Mini 1088: Cookie Thief Mafia (Game Over)

[Kublai Khan]

So hey.

Who took the cookie from the cookie jar?

Idk but I heard someone saw a tiger

It was a gorilla, IIRC.

...

...

I'm old...
VOTE: RobCapone

[Kublai Khan]

Kublai khan makes me think of cobra Kai

Sweep the leg Johnny

be prepared for anything, yo.

BTW, learn some history.

[Kublai Khan]

vote Elleran

sarcasm
noun
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.

I don't think sarcasm is the word you are looking for. Why did you vote him?

2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark:

a review full of sarcasms

.

It was obviously a flippantly sarcastic taunt. It was in quotes. Why did you consider it worthy of a vote?
--
@Elleran: unvoting, then revoting the same person isn't an overreaction in itself?
--

The two of them may have planned having a silly argument and claiming getoutofrvs towncred during scum pregame talk.

On a scale of 1-10 (10 being really strongly): how strongly do you believe this actually happened?

[Kublai Khan]

Ok, round of questions then...

@Elleran: Re: post 22 -- Why did you sarcastically accuse drmyshottyizsik of starting a wagon? He was the first and only to vote for andrew94 so far. Plus Darox had 2 votes at the time...

@drmyshottyizsik: Re: 23 & 25 -- Do you honestly believe that Elleran was trying to misrepresenting you as someone who was trying to start a wagon on andrew94?

@lewarcher82: Re 39 -- Why do you keep insisting that Elleran is a village idiot? Expand on that, because I think we must have widely different definitions of what a VI is.

@PoisonIvy: Re 47 --

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik for trying to start a "wagon".

- WRONG!!! Shotsick was ACTUALLY the first person voted under the exact same statement.

Maybe I'm dumb, but what does this mean?

We either have mafia or a serial VI who cant read to see that shotsick was voted first and voted him for trying to start a "wagon". Even under the use of sarcasm, a "wagon" is what i would use if someone was attempting to start a wagon, but no one was taking the bait.

Again, what do you mean by taking the bait? Also, explain what you define as a VI. (Let alone whatever a "serial VI" is.)

@andrew94: What do you think of Elleran's posts?

Uh, maybe 2?
I wouldn't have mentioned it if I found it inconceivable, but certainly less than 15% likely.
Early in the game, when there's practically nothing to go off of, cases are necessarily reachy.
Then as more content appears I am able to get better developed reads.
Overstating early cases tends to make them more effective at getting us to somewhere useful.

Ok cool. My mind utterly rejected it as wild speculation and if you'd gone above a 3 I'd really worry about you.

Though I'm annoyed that you've planted a bad(?) seed in my brain.

It's done by sniping the first post of the new page and doing a regular vote count. Nothing fancy to it.

Have you made a serious game-related comment yet?

Also, why no vote (not even a random one)?

[Kublai Khan]

@Elleran: Re: post 22 -- Why did you sarcastically accuse drmyshottyizsik of starting a wagon? He was the first and only to vote for andrew94 so far. Plus Darox had 2 votes at the time...

Why? For two reasons.

First reason: As an random vote.
Second reason: To get any reaction from the random player that I have chosen to randomly vote by providing an intentionally random reason.

So let me get your story straight. You random voted drmyshottyizsik and gave a joking reason that made no sense in order to provoke a reaction. drmyshottyizsik reacted. You declared it an overreaction and serious voted. You vow to keep your vote on him until you see a reason to move it. drmyshottyizsik says that the argument moved the game out of rvs. You respond by saying you're convinced of his innocence, yet you didn't unvote him.

Does that about sum it up correctly?

Why do I have to put down a meaningless vote that I will remove as soon as I see something genuinely voteworthy?

Most games I've played end their RVS ice breaking stuff with someone making a more serious vote based on someone else's "random" vote. Plus no vote is ever truly 100% random. If you choose not to vote, then you are shielding information about yourself to the rest of the players.

I'm going to

unvote: Rob Capone

and

vote: Darox

for his cageyness.

[Kublai Khan]

I prefer doing something interesting like fakeclaiming PGO as doctor instead of random voting.
Sadly, I am not always a doctor.
Plus none of you have anything interesting about you to make you stand out.

