Mini 1427 - Slenderman Mafia - Game Over

[serrapaladin]

Hey fuzzy! Hey all!
VOTE: leviathan
for not voting Yates.

[serrapaladin]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: fuzzy

[serrapaladin]

I dislike RVS and like reactions.

On a completely different note, how would you feel about wagoning fuzzy?

[serrapaladin]

Why not fuzzy?

[serrapaladin]

Huh?

[serrapaladin]

Dislike =/= refuse to

My vote on you, on the other hand, is very much not random.

[serrapaladin]

What're you all on about my vote being a counterwagon?

AJ's reaction is not cool.

[serrapaladin]

My first reaction to your RVS vote was to vote you. Counterwagon votes are scummy, the wagons are meant to give reaction. And thus, you were trying to prevent this. From any other view, that IS scummy. You're almost buddying me, and making a reaction for me, which is really bad. Apparently, you don't even recognize your own actions enough to realize that.

Where was I preventing a wagon or buddying you? My vote was NOT in response to the wagon, or fuzzy's continuation of it, but rather to fuzzy's exclamation of "oh look: an RVS wagon", which he had absolutely no reason to.

Serra's vote is odd, but it is two things: The counter wagon vote, found in almost all RVS stages, and a non-legitimate vote other than counterwagon when made. Generally, people see counterwagon as a bad vote, the first indication to scum, derailment of a wagon. Which, at l-2, isn't a bad thing. But, I know myself to be town, and thus note that he can't have a motive to stop a scum wagon by that. Why he is persisting after Fuzzy, I haven't seen any good reason, but I don't expect that this is a reasoning vote, I suspect it to be reactionary only.

Your strong reaction towards my vote is unwarranted and ranting, which again you have very little reason to do this early on.

I'll chalk it up to you misreading my vote, but that sort of attack early on based on very little isn't particularly townie.

---

Also, fuzzy's rolefishing is likely noobtown.

UNVOTE:

[serrapaladin]

i am different because i have left my vote on someone that i see as a possibility of scum and until seen otherwise that they are very townish i'm going to think that they could be.

So it takes someone being "very townish" to convince you to move an RVS vote?

Levi is a decent wagon.

VOTE: leviathan

[serrapaladin]

It might be Yates, had I not phrased it as a question...

[serrapaladin]

What do you think leviathan meant then?

[serrapaladin]

Particularly when you sheep the person you're sarcastic towards in the same post.

[serrapaladin]

I'd like to hear him paraphrase the quote from leviathan, then I'll draw a conclusion.

[serrapaladin]

That's really not what he said though, is it? In the sentence I quoted, he states:
a) He has left his RVS vote as he sees the possibility of HD being scum
b) He will keep seeing the possibility (and, I conclude, not move his vote) unless HD does something very townish

I question why his RVS vote should carry so much inertia.

Let me quote it again:

i am different because

i have left my vote on someone that i see as a possibility of scum

and

until seen otherwise that they are very townish i'm going to think that they could be

.

[serrapaladin]

Now he's trying to engage me in an attempt at defining how he can get away with this nonsense later if he isn't lynched now. Does not fly.

serra is being stubborn and sticky scum trying to hang on with every last ounce of his body to his levi vote.

So apparently I'm being lynched for asking a harmless question sharply.

leviathan sheeping Yates after agreeing my interpretation was a reasonable one to make is awful.

Might post a rant against Yates & HD some time tomorrow, in the mean time town should listen to kiwi, his posts actually make sense.

[serrapaladin]

Is there really a possibility of more than 2 scum in this setup, or did Levy just town tell really hard in post 127?

How is 127 a town tell? Levi didn't say anything about how the setup.

There's not much point in discussing the setup for now.

---

Look, yeah, Yates is probably town. We don't need to preach that to the world, most people with eyes can see that.

sounds a bit awkward.

---

I could go on a rant about how wrong Yates is about fuzzy and me, but I don't find him particularly scummy, so unless he has anything particular for me to answer, I'll look at levi instead:

I still don't like 82 as a response to kiwi's accusation.

95 calls Carey's sheep either obvscum or obvtown, which is by definition not obv-anything and thus an empty post.

127 seems sympathetic towards me (and he'd given fuzzy and me a townread previously), at least he calls my interpretation "understandable". Then after Yates reiterates how he thinks I was deliberately misrepping, levi pulls a 180 and votes me, even though Yates didn't really bring up any new argument against me between 127 and 133 (the vote). If he agrees with the case which Yates summarized, he should have done so before the summary, and hence have no reason to call me understandable. Yates' case, even though wrong, was clear enough not to need a summary.

In 137 he jumps at me calling his behavior sheeping. If he's town and truly agrees with the case, he should have no problem with his behavior being labeled as sheeping, which is alignment neutral.

[serrapaladin]

I don't get why Yates isn't really commenting on anything besides me. It seems he's quite content to have me as his target for the foreseeable future and justified this by saying even if I'm not scum, my play is bad enough for town to warrant my lynch. Surely there are other people who warrant his attention more than me.

Levi's back and forth with Mhork is pretty bad, and I don't know in how far I'm willing to accept Aj's read, that levi is too scummy to be scum.

I don't really see fuzzy as scum.

[serrapaladin]

^The hell was that?

[serrapaladin]

That's a very simplistic view of the game, Yates.

Carey's vote on Safety bothers me, but I don't know what to make of it.

[serrapaladin]

Really fuzzy? Aj makes a case on Ree based on interactions with you and you sheep the vote?

I'm not sure what's worse, that or the fact that Carey then sheeps you...

Also, the disarming of a blatant reaction test.

[serrapaladin]

^Really? In our last game, fuzzy was town, but seemed a bit scummy to be. He didn't look as silly/newbie as he does now...not sure what to think of his play.

[serrapaladin]

Yeah, I played as scum against Carey in Micro 117 and he was a particularly easy mislynch to push. He's playing a very similar game here, including the self-aware VI thing, which is what got him lynched that game.

[serrapaladin]

Oh, you're good at making people want to lynch you. If you ever draw jester you'll have a heyday.

