Mini 1476: Dewey Decimal Mafia (Game Over)

[Mr. Flay]

Sounds good, I can go for that. VOTE: TheIrishPope. Anytime you care to explain that claim, feel free.

spicer: will I jog your memory if I suggest the 820s, English literature?

[Mr. Flay]

Fair warning, I can pretty much only post from my phone during the day, so not much in-game posting. That said...

L-1 on page one is quite ridiculous. Definitely keeping an eye on all those that have voted for TIP so far.

Why is it ridiculous to have a wagon on page one? Would you prefer some bullshit RVS for the requisite three pages?

Darox: why "ugh" with your vote?

[Mr. Flay]

Fair warning, I can pretty much only post from my phone during the day, so not much in-game posting. That said...

L-1 on page one is quite ridiculous. Definitely keeping an eye on all those that have voted for TIP so far.

Why is it ridiculous to have a wagon on page one? Would you prefer some bullshit RVS for the requisite three pages?

Darox: why "ugh" with your vote?

Because in my opinion rushing the day and wagon lynching like that doesn't give us nearly as much Info as taking slowing down a little bit. I mean say we lynched him on page two on day one, all we would get from that was TIP's role. If we took our time or at least didn't flash lynch him we would be able to get some insight into players meta and how they are reacting to certain things that are said, thus helping scumhunting. I think there will be a lot of potential knowledge lost it we just flash lynch him

You do realize that no one is talking about a flash lynch, right? This is a bandwagon. It's part of how you play Mafia.

[Mr. Flay]

HE WAS NEVER AT L-1! You admitted yourself in post 24 that you miscounted; Darox's vote only bright him up to L-2.

The Librarian looks at you. "Shhh!" she whispers. "No yelling. This is a library!"

[Mr. Flay]

*brought. stupid phone.

[Mr. Flay]

Man, ya'll newbies make NO sense. Why are spicer, moz, and notscience defending the guy who claimed scum? Why is Ingrid posting fluff? Why did TIP claim scum at all?

[Mr. Flay]

THIS IS WHY I HATE SCUM CLAIMS. HEY LET'S WASTE SOME MORE TIME TALKING IN CIRCLES AND ACHIEVE NOTHING.

HEY IRISH, INSTEAD OF DICKING AROUND AND RESPONDING TO EVERYBODY WHO TALKS ABOUT YOUR STUPID SCUMCLAIM WHILE SAYING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF VALUE, WHY DON'T YOU BE USEFUL AND PLACE YOUR VOTE. IF YOU WANT TO BE REALLY USEFUL, PLACE IT ON SPICER.

This post works even better if you just glance at Hobbes out of the corner of your eye, and think he's ranting and flailing.

In other news, I'm perfectly happy with my vote. I think TIP wanted to get reactions, but I also think he wanted to deflect criticism with "lol reactions". It's a much better scum play than a Town play, so let's lynch him.

[Mr. Flay]

He might be a jester at this point but that still needs to be lynched so whatever

Non-zero chance. Don't care, he's anti-town.

[Mr. Flay]

You're the one being obstinate.

[Mr. Flay]

Amrun is so Town right now it hurts.

[Mr. Flay]

That's the first sensible thing you've said all game.

Still not unvoting you, though. Why won't you be lynched, again? You might as well save time and distraction and claim now.

[Mr. Flay]

UNVOTE: TheIrishPope

How corn-venient!

VOTE: TheIrishPope

[Mr. Flay]

@Darox honestly his comment went completely over my head and I had no idea that was what he was referring to until you just now pointed it out. Even when I first read it I was like what the fuck is be talking about.

Face. Palm. Yes, my comment was because my avatar comes from ... English literature! That's it. Nothing to do with rolefishing.


Right now I like Irish and Ingrid for scum (yes, even together). Neither is doing a damn thing for the game. Kid A I could go either way with. Most of the rest are null or town right now.

[Mr. Flay]

Not sure yet if spicer is dumbscum or dumbtown. Hard to distinguish, might just be a newbie.

[Mr. Flay]

LOL @ spicer-scum making a reads list, listing several scums and leaving her vote on an undecided.

This.

UNVOTE: TheIrishPope

VOTE: spicer

[Mr. Flay]

Amrun, if you end up being scum after all of this I'm going to be VERY upset.

[Mr. Flay]

Because you're basically posting everything I want to, about half an hour earlier.

[Mr. Flay]

... dafuq is this game?

[Mr. Flay]

Fun fact: ignore feature doesn't work in Mafia games.

Kid A, why are you voting Darox? Your iso is uninformative.

[Mr. Flay]

We're establishing voting patterns. Patience, padawan... her time will come.

[Mr. Flay]

Make a case.

[Mr. Flay]

Hey

Hey

Kid A

Answer my damn question?

[Mr. Flay]

How cornvenient.

[Mr. Flay]

There's only 10 of us... I keep thinking I should be lurker hunting, but except for Ingrid and moz we're good.

Still waiting for Kid A, however.

[Mr. Flay]

This fucking game...

My vote is happy with any of the leading wagons right now. still waiting for kid a to answer the damn question.

[Mr. Flay]

Flay, let's talk a bit, shall we? What's your favourite alignment: Mafia, Town, or some obscure third party?

I like all of them about equally, actually. Townie better than PR, but other than that, don't give me Jester (I lost) and I'm happy. I'm better as scum than town overall, and better at late game than early.

Also, this is probably the spammiest I've played since...ever. It's interesting, though I can't swear I'll be able to keep up the activity level this high as things go on.

I like Jack from Progressive so far. Way better than his predecessor, which makes me think perhaps moz was just lazy/dumb/overly busy.

[Mr. Flay]

Just finished rereading spicer and Kid A. Definitely like my vote where it is. He's totally misrepresenting gorckat, given that it's not a policy lynch on TIP, it's a better-than-average D1 lynch. If the guy is indistinguishable as scum or town, we'll never know who he is. So without good scumhunting (which hasn't really shown up so far), he's a fucking liability.


Also, this bodes well:

Vla over weekend. Have phone but laptop

dyong

.

Will prob be unable to resist typos from

phome

posting.

Will

syrive

for succinct

amd

clear thoughts.

[Mr. Flay]

Yeah if TIP actually does flip Mafia it's going to look bad for Amrun.

[Mr. Flay]

lol wat? I'm on my phone so big post (not that there's something to rebut), but Amrun is cracking me up right now.

Show your work. I dare you.

[Mr. Flay]

It's not like a daykill is an autoclear, especially in a 10p game, and especially not with TIP hinting that he can't be lynched.

