Mini 1396: Pokemon Gen I UPick (Game Over)

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

VOTE: Yamahako

My gut vote is better than your gut vote, Empking.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

lolwut no the opposite. he was protecting you from a very harmful quicklynch D1 when a quicklynch was not even in sight yet. if he lfips scum, I'll 1v1 you till I die

~~

The DeasVail wagon is just loaded with scum and fail.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Meh. I feel like removing my vote now, he does look like a newbie rather than faking it.

VOTE: Yamahako

דם רקשדםמד כםר איק מק'הםאק?

Because I'm voting for him and have you ever known me to be wrong?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

what is *your* reasons for voting him then?

He's trying too hard, in this case I'm reading it as indicative of scum trying to look like he's doing something useful. Also both of his votes are pretty bad.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Alright, so Yamahako is at L-2 right now. That's a shame 'cause I really wanna put my vote there, but I don't want to risk a quick derphammer. So for now I will

FoS: Yamahako.

I think you're wrong and that Yama is only at L-3; also you're wrong because derpy quickhammers are both fun and informative.

A couple quick questions too:

@Debonair Danny DiPietro:

What do you mean that Yamahako is trying too hard?

I mean it's like page two or three, there's nothing to really work off of but Yama is trying to act like there's significance in everything so he looks busy.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

How do you know DDD's "gut" vote was mostly random?

Umm.. because it was done in RVS, and was his first post.

If it was mostly random why is my vote still on him and why did I defend the vote?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD
It was random at the time you casted it, then he gave you reasons to keep and defend the vote.

Or are you saying it was not random to begin with?

If I had wanted to random vote, it would almost certainly have been placed on someone I know (you, shos, Shmugen, AV, Empking). I got bad feelings with Yama's first post and they certainly haven't abated.

Two scums in here: Lord Mhork, Annachie, Yamahako, AurorusVox
One more scum in here: Blastoide, Shmugen, Wisdom
Clownshoes town: theslimer3, Daumis123
Other town: Empking, shos, DeasVail
Obv town: Me

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Also @DDD,
what are your thoughts on Slimer and what do you say about his case on you?

Mhork, I expect newb-scum play to be more conervative, like you were, and I can't really see slimer as scum here.

What case? slimer says I'm aggressive, I am aggressive. Being aggressive isn't a scumtell in general and it certainly isn't one of my scumtells.

~

PEdit: The second group is simply those I don't have a town read on and I doubt all three of the scum jumped the DeasVail wagon so quickly.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Given this, do you also think there is at least one scum in: theslimer3 (3) - {Lord Mhork, Shmugen, Empking}?

I certainly don't think there's more than one scum in that group but given slimer's lack of competence I could see him collecting votes from town, so zero or one.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Been away due to Thanksgiving, will try to catch up tonight.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I hate basically all of Seanald’s catchup posts but it does looks slightly more active and compelling than his play in Best Athlete Mafia.

Annachie’s defense of multiple players being x just being x is not compelling in the slightest.

AV’s bracket point is exceedingly stupid, in my last town game I used (brackets [inside of] brackets) in one post, was still town.

Do I ever hate accusations of bussing on D1, it doesn’t happen that often and you don’t even have a flip to confirm anything, why bother?

Not liking AV for scum that much anymore, move him towards the town side of things. Move Wisdom farther to the town side of things as well while we’re at it.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

What I want to know is if people can point to a single reason to think Yamahako is town. Not they think he's town because they think player X is scummy and voting them or something, does anyone have any compelling reason he's town? And if no one can bring me a single reason can we please wet the ground with his blood.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

He also clearly showed that he had read all of it ("i want a reason other than saying x person is scum and votes Yama" - which is something I mentioned) yet no comments about it.

Maybe I'm missing something but I went through a significant portion of your last posts and saw nothing about Yama being town based on Yama's play. I saw you like scumteam whatever better but that didn't answer the specific question I asked.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD, do you have any reads on anyone else other than Yama? You act like there's nobody else in this game. That was the point of what you quoted.

