Mini 1478 ~ Mafia Xenologue (Game Over!)

[Purpkin]

VOTE: Oil Tycoons
hey there big boy(s)

does anyone else have an ability with text that approximately says "you don't know what this ability does or how to activate it"?

Nope.

[Purpkin]

h

[Purpkin]

you made a donald fagan themed hydra and I'm not in it?

what is this shit

[Purpkin]

The latter

[Purpkin]

VOTE: tip

I don't feel victimized yet.

[Purpkin]

apparently not since you got the wrong head

[Purpkin]

[Purpkin]

Except it already makes me think he's town

So that's pretty cool

[Purpkin]

I don't see scum, having such an ability, look to seek out another that does. It's an attempt to gain a foothold into the mechanics, and scum, being scum, generally already have one.

[Purpkin]

I have no idea and I don't get your angle

[Purpkin]

...really? Especially since you've implied you don't even think it's a towntell by asking me why I thought it was?

I'll say my vote is serious.

[Purpkin]

I can't suspend my disbelief to the point where I believe you really think that.

[Purpkin]

And I'm scum because I'm trying to find scum?

Is their nagging a town tell too?

No, but even if I said yes, why would that matter?

[Purpkin]

Pretend I posted a smarmy gif or something. BRB metaing you for precedent for dumb.

[Purpkin]

LLD is rubbing me wrong so far; her questions are really banal.

[Purpkin]

You think my questions are trivial? Show me why. Quote my questions and tell me why they're banal. Now.

I am having trouble seeing how #64-#74 is anything but focusing on minutiae. I am obligated to suspend judgment on that since the exchange is in progress, but that's my gut about it.

[Purpkin]

@Purpkin, weren't you researching my meta? What stopped you from it?

I'm reading your shit, and I'm tired. Tomorrow.

[Purpkin]

Hi

Mara here

and I agree with TIP scum

[Purpkin]

Slow down C

TIP is scum, but that doesn't mean we can do stuff without half the player-base not here in thread yet

Lets find his partners and have everyone else view the thread first

[Purpkin]

@Purpkin, wow. This short post must be scum. Thanks for catching up and just letting everyone know you're scum. I'd expect more from you, Mara.

NP, now why don't you let us Bus you and make us look even more town?

[Purpkin]

Am I seriously wrong on a TIP read?

please tell me I am not wrong on a TIP Read

also, Andy I exist ._.

[Purpkin]

TIP

Reads

now

[Purpkin]

there is scum outside of us

who else is scum, who else is town

[Purpkin]

Is it just me, or does this look fake as fuck to anyone else? Could def see TIP scum doing this for the WIFOM'ses. Also #199 might be a scumslip with that "there is scum outside of us" comment.
TIP, Purpkin, Saki scumteam?

Syry

That was me

[Purpkin]

Talk to me about LLD real quick, why do you like her?

I think Borkie had a bad ping on her, and TBH I do too

[Purpkin]

and DTM

you have a read on her at all yet?

[Purpkin]

I think Nats is town



You're making me wish Nacho was here

[Purpkin]

Saki, at least give us something

[Purpkin]

Sakura didn't even fucking post, what makes you think she's scum?

[Purpkin]

what's with the numbers?

[Purpkin]

tl;dr on what they did last game please?

[Purpkin]

I am not sure what to do with that info.

I am starting here:
VOTE: Saki

[Purpkin]

Did you read?

[Purpkin]

We are Marth. Our first ability is "I say when it ends!" which means that if we would be nightkilled, we will instead die at the end of the next day. We got a message this morning saying we will die at the end of today. We were nightkilled during the night.

[Purpkin]

Nacho, please tell me you are trolling.

I'll be home in roughly two hours or so and I'll take a look at what has happened in the thread today

[Purpkin]

UNVOTE:

Saki's Pretty freaking town I think, I don't think I can see him attacking DTM the way he did if he was scum. It looked incredibly genuine from my POV, a kind of genuineness that's really, really hard to fake

also, Tierce/Emp I would appreciate it if you didn't use that "I was so Obv town D1 that I shouldn't even be looked at now" argument because I don't like it when people use it, and It's making me think that you guys could be scum this game.

