Mini 1336 - Revolution Mafia Game Over!

[implosion]

Hi. I'm town and all of you should trust me!

[implosion]

Also, this is a social experiment to see if people think the above statement is a towntell or a scumtell.

[implosion]

I know everyone here but TML, haschel and darox. That's fun.

VOTE: BBmolla

[implosion]

Too lazy to ask, must see firsthand

Trust: Darox

Trust: Darox

Trust: Darox

[implosion]

Hey spyrex, is there any particular reason that you unvoted in your first post?

[implosion]

Implosions always scum when I've played with him. As for the rest massive headache going to dr more later

Wrong. We were both town in Otters vs Tigers vs Sharks. Plus the only games I remember that you were in are that and chesskid's ipick (which I was indeed scum in).

kanye, yes, it was chair. Although it was barely a hydra. I did around 90% of the posting in both of the games that it was in.

Leading off with some kind of planned early game, talking about mechanics and I think I'd be paying slightly more attention to Spyrex unvoting as scum.

Actually, the 'social experiment'

should

be seen as a nulltell. I was planning to say it before I got my role PM. I can point out a towngame (most notably, cyclic experiment 2) where I very heavily talked about mechanics in one of my first few posts. Also, what does "slightly more attention" mean? I paid just enough attention to see it as notable.

[implosion]

I don't trust that kid with a ten foot pole.

wink wink

don't make me make a case on you

[implosion]

He seems too enthusiastic to me, seems too quick to call someone town (darox) making it seem like he knows something we don't, especially since I don't agree with his reasoning.

TownLlama is enthusiastic from what I remember. Don't remember early play/how quick he is to call people town. On the other hand I've never seen him as scum.

[implosion]

Trust: BBmolla

Why? Every one of BB's posts so far are things that he would have said as town or scum.

[implosion]

So you're willing to lose the game if you're wrong about two page-one scumreads?

[implosion]

I think tokens granted means "tokens granted to that player."

[implosion]

Vijay your analysis of us being different alignments makes no sense. Just saying.

This. Actually, mathematically speaking, you can

never

identify two people as being different alignments more strongly than you can identify one of their alignments on its own. For instance, say that you're 70% sure that X is town and 60% sure that Y is scum. Then the probability that they have differing alignments is (.7*.6)+(.4*.3) = 54%. More than that, it's logically provable that there are no "they have different alignments" tells (that is, there's no reliable way to say 'i'm X% sure that these two players have different alignments' without saying how likely you think each of them are to be each alignment. Basically, scumhunting ought to start on the individual scale.

Also, criticizing vijay for voting me without calling me scum is plain reaching. Voting post-RVS in and of itself is a declaration of suspicion.

[implosion]

Add implosion to the pool of possible scum for his stupid wordy over explanations of anything and everything

That's just something I like to do for fun. I can provide past examples if you want me too.

[implosion]

No.

Saying "I just feel BB and implosion have different alignments" is unacceptable.

It has exactly as much merit as the statement "I feel an asteroid with mass at least 7 kg will hit the earth some time between 6.04 and 6.05 million years from now."

This is

regardless

of how you ascertained your answer.

I'm not saying this just because i like to argue logic - if we allow people to use "I think one of x and y is scum" as an argument, it allows scum to chain-push two people without any accountability until they both flip town. Essentially, it gives them a free ride for two days (or more than that if both the targets stay alive longer) by just saying "well one of them is scum, one flipped town, let's lynch the other now."

Unsound conclusions can never have sound reasoning. I don't even need to know what your reasoning is to know that it's wrong. Even if one out of me and BB winds up being scum,

your reasoning is still wrong.

[implosion]

Actually that example statement might have merit, but as vi would say, etc.

[implosion]

I'll do the whole scumhunting thing tomorrow probably.

[implosion]

If those reads were gotten separately from each other, then by all means.

[implosion]

The post two posts above this post is reaching.

[implosion]

Nope, you're wrong. Thanks for playing.

In the words of many a mafia player before me, "Care to explain why?"
In the words of me, "Wanna not be a dick about it?"

[implosion]

I can see kuriboscum.

BTW if two players are independently very scummy but also very unlikely to be scum together a 'one of these is scum argument' can be legit.

Agreed. This isn't how vijay was thinking about it, as his 60%-40% statement shows.

Matt, telling me to adjust my scumdar because I don't think that one random tell has as much weight as you're saying it should is a bit... what's the word. Patronizing? Don't you think?

[implosion]

Anyway, let's get a wagon going.

Unvote, Vote: kuribo

[implosion]

Like, kuribo on this page seems like he's trying too hard. And not the good-kuribo-i-will-blow-up-your-house kind of trying too hard.

If you know what I mean.

