miller but has is really close to your role PM. As I stated what does miller have to do with a theif?

[farside22]

Farside, this discussion of Crazy's crap claim has been going on for pages. Why vote now?
.

Busy trying to catch up.

[farside22]

The problem is tajo that we don't know if the scum have a RB. Asking for a no lynch isn't helpful because what if the scum have a RB. Does one investigation mean less/ more? I mean seriously are you looking at Crazy and not thinking he is full of BS from one soft claim day 1 comment to today?

[farside22]

Well, farside's 1397 is. Farside you may as well answer the questions I posed to you.

I'm sorry I'm really am busy can you give me the post number to your questions.

1)This feels like a contradicition to you?

I will say this corporate is unconventional. Scummy no, sarcastic absolutely.

I don't really get a scum vibe reading corp but I would like to see him give more information.

I just don't like corpo's attitude. I believe corpo is town based on Mana and not him just so you know. Attitude does say alot about a person.

2)How did you know Llama was town?
3)What happened to your suspicions of Mirth?

1. No because if you take it out of context as you did I'm sure it might. But as I stated before. Each post shows me saying scum no. But I didn't like corp's attitude and stated as much. It is anti town behavior and not to helpful. Most of what I thought as far as corp was Mana seemed town. I believed her claim and her more. Even with corps anti town behavoir.
Scum does not always equal anti town I have learned.
2) I didn't know Llama was town. I stated for the 3rd time that SC's actions to me seemed like scum kissing a townies butt. I catch newbies doing it thought SC might be trying the same tactic. I usually have an idea whether someone seems town more then scum, but I'm told I am narrow minded.
3) I stated already my suspicion on Mirth was the action between her and Electra. Electra flipped town so that killed a bunch of what I had stated earlier.

[farside22]

The problem is tajo that we don't know if the scum have a RB. Asking for a no lynch isn't helpful because what if the scum have a RB. Does one investigation mean less/ more? I mean seriously are you looking at Crazy and not thinking he is full of BS from one soft claim day 1 comment to today?

We have 2 investigations, farside. I doubt scum has two roleblockers.
I am looking at Crazy. All indicates that he has more probs of turning scum than the majority of us. But, again I repeat...
This is not a discusion of Crazy scum Crazy town. This is a discussion of MAXIMIZING the odds of winning this.

Pd. Lol at Crazytown.

How do we know the scum have a RB or did I miss something?

[farside22]

Can anyone explain to me why they think Crazy isn't lying scum fake claiming at this point?

[farside22]

^ He could be scum not fake claiming. ... That's all I got.

SG did you miss the soft claims from day 1 to his claim as theif today? I mean really what does theif have to do with miller?

[farside22]

Responding to prod. Need to read what I missed. Hopefully will have time today to look into things.

[farside22]

I really don't think Crazy can change my mind. The unfortunate thing is SG gave Crazy and out that I would rather have had Crazy answer.
I understand what tajo is getting at with a lylo and no lynch but I seriously think Crazy lied. I don't see anything concrete that can make what he said any better.

[farside22]

Tajo: Do you think Crazy is scum? Why?

[farside22]

@SG this comment you made.

Well, he did say if he dies that he shows up as whatever role he stole from. And my theory is that he's some sort of counterbalance for the scum. An anti-miller, if you will. Because really, if he's town he can screw things up a lot more then he would help. Optimally, really, he's only really good if he claims on day one or two and we actually lynch him - so we figure out that person's role... which still really benifits scum. Find a PR, kill it. Find a townie, kill said confirmed townie. Good for scum, bad for town. And he's an RB? Doesn't sound good for town at all.

[farside22]

How is that giving him an out? I'm saying that he's likely scum due to his role.

Never mind for some reason I read that completely wrong.

[farside22]

So, Farside, what did you read it as?

Crazy, you are aware there was a deadline, and that you werent participating, why didn't you vote extension? Or offer up any real thoughts?

I missed the line where she put anti-town comment.
I saw it as he does take over a role which explains the comment he made to tajo so in a way it is true.