If Nacho is telling the truth then, more than one person is likely to die by the end of the day and I want to be able to work with him before he dies. I can't do that if I'm overly paranoid.

Andy, you have anything worth adding to the game? I think you are likely town, care to elaborate a liiiiiittle bit more on your reads?

Sakura, do something so I can read you as town Please <3

[Purpkin]

So...

what do you think of the game so far Daemon?

and Tierce yes, I did play with Regfan in your game where I Pushed a regfan-scum read with that same reason. As for playing with you on skype, I think I had one or two games but that's about it. I'm not really seeing you guys screaming Obv town, though that could be because I'm not that well versed with your Meta's. I had some reservations from earlier post, but I think that there were a few that I had really good feelings on and I'm pretty sure our time here is tied to how long Oil lives and I really don't want to waste it arguing with you if you are town. I'm just asking for a little cooperation

[Purpkin]

GRANPA'S STILL ALIVE

Syry

please tell me Nacho was trolling when he stated that you guys are slated to die at the end of the day

[Purpkin]

Saki, instead of arguing with a scum-read, how about you try and convince others why you think Sakura is scum instead?

and Nacho, I guess not and, at some point I need to accept reality for what it is?

but, it's more along the lines that Bork and I both believe that we aren't going to be alive for to long after the two of you die.

how sure are you on Jabbers town? because I think I'm getting town-vibes from Empire posts (or what I think are empire posts) but not so much from Tierce. There are a few posts from her that I like, but I am, for the most part ambivalent and I don't think I like how she attacked TIP, by defending us while being fency on Cabd.

Sakura, I'm still waiting. Why don't you ask your own questions for a change? or maybe even comment on the game-state? I've yet to get that really, really nice warm feeling I usually get from you and I don't like it.

why are you asking for reads while not giving any of your own?

DDD, Welcome, and I would love to play with you again. I forgot to greet you because I was so busy scum-hunting?

yeah, lets go with that....

though, what's wrong with my 161?

I think I get a town-vibe from you so far

[Purpkin]

You forgot about us!

[Purpkin]

I think that post is pretty town though...

DDD, I why do you think the hammer is more likely to happen from Andrius-scum over Andrius town?

moreso, what do you think of rest of the wagon?

[Purpkin]

i feel like I'll get more clarity on Sakura as we go through the game.

Otherwise I've been pretty much not reading anything since D2 began and I'm gonna go rectify that.

-bork

[Purpkin]

It wasn't a joke?

not really, I was kinda being serious when I stated that we should slow down and let others comment on the game before we had the day end. There were several people who have yet to state anything, and in less than a real days time someone had been ran up to L-1 (though I wasn't aware at the time)

I was getting a scum-vibe from TIP though I kinda wanted a bit more time to interact with him and get a more solid read. I didn't really expect for the hammer to come down so soon.


also, Being aware of the game-state, and being aware of one-self are two different things. if andrius's title was gained from the fact that he is good at being subtle, it shows that he has high self-awareness, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he has high game-state awareness. Yes, it's obvious that he read the game, but while catching up I don't think one bothers to even check how many times one is voted. I sure as hell know I don't, and it looked completely accidental from my POV.

I also don't think that Scum-andy would have spent so much time trying to see how everyone viewed him based on his hammer, or if he did He wouldn't be so obvious about it.

also, you going to address that second sentence?

[Purpkin]

Convinced of..?

I'm leaning town in part based on Empire's meta report of LLD pending some meta review with Cabd.

I feel like, he left his heart out on his sleeve and is putting all his thoughts out as the come to him. The phrasing is kinda awkward I think, and he is majorly fence-sitting, but that heart-on-the-sleeve playstyle is not only hard to do as scum, but it is scary as fuck and, given that he has yet to play scum I don't think he would be able to do that kind of thing yet, least not comfortably.

[Purpkin]

wrong quote, it is about Daemon >.>

[Purpkin]

1) Isn't that what I said? that He isn't lying about being poisoned?
2) Saki's meta, he does zero scumhunting when town and lots when scum.
3) Everyone else is null atm, I feel like I replaced into a game for some reason... and yes that includes you as null.