Which you probably don't seeing as i'm not entirely sure what i just said

[implosion]

yeah, maybe i'm just insane.

[implosion]

Ok.

Let's do something about this game.

I very strongly agree.

[implosion]

Yeah, I've been trying to post but i haven't really had the morale to start actually figuring things out. But Darox saying that I provided no reasons of my own for the kuribo vote is... yeah. no. i did. they just weren't very good.

Today, I have to work. Tomorrow, I'm also going to have to work. I'll be slowly gaining morale over this week, most likely. I'm graduating from high school in about a week... so yeah.

vijay might be scum.

[implosion]

Not in recent memory.

[implosion]

Why not?

[implosion]

are you trying to fit in because you're scum and the player list makes you nervous?

None of the three things in this sentence are true of me.

[implosion]

I should stop lurking soon. Sorry.

[implosion]

I graduate tomorrow.

Don't see Llama as scum.

More comments about this game at some point in the future.

[implosion]

holy shit i didn't realize that the deadline for this game was in under 24 hours until now.

Reading.

[implosion]

In the order that I read them for some reason (isos):

vijay: meh. I can see him as scum, i can see him as town. A lot of things he's said seem manufactured (his first vote, the thing about me vs bb, the second line of post 79 which seems preemptive sort of, although he might have misconstrued what Matt said in the previous post). Other things seem genuine. Or at least I think they do the first time I read them, and then they don't. Like This. So I guess I'd put him as scummy.

MattP: townier than I think I thought he was before, but not so much that I'm in agreement with Llama that he's obvtown.

Spyrex is kind of giving me some of the same disgustinggutscumvibes that he gave me in the only other game i've played with him (in which he was scum). Can't pinpoint it. Other game, I could. He might have just been readable as a fluke in that game. Looked at random towngame (league mafia) of his, don't get the same gut ping, but that might be bias. Shmr. Dunno.

Darox is still town

Elmo is nulltown

kuribo is a scum candidate. His marble push is feeling more and more meh as i read further into it. It feels... insistent, in a way. Disingenuous in a way. I feel like he's inflating the importance of certain things more than he should be. 286, for instance. I mean, sure, the point is valid - but insofar as Llama has been contributing, and contributing more than many people in the town, calling him scummy for also talking about how he

has

been contributing, especially after Fate called him out on it, is just... meh, nah. I don't think it's a genuine attack. For some reason I feel like kuribo should be scum here. But there are also attacks on Llama that look genuine. 227 for instance. I think the llama-attack-brigade (spyrex, kuribo, fate) is giving me bad vibes (except i haven't read fate yet so i guess i'll do that next) for some reason. Maybe because I've been thinking llama is town and that the amount of pressure he's under is a bit strange. On the other hand the scumvibes from spyrex weren't really from his llama vote so meh.

Fate. Posts 95-97 remind me of spyrex-scum. Of course in this game townlists are actually really important so etc. Actually after reading fate kuribo looks very good in comparison. In 272, Fate criticizes Llama for talking about contributing rather than contributing. Up until that point, Fate's contribution to the game was essentially an amalgam of reads. Those reads all lacked explanation. He had placed several votes, called several people town. Reasonless voting is something I'd expect to see to some extent from townFate, but not this much, and especially not with the very first explanation being a criticism for lack of contribution.

So at this point, Fate's probably scummier than kuribo. That one post from kuribo just feels genuine, so I think he's town for now. There's probably scum in {fate, spyrex, kuribo}. Right now, I'd say that scum is, in decreasing magnitude of likelihood, fate, spyrex, kuribo. Someone is going to accuse me of setting up lynches for saying this~ although there could actually be two scum on that wagon, potentially.

BB: Town enough for now.

kanye: null. I think I'm probably going to be bad at reading him in general, too. I think I have a tendency to find his posting style scummy, which I'm trying to compensate for.

Voided: TML was scummy, Voided is also kind of scummy (really don't like 338, particularly the way over-complicated justification for the vijay vote). Actually, looking a little more closely, he says that the lineup of BB, Spyrex, Implosion, Matt, Darox, and Fate looks like "not a bad lineup" except for BB. But two posts earlier in his list of reads... 1, he described me as being like BB. 2, he said matt was scummy. 3, his only comment on Fate was negative. So uh... yeah, he says that this list of people isn't bad immediately after criticizing/scumreading 2/3 of the list. He called spyrex and darox town, but eugh. Cognitive dissonance? Not sure what's going on there, exactly.

HC: nulltown.

So, my scumreads consist of probablyFate, Voided, and Vijay.

[implosion]

Trust: Llamarble

Trust: Mattp

i guess
(and i'm already trusting darox)

Unvote, vote: vijay

I'd rather vote Voided frankly, but there doesn't appear to be a wagon on him at the moment.