You know I posted a slotting of players into tiers a while back and my catch-up post had adjustments to that as well. I'm clearly reading the game and I'm clearly evaluating things dynamically. Just because I don't pester every single player in the game and instead focus all my attention on a single goal doesn't mean I'm scum, it means we have different playstyles and given that I've told you I don't like your style before it shouldn't surprise you that I don't mimic it.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I have little to no interest in lynching Lord Mhork now after the fairly town AtEs he's been putting off. And while I wish Seanald were dead because he's some wonderful combination of unbearable, useless, and incompetent I'm not inclined to lynch him either. Yamahako/Annachie 2012!

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Awesome. Because as scum I would definitely claim in a conspicuous manner such as the way I did. It's absolutely impossible for me to be town, after all.

+1 Mhork is a bad lynch.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

UNVOTE: Lord Mhork
VOTE: Debonair Danny DiPietro

How about we let both bug types live and move to this one?

You know when you encourage the stupid you only get more of it back, not a good policy.

~~

Mhork's sort of claim is exactly how you sort of claim, you provide just enough information that when he does claim we'll be able to go back and see if his statements match his abilities. Is his ability actually interesting as he suggests, would it not be useful at all if scum knew what it was. We'll be able to answer those questions to help verify his role. It's not likely to come from scum because it hems him in significantly in the claims he can make, hence the suggestion that he's stalling don't hold water because the only way that claim makes sense is if he's already decided on a fake claim or more likely is considering his actual role. Yama's claim is nothing but a shallow attempt to duplicate Mhork's relatively succesful claim but without the characteristics that made it a good claim, simply put a claim of "PR" is not good enough.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So guys why DDD? Wasn't Lord Mhork like totaly the bad guy.

Here's the real why: because the two players I've played with most recently are terrified of my scum game and to be fair if I was scum I would expect to dominate this game. Sadly, I'm not scum so their paranoia mongering is in vain.

And Mhork was totally not the bad guy.

Given the UPick suggestion of heavy power all around and the fact that tracker is a useful scum role I'm willing to lynch through the claim because ringing up other people is likely to lead to either roles that can't be scum roles and lead to just handing more info to scum or more dual purpose roles and we'll have to make the same choice anyways and if that's the case I'd rather lynch the most likely scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD, where I've seen you as scum before (the most recent Last Will) you didn't dominate early game. Was this unusual then?

Dominate probably isn't the right word choice because it carries certain playstyle conotations; change dominate to win handily for accuracy then.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

couldn't you point it out before all the post 714+ mishmash?

VOTE: Lord Mhork

You do realize that information is freely provided in the sample PM and means exactly nothing, yes?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You mean like here where it says his role is town weak roleblocker?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Also double that facepalm: DDD, don't you have anything better to say?

I think playing the "Who did Mhork target" game is dumb unless someone can point towards a definitive breadcrumb.

I think slimer's points in defense of Anna are completely incoherent.

I think your rambling about threats at the end of the day yesterday felt like scum worried about another scum faction.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

VOTE: shos

Maybe rambling isn't the right word but the way it was raised certainly brought up red flags for me.

I think Anna basing anything on "Triple D couldn't be that wrong" is hilarious, because I certainly can be that wrong. And it's not even good logic now, it was true before we had two flips from the group, the odds of 0 scum in that group was somewhat low from an neutral perspective (34%). Now the odds are probably something like 53% from a neutral perspective and if she's town the odds from her perspective should be identical to any other player.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that when townies suspect people they say why. the fact that neither of you four stated any reasons for voting me suggests that at LEAST one of you is not just derptown. I'd go with DDD and you as scums on my wagon.

in fact why not VOTE: DDD

The most curious thing about this is that I've presented a reason why I think you're scum (of course you're going to say it's a bad reason but I gave my primary reason); if anything DV and AV are the two "bandwagoning without giving reasons" and yet I'm the one who draws your vote. Why don't the words and actions line up shos?

I'm going to go with DDD-Wisdom-randomguy scumteam for this game. it's a shame a wisdom lynch isn't going to happen.

We're like three days into D2 and no one has given a strong opinion on Wisdom, if you think it's right why are you too afraid to try and make it happen? You know other than the fact that you know several people have pointed at me as scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

on phone - deas yes
ddd where is that reason?