About your hammer? Idk, mistakes like that happen, not often, but they do, so that's why it's a nulltell for me.

This was however before you made that large post analysing everything so you're leaning more town for me now, specially since this has been done twice by you already.

Well I do hate meta as well, but I don't wanna end up lynching town just because I decided to ignore Saki's meta.... there's still a slight chance he's scum tho.

I still would think Saki's town, but the thing is, he could be changing his scum meta to fit with his town meta. But that wouldn't make any sense because then he would start getting lynched all the time since his town meta appears more scummy than his scum meta. This is why I think Saki's town this game.

Jabberwock's town, you're town, Lady's town, Sak's null leaning scum, DTM's null leaning scum, everyone else's null.

I'm not lazy
I just don't feel like doing anything other than trolling until day 3

VOTE: Saki

Look at the seam between #523 and #531 in Sakura's ISO. Nothing should really have changed there but the read totally did.

Also look at the vote in #540 and compare it to what Sakura claimed about Saki earlier about Saki not doing shit when town but tryharding when scum, and see how it utterly contradicts with this.

VOTE: sakura

I'm pretty sure Mara endorses this last time I talked to her.

[Purpkin]

2) Wait, scum wouldn't care about the perception it gave?

Yeah, forget I even talked about that line of logic. Don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that, though I'm still not particularly moved by the WIFOM'ic argument of "he's read the game, as apparent by his catch-up post and thus should be able to know where a person stands" Especially when the hammer looks completely accidental.

any other reasons for Andy-scum that don't have to do with the hammer vote?

What are your thoughts on Sakura and Saki?

Hawk, yes I think Cabd and Ffery are both town. For starters, I don't think C would have had such a hard-on for a TIP lynch as scum, not when I'm around when he knows that I could possibly rag on him for reading TIP wrongly this game (granted he could do the same thing to me so the feelings probably neutral there). The fact that he was confident enough to sound of partners for TIP-scum is really telling.

Ffery's frustration when she saw that TIP got lynched was genuine, and I have a good feeling of their conversations with me.

What I register as Ffery post have a somewhat good feel to them I think.

I'm curious though, why do you ask for my read on them? do you trust me to accurately read them that much or is there something else...?

[Purpkin]

Purpkin, I agree that Sakura's read on Saki is pretty bogus, but I am concerned about The Cat Hydra.

Do you read them as town? If you do could you help me understand why?

Can we table that slot for now and focus on the two S wagons?

[Purpkin]

Why should we table discussion? I find Sakura the scummier of the two, but not necessarily the one I would like to lynch today.

I've been trying to get ahold of Mara for the better part of a day now, but everyone else in the QT is ok with it, and we're kinda stalled, so:

We are neighbors with MTC.

Have been since about the beginning of the game when they initiated it. Our interaction in the QT is making me think they are town.

You seem really determined to read them as scum though, no matter what they do (like your 664 -- what is scummy about their saying "I will meta this dude when I have time?"

Furthermore, your initial hop on them in #342 is contingent on "using another player to strengthen a lynching position and posture". That actually seems like something town would do to me -- use someone that has prior experience with a slot as an authoritative source for a better read -- especially when they have a town read on the slot doing that. Why is that scummy to you in the first place?

You just seem really locked into this tunnel and I can't figure out why that is.

"Potential Tip Partners" = 'in the event of a TIP scumflip, here is where you should look.' I don't get the problem.

---

I like daemon for town.

[Purpkin]

Can you help us to understand WHY?

They are collaborating with Mara and me to figure people out in a way that does not seem fake to me. They are giving as much as taking with regard to opinions.

Why [is daemon town]?

It is a gut feeling of honesty and candidness that is coming from every post he makes.

[Purpkin]

We now have role related reasons to vote andy too

VOTE: andrius

[Purpkin]

ok

um

hmm.

that might change shit.

UNVOTE:

[Purpkin]

I don't think this is anti-town to say at this point:

we have a neighborize too

...that we haven't used yet

[Purpkin]

Okay seriously Sakura is like Townier than Nachyana, that post was ridiculously Town. Never ever ever lynch that slot. But--my brain.

agree

[Purpkin]

I already targeted Lady with it because i thought she'd have a female character, lol

we're female

[Purpkin]

on the contrary, it gave me a sense of perspective and I no longer want to push Andy because of it.

