Mini 1392: Social Justice Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #37 (isolation #0) » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:25 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Checking in. Read last two pages.

In post 32, Zajnet wrote:I don't generally read the existing posts before I post my first RVS vote.

I really don't care one way or the other about flavor-claims, in this game or in general.

I don't like this bit as it feels like feigned indifference in response to the fairly significant discussion on the matter.


In post 13, SereneStorm wrote:Hello everybody <3

VOTE: DeltaWave Hehehe ;) :D

And I am allergic to moderator deuce droppings, just so you know :P

Please don't modkill me <3

In post 36, DeltaWave wrote:DeltaWave (1): SereneStorm

That seems kind of interesting, unless the mod is just fucking with us.

I recall a large theme, I believe hosted by reckamonic, where the host was actually a player or something as well. If I can remember what game it was or find a link later, I will, unless the host can confirm that this is mostly just a joke, in which case I will ignore it.


Nothing to really say on the qwints wagon at the moment. I agree with the oddity of ignoring the elephant in the room regarding flavor claiming, but I'm not going to vote him since he is L-2 already. I'll vote my primary suspicion for the time being until this develops further.

Vote:Zajnet



I
think
the only person I have remotely any experience with on the player list is BloodCovenent, and only once in
[REDACTED - ONGOING GAME].
I mostly play large theme games, but have been getting kind of burnt out on them.
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Post Post #48 (isolation #1) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:37 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 42, AngryPidgeon wrote:Could you try any harder to look like you are doing something? "I don't have anything to say about the qwints wagon"..
I tried pretty damn hard to say something other than, "hey, checking in," in the first place.

So, what did you learn from your qwints wagon, if anything?
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Post Post #52 (isolation #2) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:09 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 49, AngryPidgeon wrote:That if you are scum, Qwints probably isn't since you are trying to give me credit for the wagon.

You have a pretty big ego if you think I said you should have credit for the wagon, nor do I see the relevance of
if
you actually being responsible for the wagon makes qwints town if I am scum.
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Post Post #96 (isolation #3) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:21 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 91, SereneStorm wrote:Come to think of it, is there no Mafia night here? I noticed that days are 2 weeks long, but don't recall anything about how long the nights last. If there is only twilight, then I don't make any sense talking about Mafia speaking at night. Perhaps I need to do some homework and read about games here within this forum. Guess I didn't think it would be much different.

This looks like serious attempts at damage control.

Unvote;
Vote: SereneStorm
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Post Post #100 (isolation #4) » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:05 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 98, DeltaWave wrote:Nights last five days unless there are extenuating circumstances
That seems kinda... long.
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Post Post #121 (isolation #5) » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:21 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 113, Shamrock wrote:1. You are trying to lynch a newbie for semantics, how is that not scum motivated?
2. Your argument makes no sense - why would she not know there were nights if she was scum?

Serene has stated she is not a newbie to mafia, and has even referenced knowing the mod at the very least. Her post about not knowing if there were not night phases is complete damage control to remove doubt as to whether she slipped or not. She is also appealing that her site newbie status should buy her lenience.
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Post Post #159 (isolation #6) » Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:30 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Is VC wrong, or is xvart double voter? His series of posts had him voting for Buck before an unvote, but then he unvoted and voted Buck again. Just want to clear up mod error or not.

In post 139, qwints wrote:Toogeloo, are you still convinced that SS scumslipped?

To be clear, I was never really thinking about the slip or not. I was more interested in the damage control post of #91. That post sent off all sorts of bells and whistles that Serene was trying to make the slip seem like it was an actual thought process error and blow smoke in our faces to distract from it even being a slip in the first place. And yes, I still have a hard time believing it to be true. Anyone who has backed Serene's lynch has been attacked by her at this point as well, she is trying to discredit or vilify all of her attackers.
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Post Post #220 (isolation #7) » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:23 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Serene over-reacting to qwints doesn't give me "noobtown" vibes that everyone else seems to be getting. "Noobscum" I can definitely see though.

I don't see scum play from qwints or xvart that are garnering them vote leader status either, they seem pretty genuine to me.


Vote stays on Serene, but I will also vote for Zajnet due to sketchy play that I dislike from that slot as well.
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Post Post #269 (isolation #8) » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:39 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 250, Shamrock wrote:
In post 220, Toogeloo wrote:Serene over-reacting to qwints doesn't give me "noobtown" vibes that everyone else seems to be getting. "Noobscum" I can definitely see though.


Explain why you think this please

I will also vote for Zajnet due to sketchy play that I dislike from that slot as well.


Explain this please

I've gotten scum vibes fromm SS since the post I consider damage control. It seems lile she kists like shouting at everyone now, probably because the bigger scene she nakes, the more likely she is to get brushed off.


Zajnet was my first suspicion and has given me no reaaon to believe the slot town in the leaat.
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Post Post #274 (isolation #9) » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:03 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 37, Toogeloo wrote:Checking in. Read last two pages.

In post 32, Zajnet wrote:I don't generally read the existing posts before I post my first RVS vote.

I really don't care one way or the other about flavor-claims, in this game or in general.

I don't like this bit as it feels like feigned indifference in response to the fairly significant discussion on the matter.


And, as I said, he hasn't done anything that makes me feel he has town in the 3 or 4 posts he's made since then.
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Post Post #279 (isolation #10) » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:33 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 275, Shamrock wrote:So your second strongest scumread is based on something that happened on page 2?

Yes.


