Mini 1405: The Simpsons Mafia (Game Over)

[DoubleJD]

VOTE: lord mhork

Smilely faces equal scum.

[DoubleJD]

Anything = 1 thing = a null self vote. That theory was a dead end, and i like my mhort vote better than it.

Your exaggeration here was weird, but you're encouraging attacks on yourself which is town. You get town cred.

[DoubleJD]

DoubleJD and havingfitz's decision to ignore the discussion in favour of placing random votes is noted.

D3f3nd3r -- have you played in (or read) many theme games? (The games I've seen have been designed so that mass name-claims aren't very helpful; scum usually either have fake names to claim or actually do have town-sounding role names).

In general, discussion about whether or not anybody is forced to self-vote should wait until Klick returns to the thread. However, D3f3nd3r is right that it's a bit strange Klick hasn't been around to explain his vote -- he has been posting elsewhere on the site.

VOTE: Guille2015
for not stopping by and saying 'hello'.

This is a better wagon than the Mhork one, I feel, given the next post:

But then you confirmed as a sure thing. Saying you vaguely remember him do it seems like a cop out for when or if he flips town. But I do remember. He did that as Town in Open 455 and you said nothing about it. Actually you went after the player who voted for Klick because of that. I remember you were town in that game.

This is a misrepresentation. Both of this game and, funnily enough, of the game you link to.

(1) At no point has Mhork "confirmed as a sure thing" his vote on Klick. Quite the opposite, really: in 21 he says he is "36% sure" (so not very sure); he begins 22 by saying "oh, and more serious.." (with the obvious implication that he

wasn't

serious in the earlier post).

(2) In Open 455 Klick did self-vote, and another player (Disturbed_One) did vote for him. But Mhork didn't vote for Disturbed_One

because

of this -- in fact, he only voted Distrubed

after

D_O, under some pressure, moved his way

away

from Klick. Mhork actually says "Dude ... I was with you up until that horrid last vote". That is, rather than voting D_O for his Klick vote, he implies he supported it.

I can see 5 things i said in that post, which point is confusing?

[DoubleJD]

DIdnt mean to quote :/

[DoubleJD]

@ post 39 Maybe Im not experienced enough yet, but i dont see why scum would want to draw attention to themselves. Ya, the vote could be some kind of post restriction i guess (this is my 2nd theme, idk if thats possible), but i see it as an attention grabber that goes against what scum want to do.

@Ruffling: post 41, I dont get this. The other guy can either say "not uh", or has to admit it basically. You dont have to read jack so long as you're aware of the meta's age. I read this as a defense of mhork, do you think hes town or something?

@Guille post 47, i like the vote, but i dont understand how you can be satisfied when your initial reasoning is based on wrong meta. Why so stubborn?

@Saulres, post 50, i like mhork as scum for that, i dont see buddying though. Seems more like hes just interested in seeing if the meta argument held water or not.

@Omens post 55, what do you make of this "wouldnt be so careless" argument?

[DoubleJD]

@qwints: I agree with his reasoning on why mhork is scummy, but disagree that ples is buddying. I see it as genuine interest in a meta case, nothing more.

[DoubleJD]

Im against it. There are "famous" cops and doctors on the show, name claiming outs them. I dont see how this is close or why its such a big discussion.

@Ztife, have you played a theme before? If you answer yes, how many? This is important.

[DoubleJD]

Secrets out. Ztife, i think you're scum unless this is like your 1st or 2nd theme. Its fairly common for scum to have fake claims from my understanding, so i dont see how your point about finding liars helps at all.

[DoubleJD]

vla till tomorrow

. Shoulda announced, whatever

[DoubleJD]

Im here, catching up.

[DoubleJD]

@Mhork: You get to stay a scum read for the sarcastic apology.

@Defender: Huh? Posts 80 and 81 arent similar at all. We have one post that expressly states they want to name claim, and supports that decision with false benefits and no mention of detriments....and another post that does nothing but fence sit.

I agree that Ples is prob town, klink gets to stay town too since hes done these "1 liner x is town" posts as town before.

@Ruffling: I really dont like how you use a bunch of town reasons to conceal read justification, but neglect the obvious "massively benefits you when you're scum" reason. I think its pretty clear that read justification is a means of catching scum, and all i can really see out of you avoiding it is a way to maximize your scum EV. Its selfish honestly, but whatever. I dont see scum intent there.

@Saulres:

VOTE: Saulres

Because you used "scum slip" and "lyncher role" in the same paragraph to vote someone, neither of which is an actual reason to do so.

1)Scumslip: In general, i find these to almost always be applied incorrectly and also used as a cheap way to gain support. In this specific instance, you're using it as false support for your vote. Defender's use of "others" could very easily have been in reference to Ples and Klink who he calls town in the same post within short proximity of this word. I dont see why you jump to "scumslip" when this simpler solution exists.

