Mini 1150 - There Goes the Neighborhood - Game Over

[Wickedestjr]

Hello everybody!

Reading the thread now. Should have my thoughts up in the next 2-3 days.

[Wickedestjr]

Nachomamma8 (20) - I have a few questions about your claim. 1.) Why do you think you have a better chance winning with town than with scum? 2.) How do you have more of an interest in killing the scum than town? 3.) If we did keep you alive, why do you say at least until the day before LyLo? I'll give my opinion on the claim once these questions have been answered.

Seacore, do you often self-vote in RVS?

Did you have an issue with his self vote?

@Twistedspoon & Packbat - Why no comment on Nacho's claim?

I see what you mean now.

I was thinking that if it looked like we were reaching a endgame situation but before we were there, we could get him vigged if it looked as if he might "switch sides"

(This is all assuming we have a living vig at that point) but as Sea stated, this all doesn't matter too much until we get to that point so there's no use trying to plan out so far in advance.

What sort of behavior prior to LyLo do you think would indicate that he was planning to switch sides? Personally, I can't really think of anything.

At this point I'm going to throw my vote at Krypt, as he's officially done the scummiest thing I've seen so far in this game.

Is it obv scum? No, but it's page 2 and I'd like to start voting based on suspicion.

Why did you add the bolded portion to this post? The bolded basically lessens the amount of pressure put on Kryptinen and gives you room to backpedal if necessary.

I think it's definitely the person who started the wagon, ie, the second vote. We should definitely lynch that guy.

I have to admit I just realized that and loled.

Unvote

I'd like to see Krypt answer Sea's questions.

Why the unvote? Also, why not vote Kryptinen here? Your previous vote had been what looks like a bandwagon vote: the third vote on the Seacore bandwagon and if you had switched your vote to Kryptinen, it would've been, at the time, the third vote on a bandwagon which actually had serious reasoning behind it.

AurorusVox, you questioned kryptinen and later voted her for unvoting but not revoting somewhere else. Doombunny9 did the same thing. Any particular reason why you didn't acknowledge

his

unvote?

kryptinen (52) - Have you ever done this before? If so, can you link me to a game where you did this as town. Have you ever done this as scum?

Personally, I'm not at all convinced by the points against kryptinen. I'm guilty of similar behavior in some of my very first games: asking stupid questions with obvious answers or no answers in attempt to create discussion. I think kryptinen seems townish: there's not much scum motivation for asking those questions, but lots of town motivation.

Jedo the Jedi (60) - I don't really find this post scummy, because I don't think scum are likely to do something which they believe will appear suspicious. But I do have two questions for Jedo the Jedi. 1.) Did you suspect anybody at the time of this post? 2.) Why did

you

think people would vote you for this?

I realize I haven't given a lot of suspects, but I intend to post a scumlist once I'm finished catching up. However, I'll also want to see answers to these questions.

[Wickedestjr]

@Doombunny9 (70) - Did you find Jedo's original vote for kryptinen in post 60 to be suspicious? If so, why no mention of it in this post?

@ Spoon: This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. It's a legitimate philosophy because people like you chime in and totally misconstrue the purpose. It's the reactions of course.

I didn't say I would ride this to a lynch, but if I do and she turns out scummy, I can look straight at you for the next suspect.

Those type of strong reactions really come in handy later.

If I interprated this correctly, you are saying you suspect Twistedspoon. Why? And is this because you think he's connected to kryptinen or do you think they are independently scummy?

Your original question to me did not look, at all, like you knew I was the 2nd vote. Was it a trap? Did you think I didn't know I was the 2nd person voting for me? You suggested that you thought I might 'panic'?

Just to be clear, what do you think is kryptinen's motivation as scum to lie about knowing you were the second person to vote you?

@Glass (75 & 77) - Why did you ignore Jedo the Jedi's response to your accusation? Did you still suspect him at the time? If not, why did you keep your vote on him?

Yes, the question was a trap. If you had not answered it, someone had most likely jumped in and told me you were the second vote. It's nice to see who jumps in on whose defense. This is such a small thing anyone could have done it, and so even a scumbuddy would have been brave enough to do it.