Can I ask... are you lazy, or just slow? It seems you could have understood all this from a simple ISO of my posts.
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Post Post #281 (isolation #11) » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:14 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

And I guess for you it was the latter.
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Post Post #289 (isolation #12) » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:42 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

I'm sorry, I didn't realize reads from page 2 are invalid after the game reaches a certain point.
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Post Post #291 (isolation #13) » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:57 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Probably because at the moment, I really don't. It's Day 1, with 12 pages, and most of the arguments made are all just blatant mud slinging.

Most the players are pretty null, though I have 1 or 2 people I feel could be town, and I have my 1 or 2 that I would prefer to lynch because of gut vibes, angels and devils on my shoulder, and my old knee injury acting up.
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Post Post #299 (isolation #14) » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:59 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 292, DeltaWave wrote:Fun Fact: More frequent vote counts means less fuck ups
In post 298, xvart wrote:Mod: Shamrock's vote isn't on the last votecount.
LOL
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Post Post #332 (isolation #15) » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:26 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 309, Shamrock wrote:Toogeloo is scummy for showing no interest in updating/developing his reads in reaction to any events, he is just sticking with the reads that (if he is scum) he has pre-decided on from the beginning. The fact that Zajnet is his #2 scumread for an inconsequential post made on page 2, yet he has no interest in any posts Zajnet has made since then, does not look townish.

Because Zajnet has posted nothing noteworthy since my suspicion on him developed.

As far as the "other" events, as I said, most of it is just blatant mud-slinging. AngryPidgeon jumps wagons like a fat kid jumps on cakes, malp thinks he has a meta read on AP, xvart is trying to lead (poorly), Iron is tunneling Serene for site meta, grey is playing the "this is my alt" card. All of this is pretty stupid, but none of it has jumped up and down in my gut screaming, "THAT GUY IS SCUM!" like the two reasons I feel Zajnet and Serene did.


I have literally seen NO reason to move my vote yet because this is just a "who can yell the loudest," game at the moment.
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Post Post #344 (isolation #16) » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:50 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 340, Tajun wrote:This post rubs me the wrong way, as he is not really under pressure, and yet goes out of his way to justify his actions. Town read fading.
Shamrock has been toting his pitchfork in my direction for several pages now, painting me negatively. I was simply explaining how his misguided attacks are off base, and it's human nature to retort against their attackers, so when I see someone dirtying my name, of course I am going to explain how ignorant they are.

I am hardly worried about my state in the game, I never do anything without a strategy, regardless of alignment.
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Post Post #346 (isolation #17) » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:25 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Difference being I'm not making a scene of myself, while you seem to feel the more you post the better.
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Post Post #350 (isolation #18) » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:59 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 347, SereneStorm wrote:
In post 346, Toogeloo wrote:Difference being I'm not making a scene of myself, while you seem to feel the more you post the better.


I usually do top post counts, and care not how "you feel" about it. Don't mistake my feelings with your opinion of what you think mine are or ought to be. My point was you are contradicting yourself, and that looks scummy. What have you to say about that?

I'm not trying to vilify Shamrock, or turn the argument around on him. I simply called him ignorant.

You have tried to turn any argument on you as scummy, and you over defend yourself by flooding the topic and try to turn every argument around on your attackers, like you are trying to spin it positively for you and negatively for anyone who voted for you or called you out.
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Post Post #358 (isolation #19) » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:48 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 352, SereneStorm wrote:Why do you think I should excuse you for doing such things that fall under the same category of the things that you have accused me of looking scummy for doing?
You do realize that I voted you not because you are verbose, but because you tried to backtrack on how mafia have night talk, right? It's not like I think talkative and defensive players are scummy, but I do believe that you talk more to eventually get some semblance of reason into the game that people will listen to.

The more a person talks, the more likely someone will actually find something to believe.

Of course people are going to defend themselves, it's kind of important to the game, but you seem to have taken it to a whole new level by triple posting walls and addressing each and every person who had something to say about your slot. Early in the game, that does come off a bit too defensive, and seeing as the nature of you getting upset was over offsite meta and whether or not you had inside info, it makes me even more suspicious of you considering I didn't like your damage control in the first place. There is a point where you cross a line in over-defending your position.
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Post Post #363 (isolation #20) » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:02 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 361, SereneStorm wrote:
In post 358, Toogeloo wrote:
In post 352, SereneStorm wrote:Why do you think I should excuse you for doing such things that fall under the same category of the things that you have accused me of looking scummy for doing?
You do realize that I voted you not because you are verbose, but because you tried to backtrack on how mafia have night talk, right? It's not like I think talkative and defensive players are scummy, but I do believe that you talk more to eventually get some semblance of reason into the game that people will listen to.

The more a person talks, the more likely someone will actually find something to believe.

Of course people are going to defend themselves, it's kind of important to the game, but you seem to have taken it to a whole new level by triple posting walls and addressing each and every person who had something to say about your slot. Early in the game, that does come off a bit too defensive, and seeing as the nature of you getting upset was over offsite meta and whether or not you had inside info, it makes me even more suspicious of you considering I didn't like your damage control in the first place. There is a point where you cross a line in over-defending your position.


