[ACCESS CODE 1461] Paradox Prime - Endgame

[Desperado]

Since we're starting in LYLO I can't think of a good reason not to claim

I am AI39-263-270, a Science AI that falls under the "robotic" identifier. Each night I pick one player and one day phase and learn if they are alive that day. I'm still trying to work out what exactly this allows me to do.

Who are you guys?

[Desperado]

Scum choose who dies when, so this is the LYLO situation that they chose.

[Desperado]

I have no results

[Desperado]

I have a good educated guess as to who the mafia is in this lylo already. How about you guys? Or are you still working on reads, figuring out game mechanics, or feel the need for more discussion, (or perhaps a claim from me)?

There is a less than zero chance of me voting today without you claiming

[Desperado]

I have a good educated guess as to who the mafia is in this lylo already. How about you guys? Or are you still working on reads, figuring out game mechanics, or feel the need for more discussion, (or perhaps a claim from me)?

There is a less than zero chance of me voting today without you claiming

[Desperado]

I have no idea what happens when today ends.

Are you suspicious of my claim? Why are you inclined to vote me over Dan when, of the three of us, he clearly has the most information right now?

I think it's more likely that he seems to know more about the setup than it is that you're faking not knowing about it.

[Desperado]

I have no idea what happens when today ends.

Are you suspicious of my claim? Why are you inclined to vote me over Dan when, of the three of us, he clearly has the most information right now?

Kind of two reasons:
1. He claims human, so if he's town then we should be able to gate him forward or something, thus keeping a confirmed town alive.
2. You claimed

I am AI39-263-270, a Science AI that falls under the "robotic" identifier. Each night I pick one player and one day phase and learn if they are alive that day. I'm still trying to work out what exactly this allows me to do.

and haven't said anything else about it. It sounds like you can say "SaintKerrigan, day2" and find out what exactly? By work it out, did you ask the mod, think about it, or what?

I think it's more likely that he seems to know more about the setup than it is that you're faking not knowing about it.

???
Can you break this into smaller sentences?

First part: You claim human as well, so I'm not really sure why that makes him special?

And by work it out I meant I can't know for sure what my role does until we get out of this situation. At the moment, I don't understand how my role functions and likely won't be able to until we go to night and figure out why we started in LYLO.

Second part: Do you agree that Dan seems to have a better grasp of all of this than we do? He says we would understand once he claimed, but he's hesitant to do so. I have no fucking idea what's going on, and neither do you (it seems to me).

So what's more likely? That Dan is scum, is responsible for the timeline, likely knows why we're in LYLO right now, and has had more reason to understand the nuances of the setup than you (a VT) and me (a non-time travelling Robot)?

Or you faking not knowing anything about the setup?

Because I'm thinking Dan is scum.

[Desperado]

Time Travel

1) Each day, players can choose to send someone through a Temporal Gate into a

future day phase of their choice

.
a. That player will be told who is still alive according to the current timeline.
b. This information will be privately communicated by the mod.
c. Players are allowed to share any information they gain, but may not quote mod communications.
d. Players travelling to a dayphase in which they themselves are dead will create a paradox (see below).

The bolded is what I don't understand. There is no future day phase, so can we still send one of you two through the gates into a past day phase?

[Desperado]

I need a new computer, this is ridiculous.

Vox can you fix those please?

A rippple in the timeline, and the double posts

never happened

~ Vox

[Desperado]

I'd hasten to add that Desperado was the first to state as fact that we were in LYLO and felt comfortable claiming immediately, an action a town player would be hesitant to take if they were not well versed in the "nuances of the setup", regardless of this Lylo situation. While I believe I have grasped the setup more readily than Peregrine, he still has offered his thoughts on the setup (if briefly) and Desperado doesn't seem to take those as "extra knowledge" even though they are perfectly reasonable statements to make (I hadn't even thought of the '5 nights - do you have 5 results?' one). Meanwhile Desperado has shown some command of understanding the setup despite claiming ignorance (albeit ignorance strictly related to what his role does).

This is the worst paragraph. Let's do it in order:

1) "Desperado was the first to state as a fact that we were in LYLO" what else would you call this situation? Enlighten me.
2) Why would town be hesitant to claim in LYLO? Did you seriously think we would end this day with one of us going unclaimed? If no, then the logical thing to do is claim right away.
3) "Meanwhile Desp has shown some command of understanding the setup despite claiming ignorance (albeit strictly to what his role does)"
translation: This point really doesn't have any merit but I'm just gonna say it anyway.