Also i'm not bothering to check if this is an accidental quickhammer because of the unvote rule

[implosion]

So they were impressions.

So you said that the list of people whom your impressions of were mostly negative was a good list because ________

I mean, even if they were impressions... saying that you think the list isn't bad is kind of strange when you still have negative impressions of the majority of the list, wouldn't you say?

[implosion]

If we could get a flashwagon on voided that would be really nice >.>

actually it'd be kind of deja-vu with voided having gotten lynched day one in GI's last game... but meh. I'm inclined to agree with 385.

Unvote, Vote: Voided

[implosion]

Deadline in:

(expired on 2012-06-05 00:00:00)

A votecount would be really nice right now too.

[implosion]

It might have been under the inside knowledge clause. I wouldn't be surprised if they had no kill, though, considering that we lose if there aren't enough townies to carry out a mission.

[implosion]

Deadline in:

(expired on 2012-06-05 00:00:00)

[implosion]

my townread on you sucks? :\

Essentially, i reread you, realized that me thinking you were scummy was playstyle-based, and thought 177/299/some others were townish.

[implosion]

did vijay just townslip?

[implosion]

I trusted mattp, not spyrex

[implosion]

no it isn't.

[implosion]

VOTE: elmo
1 minute before deadline just in case~

[implosion]

just in case~

I'd rather lynch elmo than nolynch and like 11 people voted him and i didn't feel like checking if it was a majority and the deadline was in one minute.

sue me.

[implosion]

3. Lynches require votes equal to the majority of the players (Number of living players/2, round up).

[implosion]

hm. and then there's the rule after that one.

[implosion]

Uh. Something happened overnight. Not sure what. I'm just gonna say don't give me any trust tokens for now, but I'm fine with the plan that's going on so w/e.

Trust: darox

Trust: mattp

Trust: llamarble

Vote: Voidedmafia

[implosion]

Meh. It's probably the scum's doing.

I was compromised. I have no clue what it means. I'm kinda guessing that it means that missions won't work if I'm on them, maybe? I was a little afraid that I might have been recruited or something, but this isn't a bastard game so etc.

It might be the equivalent of a nightkill. Although I really don't see myself as a likely nightkill candidate last night. If, by some chance in hell, there is a redirector who redirected someone to me last night... claiming might not be a bad idea.

[implosion]

I decided it when i saw my role pm.

[implosion]

Yeah. That's what I mean when i say it might be the equivalent of a nightkill. Scum might lack a factional kill, but have a factional compromise that does... something.

I have a hunch, by the way. I feel like if there was exactly one scum in the mission pool, they'd have sabotaged. One scum out of six people? Why

not

sabotage? The odds of being lynched would be low as hell anyway, and they'd have no reason to risk seeing what advantages the town could game. So I'm inclined to say that either no scum is in the pool (obviously, in this case, it wouldn't be sabotaged) or that there are multiple scum in the pool, in which case they probably wouldn't sabotage so that the scum in the pool can gain towncred.

That said, I'm not sure which situation is more likely.

[implosion]

Let's say that the scum are planning on never sabotaging. Then, in theory, our goal would be to have as many town on each mission as possible so as to maximize the amount of townies who gain towncred by being on successful missions or who gain rewards from those missions.

I really don't see how shifting the roster will allow us to PoE the scum, Darox. Could you elaborate? Obviously, if they sabotage, then we get a list of people that will contain scum - but that's just what we get. One list. Even if scum sabotage a mission, that gives us absolutely no guarantee that they'll sabotage any other missions in the future.

[implosion]

Is the resource you used on me last night the reason that I was compromised?

[implosion]

Okay.

So that kind of eliminates any speculation about the existence of a nightkill.

[implosion]

You can all vote for voided now.

[implosion]

No, i want people to vote you for all of the other reasons that i already explained.

[implosion]

the scumclaim is in 497.

:S

[implosion]

Read posts 405-409.

[implosion]

And Voided, saying "well that's not what I meant" when what you meant is

damn clear

doesn't change shit.

It's factual that you essentially said that you liked a list full of people that you called scummy.

It's my opinion that this is a very, very significant scumtell, involving cognitive dissonance (not expressing opinions in accordance with reads) and, at worst, a sheer contradiction.

You stated that you thought the lineup was good

while your reads from 17 posts ago had indicated that you thought most of the lineup was bad.

It does not matter if your opinions of those people changed after post 338; at the time of writing, your posts were explicitly contradictory to your stance on the mission.

[implosion]

don't think you're allowed to copy that out though.

He thought that something which was actually public information was private information; i.e., that only townies were told what he was told.

[implosion]

implosion which vm posts are you referring to?