Huh. If only you had a way to coax people into doing something interesting. Like some game mechanic that pushes them closer to being knocked out of the game.

Not very scummy, actually, so I am not committing myself this early in game. But I am pretty convinced that Elleran is a VI and not scum.

Alright. I get what you're saying. I disagree and think you're cutting him too much slack, but I understand your position better.

let me get this straight. you seem to be attacking elleran , yet you sheep the person before you and vote for darox

How the hell is a summary of Elleran's play an attack on him?

I guess I have used the label VI too soon in this game, or I was wrong assuming there was just one.

WTF? Darox isn't giving you any scummy vibes at all?

[Kublai Khan]

Starting to be too many Is for this V.

vote: robcapone

my role pm gives me the impression that either rob or poisonivy is mafia

So you're going ahead with a two person lynch plan because of an impression?

I've got a wild theory was to what your role is and why you have that impression. If it's what I think it is, then you made a bad play.

[Kublai Khan]

@kublai i said you seemed to be attacking elleran. your points are not in favour of elleran.

If my points are not in favor of Elleran, then that reflects on Elleran not me.

I am afraid I have the same theory Kublai has... seems sadly evident, actually.

Yeah. I'm going to keep mum on it until RobCapone and PoisonIvy have a chance to weigh in. The WIFOM is going to be brutal on this one.

unvote Darox for now given this new development.

[Kublai Khan]

Oops.

unvote Darox

On the other hand, 50% is a lot better than our normal 25% chance of hitting scum,
Particularly since a miss today would guarantee a hit tomorrow if what fur says is true.

That's the WIFOM of the neighbor role. It's possible to have an all-town neighbor group.

@PoisonIvy: What country are you from? And is english a second language for you?

darox is a jester, 5 bucks

FakeGod said there would be no VI roles. You owe me 5 bucks.

The Darox wagon was ridiculous, in my opinion. There was no reason for him to go to to L-2,

Would his being at L-3 be ok? His wagon was just to pressure him to post more game relevent stuff. It worked (sorta).

i disagree that it is stupid play. i feel like the mod has given me a 50/50 lynch from my perspective based upon my role pm.

You realize that it's entirely possible to have an all-town neighbor group, right?

I know my alignment, and by my behavior you all should have it indicated that I am pro-town at this point, even if my concept is above a lot of your heads and appears anti-town. If you knew my meta, you would realize I don't put in nearly this much effort when I am scum, and I am a blathering idiot. I don't know why this is, and even if you consider me an asshole as town, I am way worse as scum and this is not my scum meta.

*facepalm*

Because if you were scum, you'd totally be honest with us and play to your scum meta, right? Because you're so totally honest and are a really shitty mafia player.

i'm about to eat my cookie

What?

@Elleran: Almost convinced. Noted.

[Kublai Khan]

mod: I wait for you to rule. Did furco break any rule? I do not see anything in the ruleset about quoting neighbour-talk

Uh, Mod: Did you just edit something out of the game that some players saw and other players didn't? I feel like this puts me at a bit of a disadvantage. I'd rather you have just left it up and publicly admonished Furcolow (or modkilled/force-replaced him).

I have done what I believe is the best for the game. If you have further concerns, please let me know via PM. -mod

I'm starting to see how what I have tried to get going could be misinterpreted as something "scummy", but we could gain much-needed potential mislynches by quicklynching the other "girl's club" with me. I would be hit in the night by the last one, though, if we didn't hit scum today. You see, the girl's club gets a nametrack/roleblock we vote to get 1 person to use. It keeps people in a room, and we get their name (or at least one of us does). Possibly we all do, but from my reading it feels like we pick 1 person, and they get all the information. If we lynch scum in one of them, since I'd bet my fucking life poisonivy is the GodFather, it would keep them from getting this information in case all of us get the information from the one we pick (through the mod), and picking 1 is only just to see if they die (paranoid gun owner, anyone?).

Okay.. So to clarify... The Girl's Club group is a trio of players (furcolow, PoisonIvy, & RobCapone) who are investigation immune. Plus all three have to agree on a target that they then get to investigate (role name) and roleblock them? Plus you possibly jailkeep them as well?

Okay, I agree that there probably is at least one scum amongst you. Hell, all three of you may be scum with that kind of power.

