TM2012: Mafia in the Back Room (Game Over!)

[4nxi3ty]

hmm so we got 2wagons of nuwen and chamber. Both lld and chamber look like they want to get discussion going.

yos is trying to get into the dialogue with obvious statements. debating whether it comes from town stepping up and saying the obvious just in case or scum easing into d1.

either way.

vote: Yos

[4nxi3ty]

explain exactly which parts are iioa? and why you think that?

Also, what is your take on chamber, lld, and yos's entrance into this game?

[4nxi3ty]

That's all you get from me at this point.

thats fine, though I believe chamber wanted you to comment on chesskid.

The first sentence is really the only IioA imo. I was pointing out a pro-town behaviour in lld and chamber; With yos I was pointing out two likely motives for his posts.

-

I have seen scum fakeclaim miller d1, so independently I don't think it amounts to much.

[4nxi3ty]

@yos meh I don't think scumhunting is as simple as "I lay trap, Scum fall for trap". you haven't really took the time to consider the possibilty of being. Though it does show you weren't trying to ease into d1

[4nxi3ty]

*being wrong

[4nxi3ty]

Spyrex, what do you think about the rest of my posting in this game?

and what specifically about kuriob, chamber, and chesskid is town?

[4nxi3ty]

Spyrex, what do you think about the rest of my posting in this game?

and what specifically about kuriob, chamber, and chesskid is town?

I've got no plans to go into detail about my town reads unless I absolutely need to and I damn well dont need to now.

Considering the rest of your posts are just dancing around I'm not sure what you're even asking but I'll play along:

Why would you go town or scum and lay the vote down and then say "well those are the two options" like there's a third?

it is very easy for scum to say X and Y are town, it much harder to explain the why. I asking you to explain the why.

Which post are me dancing and what am I dancing around.

I never implied there was a third option, only that regardless of which motive was true I wanted to lay down a vote on Yos.

[4nxi3ty]

unvote

Vote: 4anxiety

What made you want to vote me?

Explaining Town Reads is anti-town.

logic behind this assumption?

[4nxi3ty]

meh i guess i understand that, but its fairly obvious whe someone changes their play midgame to fit your version or scum can just emulate previous towngames; your not really shutting down scum's options. Plus I think pushing people to explain their thought process far outweighs any sort've "I can't tell scum what I am thinking".

[4nxi3ty]

hmm?

[4nxi3ty]

unvote, vote: chesskid

[4nxi3ty]

moved my vote cause i am not getting scumvibes from yos's recent posts.

[4nxi3ty]

pressure to figure out which motive it might be

chesskid's jump felt the scummiest, felt like he waited until the time was right instead of just voting a his top scumread

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as for domain claims go, I would like to see how the night game plays without them at least one night then decide if it is the right idea.

[4nxi3ty]

What in Yos' 87 gives you townvibes?

Gave off vibes of town trying to figure out how best to navigate a setup, in particular how he considers LLD's idea could be better than his original.

Also thought him bringing in info. from a previous setup thats is relevant was very townish.

The only thing that bothers me about Isa is the jump on IioA, It is something I have done to push a mislynch, However his followup post looks like he genuinely believed I was scum hiding behind iioa.

Still think chesskid is mostly likely to be the scum on my wagon with the way he pseudo-defended me and than switched to voting me in a very short timespan.

[4nxi3ty]

Ime, when dealing with claims in a closed theme game one should always err on the side of caution; The fact of the matter is that we don't know how the setup is designed so we should'nt be hasty and once we claim there is no turning back, we can't unclaim. I don't think waiting til day 2 to claim will significantly damage any strategies, and if we wait we can compare and contrast the two effects of the two nights to see how much of an impact claiming had.

~

There are two groups of people in this game

those who thought you were obvscum from your first post
and those who think you're just really sucky town.

Why is being in the second group but switching to the second after more shitposting by you scummy.

Explain.

because it looks more like a switch of convenience rather than a natural evolution of suspicion. also, I don't get what gave you the impression I am sucky town or shit posting.

~

hmm so we got 2wagons of nuwen and chamber. Both lld and chamber look like they want to get discussion going.

Additionally if 4nx is scum wacky wild namedrops say one of LLD,Nuwen is way more likely to be scum although not as definitive as Kuribo fo sho town.

these posts followed by the nuwen vs. lld event is telling my instincts that something is off. Additionally, both LLD and Nuwen suspect chesskid/isa yet have strong scumreads on each other.

originally, I was leaning scum on Spyrex for his whole "Anx's is scum but I am not going to show why or what motive led me to this conclusion other than general post X is scummy". Recent instincts are telling me I am wrong about this read.