[serrapaladin]

Can we PLEASE stop rolefishing?
Thanks.

[serrapaladin]

Lol at me being scum for inactivity on a Saturday night.

[serrapaladin]

OMFG:

@mod: look at Carey's postsL: there is a chance we'll win this after all!

that being said, fuzzy and levi are the worst so far. Ree is actually playing OK,

[serrapaladin]

Levi's play is completely inconsistent and horrible. Completely ignoring kiwi's absence while voting Safety is awful, given Safety replaced in. Also the strong scumread on me changed in 1 post by Safety.

SafetyDance's play is looking fine. Fuzzy looks noobtown, and I'd say we ignore Carey and wait for his replacement.

[serrapaladin]

No it's not levi. Mhork has been reasonable and you've been flailing. The case against Safety is horrible and I'm convinced at least one of you voting him are scum.

[serrapaladin]

Are you two high?

Basically this.

Except I don't agree on Carey. He is an absolute moron, but nothing he's done looks all too different from his normal VI meta.

Ms Marangal, explain why levi is obvtown? The case on Safety is complete bullshit based on "lurking."

I think Mhork's play has been fine. Yates ignoring everything but my alleged misrep for pages is a bit odd, but his recent points make sense. Fuzzy not so much, but it at least seems as though he's he trying. My read on his is towards noobtown.

[serrapaladin]

Carey, go play somewhere else!

[serrapaladin]

T/S lists are anti-town, but suggesting them can easily come from newbtown. I'm torn about whether levi's inconsistencies, anti-town arguments and generally abrasive uselessness comes from scum or bad town. Looking at how often he manages to get himself lynched as town sort of suggests the latter, but I really dislike his play so far.

Miss Marple, explain the rationale behind your comment of agreeing with your own lynch. You've obviously been reading and posting enough to suggest you do care about the outcome of this game. Also explain the possible scum-motivation behind Mhork's greeting to you.

I don't like Mhork's "not yet" about finding fuzzy scummy. Sort of seems like a setup to change his read in case fuzzy gets wagoned hard, but IDK. None of his other posts so far have bothered me, but I'll have to reread to make up my mind.

Ms Marangal has been more useful and made more sense in the last few hours than fuzzy and levi have all game, so I'm all for keeping her around. Mhork, besides Carey being massive lynchbait, do you have any reason to suspect Ms M?

Yates is an interesting wagon. Ms M's case is reads well and echos many of my thoughts about his play. My opinion on fuzzy is sort of like that on levi, so I think I'll
VOTE: Yates

I'll hopefully have time to reread and form some stronger opinions soon.

[serrapaladin]

Amished tell is bullshit because a) female and b) extenuating circumstances of Carey sucking A LOT.

Mhork, what do you mean by "Yates forcing another claim"?

Deadline isn't THAT close. It's not a particularly large game, so I don't see too much of a No Lynch problem.

Hey levi, if you're never NKed but often mislynched you might want to reflect upon that...also good job anticipating Ms M's town flip! Fairly common noobscum twilight behavior, but you seem to be jumping the gun a bit.

I'd be willing to compromise on either fuzzy or levi for semi-policy reasons.

I don't much care for the case on Ms Marangal, and as I see her separate from Carey, I probably won't vote her.

[serrapaladin]

but thats not my problem

No, it's the problem of the town that has to deal with you. Which is sort of your problem...

[serrapaladin]

they just have to trust me i'm town and that will be that.

Except when you're not. You haven't been around for long enough for your stats to be worth anything and I doubt you can claim a substantial contribution to many of your victories.

@everyone: can we PLEASE keep Ms M for now? If we need to decide on a lynch for deadline pressure, let's have it be levi, if only to save us all a headache later on.

[serrapaladin]

If murple flips scum, you will be scummy for buddying her. If murple flips Town, you will be scummy for distancing from her. You see how that works?

I see confirmation bias, and lots of it. I really don't understand your insane aversion to sheeping an argument you agree with. I had made similar points towards you throughout the game, which Ms M fleshed out and formulated as a rather compelling case. Also, what the hell are you on about Ms M misinterpreting Mhork's post? The Asperger's comment is wildly inappropriate and rather wrong, too. Mhork has indeed expressed sympathy towards Ms M replacing into such a bad slot and I too read his greeting with a slightly apologetic tone. If you could just go ahead and get off your high horse, that'd be great...

Ree, mind explaining why you think scum-Ms Marangal would tunnel on Yates after replacing into a suspicious slot? Surely if she's scum trying to save herself, attacking levi or fuzzy would be much easier. What valuable information would her lynch give, besides her alignment? "I have all these great connection tells" isn't really convincing. Yates has already stated that regardless of her flip, he'll see me as scummy for it, demonstrating that you can always twist the sort of buddying and distancing that's been going on recently as town- or scum-tells regardless of the flip.

[serrapaladin]

That's only half right. I actually said that the reason you need to present your own case is to PREVENT buddying/distancing arguments so you are judged on your own merit. Otherwise, you're right. Without understanding where your vote came from, I can do nothing but assume that you already know what margarine will flip.

I have no problem being judged according to which arguments I do or do not agree with, in addition to my own. I judge the quality of cases independent of the person making them, hence my agreeing with many points you have made, despite my opinion that your early focus on me might make you scum. If you feel compelled to judge me by associative tells, rather than individual ones, that's certainly up to you, but I won't stop agreeing with good arguments because you'll call me scummy for it. Quite conversely, I find it significantly more suspicious if people feel the need to reiterate cases made by others in order to justify their vote.

You are correct that I hadn't expressed my points against you in a particularly accusatory manner, but 197, 223 and 474 still line up with malarkey's case. Her case 'connected the dots,' so to say, and convinced me that your behaviour could indeed have scum motivation.

As to the tone of 471, that's not a particularly valuable argument to have, but that post, as well as some later ones by Mhork, did come across as sympathetic, as far as I'm concerned.

[serrapaladin]

What?

[serrapaladin]

Good point. I wasn't going to start speculating before we have some flips, but that's certainly a strong possibility.

