Mini 1405: The Simpsons Mafia (Game Over)

[D3f3nd3r]

VOTE: DoubleJD

The mod forgot the capital in my name. Maybe Double will lend me one of his?

[D3f3nd3r]

So...bastard game according to the queue page.

It seems clear who would be scum name-wise (Fat Tony and his guys, for example).

[D3f3nd3r]

I wasn't planning on getting into specifics with that unless people gave a damn. Apparently not yet.

Self-vote + RVS = either humorous, an error, or quite possibly a post restriction, knowing the bastardness.

[D3f3nd3r]

It was asking for opinion. If a lot of us wanted to name claim, why not?

I gave my bit on the self-vote stuff...I don't see why Klick hasn't posted since his self-vote.

[D3f3nd3r]

All games under my belt are normal or games with special mechanics (where all VTs get the same PM).

FYI, I recall Klick replacing into my Open 444 as Scum in early Day 1 (person being replaced-site flaked before the game). I don't think he did that.

[D3f3nd3r]

Lots of V/LAs.

FYI, Klick said in 32 that he self-voted during a challenge in a Mish Mash game that required almost constant attention.

[D3f3nd3r]

It was my way of saying that I'm not open for name claiming.

So now people say "No" by voting the person they're saying no to?

...

[D3f3nd3r]

Names can always suggest PRs, or even restrictions like One-Shot.

They don't always work, though.

I was semi-serious about name claiming: if we do, it's a double-edged sword, both sides benefit.

[D3f3nd3r]

I think we probably should, I just want to:
Get support/dissent
Weigh the positives and negatives

@Ruffig: I'm not getting your logic in 11.

[D3f3nd3r]

Post-Edit: Post 111, sorry.

[D3f3nd3r]

None of it. I just don't see WHY.

[D3f3nd3r]

Want reads? You got reads!

But first, about the name claim. I see this being mentioned/occurring in some past minis. I don't care what happens about it at this point...

Let's start off with Plessiez. He seems somewhat town. He's giving a lot of analysis, really working at people's nameclaim opinions. First half of 121 is a good example, but not about nameclaims.

Next, Rufflig. Definitely not as town as the others. You're not doing

that much

scumhunting (yet more than I am, admittedly). The best you've done are 56 and 97.

And Klick. Getting a bit of a townread from him, even through the lurking or inactivity he is doing. This is definitely not Open 444, where he was scum, and made over 60 posts in day one (he was vengekilled at lynch). Open 444 here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=23338

Zitfe, Mhork, and I all mentioned the nameclaim. We got varying degrees of crap about it, with me getting the most, Zitfe getting much less, and Mhork getting damn near nothing. Me I see, but why Zitfe over Mhork? Their suggestions came in 80 and 81, and dissent came in 82-85.

Secrets out. Ztife, i think you're scum unless this is like your 1st or 2nd theme. Its fairly common for scum to have fake claims from my understanding, so i dont see how your point about finding liars helps at all.

Especially you, Double.

[D3f3nd3r]

Just switch Klick and Rufflig then.

[D3f3nd3r]

Only part of 80 I meant was first few sentences of second paragraph, before he started talking about me.

[D3f3nd3r]

Prod dodge.

For someone who's got that size a wagon, Saulres doesn't seem all that scummy.

[D3f3nd3r]

Prod

Replacement dodge.

Fixed that for myself

Gonna be honest here: It looks like he was trying to trap Zitfe. I don't think ordering of names is a scumslip. Since, there's been better stuff

[D3f3nd3r]

UNVOTE

This was my reasoning:

I was voted for, according to Saulres, scumslipping. I, in a list of three names, listed a scummy target second. Apparently my wording is "how scum thinks." That doesn't seem that scummy, and I did them internally as Read 1 - Read 3 - Read 2

Read 1: Town

Next, Rufflig. Definitely not as town as the others. You're not doing

that much

scumhunting (yet more than I am, admittedly). The best you've done are 56 and 97.

Read 3: Town

I can see him overrreacting to my post as an "excuse" to trap another player.

[D3f3nd3r]

According to the "activity overview", Guille is V/LA through Thursday.

[D3f3nd3r]

Internally: I wrote them in that order.

I get a feeling that ordering them as Town-Town-Scum or Scum-Town-Town might be viewed as thinking, in Saulres's quote, "how scum thinks".

