Mini 1489 - VisCon: Murder at Wingate Mansion [Game Over]

[TheGarantula]

VOTE: SXTLHGaiden
How the hell did you come up with that name?

[TheGarantula]

@SXTLHGaiden: Can I shorten your name to Gaiden in the future?

@Nachomamma8: Why are you in so many of my games?
VOTE: Nacho

[TheGarantula]

Nacho, you seem to be acting differently than in the newbie game. Why?

[TheGarantula]

I don't think I'm supposed to link to it; it's ongoing. It's still okay for me to reference it like that though, right?

[TheGarantula]

Well shit then. Still, I can make the comparison with the other game of mine he was in. Pretend I did that.

[TheGarantula]

Chainsawing is when you passively defend someone by attacking their attacker, instead of directly defending them. It's slippery and is usually seen as scummy.

[TheGarantula]

UNVOTE: Nachomamma

In all seriousness, TheGarantula is prob-town for thinking it's cool to talk about ongoing games, def not something a scum would say by himself I think.

Why wouldn't they?

Early opinion is I laughably nailed down the first scum by accident in RVS, and since then one over reacted to nacho and the other overreacted to me and nacho.

How do you know how many scum there are?

VOTE: Ms Marangal
The whole self-meta defense/attack is odd, and there's also this:

I never claimed reaction test. not really. I said I may have had a reason, but the reaction you had to the single vote was what struck me as odd. I threw a little bit of bait out, but it doesn't automatically mean it's a test.

I could have given a reason then, but Baiting you on giving your own reasons for why your actions are scummy, and why you think I do certain things would give me way more information from you

You said that leaving your vote naked was to get a reaction. How is that not a reaction test?

[TheGarantula]

Okie Dokie.

[TheGarantula]

Assumption. I've played over 60 games across three different sites.

13 man game, 2 would mean scum need a minimum of 5 mislynches to win, if it was 4 mafia then they only need 3.

And I've been mafia in 3 out of the 4 completed games on MS, I think I got a grasp on how you guys split these things.

also a bit scummy. # of games played is irrevlevant. FYI I have been playing this game in one for or another far longer and far more games. Whoopie do dah day. Start trumping your history over nothing to try and give self cred...

This is silly. He was answering why he thought there were 3 scum.

Shadow, you think Garan is scum? why?

He does? And what do you think of the last two votes on you?

[TheGarantula]

Chainsawing is when you attack someone's attacker in order to defend them indirectly.

[TheGarantula]

Also I'm going to reread the generic vs. Marangal posts. I don't see what you guys see.

[TheGarantula]

Long day today, will catch up and post something of substance in the morning before I have to go troll Mina IRL.

ugg, I hate these type of posts...

I hate this type of post. :p

[TheGarantula]

Well, I first heard of the game in the games section of an unrelated forum (The games weren't serious. One guy got lynched because he thought it was a roleplay and said he had a gun in his waistband). Then I came here and have since played 2 newbie games and 1 micro game.

As far as Generic's game count reference goes, what you said pretty much sums up my thoughts. I also reread the argument between him and Ms Marangal again and I still don't read scummy Generic.

He starts off random voting ms. Mang. Then starts generating reasons

This seems like a misrep to me, seeing as Generic's read was in reaction to what he saw as a scummy attack from Ms Marangal.

FOS: PeaceBringer

PS: Inb4

[TheGarantula]

No it wasn't amazing; he just kept taking about his characters emotional turmoil, forgetting to mention that he had the gun because he was the cop.

P-edit: Yes, it was RVS. I don't think he planned to leave it on Ms Marangal, that's just how things worked out. There's a 1/13 chance that a given person's random vote will end up being their first solid lead.

[TheGarantula]

RVS = Random Vote Stage.

Two pages in one night, holy fuck.

[TheGarantula]

Can someone link me to the red wedding game?

[TheGarantula]

UNVOTE: Ms Marangal

[TheGarantula]

If you look at the top of a post there's a link that says "ISO". Clicking that let's you look at all of a single user's posts for the game.

[TheGarantula]

Are you being sarcastic? That's what it means.

[TheGarantula]

I think Generic needs to claim. I believe he is being overly defensive and reactive for the circumstances.