There's still a part of me that wants to lynch levi, because his posts just keep getting worse, but Yates does look more scummy.

Levi, rather than awfully defending yourself and your play style, why don't you tell us why I'm scummy and what you think of Yates?

[serrapaladin]

Levi, are you sure your gut doesn't just follow the currently most vocal party? You seemed quite content and convinced in sheeping Yates onto me when that topic dominated the discussion, but recent posts seem to have given you a change of heart.

[serrapaladin]

^you confuse me so much, fuzzy. The argument against Yates is good, although I don't really like my current company on his wagon.

[serrapaladin]

But MM is such a bad lynch...even if you don't think Yates is scum.

I would want levi or fuzzy lynched before Ms M.

Why the hell is fuzzy talking about the NK?

[serrapaladin]

I'll ruin the suspense, fuzzy. If there are enough people out there who want you dead, you're not getting NKed - hence MsM and you are most likely surviving the night.

Only as scum, Marangal.

[serrapaladin]

VOTE: fuzzy

with the promise to get back onto Yates if this doesn't work out.

[serrapaladin]

fuzzy, you've been hammered, wanna relieve the suspense and tell us if we're right?

[serrapaladin]

Cool. Also you haven't actually been hammered.

[serrapaladin]

theres a reason you have him as null. he has 11 posts. =/ thats not enough to get a confident read on anyone.

Catching up quick...I can't even defend the trio of votes on me before but usually guys, pro tip here, when someone asks you a question, you don't vote them as an answer.
[...]

yeah, you're about as scummy as they come. you barely post, you don't really help town that much.

its hard to get any sort of real read out of you because of it. you are basically playing it safe and making sure nothing you do can be considered scummy but at the same time you don't look town either.

yeah you're scum for sure.

Safetydance SCUM

You seem confident enough in your read. As a replacement, Safety really hasn't been unreasonably inactive, but you take it as a certain scumtell...

[serrapaladin]

Trying to be useful despite limited time? Must be scum. [/sarcasm]

[serrapaladin]

Don't like fuzzy's reaction.

Marangal's reaction is genuine town, unless she's smart enough to call BS on the kill.

Levi is sort of derping along as before...

[serrapaladin]

Apparently the Amished tell doesn't work well on women. I do see Ms M as a completely separate entity to Carey because Carey sucks this much in all of his games.

[serrapaladin]

I am completely in love with Serra ATM

<3

I can 100% confirm that TNE is an

Innocent Child

FBI Agent.

[serrapaladin]

I was so close to ruining it

[serrapaladin]

Marangal's reaction is genuine town, unless she's smart enough to call BS on the kill.

My conclusion is still this, but leaning towards the former.

PSA for Levi & Fuzzy: the day-vig kill was a a reaction test. Marangal isn't dead.

[serrapaladin]

<3 rolefishing

[serrapaladin]

Why would it have confirmed him as town in the first place, levi?

It doesn't really affect his alignment too much, to be honest.

Did Marangal actually believe she was dead? In that case, what do you think of her parting words?

Explain, TNE? Why would we have a role with a day-kill ability to begin with?

[serrapaladin]

Not really, levi, I'd peg Ree as the kind of player that could easily do that sort of thing as scum.

I don't think you can assume anything "usual" about small themed setups. Particularly day-vig as opposed to the normal NK variant isn't particularly likely. Scum having a daykill is very unlikely.

[serrapaladin]

Yeah, mine was very half-assed, I admit, but it had people going for a few posts nonetheless.

[serrapaladin]

So we can keep Marangal alive now?

[serrapaladin]

Levi, just claim... if you are town your play has been bad enough to deserve to be lynched, so this is very much on you.

[serrapaladin]

So Aj, your Mhork case depends on the theory he was derailing the main wagon? What if fuzzy flips town?

[serrapaladin]

And we're back!

Levi, why you still alive?

Not sure about Mhork, I'll be looking at Safety and maybe Ree or HD. I still have a bad feeling about Yates.

[serrapaladin]

What makes you so certain?

[serrapaladin]

Given he's already claimed a pro-town PR, I think it might be a good idea to just get a full claim from him, so we might have a chance of verifying or refuting it.

Opinions?

[serrapaladin]

also, as I said before. I have no idea why i'm alive

As you said before?! When you made your last post, no one had died yet...

[serrapaladin]

@SP: why Yates?

See cases from yesterday. On rereading, there were a handful of posts that just rubbed me the wrong way, like 169 declaring he was trying not to look obvtown or telling levi to join the carey wagon for townpoints in 381


Good lord, levi. You can't just claim your PM says Safety is scum. I have my doubts in light of:

My reads

Yates---Town
AJ---Town
Carreyhammer---too scummy to be scum?? lots of question marks. null. kind of support a lynch
fuzzy nuts---null
Human destroyer---town
Kiwieagle---null
Lord mhork---possibly town. reason. aggressively scum hunting or so it seems. seems pro-town, but have some possible gut doubts. leaning more town
Mr. Rhee---null
Safetydance---nothing because there are like no posts and i simply have no idea whatsoever.
serrapaladin---scummiest at the moment.

Funny how you were tunneling me and not mentioning L or Safety until then when you knew all along his slot is scum...

Then, besides maybe lyncher or mason (neither of which fit), or you being his scumbuddy, I can't think of a role that outright gives you someone's alignment. In particular, I'd find it incredibly unlikely that a town PR be told that someone specific is scum.

I have no problem with bringing levi to L-2 with 2 Intents to Hammer to get him to claim. This bullshit has to stop.

VOTE: levi

[serrapaladin]

Look, no one is going to believe you about Safety as it is. You've all but given us a full claim already, so I don't see why you'd want to be holding back. If you can back up the claim that Safety is scum with some flavor and a logical role, there's a much better chance it'll actually gain some traction. If what you say is true, you're much in the same boat as a cop with a guilty on someone, which means you should really be fully claiming without us bringing you to L-2/L-1. If you are town, you have nothing to gain by being stubborn about this.