I'm confused. If somebody had said that Seacore was the second vote on his bandwagon before Seacore answered your question, then how would they be defending Seacore?

@Jedo the Jedi (83) - When exactlly were you going to switch your vote? You seemed to have a suspect at this point. What was the discussion missing? Also, what was the point of this comment:

If he knew I was town he would not be pushing this wagon so hard, or otherwise he's be in trouble after the flip.

He must not know you are town then, which means there's a possibility you are scum.

?

Oh yeah. I don't want to start the unraveling of a perfectly decent wagon.

Everyone have a good long look at this. How much more obvscum can you get rather than just admitting it? I don't see ANY pro-town reason for wagoning just for the sake of wagoning outside of the RVS, especially since you stated that you didn't think Krypt was scum.

Unvote, Vote: Jedo

Jedo the Jedi said it was simply a bandwagon vote in post 60. Why not acknowledge that until now?

AurorusVox, what is your opinion of Glass?

AurorusVox (98) - kryptinen asked him for his thoughts on Jedo the Jedi and Nobody Special. In this post, AurorusVox accuses kryptinen for asking this, but then proceeds to give his thoughts on both players and ends up suspecting both of them anyway. Looks like he's trying to have his cake and eat it too.

[Wickedestjr]

Quaroath (106) - If NS was your top suspect at the time of this post, then why did you have your vote on Jedo the Jedi instead?

[Wickedestjr]

@AurorusVox (114) - I'm curious what you think. Do you feel any pressure from a random vote? If not, how do you think random votes generate discussion?

Kryptinen is town, and

Seacore needs to take off his tunneling glasses.

What about AurorusVox? Do you not think that he tunneled?

Sorry this is taking me so long. Hopefully I'm finished catching up by tonight.

[Wickedestjr]

[

1: So not only did he evidently KNOW he was putting her at L-1,

] he didn't think it was necessary to state that was the case. As if this weren't bad enough, his reason for voting DoomBunny is so bad, [

2: it's like he's screaming "Don't look at me! Look at someone else! DoomBunny, look at DoomBunny!"

]

1: What exactly is giving you the impression that Nobody Special knew his vote was L-1? I'm not seeing it.
2: If this was the motivation behind his Doombunny vote, then why did he choose to go after Doombunny and not somebody else that was already getting attention?

Scum vibes from TS' post 104. He asks AV if he's happy with his Kryp vote and what he thinks of the other 2 wagons when I definitely can't tell you what TS thinks of anyone except maybe NS.

By the time of his post, TS had expressed suspicion of Jedo the Jedi and Nobody Special and mentioned that he didn't feel strongly about the kryptinen case. Who else did you want him to comment on? I find it odd that you get scum vibes from Twistedspoon for this reason despite AurorusVox having given less reads. What's even worse is that two paragraphs later,

you

ask AurorusVox for his thoughts on others here:

By post 118, it's clear that AV is hardcore tunneling on Krypt and saying nothing about everything else that's going on. AV, your thoughts on anything else?

If you asked AurorusVox for giving more thoughts on the game, then why is Twistedspoon suspicious for doing the same? Looks like

you

are trying to both have your cake and eat it.

Scum

Jedo
Seacore
NS
TS

Which of these four players do you think are connected to each other?


@Jedo the Jedi (164) - I would suggest not talking about ongoing games. It is a rule:

A4) You may not discuss other games still in progress in the game thread.

I'm still getting a fairly strong scumread from Jedi

, but I can't in good consciousness let Powerlurker coast through this >.>

This stance on Jedo the Jedi doesn't seem as strong as before. Did he manage to change your mind at all?

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: two pages left, then I'll give more actual thoughts

[Wickedestjr]

@krypt:

Nobody Special

In ISO 3 and 4, he's doing a pretty huge overreaction deal about that he didn't announce that his vote in ISO 2 put Krypt a L-1

Twistedspoon

His behavior seems a bit to... how should I say it... random in order to be town behavior.

If these are your two top suspects, then why are you voting Nachomamma8?

[Wickedestjr]

Okay, I've now gotten to the part where I replace in. Here are my responses to the responses of my questions...