We should be able to use it like a double lynch, though. If Darox doesn't do what we say, we kill him.

[Mr. Flay]

Flay, detail the progression of your reads on both me and tip.

TheIrishPope

1. TIP starts off claiming scum, because lolreactions or because TIP. It's still a stupid distracting antitown thing to do.
   
2. Then he's useless for another 11 posts. ISO 12 he finally gets around to posting at least some commentary on someone else that isn't spam or theory. ISO 13 he votes Amrun for "having knowledge he is Town", which is lolcase. It does provide distancing though, without actually advancing a plausible wagon, and puts the words "Town" and "TIP" together nicely in the reader's brain.
   
3. ISO 16 he calls both himself AND Amrun (the person he's voting, for those reading along at home) TvT. Cute. Why not unvote, then?
   
4. ISo 18 he says "L-2" gleefully. If he's scum, that means he has buddies on the wagon he can count on to drop off as needed. Who is on the wagon? Flay, Amrun, Darox.
   
5. ISO 19 he claims "not scum, just stupid".
   
6. Then in ISO 23 he claims "unlynchable" and confirmable, without sufficient pressure to make it necessary to do so. More distraction.
   
7. Continues to fuck around, not taking the wagon or anyone seriously until ISO 30 when he "suddenly" realizes he can't use his as-yet-unspecified-but-clearly-powerful-please-don't-lynch-me role on himself.
   
8. Sugar crash. Goes after Ingrid instead of his wagon. By ISO 49 he reiterates that he and Amrun are both Town.
   
9. Continues going after Ingrid, including the now-famous "analysis" post 256 which fucking nobody bought. Why should we? He's not actually trying. He's just going "words words claim lol nope words" with no utility.
   
10. "But this isn't town motivated, gorc.". I'm just going to leave this here.
    
11. ISO 70 he claims to be "very good at finding scum" with no real evidence to back it up (one game where he named names on D1? Whooptybatfuck, anybody can hit a barn once in a blue moon, and you suspected most of the playerlist of being Chenoan's partner, AND called Telo Town before you died) and wants to be left around until LyLo where he can "work wonders". Yeah no.
    
12. words words words
    
13. Oooh, Darox is a Dayvig? Suddenly TIP is paying attention again.

Amrun

1. Amrun comes in all friendly and bouncy and making a goofy vote on gorckat. Null tell, probably just her personality.
   
2. FIRST reaction to TIP's scumclaim is not to comment on the scum claim, but to think about a different game. Wat. Figures it out, then... disappears for about 75 minutes to other games, and ONLY THEN comes back to vote TIP for the scumclaim. What changed? gorckat challenged him to selfhammer.
   
3. By ISO 9, she'd rather vote for spicer (the person chainsawing for TIP) than for TIP himself. Lolwut?
   
4. Then by ISO 11 she's outright calling TIP "prob town".
   
5. Then we get the big notfight between Amrun and TIP. This is only really interesting because in ISO 14 she says "I have you as a slight town lean despite of it, not because of it" - why? Where is the townread coming from??
   
6. But it doesn't last. Darox votes TIP, Amrun squees, and revotes TIP (ISO 16). Then seems to think he might be a Jester or something, but hey, he needs to go either way, right? This actually works regardless of Amrun's alignment, so nulltell from here on out. She also jumps ship to spicer first chance she gets.
   
7. ISO 23, the famous "Flay... I'm
   blushing
   so angry that I have a scumread on you but you're buddying me!" post. Do I have that about right, Amrun-from-the-future?
   
8. I'm just going to leave this here.

   Because you're basically posting everything I want to, about half an hour earlier.

   Oh. That's always fun.

   Clearly the words of a fearless scumhunter. Oh no wait, you wanted to live N1, didn't you? Why is that?
   
9. All through to ISO 48, Amrun is chasing spicer but would also be "dandy" with lynching TIP. No mention of me?
   
10. ISO 62, Amrun reacts to TIP's "case" on Ingrid with a resounding meh, and continues to attack it as lazyhunting for several more posts. Despite that, she's been voting spicer (not TIP) since ISO 29.
    
11. ISO 69, further adventures of "I'd like to lynch TIP, don't get me wrong I really think he's a liability, but here are several other people I'd rather mislynch first". Although she doesn't take the bait of me misreading gorckat to, y'know, attack me or anything. Much rather go after easy bait like spicer or Kid A.
    
12. ISO 73 is the first time she mentions all of this cunning suspicion of me. After. I. Suspect. Her. There's a term for that somewhere... it's on the tip Of My Gleeful Unbounded...Tongue.
    
13. I'm sorry you drew scum when all you really wanted to do since signups was play with me, Amrun. I really do.

All of that said, I'd still rather lynch TIP today than Amrun, because the case on Amrun (such as it is) is highly TIP-dependent.

Yes, I hinted that I had a town read on Flay. I did not do it BEFORE he said he had a town read on me.

This is accurate. In fact, you said jack and shit about me before I called you a Town read. Why is that? When did you start finding me scum? Show your work.

And before you ask, My townread on you was post 142. Most of your scummy waffling happens post-149 (and post TIP's retraction of claim/ability).

[Mr. Flay]

Ewww. Don't like the company I'm keeping on this wagon, however. UNVOTE: spicer - prob dumbtown.

VOTE: Kid A - evasive as hell, reads don't make sense, attacks Jake and I for being scummy without showing any work, misrepresents my scumread on half the game as an excuse to vote me.

[Mr. Flay]

the reason gork pointed out about spicer was pretty good, you think dumb town would do that?

I don't understand the question?

With everyone having a power role, I wouldn't be surprised.

I think I see what you're doing here, but... ugh, as Darox would say.

Hey, flay, I might have misunderstood your view on TiP. See, earlier I thought you thought he was scum right around the time I did. Then, later, you seemed to be going along with gorckat's fence sitting. You openly agreed with him as he was saying it doesn't matter what alignment tip is, we should lynch him. This seemed like an odd reversal for someone who had said TiP was scum. But then when you detailed your read of him, you didn't mention this at all. Can you clarify?

I think the progression is pretty clear, though it might have worked better if I'd blended them together into one ISO. I didn't start worrying about you not actually being Town until a couple of days ago. Rereading only made it worse, though there's plenty of chance you're not scum (which is why I'm not voting you...yet; lots of richer targets for D1).

I can explain further I suppose, but I really feel like you're playing dumb right now.

Darox, does your shot end Day?

[Mr. Flay]

Do you think TiP is scum? Why, if so?

Solid 20% chance (1/5, not accounting for partners). Why? Claim, lack of investment, lack of scumhunting, distraction, overconfidence, and appeal to shitty meta.

