Mini 1520: Neighborhood Mafia - Game over!

[Alduskkel]

Confirm.

[Alduskkel]

What's with the (A)?

[Alduskkel]

Landmind's a hydra, right?

[Alduskkel]

I am a vacant body subject to the whispered dictates of two endlessly-circling ravens which shall remain nameless. They don't sign their posts and write everything collectively. Woo-oo-oo………

And I'm a large celestial body generating energy through nuclear fusion. Wearing shades. What's your point?

[Alduskkel]

sunman is badman

Well if you keep saying stuff like that then I think I can figure out who's in this hydra...

[Alduskkel]

This is the greatest role of all time, I can't be killed and I also can control people to do my dirty work.

At the same time we're also all kind of counting on you to not fuck things up.

Vote: Landmind

[Alduskkel]

If I get a vig shot I'm shooting Landmind.

[Alduskkel]

Vote Landmind for great justice. And also because their posts are super annoying to read and are excessively wordy in a way that's worse than an unedited Mastin post.

[Alduskkel]

Why?

[Alduskkel]

So I'm focusing on Landmind -- what makes that different from anyone else focusing on one person? In other words, what makes what I'm doing tunneling?

Is tunneling scummy or just anti-town? Because townies are known to tunnel.

[Alduskkel]

So I have to play like my 2012 self, AND you get to judge that I'm scum because in 3 pages I haven't played as such? What evidence do you even have that I tunnel more as scum, as opposed to me just changing my playstyle since then -- alternatively, I could just be acting differently because it's RVS. Or because you are/were more annoying than torgonitoh.

That said, I appreciate you changing your posting style.

Unvote

.

Vote: MafiaSSK

.
Claims he can tell I'm tunneling by page 3, then admits tunneling isn't actually scummy, just anti-town. Keeps his vote anyway.

[Alduskkel]

Because you're not scumhunting.

[Alduskkel]

I'm not continuing to go after Landmind. Does that change your opinion at all?

[Alduskkel]

Keeping my vote on MafiaSSK. While he was right to unvote (i.e. it is wrong to keep his vote on me), he didn't follow up with anything, so it just looks to me like he was trying to back off to avoid looking bad, rather than because he was wrong. Also he did it right after baldeagle said he looked like scum in a 1v1 between (I assume) him and me.

[Alduskkel]

It's page 4. It was a pressure vote to get Ald to stop being anti-town. It worked. Whee!

I didn't "stop being anti-town" because of anything you did.

Because I'm so worried about looking bad on page 4. Yup. That's me.

Hiding behind sarcasm, are we?

I still see zero scumhunting from you. You vaguely imply suspicion of baldeagle but fail to act on it, despite the fact that your vote is doing jack shit right now.

[Alduskkel]

Yeah, for the most part I like to not go on both the offensive and the defensive at the same time. It just doesn't really work for me.

That seems terribly limiting. Why doesn't it work for you?

@goodnight: What's not genuine about either of us?

[Alduskkel]

But I'm still voting MafiaSSK...

[Alduskkel]

I voted Landmind because Landmind changed his posting style, not to appease MafiaSSK.

The rest of that you can take up with MafiaSSK, but I agree with you that he doesn't seem genuine.

[Alduskkel]

He could be, but if I chose to interpret it that way for no reason then that

would

be tunneling.

[Alduskkel]

No, the point is that I don't think Landmind was scummy for changing how they posted. So I didn't keep my vote on.

What's your read on Landmind?

[Alduskkel]

@Landmind: I'm not saying you can't call me scummy for stuff I do in the RVS, what I am saying is that trying to compare my meta here and my play in Mafiastuck is not going to work because it's too early in this game and Mafiastuck was too long ago.

Also you were more annoying than torgonitoh, so I guess I'll explicitly state that, too.

As for your second point (and this is @PrivateI, too) I first prompted MafiaSSK to show how I was tunneling, given that I don't think I was tunneling.

The second question I asked (is tunneling scummy or just anti-town) was designed to get MafiaSSK to explain his scumhunting process more, and what do you know, it turned out that his scumhunting process sucked. That's more or less why I voted him directly after he responded.

So no, I'm not trying to excuse future anti-town behavior on my part (what anti-town behavior am I even planning on?), I was actually trying to get a read on MafiaSSK.

Speaking of which, more votes on MafiaSSK please.

[Alduskkel]

Jake, what is your read on Landmind, MafiaSSK, and myself?

[Alduskkel]

Seems kinda scummy. Wish he'd post some scumreads.

[Alduskkel]

Not right now. I have a bigger fish to fry.