[serrapaladin]

You're also of no help now, because no one believes you, and you will be of absolutely no help if you die before full claiming.

[serrapaladin]

Except it obviously is your fault that you don't come across as believable. You have given us no reason to believe Safety is scum.

[serrapaladin]

Hmm, Safety, care to comment on what levi might have against you?

[serrapaladin]

levi, your incomplete claim is actually making me LESS likely to lynch Safety. Please just give us a complete claim so we can get on with this game.

[serrapaladin]

^thanks for posting the rant I was too lazy to.
VOTE: levi

[serrapaladin]

Hmm, I somehow don't think scum-Ree would pull a reaction test that leads to Mary not getting lynched. Unless they're both scum, but I highly doubt that.

[serrapaladin]

Hey levi, fancy being replaced by someone that'll actually play towards your wincon? You can count it as one of your wins if you want.

[serrapaladin]

AHAHAHAHA

Yes, please go after the last guy defending you. Maybe we can all agree to get rid of you then.

[serrapaladin]

GLK;B HFFASEL;DFJS BGDFXKLEW

You must have a broad forehead <3

[serrapaladin]

W-L is quite a span Mangle...

HD is sort of among the people I'm considering, but I honestly don't see us making any progress while you're messing about, levi.

[serrapaladin]

I think TNE mentioned the 1 SK 2 scum setup earlier, and it seems quite reasonable.

I don't see why slendy would know the traitors among us though, if they're not aligned with him.

[serrapaladin]

Meringue:


Then look at the spacing between your W and L key. It was funny in my head :/

Lynching Safety then levi sounds good.

[serrapaladin]

And I'm guessing they're not slendy-aligned?

Could you paraphrase your flavour?

[serrapaladin]

slendyman's gang

So your flavour alludes to the fact that scum is slendy-aligned?

[serrapaladin]

i'm traitor. safety is scum. if i am killed I turn into scum. if safety is killed. I commute that night. or whatever the hell that means.

So if we kill Safety today, scum can't kill levi.
UNVOTE: levi

[serrapaladin]

Well, I suppose that makes at least one third party very likely, if not a multiball. And levi will still be killed the following night unless we get the second scum.

Had we caught the other scum first, that would have been an instant loss for scum, which does make me wonder about balance.

[serrapaladin]

Wait, did we just skip the night phase?

Don't princesses usually skip the day phase when lynched?

Or was he actually scum?

I'm so confused...

[serrapaladin]

We know this means levi is full of shit though, right? I mean, he says he commutes if we kill Safety, but killing Safety skips Night...

[serrapaladin]

Yates' cop argument is abysmal.

I don't think we should lynch levi today, in case there is at least a bit of truth in his claim.

Flavor seems to imply that slendy is responsible for the NK, which makes me wonder about him as 3rd party.

Still confused...

[serrapaladin]

Reading the past pages was painful, perhaps more so than the levi argument.

Mhork, I understand your frustration, but shouting at Yates isn't going to help. Don't worry, you're actually making sense...

Yates (and Ree/AJ), as this is a theme game, it should primarily be seen as self-contained and not necessarily normal. We've established that Princess isn't a role that's even mentioned in the wiki, particularly not as a role that skips the night phase when lynched. This also means that we can't be sure about Safety's alignment. Therefore your argument that traitors must start off as scum because the wiki says so is horrible. If levi were indeed scum-aligned to begin with, there is absolutely no reason for him to claim Traitor.

Now, if he is a traitor levi obviously hasn't been turned yet. There is no use in lynching him today when scum would need to waste an NK to turn him.

Yates, your cop argument isn't compelling in the slightest. Not only is there the option of you being a GF, but I don't think you calling to be investigated makes it any more likely for that to actually happen. A confirmed townie is useful, certainly, but you are far from it.

I am worried by Aj's certainty that Yates is town from D1.

Mhork obviously meant: "I don't want to believe (it is) Serra"

Stop being dense.

[serrapaladin]

Given on how little you decided to tunnel me earlier, I hope you can see why I wouldn't take your word for it.

If his claim is truthful, there certainly would be a reason for scum to want levi dead. Levi is now outed. He won't help scum win the game. To recruit him would waste an NK, and his lynch today is a mislynch.

PE @Yates

[serrapaladin]

Ree: how sure are you Safety's flip wasn't scum?
What about your avatar?

[serrapaladin]

Also, I don't think this is MyLo.

If levi turns, there'll still be 7 people alive, at most 3 of which are scum.

[serrapaladin]

Do explain?

[serrapaladin]

I know what multiball is, I think I speculated about it earlier, I was wondering where you saw a multiball claim. 3rd parties, even if there are several (which I doubt), have individual wincons.

Given we have 8 alive, I don't see the levi flip being an issue, as we're likely not going to hit MyLo+1.

If enough people are worried, I will consider lynching levi today, particular because even treating him as conftown won't make him any more helpful. I still find trying to lynch scum today would be more useful.

[serrapaladin]

If you're not mod confirmed by tomorrow you're getting lynched? That's something I'd be happy to agree with.

[serrapaladin]

Yates, if 2 people die by tomorrow there'll be 6 of us left. Then the levi-factor won't come in to play.

Whom else would you be willing to lynch?

[serrapaladin]

Also (hurray for triple posting), could everyone share their opinion on what happened with Safety?

The way I see it, his flip could actually have been scum, in which case levi's claim is looking good. Alternatively, he was a town role who skips night when lynched. In that case I don't know what to think about levi's claim.

[serrapaladin]

Hmm, but the would mean 5 non-town roles in a game of 11. I don't really like the sound of that.

I do see the point in lynching levi, I'm just not sure it's optimal...

[serrapaladin]

Levi, do you think that Safety's flip objectively looks as though he was scum?

[serrapaladin]

Fuzzy and tne flipped light blue. Safety flipped yellow.
This could mean he's a) just a town PR b) 3rd party or c) scum, which is unfortunately very unhelpful...

[serrapaladin]

I don't think this setup is bastardy enough for that. The only thing I could reasonably see happening is a non-sane cop, but even that's a stretch in such a small game.