[Mr. Flay]

the reason gork pointed out about spicer was pretty good, you think dumb town would do that?

I don't understand the question?

You mean 188? Considering I voted spicer in 199, I think it was pretty good, yes.

[Mr. Flay]

He's one of my five candidates right now. So yeah, better than average, given basic combinatorics.

[Mr. Flay]

Not really. I mean, I'm voting Kid A right now, and you're probably last on the list, but everyone's pretty close. Hence why I have 5 instead of 3.

[Mr. Flay]

Hey Amrun:

When did you start finding me scum?

[Mr. Flay]

He's one of my five candidates right now. So yeah, better than average, given basic combinatorics.

why is your list of suspects so high? 5 possible scum?

I'm not saying there are five scum in the game. I'm saying there are five people I think have a good chance of being scum. Not all of them are linked to each other, these are mostly solo reads because Day One is like that.

I don't understand the question?

I thought it was pretty easy to follow but ok

This was your reason for voting Spicer

LOL @ spicer-scum making a reads list, listing several scums and leaving her vote on an undecided.

This.

UNVOTE: TheIrishPope

VOTE: spicer

later you do this

UNVOTE: spicer - prob dumbtown.

Do you really think dumb town would do that?

Reading for context is tech:

Not sure yet if spicer is dumbscum or dumbtown. Hard to distinguish, might just be a newbie.

spicer is hard to read because he seems so ignorant. Not lolstupid like TIP, just bumbling. Could be a cover, could be not. He's not thinking things through very far when he posts, which is sorta antitown and sorta scummy and a LOT n00b.

tl;dr: He's still in my Final Five.

[Mr. Flay]

Do you think there are 3 scum?

Depends on the role distribution. If TIP really is some sort of lynch-canceling role, then maybe. More likely we have two, but that '3' is about a suspect list, not a setup speculation.

[Mr. Flay]

Why is it so hard to get you to answer a simple question...

Do you think dumb town would make a list of scum reads and vote someone else?

YES. A thousand times, fucking yes. If he's really as dumb as he presents, then yes.

There's a good chance he's scum instead. Why are you trying to get me to say one or the other when you know damn well this isn't a game of absolutes?

[Mr. Flay]

*shrug* I don't know why reading comprehension is so hard in this game. I feel like post 549, post 530, and post 199 laid it out pretty clearly. He's got a good chance of being scum, but I like other candidates better, mostly because they're being more aggressively damaging to the game.

[Mr. Flay]

I never said.

Kid A
TheIrishPope | spicer1209 | Ingrid (weakly, mostly from lack of content)
Amrun

A couple of flips will change that list, of course.

[Mr. Flay]

Think the answer is pretty clear, myself.

So, can I get an answer to 465 yet?

[Mr. Flay]

Out of curiosity, have you read the entire game yet, Sundy?

Amished tell is some sort of bullshit tell about criticizing the person you replaced.

[Mr. Flay]

So how do you feel about Darox's roleclaim?

[Mr. Flay]

And then, as the rest of his ISO is almost exclusively some sort of complaint and very little content. It felt very much like active lurking, and every time it continued, it made me feel worse about him. TiP asked him if he preferred town or scum and he had no problem writing a paragraph about it, but the content gets one sentence?

This is frankly the only part of your 'analysis' that is worth responding to. I am posting briefly and often, which is unusual for me (usually I love walls every two days), but there's a very simple reason for that: Most of my posts have been on my phone, and the pace of this game is such that I would get buried in a hurry if I waited until I was home from work. And I've spent a LOT of time scratching my head at this game and the "unorthodox" play (TIP, Ingrid), the lurking and refusal to answer posts (Ingrid, Kid A). So yeah, my content has been lower while others people's has. I waited how long for Kid A to respond? I have waited how long for this post from you? We spent how long arguing about TIP's clever little claim? This game is not going well, even for Day One. Wagons are weak and fleeting, claims and breadcrumbs are plentiful, and people are Not Fucking Reading For Content. [/getoffmylawn]

If I have to explain to you why "not doing a damn thing for the game" is scummy, then I don't know what to tell you. And I'm not going to apologize that my scumlist coincides with half the game's scumlists in some way or another... that's how you get wagons and lynches! Is there some fucking meta tell out there now that says "If you vote for someone who is scummy with someone else, you're scum!"?

I'm too mad to deal with the "policy lynch" question right now.

[Mr. Flay]

These wagons need to converge. We're more than halfway through the Day.

[Mr. Flay]

Also, it's Day One with no flips (thanks Darox). It's a fool's errand trying to discern teams right now.

[Mr. Flay]

JFC.

[Mr. Flay]

A Town governor can be overcome by a Scum Daykill, too. Not sure this says anything good about Darox, especially the way he swapped names and 'screwed up' the first time.

[Mr. Flay]

I chose Irish because gut. Namely that awful handling of his power role, the way he interacted with everyone who called him town/scum, reaction to dayvig claim and his sudden bout of powerlurking. Also cause it'd be no great loss if I turned out wrong.

I 'accidentally' shot Jake because man, how could I resist. Nobody ever believes a dayvig claim and yet everyone was taking me seriously and it had some nice reactions. Nothing I'd take to the bank, but better than "I'm gonna wait till the mod posts next cause I hate good times"

Plausible for now.

REVOTE: Kid A

[Mr. Flay]

Kid A spent a ridiculous amount of time not answering my questions too. And i think there were others, but I'm on my phone so can't check.

[Mr. Flay]

TIP (and Amrun, and gorckat) asked Kid A for a scumlist on June 25. He basically has NEVER replied, though he did vote a few people.
I asked him why he was voting Darox on June 24. He never answered THAT either, and basically hasn't mentioned Darox since he started voting other people.
He's perfectly happy to question other people and appeal like he's paying attention, though...

tl;dr: This guy needs rope.

[Mr. Flay]

thx for stalling.

[Mr. Flay]

Sundy? notsci? Time to choose sides.

[Mr. Flay]

Rolecop is even more alignment-neutral than Dayvig. Why shouldn't you eat rope? Why have you been so bloody unhelpful?

[Mr. Flay]

Rolecop has limited utility with two claimed/flipped powers already. And it says nothing for the alignment of his target, so the ONLY thing it will do for Town is out additional power roles. Likely we will be able to test claims anyway through flavor... If he is scum though, it is of high utility.

[Mr. Flay]

Names are tech.

I will hammer notsci if necessary to avoid a No Lynch but would vastly prefer Kid A to eat rope. Gorckat are you no longer interested in lynching Kid A, or are you just hunting about? I've had you as a townread most of the game, but you ARE out of town and we ARE within days of deadline.

