Mini 1,384: Dirty Dealing (Game over!)

[Soul2277]

Yeah oversoul isn't a player anymore. We'll sign posts if they're just short comments to add to things. If we make longer posts such as full reads they'll be discussed then posted without anyone signing them.

And parama is their a point in trying to get everyone to specifically say whether or not they have a PR?

~Mehdi2277

[Soul2277]

Then is there a reason to say you don't have a PR? Or even is there a reason to think a PR exists?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

I hope to learn your answer naturally. Understanding why you said something is enough of a reason.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

MoI why are you town?

Same can be asked to you and Moi. Why are you two town? And how does either of the questions help?

Also curious on how everyone's ignored sala except parama.

P-edit: AP same questions to you. And 2nd question still applies to MoI.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Parama, I don't do drugs, but what wonderful crack are you smoking and where can I get some?

Magna I also hope you will be sharing any spreadsheets you are creating so that those card abilities can be tracked.

I am not going to let your ass do what you did in Words with Scum.

[Soul2277]

That was Oversoil by the way ^

[Soul2277]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Follower

I think that answers your follower question.

You already answered the first question, but what about the second (and since the vote why do you dislike them)?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

FIRST POST

OKAY SO THIS IS A BASTARD GAME RIGHT?
WWEEEELLL THAT MEANS WE LYNCH THE GOOD PEOPLE!
I'M TOTALLY MAFIA SO YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO ME AND LYNCH OVERSOUL, HE'S SUCH A GREAT GUY

vote: oversoul

ps MoI and GreyICE are fellow bastards like me

Note: I have no post-restriction

vote: WHATEVER THE HELL OVERSOUL'S HYDRA IS

because the person he's hydraing with, bastard or not, cannot outweigh the symbol of goodness that is oversoul.


fun fact I don't know who 50% of the playerlist is

Do you actually mean this? <3

And I seem to be getting in Mehdi's way so I am goin to let him use the account.

Mehdi, I'll be in the google doc soon. Eating dinner. Sorry for interrupting your posts.

[Soul2277]

Unless its just my wifi being gay and continuing to log me off.

[Soul2277]

I'm town because my role PM says so.

AP, is that a serious vote?

Is reading that hard? There was two questions to you not one, so it follows I want answers to both.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Well I always sign my posts. 27/28 are OS. Although post 27 isn't a wall and even if it was not sure what's strange in it.

"what about the second (and since the vote why do you dislike them)?" still applies to you AP.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

The question is how does asking grey is he town help you. Along with I'm assuming your vote is because you dislike the questions so I'm asking what's wrong with them (and if it's something else then what is it).

P-edit: That covers the first part so the second is left.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Piggy was supposed to hydra with OS. She couldn't because roles had already been randomized. Most recent game of her's is micro 27 that ended today.

I don't think Richard is Parama's actual alt.

And drmy I see 0 reason to name claim. All it does is makes counting cards possible and could make it easier for scum to know who might have pairs or more.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

You just got through with two games with sala drmy. One where he started the game off with a gambit as scum and the other where he was loud. And I know at least you should be able to understand sala's play well. You were like one of the few who fosed his miller thing a lot and now you'd think he'd fake something like it again with you online?

I will ask is the PR real?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

More how would that help you determine alignment? Answer specifically please.

I wanted to see if you were showing some thought towards the game vs pure joke post. Thought/logic in general especially early on is something I think is a bit town.

Anyways I don't really want to give multiple reads until I have time to talk with OS.

~Mehdi

Mod: Could you delete 98? Kind of slipped with accounts.

[Soul2277]

Is there a limit to how long your *actions* can be? Can they be longer then one line for one action?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

And figuring out post-restrictions is a bad thing?

It looked pointless before PRs actually started to appear.

And the last two quotes are from oversoul (I always sign mine).

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

dafuq are you talking to?

I was talking to AP. Look a bit back when he asked what a follower is.

"This feels like an argument from Words With Scum, only I don't want to ass myself with finding it there."

Can you expand on how the argument went?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

STOP FUCKING POSTING LIKE THIS

I WILL NOT HAVE A FUCKING DISNEY VILLIANS MAFIA WHERE YOU ALL POST AS MUCH AS RABBITS HAVE SEX

[Soul2277]

^ Oversoul by the way

~ OS

[Soul2277]

Disagree. MoI hates bussing. The hammer is awful though.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Be specific, Mehdisoul. (or just Oversoul; wait, you weren't in WWS, were you?)

Nope. I read his comments during endgames for most of his games and casually read his iso.

MoI is a personal case study I like to follow game to game.

~ OS

[Soul2277]

Meta is not evil. Anyways in words with scum MoI played with 0 bussing. He hates doing it and yet grey was saying there's a good chance he would.

Nextly, me and OS haven't discussed all reads in depth. Short version is we agree with parama's scum reads (voided, moi, and AP mainly) and think PM, grey, and parama are town. PM's actually showing thought here so stop all this policy lynch stuff.

Lastly, shahrizai me and OS haven't voted because we wanted to discuss our reads in detail before doing so. We didn't have time to do that with the day being that quick.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

So voided mafia is probably town.

112 does not make me regret my vote.

We aren't PLing Pmyst.

Why do you say that? His posts have been a bunch of filler.

~ OS

[Soul2277]

...And again, another fine example of PM's complete inability to actually read.

What exactly was wrong with PM's post there?

~ OS

[Soul2277]

Parama, even if you don't "explicitly" think that MoI is scum, we do actually.

We thought you said you did.

pedit:

Voided, reread his post again. There is definitely some insight and inquisitive motive. I'm not giving you the answers.

~ OS

[Soul2277]

By the by, Magna might be scum. This is about 1000% more likely if Shotgun flips scum.

I know I can read him well but even I have trouble with a naked hammer post. But as scum he'd almost certainly do that, day 1, on his buddy. Both of us bus a lot.

I definitely know this is true for you, but MoI has said in posts and QTs that he does not like to bus and thinks it is generally not the best option.

~ OS

[Soul2277]

Voided I'll just add do you really believe this to be the same posting he does usually? I've seen games pm has played in. His current play looks fine (it's even better then some of the other people here). Either you're in confirmation bias to always see him as useless or just weakly discrediting him.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Soul2277 doesn't ever vote. He just talks about things and asks questions.

And what exactly is wrong this?

~ OS

[Soul2277]

Drmy: Grey, Sala, AP, Parama, MoI

I'm curious where this hammer is. He's at L-2. The bigger question is whether MoI thought that was a hammer or not.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

What? 171? It's full of shit.

168 IS a good post. I even said so. 171 is not. Or am I supposed to take his talk about how Sha "could put up a good fight" as words worth something?

P-EDIT: Okay, yes, he's admittedly doing far better in this game than in any I've seen him in, but it's nothing to write about so far.

192 IS pretty good, though. He can be off the PL list (for now).

And yes, I'm pretty sure you are, gunny.

@Post 196 I think they expect you do more than that.

No... the post I actually quoted and specifically mentioned you needing to reread.

How about that one... Ya.. That actually might make sense instead of cherrypicking PM's autistic posts.

~ OS

[Soul2277]

That is still just 6 votes. Drmy isn't hammered. And don't hammer him right now.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

...And again, another fine example of PM's complete inability to actually read.

What exactly was wrong with PM's post there?

~ OS

This post, Voided.

~ OS

[Soul2277]

If there's Vig, plz shoot PMysterious.
Also, read Salamance's iso too.

Voided is actually a much better shot.

I can understand PM this game unlike some of the others I have read. He has townie intent.

[Soul2277]

^ OS

~ OS

You've got to be kidding me Voided.

Let the record state that this is a confession of being scum by Voided.

Bastard moniker does not excuse bad play.

Ever.

Why would his worry about ending day be illiterate? Votecount hadn't been posted with updated vote placement and that is legitimate fear. The first part of his post is completely legible and easy to discern what he was talking about.

~ OS

interesting that you got ace of spades when it was listed as a card in the vt post

Mehdi and I figured you were VT from your bastard setup spec about if the game was even really bastard beyond the name.

Please vig kill Voided.

[Soul2277]

If there is a vig please shoot Voided. This is not a policy lynch. This is not a gambit or anything stupid.

This is about his play this game.

Please shoot Voided.

Dr, any other reads other than suspecting Sala before you are gone?

~ OS

pedit: Voided, I think it is supposed to be a joke given his name. Either way, KJ and NS are useless players so far (NS is usually useless forever) so they can go too.

[Soul2277]

Oh yeah, I thought the game was not

that

much of bastard and said so because I got a VT role. Rules said that there might not even be a VT role, but I did have one.
Didn't see anything special in my role PM, so yeah. Lol.

Watch you flip as some sort of super useful PR.

*sigh*

Voided, we explicitly asked you to not hammer. What is your problem.

pedit:
Eh, look at PM's earlier posts, they have town motivation. Look at the one he posts about MoI. He says I really don't have any suspicions or reason to call people anything. Then MoI "hammers" in pedit and he was like "oh wait this might actually be scummy".

~ OS

[Soul2277]

I see like all of you at the bottom viewing this forum. What happened to the 5 pages in 30 minutes we had earlier? Why are you all so quiet?

For the town record it is AgnryPidgeon, DrMyshotgun, Killerjester, Soul2277, and VoidedMafia.

Why, Killer?

~ OS

[Soul2277]

P-EDIT: So I'm town put you want me vigged?

Only fucking scum act this willfully ignorant.

"For the town record" does not translate in any language "town for the record are".

It means for town, I am recording who is present, but not doing anything at the time of my post.

~ OS

[Soul2277]

Does not match.

Angry doesn't refer to this.
Angry and Grey seems to be sort of connected. See also: Grey's post #176

Awww, mad scum.

Oversoul when he flips scum can I tease you about it?

Yes.

When he doesn't can I tease you about it?

~ OS

[Soul2277]

We think Grey is slightly town.

AP, any chance on answering my question I asked earlier in the game?

Control F your name or "why"

I have an opinion on Shirai, but I haven't shared it with Mehdi yet and it is dependent on Dr flipping town.

~ OS

[Soul2277]

Hm.. Killer might not be so useless after all.

[Soul2277]

Is there anyone on the wagon itself you think is scum? The only player we suspect are AP and voided, with voided being our main scum read.

As for actual reasons, a lot of what he's posted is parroting, filler, or just discrediting. How many of his own opinions has he given that aren't just pushing PM as policy? Try counting that. And when called on PM not playing badly here he backs down to it probably just hoping to get an easy mislynch on him. His vote on you is weak. He wanted to hammer, hammed, and because of what exactly? His main scum reads was just copy another person's scum reads.