Why do I need to comment on things in order to have thought them? Sometimes, it's better to watch without spouting your immediate conclusions.
A "long" post is nothing but filler. I am going to make my posts as long as I want, and I tend to be concise.

Because when you brilliantly figure out who is who on Day 3 and announce it, nobody is going to believe you because you were scummy for active lurking the whole game.

Duh.

[Kublai Khan]

@Darox: The "I'm going to sit back and observe other people's behavior and contribute nothing of my own" strategy nonsense is something that used to be drummed out of people in newbie games. Is this not the case anymore? At worst, you're coasting scum, and at best you're a townie that's distracting everyone. I'm leaning towards the latter, but it's such a fine fucking line right now.

Re: neighbors...

I'm divided. But I'm starting to agree with the theory that at least one of them has to be scum. The "they get to investigate, but scum also learns the result" mechanic makes sense from a balancing standpoint.

And who is this Zed person on the playerlist? Why don't they post more? Preferrably with some thought/analysis that wasn't cribbed off of other people's posts.

[Kublai Khan]

@drmyshottyizsik - why did you vote for Stigmata?
@PoisonIvy - Why is Stigmata's dropping out of the game diabolical?

Since I missed what was quoted from the QT and not sure what all I can say, furc was the one who suggested we should work together and ivy and I were talking before game started, furc happened to not want to share any information or really discuss options. he was just concered with making sure allignments were not known

@PoisonIvy - Is this accurate?

Hey look! Zed made her third post only 45 minutes after I made a "Where's Zed?" post. So busy yet so actively scanning the thread...

vote: Zed

[Kublai Khan]

@furcolow:

First of all, please quit making personal attacks

Second, since you're basing a lot of your case on stuff PoisonIvy said in the QT (i.e. "godfather", "won't stick neck out") before the game started, why did you first vote for RobCapone when you started playing in game?

[Kublai Khan]

@furcolow:

First of all, please quit making personal attacks

Second, since you're basing a lot of your case on stuff PoisonIvy said in the QT (i.e. "godfather", "won't stick neck out") before the game started, why did you first vote for RobCapone when you started playing in game?

read my posts, word for word, then tell me if you still need to ask that

Yes, I do. Your case on PoisonIvy is crap. And you switched your vote away from RobCapone (though you claimed to be more suspicious of him at the time you claimed) before RobCapone ever posted.

If we're lynching one of the neighbors today, I'd vote for Furcolow.

[Kublai Khan]

New plan:

Let's keep all three neighbors alive and instead direct their investigation target.

I think we're going about it all wrong. Given the most probable scenario of there being 1 scum amongst the trio, why are we risking lynching a townie-neighbor? If don't lynch any of them today, then the 2 townies in the group can out-vote/bully the third into going along with the target we agree to in-thread.


I can't think of an immediate downside to doing this..

Thoughts everyone?

[Kublai Khan]

So we'll just mark andrew94 down as being anti-investigation.

Anyone else?

[Kublai Khan]

1) There are two kind of cops. Role cops and alignment cops. Immunity to role cops and immunity to alignment cops are two different things.

Too narrow thinking. There's all sorts of informative-type roles and corresponding ways to mislead them.

All the neighbors get is the person's name and that person is essentially roleblocked

So.. Are the scum's role names really scummy sounding? Did you guys learn each other's role names?

-------------
Goddamn Furcolow. I'd swear that if you'd stop typing for a second, maybe your brain would start working and you'd be less stupid.

Let me be very clear: REPETITION DOES NOT CREATE TRUTH.

Let's break down your case against PoisonIvy:

1) PoisonIvy brought up the Godfather role both in the QT thread and in the game thread. (from 132)

The implication of this being that anyone who mentions that a godfather role might be present in the game, must be a godfather themselves. This is one of the most overblown scumtells in mafia. Since the group is investigation immune, it logically follows that the pro-town members of the group could be considered millers and the scum member is someone that doesn't investigate as scum. Using proper terminology to describe things (such as calling a investigation immune scum a godfather) is not a scumtell in my book.

