Mini 1336 - Revolution Mafia Game Over!

[Concision]

Got it at the start of D1, apparently.

[Concision]

Hey everyone, will be catching and reading up on this game tonight, if there's anything in particular you want me to read into specifically then let me know now.

Grey, can you please amend the OP with SpyreX's lynch.

[Concision]

Why'd you hydrify at this point in the game?

To deal with my upcoming V/LA.

[Concision]

Why'd you hydrify at this point in the game?

He wanted me to teach him how to scumhunt since he sucks donkey balls at it, see; white flag and well really any other game of his

.

I've finished reading through the game and going to spend tonight processesing everything in the meantime here's where my heads currently at. Also CES tried to convince me not to post my catch-up-thoughts and just sheep him on Kanye since he thinks he's always right, lolnoob.

I do agree with CES's Kuribo, Llama and MattP town-reads and would bank the game on them being town at the moment. Would consider throwing Vjay in the 'bet-the-game-on' pile too because while I think his "townslip" on D1 via him claiming to not remember there was a sample PM on the OP is fakable from him as scum I think his reaction towards Implosion claiming to be compromised with him claiming that he needs to check with mod/claiming to have information on existance of factional abilities in Post 488/Post 489 isn't something he'd do as scum at all. Other than them four though all the rest of my reads are fairly weak.

I'm not seeing the Kanye!Scum read as much as he is at all, think he's just tunneling due to Kanyes uselessness, he played super similar in Sedillia and I was insistent he was scum in that game, pushed on him non-stop he was town and the HIMYM(?) scum game of Kanyes that I randomly spectated a few months ago had him playing completely differently to this, I'll see if I can find it and re-read it tomorrow. Also Kanyes reaction to being run up D2 comes across as slightly townish too though I need to re-read that a few more times when I have fresh eyes tomorrow morning; if there's more to the scum-reads on him other than 'useless' can someone elaborate on it because I have a feeling I might get one word answers or 'because I said so' type responses from CES. (And yep, I was right his only response is pretty much 'he tried to get us mslynched/no way the whole push on llama is from town only').

I have a slight townish read on Implosions, really liked his D1, his attitude and posts then were almost the polar opposite of his play in Behind the Maiden where he was scum and his conversation or attempt to initiate conversation with SpyreX over ability usage coming across as genuine. Don't like how much he has faded into the background since then though but I think a great deal of his decrease in content has to do with lack of motivation and time to focus on this game with.

Similarly I liked a decent chunk of Darox's D1 particularly his questioning of why he gets to be town and his analysis though I'm really not seeing peoples continued town reads on him, since then he's really just coasted through the game with his only sort of content being his defense of Fate which reads as buddying to a degree. Also think that he changed his playstyle from taking the game somewhat seriously to not doing so in an attempt to appease peoples 'prior meta beliefs' of him.

I really don't know why there isn't any/more votes on BBMolla at all, his play here doesn't come across as him genuinely scumhunting at all, it's rather just him being around and his turn from "I had a secret scum read on CES" when people started voting us was super opportunistic and him changing that around towards us being "obvtown" reads as buddying towards CES as does his Kanye vote.

Throwing my strong reads into this;

N1; Mission: BBmolla, Darox,

Kuribo, Llamarble, MattP, SpyreX: Success.

N2; Mission is: BBmolla, Darox,

kuribo, Llamarble, MattP, SpyreX; Success(?)

N3; Mission is; Mission is: BBmolla, Darox,

Kuribo, MattP vijay2vasandani; Success

N4; Mission is: BBmolla, Darox,

Llamarble, MattP, V2V;

Failure.

Meaning the sabotager was likely in the pool every day from N1-> N4 and the fact that only 1 sabotage occurred points towards scum not wanting people to be looking inside the pool which is far more likely if there's 2 scum in there; if there's just 1 scum in there then the risk in sabotaging would be minimal given that there's only a 1/6 chance of them being lynched due to it but with 2/6 the odds are significantly higher meaning BB + Darox scum-team makes a lot of sense.

Overall right now I'm leaning towards:

Town (S->W):

Llama, Kuribo, Matt, Vjay (Large gap), Implosion, Kanye.

Scum (S->W):

BBMolla, Darox.

Going to see if I can convince CES to move.

[Concision]

what do you think about the possibility i proposed in 1760 regfan?

I thought we'd be alerted if someone was *replaced* out of the mission with someone else. With that said I really don't find a 'secret sabotage' item or ability to be all that likely though if that's what you're suggesting because it would nearly defeat the entire way we can attain reads from powers ie. working out who's going on missions that have failed and if it were possible then why wouldn't scum have sabotaged previous missions with it?