[farside22]

Mod: Side note I am going to be busy. I will do my best to post but things just went from bad to worse.

[farside22]

Crazy scum suspects looks to be process of elimination. I don't know why he is bypassing claims and calling Mirth crap claim in loo of his own role. Me thinks he protest too much is a fallacy. No one scum or town will act ration come lynch time.
I'm not sure if it was said at all by anyone. (sorry I really don't have time to reread this week) but with the comment about the one shot kill and the flavor of the kills I think a doc makes sense.
No I don't want to state bluntly what I'm thinking thank you very much.
I wonder if the kills are mod flavor is all I will say on this right now. If anyone knows that would help me out a lot thanks.

[farside22]

mod has told us not to consider the flavor as information and such, and so I think it is better to just read it as a normal NK for now.

no information to suggest anything otherwise.

Okay thank you.

I think PT then may have a point in regards to Mirth. I had thought the flavor meant something but if it doesn't then a doc does seem a bit unbalanced in my book.

[farside22]

farside:

I know you said you don't have much time but just to clarify.

You don't believe Crazy or Mirth's role claim? i.e. town only has 2 cops, then miller/death miller?

I don't recall you saying who you thought might be scum group, but based on what you said/voting, you think Crazy-Mirth-SC as most likely?

There has been 1 kill every night so far, so 'normal' assumption would be that any doc protection, rb, nk resistance, etc. has failed/wasn't targeted, so what do you mean (or perhaps I should re-read Tajo's point to see what he meant) about mirth's claim?

Cor

Well I think crazy - mirth. I'm not sure if SC as he was cleared. I think tajo as he seems hyper about a no lynch and protecting crazy.

I really was thinking the flavor of the kills would explain a doc presence with as BP can't be protected if the scum kill without a bullet if you know what I mean.

[farside22]

Why me and Crazy together?

Process of elimination.

Korlash - cop
Corv - cop
SG - miller
SC - checked out (question of cop's sanity only)
me - I know I'm town
tajo - claimed death miller but as I said I don't like how he is pushing the no lynch idea any more
you - claimed doc. However if 2 cops are bp and the flavors mean nothing then the balance does look off. I had thought maybe the flavor of the kills meant something so a doc seems plausible but if not then I feel doc in the set up is not balanced.

[farside22]

tajo - claimed death miller but as I said I don't like how he is pushing the no lynch idea any more

What are you talking about? When did I stop pushing it? Its just that nobody listens to me. And why Coug is checked out but Mirth not?

I did say Coug is cleared pending sanity. Should have said the same about Mirth. Someone asked me who I thought. I stated who I thought.
I'm saying you are pushing the no lynch so badly. I don't get the why. Do you think it will really help?
I mean to say if Corv clears SC. Korlash clears Mirth and Corv (?) then who does that leave? You, me and crazy. So I know I'm not scum however I believe Corv as not guilty is something plausible, while Korlash guilty could be he just see's everyone as guilty. I really don't know.

[farside22]

tajo - claimed death miller but as I said I don't like how he is pushing the no lynch idea any more

What are you talking about? When did I stop pushing it? Its just that nobody listens to me. And why Coug is checked out but Mirth not?

I did say Coug is cleared pending sanity. Should have said the same about Mirth. Someone asked me who I thought. I stated who I thought.
I'm saying you are pushing the no lynch so badly. I don't get the why. Do you think it will really help?
I mean to say if Corv clears SC. Korlash clears Mirth and Corv (?) then who does that leave? You, me and crazy. So I know I'm not scum however I believe Corv as not guilty is something plausible, while Korlash guilty could be he just see's everyone as guilty. I really don't know.

Arg, I get a really bad feeling about this post.
Farside who do you suspect and why?
Could you explain your reasons for rejecting no lynch?

Crazy. I don't believe the claim. Plain and simple.
I believe you are his scum buddy trying to push a no lych.
Either Mirth or SC. Not sure which.