[Purpkin]

or more accurately, what I said in 756 is out the window at least.

[Purpkin]

I think we can get a quorum for Prohawk.
VOTE: prohawk

this is partially summarized in #703 but I am also trusting our neighbors here, who I steadfastly think are town.

Tiempire, let's compromise here?

[Purpkin]

saki is being unhelpful, might well be scum, and i have no clue if they actually are or not.

This is one of those times I feel meta might be my only weapon and I've not bothered to look yet. The aggression is a teeny tiny towntell I guess?

Mara very much thinks this slot is town and she should be back soon.

wouldn't have even noticed i did it if you hadn't pointed it out. sorry.

[Purpkin]

Reading now.

[Purpkin]

Reading now.

[Purpkin]

Ok yeah that is like night and day.

[Purpkin]

I would like a larger sample size since that is astronomically different.

[Purpkin]

sakiscum

it reads more like this one. a lot of oneliners and fluff.

[Purpkin]

Sakura posted THIS:

In post 760, Sakura Hana wrote:
and we got a town neighborizer?.... what in the fricken hell?!


This is not how town reacts. This is how scum reacts if they see a role that counterclaims their confirmable one.

I missed this dissonance with her later claim "oh ya i am a neighborizer too" and you are spot on.
VOTE: Sakura

[Purpkin]

I'd call sakura!scum flip === morph!town due to the unsolicited use of "

town

neighborizer" in 760, too.

[Purpkin]

664 isn't scummy. Its when I directly ask them a question, and its gets "skipped" that is scummy. Like trying to scramble for answers scummy.

Speaking of this, I asked you a question earlier and you never answered it

RE: Saki, Without giving me Meta, can someone tell me why he's scum?

I don't feel like reading anything atm

as for my town-read on him, it's mostly due to his interaction with Nacho, and why he was scum reading DTM. I can't really see scum OMGUS'ing on a "fake guilty" the way he did. He has really strong convictions when it comes to his reads no matter how irrational it may be.

that, to me is a townish trait

[Purpkin]

VOTE: prohawk

[Purpkin]

I'll join Prohawk in a sec

though, Did Tiempire get a chance to talk to DDD before he died?

that is something I need to know

Pedit: or... we can join in on Prohawk now

[Purpkin]

ask Nacho/Syry for their reasons on Daemon. I still think that dude is town

[Purpkin]

though, Did Tiempire get a chance to talk to DDD before he died?

that is something I need to know

Begging your pardon?

UNVOTE: Saki (He's still scum, no one "forgets" a uPick exists.)

Need to talk with Empire and need to see if morph the cat actually control two votes. ProHawk lynch is beautiful and glorious but can wait for a little bit.

I'm taking this as a no?

I honestly don't know what to think of Saki. I told Bork Earlier that I thought LLD was town when he told me he was scum-reading her though, I don't remember why I was town-reading her to begin with.

I'll be around more tomorrow, and I'd like a little bit more time to do stuff

Pedit: Saki, as much paranoia I had on both of them earlier, they really are town. I don't think you're vote on them is very productive.

[Purpkin]

I asked something similar to "did you kill off the two people I knew"
No answer, just "LOOK AT SAKI" AtE

This wasn't even phrased as a question...what were you expecting them to say?

Because on closer inspection you would notice that I pretty much pushed both wagons.
I contradicted myself.
Why would Jabberwock fail to see this?

Again, what were you expecting them to say? You didn't indicate you were expecting a response at all. This is why most reaction tests are dumb - you don't have the pass/fail conditions set realistically.

I wanted to call you scum for this when I first read your explanation of critter scum but now I think you really just didn't think this through well.

----

otherwise I'm nowheresville with reads and I'm forced to reread at this point because I'm second guessing everything and can't responsibly do anything except sheep OT right now.