If the scum didn't want people to look at the pool why would they sabotage at all 4 days in? That really makes no sense at all. That is antilogic. All my money is on MattP being compromised, with an outside bet on Kanye with his ability [Or anyone else who got the same ability, I guess]

The 'why would scum sabotage at all' angle is meaningless; scum likely sabotaged out of fear of something like mission numbers needed decreasing again and thought they'd have a decent chance of dodging the lynch from it still or at least still pulling out a win. Can you explain to me why you find some sort of secret compromise more likely than BB-Molla being scum and while you're at it explain your town read on him to me without saying something useless like 'cool dude' 'better than the rest'.

Heading to bed, will try and mull over this game on my run tomorrow.

[Concision]

Night 1 - Alias Assumption - If someone gets sent on the mission and I don't, I could take their place. Useless obviously.

[Concision]

I assume the scum sabotaged out of fear of the mission size being reduced again. I can't help but think this would be a silly game if scum don't have significant motivation like possible mission size reductions to actually sabotage missions.

GreyICE still not acknowledging that I switched my trust token that one time is amusing.

P-edit: we're still lynching kanyescum, implosion.

[Concision]

Eh super annoyed that CES is now gone and not sure how long he's gone for but he kind of left the impression that he won't be back during this dayphase at all and insisted that I make sure Kanye is lynched by his return. I mean I can kind of understand his point of "Llama-wagon/FoS'es wouldn't have got so much heat without there being at least one scum on it, it being Kanye" but it's not that strong a point and the rest of his reasoning behind his scum read when he explained it to me really comes across as if he's over-strengthening a gutish based read. I think I might just have to trust him on the read though especially given that this is his game.

Llama, can you help re-explain the Kanye!scum read for me, think there's a good chance you might be able to put it better than CES. Also let me know what you're thinking of Molla/Darox; CES had them as null/nulltown and I'm fairly sure both are scum here.

Regfan stop misreading me dood.

Think I've only misread you in Seacores game and sortofish in Scummies. Otherwise I think I'm fairly good at reading you, remember you mentioning so at some point.

[Concision]

Kanye is too aware of the gamestate (knew scum didn't have nightkill, thinks sabotage caused by role shenanigans) for somebody who has held EPICALLY stupid opinions like CES + me scumteam.

Kind of see what you're saying. I'll be doing a few re-reads of him later tonight when the crickets on. Still want to hear your read on Molla/Darox though.

[Concision]

Darox, explain your town-read on BBMolla for me. Also if you mind linking a scum game or two of yours that'd be awesome.

[Concision]

Sorry, got caught up with friends 21sts all weekend, will be able to get to this game tomorrow.

[Concision]

One day I'll get through a hydra game without misposting on the wrong account. But for now, this is my post:

Just finished settling in from a move so should be superactive from hereon in. Molla wagon picking up heat is awesome

and what CES doesn't know about won't hurt CES, except for when he comes back and beats me up for not having Kanye lynched

and I re-read Kanye about 3-4 times and can't shake the feeling that his play here is just like in Sedillia where he was uselesstown plus lynching in Molla->Darox->Kanye/Implosion order should be gamewin.

Matt, I'm pretty sure you're flat out wrong about Vjay, ignore his uselessness and ignore his shitposts and look purely at his reaction towards Implosion on D2 with the 'checking with the mod', that's something that I really really really do not think he'd fake at all. Especially not with that level of genuineness and right now this games in a state where as long as we don't lynch obvtown we should win it so the faster you realize he's town the better it is.

Darox, I'll do the meta reading of those games you linked later tonight, and yes, you stated a town-read on BB in Post 1402 where he was a peg lower than everyone else. So what your town-read based around then and why are you so happy to drop it in place of voting him now? Comes across highly as late distancing/bussing.

Also Llama, CES might be difficult to read as obvtown but I'm not at all, so focus merely on reading me and it should be super-easy.

Unvote, Vote: BBMolla

That's the hammer for the 48 hour period I believe. No reason to accelerate it at the moment though want to finish the metareading first.

[Concision]

Nowhere near confident in this anymore. Blah. Need to go re-go over everything one more time.

Unvote

BB, there's a bunch of stuff I want you to explain for me. The first being your scum-read on Vjay and how you think his 'checking with the mod' comes from mafia, not just that but how it comes from mafia partners with implosion because I really really think he's town from it to the point where I'm willing to let him win if he's scum. The second being your change from Daroxtown to Daroxscum and the last being what exactly you think from this game reassembles your town meta more than your scum-meta because other than the last page or two everything you've done somewhat reminds me of Seacores game.

[Concision]

Also reallly reallly doubt this is lylo, 4 scum would be incredibly scum sided and given GI's complaints on balance on other mods he wouldn't scumside his own setup.