@Wicked

RE: Doom doing the same as Kryp, I've already covered ^^"

Doom is also guilty of this, but his post at least indicated a reason along with it - that he's waiting for a response. Kryp has now had her response, but still no vote. Her continued questions indicate (to me at least) that she's not satisfied with the answers she's had so far, so I can't see what harm adding a vote to the pressure of her questions would do.

Noted. At the time I asked the question, I hadn't seen this post.

RE: Seacore's self vote - I'm undecided on the validity of self-voting (and other casual RVS behaviour) as a scumtell. My instinct bristles against it; but when I actually consider what a self vote is and what it does, it spirals into a WIFOM balancing act of purposefully bringing attention to oneself, negating a voting trail or early connections, and simply being cavalier. That's why I asked the question, to see what response he gave. I don't think his joking response was particularly scummy

(like if he'd tried to wriggle out of the accusation/changed his vote immediately for exa)mple

If Seacore was scum, how likely do you think it is for him to have done one of these things? And what do you mean by "wriggling out of the accusation" ?

That I don't use that much guile[1] in my play. This is partly because of playstyle choice, and partly because most of my play time is at work, where I'm working on four or five other things and I read recent posts and then post quickly. Thus I state what I mean. I didn't feel that what I said took away much pressure. I stated that it was the scummiest thing I had seen so far and would be pursuing it. Was my post just as good, or better without the bit you bolded? Maybe? But I don't think long on most of my posts, particularly my early ones. I type and submit.

Noted. What were you hoping to acheive with your kryptinen vote? I

do

think your post would have been better without the bolded portion. But my main reason for pointing out that post is because I think it is something scum would be more likely to say: I don't think saying that benefits town at all, but can give you room to backpedal.

Survivor claims are a matter outside my experience - I'm probably going to treat it similarly to a miller claim and evaluate him on his play, but I have no useful analysis to contribute on the matter.

I think most of the people in this game are unfamiliar with survivors. Why didn't you say this or at least acknowledge the claim?

Let me clarify. It's not a question of *if* he's going to switch sides but *when*. During a lylo situation, Nacho is going to want to quicklynch the first person he can (unless its him) which is why of we're nearing a lylo/mylo situation, we're going to have to vig him (Or if we don't have one, lynch him).

I understand this, but you still don't seem to answer my question. You said this:

I see what you mean now. I was thinking that if it looked like we were reaching a endgame situation but before we were there,

we could get him vigged

if it looked as if he might "switch sides"

(This is all assuming we have a living vig at that point) but as Sea stated, this all doesn't matter too much until we get to that point so there's no use trying to plan out so far in advance.

You say here that we could get him vigged

if

it looked as if he might "switch sides". What could Nachomamma8 say or do to make it look as if he might "switch sides" ? Am I missing something?

I was on Sea for RVS. When it was clear that we were moving out of RVS, there was no reason to keep my vote on anymore and to switch it as quickly as possible. Krypt was beginning to look scummy at that point but I wanted to give her a chance to explain herself before I was sure.

Makes sense, but I have a follow-up question: do you think there was any good reason not to vote kryptinen at this stage?

[Wickedestjr]

I didn't find his vote to be suspicious at first. At first, it just looked like Jedo was bandwagoning to ensure that we keep discussion going and that we didn't stop which was ok at first. It was only when he confirmed that he was just bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagoning that I began to find him scummy.

You didn't realize that Jedo the Jedi was bandwagoning just for the sake of bandwagoning even when he said he thought kryptinen was town:

Meh.

I don't see the scumminess of kryptinen. I actually understand where she's coming from, and I applaud the effort to get town discussing. This day is starting off slowly!

Anyway, my day 1 philosophy is to get a bandwagon going until we really have some heated discussion (or the person has a scum tell), so I'll move my vote over to keep the steam going.

unvote, vote: kryptinen

[rant]If you want to vote me for doing this, fine, but don't type some bullshit about it being a scum tell. Bandwagoning day 1 is a legitimate philosophy, and I won't have you calling me scummy just because you disagree.[/rant]

?