2) PoisonIvy is aiming to lynch VIs even if they are town. (132)

That's an iffy brick in your wall of evidence, Furcolow. She did vote for Elleran because of her poor incomprehensible play at the tail end of the RVS. But her comment that you quote as evidence:

Andrew94. You look like you're fishing asking lewarcher specifically for his view on me from my "nulltelling situation". Without giving any stance on it yourself! What pray tell was my nulltelling situation. And what i deduced, was obvious, Elleran is a VI or scum. Either one im content with ridding. Or was that not clear?

Is in a post that inclues an unvote for Elleran. I'm sorry, but it really, really doesn't sound like she's serious about lynching VIs. I realize that she hasn't been backing down from this, so it's a minor point in your favor. But then again her vote is currently on you and you're a "genius".

3) PoisonIvy isn't reading (139)

Seriously? Everybody misses stuff from time to time. Next.

4) "blatant misrepresentation of time" (208)

PoisonIvy never mentioned or implied that you showed up before or after her and RobCapone chatted.

5) Appeal to Emotion (143)

Honestly you're just as guilty of this, Furcolow.

6) OMGUSing (209)

Honestly you're just as guilty of this, Furcolow. And her OMGUS is more justifiable since you've put forth a really shitty case.

So, pretty much everything since post 132 in this game has been nothing but confirmation bias. That's why I call your case against PoisonIvy to be crap.

Now you need to quit fucking declaring yourself town because of meta.

That means NOTHING to me.

The only reason to have a distinctly seperate town and scum meta is so you can play to your town meta as scum and completly fool everyone. So drop the argument because it's stupid and nobody is buying it.

Second, you don't gain any townie cred by revealing your neighborhood group. That could very easily be a scum gambit to look town. So drop the argument because it's stupid and nobody is buying it.

Honestly, pushing for others to accept unthinkingly accept you as town is scummy.

If anything revealing the neighbor group and pushing for the lynch of a partner is a push to remove a potentially useful town power role. If the overall assumption is right that 2 of the 3 are town, then those 2 should go along with the overall town consensus and render the third neighbor (scum) completely neutralized. THIS IS THE MUCH BETTER STRATEGY.

Your strategy of "Hey lynch one of the other guys" is so goddamn stupid and anti-town that you're probably scum for suggesting it.

Hey gzapsa, welcome to the game. Now get an avatar, then vote Zed for lurking.

[Kublai Khan]

no we did not discuss names in the QT

Well, I'm sure it wouldn't have made a difference. If their role names

are

scummy, then they probably would have lied anyways.

----

I sure wish more people were contributing to this game in a meaningful manner. We have a week to go until deadline and there's people in the game with less than 5 posts. (HINT: Zed)

Also--

Mod: please prod drmyshottyizsik & Zed

Done. -mod

[Kublai Khan]

I'd rather hear your backstory. The neighbors are investigation imune because their investigate as "Girls Club" instead of Club Scouts or Cookie Thieves. What about you?

[Kublai Khan]

Just in to pick up my prod. My apologies, I had some unexpected things to take care of that doesn't leave me time to post tonight. I'll be here tomorrow, heopfully with plenty to say.

this isn't going to fly much longer, get unbusy or replace out

QFT

@andrew94

I'm not believing your claim. Why would you be investigation immune? What the hell is a blank cookie (blank life)?

Still it sounds like we can verify it by lynching you.

UNVOTE: Zed
VOTE: andrew94

[Kublai Khan]

just because you say B is A, doesn't make it A

You've giving this lesson? Hilarious.

a scum in the girl's club would want all the girl's club to remain alive so that they could hide
a scum in the girl's club would want to use the girl's club as a cover for their scum team
a scum in the girl's club would not have outted the girl's club, therefore

that last one I disagree with

WHY do you disagree with the last one? give EVIDENCE that is the case

What better way to remove an investigative ability from the game? Out yourself, get one lynched, then night-kill the other one. You'll probably get lynched next, but the removal of a 2 pro-town half cops was swiftly accomplished.

Especially since your group only learns flavor-name, which is usually useless to scum unless there's some sort of deathnote mechanic in play.

[Kublai Khan]

@everyone: comments? anyone cannot see the case I presented?

Looks absolutely solid. Good job. As loathe as I am to admit it, it looks like Furcolow was right (although for all the wrong reasons).

So should we lynch her today or not?