I honestly missed AV's post saying we can't travel today. And I wasn't asking AV, I was asking you two.

I mentioned I was suspicious of his claim immediately, so for completeness I'll elaborate.

Knowledge that claim could produce is knowledge scum already have.

They produced the timeline, they know who dies when. So they'll know if someone is alive on a particular day or not. So it looks like a confirmable role but isn't really.

I don't understand what you're implying. That my claim is a scum fake claim?

Isn't the bolded...the entire purpose of having town PRs? To give town access to information that the scum already have?

Like, it reads like you're trying to discredit my claim as...unreasonable or unexpected within the context of the game? But then all you do is justify it's existence.

Can you go into more detail about how you revive, who you can revive, and how you "spend" a paradox exactly? The Aliens are the only faction associated with "spending" paradoxes in the rules so I'm curious what you mean.

[Desperado]

OK I'm switching over to my IPad for this, sorry for all the multiple posts my laptop is clearly bugging right now

The power of Time Travelling mod edits compels you! Quad-posts cleansed from the system.
~AV

[Desperado]

Couple other things I noticed on a reread:

However, I remember reading that there must be a scum at Lylo => one of the three of us here is scum

This is so forced.

It also doesn't fit with his criticism of the LYLO point in #33. He had no problem with me declaring it LYLO originally (and in fact needlessly build on that point) but then he "hastens to add" that I stated it as fact once he's decided to FOS me?

One of you two will be the lynch today. And if I were to claim you both would understand that.

You claimed, but I don't understand.

That means it's impossible to cause a paradox today because it hasn't been decided yet who's going to die today. That means scum can't kill tonight because they have to spend a paradox to do it. (or course if they did it would be really obvious who was scum because ostensibly a mislynch today means 2 people left and scum can only kill the only other non-scum during the night before the next day [unless the two people pop up during the Night of the kill which would make some sense I suppose])

In conclusion I want to be sent to scout ahead.

Also I guess I could claim because aliens can't actually kill me unless they spend 2 paradoxes to break the timeline.

This really sticks out for a couple reasons:

1) The first paragraph is a rambling mess than doesn't make any sense
2) The conclusion doesn't follow from anything in the paragraph above it (or anything in the rest of the message either)
3) All the talk about paradoxes (not just here but everywhere, including his claim) just doesn't sit well with me. The Aliens are the only faction associated with paradoxes in the rules, and unless he has a really good explanation for why his Reviver role includes spending a paradox of his own, I'm going to assume he's scum fakeclaiming.

I have a good educated guess as to who the mafia is in this lylo already. How about you guys? Or are you still working on reads, figuring out game mechanics, or feel the need for more discussion, (or perhaps a claim from me)?

There is no town motivation at all to voting without claiming.

This reads like a pretty blatant scum attempt to force a quicklynch, and is indicative of his attitude the whole day; he has approached this situation as if his supposed role PM gives him some kind of authority or immunity, to the point where he was asking for a vote without having claimed, and it positively reeks of scum strongarming a situation that heavily, heavily favors them.

[Desperado]

You've both stated we are in LYLO. Considering it's listed as day 6, and there are three of us, I guess that kind of makes sense.

But, can one or both of you give a breakdown of how the game *starts* in LYLO, based on what you think or know.

I've played time travel games before, but each player lived a game day, and mafia kills could only be on a day shared by scum and town, or the whole game was in a specifc time, giving each player different abilities.

I've read a backwards game, where people where revived according to voting.

I've seen roles that have had to give all targets in advance, so I kind of get that.

What I don't get is how this is the end of the game when we haven't played.

This is my understanding:

This is how the game is supposed to end. In the original timeline of this game, me, you, and Dan are the three who make it to LYLO. The Aliens decided this pregame.

That's it. I don't know why we started here, and I don't know what happens when we decide on a lynch. Nor do I see anything in the rules that gives any indication either way, which is why Dan's speculatoin posts in #8, #10, and #11 struck me so oddly--he says he's pulling that speculation from public information, but I'm not seeing it.

[Desperado]

OK, so what does it mean to create a paradox?

Is a new timeline created, like when a lynch happens?

Who creates the new timeline that the paradox results in?

It sounds like you're saying that when you revive someone, you give the scum another paradox to use, which is convenient considering the town is likely never going to know how many paradoxes the Aliens have at their disposal or how they're used.