I didn't back track anything, I pedaled forward and explained exactly where I am coming from, which really isn't hard to see. I already made my point that I do not play according to the rules of the book, perhaps I am nothing like what you are used to, but that doesn't make any difference to me. I did not address each and every single person that had something to say about my slot. I was not upset about being asked for my meta, I was rather amused at the opportunity not to cooperate. Initially your argument against me was what you considered back tracking to cover a so-called slip as damage control, but your argument would not hold because it is plain to see I did not slip, I spelled it out clear as day, and so you have ventured on to find something else about me that you would like to call scummy in which you have started to contradict yourself in attacking my manner and verboseness, of the which the same things can be said of you, therefore I used your own words against you. So the conclusion of the matter is that it is not my manner and verboseness that seems scummy to you because the same thing can be said of you, so then you are left with the original argument from the beginning of the game as you are doing with Zajnet, that you think that I am scum because you believe that I backtracked. And you have nothing to say about any further developments. I think it is hard to try to scum hunt when you are really not town, and I think that is what your problem is, you don't want to go along with those that seem to be protown, which look to be on other scum, as those would be your teammates, so your are stuck with lame reasoning for thinking I and Zajnet are scum.
Do you just make things up as you go? I feel like I'm watching my Cousin Vinny or something.
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Post Post #366 (isolation #21) » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:11 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 364, The Rufflig wrote:
In post 309, Shamrock wrote:Toogeloo is scummy for showing no interest in updating/developing his reads in reaction to any events, he is just sticking with the reads that (if he is scum) he has pre-decided on from the beginning. The fact that Zajnet is his #2 scumread for an inconsequential post made on page 2, yet he has no interest in any posts Zajnet has made since then, does not look townish.


Ok, Toogeloo has had more than enough time to respond to this. I'm not entirely pleased with Toogeloo having only 1 suspect with his reasoning or that such a read came in as his number 2 scum choice. No, Toogeloo hasn't developed this read further; at the time this whole argument came up, Zajnet hadn't made a noteworthy post since page 3. Zajnet has made 1 lackluster post since then. So, I'd have to say that Toogeloo not developing his read further on Zajnet isn't an argument that carries any weight with me.

But...

I did respond to it.

In post 332, Toogeloo wrote:
In post 309, Shamrock wrote:Toogeloo is scummy for showing no interest in updating/developing his reads in reaction to any events, he is just sticking with the reads that (if he is scum) he has pre-decided on from the beginning. The fact that Zajnet is his #2 scumread for an inconsequential post made on page 2, yet he has no interest in any posts Zajnet has made since then, does not look townish.

Because Zajnet has posted nothing noteworthy since my suspicion on him developed.

As far as the "other" events, as I said, most of it is just blatant mud-slinging. AngryPidgeon jumps wagons like a fat kid jumps on cakes, malp thinks he has a meta read on AP, xvart is trying to lead (poorly), Iron is tunneling Serene for site meta, grey is playing the "this is my alt" card. All of this is pretty stupid, but none of it has jumped up and down in my gut screaming, "THAT GUY IS SCUM!" like the two reasons I feel Zajnet and Serene did.


I have literally seen NO reason to move my vote yet because this is just a "who can yell the loudest," game at the moment.
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Post Post #372 (isolation #22) » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:03 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 369, AngryPidgeon wrote:Toogeloo, what do you find scummy about SS right now?

I'm probably a bit tunnel-visioned on SS at the moment. Kinda stuck in my ways. All the reasons I hate SS have already been listed, and I've beaten them to death.

In post 369, AngryPidgeon wrote:Your vote is parked on someone that (is probably town) is probably not getting lynched today.

Fine...

Unvote



Of the popular suspects, I'd probably lynch malpascp. He's trying a bit too hard with his posts, like the meta thing with AP, regurgitating the "SS is obv-town" sentiment, and his interpretation of the thread. He's on V/LA at the moment, but even outside of that, he does appear to be trying to skate through with minimal content. I get the impression that Iron Crue is just intentionally acting like an idiot, and his play doesn't seem like something scum think is smart to just do, so I am more hesitant to back that lynch, but he is just as useless with his posts as malp is, just without the added effort I get from malp. xvart was one of only a handful of people I was getting a town vibe from; he actually seems intent on his reads, like he truly believes what he is posting, and I wouldn't pursue him as a lynch.
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Post Post #432 (isolation #23) » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:02 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 427, DeltaWave wrote:
The artist formerly known as Iron Crue is now known as greygnarl.

I had no idea they were the same person. I was reading them as separate entities.
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Post Post #466 (isolation #24) » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:16 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Let's test then.

Vote: greygnarl
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Post Post #475 (isolation #25) » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:25 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 467, SereneStorm wrote:People, do you know whether your roles are white or non-white? I feel so racist :(

My role PM does include "Whte Cis," which I suppose could mean "White Citizen."
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Post Post #480 (isolation #26) » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:30 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Ok, so a protective role of this nature in scums hands seems OP in scum hands. Two town vs. One scum LyLo can't win, right?

Unvote


Let's discuss for now.
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Post Post #484 (isolation #27) » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:32 pm

Post by Toogeloo »


That's funny, because my role flavor says I like the rainbow.
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Post Post #487 (isolation #28) » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:34 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 485, SereneStorm wrote:Rainbow as in gay?

No.
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Post Post #494 (isolation #29) » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:38 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 491, SereneStorm wrote:Toog, can you please put you vote back on Obama's phone lady?

You dont think his role is OP in LyLo as scum? I'd like more input on this first.
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Post Post #496 (isolation #30) » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:39 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Ugh, now you are adding Miller on ?Maybe I
should
revote <_>.
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Post Post #564 (isolation #31) » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:08 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

I can't see scum going through the effort to discredit AP by fishing through old games to break the meta argument. qwnts seems town to me. Based on the last few.pages, my opinion of greygnarl's role, and the overall behavior of both slots, I still want a Serene lynch for the crackpot theories and terrible pushes, but could also go for an AP lynch for the jumping all over the place and bashing the hard work pf people who have put in the effrt to discredit him.