That's gonna have to wait now. There's a single-day LoL tourney tomorrow (today?) that I'm in that I need to get a little bit more training in for, so I'm going to devote most of today and tomorrow to that. Anything else I do over here will either be for the Open I'm in or for the Open I'm modding. I will get back to you as soon as the tourney ends, though. I have been watching from the beginning, though, so I'll give some simple thoughts from what I remember:

BBmolla isn't even here and needs to be. Not sure if it's null-lurking or scumlurking right now, so that'll require a reread.

Darox, IIRC, was okay. Slightly on the town side.

Don't really remember Elmo.

Lack of Faterage aside, I'm not really liking his attempt to discredit Marble's point of quoting his ISO. Not that I disagree that it's a bad thing, but I don't think it's THAT bad.

GreyICE is always scum.

Don't remember anything from Hendric. Like, at all. I have this vague town feeling from him, but that's about it.

Implosion is in the same boat as BB, I think, though not as bad. Still needs to do stuff.

Kayne is null.

Loudness (or lack thereof) aside, Kuribo is also null pending the reread.

MattP feels like scum.

You, Spyrex, lean town.

Vijay I'd only say town because I like him and all, but from what I recall he was really cheeky in a scummy way.

Again, this is basic stuff. Something more comprehensive will come sometime tomorrow.

Mission looks like it'll be BB, Spyrex, Implosion, Matt, Darox, and Fate. Not a bad lineup, cept for BB cuz he's not doing anything.

Went over Vijay's ISO. The early parts are bad (the don't/just typo, the 60-40 thing), and together are worth a vote, but I wouldn't push that to a lynch. However, considering that 247 attacks me and tries to get a chainlynch going on one of my sure townreads (Marble), I don't like it one bit.

Vote: Vijay

[implosion]

I accept the point on Fate, but not on Matt. I already explained that part to Matt himself. Besides, 4/6 isn't that bad.

Uh...

1) 4/6 is

very bad

. Here, let's count up the reads that you gave in 321, counting lurkers (me/bb) as nullreads:

null/town/null/scummy/town/null/null/null/scum/town/town
5 null reads, 4 town reads, 2 scum reads. Hell, let's add you to that list. 1 confirmed town (fypov if you're town), 5 null reads, 4 town reads, 2 scum reads.

Out of this pool, the mission was 2 scum reads (BOTH of the people you listed as scummy, fate AND mattp), 2 null reads, and 2 town reads.

If you were to pick randomly out of that list, you'd expect to wind up with about .5 confirmed town, 2.5 null reads, 2 town reads, and 1 scum read.
In other words, .5 more confirmed town, .5 more null reads, and 1 less scum read.
In other words,

picking randomly from your list of reads would have produced, on average, a better list, based on your reads, than the mission at that time.

Now you tell me that the mission is "not bad."

2)

Let's look a bit at the point about matt. Your response, as far as i can tell, was that your read on him was based on a loose read at the time.

I don't care what it was based on. It's a fact that at that point in time, you had matt as a scumread.

So yeah.

[implosion]

Again, I never said your lurking was scumlurking, or that you or BB were scum. You two weren't the BEST, but you weren't bad (the "you two" is obviously plural and "but you" is singular). And at least 4/6 isn't that bad at all.

We weren't the best.
We were part of a below-average mission.
Considering that both of your at-that-time scumreads were on the mission, you should have had absolutely no motivation to comment on how the mission isn't going to be bad. It's simply nonsensical. It's like saying "i went to florida last weekend," having someone ask you what florida was like, and saying "why, the weather in hawaii is wonderful!"

[implosion]

VM is town we already decided this yesterday

holy fuck this game

We wagoned him.
Then we unwagoned him.
Now we're rewagoning him.

Remember that counterwagon on elmo? Yeah, the one that ended when Elmo flipped town? yeah

[implosion]

Fate is an acceptable alternative lynch. Llama isn't.

[implosion]

Unvote
Vote: Haschel Cedricson

[implosion]

hint: I haven't read this game and I'm not going to until I get on a mission or die

We really don't care if scum read the game funny story

[implosion]

oh god llamarble just cited bayes rule in a mafia game

i don't even know how to respond to that dude

[implosion]

Nope. Here's what your post pretty much looks like:

[implosion]

still think marble's town and voided is scum
but there's something that i think we're overlooking here
what the fuck, exactly, is a 'software activity detector' and why didn't you explain it in your initial claim

OH NO IMPLOSION IS ROLEFISHING

[implosion]

...maybe scum can gain things from missions?

holy shit i broke something

[implosion]

good lynches are voided and fate, and possibly HC.

[implosion]

The funny thing is I bet you don't have a shred of fucking reason to go along with any of these,

Disparaging for the purpose of disparaging, particularly when said disparaging makes the fact that you aren't a particularly avid reader of this thread, deserves no response.