Scum definitely can have similar roles - my role pms wincondition suggests there's a serial killer too. ("threats to the town"). So a scum PGO-kind of role can exist I guess but it's unlikely since it would be unbalanced for the SK. how comes you used the word "also"? I'm not getting this - do you think he is TOWN or SCUM? should we or should we not lynch him? you threw lots of possibilities without taking a stance in that post.. I may be forgetting your stance from before but nvm, I'd be glad if you'd update it.

This bothers me immensely, threats is common nomenclature, and since there's usually more than one player in a scum team they are threats and each have to be eliminated. To me this feels like the concerns of scum, "guys I looked at the sample PM and it said threats so there could be another anti-town faction" rather than jumping to that conclusion as town on day one when there's absolutely no evidence to support the theory of a third party (in fact that's something I highly doubt).

Responding to relevant parts of Anna's atrocity here shortly.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Because I'm voting for him and have you ever known me to be wrong?

I think Anna basing anything on "Triple D couldn't be that wrong" is hilarious, because I certainly can be that wrong

I do have trouble reconciling these two statements. But that's a minor point.

You have trouble reconciling a serious statement with a joke made in RVS directed at two players I’ve played with before who have both seen me drive several mislynches; I wonder why.

Throw away reason given, followed by a claim of actual reasons when questioned, though the reasons given was from posts that occured after your vote was made DDD. If you had a reason at the time you voted DDD, you would have given it instead of trying to appear like it was an RVS vote. If it was an RVS vote that Yama gave you reason to keep on, you would have said so.

Maybe that’s what you would’ve done but I’m pretty confident there are multiple players in this game who again can testify that I can be irritatingly opaque. Reasons are for people who can’t get other people lynched through sheer force of will.

In fact DDD, that comment is the biggest scum tell you've made. That and stating that there are three scum, when we the town don't actually know.

I don’t think it’s a scumtell at all to have trouble following slimer’s arguments; he’s not exactly a wordsmith. Further, if that’s something you have an issue with you should note that I said that one line about having trouble following and then have said nothing about the argument since it’s not exactly a point I’m harping on. And the point about assuming three scum is so derpish I’m having trouble coming up with words for it that aren’t insulting; three scum is the default in a mini theme game and I’m going to assume the default until evidence suggests otherwise. Your point might have been interesting if I was assuming two or four scum or something unusual but trying to turn an assumption every reasonable player is going to make into a scumtell is nonsense.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDDon't be scumbro please.

K, done.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Well do you guys think I should have ignored the nightkill?

Alright, smarty pants what did the night kill tell you? And I don't mean list a bunch of possible options, what probably happened and what action should we take from it?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD 975: I'm trying hard and cannot follow your line of thinking. So what, if my NKA didn't get a concusive evidence that X is scum, that makes me scum? How is discussing the possibilities of what happened at night scummy in any way? why would townme NOT do that? doy ou disagree with my thought that mhork is likely to NOT have been targetted tonight, and that he probably blocked the kill? since there's a debate about how to act when you have a weak RB role, I'm not going to narrow my pool of scums so drasitcally, but hey, what are the odds he targetted a null read? likely zero right? so it narrows our pool by SOME and not entirely. that's the best conclusive thing I can get you.

and with time, in combination with what happens in other days/nights and the gameplay, it can help.

Did I say we'd never discuss it? I don't think I said that. I said discussing it now is an entirely pointless activity because your current conclusion appears to be "hey guys he could've targeted about seven different people unless he or someone else was busdriven and there's a chance scum might've killed him anyways" which tells us absolutely nothing and your insistence on it seems like "see, I'm doing something guys" because it certainly doesn't serve any sort of useful purpose today.

and why doesn't your entire ISO have any analysis of any kind? this is not your town meta AT ALL.

Ignoring the hyperbole I'm betting that's one game of meta as a town IC from a year ago; surely a sound basis for such analysis.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

On a scale from Seanald's ability to use proper punctuation to Seanald's ability to use proper capitalization I am Seanald's ability to find scum levels of worried about this.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Either you have something incriminating I should know before I vote DDD, or you're lying and need to die. Either way, I'll get a scum. The details of the information are, in the context of my voting DDD right now, irrelevant.

He has absolutely nothing I’m worried about. But the idea that he has to be scum because of his bluff is pretty pedestrian thinking Shmu. Are you saying town would never use that bluff to try and get reads?