As for my having/eating cake, admittedly I did need to give reads on other players at that time, but the reason I called Kryptinen out on it was because she hadn't answered my questions of her to a satisfactory degree yet, and was trying to shoo me off elsewhere before in an attempt to get me off her back, which I didn't like, especially considering she called deflection a scumtell earlier. Since she'd asked, I wasn't going to outright ignore her, but I wasn't going to drop my line of questioning either.

Okay. That makes sense.

One scum is as good as another? Honestly I didn't think of moving it. I didn't want Jedo to go "pheew, the pressure is off me and i'm out of any spotlight for being scummy, and saying that I'm not scum because I said I'm doing something scummy.

In that case, why did you switch your vote to Powerrox93?

1) Well, if I were to try to win with scum, it would mean that I would have to lurk pretty heavily. If I were to do that much, there would be a good chance I'd be vigged/NK'ed for reading like a PR. This way, I can play normally and not get NK'ed for it, and the vig won't kill me as long as I'm helping the town.
2) I have a much bigger interest in killing scum than town because if we get to the day before LyLo, I die and lose.
3) Letting me die the day before LyLo makes sure that the town isn't screwed over by having a survivor in LyLo, but gives me enough time to lynch all of the scum.

1.) Theoretically if you did decide to win with scum: Why would you have to play like this to win with scum? Also, why do you think this strategy is better than other strategies?
2.) No, this is wrong. You have

at most

just as much interest in killing scum as town does. I don't see how you could possibly try to argue otherwise. Town's win condition is to get rid of all scum. They don't have any alternative/additional objective like you do.
4.) Which side do you think wins most often? Town or scum?

I find your survivor claim suspicious now that you've acknowledged that you'll die the day before LyLo. It would require town

at most

2 lynches to reach the day before LyLo. In every single mini game I've played, with the exception of two games that each had very overpowered towns, the town has mislynched at least

three

times. You've been on the site long enough. Are you honestly expecting to win this way?

[Wickedestjr]

...and I am finally caught up!

I'll post a scumlist as soon as possible. (It might have to wait 'til tomorrow.)

[Wickedestjr]

If I ever felt like kryptinen was town, I would move my vote. That never happened, and it still hasn’t.

Not even here:

Meh. I don't see the scumminess of kryptinen. I actually understand where she's coming from, and I applaud the effort to get town discussing. This day is starting off slowly!

Anyway, my day 1 philosophy is to get a bandwagon going until we really have some heated discussion (or the person has a scum tell), so I'll move my vote over to keep the steam going.

unvote, vote: kryptinen

[rant]If you want to vote me for doing this, fine, but don't type some bullshit about it being a scum tell. Bandwagoning day 1 is a legitimate philosophy, and I won't have you calling me scummy just because you disagree.[/rant]

?

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: Working on scumlist as we speak.

[Wickedestjr]

Forgot about this:

Wickedestjr, if you have access to the same neighbor thread Nobody Special had, can you tell us if Nachomamma8 claimed to you?

Well, I do have access to Nobody Special's quicktopics, but I'm not one of Nachomamma8's neighbors. Having said that, AurorusVox knew about Nachomamma8's role (if I interprated his messages correctly) so Twistedspoon must have told him.

[Wickedestjr]

Forgot about that.

Unvote.

[Wickedestjr]

Alright... Here are my current thoughts on all the players in the game in no particular order...

Jedo the Jedi

I'm not at all convinced by the points against him. The case seems to boil down to:

1.The preemptive defense of his kryptinen vote.
2.The way he announced that kryptinen was at L-1.
3.His read on kryptinen changed based on her defense of the votes against her.
4.The preemptive defense for lurking.
5.Using the 'too scummy to be scum' fallacy to defend himself.
6.Not unvoting when kryptinen was at L-1.

- #2 & #3 both seem like weak/incorrect points.
- #4 doesn't persuade me either, because I don't think anybody was accusing him of lurking anyway, so I don't see why he would want to draw attention to his inactivity.
- He has said that he wants to bandwagon somebody on day 1 until they appear innocent to him. If this was truly the way he decided to play this game, then why would he unvote when kryptinen was put at L-1?