[Alduskkel]

Mac, your defense of NS is noted. By which I mean if NS flips scum then you're going to look way scummier.

NS, how the hell do you expect to get enough townreads to use PoE on Day 1? You need at least 5 townreads before your pool even gets down to 50% scum. Wouldn't it be easier to just get one scumread? Why is hunting via townreads better, anyway?

[Alduskkel]

As far as I can tell, if we publicize the treestump's actions, scum will be able to counter it too easily with their own role-giver. For example, if we voted to pass out watcher, scum will know to pass out ninja. If we voted to give a role to a particular player, then scum could pass out roleblocker and block that player.

@Fuduzn: Please be more proactive, you're the only player who we can all trust to not be deceiving us. I get that you might want to be a bit secretive, but a scumread or two would be nice.

pedit: Sounds about right.
@NS: Well, if you don't have scumreads, then I'm forced to ask you for your townreads. What townreads do you have?

[Alduskkel]

I posted 1 minute after NS yet somehow he didn't deign to respond to me (either that or he took a random 20 minute break...)

[Alduskkel]

@Jake: I still think MafiaSSK is scum for exactly the same reasons as before.

However, Espeonage's case on baldeagle is interesting. I haven't had time to analyze it in-depth, though. (And there's a decent chance I won't have time until sometime tomorrow.)

@NS: When are you going to vote for someone?

[Alduskkel]

Mac, your defense of NS is noted. By which I mean if NS flips scum then you're going to look way scummier.

meh. i could've told you that. it's happened to me before, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. why did you bring this up?

what's your issue with townhunting on d1?

I bring it up partly to let other players know what I'm thinking but actually mostly just so that it's in my iso when I go back on later days to remember what I was thinking. Otherwise I might forget.

Townhunting D1 just seems so much more difficult than scumhunting to me. You need to be townreading over 50% of the playerlist for it to even start to work, instead of getting just 1 scumread. Right now I'm willing to allow NS some time to prove himself because he has 4 townreads which is a decent start.

It's worth noting that I fully support townhunting in lylo situations, though. PoE gets a lot easier then.

---

Anyway I'm going to put down baldeagle as town because I like his scumreads (MafiaSSK and PrivateI) and I have reasonable trust in DGB. That said, baldeagle, get back on the MafiaSSK wagon. Strength in numbers and all that.

[Alduskkel]

@Landmind: How can you feel so confident that a MafiaSSK lynch will just sort of happen today? It doesn't feel like that to me.

I don't see how Espeonage is scum.

[Alduskkel]

Espeonage, what do you think of Landmind's switch to you?

[Alduskkel]

@landmind I wouldn't say I spontaneously stopped. Unfortunately I can't really explain why I stopped but let's just say I didn't want this game to drag for 30+ pages only to see someone else lynched. I can keep tunneling NS and annoy everyone or I can start reading everyone else. I felt the latter was better for the game.

lol Jake

let's exchange a meaningful glance

[Alduskkel]

oh no people are voting me better post a list of reads
-DrDolittle

[Alduskkel]

voting me for lack of content*

[Alduskkel]

Vote: DrDolittle

probably would have stuck with the MafiaSSK vote since baldeagle just got back on that wagon (which I support him doing) but I just realized that DrDolittle is also on that wagon so I'm going to take a shot at his.

[Alduskkel]

This is bordering into too scummy to be scum but I will hold fast and keep my vote.

pedit: Great, I can tack OMGUS and trying to please people onto your case.

[Alduskkel]

post 330: "tell me how I can look town please"

[Alduskkel]

Are you high again?

[Alduskkel]

great work mr. confirmed town

[Alduskkel]

I don't think that vote count is correct. Isn't baldeagle voting MafiaSSK?

[Alduskkel]

Read the last half of MafiaSSK's iso and tell me that he's being pro-town.

[Alduskkel]

I didn't say MafiaSSK was only anti-town, not scummy.

MafiaSSK hasn't scumhunted, and shows no genuine inclination towards actually doing so. There's clear scum motivation to that.

[Alduskkel]

Landmind, despite calling MafiaSSK "lynchbait" you still seem to have a scumread on him. How strong is this scumread, and would you be willing to lynch him today? How about DrDolittle?

[Alduskkel]

Well, you can scan my iso for mentions of MafiaSSK and DrDolittle, and you can also scan Jake's iso about DrDolittle as well.

Espeonage, I don't see the case on. PI is sort of scummy in his own right but I'd rather see at least one of SSK and dolittle flip first.

[Alduskkel]

V/LA until Thursday.

[Alduskkel]

Right, I've been sick for the past two days but with any luck I'll be doing better. Also the site being down didn't help either.