Korlash - cop
Corv - cop
SG - miller
me - I know to be town
The unknown's

crazy
tajo
mirth / SC

Is there a reason not to lynch either you or Crazy in my opinion? No. I look at is as a 1 and 4 shoot at being wrong. Crazy's claim and you pushing the no lynch just feels like two scums trying to cause a mislynch with the hopes of surviving another day.

[farside22]

Is there a reason not to lynch either you or Crazy in my opinion? No. I look at is as a 1 and 4 shoot at being wrong. Crazy's claim and you pushing the no lynch just feels like two scums trying to cause a mislynch with the hopes of surviving another day.

What mislynch are you talking about? Please read this post and answer the question posed at the end.

a)We lynch Crazy.
1) Crazy is scum. We dont lose.
2) Crazy is town. We lose.


b) We go no lynch. We dont lose unless something really shitty happens at night.
1) We get more information. (most likely)
2) We get zero new information. (least likely) We go back to scenario a).

Explain to me what can go wrong in scenario b) and how it can be potentially different in a disastrous way for town than today.

You don't know that scum could have a RB. You don't know if there is a SK that is hiding and pretending to be something they are not.
Now if you know any of these things to be fact then I would lynch you.
There are probablities is not known in this game.
Also if 3 people are cleared for the most part then why are you pushing a no lynch. Do you really believe Crazy is town?
Do you really think everything he has done/ said or hinted out isn't horrible in lou of his claim?
Do you think in the back of your mind (like I had recently) that there might be a SK and that could explain 2 cops who have one NK immune ability and we don't know that there is a SK because of the protection in this game?

[farside22]

Scum could have a RB. 2 RBs is unlikely. We have 2 cops.
Also, SK? If you dont buy my "no killing methods, therefore only 1NK" theory then think for a second. With 3 millers, 1 DM, 2 cops, 1 doc, do you really think there is a SK? How many vanillas do we have left? How crazy would this game be with 2 NKs?
As for my opinion of Crazy please check post 1487.
So, please tell me how things can dramatically change against town when we have the small but

possible

chance of having more information tomorrow?

So let me get this straight. You want to save crazy with the possiblity he is a scum rb so he can rb someone and that helps who exactly?
Tell me how 2 people who have 1 shot nk ability and a doc make sense with 1 kill.
Check please.

[farside22]

Well if you're scum, Corv would pretty much have to be scum.

Anyway, would anyone have any objections to me voting now or would y'all like me to hold off til deadline?

I think tajo would object. i don't

[farside22]

Can I point out the one flaw that PT is missing with a no lynch. If crazy is scum rb that is a thief then who is to say he can't steal the cop's armor for the night so the mafia can kill the cop. This more then anything leads me to believe no lynch is bad.

[farside22]

tajo missed Crazy's claim or he is trying to dispute the claim.
Pft. Korlash or Corv I would like to know what you did and what you found out.

[farside22]

tajo you aren't making sense. If there were 3 scums then which cop is lying. Unless you are scum in that prob 3 scum left comment.
Slip?
I know I'm town. If Crazy told any truth he had my role then. Which I don't know. I mean there is 6 players left right. You think SC is scum now do you?

[farside22]

Not sure what you expect me to say. I'm kind of shocked at the guilty on me and have not clue. Just know lynching me will lose the town the game.

[farside22]

Corv: I think tajo is scum for sure. I would bet 100% on this if I was betting because of his almost rabbid attempt to have a no lynch on Crazy. I do believe Crazy took my role as it is the only thing I can think of. Maybe with his death I'm stuck now with a death miller and my lynch will only result in chaos. I really don't know as I'm just confused by the guilty.
Back to my case on tajo.
Tajo tried to have a no lynch. If it had occured we don't know if crazy was a thief who could have helped the scum by taking away from the cops their pick or vest in this case. Now I feel like tajo is going to get away with the whole WIFOM because crazy flipped town.

[farside22]

Farside: I don't quite understand why you say you are now stuck with a death miller role. So you are saying that if you are lynched you will now flip scum? Wouldn't it be that Crazy somehow instead of 'stole', 'gave' you an item to make you like a miller on investigation? Clarification?