OS has already mentioned his hammer when we specifically asked to not end the day that quickly.

And for grey, drmy doesn't act town after lynched usually (more meta, but oh well). When he was fake hammered as town and thought it was a hammer he started talking about how town he was and complaining about the hammer (open 443). It's also sad no one else picked up the vanilla tells in his this game may not be bastard post.

Lastly, OS check the doc quickly since I just signed back on.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

One thing, how do you not think Parama is town, AP?

~ OS

Ok

[Soul2277]

And sala is slight town lean for posting opinions under that kind of restriction. He could have used it as an excuse to be much more useless, but at least he's making clear his reads.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Drmy is actually town though (please remind me how a lynch with that speed and almost everyone agreeing along with him continuing to post like this is not on town). Just because someone else commits the same scum tell as you doesn't mean it becomes null on you.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Going to bed y'all

I'll let Mehdi have some fun now

~ OS

[Soul2277]

So voided mafia is probably town.

112 does not make me regret my vote.

We aren't PLing Pmyst.

Why do you say that? His posts have been a bunch of filler.

~ OS

[Soul2277]

VM it isn't whether you didn't read carefully enough it is whether you read at all or blatantly ignored it.

There is literally a nonzero chance that you didn't see Mehdi's post saying Dr had 6 votes when in your hammer post you say "

pedit

oh I miscounted hammer"

The posts were two minutes apart and you had quoted something and it likely took you longer than 2 minutes to type that out and post it.

You are just lying at this point.

~ OS

[Soul2277]

Nonzero chance should be zero chance. That's what happens when I try to get snarky late at night.

[Soul2277]

Also, you said confirmation Bias about us, Voided. Yet you've never said we were town. Ever.

You know we are town.

You can die now.

~ OS

[Soul2277]

I don't even remember what that P-EDIT was to anymore. People kept postjacking me.

Maybe I just saw the "Gunny has only 6 votes" and didn't read the rest. Again, one action does not always make terrible play, and unless you can show that I read and understood that post in its entirety and then blatantly ignored it to hammer Gunny, then you'll just have to deal.

P-EDIT:...no i didn't. I was pointing out how Gunny was a prime example of confirmation bias against PM, not you.

WHy don't YOU learn to read for once?

Saying you didn't see that post when there is clear evidence that you did "Oh, Miscount? LOLHAMMER!" is why I am distrustful.

You wanna know something funny Voided? I actually thought you had the chance of being town last night. Want to know why? Well, when you started saying that you were misreading and this was all a mistake I said to myself "this could possibly be true". So I went back and skimmed your iso in Words with Scum. Your iso looks completely different in that game when compared to this game. I thought to myself "Wow! I might actually be wrong. I'll need to discuss this with Mehdi tomorrow. Voided's scumplay in Words with Scum looks nothing like his play here."

Then this morning, while I was taking a crap I was looking to see if any comments had been posted in this game it dawned on me.

You weren't scum in Words with Scum. You were town.

Your playstyle there and your playstyle here are nothing alike.

~ OS

[Soul2277]

MoI, please get your head out of your ass.
~ OS

[Soul2277]

Because I have the feeling you would track it anyway.

[Soul2277]

MoI, please get your head out of your ass.

Well instead of being an insulting child why don't you explain what you think I'm missing.

Of course given you have a 'scum read' on my I doubt you will.

Any reason you didn't respond to my question?

This makes me feel better about you. I thought you would respond to my malice with your own malice.

And I did? It's the "because post".

I don't really agree with your point about Dr being scum for slipping. What makes you think that scum would start off with more cards? That's the mechanic, outside of alignment.

And I will, but I am in class right now. Probably won't be able to get to it until later today unless Mehdi comes in before then.

~ OD

[Soul2277]

Why are we scum, Piggy?

And no comment on our posts against Voided, anyone?

[Soul2277]

Because we know the mechanic and SC lists the one card thing in the first post? I don't "know" for sure but I think that is oversea loud against Dr.

I guess we'll wait to see who is right.

This Dr play reminds me of Micro the Cult by Zoraster.

[Soul2277]

Oversea loud = over zealous

Talk to you all later
~ OS

[Soul2277]

Well that was fast. I think Drmy is a good lynch, but I don't like that Magna just hammered like that before I even got to post.

GreyIce's comment about

Magna bussing makes me think that he might be the one bussing and trying to set up Magna for tomorrow

. But I don't like Magna hammering so maybe I'm just paranoid.

Soul2277 doesn't ever vote. He just talks about things and asks questions.

Shah is town for that considering drmy flipped town.

VOTE: Voided Both sides of the hydra completely agree with this vote and it will be explained more later.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Scum can do it, but that applies to all town tells. We just think it's more likely to come from town to just put a small comment like that over scum.

And Nobody is listed as a living player (which implies he has a role too).

[Soul2277]

And that last post was from Mehdi.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

It's a small passing comment. I don't think it was intended to be looked at closely later even though it implies sha is town. I don't see how she's blatantly sure in that. A short post with one part calling it a likely bus isn't blatantly sure.

P-edit: I just assumed nobody wasn't in the game since all he did was fake mod post. My mistake.

And piggy PoE includes town reads. Who are they then?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Shahrizai is defo-scum if shotgun is. If he flips town, then I don't know.

Forget this?

Next we were discussing MoI bussing there. Read the page where it came from (the post right before that quotes me commenting on MoI is unlikely to bus).

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

So, off the top of my head Soul was town.

Someone talk to me. soul, I just accused you of being buddies with Shah.

Explain how that connects in any way when they're both on the same page.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Except I'd never voted all of that day while being one of the most talkative. I don't see anything that bad about it (plus I know I'm not her buddy so your interpretation is wrong). This far too confident is still dumb when that's not how it reads (it was a short comment not some wall constantly proclaiming it was definitely bussing).

And you're saying me defending someone who we thought was town before is bad enough to have you flip reads on us?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Your asking for no one to disagree reads wise with you when you've proven your last scum read was just off (I think you should have backed off there). Your reads are also dumb if you flip that easily on things since it just makes it easy to excuse all read changes.

[Soul2277]

Mehdi should be with last post.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

It could help if you quoted the line before it where that was referring to just the people on the drmy wagon. Really though I'm not going to stop talking to someone I think might be scum when it's a weak read and was said about 100 posts ago.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Discussing things with people is a horrible idea if you think they're a bit scum. If that's the idea you're really pushing then I just think it's a dumb idea.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

I'm saying the idea of not discussing things with someone you have as null-scum is a dumb idea.

I've repeatedly said shah is likely town.

Lastly vague attacks don't help at all.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

You reading/thinking would also help. Let's see how clear I can be:

I'm listing you as null-scum. You said it was strange for me to discuss with you reads wise if I have you as null-scum. I say that's a dumb idea.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Have you ever been in a hydra? Staying in the right account constantly mistakes happen.

Well you can't infer well is what we've learned at least since no it doesn't imply that (you've never told someone you think is scum that their reads are awful?).

Remembering a few more posts could help as well.

And like repeatedly stated it was a small comment that you're repeatedly exaggerating the meaning of. If you want to stay that way then we agree to disagree their. Saying the point 10 times doesn't make it any less wrong.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

I do love meta very much.

I have taken you seriously (and you just argued with me over I shouldn't be really discussing reads with you if I have you as null-scum). I was just using that to add a bit on why you're likely wrong there.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Why not? (although the number is really inflated)

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

You're still confused then. Since I've repeatedly said I think you should discuss with people you have as null-scum. It's all on this page too.

~Mehdi

P-edit: AP is misdirected at best and scum at worst. Either way votes for shah are bad.

[Soul2277]

You're still repeating arguments a lot.

Well you can't infer well is what we've learned at least since no it doesn't imply that (you've never told someone you think is scum that their reads are awful?).

That point has already been countered.

P-edit: Or it has the earmark of someone who was able to read him right. Maybe someone who's played a couple of games with him and caught the vanilla hint without trouble.

And of course the vote to start. We pushed on voided before the day ended and still think he's most likely to be scum (will be expanded in some time). Did you consider that in your thing.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

If you see him as obvtown you could explain that as well, since we see the opposite.

Point being us voting him at the start of the day on him doesn't make sense as a reason. If the problem is just us fosing him why not say that before day 1 ended?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Nope, but it doesn't make the argument more right (it just makes it more annoying to me).

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Why do you think MoI is likely town sala?

P-edit: Same as before, vague attacks don't help. Answering the thing on why voided is in any way obvtown would also help.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

His argument is pretty much the exact same (well add in that it was a small comment). The counter argument is still the same.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Pidgeon, please comment on Voided and MoI.

Why do you think Shah is scum with one post when KJ explained a very likely explanation for her post?

I'm really interested in MoI's response to Dr flipping town.

GI, told you so~

quoting this for hydra iso

~ OS

I will be making a post soon

[Soul2277]

2. Vote on Voided to start today? Scum-claim if I ever saw one.

Ok this pisses me off. You are so arrogant when you play. How is this at all a scumclaim? And what does us flipping town tell you about Voided? What does us flipping scum tell you about Voided?

You're being short sighted which is unlike you.

[Soul2277]

Theres a difference between MoI's typical arrogance over his play and MoI being shortsighted, Piggy. He usually analyzes everything and takes everything into account when town. He is being dismissive and petty here.

My god I hate the fact that you're sheeping him based on fucking gut and PoE that is completely unreasonable given that there is no information floating around about anyone.

[Soul2277]

But its okay because he's tied himself to Voided which probably means hes scum as well.

[Soul2277]

Also I am going to unload a wall about Voided being scum so speak now or forever hold your truth whether or not you want it spoilered.

[Soul2277]

Also I am going to unload a wall about Voided being scum so speak now or forever hold your truth whether or not you want it spoilered.

I'm
just
going
to
preemptively
say
this,
TL;DR.

I'll make a tl;dr, but there are other important things about possible connections that I think Voided has in there so don't ignore it completely.

[Soul2277]

Piggy do you remember micro 27 at all? And how little I considered your defenses? Does this not feel similar (opposite way though).

You're (and sala) really sheeping a player when we should be easiest to read considering how much we've posted (if you think some is noise, k there's still plenty to read us from yourself so it's not like it's hard to make a read when we've said little)

AP what about all of the other 60 posts we've made? Does that affect your read at all?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Someone talk to me. soul, I just accused you of being buddies with Shah.

That is ridiculous.

Soul2277 (3): MagnaofIllusion, Salamence20, AngryPidgeon

This angers me immensely.

Why does no one agree that Voided is scum? Why does no one even comment on that?