However, I could revive anyone lynched today, barring myself. This is something I would do immediately if the entity turns up town

This reads to me like you are trying to convince us that there's no reason not to give you the hammer between us, because if you choose wrong you can just revive them and no harm will be done. I find that very hard to believe, and given that you've had that knowledge all day, I don't understand why you haven't voted yet.

If you know you can't be wrong, why are you so hesitant?

[Desperado]

Since we're starting in LYLO I can't think of a good reason not to claim

I am AI39-263-270, a Science AI that falls under the "robotic" identifier. Each night I pick one player and one day phase and learn if they are alive that day. I'm still trying to work out what exactly this allows me to do.

Who are you guys?

So pretend you are not lynched day1 (since all of us are alive), so night1 you pick a player and day phase and learn if they are alive.
If you said Ghostlin day3, you'd get yes. If you said KKB day 4, you'd get no.

But, that was according to the initial-scum-timeline. If a new timeline is created because of the lynch is not on SK or Platypus, do you get the old or the new timeline?

And your action sounds like it gives very minimal information (you get one name), whereas travel through the gate gives everyone's name.

@ Bolded: I get the current timeline.

It does not seem very powerful, no.

I think it might be important for identifying what timeline we are working with on any given day, but your analysis is mostly correct

[Desperado]

I'm waiting on Dan to respond

[Desperado]

On whom?

[Desperado]

Starting on LYLO doesn't really work if one of the players flakes...

[Desperado]

Btw peregrine. You don't need me to "respond" to contribute to a discussion. I frankly think Despardo is still scum because his argument simply cannot be of a town mindset considering it knowingly obscures what I'm saying and doesn't apply the same scrutiny to Peregrine. (It's not like he ever considers the possibility of Peregrine "faking it")

So what's more likely? That Dan is scum, is responsible for the timeline, likely knows why we're in LYLO right now, and has had more reason to understand the nuances of the setup than you (a VT) and me (a non-time travelling Robot)?

Or you faking not knowing anything about the setup?

Because I'm thinking Dan is scum.

##Vote: ActionDan

[Desperado]

Vote: Peregrine

Sorry Dan. I did consider that Peregrine was faking, but a) didn't buy it and b) didn't think scum would fakeclaim VT.

[Desperado]

Vote: Peregrine

Sorry Dan. I did consider that Peregrine was faking, but a) didn't buy it and b) didn't think scum would fakeclaim VT.

[Desperado]

wait.

why the fuck am I alive

Because this is day one, not day seven

[Desperado]

we have a one in thirteen of not causing a paradox with our lynch. and assuming scum are not retarded as fuck we are 100% causing a paradox today. the difference here is if we get scum then town gets to set the new timeline and can set dan to be alive at the end. if we hit town then scum can set him up to be a one paradox kill. ill take the 50/50 tyvm.

This exactly. We're lynching between me and Peregrine today.

[Desperado]

we have a one in thirteen of not causing a paradox with our lynch. and assuming scum are not retarded as fuck we are 100% causing a paradox today. the difference here is if we get scum then town gets to set the new timeline and can set dan to be alive at the end. if we hit town then scum can set him up to be a one paradox kill. ill take the 50/50 tyvm.

This exactly. We're lynching between me and Peregrine today.

[Desperado]

So are any of you guys going to give some thoughts on what happened D6 or what?

[Desperado]

maybe, but it's also just as likely that they start with some paradoxes available. Or perhaps a scum special ability that grants them a paradox

It would still probably be in their best interest to not kill and gain the additional paradox.

SK: I disagree that focusing on me and Peregrine would be bad for scumhunting. I think controlling the timeline is the most important thing for the town, and expect the scum to do everything possible to ensure that doesn't happen (more so than usual).

So can you explain some more why you don't want to focus on us?

[Desperado]

Sixty: Walk me through your thought process re: me vs. Peregrine

[Desperado]

I'm scum because of my claim?

I asked you to walk me through your thought process, not point at something I wrote and say "Look!"

Expound?

[Desperado]

I'm scum because of my claim?

I asked you to walk me through your thought process, not point at something I wrote and say "Look!"

Expound?

[Desperado]

Expound?

Why yes, we

were

a pound puppy at one point.

Excuse me?

[Desperado]

VOTE: Desperado

sheeeeeeeepp~~~

aside the fact that Peregrine isn't likely scum because he actually waited to hammer, waited until he had more answers and a bit more information to work with before he made the final choice making him town, and

AD flipping town means Desperado is Pretty much conf. scum at this point

, we also both decided that the puppy is a safe person to follow around during the day

WHAT?