I think it's safe to say that either Safety was scum or you're lying.

At the moment, I think the lack of explicit flip might be a balancing factor.

I'm not so sure anymore that slendy is actually a player in this game, given that flavor has been implying everyone is at least disguised as a human. I don't think slendy acting human is likely. Then, if we were to kill slendy, it wouldn't really make sense to still have scum among us delivering townies to slendy. I think the NK can be attributed to slendy, so it doesn't make much sense to have him as killable 3rd party.

My current speculation: 2 or 3 scum among our ranks, delivering a townie per night to slendy, who isn't playable. Maybe 2 scum and a traitor, if levi is telling the truth. In that case, Safety could have been the first scum and the No-Night a result of slendy losing an ally. Except why would that skip all night actions?

Levi, how exactly is the "commuting" thing mentioned in your PR? Please be as specific as you can without quoting it.

I'm actually now worried by Yates' claim that he'll be confirmed town tomorrow. Yates, if you're an activated IC, could you do it today?

Problem is, if there are 3 scum alive, and we mislynch, they win, so I could see Yates' delay tactic as a way to guarantee the win with a mislynch.

I'm still very confused...

[serrapaladin]

Link

Basically your role PM lying to you only occurs in bastard games, which this doesn't appear to be. You'd usually get some sort of disclaimer if your PM might actively lie to you.

[serrapaladin]

Am I the only one worried about Yates' claim that he'll be mod-confirmed town tomorrow? I might be paranoid, but I feel that might mean we're in MyLo.

In light of that, I would sort of like a claim from him. Opinions?

[serrapaladin]

Actually, Yates, why did bait the N1 investigation if you can be mod-confirmed town?

Finally, if ANYONE is getting investigated tonight, it's me. So why not let that result speak for itself?

My role *will* be mod confirmed tomorrow one way or another.

Oh yeah... and then there's the fact I will be mod confirmed Town tomorrow. *shrug* It is what it is.

[serrapaladin]

No he didn't. He claimed a role that can be converted to a scum role.

Want to comment on Yates?

[serrapaladin]

Except if Safety is town and yellow is the label for PR's. So tell me, why did you bait the N1 investigation?

[serrapaladin]

You'd better be right about this.

Intent to Hammer: Levi

Marangal & Mhork: Any comments?
Levi: Please post you final reads.

[serrapaladin]

Lol fuzzy, Paddy's day got you a bit confused?

Yates gets lynched tomorrow if his story doesn't check out. Ree's logic isn't exactly what I'm thinking, but there's a good point to be made about keeping Levi alive just being too risky.

I don't think Yates was close enough to being lynched for this to be a gambit to stay alive for a day.

Levi, please do give your last reads before I hammer.

[serrapaladin]

As much as it goes against my

better judgment

paranoia, let him answer it tomorrow.

[serrapaladin]

they can't turn me, because only L/safetydance could.

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit!

You're trying to convince us that you have a role with knowledge of one scum, and only that scum can turn you?

Nope.

VOTE: leviathan

[serrapaladin]

I definitely did not get that when you were explaining it.

No matter, there's no way that role is true as stated.

If it's really true that Safety is the only scum that can turn you, but you know his identity, all it takes is a D1 claim for Safety to get lynched, and you're safe from being turned. That's an awful, awful role and not something Piggy would include in one of her games.

I guess we'll see when you flip...

[serrapaladin]

I didn't get that when you explained it either. I had thought that anyone in the scum team could turn you, not just safety.

Glad I'm not the only one...

i'm even curious to see what I flip because i have a feeling its not going to be traitor.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!

[serrapaladin]

Yates either comes up with a marvelous explanation, or we lynch him, ok?

[serrapaladin]

Levi's "town" wasn't the same as our VT's because there was the possibility for him to turn scum.

Safety was scum. The levi lynch was still justified.

Yates as an x-shot BP cop is interesting. Not sure what to think of that. Do you have flavor? I would have thought we'd all be fairly vulnerable, given the horror style flavor. Are you sane?

Confirming Marangal as town would be a silly thing to do as scum.

[serrapaladin]

I don't think Mhork is scum. I also feel ok about Yates and Marangal for now.

That leaves HD, Aj and Ree. Ree's been a bit too ballsy for scum. My vote goes out to HD, who hasn't been burying this thread in cases like I've seen him do as town.

VOTE: HD

[serrapaladin]

Meh. What I still don't believe is that only Safety could turn levi. That'd be entirely town sided. Hence his lynch was fine.

[serrapaladin]

Bad logic is bad.

[serrapaladin]

There's 1 or 2 scum left.

If there's 1 scum left, he may well be on the Mhork wagon already.

Town doesn't hammer townreads, so the FoS depends on Mhork actually being scum AND the other scum not bussing him already.

[serrapaladin]

^guy has a point!

[serrapaladin]

No? I asked you whether you have any indication of whether you're sane or not. Because this is HORROR themed. In general, such a small game shouldn't have a cop with sanity issues, unless it's hinted at, or there's more town power to counter balance.

[serrapaladin]

Except if there are 2 scum left this is MyLo.

[serrapaladin]

If there are 2 scum and 1 town-traitor who knows about 1 of the scum, all it takes is for levi to claim D1 and get lynched D2 for the game to be 7 town vs. 1 scum.

That's very town sided.

3 scum and 1 traitor would mean levi can either claim and make it 6 vs. 2, or get himself NK'ed for potentially 4 scum.

I don't know if I buy Yates' x-shot BP cop...that's a pretty overpowered role for a Mini.

I'm sort of concerned about him also being a traitor, and the lack of kill last night meaning he's been turned. In that case, him attracting the cop investigation N1 makes perfect sense, as he was still town then.

[serrapaladin]

I didn't get the impression you wanted to hunt down Levi. You were defending him for quite a while, and didn't comment on his half-claim, while Mhork and I were pushing for him to complete the claim.

I'm saying that your request to be copped makes more sense if you're a traitor/godfather, than a BP cop.