Gonna have to revisit some earlier events, In the meantime

unvote, vote: CC

[4nxi3ty]

why not? do you you think we shouldn't give someone an incentive to post more?

[4nxi3ty]

oh look, here's the Candyman now, and all I had to do was say his name five times

arrogance is bliss

So it was a pure and simple lurker vote?

more of a placeholde/motivator vote until I can reread somethings. I have know idea what cc's alighnment is

[4nxi3ty]

So I've thought over Nuwen and LLD's interaction and my gut is telling me it is scum bussing while laying suspicion on others. it is making me reconsider my read of chesskid from the comments about chesskid and isa.

Anxiety, LLD or Nuwen please.

neither until I can figure out if I can trust my instincts.

Kison genuinely looks like he is trying to stop a failwagon on one of his townreads, pretty sure he isn't looking for town cred or buddying up to me (he woud be voting with me if it were buddying, i think)

Kuribo has tones throughout his posts that I associate with town in confirmation bias.

DDD, I expected him to have at least a leaning town read on me at this point since he has seen me play before. Doesn't neccesarily make him scum, alternatives are he misinterpreted something about my play or his team convinced him I am scum. Nonetheless it still is concerning that someone who has seen my town play says I am obv scum.

If for reasons I will never understand we're not going to domain claim outright at absolute minimum I'd like some kinda random 2 domains instead of a full spread.

this is a good idea, maybe random is the best way to go N1, definetly a mistake to have it be random later.

leaving my vote on cc until I read through chesskid, nuwen ,and lld or there is something worthwhile from captain corporal

tegan and sara best portray how I feel about the progression of this day:

[4nxi3ty]

[4nxi3ty]

... that was a scum game and several months ago, ddd has seen my town play on mutliple occasions.

[4nxi3ty]

third option: 4nx is scum, Nuwen is his buddy, and mystery partner is watching his or her game go right down the toilet

I like this option best

This really sound like he's scum who is setting up an excuse to join either the Nuwen or the LLD wagon without really caring which one in order to save his own neck.

Really annoyed I can't push the idea of Nuwen/LLD bussing.

It is either going to be --- Why vote nuwen, u bussing? Or --- Why vote lld, survivalistic much? I guess I could vote them and just hope others think I am bussin, yet, I am pretty sure it would end up the same way --- Lynch Anx first.

--- Why is Kison defending anx, buddies? is another thing I have to keep in mind, it would be poor play to get a strong townread of mine lynched for my mistakes.

basically any action I take will probly backfire and, of course, inaction will lead too --- Why do nothing, fraid to reveal buddies?

Think the best option is to take a less traveled path and wait for people to either come round or my inevitable lynch, whichever happens first.

[4nxi3ty]

you have failed to considered to consider that the 1v1 suggestion happened after a decent size mob was entrenched on me.

[4nxi3ty]

cause the perfect time to bus is when there is significant momentum towards others, it would be a completely different situation if there were was nothing else going on or if there was already attention on one of them.

[4nxi3ty]

and if you look closely they have sat back and watched my lynch. Neither have taken an active stance for or against my lynch.

[4nxi3ty]

sigh, nuwen has done everything she can to attack the people voting me, she hasn't taken an active stance of why my lynch would be bad.

these quotes imply that I have done something that is suspicious as well:

Anxiety, LLD or Nuwen please.

Anxiety, pick your kneejerk reaction. Not in two days - now. I see you there.

[4nxi3ty]

Anytime you'd like to answer this, please.

You already have the answer... my first post about your 1v1 shows my knee-jerk reaction, I am not sure which of you is more likely to be scum based on individual posting but the interaction itself felt off.

[4nxi3ty]

Whoever said LLD & Nuwen are bussing, it seems unlikely for the reasons Yosarian2 laid out(day 1 scum lynch in a game like this would be painful for scum), but I can see how it comes across that way. By post #209 LLD is certain that Nuwen is scum with just about her only reason still stemming from not having her questions answered. Which as I've said before is ridiculous. That being an honest read seems unlikely to me.