2) Lyncher: Another "bad" word to support a lynch. Who cares if hes a lyncher? Great Idea Mafia had lynchers in it when i played, and town didnt lose just because the lyncher won. They were also town alligned iirc. So so what?

These reasons to lynch defender are bad and scummy, ergo lynch ahoy.

[DoubleJD]

I should clarify my klink read.

In masons and mafia as a VT he did this (note, he was replaced by venrob)
post 90
post 92

^^Which were two instances extremely similar to this post 137. Maybe he does it as scum too, idk. Good enough to be town atm though.

[DoubleJD]

Right. That section, and post 81, are completely different though. I dont understand why you think they deserve similar attention.

[DoubleJD]

Less time doing nothing, more time voting saulres or stating why you think its folly.

[DoubleJD]

A game where you "trap" someone as town would be helpful as well.

[DoubleJD]

DoubleJD has some suspicions of Guille?

Thats a good way to say it i guess. I dont buy the argument against him, and think hes towny. Buttttttt saul defended him. So hes not someone id sheep atm, but hes also not someone id lynch.

[DoubleJD]

Prod dodge, busy week :/

[DoubleJD]

Given saulres' earlier posts, does this seem honest to you?

I'm not answering anything else until Ztife posts and answers my questions. You're already causing problems with what I was trying to do.

If yes, then saulres was definitely trying to accomplish something. If no, then do you think the point of this post was a setup for saulres' trap story? Keep in mind the timeline here./quote]

This is actually one of the reasons i think the trap is full of crap.
-Saul said this less than 24 hours before the big "reveal", and
-was under considerable pressure at the time, and
-the trap "failed" just because ztife's post didnt sheep saul's scumslip thing, when
-most of saul's prior posts were, at the very least, asserting suspicion of ztife

The first two lead me to believe its an excuse, and the second two dont make logical sense to me. It seems so much more likely that saul just invented a trap, and a way it could fail, so he could justify his defender vote.

Pedit: really? :/

[DoubleJD]

I hinted at this role here, here, and I think elsewhere.

These are all way after you got suspicion, and your failed trap though :/

Whatevs, i dont really see a downside to waiting till tomorrow

UNVOTE: saul

[DoubleJD]

Saul, whats your name?

I can see one instance where you're mafia and tell your partner to confirm you...but we may be able to get two mafs that way. So its still best to wait. I want the full claim though.

[DoubleJD]

@klick: i agree with your read on babyspice, but i dont get qwints, and have no idea how ples could ever be scum. Ples has a mountain of townie stuff, and i cant really see scum going so far out of their way to push saul unless he went waaaaaaay overboard chainsaw defending ztife. Thats just so unlikely though.

Im stuck on ztife. Ive been convinced of saul scum for so long that i really dont want to lynch a guy hes been suspecting for half the game. Fuck, ima come back in a few hours and reread. 2 days sucks but i dont think any of leading wagons are right until we see if saul gets mod confirmed or not tomorrow.

@Saul: Annnnd i forgot scum get fakes. Nvm, it wouldnt matter.

[DoubleJD]

Ermmmm okaaaaaaayyyyyyy

@Plez: I really, really want to lynch saul. But I have a lot of trouble thinking the mod would give that power to scum though, even if it is a bastard game. Its best to let him live till tomorrow and see if someone confirms him.

Ruff, i dont get why you claimed. Ztife made that "i am wiggam" post after you made your "im cheif of police" post, so its not like you "broke his plan" or cleared him.

[DoubleJD]

So, Zitfe, are you confirmed sane?

I really want to lynch you now.

@Mhork: Are you really suggesting ruff scum slipped when he posted the suggestion in bold?

[DoubleJD]

@Plez: Im not lynching guille, i dont see it. Also i see two options at this point: 1) We lynch someone thats claimed, 2) we lynch someone else. An IC told me in some newbie game that its best to limit the claims on day1, but idk if that applies to closed bastard theme games. If we arent lynching someone thats already claimed, however, i dont think it should be guile. Defender makes a better lynch than that, and lord mhork now too for dodging my question and then dropping the subject. If we're lynching a claimer though, ztife is the only one that makes sense given ruff is very likely town and saul can confirm.

Re whether hes actually scummy or not: meh. Just looking at recent stuff, arguments are that hes lurking (which isnt necessarily true), and that hes lying about this wiggum thing (which isnt necessarily true either, since he didnt give the page he looked at). 22hrs to go, yeah, ill lynch him for this. Its far from a concrete case though, and i think defenders better baring gametheory issues with lynching someone not already claimed.