Peregrine didn't post inbetween Dan and I crossing. He hammered at the first opportunity.

And the bolded is a special kind of absurd. Can you explain how you arrived at that conclusion?

[Desperado]

What happens next is the town gains control of the timeline and we use the information that we gain from every player being forced to justify a stance on either peregrine or me for night actions and leads tomorrow.

[Desperado]

3) The Aliens are bound by their temporality, and must therefore adhere to the current timeline where possible when deciding their kills.
a. This means that the Aliens cannot kill a player who should be alive in the following day phase, according to the current timeline.
b. This rule can be circumvented by paradoxes (see below)

This seems to be the relevant passage. Town gains control of the game by lynching scum, creating new timelines that differ from the original, and forcing them to use their paradoxes to fix the mistakes we make by creating a new timeline.

So I would have Dan to travel to D2 and find out who scum removed for the D1 lynch/N1 kill, have Dan hammer Peregrine, and create a new timeline that replaces the scum's picks from the original timeline with the two collectively-agreed-upon scummiest players.

So either

- scum kill one of their original picks anyway (because they are afraid of them/they're a power role) and spend two paradoxes to do it
- we're right about the two people we choose as the scummiest, and they have to either kill one of their own or spend a paradox to no kill
- they follow our timeline using one paradox like normal

[Desperado]

Aside from all that, it still leaves the start of Day 2 in a worse state than Day 1 (seeing as this Day 1 actually has something useful to start off from). In my opinion, Day 1 is about feeling around and seeing what people do, in order to be a stepping stone for future cases. I fear that simply going after Desp or Peregrine will short us of that feeling-around stage and set us back.

Right, but the reason that D1 is typically about feeling around and seeing what people do because there is nothing available to stimulate conversation. There will be more than enough information if everyone gives their take on what happened D1 and justifies there vote for myself or Peregrine.

[Desperado]

mod: delete that slip please?

Mmm...

Kanye, Peregrine waiting, and wanting to make sure he made the right decision shows townish intent. Normally, Scum wouldn't wait. in lylo, scum would just hammer at first thought, not even think of speculate of end game until the hammer was placed. even though that isn't normal lylo, I think the same principle applies.

Desp, am I reading the right game? IIRC, he wrote out all the possible reason on why he hammered Dan over you when he did it. It shows that he was in fact thinking of who he thought was scummier. You also need to take into consideration the time constraints that was in place when he placed the vote

This is all it takes? To give thoughts?

I gave thoughts on why Dan was scum all day...do those not count?

If Peregrine had given those thoughts and not hammered, I might see what you're saying. But he gave thoughts and hammered in the same post. You wouldn't expect townPeregrine to give thoughts and give Dan an opportunity to respond?

Excuse me for a moment. You're going to pardon my bluntness, because after two weeks of this I am really really out of patience. Either Rift Adrift claims a guilty on PeregrineV, or we are not lynching that slot. We are lynching Desperado, who is scum. Why, you ask?

Because what

utterly imbecile

scumteam picks a LyLo in which PeregrineV is their representative? No buts, no WIFOM, no nothing. If you're putting one third (if this is 10:3) of your team at risk, you're going to damn well ensure they are not lynched that Day and, hopefully, survive the next Day on a 50:50. You want a COMPETENT scum player, and one who isn't known to the site at large, because it would be really freaking obvious who was scum if, say, we had Sixty, Minimal and PeregrineV in such a LyLo.

What did we get? A run of the mill player with some lurkerish tendencies but a good head on his shoulder, a scapegoat, and a competent scum player who only gets caught by cop investigations. I did my homework in advance: I meta'd Desperado during CES's Doctor Who micro. Desperado is newish to the site, but he's nothing short of competent scum. The perfect piece to land in our D6+D1 combo. Sorry, grasshopper, but

I

know you. No puppy treat for obvious scum.

He dies Today. So, Rift Adrift, you guys either spill whatever result you might have in the middle of that flavor babble, or you sheep us, because this puppy is bringing home Spanish bacon.

And Tomorrow? Tomorrow we lynch Platypus, masters of "heeeeh I'm so bored but let's not even try to scumhunt TUNNEL TUNNEL TUNNEL on ActionDan".

Vi is going to yell at me for being obvTown and not wooooo~filly cryptic enough, but it's D1 and I'm out of

rrf

s to give already. You're welcome.
Thank you and good night.