[Purpkin]

congratulations i hate meta now

[Purpkin]

I get a town vibe from Purpkin, which disappoints me from their lack of interest/investment into this game. I feel like scumPurpkin would put more effort into their reasons for calling me scum (something I have experienced with Bork). Please work on some solid reads with solid reasoning.

You're going to have to AtE me a whole lot harder if you want to get me disarmed to the point where, I become unsure of my read on you

also, don't forget that alot of our scum-read on you is now PoE~~

I apologize for not really being here, and having bork do most of the posting. a little bit of late day apathy is making an early presence

[Purpkin]

also, this is a little late, but I'm totally jealous of you Ffery. all the dead dudes love talking to you for some reason

[Purpkin]

also, don't forget that alot of our scum-read on you is now PoE~~

If this isn't clear enough for you...

Jabberwock is clearly, clearly town. all their posts today, and yesterday, and even D1 have alot of pro-town attitude in them. I was unsure earlier, but today has been their best day I think and the fact that they are keeping the day open as long as possible so that we can speak to OT as much as possible reminds me of Tierce's and Vi's attitude in Paradox, specifically the part where we all got thrown back to D1.

Morph The Cat is town. Prior to today, it's kinda hard to explain other than the fact that both clearly are coming from a pro-town mindset via, our neighborhood. Though, if they were scum, they would just keep Oil talking to them on the down-low I would think. The fact that you have us as town, yet won't trust our read on him when WE HAVE A QT WITH THEM, THUS HAVE A CLOSER LOOK INTO THEIR MINDS THAN MOST OF YOU is strange

and then, it goes down to

LLD, Andrius, Daemon, Saki, DTM and you.

three scum are found in that group

I have serious, serious doubt that Daemon and Saki are on a team together because of their play D2 and I have Doubts that Daemon is scum, though I also have doubts that LLD is scum so the team would be

Andrius, You, DTM/Saki

[Purpkin]

I have serious, serious doubt that Daemon and Saki are on a team together because of their play D2

?

I meant to say DTM and Saki

[Purpkin]

Jabberwock is clearly, clearly town. all their posts today, and yesterday, and even D1 have alot of pro-town attitude in them. I was unsure earlier, but today has been their best day I think and the fact that they are keeping the day open as long as possible so that we can speak to OT as much as possible reminds me of Tierce's and Vi's attitude in Paradox, specifically the part where we all got thrown back to D1.

to elaborate on the "unsure" side of what mara just posted since I think it mostly comes from me, I was pretty wary of the fact that Jabberwock was continuously all "yeah prohawk makes great scum sure A++ vote would backseat drive again" but clearly has no intention of hopping on that wagon like ever.

I guess I'm disappointed in the lack of any intention of compromise especially as the day goes on and 3 slots have been pretty locked into that vote. I don't have the Tierce meta that mara does, however, so I am willing to defer on that front especially since I can't point to any one slot and be like "yep that's 90% town right there" which I usually have at least 1 or 2 of.

Still, I have no idea what LLD is doing with the "hey maybe jabberwock guys ?" nudge and I see no real viable trajectory with it - you're not gonna get sheep on it today and I think you're gonna get either "nope town" or "maybe but tomorrow" from both alignments which just makes me wonder why you didn't just ask for reads on jabberwock instead of suggesting maybe they ought to be the lynch right now when it clearly lacks momentum and you don't seem to want to create any. It's confusing more than anything.

p-edit: jabberwock pretty much exactly made this exact last point i see

[Purpkin]

That sentiment was more oriented at day 2

[Purpkin]

Morph and Jabberwocky are both town

I've been thinking about this alot lately

Tierce: what are the odds of there being two Role-blockers in a Vi game?

[Purpkin]

~He notes that the tip mislynch was super great because it gave us so many great town reads. He mentions to never lynch Purpkin, Morph, Jabbers, Andy and we win the game.

This game would have been better off if you would have just stayed dead.

why?

[Purpkin]

Quit the fighting and just freaking hammer already, jesus

[Purpkin]

Further than that, I can't win this game in a world where Morph is scum. I have to assume he's town and roll with it. If I'm wrong, this is the call that lost the game for us. If Morph is scum, you can blame it all on me.

You can't win this game period with your current reads either since we're regrettably on your scum list, unless you're scum. I don't think you are so if you want to talk this out that would be rad.