I dont get the balance issues about a cop+neighbor though, for all we know the scum are super powerful so im not seeing that argument. I dont really get the need for more info either, because scum either have fake claims or they dont. If they do, they probably have flavor with it anyway. If they dont, just the name suffices so we can counter name claim later.

I didnt vote yet apparently
VOTE: defender

Ill be around at deadline and get ztife if necessary.

pedit: and mhork just answered me, but i g2g and cant read it yet :/

[DoubleJD]

Unofficial count has

Ztife (1) -, The Rufflig,
guille2015 (3) - sword_of_omens, , Klick, Plessiez
Baby Spice (4) - Ztife, havingfitz, saulres, Lord Mhork,
D3f3nd3r (2) - DoubleJD, qwints

My vote doesnt change anything, but i dont want a no lynch. I think the people on guille's wagon look townier than those on baby spices, so whatever

VOTE: guille

Peoples should come in and stop a no lynch. SAD said somewhere that we need the full 7, so hop to it.

[DoubleJD]

Still VLA, but im very likely voting saul today. I need to do some research now that i know z and g were town, but i doubt its changing my mind.

[DoubleJD]

VOTE: saulres

I believe we have some kind of ____ doctor. This explains how z died. I dont believe qwints outs unless he really was a doctor, and really did target z. Therefore, he must be insane or cpr or some other kind of destructive or unhelpful variant.

I also believe saul is just scum. This explains why fitz got no pm. That NAR dayne posted had bus, block, redirect, and miscellaneous posted there, and any number of these things could have happened on saul. I just highly doubt it.

[DoubleJD]

Ruff, huh?. Innocent child is a one shot ability, i think friendly neighbor would be too. If you know that its not, lemme know. But otherwise, we have to make the decision of whether to make him untouchable or kill him now. We're not starting everyday with the question of if Saul is scum and derailing any other useful conversation.

[DoubleJD]

Qwints, why klink?

[DoubleJD]

<---Law student, i dont have time for that. Paraphrase plz?

[DoubleJD]

post 560

Really? :/

Yeah, thats nowhere near enough for me to even blink at klink right now.

[DoubleJD]

VOTE COUNT 1.19 AKA LYNCH VOTE COUNT

Baby Spice

(7) -

Ztife

, havingfitz, saulres, Lord Mhork, The Rufflig, D3f3nd3r, qwints [LYNCH]

guille 2015

(4) - sword_of_omens, Klick, Plessiez, DoubleJD
No Lynch (1) -

Baby Spice

Not Voting (1) –

guille2015

No one asked, but my reason behind wanting to look at sword_of_omens and Klick is based on the final vote count. While it is possible that all the scum ended up on Baby Spice especially as it was a deadline lynch, it is also possible that they did not. DoubleJD will sort himself out after we count the number of deaths tonight.

I dont how this post provides any extra information. Every living player was on one of those wagons :/

[DoubleJD]

I believe we have some kind of ____ doctor. This explains how z died. I dont believe qwints outs unless he really was a doctor, and really did target z. Therefore, he must be insane or cpr or some other kind of destructive or unhelpful variant.

I also believe saul is just scum. This explains why fitz got no pm.

This is what caught my eye. My first impression of that post was that Double JD was saying that qwints (unintentionally) killed ztife instead of the scum. If there are two kills tonight then I'm mistaken. If there is only 1 kill tonight, then I need to take a hard look at Double JD.

You misunderstand me. 1 possibility is that qwints killed ztife. The other is that the protection failed because of some different adjective. Like Naive.

@Saul: Your explanations are cool and all, but the simplest of all is still that you're just scum.

[DoubleJD]

I'll ask you the same things I asked Plessiez -- got any other reads? And, if I'm scum with that fakeclaim, why did fitz said he didn't get anything -- is he a buddy of mine setting me up for a fall? Or did I choose a townie who I knew wouldn't confirm me so I'd be lynched today?

I dont feel like distracting the thread by pushing my 2nd or 3rd scum read. You beat both of them, theres no reason to talk about it. If someone other than scum asks me, id be happy to go into it; but you're just trying to distract the issue.

re choices
Idk why you would choose fitz. But there are obvious, simple, reasons for both possible roles.
-Assume fitz is town: Its not hard to see you planning to play this "oh noes, roleblocked, lol" card. You almost immediately jumped to this.
-Assume fitz is scum: Its not hard to think that your pm wouldnt save you given Plez's comments about on day1. Having a scum fitz confirm you (your only option as scum to send a "real pm") would just cause him to be lynched right after for fake confirming. This is easy to see too. Scratch that, fear of trackers? Scratch that, fear of a cop lookup on you?

This wifom is getting excruciatingly dull.