People voting me, what is your opinion of Voided? He is our biggest suspect. Is he our buddy, or is he someone we are trying to drag down to the grave?

Lulz. You are really pretty obvious scum you know that Medhi?

You're a pretty bad scumhunter you know. Are you gonna wear your bigboy pants and talk about Abarat? Or are you just going to continue to avoid that after game discussion?

Ok. Now that I've gotten the pettiness out of my system.

First I will give you recent meta on Voided. Words with Scum is a recently finished town game of his. Look at his iso. Notice the effort that he is putting in. He is inspecting players. He is looking for scum. Is this the Voided that you see here in this game? No. The Voided that you see here is being passive, defensive, and generally not helpful at all to the town. He is doing nothing but sitting on his hand and watch town lynch itself.

(I am going to link posts instead of quoting them because a lot of Voided's post a very long and I actually want people to read what I am saying instead of skimming it)

Spoiler: Voided is Scum readme

Voided's first actual post is a hallmark of his play this game. He claims he is catching up, but he isn't actually contributing anything with the post. What content is even there? Where is the scumhunting? There isn't any scumhunting. He is posting about shit that is irrelevant to the thread in an effort to make it look like he is active. This is a trend that you will see in his future posts.

Post 116 is eerily similar to the post above. Why? Because Voided really doesn't give a fuck about finding scum in this game. What does he do in this post? Engages in a policy lynch on an easily readable albeit bad player, makes filler comments to my slot twice (dafuq and calling us town), calls Salamence the second "lynch" after PM is gone for whatever reasons. It isn't even apparent whether that is a policy because it is Salamence who is another perceived bad player (although less so after the recent Disney game) or because he thinks Salamence is scummy. He then reaffirms his vote on PM by quoting a post of PM and being generally dismissive. He then asks a very lazy question that he could have easily found himself, especially since he has a memory of the game I referred unlike this slot who only read parts of the game.

Seriously? Voided is posting noise and a lot of it while being useless in an attempt to look like he is contributing.

Post 120 is very interesting. Specifically I am talking about how Voided continues to push the policy lynch on PM while also opening up the option of hammering DrMyShotgun. The funny thing? He talks to Shotgun in a nice, friendly way. A friendly way that does not come from someone who is suspicious of another player. At this point in the game he hasn't even made mention of finding DrMy scummy but he is already willing to hammer him?

Post 130 is more of the same from Voided. Each "response" to the quotes does not add anything to the discussion and useless. He can guarantee that Richard is not Parama. So what? How is that important or relevant to the game at all other than saying "I know this"? He asks where Piggy is, questions Salamence's PR, and in fact defends DrMyshotgun not only once but twic by saying "he doesn't think there are more than 3 scum" and "you vote gunny then ask why he is scum". Again, he is willing to hammer that? HIs attitude and his actions are completely divergent. Only now does he imply that he thinks Shotgun is scum by saying AP could go after Shotgun (and subsequently no longer wishes to policy lynch PM which I highly believe was a stall vote until something better came along, like DrMyShotgun).

His question to piggy, who he was interested in knowing? Please don't talk because he doesn't want to read her post restriction. Where is his train of thought? Why was he interested in hearing from her, but now doesn't add anything to say about her. ANother filler comment designed to look like he is contributing.

SURE WE ARE! (okay, maybe not. We'll just lynch you or Gunny, then.)

This deserves to be quoted because it is so bad. He is already setting up possible lynches to see where the town is most willing to go. First it was a policy lynch against PM, then a comment about Dr, and a comment about AP, then saying he is willing to kill Shotgun and AP, but now he is still willing to kill PM based on policy? No. There is enough content from PM and other players in the game that he can move his vote to voice his suspicions. He was waiting to hammer because he thought he could get away with it. Instead he chooses to remain useless and engage in a policy lynch and then call for a hammer that he has listed 0 reasoning up to this point as to why the person should be hammered. 0.

This is not townie intent people.

Post142 This post is bad for two reasons. 1) he makes yet another filler comment that implies he is not even completely serious about this game even though there was perceived hammer on Shotgun. Are you fucking kidding me? LIke I said before, bastard moniker does not excuse bad play. 2) He says that PM is policy lynch material, he says that PM is bad at reading comprehension, his vote is still on PM for a policy lynch and then he asks PMs opinion about AP? He doesn't ask anyone else who he thinks is a competent player. He asks the person he wants to fucking policy lynch about another person that he says "deserves to go". The fuck? How are the fuck are any of you calling this town behavior? Magna, are you reading the same game we are reading? Or are you smoking the crack that Parama was on in the beginning of the game?

The posts between the last linked and this one are all just filler that add nothing to the game and just go to display Voided's defensive and unhelpful nature in this game. Seriously, you don't even have to really read Voided's post to see that they are filled with one liner responses that do not help the town find scum and are just clogging up the thread. Post 188 He finds Magna's hammer suspect, but he was willing to do it? THey both accomplish the same thing. What would be the difference between MoI's hammer and Voided's hammer? I really think this was a weak attempt to distance himself or gain credit should either Voided or MoI flip. Again, there is a present disconnect between Voided's actions and his thoughts. WHat I really like about this post though is the fact that he goes on this rant about Pm being useless and bad at the game, yet he asked for his opinion on AP. Why?

This post is the creme de la creme of Voided's scum posts He has some suspicion about the "hammer" yet when it is revelaed that Dr was not hammered he does it anyway? Okay. Fine. Town are illogical sometimes I am willing to admit that. I've been there before and sometimes my mind shits on itself. However, when I call Voided out on the fact that he is lying about "not knowing" we didn't want Dr lynched is such bullshit. He publicly acknowledges that he read our post, or posts about the fact that Dr was not lynched through two statements. The first statement is his use of pedit. The time between his last post and the hammer was 6 minutes. If he had begun to make ANY post between that time line and then try to post it, he would have seen a list of all the posts already sent, he would have seen our plea/call to *not* hammer. The second part is the fact that he says, Oh I guess I counted wrong. Really? That is interesting because the only posts with numbers are Parama's, PM's, and ours. Parama's and PM's were posted before ours. If he saw those posts in a pedit it would be physically impossible for him to *not* see our post.

His reaction to me calling him out on that is classic scum. It isn't, I am sorry, but I really didn't read it. I am sorry but I was just skimming or I am an idiot. It was

you can't prove that I did or did not read it

. Its a fucking slap in the face and shows no remorse about his action. He is being snarky and disrespectful.

this post is hilarious. The tone is completely forced and more "go the fuck away you annoying gnat" then "why is he having such a hard time understanding what I mean"

When I am town and people do not understand me I make damn well sure there is no confusion. I tell them what I am thinking. I tell them the reasons behind my actions. Voided doesn't do that. Instead he is annoyed that we have a problem with his play. Are you honestly serious?

I'll get to this later but one of the best things I love about Voided's play thus far is that he was willing to lead a policy lynch on PM for being useless, a bad player, and having horrible reading comprehension, yet when I am pressuring him and grilling his ass about his horrible comments and reading comprehension he is all defensive. So it is okay if he does it, just not if PM does it. Gotcha. Hypocrisy is *so* cool.

A key example of his defensiveness His apology is too little too late after all of the other posts he makes.

I am noting this here as a possible connection between Nobody and Voided. Currently we think that Voided is highly probable to be scum, and Nobody's lack of doing anything is suspicious.

Okay, so because I misread the gamestate itself and thus drew an false conclusion about a post (that I just admitted to and apologized for upon realizing this), suddenly I'm vigbait?

Really?

Ya. When you call PM lynch bait for exactly the same reason.

Post 250 is one of the only times after Shotgun has been lynched (and still actively posting mind you) that Voided feels compelled to talk to him. Its a dismissive, off the shoulder comment made to discredit Shotty furhter before he dies. It is bullshit.

Post 271 Are you fucking serious? You just hammered the kid, then said what he was doing was diversionary tactics and you talk to him like this? IS ANYONE FUCKING READING VOIDED'S POSTS BECAUSE FROM THE VOTES ON US, YOU PEOPLE ARE CLEARLY NOT.

If you've read my posts, you'd find this to be a nonzero number and that YOU are trying to discredit me.

Um, no. I did. The only original opinions you've given are that you want PM to be lynched, you somehow found Shotgun scummy enough to hammer him without remorse, and you want AP to be lynched but aren't too concerned with telling people why. Is that it? I think it is.

In this post he says that saying something is "goodposting" is him somehow contributing when he didn't even link to the right post. He isn't reading the thread. He is just saying shit.

Yes townreads are fairly easy to give out when you are scum. Scumreads, not so easy.

P-edit: KJ. What? If she is town then she doesnt know what shotgun will flip so why would his flip matter?

It's more of she is town because I can't imagine scum playing like that. Because scum

would

know what he'd flip.

MoI had presumably laid the hammer down. Scum wouldn't tie GreyICE to shotty via an incorrect bussing association if shotty was going to flip town.

This is a good point. I'd endorse some Sha pressure tomorrow.

how is that a good point requiring pressure on Sha? That is a defense *of* Sha saying she isn't likely to be town if Dr was town unless I am misinterpreting that.

I don't even remember what that P-EDIT was to anymore. People kept postjacking me.

Maybe I just saw the "Gunny has only 6 votes" and didn't read the rest. Again, one action does not always make terrible play, and unless you can show that I read and understood that post in its entirety and then blatantly ignored it to hammer Gunny, then you'll just have to deal.

P-EDIT:...no i didn't. I was pointing out how Gunny was a prime example of confirmation bias against PM, not you.

WHy don't YOU learn to read for once?

THis is the post that I was talking about earlier where he is defensive snarky and instead of feeling remorseful or getting emotionally annoyed/angry over what he did and how I am perceiving it he states "well yo ucan't prove it so you can shove it". No. That isn't townplay. Town would want me to think he is town despite the bad player. Voided if he was town would explain and go into more explanation. Instead he tells me to deal with it? Like that is going to fucking change my mind in anyway.

And its funny how he snipes me after just telling me to go away because its just reading comprehension. Passive aggressiveness at its fineness.

288 THat isn't the impression that I got from that post at all. Nice of you to immediately jump to conclusions and shoot it down, though.

Gunny, I think you've skimmed over him a bit too much. 168 and 192 are :goodposting:

Was talking about Salamance there. Sorry for confusion?

...

I need to get to bed.

I've had more reading comprenhension fail tonight than I probably have over all my time on MS.

Do you think you should be policy lynched a la PM? Serious question and since you already committed to reading this I am expecting a response.

It's a question of whether or not I parsed all the information correctly, which is unfortunately proof that neither of us can actually provide. That P-EDIT line can go either way.