Looking forward to scumreads from morph.

Current plan is to iso DGB.

Jake, give me your opinion on post 525.

[Alduskkel]

Hey, what the heck happened to the dolittle wagon?

[Alduskkel]

Well, I iso'd DGB. It's not worth much, but the wagon on her seems unjustified.

1. You pointed out quite explicitly that if SSK is scum, Ald is where we should go. I challenged that view. Oh look who opened this discussion you're refusing to acknowledge.

Espeonage, you indicate that you "challenged" DGB on this. Where did you do this?

---

Vote: MafiaSSK

. Larger wagon, still scummy. Recent posts are just appealing to his meta.

[Alduskkel]

Why should I vote DGB rather than dolittle or SSK?

[Alduskkel]

The longer we draw out anyone's flip the more info we get. I don't see how DGB is any more toxic than SSK or dolittle.

If anything I think the most information will be from an SSK flip. Lots of interesting interactions there.

[Alduskkel]

Why's DGB scummy again?

[Alduskkel]

That's a really shitty case. The only thing that goodnight says in that post is basically "AtE." Your 2 and 3 aren't scummy. 1 you just call weird. Self-voting is what it is. Avoidance? Sure, that's scummy, but is it enough? No.

[Alduskkel]

Well that's not really a good description of either case but I'm too lazy right this second to say anything other than:

dolittle lurks, doesn't scumhunt, and has basically trolled to get rid of his own wagon.
SSK lurks, doesn't scumhunt, and is trying to coast on meta.

There's other stuff, especially on dolittle, but you know -- too lazy right this second.

[Alduskkel]

I think MafiaSSK wants a hammer for Christmas. ====[]

[Alduskkel]

I kind of hate Esp's recent posts. Might be too scummy to be scum, but I don't know Esp's scum game so...?

[Alduskkel]

See, the problem is that with SSK and dolittle both flipping town, I have to reevaluate my reads which basically means isoing everyone.

[Alduskkel]

Okay, I actually missed the part where the GF's abilities refresh if they're killed. I guess we're trying to lynch the GF last, then? Fair enough, although I don't like to play "guess which scum is the scum GF" since lynching scum is still lynching scum. Even if DGB were the GF, eliminating her would still give us information and remove a scum vote from play.

That said, I don't think DGB is scum, and she raises an interesting point about Landmind, although I'd like to think lying about real life stuff (well, if you consider hydrameetings real life stuff) would be off limits. It's not voteworthy in an of itself, but I'll consider it when I get to isoing Landmind (which is probably an iso I'll skim TBH).

[Alduskkel]

Remind me to comment on post 781 after a certain thing has happened.

[Alduskkel]

One of Landmind and Espeonage is scum. Possibly both, definitely not neither unless I'm bad at scumhunting.

Now, what I wanted to say about 781 (the "certain thing" I was waiting for was Landmind posting) is that I think it is a misrepresentation. Namely the text that I have bolded here:

Ok, let me phrase it differently. Are you not seeing a disparity between normally dense language and deliberate careful wording to avoid being cased by iso? If not, would you kindly point out how the slot is being a helpful contributor to the town, with two heads and

numerous people asking for a change in posting style that has been ignored.

Landmind DID change their posting style. It was extremely annoying in the early game, with all that vaguely horror nonsense, whereas now it's just straightforward moderately sized walls. (Also, banana.)

Now, I'd think Espeonage was scum on this one except Landmind is basically flooding with excuses. Jake's post 772 makes a lot of sense, though, except for the part where he says I might be scum. (Hey, we can't all be perfect.)

My current inclination is to vote Espeonage over Landmind.

[Alduskkel]

Interesting that you mention Ald. He had a very hard push on mssk and has been quite against you
He was who I was going to look at after you flip scum. DW tho ald your fine for now until land flips.

It's damning. And if it was faked you did a terrible job. Both alternatives have you flipping scum.

"Don't worry"? In your scenario, Town ends up in lylo: either Landmind is Town, or Landmind is Mafia and then you mislynch me.

Mac kill makes sense in so far as it would have pretty much secured Dolittle for a quick lynch

And I could just as well say the reverse: that keeping Mac alive would have secured Dolittle for a quick lynch. You really think that the Dolittle case needed NK analysis? What's more valuable, Mac's vote or just one more bullet point to stick onto a Dolittle case? Your analysis is nonsense.

[Alduskkel]

Vote: Espeonage

[Alduskkel]

Why is Espeonage Town? Serious question.

[Alduskkel]

I am becoming increasingly convinced that both Espeonage AND Landmind are scum.

[Alduskkel]

It's my impression that the PI case is overblown. Feel free to disprove me, but I don't recall ever seeing any case on him that really looked good.