Why does being reactive and defensive make him scum? Town gets flustered too.

[TheGarantula]

Vote for me bert. Then you are rid of me from the game. I asked for that and got told I shouldn't be doing that.

I get asked for a claim, so I gsve it and that's now scummy to.

Confbias, just finish the wagon, see my flip, and get on with everyone else a town member down.

After mara wants to fucking accuse me of using the suit I'm going through as AtE.

vote generic

That's how ticking angry I am right now, I hate self voting but I refuse to let someone else have to inherit the shitstorm. Fuck it.

This post gave me cancer.
You are using AtE all over the place; don't deny it. I don't think it's necessarily scummy, but it is distracting and annoying. Please stop.

EBWOP: I'm not a fan of how Generic claimed - timing, etc., screamed scum scum scum - but that last post #282...meh the "discussing my personal life, lost all enjoyment part" is...meh. Not sure.

Could you elaborate on why the claim was scummy?

I don't like Shadoweh so far

Why not?

On point 1, I suspected mara FIRST, so her OMGUS wouldn't correlate fairly in that comment

No you didn't. All you had on her was a random vote. Why are you lying?

[TheGarantula]

When you spend a lot of time trying to discredit someone's viewpoint as he did with a fullblown OMGUS and references to past meta regarding relationships and other things it is suspect.

Isn't this also what Ms Marangal was doing? Do you suspect her was well?

[TheGarantula]

Tammy, whenever you get a chance, would like to hear your thoughts on Bert specifically.

Woah, woah. Why are you asking Tammy about me? Why don't you make some of your own comments first.

Could you elaborate on why the claim was scummy?

He was at lynch -3. Not lynch -2. Not lynch -1. Lynch -3. And he was not obligated to claim under the circumstances.

I get that it's unorthodox, but why is it scummy? What is the scum motivation behind it?

[TheGarantula]

Yeah, I've been having a very hard time reading people this game. Thor's debates in my last newbie game were better than this.

And your flippant remark about cancer was a out as no Iso as eating vomit.
I would have forced a mod kill if it wasnt for bad sportsmanship and the last lingering shred of pride I want to hold onto (and its bad enough I'm ruining fakegods game as I am without making it worse for him)...

I don't really know what you said in the first sentence, but it still makes me sad

@Bert: Why did you vote Nacho and unvote Nacho without him having posted?

[TheGarantula]

While you're at it, there's this.

[TheGarantula]

Let's all agree not to reference Generic's home life from now on!

[TheGarantula]

I believe a large part of Marangal's case was literally OMGUS:

My argument is, the things you Should expect me to do based on what you know and things that you are calling me out on don't Mesh. That's what I found suspicious.

She's saying that the fact that he isn't reading her correctly, given his experience, implicates him as scum. How is that not OMGUS?
Also, they both referenced their past experience, and they both tried to build ethos with it. Why does that make Generic scum but not Ms Marangal? This discrepancy seems very odd.

Finally, the fact that Generic is experienced would lead me to believe that he

wouldn't

try something so lame as hara-kiri-ing as scum. I think it's a null tell.

[TheGarantula]

2) Wow, Garantula, Nacho just gave some great advice with regard to sheeping.

How do you figure?

[TheGarantula]

I'll only be able to access from my phone until tomorrow night, but I'll try to keep up to date

[TheGarantula]

Is basic noob an alignment?

[TheGarantula]

I'm sad that Generic broke his promise to not mention his baggage again.

Also, Bert is looking pretty good.
Purple Shoe is annoying. I wish that was an alignment tell.
Peacebringer is seeming scummy to me.
Ms Marangal seems town. I get the feeling that the argument earlier was town vs town, but we might find out for sure if this mod kill actually happens.
Nacho is still town.
Shadoweh is null.

I'm going to ISO llamarble, Desperado and Tammy.