Vote: AngryPidgeon


I've chosen AP because I don't like how he's been dumping on their flavor of the day lynch, and getting way too defensive over being called out (legitly). His position on meta has been successfully refuted, and I can't read his word as being the stronger town read.
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Post Post #565 (isolation #32) » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:10 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Dumping = jumping


Posting from smart phone
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Post Post #569 (isolation #33) » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:21 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Your stance was successfully counter argued by the efforts of qwint, and considering the work he went through to prove it, I'll believe him over you.
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Post Post #570 (isolation #34) » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:22 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

He basically showed proof, and all your defense was "nuh-uh, you cherry picked that."
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Post Post #575 (isolation #35) » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:31 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

I'm not voting you for the meta, just so you know. I'm voting you because I don't like your play this game with the vote hops and being discredited, but arguing like it doesn't matter. I like qwints as town, so it reinforces my belief.

Serene is still just saying some of the worst commentary, and I would love to see her gone as well.
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Post Post #593 (isolation #36) » Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:18 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 576, SereneStorm wrote:Shut up Toogeloo, enjoy your vacation.

I have an idea... let's just target the two most active people and lynch them :roll:

Yeah, I'm in Southern California for a family vacation (Disneyland, Seaworld, San Diego Zoo, etc.) another week still. Just my Smart Phone to keep me up to date.

Why do you think a more active person should not be a lynch target though? Do you feel activity is an indicator of towniness?
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Post Post #775 (isolation #37) » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:49 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 751, Shamrock wrote:#749 is a post by caught scum

Agreed, I'm starting to get that frustrated scum feeling from AP that he knows he's caught scum, but got to that point undeservingly. Also, I thought it was fairly interesting that at the end of his double posts he told us to vote qwints and then tomorrow he would gladly walk himself out. Slip?

What I'm more wondering is if AP and SS are scum together, because I have a hard time seeing two scum buddies so openly defending each other on Day 1.

SS is so bad though.
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Post Post #777 (isolation #38) » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:59 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

I think qwints is town. I don't see scum going through any amount of effort to try and show past game experience to bury someone.

I am more inclined to think you are scum over SS, and that SS is just awful. Her posts asking to be lynched and even tempting us by saying "I could be Mafia," are what I really hate about her play currently, but in general, she just doesn't put a lot of thought into her psots and it's more like she just vomits her current impressions into a post and hits Submit. Meanwhile, your posts seem a lot more calculated, and I find that you are basically trying to throw your weight around. And I have to agree that it seems more like you are just trying to be a presence instead of actually hunt.

As for grey, I will admit the only thing that has me backed off him at the moment is his role itself. While his play has been lackluster, and I don't entirely connect the dots of how "The Obamaphone Lady" is a role that protects itself from lynch or White people or whatever, I still have a hard time seeing it as a scum role.

I still don't care much for Zajnet, but he has become pretty much an after-thought in this game at this point. Shamrock, Tajun, and qwints are probably my strongest town reads at the moment, though I remember having a town read on another slot, it just escapes me as to who at the moment. Been a busy week.
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Post Post #790 (isolation #39) » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:16 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Koom-bai-yah and all that shit.
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Post Post #809 (isolation #40) » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:42 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

You need the Title Fairy to give you something other than Mafia Scum, and it has to be nominated to you from other players and generally well represents how peopl. e see you on MS. Generally, only the most prolific personalities get a new title.

As much as I would support a Zajnet lynch, his would be one of the least informative we get, so I juat don't see it happening. malp would be the safe lynch for today, but would only be slightly more informative than Zaj. AP, SS, and grey probably provide the most info. Those are the only names I will consider today, though I heavily favor AP or SS.

qwints actually dug for past game relevance in regards to his case on AP. This is what gives me the town vibe on him. If he was just attempting to sheep and is scum, I dont think digging for past game evidence would have been how he would have gone about it.

Tajun seemed pretty pro-town early on, so I'm giving the PGO claim benefit of the dount for now.

xvart was a town read early due to his walls and much of his early opinions seemed amiable to my reads as well. He's since kind of sunk into lurk mode, so my confidence is't as great as it once was. Shamrock has taken up probably my strongest town read since then.

Pretty much everyone else is null to me.


SS, for what reason do you think your lynch would be informative? One thing you keep stating is that we should lynch you as it would make the game more informative on who to lynch down the line. You keep asking about race and political affiliation as well. The paranoid side of me senses you fishing for info to set up something, so I'd like to hear your motivations as to how these questions help you. And why bait us to lynch you by stating your flip will be informative and even tempt us by saying you could be Mafia? Even the way you say, "your team," seems fishily enigmatic.

AP, with such a short time to deadline, do you feel it prudent to claim, or would you take your role with you to death if you had to?
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Post Post #819 (isolation #41) » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:18 am

Post by Toogeloo »

SS, are you just trolling now? Is that part of your meta? You didn't answer my questions at all.

Where were you going with asking for race and political affiliation? How does that help YOU with your scum hunting? How does that help YOUR TEAM (I would hope town, but it's you saying it) find scum after your death? Why do you want to be lynched, and why are you baiting us by claiming the possibility of being Mafia?
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Post Post #820 (isolation #42) » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:25 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Also, something that occured to me while I was sleeping is that grey could be scum if the scum team is slughtly under-manned/under-powered, but I would have to assume his power would be negated at LyLo/MyLo.