I'd like to think DDD-town isn't this obtuse. The best that can be said for his arguments is that they're logical, i.e. they follow basic argument conventions.

But DDD-scum would be obtuse? Shmu remind me what games we’ve played together if they even exist because I’m blanking at the moment.

I’m curious why you think I might be scum other than “DDD-town wouldn’t be this obtuse” which is hilarious and wrong because I’ve slapped aside the reasons Anna presented and shos’ reasons are based on him missing arguments that you in particular should know I made so I’m left wondering why you think I’m scum since none of the arguments presented so far bear any merit.

~~

Wagoning without an explanation is not scummy.

+1

~~

you'll see that in the whole me-ddd interactions I attck him for the fact that he votes without a reason, nof for the fact that he votes.

Except I gave a reason, which I’ve since fleshed out for you and then provided another reason. Wisdom provided the original statement in his post 1505 (referencing my 836) which apparently you missed because your argument seems to mostly revolve around a baffling misstatement of events.

~~

P.Edit to agree with Wisdom about Slimer, maybe not the lynching part but please replace out if you can't do the game justice.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Im going to use my ability soon but first.

I really can't wait for this, you don't have a gun and if you want to use an investigative ability you're either going to eat your words or lie and out yourself as scum. So I'm ready whenever you are, hombre.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Given that I'm not scum frankly the whole discussion of scum partners is rather pointless anyways, but given that everyone else is either waiting for kmd to catch up, Seanald to do "whatever", or are just fundamentally useless there's really not much else to discuss.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The curious thing about Seanald's ability is the lack of our ability to prove anything without possibly lynching me in the process. Hence if Seanald is still alive and there's been an obvious scum ability floating around unclaimed it could make sense to attribute it to him.

Anna's arguments about the three scum thing are so hilariously bad and she should realize when absolutely no one agrees with them that she's not making an argument of any actual worth. That being said AV's vote on her is bad, do you really think scum are going to make that bad of an argument and keep making it?

And shos the answer to why Seanald was making such a big deal of the ability was he trying to sucker the rest of you into voting for me by pretending he had something solid when he quite obviously didn't.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Unvote, vote: Slimer

It might be scum. It might just be screwing around all day. But town will be better for it's being gone one way or the other.

Were you seriously proposing a policy lynch here?

Alright, let's get DDD to 4 votes, he can claim if he wants, and then gingerly push him to 5.

Vote: DDDP

DDDP currently has 2 votes.

And you follow it up with this vote? I won't go full conspiracy theory like Wisdom but this is indeed another bad vote. You're willing to possibly lynch me to prove Seanald's power which won't prove him town or scum either way and I'm not a loss because you met me once and from that "you don't think I'd be this obtuse". Seriously.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'd prefer Seanald actually make a case. I've got this theory where he's actually a cop or something hiding it in a terrible way.

Except he was saying this stupid shit on day one; unless you're going with day ability and also despite knowing that I'm guilty without a doubt that he couldn't bother to make a case to convince people. Talk about straining the bounds of credulity.

It can be used in anti-town ways, but the ability to bring about LyLo a day sooner is one not given often to scum teams. I'd consider it if there were 2 scum, but that's a lot of eggs in one basket for balance purposes.

Besides the fact that it can be used in such a fashion and still be balanced it also can be restricted so that it doesn't play with balance so heavily. Restrict it so it can only be used prior to MYLO/LYLO and if the setup is too complicated or that's too on the nose restrict it so it can only be used on days 1-3 or something.

You're really straining to find something where there's nothing and on absolutely nothing you've presented yourself so it's hard to believe you're so invested without you having compelling reasons (which I imagine if you had them you would have presented them.)

~~

Why did the shos wagon collapse again?

I'll be interested to see Annachie's reaction to the latest going-ons.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I will say this, even when Anna's arguments benefit me they strike me as pretty crazy and not really accurate and I hate that she just ignored what shos did that she chastised me about.

Also, I feel like doing this...
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Shmugen

He's been straining way too hard to create viable positions instead of them feeling like they're evolving naturally from a rational position. Couple that with the fact that I've got a lot of town reads and he simply isn't one of them and I'm willing to pull the trigger on this.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

This should be an Anna vote.