Oh.

OK.

I'm scum because I'm good at being scum and Peregrine isn't.

Putting aside the blatant WIFOM involved here (as if you aren't the only one who can do meta?), have you considered the possibility that Peregrine rolled a scum PR that they can't afford to lose?

Oh, so Desperado just happened to go into D6 as Town with an extremely well rehearsed claim that was NOT AT ALL convenient for scum. Remember, as long as the scum have control of the timeline OR Town makes it public, Desperado's results are fabricated for him. Doesn't take a hint of effort.

hahaha rehearsed. Is that a synonym for "paraphrasing my role PM?"

Okay, first i'll say that in the PereV vs Desp, I am leaning more towards Desp being scum vs PereV, per my comments in the Dead QT and how the first day played out(PereV being kingmaker is a pretty large sign to his towni-ness in my eyes).

Can you summarize those thoughts? I don't have access to the dead QT.

[Desperado]

Most people didn't even post.

How many people specifically?

[Desperado]

Travel to Day 3

[Desperado]

Travel to Day 3

[Desperado]

well that sure looks like a scum claim.

I'm a robot. Can't travel, it won't work.

[Desperado]

Go on

[Desperado]

well your name is not action dan. and you used our portal charge for the day.

that means you are scum?

I don't think that's how it works.

[Desperado]

I'm saying I don't expect my attempt to use the gates to cost us the ability.

[Desperado]

why would scum who is almost assuredly going to get lynched want to deny the town any possible information it might not otherwise have? gee i fucking wonder.

step the fuck off and dont take your rl shit out on me shit head

I think your read of this situation is pretty divergent from reality. I don't think I'm "most assuredly" getting lynched at all. What gave you that impression?

[Desperado]

Minimal thinks saint is scum chainsaw defending me while mistakenly thinking she was chainsawing her other teammate, kanye.

I know, it didn't make sense the first time either. It's too bad that the last time I saw minimal not making any sense they were town.

[Desperado]

I actually see several people who read me as town and a couple of vocal people who want to lynch me for either wifomy meta bullshit or whatever nonsense minimal is using to justify their vote.

And my limited understanding of the dead QT is that most people didn't even participate...in which case whatever 90% you are talking about still won't be enough to lynch me.

Now that you mention it though, can I get a summary of these comments and the rest of the QT?

[Desperado]

Travel to Day 3

What was this supposed to accomplish?

When it doesn't work my robot status will be confirmed.

[Desperado]

subtle discrediting, nice.

It wasn't meant to be subtle.

[Desperado]

Sixty presented a good case on despo, though, so we are rethinking.

I don't understand. His case on me is that I'm good at scum and Peregrine isn't, so scum put me in LYLO. His case should reinforce your idea that scum wouldn't put forth their most valuable members due to the exposure (and subsequent vote on Peregrine). Yet you say you are rethinking it. Why?

And I considered all of those possibilities on my own. Coupled with the points Kerrigan brought up in #213 and Ghostlin's catalyst, I didn't see any downside.

[Desperado]

No, you didn't fix anything.

He said your case was good. Your case is that I'm good at scum and Peregrine isn't. That's the basic assumption behind the case.

So why then is Rift Adrift "rethinking" his original read (that Peregrine is the sacrificial scum because "the argument that scum wouldn't send their best or even their second best to the LYLO situation due to the exposure, however, resonates like a tympani" when all you've done is confirm that Peregrine is not good at playing scum?

[Desperado]

So we're thinking that Desperado-Town would pull a Gate move Today when he doesn't

think

(mind the wording, it's not

know

) that it doesn't work like that. No discussion with the other players, no reads provided, no anything.

No. This is caught scum, this is how he acts as scum. This lynch is going through, no ifs and no buts, doesn't matter what the Gate result is. There's no reason and no rationale for DesperadoTown to be acting the way he is.

400 miles+ today. This puppyhalf is off to bed. Let me wake up to a nice wagon on scum, please and thank you.

"This is how he acts as scum" strikes me as a statement that requires support and further explanation. How am I acting and how have I acted like it before?

[Desperado]

I didn't know how the time travel worked and I didn't ask because I didn't think I needed to. The mod having to add this situation to the rule list vindicates that.

Tierce, for all of your talk about how much you know about me you aren't putting your knowledge to good use. Does your knowledge of my scum meta indicate to you that I would have used the gate like that? Or are you just confirmation biasing all over this thread?