Nothing stands out as having bothered me me about Nuwen's play. The idea of a 1v1 is reckless and nonsense, but considering she had 2 votes(I think) at the time, it doesn't seem like a particularly strategic scum play.

just cause something is unlikely doesn't mean it won't happen; I believe scum care more about winning the game than they do about keeping all of their team members alive, if they think bussing will help them win they will bus. Basing a read of someone, solely on your perception, of what you think scum are likely to do has the same fallacies as: A quick wagon is always scum driven, or when someone posts something you percieve to be scummy the rest of their posts will be more likely to be scummy as well.

The problem I have with Nuwen's play is it is more centered around attacking the people against me. If I was scum and saw a bunch of townies piling on one person, one thing I would consider is making the people on the wagon look bad for the following day. Also, compare her defense to yours. The vibe is "well he could be town" whereas yours is "yeah this totally looks like a mislynch". It shows a lack of effort in preventing a lynch imo. Maybe I am wrong though, and she just defends town reads by attacking the people who are piling on.

Another thing that bothers me is the wanting me, spefically over everyone else in the game, to pick between her and lld; Especially when considering that it happened right after there was a suggestion of me and nuwen being scumbuddies. I just percieved it as trying to make me look bad for being unsure about which is more likely to be scum.

[4nxi3ty]

tbh, I don't really care whether you live or die. Your wagonwell is so thoroughly poisoned that you'll HAVE to be lynched prior to an endgame or are just vig fodder.

well I am still holding out hope in finding an antidote if my play has truly been poisoned beyond repair.

what do you think about the people on the lld wagon?

[4nxi3ty]

Could you please link me two or three games you've recently completed as town?

you should do your own homework, my most recent town game is a mini normal and then I believe abarat, stargate, capcom crossover.

Is English your first language?
Would you call yourself paranoid?

yes.
no.

Why are you still voting CC, four days after placing down that "placeholder" vote?

leaving my vote on cc until I read through chesskid, nuwen ,and lld or there is something worthwhile from captain corporal

Can you show this? In what posts is kuribo displaying this?

4nx, you're at L-1 and thr best you can come up with is a lurker lynch?

this is the main posts that convinced me, it is very similar to ICEninja's phrasing in my recent mini normal (post26). overall how kuribo has phrased his attacks on me reminds me of pretty much whenever I run into a townie stuck in confirmation bias.

Is this you saying that you're aware of your town meta and that you're following it?

nah I am pretty sure my play is a bit different in this game because of the whole pressure cooker of TM2012 but there should be some similarities that would make having an obvscum read on me less likely. Basically, I expected DDD to be able to read me better but I guess I am wrong.

What makes Kison a strong town read? Have you read the posts me and Pamara have made directed against him?

him defending me when it wasn't popular to do so is something I find very townish. Also, his suspicion of a quickwagon felt extremely natural and not the least bit forced. I don't find your's and parama's points against him to be valid.

[4nxi3ty]

sigh...

claiming...

domains - rage, benevolence

casts - 2 vig kills each with their own condition to use, not revealing third cast

town pool - kison, kuribo, chesskid, spyrex, parama, isa

scum pool - nuwen, chamber, lld

more later if I have time

unvote, vote: lld

[4nxi3ty]

high priest of meme

[4nxi3ty]

3

[4nxi3ty]

yos2 is also in my town pool

[4nxi3ty]

everyone in my town pool is there for one reason or another, don't want to end up reading their lynches tommorow, so hopefully you can trust my instincts on this.

haven't see anything scummy or townish from either cc or ddd.

take the time to reevaluate nuwen v. lld, and look at how chamber jumped off of the lld wagon compared to his jump off mine. If I am wrong about one of my scumreads it would be my nuwenread.

thats all I really have to say, good luck.

[4nxi3ty]

pretty sure I am not the only one who has failed today

[4nxi3ty]

*yawn*

wish my team's rep was more sheepable... then maybe chesskid and cc would be voting LLD, hopefully the wolves won't eat them tommorow.

[4nxi3ty]

that was intended to help you and cc out <.< since you two are most likely going to get flak tommorow for your play today.

[4nxi3ty]

kk

[4nxi3ty]

Why are our points invalid?

Your main points against kison are he defended me, he answered for nuwen, and he attacked you and parama iirc.

I think you have drawn the wrong conclusions about the risk/reward of scum defending me at that time. And you ignored the possibility of town motivations for preventing a quicklynch.

Looking at kison's post it was more about pressuring lld than answering for nuwen. Once again, you were jumping to conclusions about town and scum motivations.

As for his attack on parama and you: A townie being suspicious of people involved in a d1 quickwagon isn't really that farfetched, is it? Its not like he is saying everyone involved in the wagon is scummy.