No it really can't, but nice try. I really thought I was wrong yesterday but after rereading your iso there is simply no other explanation other than yo ubeing scum, Voided.

A lack of clear reasons for a vote isn't a "me" issue. Insisting on having said clear reads (even if they're bullshit) is my peeve. The former is more useful as a potential scumtell (or whatever), the latter is not.

And what was your reason for voting Shotgun? You gave none and only in passing comments said you would lynch Shotgun? You dug yourself a mighty fine grave buddy.

[Soul2277]

...Oh, you're talking about Shah again.

You really should've put that on a separate line -_-.

LEARN TO FUCKING READ INSTEAD OF ASSUMING EVERYTHING

I AM REALLY THIRSTING FOR YOUR BLOOD

And Sal, please quote the posts and give movement reasons why you don't like them.

[Soul2277]

Voided we didn't give one reason you were scum. We gave a wall. Countering one even if we still say you showing lack of reading at times and wanting to kill pm for mistakes is still hypocritical (and the lack of reading is bad on its own) doesn't counter at all the other reasons why you are scum.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Show are you saying PM and voided are different alignments?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

EBWOP: So not show

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

I mark every single one of my posts and vast majority are made without some detailed discussion with OS (we mostly just discuss reads then post separately). Are you saying you can't meta me at all?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Sorry for not signing recently I was too involved in the game

Sal, how do you get Voided town out of anything? Please quote the things he is doing that you find town.

Do you not see the hypocrisy inherent in calling for a PM policy lynch?

Do you not see PM's struggling attempts to scumhunt? Do you not see Voided's lack of attempts to scumhunt?

[Soul2277]

^ OS
~ OS

[Soul2277]

Why Voided and MoI, specifically, NS?

~ OS

[Soul2277]

... and you're gone.

~ OS

[Soul2277]

Because

reasons.

That shit don't fly.

But it is nice that you are tieing yourself to your buddies for us.

[Soul2277]

Really. Shahrizai is like off the charts scum. One of those rare scummies that is radiating scum vibes so hard that I put on my sunglasses, smile, and soak in all the delicious obvscum.

Soul's defense of Shah is pretty much that: SHE ONLY MADE ONE POST. SO WHY IS THAT DEFENSE WEIRD TO YOU WHEN YOU SAY THAT NOONE SHOULD REALLY HAVE AN OPINION OFF OF ONE POST (AND THAT IS PRETTY MUCH WHAT SOUL SAID)??

So let me get this straight. soul is scummy for saying there is no case on you because you have no content. But me tunneling you is not scummy at all? Hrrrrnnnnnnngggg.

VOTE: Shahrizai

Choo choo

That's not what I am saying or what Mehdi said. You immediately wanted to kill Shah. Why? Because of her one post. Killer jester made an accurate post yesterday about Shah (I even said I had basically te same thought).

The fact that you kept goin after her for that one post was what I found strange especially when KJ gave a really good answer that explained her actions.

[Soul2277]

AND NO MOTHER FUCKING QUICK HAMMERS WHILE I RESPOND TO VOIDED.

I also noticed I forgot a tl;dr version for Piggy and other lazy bastards.

Tl;dr Voided scum is basically at the beginning he never really contributed instead made empty comments that did not further the game, made a horrible hammer on Dr that he never explained for disliking and then acted incredulous when I called him out on his reading fail, his hypocrisy towards getting PM lynched, he had not been scumhunting

Also, once I respond to voided I am going to add another layer of reasoning, but this one is saturated in WIFOM and y'all will probably pee your pants when I say it

Pedit: I'll respond later moi

And your last point, yes I did want to get you riled up. I wanted to see your reactiom

[Soul2277]

Lol. Have you metad me before MoI? You really should. It would probably give you a 100% accurate read on me in this game and any future game.

[Soul2277]

Skimming the response a bit in class, we don't have a scum read on AP after his angry postin towards us today. You can see that we we said AP is misguided a best and scum at worst (crtl f misguided)

MoI you didn't really answer most of my questions. You just skirted around them.

I want you to tell me what you think of Voided if we flip as either alignment. No hidden implications because you "list us as scum"
pedit

MoI you cherry pick shit all the fucking time. How accurate was your "two cards" slip by Dr? Oh right. It wasn't.

And what read of ours was wrong Day 1? (I am answering a question in your first response to us) People we have called town have flipped town

Ok professor just called on me. Talk to you guys later

[Soul2277]

MoI if tere is one thing you should take away from my playstyle it's that I don't willynilly my vote around.

[Soul2277]

Nobody Special, if you are town you will stop using the blue bolded text.

See, Soul? This is why I've maintained a PL status on him.

This post doesn't comment about how Sala reads us (which is what he does in the quotes). He doesn't try to ask Sala why he has those reads or what they mean. He doesn't even try to argue his towniness, my scumminess, or my towniness. Instead, he goes after the fact that Sala used dolls to try and explain his point.

I had hoped what came D1 was a sign of something better. It seems that I may be mistaken.

This is typical PMysterious play. I hope he does not hate me for saying this but I seriously think he has some sort of mental disability. I am completely fine with that. Using that against him is fine too because it is annoying and distracting, but he does have towniness in his posts. Have you read any of the games where he was lynched, ongoing or not? Just read them. Don't give me a comment about them. Just read them. You'll see differences in his play.

[Soul2277]

Oops. I seem to have fucked up my tag.

StrangerCoug's co-moderator, could you please fix my bold tag in the previous post?

[Soul2277]

Spoiler: Responses to Voided

One notable difference I'd like you to be aware of is that with WWS I was there at the beginning (more or less) and was able to immerse myself into the game almost ASAP. Here I had 5 or so pages worth of RVS-like posts that I had to wade through. It's not hard and fast regarding me, but I do have some problems getting into the swing of things when I'm not there right at the start of the game.

I will conceded that point and I am glad you raised it. However, a day has also passed and it is only after night that you started to pick up your slack. Even though you are posting slightly better today, that occurred after a night and that does make a difference.

Also, sitting on my hands? That is an outright lie.

Is it though? Who were your suspects other than hammered Shotgun yesterday? You never enumerated, simply that you had a lot of townreads and few scumreads. You raised policy lynch talk about PM, but that is not related to alignment. You said AP could go after Shotgun, but you never really pushed that.

What exactly did you do for the town yesterday that you think was helpful in finding scum?

Asking you about post restrictions is one point of content.

Asking you about what you weren't going to let MoI do this game is another.

I think you and I have completely different opinions of content.

Both of those looked like sarcastic comments. Especially the MoI comment.

By stating those two questions in particular are you admitting the other quote strips in that post were not content (in your opinion)? Or are you just singling those ones out because they relate to us and we are having a discussion?

Because prior to this game PM had made pretty much zero attempts to even try and be a good player by any stretch of the definition. It's not so bad that I'll never /in to the same game as him ever, but unless it was a do-or-die situation or otherwise not worth it I would advocate a PL on PM D1 every single time. Some of his posts D1 have given me pause on this view of him. There is the rest of the game to figure out whether or not he should still be called "useless," but if his play keeps the same quality as yesterday I'll at least not consider him PL material.

This is some Umbrage v LlamaFluff level shit right here. Quite frankly it needs to go and it is quite distracting.

PM will largely remain useless. It is whether or not he has intent to help town or hurt it. And if he has a PR that physically affects other PRs such as roleblocker, or vig, well, it at least needs to be restrained in my experience.

@about calling us town, yes when it was haphazardly thrown around. It was more of a "I don't really care you can be town comment".

Also, my mistake about Sala. I did misread that.I felt when reading your posts and up to that point you had not adequately explained why you thought AP needed to go but somehow went on about Sala.

And what do you mean you can't make what his PR is?

Post of Gunny, not PM. Considering that the first time I actually quote a post of PM's is in 142 I find it weird that you'd mistake a post from Gunny as a post from PM.

Yup. That's what happens when you are rushed to get something done.

Do I have to act like I'm his enemy when I think I'm scum?

If you want to know why I thought Gunny was scum, post 58 was not a good post by Gunny for a couple things:
1. I don't know why Sala was stuck to that kind of style, but it doesn't feel like a fake restriction.
2. Trying to assert that he was making himself conftown just did not sit right with me. I know that there are players who do stuff like that, and i know Gunny can be one of them, but the way he said it felt too tongue-in-cheek to be from town.

No, but you should definitely act skeptical or suspicious of the players posts. Your tone implied neither.

And what about players who assert themselves as scum? Or the fact that many other players in this very game did the very same thing that Gunny did? Grey and MoI for example.

And it was fairly established at that point I didn't want you around plus it was not relevant to the game realistically.

To the first: And since when can you not defend actions of people, even if you think they're scummy? That was a bad angle to attack Gunny from, and I was making my stance on that known. Why is this bad?

To the second: I wasn't defending Gunny there. I was attacking AP for voting and defending Gunny in the same post (and before you try to grill me for "assuming things" again, there is little context around that post to show that AP meant to ask anyone else about someone other than Gunny being scum. If there was, no explanation from AP was given.)

The point I am trying to make is that you shouldn't have suspicion of people who vote your main suspect and that you called for a lynch, let alone give them reasons why you suspect them (the voters, not your main suspect).

I am not saying you can't defend a player. I just don't understand why you are defending a player you want to die anyway.

Where do you see ANY indication of me not wanting to PL PM? No such thoughts ever ocurred until I was shown that his play this game was substantially better than any game I've seen of him or played with him.

Naming suspects that you think are scum is not wanting to lynch PM. Unless I misinterpreted that (which it seems to be).

...uh-huh. I'd already stated I wanted Gunny lynched (lack of reasoning notwithstanding), I had recently stated a scumread on AP, thus I had no problems with either of them being lynched. What, exactly, is scummy about that?

When you take it out of context (the fact that there was no reasoning behind the Gunny vote) not much. In context however, you are just naming suspects as a way to feel your way around the town. It is like saying certain jokes and judging the faces of the audience whether or not that was well received and if you should continue down that line of thought.

In what way was PLing PM still on the table? Everyone was aggressive towards Gunny and you were making damn well sure to not really be convincing about anything, whether it was a Gunny lynch or a PM Policy Lynch.

Look, I understand that you see me as scummy (or want to), but this is reaching. So I reacted (admittedly rather poorly) to MoI "hammering" instead of me. How does this indicate that I'm "not even completely serious about this game"?

Because someone just died? Have you ever heard of the phrase, its all fun and games until someone gets hurt? And then once that happens everyone hunkers down? That completely flew over your head. You didn't care (at least immediately) about MoI's hammer. Just upset that he took your spot...

Ok.