Does your knowledge of my town meta indicate to you that I'm capable of stupid things when I'm town? Yes it does. So why are you ignoring that in favor of your bullshit meta scum read on me that is so full of WIFOM that I honestly can't believe you're hammering it this hard.

[Desperado]

Excerpt from Doctor le Font's Diary (July 6th, 2987)

When we first developed the temporal gates, Pritchard wanted to vote on who got to test it first. That little bastard thought he could charm his way into the future, even though MY contribution had been far superior! Well, I didn't care to stand upon ceremony. I simply shouted my intentions clear for all to hear as I ran into the temporal field. Well, that was two hours...or rather, two weeks ago. Now I just need to figure out where I am.

Spoiler: Non-flavour Clarification

You don't vote on who travels through time. Simply bold something like:

Travel to Day X

and I'll resolve the rest. However, you are unable to use the Gates today.

Everyone knew the exact words.

And everyone knew the results because I told you I'm a Robot and the mod told you what happens if I try to use the gates here:

Clarification

One player through the gate per day.
Players go through the gate by bolding

Travel to Day X

If a Gate is used up, players receive the following message:

SYSERR 404 //
TGT //
TRACE: Gate inaccessible

Rebooting...

Players who cannot use a gate spend the Gate charge by attempting to use it.

These rules now going in the OP.

[Desperado]

PS why did you ignore everything else I said? Starting to realize that your bullshit meta case is falling apart right in front of your eyes?

Take the blinders off and start figuring out what's

really

going on here, because whatever you thought was going on when we were at LYLO isn't even tenuous anymore. It's self-destructed.

[Desperado]

We are going to do something, Mr. Look At Me I Have No Paranoia Of Tierce At All Even Though She Completely Blindsided Me In Our Last Game.

That stupid RVS hammer completely took me out of that game and you played everyone like a fiddle, not just me. I don't think this situation is really comparable, so why should I feel paranoid about you? Your push on me is genuine, it's just monumentally stupid.

Unvote
Vote: Desperado

[Desperado]

My case on Desp from the QT was that his whole day one play was manufactured, not only was his first thought in a bizarre not-really-LyLo to start a massclaim, but he also has a powerful role to back it up, and my reading of the first two pages just doesn't make sense for Town-Desp. His play today hasn't made me any more believing in his towniness.

Manufactured in what way?

And your perspective on the LYLO situation is colored by your knowledge of the dead QT. What would you have done if you were thrust into a LYLO situation with no other information and no way of obtaining any?

I'm also curious to know what you see in my role that no one else is. Seems to me that most people assume it's a fakeclaim because it can only obtain information that is easily fabricated. Can you explain some more?

[Desperado]

I just don't see how you would instinctively assume it's a gimmick and not a legitimate LYLO situation. Can you walk me through that?

Why are you being vague? I'm asking you to tell me how you perceive my role to be powerful.

[Desperado]

No, Tierce has argued that I was present at the LYLO situation because I am a competent scum player and Peregrine is not.

I don't understand what general competence as a mafia player has to do with my ability to understand this specific theme and mechanic.

PEdit: Are you suggesting that the events of D1 will play no role in the final outcome of the game?

[Desperado]

Read 45. I kind of break it down the way I see it.

It'll be interesting to see how truthful you were about this. 25%? 50%?

@ Kerrigan: Can you go into more detail about why DGB/Platypus is not the kind of player to fake that kind of frustration?

[Desperado]

Why? Why is it so important for town to have control of the timeline when, if scum have paradoxes through their control of the timeline, this is basically a game with normal nightkills?

Hold that thought.

Are you saying that the D1 lynch/N1 kill are more likely town? Controlling the timeline in this way doesn't efficiently deprive the scum of a night kill/paradoxes. It only hampers their ability to control the town.

I'm not really sure what you're asking? And you answer your own question: I think it's important for the town to control the timeline in order to hinder the scum's ability to control the town.

Why are you so curious about the contents of the qt?

Because it's part of the game state that I don't have access to a never will.

[Desperado]

What hesitation?

Peregrine had intent to vote on Thursday, said he has limited access on weekends on Friday as Dan and I went at each other, and then came in on Sunday and hammered.

[Desperado]

Desperado's at L-3? Gotta fix that.

Vote: Desperado

What are your thoughts on the D6 events?

[Desperado]

I'm not really sure what you're asking? And you answer your own question: I think it's important for the town to control the timeline in order to hinder the scum's ability to control the town.