Iwould still have reservations on it however because in a game requiring numbers to secure a lynch, getting that extra vote still punishes town trying to correctly lynch scum.
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Post Post #838 (isolation #43) » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:16 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Serene, what is your flavor (paraphrased)? Why exactly is Romney in the game according to your flavor?

You don't have to say your role, just the flavor. Social Injustice being the theme, I'd like to know what puts you here.
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Post Post #946 (isolation #44) » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:21 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 931, The Rufflig wrote:I'm guessing defender may be bodyguard, but there is no way to tell for certain.
In post 932, AngryPidgeon wrote:I would speculate Bodyguard if anything.

I'd ask you guys the same question AP asked GG, why do you feel it more likely to be Bodyguard than Doctor? Do you think Konowa wasn't the night kill, but ended up taking the night kill by protecting the right person?


In post 926, Antihero wrote:Alright, we're never lynching whoever's taking xvart's slot.

Why do you say this? Wasn't it just referenced a couple posts prior that xvart was one of Konowa's main suspects? What clears xvart/Rev from no longer being a lynch candidate?
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Post Post #949 (isolation #45) » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:22 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Role Message Madness, har har.
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Post Post #952 (isolation #46) » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:29 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 951, The Rufflig wrote:I'll even add to my argument - I don't think there is a doctor in the game because of the role of the day 1 lynch - which also precluded me from thinking that there would be a vig shot last night.

Do you think a Vig and PGO can co-exist in a game of 13?
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Post Post #963 (isolation #47) » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:45 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Far too much speculation over Konowa to work with.

There is no telling what "Defender" is, but for those of you who think it's Bodyguard, then you can't honestly justify his reads as a reason he was killed since he could have either been shot directly or been killed guarding someone. His scum list is pretty synonymous with MANY other people's scum lists. All 3 of malp, Zajnet, and xvart got more than their fair share of eyebrow raises during Day 1 by at least half the players here that saying Konowa was NK'd for suspecting them seems a bit of a reach to me. It may be possible he hit on something else that drew the NK, but I doubt it was his suspect list.


However, I am more cautiosly aware of the people who immediately jump to the Bodyguard conclusion because these people might already know that they shot at someone else and that person didn't die, so it's easy to sound like you are thinking about role spec. Rufflig came to the idea first, but AP was right behind, and either could have been trying to earn a little speculation cred.

I also asked about whether Ruff believed a Vig could co-exist with a PGO, because I wouldn't rule out the possibility that Defender is a Doc type even and he stopped the kill, but was possibly vig'd by a second kill. As it has been mentioned, Konowa wasn't exactly a town read for many people either.
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Post Post #965 (isolation #48) » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:31 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

I think greygnarl is town. I also think he's lazy.

I also don't feel you are in any position to criticize a player on how much or little they have read considering you've stated you haven't read the whole thread thoroughly.
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Post Post #986 (isolation #49) » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:03 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 966, AngryPidgeon wrote:@Toogeloo, could you summarize your reads for me?


TOWN

grey
was neutral yesterday due to his general content and play, but I just have a hard time seeing his role as scum sided. He is a detriment to scum if he is town too, since he is one less mislynch at LyLo, which means that they actually have to take care of him before then or be stuck with arguing lynches against whoever else is there, so if he is town, I don't think Rev has anything to worry about with him making it to LyLo. I could be wrong, and if it's a 3 scum team, then he very well could be a tipping point for the balance, however, I adamantly refuse to believe this because town should NEVER be punished for choosing a correct lynch, and even a +1 modifier like this on a scum role is just totally borked against town.

Meanwhile,
qwints
is still someone I read as town because of the way he presents his arguments. His reasonings and the way he has gone about them seem too much like work for someone of scum alignment to do, like actually fishing for examples of AP meta from past games.

Sham
is pretty much still a town read all around from his general play on Day 1.

SCUM

I still kind of want to lynch
AP
because of his jumping around all day and general fishiness. People who think he's town only give reasons as being that he is active, which I don't understand as being plausible defenses for towniness. AP was all over the place yesterday while ignoring the elephant in the room on several topics, like SS's total troll behavior at the end of the day which was a HUGE topic of conversation, and he generally ignored people asking him why he was defending SS so hard, simply writing off all questions as SS just town-telling. His reads were generally weak and it's like he just jumped on the flavor of the day for whatever seemed to possibly get some momentum train wise.

It's hard for me to continue pushing
Zajnet (now Antihero)
at this point with so little to work on, but he (or rather his replacement) are still on my lynch list since what I they did post from yesterday is still enough for me to dislike the slot in general.

I feel like
malpascp
should really have been the lynch for the day yesterday since he is on EVERYONE's lynch list. Thing is, he had almost no pressure yesterday, and he should probably have been yesterday's lynch. He was at L-2 for a short bit, and then everyone jumped ship and he was completely forgotten about before he even had to claim or anything. Since he was forgotten about, practically nothing would have been learned from his lynch. I think we probably should still heavily consider this slot for today, or we are going to quickly find him at endgame, and I feel he would be the biggest detriment for that of the all the players remaining.

NULL

Tajun
has kind of dropped down my list from town to null, as he has more or less dropped off the map content-wise. Rereading through his posts from Day 1 during the Night Phase, I actually found that he was mostly just agreeing with reads of other players, kind of pot-shotting his own reads by piggy-backing off of comments others made. What I'm hesitant about in calling this scummy weak content activity is that he claimed PGO, which seems kind of unnecessary from a scum perspective, unless he was super powerful and just wanted to avoid being scanned or something, still, I would assume just acting pro-town (which he more or less was doing early on) would generally be enough to keep a scanner off your back, so it seems like an unnecessary risk to claim PGO as scum since any number of setup issues can come of it.