PM stated he had a townread on AP. Regardless of my opinion of his play, that is something I think requires asking about considering I had AP as a scumread, no?

I will give you that, but what were you expecting from him? A stroke of genius?

Why are you so indignant about this point?

Because policy = doesn't give a shit about what their alignment is so why bother interacting with them
I guess this is at the point where you begin to consider PM PL might not be a good idea because he probably is town? Either way, PL in my mind is no interaction, just make sure this person dies. You're engaging him and asking things, doing the opposite of PL, but still wanting to PL.

Let me try to explain myself better. You are a teenage girl a that hates Teenage girl b. You don't want anything to do with her. One day you ask teenage girl b about teenage girl c and her looks. Why should you care what teenage girl b thinks since it will only be met with either derision, fakeness, or the thing you dislike the most about teenage girl b?

Again, I must've read the part about Gunny not hammering and ignored your plea.

Trust me, I wouldn't have hammered if I saw that.

....

This throws everything into the air.

Think about it. Why would me saying "I guess I counted wrong" have ANYTHING to do with the posts in the P-EDIT when none of those posts had anything to actually COUNT? Isn't it better to think that I was referring to the fact that I may have actually miscounted the amount of votes on Gunny?

Serious reaching, here.

But they did? PM and Parama both said letter for letter "L-1". We said, "yup Gunny is at 6 votes"

You said "pedit: Oh I guess I miscounted. Hammer."

Are you trying to say oh I [you] saw a peidt and then thought to myself [yourself] I [you] may have miscounted and then typed that out anyway with a hammer?

I apologized for not reading it properly already. Doing so again would've been redundant.

And that was a pure statement of fact. You simply can't. Nor can I adequately prove that I didn't read that since that requires believing and trust what I say, which you aren't likely to do.

(also, I wasn't being snarky at all, and I'm offended that you think I would be with something like that.)

We must approach this game from massively different angles because I am offended when others don't view me as town when I am town. I try to make it easy for everyone to see where I am coming from and that I do have the town's best interests at mind. That is partially my expectation of every other player in the game and when you only the single comment that I felt was insignificant in the whole post (I think you mentioned it once?) I wanted more apologizing from you.

And I think I can prove that you did read it but hammered anyway through the pedit hammer slip. But I guess I'm not explaining that well. I really wish others would comment on that (more than just MoI who always thinks I am scum)
I am sorry I offended you but that was the tone I perceived through the text.

When I had said essentially the same thing in Post 220? I was essentially repeating myself, which was annoying in and of itself.

You're trying to say that I didn't tell you what I was thinking? If you had read post 220 and didn't focus solely on the P-EDIT part you'd see that I explained this particular point already.

When your play had been filled with reading errors and lapses of revelance, yes I wanted clarification. If you hadn't answered me I would have been pushing you so saying that because you did what I would expect when I had already pushed you to explain is not relevant. The hammer is too grievous to ignore.

Just as cool as it is when you lambaste me for comprehension fail (which I'll admit I did a lot of Sunday night) and then turn around to do the same here in this wall.

Furthermore, PM IS a bad player who IMO had only shown better colors just this game. In the past (as in prior to this game and excluding anything ongoing), has essentially made nothing but useless comments that give no contribution to the game or gamestate, and has given maybe one or two posts at most that are actually contentful. In contrast, as you've so thankfully provided, I have a much better ratio of filler-to-content, and I assert that I do try to give one or two gems of content in some of my longer "filler walls."

Be honest here and do not get offended, but what was the tone you were going for with the "as you've so thankfully provided"? If it is sarcastic, I equate to snarkiness fwiw.

I've made two errors to your like 6? Also, I am not pushing a PL basically for that reasoning alone unlike you?

How long ago were those finished games?

Even though what I said is true? Gunny hadn't flipped town yet. As far as I was concerned, it was equally possible that Gunny-scum was posting to throw us off-track as Gunny-town trying to get in some last-minute (or rather, last-hour) posts and reads prior to SC locking the thread.

You still hadn't explained your reasoning for hammering Gunny at this point. You keep forgetting that and in my opinion you're holding me accountable for not thinking of your motive which is something that you never expressly shared with the town.

While I agree that scum are likely to do that I do not think Gunny as scum would attempt to do that as normally only more experienced, older players are confident enough they won't lead back to their teammates.

...What? What are you talking about (or rather, what part of the post are you taling about)?

You are talking to Gunny with that nice tone again after just saying he was doing diversionary tactics.

So 1) you hammered him because you think he scum, and 2) you literally just called him out on trying to confuse the town but you are willing to discuss with him over his comprehension of something.

It does not make sense.

Uh, no it's not (at least regarding AP, anyways). Though I suppose you think that since you took a post where I was attacking AP and took it as me defending Gunny, so...

That was kinda a call for you to ... umm... you know... explain? Maybe you might want to show us your opinions about the people you think are scum? And link us to where you said them instead of doing this sort of post?

How is goodposting contributing anything? It is just a buzzword that could mean a lot of things since goodposting is a relative term.

You got meta on this, then? Because that totally sounds like a meta challenge.

If you want me to dig up some games that I've never read sure? As I explained earlier, this is partially because of my point of view of what a townie should do and what you didn't do.

About Grey's post, I thought he was eluding to a power of some sort. Potentially a governor, or a daykill or something. I am probably alone in that thinking though.

If you want to talk about, PM, then let's turn that question back on me. "Can I (Voidedmafia) believe that he (PMysterious) can honestly play better than what I saw that makes me consider policy lynching him?" Prior to this game, and up to posts 168 and 192 in this game, that answer would've definitively been no. I've played two games with him, and in neither game did he show any indication of understanding the game, showing meaningful interaction with the players, or giving any sort of good contribution to the thread. But look at this game! There are a couple instances of the above D1, but what posts he has made have actually been somewhat contentful (they aren't necessarily GOOD, re. his attempt to meta MoI, but it's meaningful content). This has made me start to consider that maybe PM can play this game, and reconsider my PL views on him.

I will need to read your iso one more time and make sure that you started to engage in PM might not be completely shit type talk before we started saying PM was probably town.

There isn't?

Seriously... going into rhetoric about this?

There is, but not one in my mind that allows you to live.

And you reasoning is because he gave up? So that deserves a hammer?

~ OS

[Soul2277]

Also, I didn't answer everything you've said voided, but that is because I didn't feel like that line of questioning needed to be furthered and it would be discussed else where in the wall.

[Soul2277]

Now its MoI's turn

[Soul2277]

not spoilering this one

And the slip is of course secondary to his not-Town reaction to Grey's pressure as I noted (and you ignored).

Slips are loaded terms that people try to sell all the time. It is definitely a make or break it type of thing when others are on the fence about a particular player. Don't act like it is a "minor thing" when they really aren't.

And what was so bad about Gunny's reaction to Grey?

VOTE: Soul227

More detailed in the morning when I am not tired but suffice it to say -

1. Calling Shotgun obv-Town pre-flip has all the earmarks of scum looking for Town cred.
2. Vote on Voided to start today? Scum-claim if I ever saw one.

That should be enough for the moment.

Please explain how it has all the earmarks of scum looking for Town cred. We asked people to not lynch Gunny because I wanted to discuss with Mehdi about a possible soft claim from Gunny. Once we did and Gunny continued to try to be useful after his death, it was very obvious to us that he was town.

How is that a scumclaim? How do you know there are no other reasons? This is you being shortsighted. I don't remember you jumping to these conclusions without even taking a moment to think of other reasons.

Oh yes, you are being Consistent in your reads. So you must be Town right? [/sarcasm]

If you both seriously are trying to sell that Voided is likely Mafia then I know you have to be scum. It is pretty damn obvious he is not. If you can't see why ... well that's because you have a Scum Wincon clouding your reasoning.

No, but nice try to slander our name so the town feels more subconsciously compelled to not agree with us.

No one really discussed Voided except for you and us. You didn't expand on what you thought was town (did you even really call Voided town before this point?).

This is a very good point made by Angry. You know what has happened since Day 1? Two flips. That has a way of changing a Town player’s perspective especially if the lynch they thought was scum.

Post 349 is also a spot on observation. Soul is not talking to Angry as he would be a Scum read. Scum reads don’t have bad reads. They are scum so they push mislynches.

Normally this is a good point but you are taking it out of context. As I already explained Voided and Ap were our scumreads with Voided being our main read. From my wall you can see that we have a much higher preference for Voided scum to AP scum. We never said the intensity of the reads other than listing them and saying Voided was our main one. AP was a relatively much weaker read compared to our fervor in thinking that Voided was scum.

We were discussing AP scum while these posts were being made and his reaction and his reaction + vote on us makes us think he is town.

And that isn't completely true either? They could be bussing?

This is a very good point made by Angry. You know what has happened since Day 1? Two flips. That has a way of changing a Town player’s perspective especially if the lynch they thought was scum.

Post 349 is also a spot on observation. Soul is not talking to Angry as he would be a Scum read. Scum reads don’t have bad reads. They are scum so they push mislynches.

Normally this is a good point but you are taking it out of context. As I already explained Voided and Ap were our scumreads with Voided being our main read. From my wall you can see that we have a much higher preference for Voided scum to AP scum. We never said the intensity of the reads other than listing them and saying Voided was our main one. AP was a relatively much weaker read compared to our fervor in thinking that Voided was scum.

We were discussing AP scum while these posts were being made and his reaction and his reaction + vote on us makes us think he is town.

And that isn't completely true either? They could be bussing?

So do you think just calling points made against you vague effectively discredits them? Especially when the comments aren't vague in and of themselves?

Why are you always this antagonistic? Vague attacks means we cannot adequately defend or explain anything. If AP (I am pretty sure that is who Mehdi was responding to) wanted a legitimate discussion instead of loosely saying our actions were scummy by going through progressions that would have been fine. We have no interest in discrediting another player's attacks, but AP didn't give Mehdi anything to talk about hence the vague comment.

Cue the “I’m emotional so I’m Town” card.

How many times have I played with you MoI? How many times have I been town in those games MoI? How have I acted predominantly in those games MoI?

I think I have *one* game as scum where you were town and it was multiball and I certainly did not act this way.

I know you are a meta type of person you already in this game with regards to Parama saying you were third party employed meta (unless that comment was a joke, I can never tell with you). Do not give me the crap about "ingame motives are stronger than meta" when there is a clear and present pattern already established ESPECIALLY for my town meta.

What’s ironic about this is that you are assuming I’m not taking things into account when I clearly am. Just because I have a sleeping schedule that isn’t compatible with your posting schedule doesn’t mean I’m not. I just haven’t shared in the first 24 hours the thread is open and I need rest. Yet you are trying to spin it as if I have no reasons.