Nope.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So we're back to this stupidity again. Wisdom you lost yourself a lot of credibility with that vote because I expect Seanald to be a moron and Empking is scum but you, you've got no excuse.

VOTE: Empking

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

What the hell is going on? Shouldn't we be against quick lynching.at this point?

The kills prove AV & DDD as scum.

I'm expecting this explanation to be about this level of smarts...

Id gladly wagon ddd but holy fuck VOTE: empking

You'd gladly wagon DDD yet you gladly sheep DDD. Explain?

How about you explain why you're voting for me you fucking hack.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

How about you explain why you're voting for me you fucking hack.

Because Shmugen was town. Also because you've done nothing useful all game.

You know the first is bad logic and you know the second isn't true, hack.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The empking lurking thing doesn't help us much either

Other than make it pretty obvious he's scum but hey, when you have a chance to follow scum on to a bad wagon you've got to take that opportunity.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Also because you've done nothing useful all game.

I mean you say this about me and it's not close to being true but look at Empking and it's completely true. Empking isn't exactly a power player but usually when he's town he's good for something and there's absolutely nothing in this game.

~~

Incidentally does anyone want to confirm that I couldn't have made the kill last night?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

And... It kinda seems like what you're doing, wisdom. I agree that DDD would probably be our scum but I really really really don't think it's a good idea to breeze to the next day like this.

And for someone as smart as you, wisdom, I didn't think you would just walk into a speed lynch like this, which makes me very very peculiar about you...
Then annie also suspected you which doubles that.

If this is a bad idea why are you enabling it? Unvote so we can discuss this and then get it right.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Empking, do you think the fact they didn't kill a neighbour means they don't know who the neighbours are (Which means neither of the neighbours is scum)?

No I thinik it shows that they trusted that Ann was Ditto and considered that a greater threat than a neighbour.

I think that after I questioned slimer about Anna for the first time and she kept saying she knew Anna was town that was an obvious sign that slimer had role related information for that. Hence if I was scum, I would've killed slimer for having some sort of investigative role.

Scum have a roleblocker btw given that no one has decided to claim to clear that I was not involved in the night kill.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Want to make me look like an idiot here too...?

You're doing a pretty good job of that on your own. It's simple, I'm playing the way I play as town, I make up my mind and I commit to things. The Yama lynch was my lynch, sure I was wrong but that happens for me but that's a push I make as town, as scum I'm much more malleable. If I was scum you probably wouldn't have seen me defend Mhork is vigorously as I did on day one either. And frankly Empking is as obviously scum as I've ever seen him; it's not like he's an elite player or anything but as town he usually has something to say that's productive; look at the game before I started pushing him today and you'll see a desolate wasteland of content or original thoughts. Usually I'd throw in an appeal here to make yourself look town by getting on the right lynch but you're obviously town, just incompetent.

Hey Seanald, if I was scum why haven't I killed you already and got you out of my hair because I would've wasted your tedious ass at least last night if I was scum.

Wisdom, I really have no idea why you're currently so wrong, how can I clear this up or are you completely invested in the retarded subplot that has to be driving your vote.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Hey Seanald, if I was scum why haven't I killed you already and got you out of my hair because I would've wasted your tedious ass at least last night if I was scum.

Would you have seriously considered Seanald threatening enough to risk attention from it?

No one seriously does night kill analysis so that's not exactly a concern and while I wouldn't consider him a threat his obnoxious continual presence does have me at L-1. Given however that you and kmd hold the balance of powers in your hands I'm not concerned because frankly all the player's voting for me are new/bad/Empking and all the players who know what's up are voting with me and you'll both break that way given time because I'm pretty obviously not scum and Empking pretty obviously is.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Hmm... That was a very scummy post sean. I find his words very hard to masturbate to

If I was one of the hipsters who posted much in the non-mafia forums this is where I'd quote your post and just post your avatar as a response.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'll claim soon if I can't change things significantly by today/tomorrow, my earlier comment was obviously a soft claim to a degree so don't trot out the banal "hur hur he needs time to make up a safe claim" because my claim if/when it comes is truth and will match that.