[Alduskkel]

Hey Ald, what do you think of the esp vote on PI?

Survivalist scum.

[Alduskkel]

You think it does? I don't think it does.

[Alduskkel]

You better be lying. If you have any ounce of pro-Town in you, be scum dammit.

[Alduskkel]

Is Espeonage considered alive right now or not?

In fairness, I don't allow lynchees to talk during twilight either.

[Alduskkel]

Hey, what the heck? They killed DGB? I was still thinking in the back of my mind that DGB was quite possibly scum, so... thanks for getting rid of her then.

Now I'm going to go out on a bit of a limb here and call Jake and NS town. That means there are 3 scum in only {Landmind, PrivateI, baldeagle, goodnight}.

morph, got any useful information for us?

[Alduskkel]

I'm a little suspicious of the fact that I am suddenly on everyone's scum list today despite appearing only once yesterday (on Jake's list).

[Alduskkel]

You know I was already suspecting you and goodnight, right? I was going to be more suspicious of Jake but then I realized he actually is carrying his read over from Day 2 so that makes sense.

Great to see that you'll snap up any point you can find against me.

fwiw, I have you as a townread but your entrance into today reeked.

Because ___?

[Alduskkel]

There's a difference between "finding every little thing possible to get a mislynch and "actually scumhunting."

[Alduskkel]

It felt forced.

And why's that?

[Alduskkel]

The first sentence gives me congratulating-the-doc feels.

The last sentence just sounds off.

I don't know what to tell you man.

[Alduskkel]

If you think about who's probably scum then it makes sense for people to suddenly start suspecting me; I'm a good candidate for the final mislynch.

[Alduskkel]

I don't even know what to say about this new gimmick.

[Alduskkel]

I think Ald's overstating the level of support for his lynch

He says in the same post where he declares support for my lynch.

Also, I think his "it is advantageous for the scum to say they think I'm scum" defense is at least one of hollow/arrogant/desperate the way he's presented it now.

Not sure what you're saying here.

He seems a lot more surprised by DGB's death than the Mac NK, and if you ask me the Mac NK was a lot harder to explain. Right now he reads like he was actually surprised by something this time around (hence the congratulating-the-doctor vibe NS pointed out): which to me suggests that we had a nexus and it messed with the kill. It doesn't help that his first thought is 'any words, Morph?'

You think we had a nexus? If morph chose to pass out nexus then we'll be having words post game. Watch and Track seem so much more useful for us.

If your accusations are more than just baseless I suggest you share them with the class.

But perhaps if you were actually reading our posts you would realize we've been having some discussions about you.

-Good

I don't actually know why you think I'm scum. The hydra dissonance on your read on me doesn't help at all either.

[Alduskkel]

Your sample size is way too small, Jake.

Goodnight, you can make that case, but I don't want to see the other head saying it's terrible or else I won't take it seriously. Try and reconcile the two reads somehow. If you both think I'm scum, fine, but I don't want to argue with a hydra where half really thinks I'm town and half really thinks I'm mafia.

morph, you can put me down for baldeagle, Landmind, and PrivateI (that's roughly in order from strongest to weakest).

[Alduskkel]

Exactly what are you basing your apparent meta read of me off of? Because I don't think it's accurate.

[Alduskkel]

In particular, I think you are failing to account for the frequency with which I come under suspicion or am lynched. Additionally, you're also forgetting that I am a paranoid player, so coming up with a "conspiracy theory" like this isn't unusual.

[Alduskkel]

@Mod: Please prod morph, baldeagle, and notscience.

[Alduskkel]

@Mod: Please, no prod dodging.

[Alduskkel]

Don't post solely to avoid being replaced.

[Alduskkel]

Yeah, but if you don't post content I'll harass the mod to replace you (that goes for everyone in fact).

[Alduskkel]

You should either be "delivering Christmas early" or pressuring people into doing whatever you want them to do before you "deliver Christmas early."

[Alduskkel]

You should either be "delivering Christmas early" or pressuring people into doing whatever you want them to do before you "deliver Christmas early."

You can wait, I don't intend to tell you who to bus until my ISO-ing is done.

I don't even bus though.

I'm only 25% joking.

[Alduskkel]

You have to be posting literally zero content for me to ask the mod to replace you.

PI is low content, not no content.

[Alduskkel]

Yeah, how dare a Town Alduskkel be upset with the activity levels of this game.

[Alduskkel]

morph you need to inject some life into this game.

Right now I'm a bit worried that we're all off base because no one's panicking too much so that sort of implies that scum are content with the state of the game.