We'll claim now cause fuck it:

We're Tharja, a JOATish role. We like Oil Tycoons a looooooooooot:

All of these are one-shot:

1) Roleblock (we also hit saki N1 just as DTM claimed he did)
2) Neighborize two players who are not us (we attempted to neighborize Jabberwock and DDD the night DDD died, hence mara's question)
3) Machoize [seriously, we can make someone immune to protection]. We did not use this - I don't see an obvious pro-town application of this
4) Vig, but only if that player were to target Oil Tycoons, and the ship sailed on that pretty early. We didn't use this either.

We're neighbors with MTC and we have been all game, but that was driven by their role, not ours.

[Purpkin]

I don't trust the claim, but let's see what everyone else claims. Jabberwock next.

then you are a silly confirmation biasing sillyhead

[Purpkin]

we're pretty fucking town

[Purpkin]

I'm sorry I'll tell Vi to reissue me a character that you find more appealing

p-edit: jabberwock, daemon, andy

[Purpkin]

I mean, I'd treat it like a vig shot- not in the sense that you expect them to die BUT if they were to get shot there would be no way they WOULDN'T DIE.

I'm sure there is exactly one niche situation in this setup where it had a marginal pro-town value if the stars aligned, yes

[Purpkin]

Uh..... You told us in the neighborhood you had multiple RB shots? You even told us you were debating on who to role block last night.

Thanks for spilling the beans on that. Not necessary to prove what we can do, and yes, Nacho's death gave us one more use for everything we have.

[Purpkin]

Are you talking to me?

[Purpkin]

Our vig shot goes through if our target has targeted oil tycoons on that same night. It has nothing to do with who oil tycoons targets.

[Purpkin]

I also have very much reason to believe MTC is still town.

[Purpkin]

I don't think LLD or MTC is scum, which means scum is in (Jab, Dae, And, Saki), I'm reevaluating where Jab vs Saki ends up, and I'm questioning why DDD and CES are dead - these are people I know Tierce has played with (mainly because I used to newbie game stalk Tierce and Thor).

[Purpkin]

We wanted to get two competent players talking.

And if you're town then you know there is no scum motivation for us to have done that.

[Purpkin]

My point with the DDDP kill is that, if you are going down that road with NK analysis, you have to realize that we would be leaving people alive who have played with me a lot more recently. Cabd has seen me as Town and as scum very very recently, as has Ms Marangal (who, admittedly, doesn't worry me overmuch), and I'm sure ffery could metadive me into a lynch if I were scum. Instead you're presuming I chose to leave them alive and hope the Townread would stick and went for Triple D, who last played with me in Maf.Maiden (both Town), saw me as Town as he modded Sherlock Mafia, and didn't manage to get me lynched in a Newbie game that was over a year ago. It doesn't fit. If you think I'm taking out threats, your perception of who I see as threats is wrong, because you are missing the people who are still alive. That list, though? It fits as Andrius-threats.

I will admit I am not aware of recent Cabd experience.

I am probably ok with lynching Andy but I (and cabd too) am also having a huge problem seeing Saki vs Jabberwock as TvT.

ergerjkghke

[Purpkin]

lots of times, yeah. problem?

[Purpkin]

Andy just seems, I dunno, terribly unconcerned with the gamestate with the one thing he decided to post about today.

[Purpkin]

And if Mara is paying attention, she can tell this is nothing like Open 501.

yeah, though TBF that was me reading less, and more me being super-duper sure you were scum because everyone else was so town when I had replaced in so...

[Purpkin]

Bork forgot to mention that I thought our connection with Nacho/Syry was a one-way lover kinda thing, and if you look through our Iso, you will see me saying stuff that support that mindset!

that theory was obviously a wash though

[Purpkin]

We wanted to get two competent players talking.

And if you're town then you know there is no scum motivation for us to have done that.

This

and we were under the assumption that they would be neighborized with us. At that point, I was pretty sure that the both of you were town, and it would have been pretty awesome to get to talk with you both. I was also under the thought that, if I was wrong about a town-read on either of you, it would have been caught in whatever we decided to converse about