Other than that, you have Tajo as today's lynch, and then tomorrow we could investigate check Mirth/SC and decide from there would be the general plan?

First I said maybe. I don't know. I'm going with the thought that Crazy was telling the truth since you received a guilty on me. I'm wondering if I no longer look town to cops at this point.
I would say that if you investigate tonight that kor investigates me and that you investigate Mirth.
I say this for 2 reason's
1. It confirms for me if Kor see's me as innocent that I'm stuck with a crappy exchange for the remainered of this game based on Crazy taking my role.
2. It confirms Kor's claim on Mirth. Does that make sense. I can't imagine 1 god father 1 scum and 1 role changer who comes up innocent depending on who he targets. That means the cops are useless too.

[farside22]

Corv, I'd prefer not to get into it, but if you see a snag, then it's probably the one I'm seeing as there's one really glaring one.

Farside, why me over SC's replacement?

corv already checked SC.

[farside22]

Oh yes, brain freeze there, I really need to start doing that sleeping thing again.

Hee and I'm the one behind in games. I had to cut games down. But I did remember that bit of info.
So in short.
Lets say we no lynch.

Kor investigates me
Corv invegtigates Mirth.
Depending on results we find out weather I (for my own sanity) am stuck with a non-information role and Crazy targeting me and dying now means I'm going to show up scum no matter what.
Corv investigates Mirth confirms Kor's results.
That leaves the following in my view

If Corv receives innocent on Mirth. Then either Mirth or SC is scum GF
As both will be receiving an innocent.
If Mirth receives guilty then I will believe that Kor received lied and is lying about his role and is alligned with Mirth. I say this because Corv claimed before Kor and Kor can say whatever he wants investigation wise.
This means I believe Corv over Korlash with results.

[farside22]

Alright I will ask the 2 cops. If you truely believe I'm scum who do you think my scum partner is? Do either of you believe that 3 scums are still in the game at this point?

[farside22]

Alright I will ask the 2 cops. If you truely believe I'm scum who do you think my scum partner is? Do either of you believe that 3 scums are still in the game at this point?

Slip.

Reading is tech:

They believe I"m scum based on a guilty. I know I"m not. Do I really have to say every post. Look I'm town, I'm town I'm town.
Serioulsy. It's a valid question as I could talk (write) til the cows come home and I know I've not been paying attention (which if most people see I have asked out of a bunch of games at this point so that point is mute at this time). But I know I'm town. I want to know their thoughts as for me I believe I expressed a tajo scum with either SC or Mirth as a possible GF.

[farside22]

Still slip. You just admitted Crazy was your scumpartner.

Umm I have no scum partner and no where in those question do I say Crazy is my scum partner. I asked if they thought there was 3 scums left. I asked who was my scum parnter if they believe I'm scum.
Reaching much?

[farside22]

Alright I will ask the 2 cops. If you truely believe I'm scum who do you think

my scum partner is

? Do either of you believe that 3 scums are still in the game at this point?

Read carefully the bolded part.
You are assuming too much for my taste like you

really

know that Crazy was indeed scum, the 2 cops are telling the truth and that there is only 2 scum left.
.............
Now, answer me these questions plz.
Why do you think I am scum? Do you think Crazy is scum? Does the theory of Crazy mirroring my role makes sense to you? You said I was scum for pushing no lynch, however you thought it was a good idea at some point yesterday. Remember?
So, what happened to your support of my Coug case yesterday? Do you think Mirth is lying? Or this is a game where everybody should be lynched but you?

Now I know you are reaching too hard. You are taking 3 words out of a sentence that is so beneath you. I really expected better.

vote: populartajo

[farside22]

Perfect.
Now, answer me these questions plz.
Why do you think I am scum? Do you think Crazy is scum? Does the theory of Crazy mirroring my role makes sense to you? You said I was scum for pushing no lynch, however you thought it was a good idea at some point yesterday. Remember?
So, what happened to your support of my Coug case yesterday? Do you think Mirth is lying? Or this is a game where everybody should be lynched but you?