Pros: RobCapone and Furcolow can outvote her as to their groups investigation/roleblocking target (she is neutralized). Might be able to squeeze an extra night of investigation out of them.
Cons: Why should we keep a scum alive any longer than they need to be? Scum flip will give us knowledge of how scum flavor names look.

[Kublai Khan]

I didn't fish for you to reveal that you were investigation-immune, andrew94. You supplied strange information and I asked you a reasonable question.

I still don't understand what a "blank cookie" is.. Seems too metaphysical.

[Kublai Khan]

Are you serious, Zed? Re-read 302 & 322.
----
Is gzapsa even playing this game or no?

[Kublai Khan]

Why would there be a blank cookie?
The premise of the game is that each person has a named cookie, which is why people have to leave if their specific cookie gets eaten. If there are blank cookies floating around it why would anyone get removed?

I thought about it and I think I know how it works flavor-wise, but I don't want to influence andrew94's answer.

UNVOTE

Still processing the posts and taking it all in...
But poison speaks sketchily, almost like a gesture

What's your progress so far? When can we expect you to be up to date?

Also, why did you place a vote in the middle of the day, without knowing the reasons behind it?

@Furcolow: At this point we'll only get one investigation/roleblock out of your group (unless your roleblock is successful). Scum will NK one of you or Rob tonight, then the other the next night. So Day 2 is the only day you can provide information. There's no reason not to lynch PoisonIvy today. I think the only thing stopping us right now is andrew94's scummy play.

A 2-shot unkillable miller is a stupidly powerful town role to have in a mini.

Generally, I think that if we lynch andrew94 today, we're able to test his claim. Scum aren't likely to try to kill him instead of one of the neighbors, so if he's legit, then he'll have two extra lives for later. PoisonIvy can then be tomorrow's lynch. Only difficulty is if PoisonIvy can ruin the neighbor's PR targetting.

[Kublai Khan]

Ugh. lewarcher82's rational about why we can't have a 3rd party 2-shot unkillable player can probably also be applied to scum. Unless we have a vig to speed things along, it would take 4 correct lynches to dispatch even a 2-person scum team. That's a rather large feat to expect from town.

This is frustrating. His play (mainly the unprovoked claim and vague deflective answers) is scummy as hell, but if his claim is accurate, then now I'm thinking that it's illogical for him to be scummy. (God I hate contradicting myself)

So the correct play is to test the accuracy of the claim. If he does survive, then he's more likely town then scum which gives us an extra quasi-confirmed townie.

@neighbors: Does your investigative ability help you learn flavor name (i.e. "Odd Olivia") or role name (i.e. "Vanilla Townie")? I would like PoisonIvy to answer first in case her answer differs from the other two.

Mod: Does anyone need to be prodded?

other than drmyshottyizsik, who said he would be busy, no one else is in prod range. (some are close)
I'll send a prod to drmyshottyizsik. -mod

[Kublai Khan]

Checking in to say I'm reading catching up on the thread. I'll post tonight when I can get my thoughts together.

Good job. Deadline is Monday. By posting today you can totally stall until the lynch is decided on.

The mylo discussion is a waste of time for a Day 1 discussion. Anyone who is against lynching andrew94 today needs to speak up and explicitly say why not.

[Kublai Khan]

Re-assurance that despite your actions, you're more likely to be town than scum/SK

[Kublai Khan]

i meant from the wagon, who is scum etc

obviously the third person on the wagon is scum..

Why would this be discussed prior to the lynch?

[Kublai Khan]

Congrats, I find you annoying. I also said I was posting later on. I was on the bus going to school. How am I supposed to have three or more windows open, quote things, and give proper responses to things on a phone?

Yeah, that's my style. I don't tolerate slackers. Over half of your 8 posts mention that you'll read the game later. It's the very definition of active lurking.

Why are you voting PoisonIvy and not andrew94 (or someone else)? What's your reason? And do you believe andrew94's claim?

Who are your top 2 scum suspects at this moment?

[Kublai Khan]

@Mod: prod gzapsa please. Also, you've still got Stigmata on your votecount list.

Oops, thanks for the reminder! -mod

@andrew94: You've been voting for drshottyizsik since the RVS. What has he done to remain your top suspect over anyone else?

Also @andrew94: What happened in game that made you decide to disclose your "no alignment" investigation result? Why did you ask for the neighbor's role names before doing so?