Sleeping schedule? No? Stop trying to put words in my mouth. What I was talking about was the fact that you aren't mentioning the scenarios like I normally feel like you do.

And cue the “We post a lot so we are Town” fallacy. Posting volume has nothing to do with alignment. Not to mention you are a Hydra so you SHOULD have more posts than anyone else by virtue of being two players in one slot.

That is not what Mehdi meant. Posting a lot, you are right, does not mean anything in terms of alignment. Posting visibly and transparently which is what we are doing is town. There is a difference.

As a hydra yes we should, but we also have to discuss things before hand so we don't confuse people? And even if you wanted to go down that alley just divide our posts by 2?

Well I already commented that your read on him was indicative of Scum alignment … so …

That isn't answering the question?

So what exactly is the point of this post? To ‘rile me up’ by insulting me so I’m not clearly focused on scummy behavior? I’d expect that from Scum Soul who already is frustrated that people are sheeping me in voting him and hopes an explosion from MoI would turn off potential sheep.

Scum Soul would have killed your motherfucking ass last night no questions asked. And no, you are right it wasn't necessarily a reaction test as you'd like to pass it as. It was me trying to piss you off like you piss off so many other players.

Your behavior that game was horrible. And people are still waiting for your justification of it all.

Attributing it to "avoid" discussion is a ludicrous statement and a great leap in logic. How did you even come up with that?

Part of the reason I hammered Voided so much Day 1 about his reaction.

I thought Shotgun was going to flip scum and Voided was possible scum and was pissed because he lost out on Town cred for hammering.

The instant Shotgun flipped Town Voided was solid Town to me for that reaction.

As much as I dislike your play towards us and think yo uare scum for it, I agree with the bolded statement is possibly true.

Soul’s ‘Voided is still scummy after Day 1’ is scummy because that flip on Shotgun as Town should clearly mark Voided as Town. Yet Soul is more worried about consistency than making logical assessments from the known data. Which is a hallmark of scum faking a scum-read.

So one comment makes us more concerned about consistency? Really?

This is a perfect example of the cherrypicking that I was talking about earlier in the game.

Also, you never commented on Sha. What is your read on her?

The fact that you think Meta is more meaningful than assessing in-game motivations is humorous.

The fact that meta is actually a somewhat gamebreaking tool to use, umm how is that funny?

Stop avoiding the question and just do it.

Hiding lack of commitment to a vote (despite calling several people scum) behind "avoiding Hydra dissonance". It is scummy because Soul is more worried about appearances than actually pushing on his scum reads. In fact read his Day 1 ISO. Look at the passive way he calls Shotgun's impending lynch bad but shows not an ounce of drive to actually stop it. That's scum motivated play - set yourself up for being 'right' on Shotgun while not working too hard to derail the mislynch.

You mother fucker. I bet if we had made votes that were changed or retracted because of differing opinions it would be hydra dissonance in the same vein of cognitive dissonance that you so often like to use.

The shotgun lynched happened so quickly when I was not online and Mehdi was (so we couldn't, you know discuss things/ ya... the things that hydras are typcially you know fucking made for?) there wasn't anything we could do. When Mehdi made the comment "don't lynch him" that was when I finally got the time to post in the google docs about Shotgun.

Lulz. Not that I really care (since you are a scum read of mine and I'm not jumping through hoops to convince you of my alignment for that reason) but I don't see any glaring omissions on my part.

Yup. You can die.
There is 0 possibility for us to be town in your eyes then?

I hope when we flip and people realize how wrong you are they will stop putting you on a pedestal. But by all means continue to climb that scum ladder.

I see you dismiss it out of hand with "you cherry pick all the time" while not bothering to address functionally how my conclusion is incorrect. I'm more than happy with my vote.

I am going to pull a play out of your playbook.

I am sorry I don't have a life style that adjusts to your post style and I was in class at the time.

Cherry picking had nothing to do with your read of Voided and everything to do with your read of us. How did you come to the opposite conclusion of that? Or were you assuming (again?) and applying it across everything I've said?

I have already explained why I thought the exact same post you call Voided town, we call Voided scum for. You also admit credibility problems with your second point about and that it can be faked.

Have you read my wall?

You do know who has the easiest time calling scummy Town correctly, right? It's scum who know they aren't their partners and look for Town-cred. Just like you are doing with your "I was right on Shotgun" start of day bragging.

What bragging was that? The fact that you erroneously applied a "slip"? Or the comment to GI when we both agreed to it?

I really like proving to you that you are wrong because you are so full of yourself. As Farside's sig goes "its the bitch in me that enjoys seeing people get their comeuppance".

~ OS

[Soul2277]

I’d like to point out that this is over-the-top AtE regarding him being possibly “quick-hammered” …

Yet again...

Considering what happened in this game and how fast this game is already moving, no it is a legitimate fear.

[Soul2277]

Urgh. I haven't read the wall, but lets not lynch Soul. Lets lynch Shah.

P-edit: Soul, what would you say if I said the team is possibly MoI/Piggy/Shah?

As in your opinion? I would agree that MoI is definitely a possibility, I would need convincing on Piggy, and I would basically need a guilty or information otherwise to say that Shah is scum.

What would you say if I said the team was Voided/MoI/NS with the possibility of GI?

~ OS

[Soul2277]

I am sorry but I want MoI to see that wall.

And Piggy that isn't really a good line of logic to use as Mastin and a few others (I am notably a wall poster) can wall as scum, especially MoI. Although I admit that Voided willing to do this with me is making me lean away from uber hardonscum on his slot.

Ya. NS isn't really being useful either if I can't get traction on either Voided or MoI he is definitely a nice alternative.

NS, why did you make a comment to those people but not others (mainly us?)

AP we really don't see Shah as scum dude :\

[Soul2277]

Gunny just came off Star Wars Voyager Mafia where he saw Shos scum busted Day 1 in part by his reaction to that exact style of play by Grey. Shotgun was Town in that game. So Town Shotgun knows that the playstyle can bring Pro-Town benefits but his reaction doesn’t acknowledge that.

Just to be quick because I am running out the door, but what is this MoI?

Is this meta?

Also, saying the word slip is a loaded word. Just like calling a girl who dates a lot of guys a whore is a loaded term... it doesn't really get into the matter of the subject.

[Soul2277]

You are acknowledging that you understand that your meta is “Such and such” so that taints any possible Town read I could get from said actions. Because your understanding of your ‘meta’ means you are free to exploit it as scum.

Except for the fact that I am not willing to break that meta?

Have you played with people who are "guaranteed" to be town in any CYS games?

Well.. ya I am one of them. Hate to break it to you but this is basically my version of redtext of truth and NS's weird hammer thing he used to do.

[Soul2277]

Yet not time to actually make a vote? If you aren’t scum you need to reassess why voting carefully is so important to your game as it is Anti-Town at its core.

Votes really aren't the most important thing a town person should do in my opinion. Age old ms saying "voting is only half the battle, convicning is the other half"?

I can vote anytime I want and it takes no effort. Convincing others takes a lot of effort and I have to actively work to get that done. That is why a vote can always wait.

[Soul2277]

Now who is putting words in people’s mouths? Please quote where I ever said there was zero chance you aren’t scum. I’ll be waiting. Otherwise I’ll mark this down as a straw-man attempt on your part.

So which is it? Am I scum pushing your mislynch or just incorrect Town who shouldn’t be sheeped? You are addressing me as both and it shows you aren’t committed to me as scum.

Well that and despite the fact you call me scum multiple times you STILL haven’t voted me.

This is the type of double standard that I kenw yo uwould hold the slot to where you said "well now I have to avoid hydra dissonance" when you would just as easily say "hydra dissnoance scuM!"

I only have one vote and I am voting Voided. You already made a comment saying that we didn't vote Voided yesterday and now you are angry that we are? and not voting you? Okay.

I asked you the question. I didn't say you said this there is literally a question mark in that sentence MoI. And I asked it rhetorically because you keep saying we are scum with these comments that imply 100% certainty like the scumclaim comment at the beginning of the day and saying yo uwon't answer me because you don't talk to scum.

[Soul2277]

The fact that you come to the exact opposite conclusion about Voided based on that post makes happy. As I’m Town and since you are coming to the exact opposite conclusion as me it supports my read IMO.

You used this logic against Gunny yetserday in regards to the flip. I am willing to let that slide since it is possibly a reading/understanding error on multiple peopel's part and it is a game mechanic so not really much to interpret there.

However, you make it seem as if only your opinion is correct about Voided and that specific situation. Are you really saying that?

And about Abarat comment and slander, that wasn't slander, that was to make you go and post there. The comments I am making about it have nothing to do with your alignment and everything to do with character out of the game that I think you are carrying over into this game.

[Soul2277]

Do you not read your own posts? Post 360 is clearly “Nah nah I was right and Grey and MoI were wrong”. Add to that you are of course sidestepping the salient issue that Scum can quite easily call scummy Town as Town …

That is partially my fault. I was mostly interested in your comment about calling us scum for what we said about Gunny before he flipped. I wanted to see if you were going to continue down that line of thought. And you did.

GI was definitely teasing and I admitted that.

[Soul2277]

Calling us scum doesn't excuse you from communicating with us. You're not infallible MoI and that is pretty antitown that you won't engage with me.

[Soul2277]

Piggy have you never seen scum text wall? It's not like it's anything new.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Can you start to explain your reads/votes/anything? That's the first time you mention shah and you just jump on to that bandwagon.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

A. Claiming without a hammer intent is just dumb.
B. Shah what do you think about a Moi/voided/ns scum team (with grey as a replacement if one of the three flips town)
C. Sala lining up lynches that far when flips will show quite a bit of association is even dumber (unless you think shah flipping town means nothing about anyone else's possible alignment)

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

The problem is you're both being too stubborn on something that only makes sense if everyone in the chain just flipped scum.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

You realize you've never once stated out of your mouth why you think that other then scum vibes (go quote yourself if you have, but I don't remember it) but are still being this stubborn when you won't even explain the read much.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

A. The majority of our posts are fairly short (the only real walls are with Moi and voided).
B. Either you're saying the walls are all null or scummy just by the fact they're a wall if they don't affect your scum read on us in which case that is dumb. I can even tl;dr parts if needed (reads being Moi/voided/ns/grey contain 3 scum probably and the rest is likely town)
C. I may be the concise half of this hydra, but sheeping when you won't even read your scum reads posts (and have the time to do so) is dumb. It's somewhat hypocritical considering I've seen you wall before as town.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

The amount of content piggy's given with a pr that'd make coasting easy makes me really doubt she's scum so I have her as a town read.