Let me rephrase...
In the original timeline created by scum, what do you think the d1/n1 players most likely have as their alignment?

Yes I realize hampering the scum's ability to kill who they want to kill is a good idea. I don't understand the zealous movement to make sure that occurs. Even if we fail to correctly control the timeline, how is that any different from a normal game? People are getting too wrapped up in the mechanics of the game.

I don't really look at it like we are too wrapped up in the mechanics. The impetus for this discussion itself is that we are lynching between Peregrine and myself, and it is among the reasons why.

Because it's part of the game state that I don't have access to a never will.

Why are you making this difficult?

You don't want to read a particular person's posts in there?
=OS

I don't think I'm making anything difficult. A summary of the events and activity of the thread is and has been the request. Can you provide it? if not, why are we talking about this?

[Desperado]

I normally don't suscribe to "too dumb to be scum" but I'm thinking I might have to buy a subscription to their newsletter with the portal play.

I don't think doing dumb stuff is Desperado's style no matter what his alignment. It seemed more like a purposefully obstructive move by someone who expects to be lynched today or tomorrow. And the obstruction looks scum motivated.

Or I genuinely didn't think it would waste the gate use because that wasn't in the rules and had to be added by the mod later.

And at no point have I expected to get lynched so I'm not really sure how that plays into this.

[Desperado]

No it didn't occur to me.

Because I expect Peregrine to get lynched, and I'm confirmed town once that happens. That was a silly question.

[Desperado]

Yes, really.

[Desperado]

Yes, really.

Have there been any signs of a Pere lynch besides SK's recent vote?
Would you like to contribute a case to convince people of why Pere is scum?

I asked you to discuss the D6 events and you deflected the question, so if you aren't interested in discussing it why should I?

[Desperado]

I didn't deflect! I just wanted to know if there was any specific part of the D6 events you wanted me to be looking at, because there were about a billion events that went down.

...what?

D6 wasn't even three full pages. I just gave you another opportunity to discuss it and you deflected again, in exactly the same manner.

Why are you so hesitant to talk about it?

[Desperado]

Minimalscum and Sixtytown are the only two things I'm comfortable saying right now. I'll be able to tell you more once I see where everyone decides to vote between me and Pere.

[Desperado]

Minimalscum and Sixtytown are the only two things I'm comfortable saying right now. I'll be able to tell you more once I see where everyone decides to vote between me and Pere.

shouldnt the expressed voting preference or lackthereof tell you more than enough if your scummetrics revolve around whether or not they are voting you?

I don't really understand your question. Minimal isn't voting me and Sixty technically is depending on how you feel about proxy votes.

I guess I could try to answer though...not really, because "expressed voting preference" and "actual vote" are not necessarily the same, so I can't make confident declarations until then.

@ SSK: Not really, and I'm not really interested in casing confirmed scum.

[Desperado]

Also, barking back and forth with the other puppyhalf, we're still set on Desperado.

What did this exchange look like?

[Desperado]

Also, barking back and forth with the other puppyhalf, we're still set on Desperado.

What did this exchange look like?

[Desperado]

It came down to your lack of scumhunting, your insistence that PereV will be the lynch given that you're the one at L-3, that it's not out of the question for you to be getting heavily bussed, that why the hell are you at all interested in what we're saying to start with, and frankly there's still not a lot pointing to PereV or away from you in spite of him basically not posting at all.

Why wouldn't I be interested in what you're saying?

Unvote
Vote: Peregrine

[Desperado]

Not really. Your #1 scumtell was that I'm not scumhunting when you admit that Peregrine basically hasn't posted at all.

Am I supposed to take that seriously?

The only thing I found interesting in what you said is you wondering aloud why I'm interested in what you're saying when I've named you as a hard townread.

[Desperado]

But Pere has posted and as much as you've made other people post about D6,you haven't reflected on D6 with the new knowledge and how, from both D6 and other posts, Pere is scum and thus how you're not.

There's nothing to reflect on. I don't see the value in going back to D6 to find things that show Peregrine is scum when I know it to be true.

[Desperado]

But Pere has posted and as much as you've made other people post about D6,you haven't reflected on D6 with the new knowledge and how, from both D6 and other posts, Pere is scum and thus how you're not.

There's nothing to reflect on. I don't see the value in going back to D6 to find things that show Peregrine is scum when I know it to be true.

So you're not interested in getting other people onto the Peregrine wagon?

If they can't see it themselves, how exactly is a biased interpretation of Peregrine's posts from his direct CC going to tip the scales?