Because you pushed for a no lynch on a player that was caught in a lie. If you believe Crazy then that means I'm telling you the truth as I'm innocent. However I believe he was a scum theif as a someone pushing for a no lynch on a scum theif makes sense. Then Crazy as scum can steel the cops vest and scum can kill the cop. This is why I thought you tried to push a no lynch to give your scum parnter a chance to do that.
Crazy flipped town and since I was told I was targeted and received a guilty I believe Crazy's theif claim and he died with my role.
PFft I'm not saying lynch the cops am I? No I'm saying you got a guity. I got a guity. I know my role as town and believe I may no have been switched with a theif. You claim and push for a no lynch instead of a lynch based on a person who lied and others say him lie.
Now you want to go back and say oh well he could be a reverse of me is just another attempt to reach to cause a mislynch.
Since you have been after Mirth all game. I can either assume trying to lynch a townie at this point. I know scum buss but like that. No the way you have gone after Mirth I think you tried and then left the SC train as an attempt to buss your scum parnter but let it go when needed.

[farside22]

Wow how many times did I say no to the no lynch and lets lynch the lying crazy.
I state this:

I understand what tajo is getting at with a lylo and no lynch but I seriously think Crazy lied

And you take that to mean I was good with a lylo where reading the whole sentence. You know the complete sentence I wasn't for lylo at all.

See you keep dodging whether you think Crazy is scum then when Kor brings up the possible idea of a reverse death miller you are all over it.
Now you are pushing my lynch. So yes I believe Crazy was scum based on the fact that I now have come up guilty. You are pushing my lynch but not a no lynch as you want scum to win and know that lynching me will win the scum the game.
That's my POV.

[farside22]

See you keep dodging whether you think Crazy is scum then when Kor brings up the possible idea of a reverse death miller you are all over it.

It makes more sense than he being a thief. Or do you think is the opposite?

Do you think Crazy is a thief or a scum miller? You say he lied but you believe his claim. The theory of he being a thief that stole vests doesnt make sense. It would make sense if everyone had items but not everyone have them. What did he "steal" from you: your Vanilla ice posters? And even worse, in that robbery he left his scum ID in your house giving the town another miller in the exchange?

Frankly, that is such an hyper over powered role for scum, that its really really hard to believe it. Do you?

2 cops and a doc. Your talking one role then can flip so that both comes that are 1 shot NK immune makes sense to me.
I said yesterday I believed he was lying but that was because of his claim and what he said one day versus another.
Do you really think or know something the rest of us don't, please share so we can lynch you now.

[farside22]

It could be miller. I just assumed that crazy was scum at this point. As he fliped town and I have a guilty verdict over my head.

[farside22]

Not sure what your missing with post 1686. As for 1684.
Looking at a set up where you have 2 cops that are NK (1 shot immune) 2 millers and a thief who can switch roles.
Think of it.
How does a cop with 1 shot immunity make sense?
Well if the cops investigations mean nothing.
If you believe for a moment that Crazy was telling the truth and he took people's roles. So if he takes Electra's role and the cops checked out Electra would they have received a guilty or innocent? If Crazy is scum who can swap roles then in my mind 2 cops and 1 doc make sense as the cops investiagions can be dirtied from Crazy. I can't image without a SK in this game how cops with 1 shot NK and a doc can make sense otherwise.

[farside22]

Farside, I want to know why you think your role was switched exactly?

Because Corv is claiming that he received a guilty on me. It is the only theory I can think of as to why he would receive a guilty on me as I know I'm a vanilla townie.

[farside22]

With what I'm reading forgive me a little leverage for the moment.

unvote:
vote: mirth

[farside22]

I keep saying over and over the following.
Corv says he received a guilty on my. My assumption is that Crazy has marked me as something either miller or whatever role he had for I know I am town and that is the only thing I can think of.
Corv doesn't believe. Can't say I don't blame him. I'm just doing the best I can with trying to find who is scum with whom at this point.

[farside22]

That still doesn't answer either of my questions. Why are you voting me? and why do you think its *permanent*.