[Concision]

10:3 vanilla nightless is considered 'balanced' though it's slightly scum sided 55-60%. So 9;4 would be somewhere in the 70%isharea of scum sideness and I don't think there's enough power to balance that here. Not even close to enough especially if I'm understanding their win condition.

If Vjay is just PoE then why are you so insistent on your read on him. Look at his mod directed comments and tell me if you think that's potentially from scum. Also still want to know what you think from this game resembles your town meta rather than scum meta. And I don't really have a scum-read on Kanye, though PoE does point him to be possible and likely scum, I'm just worried that he's really shitty town like he was in Sedilla where I death tunneled him on. CES is certain he' scum though.

[Concision]

Also; Implosion, I know that you're not 'super busy' anymore since I just checked and you're playing 5+ EM games a day so get in here and post.

[Concision]

"I'm not scum because I'm not lynched yet" is shit reasoning. Like really shit. You have to give me something better than that. About vjay, read Post 488 and Post 489 and the surrounding posts. And uh. Think there's a 'balance calculator' in the wiki. I'l find it tonight and put things into that. Still fairly sure this isn't 4 scum though.

[Concision]

P(Town win) = 1 - 2S/N = (N-2S)/N

8-4 Nightless (What you're saying Ythans game is) = P = (12-2(4))/12 = 12-8 = 4/12 = 33% Town Win. So that wasn't balanced at all.

9-4 Nightless = P = (13 - 2(4))/13 = 13-8 = 5/13 = 38% Town Win.
10-3 Nightless = P = (13-2(3))/13 = 13-6 = 7/13 = 53% Town Win.

10-3 is exceedingly more likely than 9-4 due to that.

[Concision]

Will get to this game later today or by latest tonight.

Kuribo, fairly sure your town read on Darox is wrong and stupid but an Implosion-wagon isn't terrible. Still need to re-go-over BB a lot because he dodged answering a few questions but I think I remember him reacting similarly as town in a westeroes game where he was David(?). Will see if the game is find-able.

[Concision]

I found the Westeroes game I was talking about, it's here though it seems the alted accounts that people posted on have been replaced/renamed so hunting down who BB's character (Found out it was Daryl) is now and then hunting down his posts and reaction is something I'm too lazy to do at the moment. If someone else wants to do it I'd greatly appreciate it though but I think CES has a little more meta on BB than me so hopefully I can catch him at some point during his vacation (He stated he might be able to pop on here and there in our QT the other day and had a few other thoughts though not many I agree that strongly with). Going over and over it though I think Bbs stream of conciousness posting style with the sheer speed from one post to another reads as genuine and is something I can understand him doing as town; freaking out about being mslynched but at the same time his "If I was scum i'd be lynched by now" attempt at defending himself is incredibly shit. Like incredibly incredibly shit, especially considering he won a previous nightless as final scum alive. Bleh think I need to read that game of his but at this point want to talk to CES about him, if I don't get a chance to discuss this with CES though then Darox/Kanye/Implosion lynches > BBMolla for now.

Also, look. We need to clear some shit up completely because not doing so is going to lead towards confusion and chaos later. The first and utmost being peoples dumb scum-reads on Vjay and/or Matt. Sure Vjays play is incredibly shit content wise and his lack of following the game to realize that I replaced into the Consicion hydra which was mentioned a lot of times is bad it's not scum-motivated whatsoever. Nor is his play throughout D2, none if makes sense with him as scum. If there's something I'm missing, bring it up, let me know so we can talk it out, otherwise the constant addition of Vjay in the 'scumpiles' is dumb.

[Concision]

I'll get to this game in the morning, exhausted at the moment.

[Concision]

Sorry about the delay, been super busy lately and haven't really had a chance to force myself into this game, was kind of hoping CES can come compeltely back and we can have a discussion but meh, he's just left little notes. Implosion, I don't consider BB to be 'terrible scum' and while there might be some games of him not playing as it well I think overall his "As scum I'd have been lynched by now' attitude is massively exaggerated.

Kuribo. Lets do this nice and slowly, other than "Omg he knew I had a track thus he wouldn't corrupt" what makes you think Kuribo is town?

Vjay, CES is insistent on asking you to justify and explain your votes on us, so if you could do that it'd be super appreciative.

Also Implosion lynch isn't bad but Darox is better.

Vote: Darox

[Concision]

hey concision you scum fuck
remember when you asked who said I was town?
YOU FUCKING DID AND YOUR TRUST TOKEN STILL RESTS ON ME
Concision is obviously trying to derail implosions wagon to darox at deadline, and his bullshit reasoning only follows if he calls me scum

I'm pretty damn positive you're town. I also think you're an idiot and I've been asking and asking and asking and asking for your reasoning behind Darox town to be elaborated on in more detail because tracker thing isn't selling me at all but this game has hit a stand still. So I'll make you a deal. I'll move over to Implosion but if Darox is scum then this game is on your fucking head because this "SPAM CAPS NOT TALK LOGIC" shit is really stupid.