Ddd is using eifom with nka and I'm now willing to put my vote back there

I really shouldn't be poking someone I apparently need on my side but it's pretty convenient how suddenly when I'm at L-1 but it looks like I might have the votes to get Empking lynched you suddenly reverse course to put the pressure back on me.

Ddd is using eifom with nka and I'm now willing to put my vote back there

So you're intending to hammer?

Hey Wisdom, why won't you talk to me? I mean I couldn't get you to shut up last game and you know I like to work one on one with people I need to influence so why not talk to me. I know you can't be that confident I'm scum since I'm not so what's the deal hombre.

~~

Hey AV, it really should be pretty obvious I'm town and Empking is probably scum, perhaps you'd like to help me reverse course on this thing instead of letting things fall to shit?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

What do you want from me...? I don't usually talk to scum.

We both know that's not true, you were talking with everyone in the last game, in fact in end game your sole play was to say to both players including one who had to be scum "convince me". Also I'm not scum so that banal assertion doesn't really stand anyways.

I just want to know why the fuck you think I'm scum because as far as I can tell there's absolutely nothing there. Because I've seen two points, one that Shmugen was town and one of Shmugen or DDD has to be scum and I can tell you that's fucking wrong and it's innane anyways and the second is that I "haven't done anything" this game. That day one lynch on Yama? Yeah, that was my lynch, that defense of Mhork towards the end on day one, that was mine, the hard push on shos at the beginning of day two, that was mine. Oh yeah, and the push on Empking here, that's mine as well. So "hasn't done anything this game" is nonsense and apply that standard to Empking, what the fuck has he done all game?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You are scummier than everyone else who is alive in my book.
1) You have been on both mislynching wagons on crucial places; in one you started the wagon and never moved from it and in the other it was an L-1 vote.
2) You have been a scumread of most of the town people who have died. You're also a scumread of some of the living people I have townreads on.
3) The way D2 went, there's no doubt for me that you and Shmugen are not of the same alignment. We learned Shmugen's so yeah.
4) What else have you done? Saying Mhork is town? Great, distancing from the ongoing wagon. Saying shos is scum; that's something yeah, we'll examine that after your flip. Accusing Empking because of basically... meta? Okay.

Yeah, those are enough reasons for you to die. So if you finished thinking of a fakeclaim, go ahead.

1) "On crucial places" means absolutely nothing; in fact the crucial place of starting a wagon. Yeah, you're less likely to find scum there in general and that's even more the case when it comes to me. I mean being on the beginning and end of wagons is apparently scummy and the convention is that the middle votes are the ones trying to hide so clearly voting for town means you're scum; we've got a lot of scum in the game apparently.

2) And? This is nothing but a fallacious appeal to authority.

3) Yeah, this is nothing but an assertion, not an actual argument and a fucking wrong assertion at that.

4) "So besides that how did you enjoy the play Mrs. Lincoln?" I mean seriously, you say, "what have you done?" I list at least four things including some fucking significant ones and you go "so what", well it completely undermines your argument, that's what.

5) Answer my question, if I haven't done anything this game, what the hell has Empking done?

PS that totally isn't a cop claim btw.

Thanks AV, I'm sure that'll sway the undecideds.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD why aren't you claiming then?

I'll claim soon if I can't change things significantly by today/tomorrow, my earlier comment was obviously a soft claim to a degree so don't trot out the banal "hur hur he needs time to make up a safe claim" because my claim if/when it comes is truth and will match that.

Just want some time to work; wanted to push Wisdom a bit since I was hoping I might be able to move his vote or at least see what the deal was. My opinion has been degrading all game and it's pretty much at it's lowest, the fact that he won't answer a single direct question about why he's so blatently ignoring Empking actually doing what he's accused me of doing doesn't mesh at all with my experience with him. Wanted to get you back into the game and involved to try and even up the numbers. Want to put out more content for DV and shos to evaluate to hopefully force them to step back from the cliff they've placed themselves on.

Like I said, I'll claim if none of that works but we're not under a hot deadline here and I think it's more than fair that I get a little time before resorting to that.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'mma derpity derp derpp

Figured out I'm town? Not too late to unvote and salvage the day.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

What? No. It's true D:

I'm the derpiest

Wisdom, I'd just like to point out that one of your points is that some players who have died suspected me and that some current town reads do. This really the sort of town read that you think should be followed?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Alone, no. Combined with plenty other scummy stuff, yes. It has its value.