Notsci: what makes you think the last 73 hours will lead to scumslips?

[Mr. Flay]

I'm pretty sure I've NEVER seen a Town benefit from running deadline down to the wire.

[Mr. Flay]

Also, Town can seriously suffer from the apathy that sets in with running out the entire deadline before ending each Day. Fatigue is more common than last minute scumslips IMO.

[Mr. Flay]

Town can seriously suffer from the apathy that sets in with running out the entire deadline before ending each Day

[Mr. Flay]

Last I checked you're both tied at L-2, and you were up at L-1 last (with a declared intent to hammer). Who's the largest wagon again? (not that that is the fucking criterion we should be using).

Ugh. So much V/LA.

[Mr. Flay]

quick AA9 lynch anyone?

i'm only half kidding

If only we had a daykill...

I can see reasons either might be scum, but I VASTLY prefer getting rid of Kid A. notsci might just be incompetent... and I agree with Amrun(?) I don't think they're scum together. Ugh this game.

[Mr. Flay]

Why now?

[Mr. Flay]

But I abhor compromise lynches. They only ever kill town.

...except when they don't? That's a stupid argument.

What do you see as the difference between a cop that divines roles and a cop that divines alignments?
@ Flay, also want to know your view on this since you made the same argument amrun did

Others have kind of touched on this, but Role Cop has a much higher utility for scum than it does for Town. Town does NOT generally want to out a bunch of Power Role information early in the game (or really anytime pre-massclaim). Town's most powerful weapon (the lynch) generally doesn't care if a particular scumbag is a Goon, a Blocker, or a Godfather... Scum on the other hand REALLY WANT TO FIND POWER so they can kill it at Night. Power Roles are very difficult to lynch (Governor and other negative-utility roles being the exception).

A regular (Alignment) Cop, on the other hand, is almost the most powerful role Town can have. For scum it is useless except in multiball games, which this almost assuredly is not at 10p. Pair that with the utility of comparing flavor information on any given claim, and the Role Cop becomes nigh-useless for Town, very dangerous in the hands of Scum. Hence, the lack of a derailed wagon.

[Mr. Flay]

Your best bet is to outline a case on your top 2 and if you happen to flip town I guarantee you I will keep them in mind tomorrow.

This.

Also we're at less than half a day. Somebody hammer one of these guys, if we No Lynch I will lose my hat.

[Mr. Flay]

Guh that post doesn't make any sense. I want Kid A to make one last attempt at scumhunting, but I also want somebody to commit to a hammer.

[Mr. Flay]

Sure, it's not like it's a social or team game...
:pedit: read the fucking thread, AA9. Deadline is in a matter of hours.

[Mr. Flay]

actually, her slot was kind of scummy plus amrun thought they were scum

Do you think Amrun was targeted directly, or was defending someone when she died?

[Mr. Flay]

VOTE: Darox - gut tonight, case later. Not prepared to put AA9 at L-1 so quickly, but would definitely consider that lynch later if she doesn't improve rapidly.

[Mr. Flay]

I mean, Amrun was clearing defending me.

Come again? Also how does that make you Town?

[Mr. Flay]

:scratches head: saulres' setup is making no sense to me at this point. So much negative utility...

Anyway, waiting to see if Darox's 2nd daykill is a joke. If not, lynching with fire.

[Mr. Flay]

Pretty much everything goes. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4645700 does say he asked his reviewers to check it for balance, though.

[Mr. Flay]

One SK with two kills, no Mafia? Iunno.

(almost certainly not, I'm just waiting on the mod)

[Mr. Flay]

1 day kill SK and a night kill SK and no mafia?

Daykill SK and NK 2-man Mafia would make SOME sense, given the apparent frequency of power roles.

Anyway, ohai saulres. So, Darox, care to explain?

[Mr. Flay]

Why not, not? Why unvote now?

[Mr. Flay]

vote: arcangel

Spicer + v/la replacement = bad

do you call that a reason to vote? are you out of your mind?

Jake, If you can't get over with someone, just leave mafiascum for heaven sake. and stop ranting my name where ever you can. you're not just playing a lame game but spoiling it for others.

What is your reason to ask to lynch me? Explain.

So, when do you plan to start contributing to the damn game?

[Mr. Flay]

I 'accidentally' shot Jake because man, how could I resist. Nobody ever believes a dayvig claim and yet everyone was taking me seriously and it had some nice reactions.

I'm pretty sure you never elaborated on the reactions you got. Can you do so now/point me to them?

I'm guessing your DK has nothing to do with posting in thread.

[Mr. Flay]

Is your name Darox?

[Mr. Flay]

UNVOTE: Darox - not that I'm certain you're not scum, but there are better plays for today.

..such as ensuring that AA9 posts or perishes. VOTE: ArcAngel9. spicer was a waffling read for me at best, and zie's done nothing to help matters. Contribute or die.

[Mr. Flay]

Can verify that AA9 interacted with me last night. Fits her flavor.

So Mr Flay, so someone who couldn't contribute must die. and that's lot better than lynching a scum?

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I don't think you're scum. Coming in here, immediately going V/LA, asking inane questions instead of scumhunting at deadline, then disappearing at daybreak? None of that makes you any more town.

[Mr. Flay]

Since it's an AA9 quote, I would assume so... I'm going to need that desk again.

notsci, how do you answer the Daykill+Nightkill question, if Darox is scum?

[Mr. Flay]

VOTE: ArcAngel9 - get in here and post. Give reads on people other than those voting you. Give reads that aren't OMGUS on those voting you.

[Mr. Flay]

ANYONE: Have you seen a Town Daykill that does not end the Day?

[Mr. Flay]

Ideal play is to use it as a Directed Lynch Part 2, giving us twice as many chances to hit scum. So ideal play for TownDarox is to claim it D1 (which he did) and then let the group direct it (which he didn't). You also play one-shot differently than multi-shot, and he didn't specify which he was (which is fair, since it might have kept him alive last night).

But...there's just something OFF about it. Negative utility roles like Governor and (presumably) Lovers in a 10p game, but somebody gets a Daykill?

[Mr. Flay]

Great* Idea is explicitly unbalanced, those won't be any help here.

[Mr. Flay]

Also, just so no one misses it because it was on the bottom of the last page, this should be L-1 again.

VOTE: ArcAngel9

[Mr. Flay]

Oh right, forgot when my switch from Darox was.