[DoubleJD]

I dont feel like distracting the thread by pushing my 2nd or 3rd scum read. You beat both of them, theres no reason to talk about it. If someone other than scum asks me, id be happy to go into it; but you're just trying to distract the issue.

I don't need you to push your other scum reads, but I would like to hear them.

Short answer is Mhork and Defender.


/PoE I have you, plez, and qwints in the "super obvious town" camp. I can explain these again too if necessary. Saul is scum. /end PoE

Klick i had some town vibes from before. I see him being lazy now, but i dont get anything from that. This day is really dragging on, and I can see how it might not be interesting enough for some. His 1 liner posts is part of his meta as far as i can tell, and i know he did it briefly as town in a masons &mafia game I played with him last month (brief because of replacement shenanigans that aren't relevant here). Id honestly like more from him, but its not a reason to break my vibes.

I cant see fitz being anything but town. I think its relatively unlikely saul tells a partner to deny getting a message, especially if hes planning on playnig this "i got roleblocked" card anyway. I think hes most likely town.

That leaves Defender, Mhork, and Omens. Ive been lazy, and havent been looking at omens quite frankly. I dont see anything that strikes me as out of the ordinary, though i will be taking a closer look and try to solidify a read after saul dies.

Mhork: I lean scum for waffling on the name claim early on, for post 125 (i dont understand the scummy vibes for ruff, and think his response to guile is scummy), he has a lot of posts that arent pushing reads or stating reads but instead asking questions without followups regarding their answers, more dissonance with his thoughts about saul in p265, dissonance with my thoughts on guile in 322, the ruff "scumslip" thing, i dont get the baby spice lynch. at all. (this point goes double for defender), and his vote on defender seems to come soley from this flanders thing, which feels both like weak reasoning and a deflection away from lynching saul.

Defender: The main reason NOT to suspect defender is that Saul's "trap" came out of a defender vote. However, this was the 4th vote on defender's wagon. Therefore, i dont think these make a defender-saul pair unlikely; rather, because it was so late and with weak reasoning, i think it can easily be a poor attempt to distance from him. Add into this the fact that he tried to encourage name claims, and an absence of any real meaningful posts, and i get a scum vibe.

Mhorks feels more likely scum than defender by a wide margin, but saul trumps them both without contest.

[DoubleJD]

Omg why arent we just lynching saul!

[DoubleJD]

Because no one just outs out of the blue to say "Im a 1 shot doc, and i protected ztife" when ztife DIES. This would be one hell of a play by scum, except qwints didnt use it as a play! Am I to believe he planned this crazy level just so he could unveil it in a single line to explain away a miniscule lurker charge made by the scummiest player in the game? No way! There is no way qwints is lying here, it just makes no sense. He wasnt under any real suspicion that i could tell, and games typically are sparse on protective roles. Nobody does this as scum without at least playing it up a bit, not with the risk of another doctor owning his face with a counter claim due to the tendency of having few protective roles.

There is no way qwints is ever scum. I have no idea what his doctor crumb was, but apparently some people did. I see no reason why its difficult to believe scum did too (ie you!) and blocked him to kill the cop. The play becomes even more obvious given that you're scum, because then mafia have no reasonable target except ztife!

It is so improbable that qwints is scum here even with these "lurker" claims, which im beginning to think are about as much of a scum tell as the titles under our profile names.

[DoubleJD]

not hibs

popcorn to mhork

[DoubleJD]

Thats a lot of reading, and im pressed for time. I should be around near deadline, but skimming didnt give me a reason to unvote saul

[DoubleJD]

My life just got super busy. I started a new relationship, have a research project due thursday, and tons of homework inbetween. Id replace out, but i think im be fine as soon as thursday rolls over.

I havent read most of the last two pages, though i am watching the votecount and deadline. Im sticking to my previous reads and I will vote Saul>Mhork>>>>Def. I refuse to vote klink/fitz unless absolutely necessary to avoid a nolynch, and im never voting plez/ruff/qwints.

Ill be checking in again around deadline. Im sorry guys

[DoubleJD]

Looks like Mhork it is

VOTE: mhork

I can no longer check the thread

[DoubleJD]

Id replace out, but i think im be fine as soon as thursday rolls over.

Ya no, not fine

I somehow got even busier, I have no time to reread this thread or those last pages of posts; and I cant even guarentee I'll be able to read the future ones. Sorry everyone.

@Mod: requesting replacement

[DoubleJD]

GG guys! WP replace arc! Good modding SAD, it was fun. I think it was pretty well balanced, very swingy with all the different roles/powers...but i mean...its bastard. Wish I coulda stayed in

That bus drive was HILARIOUSly awesome. I just wanted to convince Mhork to use it so I could kill him quicker >:] , then it worked out amazingly well.