[Alduskkel]

I'm not trying to towntell you ding dong. I'm legitimately annoyed.

[Alduskkel]

Yes.

[Alduskkel]

Landmind is so fucking scummy it's not even funny. I am like 80% sure that Mastin is in the hydra and Mastin's scum game, as I recall it, is not very good, so I'm not going to second guess myself with "too scummy to be scum on this one."

When I said that people were subtly getting together to mislynch me Landmind tried to shoot me down on this; now Landmind is claiming that if he wanted to mislynch me then it would be easy.

I did not "go out of my way" to make Nexus seem like a weird possibility, it was just legitimately something I hadn't thought was worth considering because informative abilities like Track and Watch just seemed better (Watchers in particular are known to be quite powerful).

Landmind mentioning Nexus just seems telling to me when you realize that it's obvious he is not a neighbor -- the only other way to know would be if your kill didn't land on the correct target.

I'm in a far harder position now when I know there are at least two players in this game who would not vote scum!Ald ever, no matter what. (For the record, he's intentionally playing dumb.)

I'm playing dumb huh? That makes a lot of sense.

I trust NS, and more importantly Landmind is obvscum. Let's just do this already.

Vote: Landmind

.

[Alduskkel]

If the nightkill was indeed redirected off of goodnight (which seems to be the clear conclusion at this point) then that clears goodnight, and if Jake can further reasonably be expected to be town (as I think is the case) then the scumteam is

clearly

Landmind, PI, and baldeagle.

[Alduskkel]

Landmind. Dude is obvscum.

After that baldeagle.

Then we double check PI's play and probably confirm that yes, PI is scum.

[Alduskkel]

Scum have daytalk. If NS and Landmind are both Town then the game is lost. I assume that you agree that NS is Town, which means that either Landmind is scum or scum are about to win.

The answer is obvious.

[Alduskkel]

Shit, Jakescum just won Mini 1521 and I was townreading him. That's scary.

Landmind is still obvscum though.

[Alduskkel]

Cabd, are you willing to tell me your read on Jake?

[Alduskkel]

I'm probably leaning towards ald's being scum just cause his play isn't what I would expect from him.

Jake, what did you mean by this yesterday? What would you expect from town-Ald?

meaning my experience with him as town doesn't match his play this game

Yo Jake, I assumed you were talking about Mini 1521 here. Now that that's over, are you able to elaborate on this?

[Alduskkel]

morph, are you sure goodnight is town? Or are we about to lose or something? Should I unvote?

[Alduskkel]

Unvote

.

[Alduskkel]

Am I talking to the fferyl head right now?

[Alduskkel]

Do you want me to break out the self-meta and show you why my effort level in a game has no bearing on my alignment? I can basically show you anything from "Alduskkel was in the top 3 posters" to "Alduskkel replaced out/should have been replaced" as either alignment.

[Alduskkel]

That's up to Jake.

[Alduskkel]

Mastin, Mastin copycat... it makes no difference to me, really.

If you were really town you'd be trying harder.

[Alduskkel]

Well given Landmind's activity level you'll have to wait 2 days to find out if they really meant 1043.

[Alduskkel]

Vote: Landmind

[Alduskkel]

Unvote

?

[Alduskkel]

Oh, did Town lose? I gotta say, if I were the treestump I would have played this a lot differently.

I'm not 100% sure on who's scum so I'll wait to see how badly we failed. I am disappointed that Landmind is town, though.

[Alduskkel]

Hey, who the fuck was scum?

[Alduskkel]

Jake, stop being good at scum.

[Alduskkel]

Such BS.

[Alduskkel]

You just won two scumgames in a row and you're "horrible at scum."

[Alduskkel]

Yeah, gg. I'm interested to see what the night actions were.

Pretty good scumteam overall, don't think I ever really suspected any of you very strongly.

Still, I'm not entirely sure how I was supposed to not scumread SSK and Landmind though, or even dolittle, PrivateI, and DGB. Lots of scummy townies this game (not to say that it's not at least partly my fault for not figuring it out).

[Alduskkel]

Difficult to say if it's better to hold your cards close or play town leader style.

I think this setup could use 1-2 more VTs, though.

[Alduskkel]

I would pay good money to see that.

[Alduskkel]

You know what'd be cool? Two town neighborizers. (This mandates adding at least two more VTs though.)

[Alduskkel]

I think we have the scumteam by the balls, so it shouldn't matter.

We have town by the balls.

lol

My overall take:
Was the setup scumsided? Yes.
Did some fairly random circumstances (regarding the neighbor choices) conspire to hurt the Town even more? Yes.
Did the scumteam still completely outplay the Town? Yes.