[Mr. Flay]

Hey, here's a fun question: Am I confirmed town? For those of you dunces who are clearly too stupid to pay attention to this game, I am a DAYVIG with multiple kills in a 10p game where the scum have a nightkill, Amrun died N1 as a BODYGUARD with me as her #1 townread.
Everyone in this game right now say if you think I am or am not town.

Not likely Town. You could be due to your enthusiasm about getting it, but the role makes NO sense as Town.

[Mr. Flay]

AA9 really did send me flowers though. How does that fit?

[Mr. Flay]

No bullshit a multishot non-day-ending Dayvig doesn't make sense as Town. Nice try though.

[Mr. Flay]

Really fucking tired of the lack of AA9. Can we get a replacement??

[Mr. Flay]

I'm guessing your DK has nothing to do with posting in thread.

[Mr. Flay]

I am aware that is your perspective but the question was for darox

Yes I'm aware, but I'm not sure what you expect him to say or do about it. He used the same words and no kill happened. Therefore either Post Restriction shenanigans, or the in-thread words are just him screwing about.

Also, I would very much like to see you comment on someone besides Darox and AA9. I feel like you are skating through today, and we only have 5 days left to lynch.

[Mr. Flay]

Argh. UNVOTE: ArcAngel9 - that was actually a decent analysis. Now do something like that every 3-4 days, please. I still have my doubts but at least you're not being useless.

Nothing really surprising there, but decent.

Darox. Have you given your number/flavor?

[Mr. Flay]

Nope.

What do you think holding back from a fullclaim gains you?

Flay, who do you think the scum is?

I don't have a good candidate right now, which is why I'm not voting. Of my old list in post 594, three have flipped Town by now. Ingrid/Sundy is probably my favorite right now but I need to reread, and I don't understand her sudden lack of access.

spicer/ArcAngel is still there, but I'm holding off in hopes of future usefulness (seriously that's the best AA9 post I've ever seen anywhere, which isn't saying much). I don't get what a Searching Lover gains us in this setup, so it's probably worth killing the role before endgame.

If Darox really is a multishot Daykiller then...I dunno. PoE says the role is overpowered and extremely dangerous. On the other hand it's a stupid D1 claim for scum if he DOESN'T have to claim the kill in thread, which lowers my likelihood for him being some sort of Day SK or whatever.

Not enough information. Not enough posting.

[Mr. Flay]

So its probably worth killing a town read becuz they might be less usefull than getting scum, Is this your strategy of scum hunting?
I must say, a great strategy!! what is that you planning to acheive after my flip?

Lovers is an extremely dangerous role. If we are in MyLo, it can become LyLo very easily if your death will kill two players. I'm not sure I see any reason you should keep hunting your Lover (or whatever, you haven't been very clear about your claim, which also inclines me to lynch you).

Also, stop trying to act like you're confirmed town. I've thought your slot was more likely scum than average for the entire game.

[Mr. Flay]

AA9 does it ACTUALLY and explicitly say that your lost Lover is Town?

Even if it does

, all that means is that you are a twofer kill.

[Mr. Flay]

I will go for either AA9 or Sundy today. Nobody else at this late stage.

AA9 is looking more and more to me like scum Lover trying to find the Town counterpart. Those last posts were the return of obfuscating crap.

VOTE: ArcAngel9

[Mr. Flay]

Darox will you please claim number and subject? I don't think it is relevant but your reticence is bizarre.

[Mr. Flay]

Jake, don't replace out. We have a convenient daykill to use if she is not lynched...

[Mr. Flay]

notsci, your whiteknighting is getting old, if not scummy. There is nothing wrong with lynching a player who is deliberately not contributing or engaging with the game. If that is "Policy Lynch" then you may want to consider what policy you wish to support.

[Mr. Flay]

AA9, there is no time to organize a proper massclaim today. And there is no need, as we have several candidates, including one who has already claimed. You're rolefishing or trying to pretend like you're being useful, when really you just seem to want to run out the clock.

[Mr. Flay]

You're still not posting details.

[Mr. Flay]

Will build my case against AA9 after dinner. Probably.

[Mr. Flay]

This is not a complicated case.

hello folks, Give me some time to catch up...

Starts fine, a standard request from a replacement.

^ a man with problems. lol

Immediate

baiting of Jake.

V/LA till Monday

No reason for this was ever given. No apology, no 'oh sudden car crash'. Who replaces in and then goes V/LA? Nobody with the game's best interests in mind... so at the LEAST we are dealing with an antitown slot.

so when is the deadline?

Next post. No 'here's what I've got so far', no 'crap crap crap shit shit shit', even though saulres had JUST posted a Vote Count.

And, need I mention, no further posts on Day One. No votes on Day One.

---

Note that Day Two starts on Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:17 pm. Almost a full RL day later, Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:21 pm ArcAngel9 shows up, but not with reads. Only to attack Sundy and Jake. It's now been almost a week since ArcAngel9 replaced in, only 3 days of which were V/LA. Zero reads.

On Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:25 pm we finally get some reads from ArcAngel9. According to the thread this took a matter of hours, but it's hard to tell... It does contain some interesting tidbits, like reading notscience as Town for rolefishing AND declaring it, and me Town (for the moment only). Somehow in this post she's gone from 'Jake town' to 'what if he is scum'.

Also:

LYNCH Kid A - Mr. Flay, Jake from State Farm, Amrun, gorckat, notscience

There is likely one or more than one scum there with a happy vote.. .. I am leaning on gorckat becuz mostly the way he was pushing on Kid A.

Amrun suspects were… gorkart, flay , jake and notscience.
Can’t say all of them is scum but one of them is likely…

Ideally I am looking at Gorkart is probably the best choice to lynch
If not , if Darok don’t come back with a claim, we could lean on that side

And also I would like to hear more thoughts from Sundy, so that I can get better understanding on her side..

So the common elements in this 'analysis' are gorckat, Flay, Jake, and notsci. Leaving aside for the moment that that is more than half of the remaining players, she ONLY goes after gorckat. notsci is a town read for one thing done early in the game, she's got me as Town, and Jake is...complicated. This looks bad for both gorckat and notsci frankly, but obviously only if she flips scum.

Ideally this now leading us to a MASS claim.
we should mass claim to sort the lynch candidates, atleast that's how i am looking at.

So this is interesting. She flips out at gorckat for demanding her flavor/number, but then turns around in the same post and asks for a massclaim. This bolsters my scum Lover theory significantly. Who better to want a massclaim??

AA9 does it ACTUALLY and explicitly say that your lost Lover is Town?

Even if it does

, all that means is that you are a twofer kill.

I don't know if you're making sense here. Let me ask you again, why you think my role is bad? you understood that i am alligned to town right?
if so, how is lynching me useful to you than lynching a scum. Explain that first....