[implosion]

dammit voided.

[implosion]

I had that post typed before you made your post >_>

I'd be very happy with a fate lynch. Although really, i'm not sure who's voting who at this point.

[implosion]

Yes, i do see the blatant stupidity on this page. It's bleeding out of posts 702, 703 and 709.

[implosion]

Also.

ITG, Fate reveals his primary method of scumhunting.

ISO himself and see who looks the scummiest.

[implosion]

Matt, what in 741 and 744 makes Fate town? :S

[implosion]

vijay is and will always be town.
Dunno how i feel about a kanye vote.
Also starting to second-guess my voided read, incidentally.

[implosion]

Meh.

VOTE: kanye

[implosion]

I feel like llamarble. I have reads, but I'm not really confident in any of them, and I'm not sure why.

[implosion]

Just everyone fucking vote kanye and lets get this day over with.

This is basically my attitude right now >_>

[implosion]

@CES: bah whatever. I think the point that I was making (but couldn't think of a good way to express without math at the time) is that S-T pairs don't really give tells as being S-T pairs on day one. Yeah, a counterclaim is enough to identify a pair as being opposite alignments, but I don't think that any tells that occur solely through regular play are enough to identify a pair of people as SvT without identifying which is which. Scumhunting isn't only on the individual level, but having gut feel that two people are different alignments without any concrete reasoning isn't valid. I do understand the need to point out bad math, though.

It isn't really relevant anymore anyway, since i've basically written off Vijay as town.

I like CES's scumreads.

[implosion]

Maybe I'm susceptible to buddying but that's because usually people who do so are town.

I've been doing this to you all game

[implosion]

unvote

VOTE: fate

[implosion]

remember that whole thing where being at l-1 doesn't matter because it takes two days for a lynch to go through, yeah...

[implosion]

I'd hammer.

I could do no less than send him to the afterlife with a warm embrace

THE SPYREX I BRO AND LOVE WOULD NEVER ACCEPT FATE'S DEATH AS TOWN, LET ALONE PROMISE TO HASTEN IT

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=21484

[implosion]

THIS SI A SLIP

I read this line of your post, then decided not to read the rest because it's probably just a misspelling-laden rant, and i'm really not in the mood to read a misspelling-laden rant.

[implosion]

You know what would be really funny?

If people in this thread were capable of coming to some form of consensus.

We're damn close with Fate, so let's not slow down this time please?

[implosion]

hey guys?

there are five hours left until the deadline, yeah, we might want to lynch someone before then

and Fate's a good choice.

[implosion]

WHY DO I KEEP FORGETTING THAT >_>

[implosion]

Hey voided. There's two hours until deadline and there's a majority on you (i think), you might wanna claim.

[implosion]

Your playstyle leads itself to long winded posts and over explanations. Those are INHERENTLY scummy

This line destroys any vague amount of credibility that Fate's read on llama had. yes, i'm taking part of the sentence out of context, don't care.

[implosion]

VOTE: Fate

[implosion]

I haven't posted here in a while, have i.

that's probably because there isn't anything to say until fate dies.

[implosion]

We need some trust tokens to go vijay's way.

yeah, you're probably right.

Trust: vijay

Trust: llamarble

[implosion]

Fun fact one: more information exists now than did when we first made the original mission list.
Fun fact two: the people on the original mission list aren't confirmed town for missions having been successful.

[implosion]

Well poop.

ANYWAYS:

Anyone else who targetted BB will have lost their vote, any abiltiies tonight and anything else.

Soooo lets see what shakes out.

you claimed this why?

wouldn't it be better to wait to see who's voteless, then ask those people who they targeted to see the scumz that fall out?

[implosion]

spyrex may very well need rope.
CES's point on llama is interesting and quells some of my paranoia about him as well.

[implosion]

Maybe I'm wrong about one of them but I am okay with losing the game if I am and congratulating them on playing really well as scum.

Remember bedtime stories? Y'know, that other game that greyice modded.

Yeah.
If scum isn't one of Thomith / Neruz / WV then scum deserves to win.
There will be ANGER if you let one of them win as scum.
Banshee, Elli are obvtown.
RD, EB, Implo are town for role-reasons.

Ellibereth was scum. The fact that llamarble says shit like this as town is also a towntell for him. But yeah, meh.

I want spyrex to answer my question.

[implosion]

hey spyrex, way to ignore my question that i asked and then later said that i wanted you to answer

[implosion]

hey spyrex, way to ignore my question that i asked and then later said that i wanted you to answer

Thanks!

VOTE: SpyreX

Trust: Llamarble

Trust: kuribo

[implosion]

Um okay. Will vote Spyrex after a VC.

blah blah blah 48-hours-after-hammer blah blah blah

also

Trust: vijay

forgot him.