[D3f3nd3r]

Prod dodge.

[D3f3nd3r]

So...four votes on Guille.

Making a post but saving this so I don't get prodded.

[D3f3nd3r]

I don't see a HUGE amount of scumhunting (then again, neither do I) from him. I know, I thought I was gonna put more here, but I'll do some more other work.

Zitfe's claim: Set-up could definitely have two cops. I can see his role being a cop, but I also have a feeling that if so, he is not sane.

So, Zitfe, are you confirmed sane?

[D3f3nd3r]

Yeah, the NL is terrible. Chances are one will happen anyway.

[D3f3nd3r]

Baby Spice, still, that's not the reason to NL

VOTE: Baby Spice

L-1. I'd claim if I were you, because with under four hours left I don't think people would bother declaring intent to.

[D3f3nd3r]

Yeah.

He's not Flanders, I am.

My role has nothing to do with neighbors.

[D3f3nd3r]

There was a debate on Saulres's character name.

You thought it SHOULD be Flanders.

You thought wrong.

[D3f3nd3r]

Effectively, it was a "counterclaim."

[D3f3nd3r]

I might not be trusted enough for people to believe me saying "I doubt he's Flanders."

[D3f3nd3r]

It's not like my nameclaim (or anyone's) has been proven to be key to anything yet.

Whereas three hours earlier,

I wasn't planning on getting into specifics with that [my nameclaim idea] unless people gave a damn. Apparently not yet.

Now would be a good time.

--------------------------------

Zitfe's claim: Set-up could definitely have two cops.

Er. What? Nobody else is claiming Cop (unless this was a really weirdly written counter claim). Why are you talking about the possibility of two cops?

I mentioned that Zitfe was not guaranteed to be sane, and that Wiggum might be a slightly better cop by name than some guy whose flavor doesn't relate to it. There could be two cops. They could both be sane (unlikely). They could both be other, negative, sanities (less likely). One could be sane and one another sanity.

[D3f3nd3r]

I know.

Wiggum, which I am probably going to get some crap about for, was a thought for now, to clarify.

[D3f3nd3r]

Sanities.

Two insane or other negative sanity cops are probably okay to have together.

[D3f3nd3r]

V/LA through Tuesday.

[D3f3nd3r]

I don't see a HUGE amount of scumhunting

The irony of this, combined with the fact that 1/10 of his posts are prod dodges, and his level of activity elsewhere but not here -- has anyone played with D3f3nd3r before?

@D3f3nd3r

: Got any past games we could look at to see if your activity corresponds to your alignment?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=21855
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=22826
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=23989
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22308
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22472

In addition, finishing the sentence would be nice. Admitting to not doing scumhunting is better than lurking then saying "I'm hunting scum!"

[D3f3nd3r]

Saulres wagon is pretty bad.

[D3f3nd3r]

Saulres looks pretty townie to me.

And, regarding his 618, I was Town in Spartacus.

Just about everyone looks pretty townie to me, save maybe Mhork, but even he seems pretty null to me.

[D3f3nd3r]

When I read the game, I don't see much that strikes me as "scummy."

[D3f3nd3r]

Saulres is townier than Mhork.

Mhork is still pretty null though.

[D3f3nd3r]

Prod dodge.

Mentioned that Saulres wagon isn't good.

[D3f3nd3r]

That is all I have.

Thing about Saulres wagon being bad is because Saulres reads as town for me. Not "OMG we must lynch anyone who votes him" town, but more like "Yeah, not someone worth lynching."

I can see the point behind my wagon, but best of the three there is Mhork's.

[D3f3nd3r]

Best as in best lynch.

[D3f3nd3r]

Prod dodge.

I feel lost. I have no clue who to go for now.

I can tell that my days left alive are numbered, and it'd be better for town to take me out sooner than later.

[D3f3nd3r]

I wanted to do some quick VCA. So, I have the Day 1 lynch vote count here.

Baby Spice

(7) -

Ztife

, havingfitz,

saulres

,

Lord Mhork

, The Rufflig, D3f3nd3r, qwints [LYNCH]

guille2015

(4) - sword_of_omens,

Klick

, Plessiez, DoubleJD
No Lynch (1) -

Baby Spice

Ztife

(0) -
D3f3nd3r (0) -

saulres

(0) -
DoubleJD (0) -
The Rufflig (0) -

Lord Mhork

(0) -
Plessiez (0) -
havingfitz (0) -
Klick (0) -
qwints (0) -
sword_of_omens (0) -

And now let's see what the Day 2 Lynch VC tells us.