And KJ what do you think about our four suspects?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

His and our reads are separate even if we agree on reads. Voided we think is scum and have explained that. MoI soul has explained. NS's reason boils then to just mostly uselessness and the way he's voted with 0 reasons why is bad. Grey is more of PoE since we don't think everyone else is likely scum at the moment and with the fact he's been more passive in this game then he usually is.

Still the question applies. What do you think of those 4?

P-edit: Well C fairly well shows just how wall posting is just useful as town. I don't think it takes long to read although I read fairly fast so I've never disliked walls.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

You really need more rational reads at times. Grey has posted once all day with a post that just asks the mod something. That is literally all he's done this game day. Having him talk is not a bad thing and his passiveness is a bit scummy for him.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

List your town reads now PM. I want to know exactly who you trust to jump on that wagon. If it includes us then well don't touch that wagon.

@Voided, oversoul can help you there when he gets online. He knows MoI's meta much better then me.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

I find the night kill the strange thing (shah's comment again wasn't one of a scum team which I assumed was just town).

Anyways NS can you explain why you're playing the way you are first?

Voided I'm interested in your opinion on the rest of the Shah wagon?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

We'd expect a non scum read to die since we thought our reads were accurate.

P-edit: Still town.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

The way you argued with me and soul is really where our town read came from on you. The shah push you at least conviction with it, but I wouldn't call it a good reason for you to be town. As for who to NK that relies in part on who the scum team actually is and I don't want to give full current reads until I talk to soul about the last flip.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

The thing is we had another wall made on MoI scum so he definitely had a good chance of it.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

NS, are you playing this game to actually play (scumhunt)? Or has your play thus far been to have fun (no care)?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Too scummy to be scum is a horrible defense. Night kill analysis isn't useless. I already have some idea of why Magna would be shot (and people really need to stop treating everything like wifom since most things really aren't and creating wifom as a primary goal has so many problems it's bad to do unless you're about to be lynched).

[Soul2277]

^~Mehdi

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Ok, so

NS

and Soul are probably town.

Explain. I personally find NS to be really likely scum. Still think sala is town and shouldn't be voted (faking a pr is an excuse to coast a whole lot with little opinions, but that's not what he's been doing). Parama flipped town and even stated SC loves PRs so I'm not surprised with a teller type pr.

[Soul2277]

^~Mehdi

~Mehdi

I really suck at remembering this at times.

[Soul2277]

VOTE: NS

It's blatant sheeping like all his votes that have little thought or conviction. Bah, I wanted to wait before posting this, but I'll assume OS wouldn't mind (yup more then one wall was made during the night phase):

We wrote this during the night so we have to link to posts instead of quotes. Thank goodness Nobody Special is not very active... or verbose. Makes it very easy to analyze all of his posts.

Nobody's first content post. He never explains his reasoning for the DrMyShotgun vote and despite the mislynch you think he would at least express some opinion about the previous day. No, the previous day's history is like water off a duck's back to NS.

He asks Voided a pointless question that both Mafia and Town will answer the same. However, I have seen people try and gauge the tone and the syntax from that answer as a ways to analyze their sincerity. We will let this slide for now.

He asks Salamence, the player who can only post through Teller-like mime actions, what his PR is. What was the point of this question again? The PR has been used a few times within the last year and a half that if NS really cared about knowing he could have easily asked anyone else what it could be.

A good question to Piggy, but it is interesting that he names Voided and MoI after we have stated our suspicion towards both those players. We are noting this for potential relational tells in the future.

A question to MoI about his objective for this game. Again, like the question to Voided a completely pointless response as the overall answer will be the same for both Mafia and Town. Stylistically there will be some variance, but I (Oversoul) never took NS to be about the verbose or deeper meaning.

A good question towards Killer. See above about the question to Piggy.

Why didn't he ask Grey about MoI and Voided?

NS's answer to our question.

Has NS given reason for *anything* he's done this game?
Rhetorical question - the answer is no by the way.

NS answering our accusation that he is scum. This is the type of response I would expect from scum. Trying to play off the severity of the accusation while not getting into why, or even delving into the reason why we suspect him.

This post and this post are votes without reason, again like his DrMyShotgun vote. Have you noticed a pattern yet? It is called NS does not care about who he votes. He does not care about his suspects (he asked 7 people questions, yet he is suspicious of none of them).

The original vote on Shah is important because it shows he does not legitimately think she is scum. The second vote, one to pressure GI is useless and an attempt to divert the wagon now that Shah has claimed. He does not think Shah is scum. And he does not think GI is scum either.

Who does NS think is scum?
Rhetorical question - no one.

Hammers Shah for again, no discernible reason. At no point ever in this game has NS stated who his suspicions were. At no point in this game has NS attempted to scumhunt.

The hammer on Shah? For the sake of a hammer and a kill on someone that isn't him or one of his buddies.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Self meta isn't enough to excuse you from being on the wagons of two townies near the later stages while showing 0 suspicion of them before which just lets you sheep easily. You've shown 0 suspicion of sala all game, but yet jump on him quickly after grey? No, you are just wagoning people hoping meta or lurking will be enough to not get you attacked enough to be lynched.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

AP so does that thing not affect your read on NS at all? And what's your read on grey as well?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

So do you have actual scum reads on those 3 people you mentioned before? Otherwise I'd add grey to the iso list.

And is this not a contradiction:

I have a suspicion about the setup after seeing the Shah flip and my role. Debating claiming. GI is likely scum

As compared to this:

Grey is so Null. So very very null.

P-edit: Tell me about the soft claim in the google doc, OS.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

So what exactly is your stance then? Was he scum an hour ago and now just null? How did that read change?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

It depends a lot on how strict a mod is with PRs. I've hosted a game full of them and have been pretty lenient on what would fit. If you're lenient with them the majority of his things are actions (with a few odd ones that are usually debatable to be an action considering piggy broke hers and wasn't warned in thread I'm assuming SC doesn't warn players in thread for breaking a PR).

And grey you're not dumb. What's the scum motivation in faking a pr? It's usually to coast. He hasn't really used it that way.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... elect=9531

Pretty close to sala's current PR.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Self meta isn't enough to excuse you from being on the wagons of two townies near the later stages while showing 0 suspicion of them before which just lets you sheep easily. You've shown 0 suspicion of sala all game, but yet jump on him quickly after grey? No, you are just wagoning people hoping meta or lurking will be enough to not get you attacked enough to be lynched.

~Mehdi

Medhi/Soul

Neither of you are an idiot.

What, exactly, is Salamance's post restriction?

Is it "all sentences must have little stars around them?"

Or is it something else?

Jokes on you. I am an idiot (Oversoul)

We are missing things in terms of our reads. MoI's flipped undermined everything that we felt about everyone.

OS

[Soul2277]

I have a suspicion about the setup after seeing the Shah flip and my role. Debating claiming. GI is likely scum

I meant you AP

GI, Magician Mafia Vi's restriction

I'll get on the account tomorrow. Very tired and lazy.

I am beginning to wonder we don't have very many PRs because of the card mechanic.

I am deeply saddened by MoI flipping town. *sigh*

Person who soft claimed, you might as well you've already given yourself away.

~ OS

[Soul2277]

Piggy, why are we town to you?

What is your read on KJ?

NS, how exactly do you play... Link most recent town and scum game.

[Soul2277]

Night kill analysis (now that I've had time to talk a bit with OS) is that MoI did give some PR tells (specifically investigative) based on how hard he defended voided generally with he's obvious town with little explanation. Even if scum shot him because of a different reason voided has 0 reason to shoot him (and whoever mentions wifom can go die, since most wifom moves tend to be bad and avoided). Currently his play is fine today and while we still dislike him hammering drmy without us finishing talking we've flipped reads on him.

Currently think grey and NS are both scum. I personally think 3rd scum is PM/kj, but I'd rather not lynch either today at all. Sala shouldn't be lynched at all, piggy should never be lynched, AP not today or tomorrow, etc.

I personally think there's 3 scum (unless we really have 0/1 town prs which I really doubt) in this game and the game should be treated like that.

Next up a bit of role info there's likely been guessed. There's a strange card thing going on. We only have one card in our hand, but never used any so some role/mechanic can remove cards from your hand.

Lastly, what'd everyone think about a mass claim today (popcorn style with NS starting it) considering it's likely lylo-1?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

I just don't want lylo claiming although I do think today is more likely to be a good lynch then a mislynch.

As for piggy and sala iso both and tell me how they've used their pr to help them as scum. You'll find out they didn't. That's why I have both marked as very likely town.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

I'd say all card combos should be claimed. They don't give away your actual role and only one or two isn't enough to count cards with. So I don't see any disadvantage with it (and yeah we never made a combo). I was waiting to see if anyone else lost cards before revealing it.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

NS I agree. Kj is a lower scum read and not one I'd push for on this day right now so much (if we make Kj claim I'd have all four of my scum reads claim which pretty much would mean a mass claim since stopping when that much possible info was out wouldn't be a great idea). More interested in NS and grey claim (only NS right now though because he's the one I want lynched today).

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Considering we wrote the super case on him we've also considered how likely he is to be town and right now he probably is. So who else will you be looking at?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

It affected the read a bit (earlier on he was a town read and it just helped me place him at 3rd possible scum). Although honestly your meta thing was a fairly vague thing and it's just more of his coasting that I dislike (which is pretty much the same thing with PM since outside of that nice string of posts day 1 he's been silent) and the main way you helped was make me consider him more. He's still not my largest scum read though.

And while I don't constantly mention meta as reasons I do have some in my head (for example AP's never been scum on this site and I'd expect him to be more quiet as his first time scum here).

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

After usage (sorry for not being clear). Making yourself a target isn't the best idea if you could be fairly useful. After you've used your cards you essentially become the same as every other player target wise since role wise scum still wouldn't know and no card trouble (technically slightly weaker, but considering how hard card combos are to build well about equal). If anyone has some report because of cards then it should be claimed.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

DO NOT END DAY YET

I am discussing something with Mehdi

How does everyone feel about a card claim?

[Soul2277]

^ OS

~ OS

I need to learn to do this better lol.

[Soul2277]

Are you even allowed to reveal what the PR is?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Card claiming is mainly connected to trying to figure out something about the role that made us lose three cards (pretty much our entire hand). I do have a slightly different idea on how to deal with it (claim the cards we lost and see if anyone has them), but for now I'm waiting on soul. At the same time it's pretty hard to count cards from that little when they could have even been spent already.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Kind of assumed that was just his first card and don't want all of them claimed.