Since we've already had 1 traitor, a second one isn't THAT outlandish, and I don't really like how a BP cop would fit into flavor.

On that note, do you have any flavor for us? Why are you BP? Surely Slendy can kill whatever it wants. Are you a Ghostbuster?

[serrapaladin]

Or - it's my way of making scum think I'm not a cop [or a threat] so I can get 1 or 2 investigation results. Just throwing that out there.

I doubt requesting to be copped suggests that you're the cop...

[serrapaladin]

@mod: I'll be VLA for a few days while traveling

I'll get a few posts off when I can, and I'll make up my mind about whether I believe Yates (hopefully...).

[serrapaladin]

I am indeed irritated. I'm trying to figure this game out, but it doesn't make sense... Yates doesn't like my suspicion against him.

From what I gathered, Ree voted me on basically PoE, and because Safety gave me a town read, which is silly.

No Lynch is bad. We'll be at MyLo again, at which point our best bet is again to No Lynch. We might as well lynch someone and hope for the best, or land in LyLo if we pick wrong.

I haven't fully thought this through, and it's not MyLo yet, but could I put the idea of a mass claim out there? I think it might give us a good indication of whether Yates is lying or not.

Otherwise, I suppose lynching HD, followed by Aj, is my best guess, although I don't have a strong scumread on either.

[serrapaladin]

wait, yates, are you a cop who is x-shot BP, or a BP x-shot cop?

Also, do you know whether you got shot last night?

[serrapaladin]

Wait, Ree, what indication do you have you might have been shot?

This game...

[serrapaladin]

SP fell into the trap by speaking out AGAINST the no lynch and suggesting a mass claim

Do tell? I don't think a No Lynch is a good idea, as it most likely just takes us to MyLo, where again a No Lynch is the best course of action. We get one more (and most likely only one more, unless town is vastly OP) investigation anyways, so we might as well lynch today and hope for the best.

These theme games are meant to be balanced, right? If that's the case, I'm seeing way too many pro-town roles for everyone to be honest, hence my suggestion that a massclaim may lift some confusion.

Safety was an anti-scum PR and Levi knowing the identity of one scum turned out to be pro-town. A BP cop is a great pro-town role, and we still have softclaims floating around.

[serrapaladin]

There are 7 alive.

If scum kills tonight there will be 6 alive.

2 scum of 6 alive is MyLo.

2 scum of 5 alive is LyLo.

MyLo means if we mislynch, we lose, which is almost as bad as LyLo. I refuse to believe that we have a cop that can stay alive for two nights after claiming in a game with 11 players.

[serrapaladin]

Look, I SERIOUSLY doubt Yates can get another two investigations. If he can't we might as well go for a lynch today.

The two alternatives are:

Lynch - Night Kill - Lynch
or
No Lynch - Night Kill - No Lynch - Night Kill - Lynch

I much prefer the first, as it gives us two chances at getting the lynch right, and I don't think cop-Yates will be able to get two more investigations.

[serrapaladin]

Has anyone here ever played with Safety? Is he the bussing type? I'll meta him when I have time, but independent of that I find HD the best lynch.

[serrapaladin]

That's a very simplistic view of the game, Yates.

Bussing Safety was almost a necessity after Levi basically outed him as scum. Levi was actually town at the time we lynched him, hence Mhork's and my resistance to lynching him.

[serrapaladin]

Rereading the game, when suddenly, deja vu:

That's a very simplistic view of the game, Yates.

[serrapaladin]

Meh, that was nowhere near as illuminating as I'd have hoped. I sort of want Yates to clarify the exact nature of his Bullet-Proofness.

I am pretty sure there are 2 scum and possibly one third party left.

Yates, why did you choose to investigate MM over Mhork or me?

If Ms. Marple is scum, I give up on this game.

I'm also feeling pretty good about Aj-town. Aj, do you think your claim would give useful enough evidence to be worth it?

My townread on Mhork is still there, but I could potentially see him as a candidate for third-party.

If Yates is telling the truth, HD and Ree are scum. Otherwise Yates/Ree is my best guess.

HD's recent posts read like scum being upset about being caught by PoE when he hasn't explicitly scumtold.

[serrapaladin]

Safety was doomed once Levi outed him, so bussing him makes sense as scum. I assume scum was aware of the existence of traitor(s) (if not their identity), so once levi claimed traitor with knowledge that Safety is scum, bussing was the most logical option, because eventually levi's flip would have confirmed his claim that Safety is scum.

If what Levi claimed is true and only Safety could turn him, the remaining scum might have known that, in which case lynching Levi (a de facto townie) makes sense. Even if that isn't the case, Levi probably wouldn't have survived for much longer anyways, so 'bussing' him quickly for towncred again makes scum sense.

I'm not saying there's anything particularly scummy about your voting safety and levi, but I don't like how you're insisting that there is no possible scum-motivation for it.

[serrapaladin]

2 scum + traitor is very townsided if the traitor knows the identity of 1 scum AND has an incentive to share (as levi did, apparently, because he wins with town). I'm fairly sure it'd be 3 scum + traitor with a decent amount of town power.

[serrapaladin]

Meh, assuming there's three scum, had I been Levi I would have waited for a D2 mislynch and shouted out "yo scum I'm a traitor, NK me to win" in D2 twilight.

Either is swingy as fuck.

[serrapaladin]

Hey Marangal, wanna comment?

[serrapaladin]

In that case Yates is truthful and scum is Mhork or Ree...

Also, BP negates chance of early scum victory, so 3 + traitor is logical.

[serrapaladin]

Ree, I would have played the traitor role opportunistically, as it should be.

Claim for town if non-Safety scum is lynched, else claim in twilight to get scum win.

You claiming you would have been all goody about it is fake.

Also, what the hell was the thing with your avatar earlier this game? Did you ever explain?

[serrapaladin]

Yates, Marangal, Aj are town. Yates, final thoughts? Aj softclaimed around the time levi was messing about with being a traitor, so he's telling the truth. I can only hope the last NK was taken out on Aj...

Mhork AND Ree must be the remaining scum?