The only points left are #1 and #5. However, these points are actually demonstrating out why I think he's town. This is because both points demonstrate that Jedo the Jedi has acknowledged that his actions are suspicious. Scum's goal in this game is to survive to the end and they do this by acting pro-town and not acting suspicious. It doesn't make sense to me that Jedo the Jedi, as scum, would do things that he knows will make him look suspicious. If he truly likes his way of scumhunting, then his behavior only makes sense coming from a townie.

Conclusion:

Town

Seacore

For the most part, I get the impression that he isn't trying to appear pro-town. I also believe that he actually believed in his kryptinen suspicion. However, I think he was a bit quick to switch his vote to Powerrox93 and I am curious about him unvoting kryptinen. He says that Nachomamma convinced him that he might have been tunneling kryptinen. Seacore, what points in particular changed your mind about kryptinen? Personally, I think that most of the points Nachomamma8 brought up were things you attacked kryptinen for. So, I find the unvote a bit strange. Having said that, Seacore still looks like town.

Conclusion:

Neutral/Town

Powerrox93

In post 48 he says that he wants to see how kryptinen responds to Seacore's case before he comments. Later, kryptinen

does

respond to Seacore, however, Powerrox93

doesn't

give his opinion on kryptinen. This shows that the real reason he didn't give his opinion on kryptinen is because he's scum that doesn't want to take a stance... either that, or he just got distracted by the opportunity to bandwagon vote Jedo the Jedi. There are so many things wrong with his vote for Jedo the Jedi, because he:
a.) Piggybacks Doombunny's vote.
b.) Votes Jedo the Jedi for bandwagoning even though his own vote looks like a bandwagon vote (it put Jedo at L-2).
Also, he says that Jedo the Jedi couldn't be any scummier, but then proceeds to switch his vote to Nobody Special in his very next post! This vote puts NS at L-2 as well. Is it a coincidence that both his first two serious votes were following four other votes? I don't think so. He doesn't even bother to provide much reasoning for either of these votes.

Then, there's the terribad Nachomamma8 vote. However, in his next post he mentions his top two suspects and Nachomamma isn't either one of them. I asked him about this, and in response, he says:

@Me voting nacho earlier: That vote was done in anger...

He's dismissed the vote as one done in anger, however, I don't get that impression from the vote when I reread it. If you read the post where he votes Nachomamma8, you'll see that he actually gives a reason for it, which, while inaccurate anyway, didn't indicate that he was voting based off of anger.

In addition, he's coasted through the game and I think he's also ignored comments directed at him. I think he is scum.

Conclusion:

Mafia

Twistedspoon

He hasn't contributed a lot, but he's very active and I don't get the impression that he's necessarily trying to fly under the radar. My gut says he's town.

Conclusion:

Town

LynchMePls

He's another player that hasn't contributed many thoughts on the game thus far. I have no idea who he suspects at this point, and I get the impression he is trying to appear pro-town by posting votecounts in most of his posts. Having said that, he doesn't seem connected to any of my other suspects at this point. I also think maybe he's been

too

scummy to be scum at the moment. I guess I'll just have to wait for more posts from him to get a better read. Until, then I'll say that he's town. Keep up the good work.

Conclusion:

Town

AurorusVox

There were several things I had issue with when catching up, but he did a good job of justifying all of his actions. I think it is townish how he tunneled kryptinen for so long, but I find it suspicious how he switched immediately after Seacore did. If you look at their voting patterns, they are exactly the same. It is possible that he could be scum trying to connect himself to Seacore to make him look bad if he dies. But it's not a very strong point, and overall I think he's town.

Conclusion:

Neutral/Town

kryptinen

I haven't had a problem with any of her posting thus far. I think it is pretty clear that she is trying to find scum, and I think she is town.

Conclusion:

Town

Nachomamma8

I think claiming survivor is something scum are unlikely to do, but at the same time I've explained why it doesn't make sense for him to have claimed if he truly is a survivor. Having said that, I thought about his actual posting thus far, and it looks townish-I mean... survivorish. Specifically, I like the vote for Powerrox a lot for two reasons:
1. I think Powerrox is probably scum.
2. He had plenty of people supporting his Jedo the Jedi vote and there was no scum motivation for abandoning that to try and start a new bandwagon from scratch: he wouldn't know how we were going to react to the switch, so it was a brave scum move if he's scum.
While I'm starting to think he's not scum, I think that we should lynch him the day before LyLo. If we are doing a good job of lynching scum, there's no reason for him to get lynched any time soon.