Other notable null reads are pretty much everyone else.
Jal
slot is hard to keep track of since it's multiple replacements.
xvart (now Reverend)
was an early town read, then dropped to null from Day 1. Reverend however is starting to give me town vibes after his retraction from grey. I would feel as if scum would continue to push that slot (since let's face it, grey is an easy push for many people) instead of completely back off after reading some meta on the player from other games. I really have no read what-so-ever on
Rufflig
.
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Post Post #987 (isolation #50) » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:05 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 969, Shamrock wrote:
In post 963, Toogeloo wrote:However, I am more cautiosly aware of the people who immediately jump to the Bodyguard conclusion because these people might already know that they shot at someone else and that person didn't die, so it's easy to sound like you are thinking about role spec. Rufflig came to the idea first, but AP was right behind, and either could have been trying to earn a little speculation cred.


What is this, who gives town cred for setup spec?

Not town cred.

Contribution cred. It's fairly difficult to come up with content for scum at times, but setup spec is easy to make yourself look like you are contributing without actually doing much of anything at all.
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Post Post #1009 (isolation #51) » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:05 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 999, AngryPidgeon wrote:Re Toog's Malp read: I actually don't see where Toog mentioned Malp ever D1. Why the sudden desire to lynch Malp, Toog?
In post 809, Toogeloo wrote:As much as I would support a Zajnet lynch, his would be one of the least informative we get, so I juat don't see it happening.
malp would be the safe lynch for today, but would only be slightly more informative than Zaj.
AP, SS, and grey probably provide the most info.
Those are the only names I will consider today
, though I heavily favor AP or SS.

malp has been low priority since he is ridiculously lurkish that pressuring him in any way is pointless, especially with many people on this town very happily switching wagons on a whim. I would happily lynch him (and yeah, it'd probably be equivalent to a policy lynch as to why), but voting him really hasn't done us any amount of good because A) he doesn't show up to respond to the pressure, and B) yesterday was pretty much wagon hopping until deadline hit us in the face.

Serious concerns are that I see this type of activity frequently, especially from town players. In almost every game, at least one player or more just doesn't give a rat's ass about playing, and they lurk through the entire thing. Last game I played, the final mislynch where scum won was a town member who had less posts on Day 8 than the town player that was Night Killed on Night 1. So how do we know malp isn't just pulling the "I don't give a shit," card? Most of his posts from Day 1 are actually pretty bad, and considering we still have at the very least 1 mislynch to play with in a Power Heavy game, I'm willing to gamble if I had to. If malp is town, he is definitely going to be carried to the end game if scum can get away with it.


Unlike AP, I don't just throw my vote around callously. I use it to show that I pretty much mean business and that is what I want to lynch. I will adjust my reads and update them as I see fit, but I do make sure that if something changes, it isn't willy-nilly.


As for Tajun suggesting SS target him, a scum could very easily gamble on this, especially given the little amount of time left in the day. Had SS taken the deal, what are the odds that SS would actually "test" herself on Tajun? Would ANY town member take that deal? Do you see yourself more powerful of a role than to just test a PGO claim? How do we even know it would work as planned? Maybe Tajun is Scum Roleblocker and blocked SS from visiting, then what do we have for Day 2? WIFOM.
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Post Post #1012 (isolation #52) » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:14 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

What if Scum has an extra shot in their arsenal? If they would have shot SS last night, would it have made Tajun conftown through the end of the game?
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Post Post #1043 (isolation #53) » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:36 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1041, The Rufflig wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: greygnarl

I'm pretty sure that greygnarl has lied about his role. I've got a number of points to state here.

1) gg asks for everyone to claim there race here because his role has something to do with it.
2) The mod has been revealing race in the flips, so yes, there probably is at least one power that works on it.
3) Here gg states that his power makes him harder to lynch - but he is unsure if race has anything to do with it. So why hasn't he asked the mod to clear up how his power works? For that matter, if he can't target anyone then knowing what race the people voting for him are becomes irrelevant.
4) In that same post he claims the name of his power is a two word law that begins with the letters A A. Affirmative Action presumably.
5) Affirmative Action is a double edged sword. IRL, AA is frequently mentioned as reverse discrimination.
6) I suspect that GG's power can target someone else. If that character is black then that person becomes harder to lynch, but if that character is white then he becomes easier to lynch. Therefore, the true reason GG wanted to know the races was so he could predict how his power would affect individual players.


Makes no sense. We tested his claim on Day 1. He should have been lynched, but mod came in and confirmed he required one more vote. If he has to target people to use his power, he would never had had the opportunity since it was Day 1 and no Night phase had happened yet.

@malp: Either post a big ass fucking post in your next post about ALL your reads thus far, who is scum, who is town, or gtfo of the game... or be lynched, that works too.

Vote: malpascp
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Post Post #1079 (isolation #54) » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:18 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

I'd like to point out that the game opened with Pidgeon asking for flavor claims as well.
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Post Post #1097 (isolation #55) » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:43 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Todd Akin doesn't match anything related to PGO either, so flavor spec should be worthless.
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Post Post #1105 (isolation #56) » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:49 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1100, The Rufflig wrote:
In post 1097, Toogeloo wrote:Todd Akin doesn't match anything related to PGO either, so flavor spec should be worthless.