Further stalling on details of her claim.

As SOON as I name her role as Scum Lover, ArcAngel9 flips around and votes me.. Also she asks me specifically to claim more than once, though no one has agreed to a massclaim yet and despite her having read me as Town until recently.

---

So, at BEST we have a Seeking Lover who, if successful, will cause two Town roles to die for the price of one NK. Correct play here would have been to only come out with that if forced to avoid a lynch, and even then probably only when it would confirm the partner as well.

At worst, we have a scum slot that has been unhelpful for pretty much the entire game, willfully and purposefully obtuse, stalling near deadlines, and may be looking for a Town PR to take down with her. Vote stands.

[Mr. Flay]

AA9 is being force-replaced in all games per the ban thread. I submit that if she is our strongest lynch candidate we NOT make saulres find a replacement with 3 days to go in Day Two.

Also, where the hell is Sundy?

[Mr. Flay]

Alternatively Darox could use his superpower for Great Justice.

[Mr. Flay]

Wait, TWO of you got messages?

[Mr. Flay]

You want to call me a bad player and you lied about your fucking role? Yeah go diaf AA

To be fair, she never quite said she was a "Seeking Lover" or whatever, she just hinted at it and we drew the obvious conclusion. The wiki also says Hidden Visitor is a thing, so a "Romance" Language that looks for love but can never find it fits the theme...kinda sorta.

Anyway, it's kind of pointless to rail against the dead. We are in bad fucking shape here, though the lack of kill is interesting.

[Mr. Flay]

That's not what she said though. We filled in the word Lover:

I am freaking claiming.

I am Romance Languages, aligned to town
every night i can romance with someone until i find my partner

She never actually said the word until much later.
Also, you can't talk about AA9 per a scold from...who? The mod?

Will try to reread and get a scum target, but it may be Monday. This week is totally insane.

[Mr. Flay]

Agreed.

[Mr. Flay]

wat

[Mr. Flay]

softclaim?

[Mr. Flay]

Just wondering why you chose to drop it in there casually like that.

Also, this fucking game.

[Mr. Flay]

Thats the hammy part. "I know ur scum and ill shoot your partner uf u dont bus" not exaxt quote

If it were really from darox hed have been shooting.

Right. Why would Town not just shoot/lynch you outright? The message makes no sense.

[Mr. Flay]

Bleh, I haven't read too much yet.

Someone tell me which pages are relevant?

All of it.

[Mr. Flay]

I have no town reads anymore. Fuck.

[Mr. Flay]

I have no town reads anymore. Fuck.

That's when the RNG helps.

Seriously? That is what you are bringing to the table?

VOTE: NSin ~ this'll do until I finish my reread, though I'm considering switching to Jake. His leadership has not had good results thus far...

[Mr. Flay]

Being wrong does not a scum make. What have you brought to the table? You have been just as wrong as I have.

I'll make a case later when I am not on my phone, but I haven't been driving the wagon from one WAG to another. I was willing to extend you some credit at first, but I'm starting to lose faith in you...

[Mr. Flay]

Hold up. Says I'm. Bad leader and follows me again.

vote: flay

Predictable. As Amrun said, until I disagreed with you you were fine with me.

How am I following you? Dislike of the NSin/Ingrid/Sundy slot is not exactly your bailiwick...

[Mr. Flay]

• gorckat
  : I like gorckat as a person, which makes him hard to read as scum. Also he will Not. Stop. Phone. Posting. Null, but christ on a bike does it make him hard to read, period... I do like that he was paying attention to the early TIP wagon and steered people straight, but that's not really a strong alignment tell. On the other hand I like his early scumreads a lot (spicer, TIP, Kid A, even his read on notsci's fishing in retrospect). He's pretty much the closest I have to a townread at this point, but I admit that a lot of people are giving both of us flak for the 'policy lynch' discussion on Day One. I'm pretty much on record as saying Policy Lynches/Wagons have their utility, not sure about gorckat.
  
• NSin
  (repl.

  Sundy

  (repl.

  Ingrid

  ))
  : Ingrid was a waste of pixels. Sundy came in with some kind of unholy glee related to Amrun's 'read' on me, which turned out to be...uhhh, much ado about nothing. I'm having a hard time buying her argument that she didn't understand the difference between Cop and Role Cop (#757 and neighbors).
  Sundy was excited to hammer Day One (#825, left work even to do so), but didn't manage to. That's a mild scumtell, but Sun dy's later replacement lends itself to flakiness rather than reluctance to hammer Town.
  NSin was slow to start reading, but at least seems to be giving honest and full reads now. Still, she's about 30 pages behind so it's hard to make a final impression...
  
• Jake from State Farm
  (repl.

  mozamis

  )
  : mozamis was weak, calling for a PL on TIP and then voting Darox for daring to put somebody at L-2. Really that was it for his three days of presence, though...
  Jake came in with good posts/activity and pretty good analysis, not afraid to go after pretty much anybody. But I guess that's what worries me... he's been after literally
  everybody
  at this point (Kid A, Amrun, TIP, AA9, notscience, Darox, gorckat, NSin, Flay, in that order). There's scumhunting and then there's shotgunning to see what sticks. It's not a scumread yet, but it's not a town read anymore. Unfortunately I don't think there's enough game left to really figure it out easily...6 alive with (probably) 2 scum means MyLo unless scum have blown all their kills already. [/setupspeculation] His reaction to Darox's fakekills do ring fairly true though. :shrug:
  Also in #380 he says Kid A is scummy "because he has provided no reads" but at the end of the post admits "I have not yet read the game yet, so I don't have reads. :shrug:". WTH?
  
• Darox
  : Ugh. Goofy entrance to the game, ridiculously early claim, dangerous/confusing/antitown PR... and yet unless he's lying massively about his kill mechanics (and I do kinda think he is, given his evasiveness... 10 kills??!?), I don't see how he COULD be balanced as scum.
  On the gripping hand, I don't see how a non-scum Darox is still alive on D3 as a claimed multishot Town Day Vig. My gut says to lynch him today to keep him from endgaming us tomorrow, whatever his alignment.
  
• notscience
  : Null read for most of the game. He's been better today but he could also just be lurking scum. I feel like he was more proactive as Town in the Newbie Game we recently played together. Unfortunately there's not much more than that to say... he's kind of a non-entity. I also get this weird feeling like he's buddying me - a lot of his posts defend me, similar to what he was doing with Kid A.

UNVOTE: NSin - I'll check in by phone tomorrow, but I don't want my vote sitting there while I'm on a plane during possible MyLo.