Conclusion:

Survivor/Neutral

Coming up soon....

Reads on:
Packbat
Quaroath
Doombunny9
Setael
Glass


And sorry for the huge post.

[Wickedestjr]

Quaroath

After he returns from his V/LA, he makes a post containing his thoughts from rereading the game. I don't like this post at all. Firstly, it is a wall post that contributes nothing new aside from his suspicion of Powerrox93. It looks like scum trying to appear helpful. The Powerrox93 suspicion looks really bad to me as well. Here's the part of his post where he decides to vote for Powerrox:

[

1: Nachos post #169 is full of win. When I was reading up, that exact post by Powerrox made me go.. uh… wtf?

]

@Nacho: You're calling me lurker? Yes you announced V/LA until the 9th of April but when did your next post come after that? Four days later! And your calling me a lurker? Nice contradiction there

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nacho

[

2: Pretty sure since he got back he’s not been lurking. Hell in one post he says more than you have ALL GAME. You haven’t said anything except crap. And even your crap is scummy.

]

[

Fuck!, I just reached the last post and powerrox is at L-2.

3: Oh well.

vote Powerrox

L-1

I’m okay with that.

]

(Heard the babies heart beat for the first time his morning, woo!)

1:

Piggybacking off of Nachomamma's post.

2:

Accuses Powerrox of not contributing much when he hasn't either. Very hipocritical.

3:

Very scummy vote Powerrox vote, for the other reasons I've just mentioned and doesn't make any sense for two other reasons:
- Reason 1: In his third post he voted Jedo the Jedi. In the next post he said that he thought NS was scummier, but didn't switch his vote. I asked him why and he said:

One scum is as good as another? Honestly I didn't think of moving it. I didn't want Jedo to go "pheew, the pressure is off me and i'm out of any spotlight for being scummy, and saying that I'm not scum because I said I'm doing something scummy.

If he didn't move his vote from Jedo the Jedi to NS (despite suspecting NS more) for this reason, then why was he able to move it to the Powerrox bandwagon so easily?

- Reason 2: When commenting on the kryptinen bandwagon, he said:

Seems I missed that there unvote.

Quaroath, why is the Kryp wagon bad? >:(

Built way too fast, there wasn't a really decent reason for it, and it felt like a "get the game rolling" bandwagon. It's good because it generated alot of info, but it's not a good wagon in and of itself.

The kryptinen bandwagon built to six votes in about one day. However, the Powerrox bandwagon also rose to six votes in about one day. So, why was kryptinen's bandwagon one that built too fast, but Powerrox's bandwagon, which built just as fast, wasn't? The vote looks opportunistic. It could also be bussing if I'm correct that Powerrox is scum.

Conclusion:

Mafia

Packbat

I'm having a lot of trouble getting a good read on him. I dislike how he needs to be asked for several of his opinions on important topics of discussion such as his thoughts. Specifically, he didn't give his opinion on Nacho's claim until I asked him and I have no idea what he thinks of Powerrox even though he's at L-1 right now.

I don't have anything to say about it - what should I say? I mean, thinking about it in light of the analysis, it seems like a plausible claim, because even if he's scum and there is one scum more than we expect, lynching him the day before LyLo would put us at LyLo the same way as if he were scum, so it wouldn't help him. Which means we can trust him as long as we don't trust him. Which means WIFOM. Which means it's not really worth wasting a lot of time analyzing before the second mislynch.

Even if you were undecided, you should have still given your thoughts on the matter. Several other players did despite never playing with a survivor before. If Nacho died and turned out to be mafia, it would be good to know how everybody reacted to the claim.

Packbat promised us reasons for suspecting Jedo the Jedi, Seacore, and NS in this post and never gave it to us. Why?

Also, this looks like a contradiction:

It was the speed of the wagon that made me as uncomfortable as I am - I had a gut feeling that I would find people using weak excuses to justify joining it if I looked back at the participating players.

One such player with an obviously weak excuse was Jedo the Jedi, but his wagoning was so blatant I hesitate to call it scummy - I instinctively expect more subtlety from scum.