How about National Rifle Association endorses Todd Akin? (Google is my friend)

I'd *maaaaaaaaaaybe* accept that if Tajun hadn't told us he uses his *ahem* other barrel to kill with, ie. we're to assume the reason he shoots people is because of the rape comment or something I guess.
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Post Post #1134 (isolation #57) » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:17 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

If I hadn't made it clear before, I will state it again. There is no way that role is scum because it is far too OP and punishes town on their one weapon that should not be scumfucked with, the lynch. I'd consider just as bad as Scum Unlynchable and Scum Governor.

His role has now been proven
TWICE
, so it's not just a one time thing, and giving scum a role that adds +1 lynch modifier to another scum more than once is no different than just giving them the role, which again is borked against town. If his role was completely hidden until closer to LyLo, it would be even worse against town as a scum role as we would have even less chance of successfully lynching it.
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Post Post #1153 (isolation #58) » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:36 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Jal = Majiffy?
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Post Post #1171 (isolation #59) » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:36 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

I'm pretty much not moving my vote from malp given the options of players people want lynched at the moment. We only have a few more days before deadline.
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Post Post #1212 (isolation #60) » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:16 am

Post by Toogeloo »

We could at the very least have malp come in and confirm whether he was blocked or not.
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Post Post #1220 (isolation #61) » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:04 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1213, TheReverend wrote:lol, malp either got roleblocked by scum, roleblocked by town, or both are scum. qwints is hardly going to tell us he roleblocked someone who might step forward and call bullshit.

Believe it or not, there is a reason I would ask this though despite your commentary.
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Post Post #1222 (isolation #62) » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:06 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Malp can die any time. Someone hammer pl0x.
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Post Post #1259 (isolation #63) » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:04 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1257, TheReverend wrote:I think I was blocked. Qwints could be a scum roleblocker, ofc, but the pm I received led me to believe I was indeed roleblocked, so this claim looks honest.

Just to be clear, you were informed of being roleblocked?
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Post Post #1260 (isolation #64) » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:11 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Also, it might be necessary for you to clear up what makes you believe you may have been roleblocked. And trust me...
it's very, very, important.
I will explain after you respond.
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Post Post #1264 (isolation #65) » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:01 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Ok, so as promised...

I'm George Zimmerman, X-Shot Vigilante Neighborhood Watchman, White Cis
In post 484, Toogeloo wrote:

That's funny, because my role flavor says I like the rainbow.
Was a bit of a hint that I dropped for my role flavor since apparently I like skittles (or at least kill for some). I am at the very least a 1 shot, and at the very most unlimited. I will not say how many shots I have.

However...

I tried to shoot Tajun last night. Process that for a second.

I asked for a good portion of the beginning of the day whether a PGO and a Vig could co-exist in this set-up, and I didn't feel comfortable with it over the night phase. I wasn't sure what standing I was in with town, but I could at the very least remove Tajun as a suspect. If he is scum, then I look like a hero. If he was town, I remove us both from the equation.

Obviously, neither one of us is dead. The first thing I did when I saw the day come up was ask Delta if he announces whether a player is roleblocked, and he told me, "he does not report roleblocks to players (paraphrased)."

So...

Rev, I'm going to assume you
have
to get information back with your night action which means you are more than likely a scanner. May as well out with it if you are. But more importantly, if you were roleblocked, what stopped me from shooting Tajun? Obviously he was Doc protected as no Doc would risk protecting a PGO I assume unless they were feeling as ballsy as me last night. And if I did successfully visit Tajun, and he was PGO, then I'd be dead and he
should
be dead.

So, do we have
two
roleblockers and I was hit with the second? Or is Tajun not what he says he is and possibly bulletproof?
(Or if anyone wants to come up with a theory, by all means)
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Post Post #1265 (isolation #66) » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:04 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1264, Toogeloo wrote:Obviously he was Doc protected as no Doc would risk protecting a PGO

EBWOP: Obviously he
wasn't
Doc protected...
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Post Post #1266 (isolation #67) » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:09 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1263, quadz08 wrote:I like Rev's logicks.

Might just be me a bit paranoid, but, uh... did it really only take you 1 minute to read his post, interpret and concur with his logic, and post?
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Post Post #1279 (isolation #68) » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:36 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1275, TheReverend wrote:And yes, bulletproof does seem most likely. Protected by scum doctor is another option.

Protected by Scum Doctor seems kind of a stretch to me since Tajun's PGO claim should have been enough to keep Tajun from being shot or otherwise attacked. Their Doc would more than likely target another member I would think.

I thought I was the one roleblocked and waited for qwints to announce his target before I posted for the day, which is why I wanted clarification from you Rev that you absolutely thought you were roleblocked.


Tajun already gave flavor too.
In post 536, Tajun wrote:I am Todd Akin (Yup, town role, believe it or not). Also White CIS, if that matters.

I don't actually shoot people who come into my home, I use my, er, other barrel. Legitimately. :P

I doubt there is such a thing as a one shot PGO, but I am not one regardless.

What is a tad suspicious to me is AP making a bad argument to reinforce his prior beliefs. Scum often want to show conviction in their beliefs; using my claim to back it up with a weak argument strikes me as odd. Just a bit off really.