While I have your attention why is Empking getting a free pass from you in regards to "hasn't done anything all game?"

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Not a free pass, I just think you're scummier.

Really? Have you been critical of Empking even once this game?

HEY! D:<

You're voting for a town player for no logical reason as far as I can tell, give me a reason not to dismiss you.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The more you post, the more confident I am in my vote. It's like you're scum trying to push everyone away from you.
Then the whole claim thing just seems a little odd o.o

And if I was playing nicey-nice I'd be accused of sucking up and pandering; I know how this game is played. You've got a convenient conclusion so you'll make the facts fit however you like. Reality is that my back is against the wall so I have nothing to lose and don't need to play nicey-nice, I can just speak straight up truth to power.

Sure the claim thing is odd, but odd doesn't mean scum, odd means different.

Trust me slimer, if you unvote I won't make a fool out of you. Just go back and look at my play compared to Empking and I think it'll be obvious who really is scum of the two of us. I might be wrong sometimes and I might be snotty and sarcastic other times but my actions are clearly motivated from a town place in wanting to get this ride. Empking is just sliding along to whatever is convenient and easy because no one called him on it during the first two days.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I don't know...

Though it's true that your posts really are town and emp's are rather useless at times... But I feel more confident on your flip than Emps. It's true that I've been poked around by wisdom a lot, but this one is my own..

However it's a tie between emp and DDD. I haven't felt this hyped in a game since 3 days ago when I helped lynch a Mafia all on my own xD
But srsly idk Dx

Come on now; don't get invested in the wrong decision just because it's your wrong decision. It sounds like you know that all the evidence points towards reality: that I'm town and that Empking is probably scum. Well it's time to put aside the irritation with my sometimes colorful choices in argument and tone and instead invest in being right. You don't get points after the game for directing mislynches (unless you're scum, you aren't scum are you?), if we want to win this game then we need to get it right and that means unvoting me at the very least right now and probably taking down Empking.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD. He didn't do anything though. But seeing as how there was no night kill, the results speak for themselves

How does your ability

exactly

work again?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Should we consider a no lynch and massclaim tomorrow?

This is a good point, if we massclaim today we're pretty much taking no lynch off the table for today because we have to act upon the massclaim.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD, why do you dodge claiming so much?

I dodged claiming yesterday because in that situation a claim is a permission slip to lynch; scum don't want to hammer without a claim and town are afraid they might lose valuable information, but if you claim then it becomes very easy for someone to say "he's lying" and cast the hammer. I am not dodging claiming today and if we're massclaiming I'll claim and claim first no issues there but I want to make sure that massclaim is the right play today and that's what we're going to do before I do claim.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

VOTE: no lynch Anyone new voting for me at this point should probably be considered scum since MC or NL are the sensible plays. Typing this on a tablet not at my place VLA through the holiday.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

This DDD... Always scummy.

Full town neighbourhood... Damn.

A distinct possibility that you entirely discounted to badger me the last two/three days becuase you're still playing a one dimensional game and completely ignoring the way I was throwing off all my town tells and crafted my play to try and replicate our last game despite the fact that my play in newbie games is usually completely different from theme games. Evidence should lead to conclusions, you clearly had the conclusion you liked and crafted all evidence to support that conclusion.

That being said I was calling something like Wisdom, AV, shos at the end so I was completely unable to read anyone this game beyond reading Seanald correctly as retard-town and I absolutely never would've lynched slimer so that sucked.

Before anyone says anything about me shooting in MYLO I sent this to syndrome with my first shot, "I know this is the "wrong" play, you shouldn't vig headed into likely LYLO because if I'm wrong the game is over. However, if just one of Seanald, Wisdom, or Slimer is alive and town tomorrow they will vote for me and we will lose the game, I'd say the odds of that happening is extremely high. The only chance that I have is to nail scum and immediately claim the kill; that'll either force scum to counterclaim me and get lynched because my case will actually make sense or make me unlynchable because even if they think I'm an SK they can't lynch me or scum win. Of course with my success rate at making kills it seems likely we'll be in 7p LYLO tomorrow anyways."