Lord Mhork

(6) - sword_of_omens, Plessiez, qwints, The Rufflig, DoubleJD, havingfitz [Lynch]
D3f3nd3r (3) -

Lord Mhork

,

saulres

, Phillammon

saulres

(0) -
havingfitz (0) -
qwints (0) -
Phillammon (0) -
Plessiez (0) -
sword_of_omens (0) -
DoubleJD (0) -
The Rufflig (0) -

Between the two, only Rufflig and Havingfitz were on both lynches. And both of them were at usually scummy places to be on the wagon for the mislynch.

[D3f3nd3r]

Forgot Qwints, sorry. And I confused Guille and Klick for a second, then screwed up when I went back to fix it.

I think one, and possibly (though not likely) two of the three are scum.

Don't have time for reads right now, but I should be able to tonight.

[D3f3nd3r]

Prod dodge.

Lord Mhork read for me as town, but he was my worst townread. Nothing's been striking me as scummy, really, from anyone.

[D3f3nd3r]

You're pretty quick up on the prods, SAD.

@Plessiez: I am apparently not playing to my scum meta from NY 152.
1. What has made me scummy despite that?
2. Am I playing to my town meta?

Regarding your Phillammon read, it looks okay. I have played with him on at least one occasion, and he does not appear to be playing to his meta from that. In that game (Spartacus Mafia, both of us were town), his longest post was eight lines long, and most of his posting was viewed as fluff. Whereas here, he had his long post just over a week ago.

[D3f3nd3r]

You're not obvscum for me.

Unfair though? I don't think I did anything against you or anyone.

[D3f3nd3r]

Not sure if sarcasm or serious...

I strongly disbelieve the claim if it is true.

In the event that it is, can we have a role?

[D3f3nd3r]

Yeah, I meant your character name. Sorry.

[D3f3nd3r]

I'm having trouble seeing the claim. And, why claim now? I think Double would have claimed before his replacement.

[D3f3nd3r]

Is there something to your role about night-kills? It's unlikely that you will be able to be protected every single day for the rest of the game.

I'm starting to see the role right. After all, bastard game.

[D3f3nd3r]

Consider this a warning: I will have limited access from 2/16 to 2/24. I will probably be able to check up on the game every so often, but I can not say I will be able to every 2 days.

[D3f3nd3r]

ArcAngel, you seem to want me to claim. Is this true?

[D3f3nd3r]

I'm not completely away, I just can't be here ever for long.

[D3f3nd3r]

Should I hammer?

[D3f3nd3r]

I'd like to hear from someone other than havingfitz and Qwints before I hammer. I already know their opinions.

P-Edit: Screw it.

Vote Havingfitz

[D3f3nd3r]

Limited access.

That does not mean No Access.

[D3f3nd3r]

Qwints also pushed for a Fitz lynch. I was just the fourth vote.

[D3f3nd3r]

Rufflig was most likely town. If he was Mafia, it would most likely be game over. If he was SK, people wouldn't like the amount of kills of past nights. If he was town, then I seem to see the picture now.

Fitz, what the heck happened with your lynch?

[D3f3nd3r]

I am in favor of a mass claim. Should I?

[D3f3nd3r]

Back from V/LA.

@Pless: Got it.

[D3f3nd3r]

Okay. I'll go first.

I am a Non-Consecutive-Night Bodyguard.

I protected someone nights one and three, so I will be able to bodyguard again tonight.

I'd like Fitz to claim next.

[D3f3nd3r]

Plessiez. We're both alive.

[D3f3nd3r]

First: X-Shot only says that they can only use the ability X times. All I know is that I'm a bodyguard.

And, I am having trouble believing Plessiez's claim. I think he claimed that to stop me from protecting him and to get my protection somewhere useful.

[D3f3nd3r]

I am not an odd bodyguard. I can choose not to protect tonight then to protect N6.

[D3f3nd3r]

I'm thinking my role has to do with Zitfe's character (big buff guy with accent).

Also, how bodyguarding works:

A, B, and C are players.