[implosion]

Errr if I dont get lynched today and this is a failure I dont want to do this song and dance again tomorrow. I'd rather be lynched now and not that guy at lylo.

Revolutionary.

Got BlackICE which allowed me to target someone and anyone targeting them with any software (it was specific) would get the shaft - no vote, trust tokens or be allowed on the mission.

See, this is why i asked spyrex the question.
I got black ice too, last night (so i haven't gotten the chance to use it yet).
My immediate thought upon seeing it was 'hm, use this on someone that scum will target, ask anyone voteless to claim tomorrow, and hope that they screw up.' Then i see syprex claiming the exact same thing, except he said that he had targeted BB... which essentially

destroys any informational gain that the ability could have created.

Any scum who didn't want to claim targeting bb last night can just BS something now because they know that they have to.

[implosion]

I'm paranoid of mattscum.
That's probably why i'm not trusting him right now.
My level of paranoia is lowest with those that i'm trusting. If spyrex flips town after continuing to ignore me then god damn.

[implosion]

I will be V/LA from tomorrow until Wednesday. Going to New York. I will still have access (i think) and will still be able to post, but i might not really be in the mood to so i probably won't be posting particularly enthusiastically.

spyrex can die now.
Any thoughts on whether/how i should use the black ice that i got last night? Like other powers, there's going to be some kind of consequence if i don't use it, but i'm not sure how best to use it.

[implosion]

So i'm pretty out of it in this game, so random question for now: why are there so many townreads on BB, anyway?

[implosion]

CES, mattp and kuribo are all trusting him right now.

[implosion]

Kanye and Darox should make themselves useful, one way or the other.

[implosion]

oh yeah, no nolynches.

:shrug:

kanye, why the deliberate inaction? Are you trying to protest against current wagons?

[implosion]

BB, you realize that your unvote-revote thing is going to make CES lynched because now he's been at L-2 longer, right

[implosion]

BB... i think it's safe to assume that the scum lack a nightkill, so how the hell do you go from "i hate nightless games" to "i'd have sabotaged by now"

and how do you hate nightless games after you won that one mini where we were scum together...

[implosion]

3:10 nightless

where having less than 5 townies alive means an instant loss

is probably balanced.

[implosion]

...but you were talking about what you would do if it was nightless as scum.

[implosion]

"I hate nightless so if i was scum i'd have killed someone"
"nightless is more fun as scum"

god if we didn't have 3 hours until deadline.

[implosion]

implosion I didn't realize that this was legitimately nightless, I thought scum were being pussies.

And this resolves the contradiction in 1599 how exactly

[implosion]

must.... resist.... urge to repeat OvTvS...

[implosion]

exactly, llamarble.

You do it with one minute left until deadline.

[implosion]

no.

VOTE: bbmolla

[implosion]

no.

[implosion]

Right now, i basically have townreads and people-that-might-be-scum. My townreads are, in order of confidence (i think): llamarble, kuribo, vijay, CES, darox. Which leaves kanye and bbmolla. It also leaves mattp, but he kind of defies the scale because i feel like some of the things that i (and others) have been thinking of as towntells might just be shit that he does - i've been thinking this since i noticed multiple random games (i think at least two) where matt wound up winning as the last living scum. So metaing him would probably be a good idea, but god, i'm at a loss for motivation in this game.

[implosion]

Regfan's read on me is pretty much where it should be, and for the right reasons. But the slot could still be scum. Although I'm doubting it. He's also right to an extent regarding kanye and sexy sedilla.

Now, i just have to make up some bullshit to get bb lynched...

And i'm keeping my vote on bb for the time being.

[implosion]

Actually if we're not at MYLO/LYLO then go ahead and lynch me, means I don't have to look at this game anymore and writh over it.

The one big caveat in my head right now is that bb tends to do shit like this when he's under pressure as town. He's probably learned to fake it as scum by now, though.

[implosion]

I really hope i have the motivation to actually do something in this game at some point in the near future.

[implosion]

concision, i never really was very busy; it's more an "i lost all my motivation when we still didn't have any useful info to go off of on day five" thing. Except really, without the quotes.

dont see anything in the last page that makes molla not scum???

This is, honestly, how i feel; meta-wise, this is very distinctly not how BBmolla acts under pressure. I've seen plenty of towngames where he was under significant pressure (SMBC or whatever it was called, temperamental) and he's never reacted to pressure by posting 20 (i counted) times in a row... or anything similar. This looks more like a flail, and i really don't throw that word around a lot. Granted, those examples weren't in lylo - but two things. First of all, as regfan has pointed out, we probably aren't in lylo. Now of course, BB could be genuinely perceiving this as a possible LYLO - but honestly, if he's actually

thinking

, then all of the arguments that people have given would have come up in his mind. Second, i'm going to go try to find a game that was in lylo now.