I'm not answering the why I'm voting for you question.
I'm not sure why you don't find my answer sufficent but I will expand a bit.
Crazy is dead. Lynch yesterday. Last night Corv targeted me and says this morning he found me guilty. Now in my mind if he targets me at night and Crazy is dead what is to say that I'm town? Did I change permanently when Crazy died? Do I no longer have a town role? The mod never sent me a PM so I know I don't have Crazy's claimed role. But what about the idea of someone who can change your allignment upon death?
So that is what is in my mind.

[farside22]

Perhaps you don't understand my question. What makes you think Crazy's alignment will stick to you.

And why arent you answering why youre voting for me?

I am just going off of the cops results. I have no clue if it is permanent or not. That was why I suggest Kor checking me tonight

[farside22]

Well I wanted to get tajo's reaction to the vote as I do feel he is scum. If he voted for Mirth then I would start thinking it early scum bussing or mirth is indeed town. However with tajo disappeared or not coming in to say boo. I think his accusation towards Mirth and the fact he didn't vote for her today says scum buddies. I would vote either Mirth or Tajo and believe them to be scum together at this point.

[farside22]

Well I wanted to get tajo's reaction to the vote as I do feel he is scum. If he voted for Mirth then I would start thinking it early scum bussing or mirth is indeed town. However with tajo disappeared or not coming in to say boo. I think his accusation towards Mirth and the fact he didn't vote for her today says scum buddies. I would vote either Mirth or Tajo and believe them to be scum together at this point.

This doesnt make sense at all. Id vote a guilty result 100 times over a player that I dont like but still has the prob of being a "rusty doc".
And sorry if there are scum bussing right now its probably you two. Ive been behind your scummy derrieres since D2 and please, anyone with time can reread both of you and realize how scummy your relationship is.
.............
Mirth what do you want me to answer? Isnt it obvious that if I am having a hard time believing your role claim and Im questioning it because Im trying to understand it/trying to give it a sense?

Yet you have been pushing for Mirths lynch since Day1? Why again?
I find it more likely at this point that you are trying to distance yourself from your partner.
Mirth my reason's are based on tajo's comments to you through out the game. He has been after you since day 1 which in my opinion looks like scum bussing. Then to not push for the vote and concede seems like scum realieved not to vote out their scum parnter.

[farside22]

So I'm like this close to just voting Farside and crossing my fingers...

Which finger are you holding up? Is that a middle finger at me?


Okay sorry I had my silly moment. I'm feeling good now that things are back to normal. Well what I consider normal for RL.

Seriously though do you find my thought process on tajo's comment to Mirth and his lack of vote faulty?

[farside22]

I would never hold up a middle finger in any place you could actually see it...
.

Who's mind just went in the gutter!!!


Well I can't do anything about a guilty verdict. I don't see why it happened. I believe tajo is scum based on the comments and poor attempt to save Crazy. And yes I do believe crazy was scum theif.

[farside22]

I believe Pop is scum too. I also have doubts about Corv and Mirth. But sadly those doubts aren't enough to make me disbelieve Corv and so his guilty verdict is the best lead I have.

I do feel a lot better voting you becuase you keep calling Crazy a "scum theif" and then try to push he stole your role and gave you his. A theif doesn't do that, a switcher does... I just think if you were town you would be calling Crazy something that makes what happened to you make sense and not calling Crazy what he claimed to be. It just gives me the impression you are trying to make your claim match his, and if you honestly think he was scum why would you be trying to match up to a claim that has a better then average chance of being a lie?

And if you think that is a crappy reason, well... guitly verdict... all I need to say...

Hmm runs to write down bastard mod game with a scum role switcher.

As for the rest I'm just guessing. Never thought of a role switcher. Never even seen a role switcher before just a framer. But keep the idea's coming gives me ideas for my next modded game.

[farside22]

Can I ask if everyone feels I'm guilty why I'm not lynched? Does anyone here believe me when I say I'm town at this point? I've tried to say who I think it scum and why and yes mirth to me with tajo attacking you it says scum bussing to me.
If my lynch is inevitable and think that no matter what I say won't change your mind I ask you vote now so I might go join Kmd's game.
Thank you.