I do second piggy's question. Did you lose the cards or spend them?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Mod: If a player dies do their cards return to the deck or are they lost forever? Are spent cards lost forever or just return to the deck?

[Soul2277]

^~Mehdi
~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Connections really. If you want all claimed we only have one right now (and considering this is mainly to check some details I'll reveal the ones we lost now). Three of diamonds, Jack of clovers, and seven of diamonds. We don't have a single one of these cards anymore, but none were spent (they were just lost somehow). Those were the main things I was searching for or hearing something similar.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Doesn't have to be for some connections to appear. I've already seen two (one is pretty easy to tell just looking at who's died so far). I'm trying to see if I can't connect a few things with card loss (since I'm assuming right now that roles do have some connection to the card).

Started the game with J of clovers. Day 1 got three of diamonds. Day 2 got seven of diamonds. Day 3 start lost all cards and got a new replacement one.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Lost all cards and gained a 4th/1st.

The card we gained is connected to that (and if it was pure chance that got it it'd mess up the idea). I'll specify later.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

And AP who are you popcorning to?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Piggy's last card is one of the most interesting. MoI's card which does mean people can get someone else's lost cards in the same day it was removed (assuming MoI never spent it and I doubt he could have made a pair or more of Kings when people started with them).

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

And I'll guess NS's start card is a king of hearts (only four start cards left are K of H, K of C, K of S, and J of S). Last jack I'd guess belongs to voided. Slight bit of inference based on what's been claimed so far (if right on either it'd support the theory of cards do have some meaning besides spending).

P-edit: I'm fine with knowing what punishment ignoring her PR gives.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Yes you are, scumbag.

When have you fosed us? And what do you hate in the last post (the card claims aren't useless). Thinking more on it the only card I really doubt voided is would be K of H. Jack still feels most likely for him though.

I'll explain why once all the cards are done being claimed (quite a bit of set up spec).

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Where does piggy say she can't claim her restriction? That applies to sala, but piggy nope.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

I Lol'd at Sals last post.

GI why would Sal make Piggy do a PR too? That just seems so risky for a two man scum team.

[Soul2277]

OS by the way

[Soul2277]

Since we've learned that all cards are K, J, and Q's most likely can we just have everyone alive finish the claims (and scum can't fake claim a town K, J, or Q without being cc and I don't care if they try swapping cards since it just makes no difference with how my theories work and the moment one flips with a card that belonged to someone else would confirm the other as scum for not cc). NS can claim when he arrives (or PoE can reveal his since all that's missing is PM, voided, grey, and him). Voided is the most important claim honestly at this point (even if he doesn't know why).

It takes me a few seconds to remember a town faking a PR (MafiaSSK in Lynch All Lurkers Mafia). Important point remains the way he's faked it/used a real pr to give content is town motivated. As much as I would like for Lynch All Liars to be a golden policy it just doesn't work on some things.

P-edit: Grey he's made clear who he thinks is town (example being how he defended you) and who he suspects (having wanted to lynch me for a while expecting me and shah to be together). So yeah he's given reads. Has he walled with reasons? No, but he's done the main thing.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

I get the reference now. 422 is the game he claimed scum as town. Shaking head no means he's learned his lesson from lying like that as town (I think that's what he meant).

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Yup my guess does seem right. I'll reveal the info. I got the joker as my replacement card. The only card to flip scum all game. It made me guess that the power was scum. And beyond that it made me realize cards are connected to alignments and roles.

For example three vanilla townies have died as diamonds. Both PRs and NS (who acted like he had a PR day 1) have hearts. I guessed the heart since day 1 felt like you had a PR. All I need is voided's card to finish my theory speculation (last part containing alignment spec based on town reads and location of cards).

P-edit: Do not end the day. I need the last card claims to finish the set up speculation (combined with my own reads).

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Make a table of the cards. Patterns really emerge. I can see three likely patterns for scum teams. The key to all this is voided's claim (he's the only person I trust who hasn't claimed yet). I'm not randomly guessing, but most of the spec is something anyone can do if you analyze everything we know (the only info I had that helped me was losing cards and replacing it with the joker).

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Mine? Nope. I just like to analyze things (thank soul for the idea scum powers are connected with cards and I just took it further that the whole scum team has some pattern of cards).

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Sala we aren't using this to lynch town reads. It's based on patterns of scum reads.

And grey while your card isn't as important it does help organize info so I'd like your card claimed as well.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Jack of Spades most likely. Kj is more likely to be town if he's jack of spades. Him being a king would boost Kj's likelihood of being scum. Of the scum reads I have Kj is weakest so I'm assuming he's the town one of the 4 people I think scum will appear from (grey, ns, kj, and pm).

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Here's a link to a spreadsheet with all the info gained by this. It's written from my and soul's point of view.

Three patterns exist that contain two or more scum reads. The scum are all kings, the scum all have black cards, or the scum have one king, one queen, and one jack.

Of those three patterns two involve AP or voided having to be scum which makes me doubt them. The last one is that all scum are kings. NS, PM, and grey is that team of players. So I want them lynched.

Hearing grey's card won't affect this pattern although info is never bad.

[Soul2277]

^~Mehdi

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Oh and technically the all blacks could make the scum team kj, pm, and grey. It's just that it contains two town reads (AP and voided) plus ourselves so while it's still technically possible considering how strange it is I doubt it. If NS is town than the scum team is probably that. PM and grey are probably scum with either pattern.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

I'm an idiot then. I don't see how that shows whether he has King of spades or whether he has King of clubs.

AP/everyone so what's your opinion on the result of this claiming?

P-edit: Kj why? The only reason black kings is a better lynch is if you are one of the scum (or AP and voided which is extremely doubtful). If you're town the only true pattern assuming you trust me, ap, and voided is the kings.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

It's a theory. I'm basing it off scum read locations (there's a ton of combos that'd make this useless if I didn't have town reads I believed quite a bit). I'm not asking to lynch a townread. Even if this doesn't make you think it's true, I already had thought that group of 4 was scum. It's mainly a supplementary reason (although I personally think it's a strong supplement). Joker is obviously chosen for jester. Going a step further and thinking Sc might have tried to have some fun with careful patterns for other things is far from impossible (both PRs were also a heart while all the diamonds were vanilla town). Patterns have been proven to exist. I doubt they're all coincidences.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Grey so are you saying the two other shown patterns are pure coincidence? (all vanilla in diamonds and both PR in hearts) Jester is joker is definitely not a coincidence which helps as well.

P-edit: AP I'd help you lynch GI much more easily then the other two.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

To be clear at the moment any of the kings is where I'd shoot so I'd vote anyone of the three that'd be likely to be lynched.

And AP do you really see voided as likely? Grey with Piggy also feels a bit unlikely?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

It's why I said a bit. The team with voided I really doubt though. Still would personally feel more comfortable with a grey lynch > piggy.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

All clubs. I know my alignment though. I realize there's a ton of patterns so it's only useful if you narrow which ones you're looking for by some.

P-edit: You're voting her when you could vote GI/PM/NS. It'd help a bit if you're vote was elsewhere.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Right, because once in the history of mankind scum forgot who they night killed.

Wait, it actually never happened. Ever. In the history of mankind.

If there was a SK or something I might pay attention to it, but it's EVEN MORE LIKELY she's town off of that.

I thought both PRs were fake and scum considering you pushed the idea of a sala/piggy scum pair?

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Grey do you also think it's pure luck (along with all the coincidences which you barely address) I got voided's card right based on patterns alone when randomly 25 percent chance is all I'd have? Pretty confident they exist it's just which one is it (my main theory is all kings while AP prefers king, jack, queen).

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Unofficial Vote count
Piggy: AP
NS: Sala, Soul2277, Voidedmafia
Sala: GreyICE
Voided: killerjester
Soul: NS
Not voting: PiggyGal15, PMysterious

Both non voters could help and vote somewhere. Two more people is needed for NS to be lynched. Grey would need 5 more right now. PM also needs 5 votes to be lynched (any of the three work although the first two are stronger scum reads).

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

I agree with AP on waiting for PM to be replaced. Right now every townie-1 would have to vote for a mafia player to get them lynched. If PM is town every single active townie would have to agree for scum to be lynched (without bussing even though there likely can be). If PM is scum, well it's still useful to have the slot talk a bit more.

AP you've shown plenty of greyice lynch desire. Go there over piggy.

UNVOTE: NSVOTE: Grey

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

I've just grown to prefer GI after calling piggy town (or doing something town) when he'd been pushing on her and sala shortly before (NS works fine and I'll swap back if you vote NS). Voided is probably town (MoI kill makes no sense from scum voided when MoI was defending him hard and would have been willing to lynch us as well).

And do you want to lynch us as well?:P

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

As for the whole NS vote is good that's not what he said. He said they're good not that the vote is good (difference being he's repeatedly called both scum and who cares where your strong scum reads vote).

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Okay, they're both scum. Guaranteed.

In reference to our two PR people.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

Grey even if you were town I'd still want that read to be ignored because I completely disagree with it (nice that you can only see the scum motiv for thinking a read is stupid). I don't think you're town though and how you went to defend piggy when you were suspecting her before (maybe not as hard as sala, but it was still a strange shift) is scummy.

AP when you're done reading everything again tell me what you decide read wise.

~Mehdi

[Soul2277]

I can't find the proper post right now, but my recollection is that it was narrowed down to four cards, and then he picked ONE of those cards as his best guess for me. I just think there's inside information there, somehow.

Why did you post in blue at the beginning of the game?

~ OS

[Soul2277]

It was a not-too-well-thought-out attempt at faking a post restriction. After I flew too close to the sun, I decided it would be best to drop it.

How is the question related to the quote?

Because it is how Mehdi figured you'd be hearts since the other PRs were hearts.

GI, I feel that your theory of fake PRs could be proven by voting NS given the relationship through cards.

[Soul2277]

Why would you be laughing Piggy?

Any opinions, KJ?

[Soul2277]

AP have you not noticed how many people have suspected GI and NS? It's like half of the people, yet they just won't die. By now if it was a town lynch I'd guess scum would have joined in and pushed it through quickly. Day 1 and day 2 quick, but then when GI and NS are suspected the day becomes long for once? No they are both scum and I will not vote anywhere else (except PM for the king theory, but I doubt that wagon will grow easily). We agree GI is scum (you even said power lynch him). Lynch him. We can discuss sala more later (pretty confident he's town as repeatedly explained, but we can debate that more later as you want).

And explain how the MoI kill makes any sense from voided's mind. Even a bit of sense (outside of wifom which while everyone scares themselves to death by it is extremely rarely used as a reason for kills and has never been used in a single game I've played here as a kill reason). Voided is town and remember that.

~Mehdi