To reiterate, I'm in favor of a Darox lynch, a No Lynch, or a notsci lynch, not necessarily in that order.

[Mr. Flay]

It just struck me as very hypocritical in the reread. You do have some mitigation due to the replacement, but specifically yelling at one player for having no reads and then saying you have none (except that player) is odd. You seem to be a serial tunneler, is that accurate?

[Mr. Flay]

Flay, why are are your reads varying degrees of null except one?

I have no town reads anymore. Fuck.

[Mr. Flay]

Flay: I could theoretically kill everyone in this game if we constantly had no-lynch & no-kill. The game started with 10 players, thus 10 shots.

Yeah I think I know what you're claiming your ability to be. Still doesn't make any balance sense.

[Mr. Flay]

Pseudovotes are better than none. But I'll bet Darox says he 'can't' kill right now.

[Mr. Flay]

Prefer: notscience

[Mr. Flay]

Flay, that's what's bugging me.

It seems like all your reads being varying degrees of null lets you have the choice to vote whoever you want and escape reasoning.

Welcome to Mafia. Or did you miss that you are one of my scummier reads?

[Mr. Flay]

Reasons, or just lols?

[Mr. Flay]

Sorry, that was at Magua.

Jake, the prefer stuff is to tell Darox who to kill.

[Mr. Flay]

as far as I am aware there is no such role

This is a theme game. Roles can be whatever the mod says they are, and I have a strong theory about what Darox's flavor might be. Would prefer to hear it from the horse's mouth.

My problem with voting right now is my access is spotty while on vacation, and we ARE in MyLo most likely. Shoot first, vote second.

[Mr. Flay]

Claiming day vig with shots and then not being able to cough up additional shots does not seem like a winning scum move to me.

On the contrary, he first claimed Day Vig, Not Otherwise Specified. THEN he claimed multiple shots. THEN he claimed restrictions on his shots. THEN he explained what the restriction is (whether it's true or not is another question). Sounds like a classic fake claim to me.

Also, Magua, you haven't been here the whole game. Rereads don't give you a sense of the fucking absurdity of this game, I don't think. Pair that with what I already said (vacation+MyLo) and no you're not going to see a strong read/vote from me right now. Jake was the closest to a town read until today (gorckat grew in the reread). Most of my scumreads are already dead.

[Mr. Flay]

when there's three days left in the game in LYLO?

Excuse me? How is 6 alive LyLo? Or are you just assuming we shoot+lynch?

I don't like the bullshit logic in the last hours of this Day. We are PROBABLY at MyLo, so we should clearly let Darox shoot somebody and then try to rush a lynch?? Oh no wait, you want me to let Darox shoot ME by meeting his kill restriction for him, when I know my death will hurt town (because I know my alignment)?? Bitch, please. Darox has plenty of targets now to prove himself, though at this point a No Lynch is probably better numberswise. Tomorrow we can deal with this without the fake rush.

Because I don't see scum doing so blatantly a lurkfest.

Die, scum.

[Mr. Flay]

No seriously. I choose to believe Magua actually believes his bullshit logic. You on the other hand are doing the bare minimum, and have the entire game.

[Mr. Flay]

Darox could be anything; scum, Librarian-SK, or VI Day Vig.

Jake...I have no idea, frankly, anymore. His reasons for wanting me dead now seem convenient and specious now that we're in MyLo.

[Mr. Flay]

vote: flay

Lets dance

P.edit - you have, don't play innocent.

Hi Jake.

No, Jake. Let's lynch Darox instead.

[Mr. Flay]

I disagree.

Thank you for yet another valuable contribution to this game.

[Mr. Flay]

but it is mylo so we probably should be NL here if darox isn't going to kill. but for now I'll leave my vote on you.

Hence why I'm not voting yet (I actually think NL is the better part of valor today, with so little time left). I still find your reasoning weak, and you haven't really even tried to make a case on me.

notsci: Yes and no? I mean, you're definitely acting different from our Newbie Game together, but it's a bigger game with more moving parts. I just think your ISO is extremely weak and wishy-washy, and contains just enough activity to not draw the attention that bigger voices are. So I don't trust you, though I trust Darox less.

[Mr. Flay]

VOTE: No Lynch

[Mr. Flay]

my main case is gut plus the BS about i'm scummy cause I was a bad leader.

So you didn't notice that I dropped most of that once I actually did the reread?

Mainly I'm just wondering why who is alive is alive... [/NKA]

[Mr. Flay]

Flay is actually not scum. Going on vacation does not make someone scum. It just makes them VLA.

Jake, you really need to show your work. The way you've turned on me here is scummy as balls.

[Mr. Flay]

Umm I didn't change my read on you. I called you out yesterday and then when you refused to caps post that sealed the deal.

Why would I, who already know my alignment, give a "Vig" of unknown alignment the ability to shoot me? Especially when others (whose alignment I do not know) have already given him the ability to prove his ability?

[Mr. Flay]

Flay was posting in some bs thread ALL day yesterday when this one is open. That's not a townie thing to do in lylo.

Fuck you. I'm on vacation, as you clearly know from reading my siteiso. The only thread I posted in significantly was the ORGANIZATION THREAD for the meetup.

I don't post in games when on vacation except for the minimum. It takes me an hour or more to compile meaningful posts for a game. LyLO is NOT the time to rush, so this is what you get until I get home tonight. Tomorrow I am home for EXACTLY one day before vacation part two, so you should get content then.

Magua: Everyone's scummy right now (except you, arguably), but I'm toying with the idea of looking at who is trying to push a quicklynch in lylo of a vla player. That sounds promising.

[Mr. Flay]

My, isn't this cozy. Hi Jake, you lucky sonofabitch.

Massclaim? I want to hear NSin's excuse (for not killing themselves last Night).

[Mr. Flay]

My last flight boards in 11 minutes.

[Mr. Flay]

*shrug* I want to see one last post. They're obviously around.

[Mr. Flay]

Morning NSin. What did you do N2 in particular?

[Mr. Flay]

VT. I was beginning to think I was the only one after Day One.

Also, 1336 proves it's not Jake. VOTE: NSin

[Mr. Flay]

Also, showing my work:

UNVOTE: Flay

VOTE: ingrid

Nice of you to finally show up ingrid. Do you have anything to share?