Flavor doesn't really match what I'd expect from Todd Akin since he never actually had anything to do with his "other barrel" but was more crucified for stating that forceful rape doesn't lead to pregnancy, or something along those lines. However, we were already meta-ing the Obamaphone Woman and how she gets AA treatment in this game, so I think meta-ing flavor in general was supposed to be a trap. I shot Tajun because of his lackluster play and my opinion of whether a PGO and a Vig exist together in a small game, not for his role flavor, fwiw.
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Post Post #1280 (isolation #69) » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:38 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1279, Toogeloo wrote:which is why I wanted clarification from you Rev that you absolutely thought you were roleblocked.

...well, that and since I had
just
asked the mod on how he handles PMing people about roleblocks, wanted to make sure you weren't lying as well.
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Post Post #1285 (isolation #70) » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:55 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1282, TheReverend wrote:Scum team looks like qwints, tajun and quadz right now, but quadz just because he's asking strange questions and neglecting to answer questions he doesn't like. Can we even be sure there's 3 mafia or could there be more? I'm basically assuming based on size of game.

3 Mafia is less than 25% of the player starting base, and seems a bit weak with a town player that requires more votes to be lynched. I'd say 3 Mafia exist if a third party exists as well, or 4 if not. It's possible Mafia have some very potent roles though, so they may be OP and running with 3.
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Post Post #1334 (isolation #71) » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:39 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

I see no reason to mass claim today. Scum have enough to worry about with the already claimed powers, town can probably still wreak a little havoc with the powers we have unclaimed. I'd guess at least one other scum outside of Tajun has already claimed too. Being Role Madness, there is a good chance that Scum can claim their actual roles, or at least slight variations of them.

The only thing I am worried about at this point is whether scum interfered with my shot and didn't claim it. But Tajun's posts today have been defeatist and simply saying "Lynch Toog after me," and "Good Luck town," posts. He wasn't banking on interference since his tone changed fairly quickly, and he isn't really scum hunting, but rather lining up lynches after he gets lynched, which he knows is happening. Just doesn't seem town minded at all, and I am fairly confident with a Tajun lynch at this point.

Vote: Tajun


Vote: Tajun
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Post Post #1335 (isolation #72) » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:40 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Not sure why it double voted there (posting from phone is hard I guess), but rest assured, I am not a double voter too.
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Post Post #1336 (isolation #73) » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:41 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Something else worth noting...

Tajun has openly called me and AP liars today, but hasn't voted for either of us yet.
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Post Post #1357 (isolation #74) » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:53 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Too many people with killing power ability in this game size if PGO is believed. I have Vig power, Tajun claims PGO, and Rufflig claims the ability to redirect (and has admitted to using that redirect to send scummy players to the claimed PGO).

Tajun has become ridiculously more active since being targeted for lynch, and of course he is in favor of any plan that saves him. He's still just shouting and not really scum hunting. He hasn't said WHY I am a lying piece of shit, and hasn't thought for himself as to why things are playing out as they are. He first mentioned possible interference after we all entertained the possibility, then he started ram-rodding the Toog is a liar schpiel after AP basically called him out on not calling me a liar. He is saying what people expect him to at this point, and anything he can do to prevent being lynched.

I cannot endorse your plan Rev, and I'd rather I be lynched to prove my vigness than allow us to stray from the obvious discrepancy of too much killing power in the game. Tajun (or I) needs to be lynched today, I stand firm to that.


As for choosing my target for kill (if I am not lynched) tonight. No. For one, you assume I have any shots left at all. Would a Vig with more shots suicide into a claimed PGO? For two, too much manipulation from scum possible since we are too close to a near 50-50 split. I will make my own choices with my night kill. You realize that I have thought qwints has been town since Day 1, so I don't endorse his lynch either.
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Post Post #1387 (isolation #75) » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:20 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Explain that to me Antihero. You target a player at night, but the ability you copy is random? What's the point of targeting a player?

Also, Tajun, why'd you go from wanting me to vig Antihero to wanting me to vig qwints?
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Post Post #1388 (isolation #76) » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:22 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Also, have you actually copied anything yet? Your role confuses me.
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Post Post #1403 (isolation #77) » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:33 am

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In post 1397, Konowa wrote:So I guess that tell on you was accurate, AP.

Toog, why the shot on me?

These long nights were actually a major bane to my play and I'm already one of the worst vigs in Mafia (as this game proves). I always want to try and vig my questionables and try to lynch my suspects.

I started Night 1 wanting to shoot AngryPidgeon. Then I convinced myself that I shouldn't do that, I should shoot malpascp since he was such a major distraction. The night being as long as it was, I found myself rereading through the game, and you seemed so in the background, so I decided to change my mind and shoot you instead just out of gut. Seriously, the long nights just totally fucked with my convictions on who to shoot.


Night 2 was the only night that I shot at the beginning of the night and forced myself to stay there. I really figured it was going to be win/win for town if I shot Tajun. I'm guessing he wasn't actually a PGO. Doctoring him shouldn't stop people from dying if they target him as a PGO.


Night 3 was my worst night. I think I went from wanting to shoot qwints to wanting to shoot quadz to wanting to shoot TheReverend to wanting to shoot Anti-Hero back to wanting to shoot TheReverend. And again, the long night just absolutely screwed with my head on who to shoot. I changed my mind so many times it was ridiculous. And the only reason I shot TheReverend was because I seriously thought my reads were so ass backwards this game that I was being manipulated by my town reads.
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Post Post #1421 (isolation #78) » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:46 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Just to give you anidea of how bad my aim is... I've never actually hit scum in three games as a vig.

My first game, I shot the town princess (unclaimed) which led to two night phases, one of which I shot the bodyguard.
My second game, I shot the miller night 1after and then the cop night 2.

Vig is by far my worst role, followed very closely by doc.

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