[serrapaladin]

Good job setting up your fakeclaim for tomorrow.

I really hope Yates survives...

Why don't you claim now so you don't have the night to make it up?

If you get killed tonight I will happily let myself get lynched, deal?

[serrapaladin]

@SP, are you bullet proof too?

Why would you ask me this?

[serrapaladin]

Unless Yates and Aj are scum together (which I doubt a lot), they're both town. Yates claimed BP before Aj, so I doubt he'd make it up and get lucky.

The only thing that can prevent a town win is my mislynch tomorrow.

I'm assuming HD is town by his last post, so there must be two scum left. I figure that must be Mhork and you.

Why won't you claim now? You won't be the NK target regardless.

[serrapaladin]

Only other way I could see this is if scum has a rolecop. They copped Aj to find the BP, and Yates used that to make a believable fakeclaim. But that's somewhat far-fetched. You and Mhork being scum makes much more sense.

But fine, just in case Yates is scum, keep your claim for tomorrow.

[serrapaladin]

So you did target Yates last night then, huh? So you know his BP is down and you can kill him.

Also Mhork just dropped by this thread... No comment?

[serrapaladin]

So is Mhork scum or not?

You're scum, and the only way you're winning this is if you kill Yates and get me lynched tomorrow. I can only hope Mary and Aj don't believe you...

[serrapaladin]

You've very much overplayed your hand with that fakeclaim now. BP cop + BP townie out of 11 is basically balanced vs. 3 scum + traitor who knows 1 of them. If you have such a cool role, this game doesn't make sense.

I look forward to seeing your claim... I'd really much rather see it tonight, but I'm happy to refute it tomorrow, too.

If I were you, I'd hope Mhork is good at this stuff, because my feeling is you're out of your depth.

[serrapaladin]

Regardless, I'm looking forward to seeing the flip(s).

If Yates survives, this should be game.

If Yates is playing us all, I give up.

For now, I need sleep...

[serrapaladin]

MM's wouldn't really confirm Yates, but I think Aj's claim basically confirms him anyways.

The only way Yates stays alive is if a) you shot Aj last night and Yates is still BP or b) scum chooses not to kill him for WIFOMy reasons. I doubt there's a protection role out there with 2 BP roles.

Maybe Yates was actually roleblocked when trying to investigate Levi, and you'll leave him alive because you know you can roleblock him again?

I very much look forward to that claim of yours, because one or both of you and Mhork are scum, and I've had a townread on Mhork.

[serrapaladin]

I don't even...

[serrapaladin]

Huh... Yates, anything to share?

Also you, Ree.

[serrapaladin]

Just go ahead and claim. At this point, I think you're scum and decided to No Kill to aid your fakeclaim.

[serrapaladin]

Grrrr Marangal...

Hi Mhork.

If Yates has a result and isn't lying, we've got this.

[serrapaladin]

Yo, you guys know what when you say "I just want to check for interactions before I reveal", there probably won't be any useful interactions, right?

At the moment I trust Yates more than Ree, so I'd prefer it for Ree to go first, but I could also see the possibility of Yates playing us.

Still, it's probably best if Mary and Aj decide who goes first, as they are closest to being conftown.

Marangal (I hate you), why did you expect to die last night?

[serrapaladin]

Well I'm not. How are my maneuvers worse than Ree's claim shenanigans from yesterday?

[serrapaladin]

Not this game... I'll get over it. <3

If Aj doesn't feel strongly either way, I guess it should be Yates.

You're only conf. town if we trust Yates, to be honest. Scum wouldn't usually claim innocent on their scumbuddy, but if Yates is scum it's all wine. Hence I'd say a claimed cop is a better target than his innocent result.

Aj, how could claims really be contested in a closed setup? Yates could have been cc'ed, but besides that I don't see any possible contentions. Ree has been very bullshitty about his claim so far. I am the odd man out because I haven't openly revealed anything.

[serrapaladin]

Aj, despite your scumread on me, could you please not put the first vote on me in case Yates doesn't clear me?

Ree: if I'm still scum, who'd be my scumbuddy?

[serrapaladin]

Sorry, but I've been quickhammered a lot, and I've seen a LOT of games on this site end that way.

[serrapaladin]

I've made my view of the game pretty clear.

Aj softclaimed during levi's traitor claim. Then Yates claimed BP cop. Then Aj claimed BP townie. Unless scum has a rolecop or they know about BP-ness some other way, Yates and Aj are conftown. That also makes Marangal conftown as Yates' target unless she's a GF.

Assuming there's two scum left, that makes Mhork and Ree scum. Ree was playing some serious role shenanigans last twilight. I assume that was in order to set up a fakeclaim for today to get me mislynched. I don't think more town power makes any sense.

Yates is alive because he either still had his 1shot BP active, or so Ree could somehow WIFOM or discredit his claim. That's why Ree wants to claim after Yates.

[serrapaladin]

Because I still think Yates would be the more obvious target.

[serrapaladin]

Aj/Yates or Yates/No Kill make sense.

I don't think a setup where cop can survive 2 direct hits is balanced.

[serrapaladin]

If there was a Strongman and Yates is telling the truth, Yates would be dead. My current theory is roleblocker, actually.

[serrapaladin]

I'll get back to you on that.

[serrapaladin]

I don't see why you should have been targeted. I don't think anyone believed your cop claim, nor what you claimed last night. You've been pulling a 'boy who cried wolf' sort of thing. Particularly after Yates claimed, unless he's scum, he should have been the target.

I'm also bewildered as to how you'd survive two NK attempts, even if you were the target.

1-shot BP's are obviously here to mask the Traitor switch. 2-shot BP doesn't make any sense.

[serrapaladin]

I'm VT. Ree is scum.

[serrapaladin]

You've very much overplayed your hand with that fakeclaim now. BP cop + BP townie out of 11 is basically balanced vs. 3 scum + traitor who knows 1 of them. If you have such a cool role, this game doesn't make sense.

I look forward to seeing your claim... I'd really much rather see it tonight, but I'm happy to refute it tomorrow, too.