[farside22]

what's the votecount at anyways?

1 vote: tajo (farside)
2 votes farside (tajo, kk)

not voting

everyone else

[farside22]

As much as I appriecate the somewhat relief of Corv's vote and comment on someone besides myself I must ask what happed to waiting on Kor to comment?

[farside22]

There is a little problem with your theory, Corvus. Im not scum.
Listen, Corvus, Im tired of telling you that you have a good reasoning process but you always get to the wrong conclusions. Ive been telling you this all this game and you dont understand. When you are wrong, you have to accept it.
I fail to see how you can lynch someone that from your perspective could be a dead miller rather than someone that has a guilty investigation from you!
Basically you are giving Mirth and Coug a free pass for coming up town in investigations but somehow farside doesnt fit in your group of cop confirmed.
I just dont get it.

So lets follow the cop and hope the town is right is your theory or your plan?

[farside22]

There is a little problem with your theory, Corvus. Im not scum.
Listen, Corvus, Im tired of telling you that you have a good reasoning process but you always get to the wrong conclusions. Ive been telling you this all this game and you dont understand. When you are wrong, you have to accept it.
I fail to see how you can lynch someone that from your perspective could be a dead miller rather than someone that has a guilty investigation from you!
Basically you are giving Mirth and Coug a free pass for coming up town in investigations but somehow farside doesnt fit in your group of cop confirmed.
I just dont get it.

So lets follow the cop and hope the town is right is your theory or your plan?

I dont understand your question. Rephrase?

You think people should vote for me based on a guilty verdict. I want to know if that is the mafia's plan this whole time.

[farside22]

There is a little problem with your theory, Corvus. Im not scum.
Listen, Corvus, Im tired of telling you that you have a good reasoning process but you always get to the wrong conclusions. Ive been telling you this all this game and you dont understand. When you are wrong, you have to accept it.
I fail to see how you can lynch someone that from your perspective could be a dead miller rather than someone that has a guilty investigation from you!
Basically you are giving Mirth and Coug a free pass for coming up town in investigations but somehow farside doesnt fit in your group of cop confirmed.
I just dont get it.

Let me put it this way. If Crazy is what I believe in where he swapped or switched with me and I know I'm innocent and the mafia picked me because I have been not really posting as well as I have then lynching me helps the mafia win the game.
So lets follow the cop and hope the town is right is your theory or your plan?

I dont understand your question. Rephrase?

You think people should vote for me based on a guilty verdict. I want to know if that is the mafia's plan this whole time.

Why shouldnt we lynch you if you have a guilty result from a cop I trust and you've failed to explain why?

[farside22]

Sorry this was supposed to be the comment at the end of that quote:

Let me put it this way. If Crazy is what I believe in where he swapped or switched with me and I know I'm innocent and the mafia picked me because I have been not really posting as well as I have then lynching me helps the mafia win the game.

[farside22]

Mod: Please note I will be on vacation from Feb 13th to Feb 16

[farside22]

oh thank god.

unvote:
vote: farside

please try and kill the cop like a suggested either that or go for the doc. These people have no clue.
Good luck partner.

[farside22]

Yeah. And I was kinda hoping for my partners to outlive me. After the wagon on me (which I still say was unwarranted), I claimed doctor basically to get myself counterclaimed and get rid of the doctor if there was one in the game. I thought I was going down, so I thought I'd do that most damage while doing so. I didn't expect to outlive both of them.

I don't like doctors, and I don't like cops. No way in hell I'm having both, lol. One shot NK resistance makes things interesting. What's intriguing is I didn't have a vig .

I was pretty pissed about a one shot nk resistant cop with no second kill going on. Once the millers claimed and the cops stated they were one shot NK resistant I knew the scum was losing this one.
But nice effort by Mirth. I want to nominate you for best effort in a losing cause for this game.

[farside22]

Here is the scum talks.

http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/MuFB7DjnfA3