(This, on conscious reflection, is a bit of a bias - there's no reason to think scum wouldn't be that blatant. I've seen them more so, in fact.) Excluding JJ, though, I came upon Nobody Special's vote and noticed the two factors I cited when I voted him:

...

In sum:

• kryptinen's wagon grew too quick to be purely town-driven;
  
• Jedo the Jedi's vote was scummy because of the way he used bandwagoning as justification;
  and
  
• Nobody Special's vote was scummy because of the way he stole AurorusVox's justification and the way he left out any hit that the wagon was at L-1.

Can you explain that please?

Finally, I think Packbat is also guilty of coasting throughout the game. I took a look at some of his completed games which he seemed to be much more active and a larger part of the discussion in.

Conclusion:

Neutral/Mafia

I'm posting these now, because I'm afraid they'll get deleted otherwise. I'm still working on the rest.

[Wickedestjr]

Doombunny9

For the most part, I like his posting. He was the first person to vote for NS and cast suspicion on Packbat when nobody else was looking in his direction. This vote and suspicion look townish because he didn't know how town was going to react. What I don't like is the oppportunistic voting. In post 76 he voted Nobody Special, but then, before seeing what Nobody Special had to say, he switched his vote to Jedo the Jedi in his next post after two other players (Quaroath and Packbat) had switched their votes there. Looks a bit opportunistic. He was also the fourth vote on Powerrox93. I am not really leaning either way at the moment.

Conclusion:

Neutral

Setael

I am having trouble getting a read on this slot too. He's posted only twice in the thread. The attack on Jedo the Jedi looks townish in that it looks like he actually believes that he's scum. However, at the same time there are several things I felt were worthy of questioning.

Conclusion:

Neutral

Glass

Bandwagoning day 1 is good, but you should apply pressure where you think it is necessary, and not just onto a prevalent bandwagon of someone you think is helping town (if I interpreted you saying that her trying to get town to discuss is good for town). A kryptin wagon is not the only wagon you could have joined to help apply pressure and commence conversation.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jedo

This vote looks very suspicious to me. Notice how never does he say anything along the lines of "I think you are suspicious because..." or "It is scummy how you...". He completely avoids stating his reasons for voting Jedo or even taking a stance on Jedo.

So let's review:
Jedo is voting someone he doesn't think is scummy over the person he thinks is scummy.
NS is voting doom for... idk, something that I don't find valid.
Krypt's responses sound like lame excuses, like this:

This is a great example of scum using IIoA. He basically just restates the reasons for suspecting these three players and

still

hasn't given his reads on any of them. Very suspicious.

VOTE: kryptin

This is his next vote and the whole entire post. Regardless of how clear the reasoning was, he still hasn't given his read of her.

Glass is pretty obvious scum. He has voted and asked lots of questions, but hasn't given a single stance on ANY player in the game. Just read him in iso.

Conclusion:

Mafia

[Wickedestjr]

TL;DR

My scumlist (in order from scummiest to least scummy) is listed below:

Glass
Quaroath
Powerrox93
Packbat
Setael
Doombunny9
Nachomamma8
AurorusVox
Seacore
kryptinen
Twistedspoon
Jedo the Jedi
LynchMePls
Wickedestjr

Note: I had a hard time putting Nacho, Doombunny, and Setael in order. I suspect them each roughly the same amount.

[Wickedestjr]

Mod: Setael has gone over four days without posting. Can you please prod him? Or is he on V/LA? Thanks.

[Wickedestjr]

Also, unless somebody unvotes, I'm planning to hammer Powerrox within the next few days.

@Everybody - What do you think of my points against Powerrox, Glass, Quaroath, and Packbat?

[Wickedestjr]

Packbat, what do you think of my points against Quaroath and Glass?

[Wickedestjr]

Also, kryptinen and Ts: same question since you're online now.

[Wickedestjr]

Evidently he thought the reason he gave for voting doombunny was a reasonable one, and that it would be enough to avert attention that way.

I still don't quite understand this. What gives you the impression that he thought his vote was a reasonable one? Also, ftr, the purpose of this questioning isn't to defend NS, but because I'm trying to get a better idea of your allignment.