Bad vote

Seb you should stop while you're behind

Defending the lurking partner.

darox: i don't like #26, especially when he hasn't given a reason for voting spicer besides bandwagon. it feels hypocritical. and this feels like buddying Amrun. all the caps lock trolling is annoying (although i DO enjoy a well-timed shift key), and no cases. yet he's acting annoyed with other people for not providing content when he's jumping from irishpope to spicer to kid a to ingrid to notscience, even when they don't answer his pressure (or the pressure of other players that he states as the ostensible reason for his vote)

for these GRAVE SINS, the answer is:

vote: darox

Sundy would like to be rid of the Town Vig, thanks! (to be fair, I was on that wagon too, but this was her first post after replacing Ingrid).

vote: notscience

Kid A has two decent cases to his name.

I THINK KID A IS TOWN.
NOTSCIENCE, NOT SO MUCH.

@darox, explain your logic on both. who else do you think is scum?

Sundy is now Very Concerned about who the vigilante thinks is scum.

VOTE: Kid A

That's not a hammer



THIS is a hammer

Did we hammer? I just left my team dinner at work to come in and vote before deadline :S

This one's fun. At the time it just looked like weird bloodthirstiness, but now it's trying to get two vote-creds for the price of one.

@Flay, check Rob's DN micro. Scum and town both had daykills, town was one shot and scum was multishot however scum had no night kill. Niether ended the day. Also, I think I read through a greater idea micro where scum has a daykill that didn't end the day.

notsci would like to throw some support behind my idea that Darox might NOT be a Town Vig, thanks! Also nearby posts are all about bussing Sundy by way of defending another weak player (AA9, this time).

I recieved a message last night somewhere along the lines of
"I will kill you, scum"
Claim your message.

NSin's arrival, as already pointed out. Jake what did you actually send??

I was thinking gorck/darox more personally, can you walk me through that nsin read?

Back to not thinking the Ingrid/Sundy/NSin slot is scum, and would like to think about it some more.

hmmm, I can see it.

Personally I'm more confident in Gorck scum.

This isn't town notsci

^ this kind of stuff is what makes me want to lynch gorc asap

Despite the bussing, NSin is more than happy to agree with notsci that gorckat is the best lynch.

Don't massclaim.
NS help me lynch gork
VOTE: gork

God dammit

I love endgame. Scum get so BLATANT (remember this is the MyLo day).

Why is NSin town for you?

Because I don't see scum doing so blatantly a lurkfest.

Most people I know actually put effort in as scum, but there really isn't any at all day 2.

Oooh, burn. That Godfather is PISSED.

nj

gg

I'm just going to leave this here.

[Mr. Flay]

Also, 1336 proves it's not Jake

why did you have to go say this? I was confirmed town when I stopped the quick hammer yesterday. I thought this was a slam dunk, lynch NSin and it's GG everyone but this comment just rubs me all kind of wrong.

Christ you're thick. I WAS ON MY PHONE ON A PLANE YESTERDAY AND NOT READING THE GAME FOR CONTENT. Stopping a quickhammer in 5p LyLo is 99.44% Town, but resisting it in 3p LyLo is 100% Town. That's all I'm fucking saying here.

[Mr. Flay]

Thank God.

This game has been the WORST. (there, now Darox can shoot me)

[Mr. Flay]

But town should've lost it the point where D3 ended with Darox not shooting.

I'll maintain until my dying day that Darox shooting at that point would have been a bad idea. We had less than 72h until deadline, which is officially the derpiest time for scumhunting. It's not like we had two good candidates for scum, and could shoot one and then lynch the other. Town was ALL over the place.

saulres: Your setup was fine (re: the dead thread). I didn't have all the pieces in front of me and could NOT figure out how it all went together.

[Mr. Flay]

I have no idea why Darox played the way he did with his role.
I have no idea why TIP played the way he did with his role.
I have no idea why Kid A played the way he did with his role.
I have no idea why ArcAngel played the way she did with her role (though glad to see I was right about the Lovers-as-antitown thing).
I have no idea why I secondguessed Jake as Town, or why he turned on me permanently for worrying about his alignment.
I have no idea why everyone thought this was a no-VT game.
I have no idea why I never got around to suggesting a D1 flavorclaim.

[Mr. Flay]

Or SK. I was beginning to think he was NK-immune scum after the lack of kill N2. Turns out scum was just derping as hard as town...

[Mr. Flay]

*shrug* Darox was so evasive about his role I wasn't even sure I believed him about being multishot. But yeah, D3 was weirdly apathetic. Also while I get the 'letting yourself get shot is optimal' argument, it only makes sense from YOUR perspective, not mine. I know I'm a miskill, and with <72 left I had no faith in town responding to my death appropriately or effectively. Would have rather waited for another Day to figure things out (5 left would have meant we could have Darox shoot during Twilight, for double the chances to hit scum).

Note: While this role was designed to limit the amount of shouting, Darox figured out how to play it to maximize shouting I did rule that the way Flay and Jake used caps most of the time was as emphasis of one word, rather than as shouting; where I would use italics for emphasis, others used ALL-CAPS for emphasis That use was not a reportable one, because the flavor is "no shouting in the library". This made Darox sad.

Heh. Phoneposting FTW! Tags were too hard...

[Mr. Flay]

Anyway, Jake totally gets MVP, but it is a little like winning the consolation bracket... this game was

saulres, you did a very good job on hindsight of putting in roles that would not confirm themselves 100%. That's a lot of what I fell prey to, trying to make the game make sense with partial information. However I'm a little concerned that massclaim+massshout probably would have broken the game for Town, given Darox's full power to kill...

[Mr. Flay]

Town self hammering in favor of no lynch is generally a good idea.

Not when you're at MyLo (and rarely any other time). You're mistaking EV and hindsight for what I was actually looking at - an apathetic playerbase, one more dead Town player, and a rogue Vig/SK/?. Yes, if we'd started talking about Darox shooting at the start of D3, that would be different (and I was even willing to talk about it 5 days from deadline, right after my VLA started). But less than 72 hours to deadline and everyone's favorite lynch candidate is all over the map? No thanks.

Somebody said it earlier - I come from a different meta. One that is unwilling to 'play the numbers' just for 4% better chance of not lynching wrong. You ALWAYS have a chance to talk it out the next Day.

[Mr. Flay]

Yeah, with daytalk I would have arranged that for some other time. I thought you were one-linering to find when NSin was going to be on...

[Mr. Flay]

Neither team did well as a whole, but I nominated Jake for Most Memorable Moment: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5270399

[Mr. Flay]

oh dear gods, I forgot about the OTHER hammer-related shenanigans in this game.

[Mr. Flay]

goes from being accused of ruining the game for town to basically winning the game for town. I'll take that

[Mr. Flay]

brb, loling forever

[Mr. Flay]

I've gotten that at least once a game the last couple of years.... many games before that, but definitely since the meta shifted. No worries.