[Kublai Khan]

@andrew94: You thought everyone's flavour name was going to be "Odd Olivia"?

@drmyshottyizsik: Welcome back! Thoughts? Suspicions?

[Kublai Khan]

Okay. drmyshottyizsik is scum. This game is getting too easy.

[Kublai Khan]

Okay. drmyshottyizsik is scum. This game is getting too easy.

ya I've made three posts!! I'm obv scum! GO YOU!! No but REally KK, why am I scum exactly? Because I have reads on people you want to deffend? I just want to point out that a KK, Andrew, Lew scum team would make perfect sence

You are scum because this:

lew in mini's the mod almost always sends the scum a pm with the name of the VT role, and sometimes the other. Also if you just deduced the colour thing, and you dont know 100% then why are you so eager to lynch someone because of it?

Makes absolutely no sense. If the scum got a example vanilla townie PM, then PoisonIvy would have known that "Cookie Scout" is in blue. She didn't know that, but the other neighbors confirmed that their PMs had blue.

The fact that you're trying to make lewarcher82 second guess himself is a sign that you are scum trying to save a partner from a bad spot. lewarcher82, RobCapone, and Furcolow are near-confirmed town at this point. Darox, Elleran, and Llamarble are reading as borderline pro-town. andrew94 seems scummy, but if his role claim is accurate, then he's likely town. That leaves you, gzapsa and Zed. And I'm leaning towards Zed being the third scum only because Stigmata's backing out was a relatively townie thing to do from my perspective.

(gotta love day 1 predictions)

[Kublai Khan]

I'll switch my vote over to PoisonIvy at some point tonight. That'll put her at L-1.

My vote is that the remaining neighbors should block drmyshottyizsik.

[Kublai Khan]

Really? Nobody is going to post in the last 24 hours?

[Kublai Khan]

Alright. I guess we're done for today.
UNVOTE: andrew94
VOTE: PoisonIvy

[Kublai Khan]

Hey don_johnson! Long time!

Oh, and bah...

[Kublai Khan]

Fascinating, and it looks like we got lucky that Kublai wasn't hiding in the woods N1.

But I think we should NK Kublai.
I saw no particular "I'm not a PR" tells from him and he seems pretty reasonable.
"Too narrow thinking. There's all sorts of informative-type roles and corresponding ways to mislead them."
Also sounds like a player who might have thought a bit extra about PRs because he is one.

Yeah, I was getting super townie vibes from lewarcher and I figured that scum were as well. Since I couldn't disappear two night sin a row, I figured i'd save it for the next night. In retrospect that was a bad strategy (not just because I died).

FakeGod also let me know that taking my own cookie might look suspicious. I figured that someone had a role of watching the cookie basket (when Elleran admitted to this I knew he was town and those attacking him were scum in the Dead thread). When GCs mentions investigation immunity and other stuff was coming out, I figured that FakeGod setup a multiple partial-cop and partial-miller role combinations. Which is why I made the misleading comment.

Good job to scum. You guys took advantage of the VIs very well and played a good solid strategy of rope-a-doping town.

I was queasy about lynching PoisonIvy. Which I'm now especially confused since her PM lists all three colors. She really shouldn't have resigned herself to being hung like that. Furcolow's shitty, shitty play made RobCapone look town. Honestly, Furcolow is one of the worst mafia players I've ever seen.

@lew: You really should have acted more scummy with a vengeful townie role like that. Damn. I wouldn't have tried to lynch you in a million years.

I wonder why Stigmata left the game as scum?

Also: RobCapone = HopOnMyJoystick? Awesome.

[Kublai Khan]

Actually, now that the game is over..

Edited out... -mod

I think you're a good mod FakeGod, but I feel this was the wrong move to make. Especially since a town player already saw the information and commented on it. It's unfortunate that furcolow broke a rule (though it wasn't listed as a rule at the time), but I feel that the appropriate action is to acknowledge the damage done and punish the player (modkill or forcereplace). As it was, you created a pocket "informed minority" of GC + lewarcher82 which really screwed with my readings in this game.

The only things that should ever be redacted are inappropriate links (to ongoing games, porn, etc..)

I don't know. Maybe you are right. But I didn't have that in the rule set at the time, so I felt like I couldn't just modkill/punish furcolow.
-mod