Well, there's the scummies where he was lynched as town in lylo. That day starts here, but it might not be the best example because it is the scummies. But he never freaked out. And i can't find any other good examples (though i might be missing some).

In my head, BB is very notable for reacting to pressure by becoming suicidal. He did this earlier in this game, but essentially stopped doing it.

Later today, i will try my damndest to look more closely at darox, kanye, and probably mattp. The only townreads I have that I'm confident enough to stake the game on are llama and vijay (although by "confident enough to stake the game" i really mean that i just cannot see as mafia at all). I

can

see kuribo as mafia; but i don't. I can also see the concision slot as mafia, but i don't. I include mattp in that list largely, like i think i said, because i think the behaviors that are being perceived as towntells might just be personality tells. If I had the motivation to meta him more extensively i would, but i don't, so alas, i'd recommend someone else do that (specifically compare his play here to some scumgame where he survived).

[rant]

I feel like this game isn't even just five days with no information - it's five days with no information where every single person is so fucking convinced of their opinions that it would take a fucking bulldozer to move them from where they are, and really, you can't blame me for losing a lot of motivation. Take yesterday with llamarble, for instance - there was a group of people who called him obvtown and refused to budge; there was also a group of people who called him obvscum and refused to budge. When this happens, surprise surprise,

we don't get anywhere.

That's why regfan replacing in gave me

some

hope, but eh, one slot who i feel is capable of reconsidering opinions is not exactly an ideal situation. Actually, it's really more like half a slot. Actually in a way it makes the problem worse, because they have contradicting opinions...

Honestly, i find it mildly surprising that i haven't gotten a very large amount of suspicion. I feel like i've barely done anything in this game and i feel like the majority of people are ignoring me. Honestly, i would probably have a scumread on myself if i were someone else right now. But alas.

[/rant]

[implosion]

Spoiler: rant

BBmolla is town and is scum's last mislynch to win, the wagon on him is scummy as fuck where as the implosion wagon looks a lot better. Implosion is scum, let's speed this up.

...last mislynch to win.
right, right.
Did you read any of concision's posts from the last few pages?

Honestly, I don't know why ANYONE is confident in this game. We've lynched wrong four times in a row...

Actually. Let's look at this.



Elmo TeH AzN: spyrex, kuribo, Darox, Fate, Llamarble, kanyeknowsbest, implosion, bbmolla,
VoidedMafia - vijay2vasandani, KanyeKnowsBest, Fate, BBMolla, Darox,Kuribo, SpyreX,
Fate - MattP, SpyreX, Llamarble, CES, Implosion, BBMolla-
SpyreX - Implosion, CES, Llamarble, BBMolla, MattP, V2V

The following people, if they are town, need to stop pretending that they know what they're doing in this game:
-BB, who has been on 4/4 lynches
-Llamarble, who has been on 3/4 lynches
-MattP, who has been on the last two consecutive lynches
-CES, who has been on the last two consecutive lynches [although this doesn't apply to the regfan half]

I'll give kuribo a break here from this since he hasn't been on any since d3. Plus, the way he's playing right now makes me think he ISN'T being a conceited snob about his fosses compared to the rest of the game.

And dear god, guys, you look conceited about your fosses in comparison to KURIBO.

Note that i'm not saying that any of these people are scum for their voting patterns (except i might actually say that about BB). All i'm saying is that posts like these:

BBmolla is town and is scum's last mislynch to win, the wagon on him is scummy as fuck where as the implosion wagon looks a lot better. Implosion is scum, let's speed this up.

Darox is so fucking scummy, why can't we start with his lynch again??

^ What a terrible vote.

VOTE: Implosion

Regfan your reads are shit, Vijay is fucking scum.

Need to lose a hell of a lot of conviction. Yes, you can have opinions. Those opinions ought to have almost no conviction after your track records in this game.

Yes, i was on 3 of the mislynches. Funny story, i have almost no conviction in my reads.

So let's look at BBmolla for a second. He was on

all four lynches

so far. And yet he still manages to post with as much conviction as I quoted above. Either he's scum or he needs to calm the hell down. Then, when pressure emerges on him, his response is to post 20 times in a row. The thing about those 20 posts is that they simultaneously:
-act suicidal over the game
-act in self-preservation by questioning regfan
-essentially yell/complain at everyone in the game for misreading him.

As much as i look at all of that, I still can't bring myself to go LOLBB IS SCUM WHY ARE ALL OF YOU VOTING OTHER PEOPLE because he has, in a few ways, been playing distinctly to his town meta. Yes, he's probably self-aware. Still, etc.

Frankly, i'm glad that i have some pressure. It

is

a good motivator.