Until then: VOTE: PeaceBringer

[TheGarantula]

@Bert:

1. Null is the default and I haven't looked closely enough at her posts. I'll probably ISO her as well, but it's lower priority than the ones I mentioned already.
2. If purpleshoe is an alt of a prominent player then it's likely that he knows how uncooperative play looks. I can't form any read yet that doesn't fall to WIFOM logic.
3. No it isn't. The condition is met if they are both town, but the mod kill will only confirm Generic's alignment.
4. He seems to be genuinely trying to figure out where people are coming from with his comments, not just trying to figure out how to spin then as scum.
5. No, I'm a newb but not a noob.
6. I'm finding it a bit easier now that the epic Generic vs Ms Marangal meta fight is over. However, Empire and Tammy have been doing it as well and it's making me cry. It's hard to read through all these tears.

Why do you beg to differ? Are you saying you think that I'm scummy or just hard to read?

[TheGarantula]

Welcome Kuribo, but I think you are 3edgy5me. Also, why did you call me out for bitching about content after doing it yourself?

[TheGarantula]

And I thought we could be buddies.

[TheGarantula]

What are you trying to say about May Wingate? Empire, is that your role flavor? Why are you trying to be so secretive about the message here?

[TheGarantula]

Obviously. It isn't like I didn't know I was airing it out.

[TheGarantula]

Because the message was intended for kuribo only. I figured he would get the hint and we would both talk about it in our Neighborhoods. Some things really do NOT need to be talked about openly.

How did you not expect other people to figure it out? Why would it be better to discuss in the quick topics than in the main thread? If there's scum in the QTs they can coordinate what they say about the information. They can't do that during the day. (I assume they don't have day talk)

[TheGarantula]

Also, why are you so trusting of kuriboh already?

[TheGarantula]

People tend to not really pick up crumbs like that unless it directly pertains with them (see: Johhog softclaiming his PR hard in Yoloville and something like half the town not picking it up).

I don't completely believe this. Your first post about it was a good crumb and was not at all obvious. Then you made it clear you were crumbing in 697, which was still okay, seeing as no one else would know what you were trying to say.

However, you then had kuribo state his flavor in the thread, and made it obvious to everyone in 703 that your crumb pertained to it. It's like you wanted to make sure town picked up on the crumb. I'm not sure why yet, but the whole thing is very weird.

And I wanted to see if kuribo would bring it up in the QT with Tammy and Llamarble and how.

What would it have told you if he did/didn't?

[TheGarantula]

On second thought, 704 makes it very likely that if you were trying to be obvious, kuribo knew it and went along with it.

Also, if I'm wrong about this, you guys shouldn't ever attempt to secretly crumb again; that was just awful.

[TheGarantula]

vote purple shoe

Why did you do this?

[TheGarantula]

Also, that's L-1. Did you know that?

[TheGarantula]

vote purple shoe

Why did you do this?

[TheGarantula]

Don't be coy, it's unbecoming of you.

[TheGarantula]

Very witty, please answer my question.

[TheGarantula]

You totally are though

[TheGarantula]

Did you just claim scum, Generic?

PeaceBringer, you haven't explained why you think PurpleShoe is scum. Stop being such a little cunt.

[TheGarantula]

Does no one have anything to say about the very obvious breadcrumb? I can't be the only one who found it weird.

[TheGarantula]

I'm still trying to understand what the supposed harm in my outing of Empire's role flavor was. Not only was it obvious, but it would be inconsequential unless you were purposefully trying to insinuate that it is related to his abilities or alignment. If that's the case, why would you making a big deal out of it be any better?

If we entertain the idea that you are both scum, then perhaps the exchange could have been to allow Empire to claim a role indirectly, so as not to raise suspicions. Then, he could reference it later as evidence (a la the usual breadcrumb).

If only one of you is scum, then the exchange would have served as public buddying. In the case that either of you flipped, it might have implied the same alignment of the other, especially if this sort of behavior continued.

I guess I just can't get over the idea that the breadcrumb was meant to be picked up by someone other than kuribo. Perhaps it wasn't meant for town to notice, but was instead an attempt by Empire to communicate with his partners indirectly? This doesn't seem as likely, but I guess it's still possible.

In essence,

FOS: Both of you

. I see more scum motivation behind it than town motivation (which I see little of).

[TheGarantula]

I raise multiple ideas, please quote the one you are responding to. Your reply doesn't make a lot of sense no matter which part of my post I look at. The idea about Empire communicating with buddies implies you are town.