If I were you, I'd hope Mhork is good at this stuff, because my feeling is you're out of your depth.

[serrapaladin]

Seriously, what are you talking about? I couldn't have targeted you. You waiting for Yates to claim you as his target before you claimed is bullshit.

[serrapaladin]

I don't think so, no. Town

[serrapaladin]

*would be pretty underpowered.

[serrapaladin]

Welcome to the club. I still have to figure out how you fit into this puzzle, Mhork, but I'm getting pretty sure Ree is scum.

[serrapaladin]

What do you think about my reasoning about Aj's and Yates' claim? scumYates wouldn't have known about BP, unless scum has a rolecop. And Aj mentioned his role way before Yates started claiming.

[serrapaladin]

But why would it line up with Aj's claim then?

[serrapaladin]

So either there's a scum RB or Ree and levi both give "No Result" for being traitors, or Yates is actually messing with us.

Ree did claim, sort of. He claimed I targeted him two nights ago. Which I couldn't have. He can't just spew bullshit until everyone else has claimed and then somehow bend his claim to match the facts.

[serrapaladin]

Perhaps a No Lynch is in order today?

[serrapaladin]

Because yesterday I thought there would be a kill last night.

Why not? It's probably MyLo.

[serrapaladin]

That's bullshit, Ree.

Why would a Yates getting No Result when redirected to me make it any more likely for me to be scum than town?

There is no evidence for the existence of a Strongman, and Hider doesn't really fit with 2 BP's and a Traitor.

[serrapaladin]

Yates, do you have anything as flavorful as Ree's claim that he "shouldn't be afraid"?

[serrapaladin]

He's trying to paint it more like a mutual redirector, which I don't buy at all.

[serrapaladin]

Well, piggy isn't using standard definition, it seems, but the role Ree is claiming strikes me as very unlikely.

I've already claimed VT.

[serrapaladin]

Ree, what was with the bit where you were asking who my target was?

[serrapaladin]

Yates, did you get the same no result message as with levi?

[serrapaladin]

Oh fuck off.

[serrapaladin]

*that was meant to be 'I don't believe your previous statement.' My bad.

[serrapaladin]

Ahahahahahahaha haha ha, bad move, piggy hasn't been online since this afternoon.

Die scum!

VOTE: Ree

[serrapaladin]

Oh really, is 'noticed' what you meant? Do you often go long periods without noticing PMs?

[serrapaladin]

But from this afternoon?

Plus all of this is ridiculous! He's had like 5 different soft and hard claims, and whenever one becomes unlikely he amends it to hold together.

This is scum trying to slip out of our fingers.

[serrapaladin]

Also, how can you misunderstand your role until D5? Ree is not that much of an idiot. He's just scum.

[serrapaladin]

Why am I scum? Come on, you can't possibly believe all the bullshit he's been spewing.

[serrapaladin]

Wait, WHAT?

UNVOTE: Ree

[serrapaladin]

Now I'm just back to being confused again. And on top of that I'm probably going to be lynched for scum to win this.

I hate this game :/

[serrapaladin]

It was on levi, and I suppose that might have been because levi was a traitor.

Or Yates actually is lying.

I'm still not sure you were the target both nights.

Or maybe you did clarify your role, but it's something completely different.

Mhork is probably scum, though.

Still liking the No Lynch.

[serrapaladin]

Meh, Ree is probably telling the truth, to be honest, which sucks.

He said this thing earlier about his role lacking the investigative portion...which makes sense, I suppose.

Marangal as a GF sort of makes sense, tbh, as she brought it up out of nowhere against Yates.

Yates and Aj are still town.

Ree, why not at least claim something like PGO so Yates doesn't waste an investigation on you?

Have I mentioned I hate this game?

[serrapaladin]

The investigative aspect has been stripped from my role but that actually make me more useful and supports Yates' cop role.

I was going to suggest maf. traitor... but isn't traitor played completely different? Like tries to get NKd so it'll turn up with the scum?

(

With my role, it'd make perfect sense for my scenario...

) So is levy just failing at traitor?

I sort of want to say these two posts corroborate Aj's and Ree's claims now. I don't particularly see either of these early softclaims coming from scum.

Which is a problem for me, because I also want to believe Yates' claim for preempting the BP modifier.

Mhork is almost certainly scum by PoE, although I don't really have anything of a case against him, I'm afraid.

As I see it, that leaves four options:
a) Mhork is the only scum left
b) Marangal is a GF, in which case allow this game
c) Scum has a rolecop which facilitated Yates' fakeclaim
d) Ree deviously made up a fakeclaim that early and softclaimed it

[serrapaladin]

Except it doesn't really, given you also got a No Result on levi.

[serrapaladin]

Frankly, given MyLo, a No Lynch is the best option, regardless of whether the majority want Mhork or me dead.

[serrapaladin]

Yup, Yates should clear me tonight (I really hope he can survive another night).

[serrapaladin]

Ok? Except I'm town and actually want Yates to survive.

[serrapaladin]

Ree: If you're town, I think you seriously fucked us over by attracting the investigation. I genuinely thought you were scum for trying to beat around the bush with your claim. Now I'm leaning town on you, as your claim sort of makes sense and fits to your earlier play, but if there's another scum besides Mhork, I don't know what to think.

It's also weird that you would ignore the option Aj mentioned, that I'm only advocating the strategy because I know I can kill Yates tonight. It's not true, but it's odd you wouldn't think of it.

[serrapaladin]

I still don't buy that you would have been the target over Yates, but we'll find out, I suppose. Targeting Aj or Yates for the first time would have also resulted in a No Kill.

If Yates does get killed, it at least solves that bit of my paranoia, and basically confirms MM.

[serrapaladin]

Huh?

[serrapaladin]

Still don't understand...

Flavor is vague about why there was no NK.

My theory assuming Yates is being honest: I assume scum targeted you or Aj N3. Then Yates claimed 1shot BP cop, so scum used their NK on Yates N4 to remove the 1shot BP-ness, so he could be killed tonight.

[serrapaladin]

Yates, explain why you think you got no result on both levi and Ree.