I think i'm willing to vote darox or BB. Not really willing to vote anyone else. When i re-read darox, I can't see as much towniness as i did on day one. And the fact that he's been on all four missions without what I see as really any significant towntells is also disconcerting. Kuribo's probably going to go "lol, shoephone" but i really don't see how the shoephone clears darox, because it's very possible that the situation is something like the scum being told "every two successful missions, one fewer person has to be on the mission." If that were the case, i can very distinctly see scum on the missions not sabotaging the first 3, and then sabotaging everything they can after that to prevent the town from getting early info but prevent them from getting extra mislynches later on. If that's the case, scum would sabotage anyway, regardless of shoephone/etc.

Frankly, considering that random people seem to have been getting items, and that I've got items when i haven't been on any missions, I'd suspect that this may very well be the only advantage we gain from successful missions. The altered scum win condition of "you win when there are less than X townies" in a nightless game essentially takes one simple thing away from a normal nightless game: in a normal nightless game, when the town lynches correctly, they gain an extra mislynch. The mechanic takes that away. Missions are probably a way for scum to balance giving the town extra info, or giving the town extra mislynches.

[implosion]

~sigh~

VOTE: Darox

Trust: vijay

He should really be on the mission. Since he's town. Like i said, he and llamarble are the only townreads i'm strongly confident in so.

[implosion]

hey implosion, for a guy who claims i'm not the only one with his head up his ass, you sure are voting my town read

See, the difference is that i'm not screaming LOL YOU'RE WRONG DIE IN A FIRE SCUM at 4 other players in the game.

"I don't have conviction in my reads" does not mean "i will sheep kuribo."

And you do have your head up your ass to an extent; the difference is, you haven't had as bad a voting record and it's

normal

for you to have your head up your ass.

whoa hold the fuck up
you're ready to vote Molla

but you're no where to be found when we were stringing molla?

I was voting molla up until i just changed to darox?
Also, why are you calling my vote a park on darox? I've been voting him for all of two hours and 43 minutes.

and the shoephone clears Darox because DAROX FUCKING KNEW THAT I'D BE TRACKING SOMEONE LAST NIGHT


AND SCUM STILL SABOTAGED ANYWAY


BUT HE HAD NO IDEA WHO I'D BE TRACKING

I very specifically explained why this is meaningless in my wallpost that you apparently didn't read ^_^

[implosion]

So how do you console "Scum are told the exact mechanics of how mission success/fails work" with my shock over the mission shrinking D3?

Gasp, you were shocked that the mission decreased?

Gasp, if scum know something that the town don't, they might act surprised when something happens based on that information?

Are you really implying that if you were scum, and knew that the mission size was going to decrease, you'd act like you KNEW it was going to decrease?

[implosion]

Or I could have just not given a reaction, which is the safe route.

You know, like half the other people playing.

You could.

And the ontological reason why you would do this instead of giving a reaction as scum is _________.

I mean, yeah, sure, you could have gone the safe route.

"I could have done X" is not an answer to the question "why wouldn't you do Y as scum." That's like answering the question "why wouldn't you vote for kuribo as scum" by saying "well, i could also vote for spyrex." Giving an alternative in no way implies that you would have done that alternative as scum.

[implosion]

if you're going to say "because it's the safe route" then lol, i'd like to see you prove that you never take any risks as scum

[implosion]

I'll be V/LA for a little over a week starting tomorrow (going on vacation). I will, most likely, still be able to post with decent frequency.

Concision, in light of you giving weight to the fact that BB won a nightless as scum, what do you think of this (large game, matt won as the last scum but it was later overturned to a town win due to a night action mixup, granted i haven't really looked at anything other than the last day or two of the game but etcetera), and i also seem to remember some other game where he won as the last scum and people were surprised that he was scum but can't find it. But regardless, i see that game and i see one other game where he was scum and replaced out early (his slot survived to lylo).

But you get the point.

[implosion]

Matt, my point would be pretty clear if you had read the part of the post where i made the point ^_^

It isn't a point that you're necessarily scum, i just want to see what regfan has to say about this.

And kuribo, it would appear you're right about me as well.

[implosion]

Because more people have voted darox than have voted me.

[implosion]

As much as I like errors in my favor listing Matt as voting darox twice when he's voting me is a bit awk. I'm on my phone and won't have comp access til deadline but I really have nothing to say so

I got a software detector last night but apparently won't be using it.

A night or two ago I also used black ice on I think vijay but no one was voteless so.

[implosion]

I used it on vijay

I've made my reads pretty clear

I'm not going to be changing them in the next two hours and I wouldn't be phone posting about it anyway so.

[implosion]

Hmmm are you voting?

Also, I'm thinking Concision, kanye and Darox

:s