Unvote, Vote: Implosion

[Concision]

Virus Alert Warning

Concision

is accessing the site from an unauthorized device. Unauthorized devices may not use

Voting

or

Trust

software.

Which fucker did this? 'Fess up.

Vote: Kanye

[Concision]

Llamarble, come on, how can you not see Kanyeobvscum?

[Concision]

Will focus my attention on this game tomorrow, fairly exhausted today and will be spending time elsewhere instead.

Sabotage means one of [Kuribo/Llama/Matt/Vjay] is scum. Kuribo/Llama town for sure. CES thinks I'm wrong about Vjay and he's the scum between Matt/Vjay and I kind of agree, my Matt town read is a lot stronger.

[Concision]

Weren't you doing the sheeping kuribo thing? We are not letting Kanye survive another Day.

[Concision]

...

Yes, clearly we should be lynching molla instead of kanye because the mislynches molla has helped push have actually gone through; what a great reason.

And 'marble, is there even a power known that doesn't have an observable effect beyond the Software that I'm supposed to have used on kuribo?

[Concision]

molla/darox/and vijay or llama

kk cool

Yeah, no. Kanye can doubleplusfake #2037.

[Concision]

So we should be lynching vijay or concision today

We should be lynching kanye or vijay.

Matt, just ask Kanye if he can fake this frustratedtown tone. He probably won't deny it.

[Concision]

Knowing that 1 out of {Concision, vijay} has to be scum isn't particularly meaningful for anyone but me when we also know that 3 out of {Concision, vijay, kanyeknowsbest, BBmolla, Darox} have to be scum (and I'm being disenfranchised anyway).

[Concision]

1) I'm quite willing to stake the game on Kanye being scum (and if vijay gets lynched, I'll be pushing Kanye tomorrow anyway).
2) The case against Kanye really is much better (which is mostly because Vijay is a terrible player that barely plays the game but them's the breaks).

[Concision]

(And Kanye should be lynched.)

[Concision]

Why would I need to stick to my lynch target? I don't even have a vote.

P-edit: pretty sure the percentage play is lynching scum? This is what, Day 6? There's more than enough info out there to conclude categorically that Kanye is scum.

[Concision]

There is actual undeniable proof for you though that vijay is scum

1) I'm quite willing to stake the game on Kanye being scum (and if vijay gets lynched, I'll be pushing Kanye tomorrow anyway).
2) The case against Kanye really is much better (which is mostly because Vijay is a terrible player that barely plays the game but them's the breaks).

(We've been over this.)

[Concision]

Also vijay had that townslip day one

Vijay, as it turns out, is smart enough to fake stuff like that, as I know from experience. He disguises it by not actually playing the game besides that.

[Concision]

Explain to me the scum motivation for pushing Kanye over vijay. Pushing vijay is the obvious move that draws no attention.

[Concision]

...no.

I like 180ing as scum and I consider consistency a scum tell. And if you think it's nonsensical, feel free to explain why my logic for pushing Kanye is incorrect.

[Concision]

Right and while I find that very convincing, I think others might take issue with some of the assumptions that that piece of logic relies on.

(I use case in a more objective sense? Cases are about convincing others so that they see what you see.)

[Concision]

I don't follow.

[Concision]

But it's funny, after you said this, Concision didn't say jack shit about it, despite earlier demanding to know who had done it.

From his point of view, you should be scum.

Further, what the fuck were you doing to me that night, Concision?

???

I did respond to it and there's no reason Llamarble using BlackICE on you would make him scum (it's a very reasonable action). It's also not why I lost my vote. As Darox pointed out, GreyICE didn't say anything about missions, so there, your silly BlackICE theory is invalid.

[Concision]

Anyway, just to get thing straight:
MattP is voting me for not doing [thing that is an obvious move] without having any idea as to idea why I should actually be doing that thing or why I would choose to not do thing as scum.
Kuribo is voting me for stuff that isn't true.
Llamarble is voting me because he doesn't feel up to playing the game and is hiding behind generalities.
And vijay still hasn't given a reason for why I'm supposed to be scum.

[Concision]

Do you really think that the Llamarble push was all town, kuribo? That not a single scumbag felt it was worthwhile to lift a finger to get Llamarble out of the game instead of letting him establish himself as obvtown? Because that's what you're saying by not lynching Kanye.

(It doesn't hurt that he didn't exactly hide that that was what he was doing all that much either.)

[Concision]

Dare to dream, 'marble.

[Concision]

*shrug*

No one's listening to me or even cares that vijay is not even bothering to push me.