Actions:
A does nothing
B kills A
C bodyguards A

Resolution:
C dies

[D3f3nd3r]

I said who I protected. It was the same both nights.

I don't buy Plessiez's claim because it seems like he wants me to get my protection elsewhere. I was getting a bit of trouble for who I was protecting. The claim seems town to me, but it seems false as well.

---------

If I had died, it wouldn't be that bad, considering that I'm being less useful to town than just about everyone else here.

[D3f3nd3r]

1. Several other people were wanting this. Town Plessiez would want me to put my protection on a claimed PR more than him.

2. In my 127, I mentioned that I read Plessiez as town. That read stands strong.

Governor could be the Springfield mayor (Quimby?), but I don't see how he fits into the setup thoughts we're having.

[D3f3nd3r]

I think it's 3 scum. Day 2 would have been MyLo if there were 4 scum, so I doubt 4 is right.

[D3f3nd3r]

Where is your question? I didn't see anything I haven't answered when scrolling through your ISO.

[D3f3nd3r]

I was on limited access, which means I has some access to the game. When I checked the thread, people were pushing for Havingfitz's lynch, and wanted someone to hammer.

[D3f3nd3r]

Your analysis of what happened last night doesn't account for the possibility that someone shot at you and you survived because you were bulletproof.

Yes D3f3nd3r, you should hammer.

Unless qwints is a master busser who fakeclaimed doc and then left out a NK last night to 'confirm' his claim...I think he's pretty much guaranteed town. Which makes his current position on my wagon extremely fcuking annoying.

Krusty- 1 shot BP
And I'm not told if my 1 shot is used or not.

[]------- Time

^and you would be wrong.

Any benefit to me hammering myself? I'm not a big fan of suspense. I hate to blow one of town's mislynches on myself but at the same time it gives me a chance to say fcuk you to the town on my wagon

C'mon D3f...log in and hammer me.

On that note...if the favorites are me (wrong) and D3f...why isn't the non-contributor going first?

Unbelievable. Eejits.

[D3f3nd3r]

Arc, you don't understand that I had LIMITED access to the game in those times. I was STILL ABLE to access the game, just not as often as I am now. Limited Access =\= No Access.

[D3f3nd3r]

I never believed Zitfe's claim.

An early townread does not mean that they become a scumread later.

[D3f3nd3r]

As scum, I would have nothing to lose by voting my scumbuddies.

Some people prefer bussing, some people don't.

[D3f3nd3r]

I never said I always do, I said it's not a bad idea.

[D3f3nd3r]

I don't consider myself an aggressive player.

[D3f3nd3r]

I acknowledge that I'm not the best townie.

I came a couple hours away from replacement right there, so that hints that I'm not that useful. If you want the majority of the town to be more useful, lynch me. The VCA should be interesting.

[D3f3nd3r]

Qwints, if he is the doctor he claims to be, can do what we need.

Then again, if you want to keep a rather useless at Day but helpful by Night town-member, feel free to keep me in.

[D3f3nd3r]

All three are "no."

I find that fighting for my role, in the past, is ineffective as both town and scum. Very rarely does pleading save me; most often it seems to seal my fate.

And, that post by Plessiez really gives me the impression that he finds me to be town.

And, being a useless townie does not help town that much, if at all. The whole "good townie" thing helps town win. If every townie was useless, I assume the game would be very close to over by now.

[D3f3nd3r]

Oh. I was thinking about breadcrumbing, but I really had no ideas how to do it without people picking it up right then and there.

Also, I'm pretty sure there is only one scum left; Day 2 would have been MyLo if so and that being in the setup doesn't seem right.

[D3f3nd3r]

Fine, lynch me. Better lynch someone useless than someone who people care about.

[D3f3nd3r]

And...behind Curtain #3, Flanders, the Non-Consecutive-Night Town Bodyguard.

HF next please.

[D3f3nd3r]

God.

[D3f3nd3r]

Couple reasons:

1. When I try the super-active approach, I tend to scum slip A LOT.
2. Everything seemed to come down to my lurking. If that's the town's problem, they shouldn't have kept me alive nearly that long.
3. The modding I did of another game during this one suggested to me that playing Mafia is not really my thing. I probably wouldn't have gotten that upset if I was force-replaced at some point.

[D3f3nd3r]

"I'm replacing out because you guys haven't lynched me yet."

Not just is that against win-con, that's terribly wrong.