Peregrine has been scumcoasting from the word Go and it's worked like a charm. That's as much of a case as you're going to see from me.

[Desperado]

"Lack of engagement" you've got to be joking.

[Desperado]

Nope!

Tell me, dahling--who is scum besides PeregrineV?

Minimal.

How is PeregrineV scum

He got a scum PM.

and how and why are the other players not seeing it?

Seems like a question you should be asking the other players.

Where are your Townreads and scumreads?

I've given the reads I'm comfortable with giving.

What are your ideas for how to handle the timeline?

Don't really care. I'll never be allowed to make one it and doesn't affect me otherwise.

I thought Tierce's "I can't even believe you aren't even a little paranoid about me after CES' game!" was 100% town, but choosing me over Peregrine because of "lack of engagement" and "not scumhunting" is straight up outrageous. As such, Minimalscum and Peregrinescum are the only things I'm confident in saying right now.

"Lack of engagement" you've got to be joking.

Your posts come off as robotic. Are you roleplaying?

Do I look like someone who roleplays? Ask Tierce if you need help.

[Desperado]

...please explain how you're not ever going to be allowed to make a timeline. Doesn't it follow that if you're lynched Today and flip Town, you'll be revived? I brought this up before. How come Desperado-Town keeps forgetting it? Because it's not in your mind that you'll be revived, because you are not Town.

As for the rest of your post, yes, this is very much the utter lack of engagement you show as caught scum. You have nothing left to do but stall things out as much as possible without giving stuff away. I've been in that position and it sucks, because you know that any attempts to do more will just clear players after you flip, so you choose to do nothing useful instead. As Town, you would not be worried about leaving a paper trail, especially since /you'd be revived Tonight/.

I know you're not going to admit to being scum. But it's blatantly obvious.


PEdit: See above as to why he's being robotic.

Why would I want to be revived when Dan is already confirmed town and I'm almost certainly not our best PR?

I don't want Dan to revive me if I get lynched.

[Desperado]

And the notion that I somehow forgot that Dan can revive me

when I was directly involved in the part of the game where he claimed his ability

is seriously stupid.

[Desperado]

So you want you to flip Town and the apparently unlimited reviver to not revive you, when you can serve as a timeline oracle?

...what? Dan's #43 makes it pretty clear in my opinion that his ability isn't unlimited.

[Desperado]

So you want you to flip Town and the apparently unlimited reviver to not revive you, when you can serve as a timeline oracle?

...what? Dan's #43 makes it pretty clear in my opinion that his ability isn't unlimited.

While it does create a paradox, if it were to be used on townyou then your ability might save us a paradox later on. So, for you at least, AD's power is "unlimited".

Dan was open about his ability creating a paradox, but went on to say that he "isn't going to elaborate on what restrictions, if any, effect his ability to revive." Sixty was clearly implying that Dan can revive as many times as he wants, but I find that hard to believe and Dan's quote betrays that in my opinion.

[Desperado]

So you want you to flip Town and the apparently unlimited reviver to not revive you, when you can serve as a timeline oracle?

...what? Dan's #43 makes it pretty clear in my opinion that his ability isn't unlimited.

While it does create a paradox, if it were to be used on townyou then your ability might save us a paradox later on. So, for you at least, AD's power is "unlimited".

Dan was open about his ability creating a paradox, but went on to say that he "isn't going to elaborate on what restrictions, if any, effect his ability to revive." Sixty was clearly implying that Dan can revive as many times as he wants, but I find that hard to believe and Dan's quote betrays that in my opinion.

[Desperado]

Vote: Platypus

[Desperado]

This puppyhalf doesn't want to speedlynch Platypus. At least, not yet.

Now that the Awesome has been uncanned, we'd like some time to gather (the scattered bits and pieces of) ourselves. Not least because MC Maraca's recent posting looks like it's coming from scum with their jaw dropped wide open.

Took the words right out of my mouth

[Desperado]

Platypus, I don't think your setup spec is retarded or even out of place, but just answer this:

[quote=Vox's Rules Said]a. The timeline will extend to a feasible LYLO situation, i.e. at no point can scum dictate a timeline in which they outnumber town, or in which all scum are eradicated.[/quote]

^Why would his rules say this if one of the scum PR abilities is explicitly subverting it?

[Desperado]

Stupid quote tags

[Desperado]

And my goodness Desperado, do not lynch people who claim reviver.

I had a PR too remember? You didn't even use it when you had the chance...