Are you insinuating that Empire's crumb was a PR crumb? As flavor alone it wouldn't have been a big deal to reveal it.

[TheGarantula]

Post 808 is a lot of angry and not a lot of anything else. Put on your big boy pants and calm down please.

Anyway, you only seem concerned with the idea of Empire being scum alone (which I said was least likely). What about the other two scummy possibilities?

If the crumb was just about flavor, what's the harm in me talking about it? How was it going to help town?

[TheGarantula]

The only idea you attempted to rebut was the one that didn't have you as scum. Why?

A lyncher looking for May Wingate? That's awfully specific.

[TheGarantula]

The only idea you attempted to rebut was the one that didn't have you as scum. Why?

A lyncher looking for May Wingate? That's awfully specific.

What the hell are you on about? Yes I fucking did rebut it:

Keep that finger to yourself unless you want it bitten off

and when you play enough theme games, you're ready for anything. hell, Empire and Tammy were BOTH in a game with me where the lyncher was supposed to lynch a certain role

So do you have any serious responses to my accusations? Given Empire's last post, the 'obvious flavor claim in order to push the two of you as town buddies' scenario is looking more likely.

[TheGarantula]

Would you like to link to your response to my accusations? Your only real response ever was, "I don't buddy my partners." Pretending that's a solid argument (it isn't, since the buddying scenario assumes one of you is town; derp), there's still the unanswered accusation that the whole thing was a ruse to make you both look town (e.g. Empire's discussion of his own flavor). It's the second paragraph of 864.

[TheGarantula]

Are you like this in real life?

[TheGarantula]

Well if Empire is scum, then the whole, "I think my flavor might mean kuribo is town," thing would clearly be an attempt to make you look town. Do you even read?

Also, I'm not asking you to accept anything. I'm asking you to rebut it. Saying, "I already know I'm not scum," isn't a rebuttal.

I don't understand your question regarding the how. Like you've been doing, obviously.

[TheGarantula]

The reason I had asked was just that I had been thinking perhaps your exasperating nature was why your wife cheated on you. Maybe not.

[TheGarantula]

Well if Empire is scum, then the whole, "I think my flavor might mean kuribo is town," thing would clearly be an attempt to make you look town. Do you even read?

Also, I'm not asking you to accept anything. I'm asking you to rebut it. Saying, "I already know I'm not scum," isn't a rebuttal.

I don't understand your question regarding the how. Like you've been doing, obviously.

I don't suppose that vote had anything to do with the points elaborated upon in this post; did it? Otherwise I think these are still open threads of discussion.

[TheGarantula]

Nah

[TheGarantula]

Nah

[TheGarantula]

Do you usually 1v1 people you hadn't otherwise read as scum? You can't really think it's going to preserve that record of yours.

[TheGarantula]

Does no one have anything to say about the very obvious breadcrumb? I can't be the only one who found it weird.

Just shut up about this already, please

I have an idea about what Empire wants to talk to us about tonight but I don't think letting the whole fucking world know about it is pro-town

You didn't find it strange?

@PeaceBringer: I'm not really sure what you are voting me for.

[TheGarantula]

ISO me, I said it already a few times to kuriboh

@PeaceBringer: Eh, he's been a dick all game. Policy lynch for it I'd dumb though. If you'd prefer I can replace out; I'll be pretty busy this week anyway.

P-edit: I don't think it would have done much good in private, and I'm not at all convinced that it wasn't fake.

[TheGarantula]

Whoops, "...is dumb though..." is what I meant.

[TheGarantula]

Mmk. I'll definitely give it my consideration.

[TheGarantula]

V/LA for a day or two

. I'll still have access but I might not be able to post every day.

[TheGarantula]

I'm on very limited access right now, so can someone please explain the Desperado case to me?

[TheGarantula]

@Tammy: What about Generic and I? You aren't even voting for it

[TheGarantula]

If Desp was an SK, would that mean that it's likely a 2 man scum team remaining?

VOTE: Qwints

[TheGarantula]

Also, I think the fakeclaim thing you mentioned makes him being an SK very likely. I think most people would have told him not to claim that.

[TheGarantula]

You're right, I mixed up two of my games and thought the different groups (scum and neighborhoods) had day talk for a second.