I'm still not completely caught up yet, but noticed Powerrox's claim. I don't want to lynch him today, as we can learn more about him and, if he's town, others as well if he gets a chance to use his ability.

I don't want to lynch LlamaFluff today despite him replacing my top suspect. Instead, I'm going to

Vote: Quaroath

who's my next top suspect.

[Wickedestjr]

I thought I had responded to these posts, but it looks like I hadn't.

@ Wicked I can't tell either way from your post, but are you aware that LMP is the mod?

Yes.

@Wicked, I don't currently have the time that reading all their ISOs takes, but your reasoning doesn't have too big holes, just two things for now:
1) Doombunnys behavior can be seen as scum trying to redirect attention off of other scum, so I don't think it's a town tell.
2) You describe Twistedspoon's playing as classic acive lurking. Active lurkers don't want to fly under the radar, they want to make people think they are contributing when they are not. Why is this pro-town/why would town want to do that?

1) Can you give examples of this, please?
2) I don't think Twistedspoon is necessarily trying to appear like he is contributing. The reason for my town read is because his behavior reminds me of similar playstyles I've encountered in the past which came from townies. Also, the scumhunting he has done has felt townish to me.


@Nachomamma8 - If you are trying to hunt scum and are doing well enough, do you not think scum would kill you?

[Wickedestjr]

Can people please move their votes to the Quaroath bandwagon? Just a reminder:

• He made a big post in an attempt to appear helpful without actually contributing hardly anything new.
  
• He has coasted through the game just like Powerrox has.
  
• His vote for Powerrox...
  • -Was piggybacking off of Nachomamma's vote.
    -Was because he hadn't contributed much when he hadn't either (he even admitted this).
    -Was inconsistent, because he had previously stated he didn't want to switch his vote off of Jedo the Jedi solely because he didn't want to remove the pressure on him. (So why was he able to switch it in this case?)
    -Was opportunistic. In addition, he had expressed concern about the kryptinen bandwagon building up so quickly, but had no problem putting Powerrox at L-1 despite that bandwagon building up almost just as rapidly.

I thought about Powerrox's claim and have decided that I don't think it is the best idea for him to claim his results. I think he should wait until two days before LyLo to claim his results. This way we don't have to risk outing power roles when we don't need to. If he's town, then that's all revealing his results is going to do: out powerrroles. If he's scum he

could

be a scum watcher (Seacore said he has had one in one of his games and I have also modded a game with a scum watcher), in which case, posting his results won't benefit us, and if he's not a scum watcher, but still scum, then he could easily pick somebody to "watch" that he isn't expecting to be visited and claim that they weren't. This is a scum strategy which could last him another few days and even if he posts an incorrect result, it would require a power role claim to out him as scum.

I don't want him to wait to reveal his results until LyLo, because then if he's town, a scum player could claim that they are a power role and that his results are wrong, get him lynched, and win. I don't want him to wait until the day before LyLo, because that would be the day we lynch Nachomamma8. So, I think he should wait until two days before LyLo and claim all of his results at once.

Thoughts on this?

[Wickedestjr]

Hmm.. I completely forgot about the possibility of scum killing Powerrox. In that case, maybe it

is

best for him to claim his results every day. I can't think of a better option.

@kryptinen (regarding Glass) - I'm not sure if you are using the fact that he has given only two opinions as a point against him or not. Regardless of if you are or not, I don't think either of those two opinions help us at all. Both comments involve him giving his opinion on the

actions

of two players rather than his opinions on the players. He has never given his opinion on a single player which is very scummy. I don't see how I'm not getting much support with this point. What is

your

overall read of Glass? It wasn't very clear from your post.

[Wickedestjr]

@LlamaFluff - If we are going to lynch Nacho, I would prefer not to today because we need to get information from this lynch and I don't think a Nacho lynch provides much.

Also, can you explain your AV and DB scumreads please?

[Wickedestjr]

@Powerrox - Forget about that post. kryptinen changed my mind and I had forgotten about the scum's night kill.

[Wickedestjr]

Mod: I'm going to be V/LA from 4/25 to 4/26.

Sorry about that. Hopefully I'll be able to post tonight.